0:00:10 > 0:00:12Well, it might be hard to believe
0:00:12 > 0:00:14but in a few years' time,
0:00:14 > 0:00:17there will be a brand-new church right here.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20It's one of the ways people are rethinking what Church is about
0:00:20 > 0:00:23and how it will look in the future.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26Well... I'd better get on with it!
0:00:29 > 0:00:33So, this week, as we look at some of the ways Church is changing,
0:00:33 > 0:00:36there's a virtual congregation,
0:00:36 > 0:00:37a very messy church
0:00:37 > 0:00:39and a tweeting nun,
0:00:39 > 0:00:41with music across the country.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57This inspired project is just one of a variety of ways
0:00:57 > 0:00:59the church is reinventing itself,
0:00:59 > 0:01:03and we'll hear more about the plans here later.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06One man who takes a keen interest in how the Church is evolving
0:01:06 > 0:01:08is Reverend Dr Michael Moynagh.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11He is Research Director for Fresh Expressions,
0:01:11 > 0:01:13an organisation that supports people
0:01:13 > 0:01:17who are exploring new ways of doing Church.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20Michael, what's the state of the Church today?
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Well, it's a mixed picture.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Some of it is brilliant. There are areas of growth.
0:01:25 > 0:01:29But overall, I think everyone knows that numbers have been declining.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31Each generation is less religious,
0:01:31 > 0:01:34less committed to Church than the generation before,
0:01:34 > 0:01:37and you can track that back over a number of generations.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41- Why do you think that's happening? - There's a great debate about this.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Some people think, "It's happening because society's changed
0:01:44 > 0:01:47"and there's no need for Church.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49"It's passe, it's had its day."
0:01:49 > 0:01:54People aren't particularly interested in faith and organised faith any more.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58And then there are other people who are saying, "Well, it's not quite like that.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00"The problem is that the Church hasn't adapted."
0:02:00 > 0:02:05So society has changed but Church hasn't changed enough
0:02:05 > 0:02:09in order to connect with people in the new cultures that we experience.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12And my hunch is it's more the latter.
0:02:12 > 0:02:17That Church has failed to adapt but it's now beginning to do so.
0:02:17 > 0:02:18And it's really exciting.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21So what are the new, exciting things that are happening?
0:02:21 > 0:02:24What's happening is that bubbling up,
0:02:24 > 0:02:26ground upwards,
0:02:26 > 0:02:31are all sorts of new forms of Christian community that are emerging.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35And this is a really interesting, significant
0:02:35 > 0:02:37and growing movement.
0:02:37 > 0:02:40When I started researching this ten, 12 years ago,
0:02:40 > 0:02:43you could find a handful of examples.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45Now there are hundreds of examples,
0:02:45 > 0:02:48and many of these examples are, as it were, under the radar,
0:02:48 > 0:02:53but a whole variety of different expressions of Christian community
0:02:53 > 0:02:57that are living the Christian faith, expressing the Gospel,
0:02:57 > 0:03:01trying to serve their wider communities in different ways
0:03:01 > 0:03:05but are being Church in ways that are very different to the past.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23The internet has become a part of everyday life,
0:05:23 > 0:05:25from shopping to keeping in touch.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29But it's not necessarily the first place you'd expect to find a nun.
0:05:29 > 0:05:33So, Sister Elizabeth, what in the world
0:05:33 > 0:05:35inspired you to start tweeting?
0:05:35 > 0:05:38The one reason we started tweeting was because
0:05:38 > 0:05:40that's where people are today.
0:05:40 > 0:05:43That's where they're having their conversations, are on Twitter.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45Millions of people having conversations
0:05:45 > 0:05:48from all different backgrounds all over the world.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50God wants to be where people are.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53We're messengers of God, we're His representatives in the world,
0:05:53 > 0:05:56so we need to bring Him into where people are,
0:05:56 > 0:05:58and so that's why we started tweeting.
0:05:58 > 0:06:03Can you describe or explain what tweeting is?
0:06:03 > 0:06:05Tweeting is...
0:06:05 > 0:06:08For example, we have a noticeboard
0:06:08 > 0:06:12where people would put notices up, Post-it notes, and things like this,
0:06:12 > 0:06:14of messages, things for people to read.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18Twitter is like an electronic form of that,
0:06:18 > 0:06:21so you've got your noticeboard on the computer
0:06:21 > 0:06:25and I come along with a Post-it note every other minute or every other day,
0:06:25 > 0:06:27depending how often I'm tweeting,
0:06:27 > 0:06:30and stick it on the site for someone to read.
0:06:30 > 0:06:32So what do you tweet about?
0:06:32 > 0:06:35We tweet about anything and everything to do with life,
0:06:35 > 0:06:38with God. God is life.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41He's involved in the everyday and wants to be involved in the everyday,
0:06:41 > 0:06:43involved in people's lives.
0:06:43 > 0:06:47We try not to make it too churchy or preachy
0:06:47 > 0:06:51because at the end of the day, that's possibly not where people are
0:06:51 > 0:06:55in the everyday. So we try and make it
0:06:55 > 0:06:59almost like some kind of magazine or consumer-type approach, really, to it.
0:06:59 > 0:07:00And so anything and everything.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04Look at the tweets and you'll see that it covers and so many subjects.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11Is Twitter a dangerous place for a nun to be?
0:07:11 > 0:07:14No, no worries about that kind of thing at all.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17We have received tweets from people who do want to shock us
0:07:17 > 0:07:20featuring bad language,
0:07:20 > 0:07:23things that are suggestive.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27We simply reply, thinking, "Well, God loves that person.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29"Regardless of what they're saying,
0:07:29 > 0:07:32"they've actually made contact with us, which is good."
0:07:32 > 0:07:37Whether that's quite abusive or whether that's kind doesn't really matter.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42And we welcome their view on things because sometimes they make us think.
0:07:42 > 0:07:43People who liked to shock...
0:07:43 > 0:07:48Actually, sometimes they do make us think and bring us out of our comfort zone,
0:07:48 > 0:07:52and so that has to be a good thing. The Church needs more of that, I think.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54How is all this affecting you personally?
0:07:54 > 0:07:57It's affected me greatly.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01It's made me look at the world...
0:08:01 > 0:08:02a little bit differently.
0:08:02 > 0:08:06It's made me more, I think, compassionate,
0:08:06 > 0:08:08more understanding of people.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11Because we're more in touch with people,
0:08:11 > 0:08:15whether they're Christian or not, whether they're people of faith or not, that doesn't matter.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18People are on Twitter, people are on Facebook.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21As a Church, we do need to embrace it simply because that's the case.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24That's where people are having conversations.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28That's where God wants to be, and at the end of the day, Jesus would be on Twitter!
0:08:28 > 0:08:31He'd be on Facebook. He'd be engaging with people where they are!
0:08:31 > 0:08:36So if it's good enough for him, that's what we should be doing as well!
0:08:43 > 0:08:48# And can it be that I should gain
0:08:48 > 0:08:51# An interest in
0:08:51 > 0:08:55# The saviour's blood?
0:08:56 > 0:09:01# Died He for me who caused his pain
0:09:01 > 0:09:06# For me who Him to death pursued?
0:09:06 > 0:09:10# Amazing love
0:09:10 > 0:09:13# How can it be?
0:09:13 > 0:09:19# That Thou my God should die for me?
0:09:19 > 0:09:22# Amazing love
0:09:22 > 0:09:26# How can it be?
0:09:26 > 0:09:31# That Thou my God should die for me?
0:09:33 > 0:09:38# He left His father's throne above
0:09:38 > 0:09:45# So free, so infinite His grace
0:09:46 > 0:09:51# Emptied Himself of all but love
0:09:51 > 0:09:57# And bled for Adam's helpless race
0:09:57 > 0:10:00# Tis mercy all
0:10:00 > 0:10:03# Immense and free
0:10:03 > 0:10:10# For O my God, it found out me
0:10:10 > 0:10:13# Tis mercy all
0:10:13 > 0:10:16# Immense and free
0:10:16 > 0:10:22# For O my God, it found out me
0:10:25 > 0:10:29# Yeah, ye-eah
0:10:37 > 0:10:42# Long my imprisoned spirit lay
0:10:42 > 0:10:45# Fast bound in sin
0:10:45 > 0:10:48# And nature's night
0:10:50 > 0:10:54# Thine eye diffused a quickening ray
0:10:54 > 0:11:00# I woke, the dungeon flamed with light
0:11:00 > 0:11:03# My chains fell off
0:11:03 > 0:11:07# My heart was free
0:11:07 > 0:11:13# I rose, went forth and followed Thee
0:11:13 > 0:11:17# My chains fell off
0:11:17 > 0:11:19# My heart was free
0:11:19 > 0:11:25# And I rose, went forth and followed Thee
0:11:27 > 0:11:29# Ye-e-eah
0:11:29 > 0:11:32# Yeah, yeah-yeah, yeah-yeah
0:11:37 > 0:11:41# No condemnation now I dread
0:11:41 > 0:11:48# For Jesus and all in Him is mine
0:11:50 > 0:11:54# Alive in Him, my living Head
0:11:54 > 0:12:00# And clothed with righteousness divine
0:12:00 > 0:12:03# Bold, I approach
0:12:03 > 0:12:07# The eternal throne
0:12:07 > 0:12:13# And claim the crown through Christ, my own
0:12:13 > 0:12:16# Bold, I approach
0:12:16 > 0:12:19# The eternal throne
0:12:19 > 0:12:26# And claim that crown through Christ, my own
0:12:26 > 0:12:29# Amazing love
0:12:29 > 0:12:32# How can it be
0:12:32 > 0:12:38# That Thou my God would die for me? #
0:12:51 > 0:12:55Twitter isn't the only way the Church is embracing new technology.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58There are now virtual churches.
0:12:58 > 0:13:03I-church is an online church and it's run by the Diocese of Oxford.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06We hold services in our chatroom
0:13:06 > 0:13:09and we do that on a Wednesday evening.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12We've found by trial and error that people don't tend to want
0:13:12 > 0:13:15to use it on a Sunday as much so we do have a short service on a Sunday
0:13:15 > 0:13:19but the main one is on a Wednesday evening British time.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21And people log in to the chatroom
0:13:21 > 0:13:25and then the leader will type the prayers or whatever,
0:13:25 > 0:13:29and if it's a joining-in prayer, you type the responses.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32And we also will think to YouTubes which we can show in the chatroom,
0:13:32 > 0:13:37or we'll bring in other material we want to share by putting a link in.
0:13:37 > 0:13:41So it's quite interactive. It's very, very interactive.
0:13:41 > 0:13:47As the church is a virtual, the congregation come from far and wide.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51We have people, quite a few in England. We have people from America.
0:13:51 > 0:13:56We have a pastor in America who's been part of our church from the very beginning.
0:13:56 > 0:13:59We've got somebody right up in the north of Scotland
0:13:59 > 0:14:02who can't get to local Church very easily
0:14:02 > 0:14:05and so they find it very useful to come to prayers with other people.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09We've got one member who's in a very, very quiet rural area
0:14:09 > 0:14:12and wants to go to their local church
0:14:12 > 0:14:16but doesn't find there's the range of activities, like Bible studies and things,
0:14:16 > 0:14:20and so she finds that by coming with i-Church as well,
0:14:20 > 0:14:22she can kind of add to her Christian experience
0:14:22 > 0:14:26so she's still able to be a member of her local church, which is very, very important to her.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30So I would hope that people will look at i-Church
0:14:30 > 0:14:31and other online communities
0:14:31 > 0:14:35and say not, "Oh, dear, this is something we have to fight
0:14:35 > 0:14:39"because it's competing with real Church."
0:14:39 > 0:14:43I would hope that people are able to look at it as something God's doing for the church
0:14:43 > 0:14:47and that they can benefit from and learn from.
0:17:16 > 0:17:20Another example of how the church is connecting with people
0:17:20 > 0:17:22in new ways is Messy Church.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26It's the brainchild of Lucy Moore.
0:17:26 > 0:17:31Messy Church as a way of doing church for families,
0:17:31 > 0:17:35and invites families to come together to church
0:17:35 > 0:17:38and have a great time for two hours, usually.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45The format is usually a warm welcome
0:17:45 > 0:17:47and then about an hour
0:17:47 > 0:17:50of having fun together, making stuff
0:17:50 > 0:17:52that explores the Bible's story.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55And then we bring it all together in a quarter of an hour celebration
0:17:55 > 0:17:57with stories, song, and prayer, and then we have
0:17:57 > 0:17:59a sit-down meal together.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01With Messy Church,
0:18:01 > 0:18:03one of the things was let's make it easy for people.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05Let's have it at a time which suits them,
0:18:05 > 0:18:08let's do it in a way that suits them,
0:18:08 > 0:18:10and see where that takes us.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13THEY SING AND CLAP
0:18:13 > 0:18:17In a short space of time, Messy Church has gone global.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20There are now 1,400 worldwide.
0:18:20 > 0:18:26The whole Messy Church network is fed from a lot of different backgrounds.
0:18:26 > 0:18:31So it's not just something that is fed from a suburban church
0:18:31 > 0:18:32just outside Portsmouth.
0:18:32 > 0:18:38It's getting ideas and attitudes and inspiration from, you know,
0:18:38 > 0:18:40churches in Melbourne
0:18:40 > 0:18:44and churches in Wellington in New Zealand.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47The Danish church has taken it on hugely.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50All these ideas and understandings of God
0:18:50 > 0:18:53feed in, to make it a very rich mix.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56And why is it called Messy Church?
0:18:56 > 0:18:58Because I think God works with people in a messy way.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02That we sometimes have the feeling that
0:19:02 > 0:19:05it's got to be cut and dried and neat and tidy,
0:19:05 > 0:19:07and we have to have all the answers sorted
0:19:07 > 0:19:09before we come anywhere near him.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12And for most of us, it's a much messier journey.
0:19:12 > 0:19:13We come near him
0:19:13 > 0:19:15and then we go further away,
0:19:15 > 0:19:17and we have questions and doubts
0:19:17 > 0:19:20and we also lead very messy lives.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24And perhaps the Church in the past has projected a little bit too much
0:19:24 > 0:19:26that you have to be neat and tidy
0:19:26 > 0:19:28and put on your best clothes to come to church.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31And what we're trying to say to everybody is,
0:19:31 > 0:19:33"Look, however messy your life is, you can come.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36"You can come and be messy with us, because we're messy too."
0:19:46 > 0:19:50# God sees you
0:19:51 > 0:19:54# He knows where you are
0:19:54 > 0:20:00# You are not forgotten, no
0:20:00 > 0:20:04# God knows you
0:20:04 > 0:20:08# He chose you
0:20:08 > 0:20:12# You're spoken of in heaven
0:20:15 > 0:20:18# Only God
0:20:18 > 0:20:25# Only God can see
0:20:25 > 0:20:29# Inside every human heart
0:20:29 > 0:20:32# Only God
0:20:32 > 0:20:37# Really knows you
0:20:41 > 0:20:45# God made you
0:20:46 > 0:20:48# He loves you as you are
0:20:48 > 0:20:55# You are not just a face in a crowd
0:20:55 > 0:20:58# God hears you
0:21:00 > 0:21:02# He's near you
0:21:02 > 0:21:08# And he's closer than you think
0:21:10 > 0:21:13# Only God
0:21:13 > 0:21:20# Only God can see
0:21:20 > 0:21:23# Inside every human heart
0:21:23 > 0:21:27# Only God
0:21:27 > 0:21:32# Really knows you
0:21:32 > 0:21:37# You, you, you, you
0:21:37 > 0:21:41# And only God
0:21:41 > 0:21:47# He truly understands
0:21:47 > 0:21:51# The issues of the heart
0:21:51 > 0:21:55# Only God
0:21:55 > 0:21:59# Only God
0:22:04 > 0:22:10# You are God's masterpiece
0:22:10 > 0:22:15# When will you realise
0:22:15 > 0:22:18# That it's true?
0:22:18 > 0:22:23# There is a God who cares
0:22:23 > 0:22:26# A God who loves
0:22:26 > 0:22:36# A God who sees
0:22:38 > 0:22:42# God hears you
0:22:42 > 0:22:45# He's near you
0:22:45 > 0:22:54# And he's closer than you think. #
0:23:00 > 0:23:03Today our daily bread. Our church has been inspired...
0:23:03 > 0:23:06'Reverend Frog Orr-Ewing is no stranger to Songs of Praise.
0:23:06 > 0:23:09'We last met him in Peckham,
0:23:09 > 0:23:13'where he turned a derelict church into a thriving congregation.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16'Not content with that challenge, he's now going a step further,
0:23:16 > 0:23:19'building a new church.'
0:23:19 > 0:23:21Well, Frog, we're here in the middle of Beaconsfield,
0:23:21 > 0:23:23in this beautiful shell.
0:23:23 > 0:23:25What's been happening?
0:23:25 > 0:23:27We left Peckham about two and a bit years ago,
0:23:27 > 0:23:30with the vision of planting a minster, a missionary community,
0:23:30 > 0:23:31and having some land
0:23:31 > 0:23:35and working a whole holistic thing for the next generation.
0:23:35 > 0:23:39On the practical side of it, its cost quite a lot of money,
0:23:39 > 0:23:42so I sold my house and I sold everything that I had.
0:23:42 > 0:23:46And a friend came alongside me and he did something similar.
0:23:46 > 0:23:48We really prayed and we sought God and asked for a lot of wisdom,
0:23:48 > 0:23:51and it's a whole new territory for me, really.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56OK, it's so exciting, I don't even know where to begin!
0:23:56 > 0:23:58What are you hoping to do exactly here?
0:23:58 > 0:24:00I've seen there's a lot of buildings.
0:24:00 > 0:24:01What are we standing in now,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04and what do you want this to be?
0:24:04 > 0:24:06Well, we're still developing that. Very early days.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08We've only been here for eight weeks.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10I'm casting an idea, I suppose.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13I would expect that there would be people doing training here.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16Some people living here, some people working the land.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18Other people meeting and praying here.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20I'd love to see 24/7 prayer
0:24:20 > 0:24:23and people praying and worshipping all the way through the week.
0:24:23 > 0:24:26So the idea is that it's a sacred hub.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28Why are you doing this?
0:24:28 > 0:24:32The ancient minsters were places where missionaries gathered,
0:24:32 > 0:24:35and from that place of worship, study, prayer
0:24:35 > 0:24:37and fellowship and hospitality,
0:24:37 > 0:24:40they then sent outliers to other places and other communities.
0:24:40 > 0:24:44And if that went well, a church was established in those places.
0:24:44 > 0:24:47So they did mission and churches were established out of that.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49So we're trying to go back, really, to an ancient model.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52To get excited about the future and make a difference
0:24:52 > 0:24:55so that 25 years from now, it looks very, very different.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58The situation in the British Church, than it does at the moment.
0:24:58 > 0:24:59And I think we're part of an answer.
0:25:07 > 0:25:08Now you and your wife,
0:25:08 > 0:25:12you've literally put everything on the line for this.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14Do you ever worry that it will fail?
0:25:14 > 0:25:16We've had some anxious moments,
0:25:16 > 0:25:19and some sleepless nights over the last couple of years.
0:25:19 > 0:25:20I think, though, that...
0:25:22 > 0:25:25..there's a lovely scripture about having come so far
0:25:25 > 0:25:26that He's not going to leave you,
0:25:26 > 0:25:28and He's going to see it through to the end.
0:25:28 > 0:25:31So I'm trusting in that element of things, really.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34That God has a perfect plan and I'm just doing my best to tune in
0:25:34 > 0:25:39and listen in and try to be as courageous and obedient as I can be.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41I'm totally aware that I don't have
0:25:41 > 0:25:44maybe necessarily the entire skill set necessary
0:25:44 > 0:25:45to take on a plan like this,
0:25:45 > 0:25:47but I'm trying to gather other people
0:25:47 > 0:25:49who can see other parts of the vision
0:25:49 > 0:25:52that they feel is a kind of life call for them,
0:25:52 > 0:25:54and to try to, you know, connect with those people,
0:25:54 > 0:25:56so that we can achieve these things together.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59We're going to bring this place back from the brink,
0:25:59 > 0:26:02and hopefully, it will serve people for generations to come.
0:26:02 > 0:26:03That's my plan.
0:28:07 > 0:28:10CHEERING
0:28:59 > 0:29:02CHEERING
0:29:07 > 0:29:10APPLAUSE AND CHEERING
0:29:20 > 0:29:23Lord, thank you for new ideas which inspire us
0:29:23 > 0:29:25to approach Church in different ways.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30Thank you for new technologies, which help us to reach people
0:29:30 > 0:29:32wherever they are.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37Thank you for the dreams that you give us
0:29:37 > 0:29:39and hope for the future.
0:29:39 > 0:29:40Amen.
0:29:44 > 0:29:47How can any of us know what Church will be like in the future?
0:29:47 > 0:29:50Which makes me wonder what our legacy will be
0:29:50 > 0:29:52for generations to come.
0:29:52 > 0:29:54And our final song reminds us
0:29:54 > 0:29:59that from the humble beginnings of just 12 loyal followers of Jesus,
0:29:59 > 0:30:03there are now billions of Christians over all the earth.
0:33:03 > 0:33:06APPLAUSE AND CHEERING
0:33:06 > 0:33:11Next week, Ann Widdecombe will be presenting the programme
0:33:11 > 0:33:15and she'll be exploring a very personal subject, the single life.
0:33:15 > 0:33:19Her guests will include Roy Castle's widow, Fiona,
0:33:19 > 0:33:21and Benedictine monk, Father Christopher Jameson.
0:33:21 > 0:33:22And of course, there'll be
0:33:22 > 0:33:25plenty of hymns and songs to suit the occasion.
0:33:41 > 0:33:45Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd