0:00:02 > 0:00:04SIMON MAYO: This is a record of what happens when
0:00:04 > 0:00:07you put a collection of BBC Radio 2 presenters in a room
0:00:07 > 0:00:11and ask them to talk about their life and times in radio.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14With more than two centuries of experience between us,
0:00:14 > 0:00:17spanning seven decades, the only problem was getting us to stop.
0:00:17 > 0:00:22This is Mr Ken Bruce. He's been with Radio 2 since 1982
0:00:22 > 0:00:25and is a connoisseur of the best in popular music.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28You'll know Claudia Winkleman, of course, from the telly but
0:00:28 > 0:00:32she's also the presenter of the Arts Show every Friday night on Radio 2.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34Bob Harris joins us as well, it's Whispering Bob of course.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37Music connoisseur and our resident expert
0:00:37 > 0:00:39on pretty much anything that twangs.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43This is Jo Whiley, host of our weekday evenings unmissable show
0:00:43 > 0:00:46and purveyor of all the live music you could possibly want.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49And we couldn't do it without Tony Blackburn, radio veteran,
0:00:49 > 0:00:54Pick Of The Pops host, and nearly 50 years ago, radio pirate.
0:00:54 > 0:00:55And I'm Simon Mayo.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58you'd think I might just have smiled a little, wouldn't you?
0:00:59 > 0:01:01With the six of us all duly gathered together,
0:01:01 > 0:01:03it seems sensible to start at the beginning.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06What made us all want to work in radio?
0:01:06 > 0:01:09I used to listen to Journey Into Space on Radio Luxembourg
0:01:09 > 0:01:12and things like that and put the radio on
0:01:12 > 0:01:14and the valves would light up in those days
0:01:14 > 0:01:16and you had to wait for it to come on.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18I just thought it was magical.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20I thought I'd quite like to be inside that box!
0:01:20 > 0:01:22SIMON: With the glowing valves!
0:01:22 > 0:01:24Well, with the glowing valves, yes.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28My mum and dad used to have a sort of a record player radio...
0:01:28 > 0:01:29That's right.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33A big sort of radiogram thing in the corner of the room.
0:01:33 > 0:01:38It had the big dials and it's exactly as you say, Tony, it did, it glowed.
0:01:38 > 0:01:41I always thought that was my first sort of feeling from it,
0:01:41 > 0:01:43when I was probably about four or five,
0:01:43 > 0:01:46listening to Listen With Mother - with my mother -
0:01:46 > 0:01:50and it just represented warmth and happiness.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54Yes. So that was my first sort of feeling about the radio.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58They always used to say radio was showbusiness for ugly people,
0:01:58 > 0:02:00so that's what I...
0:02:00 > 0:02:01I thought that was politics!
0:02:01 > 0:02:03THEY ALL LAUGH
0:02:03 > 0:02:07But I, like Bob and like Tony, just listened to,
0:02:07 > 0:02:10heard something on the radio and thought, I could almost do that.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12I didn't have any particular talent
0:02:12 > 0:02:14but I thought I could sort of speak all right,
0:02:14 > 0:02:17and all I heard were the serious people, the announcers being funny
0:02:17 > 0:02:21on things like Beyond Our Ken and Round The Horne
0:02:21 > 0:02:23and on Take It From Here and I thought,
0:02:23 > 0:02:25"That sounds like a good job, that sounds like fun.
0:02:25 > 0:02:29"Let's have a go at that," but without any means of ever thinking
0:02:29 > 0:02:32I could do it. I don't know what made me think there was a possibility...
0:02:32 > 0:02:35That is the quantum leap, though, isn't it?
0:02:34 > 0:02:38Wanting to be on the radio and then how do you be on the radio? Yeah.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41I do remember radio at home much more than I remember television.
0:02:41 > 0:02:43It has just always been there,
0:02:43 > 0:02:46whether it was at my grandparents' house...
0:02:45 > 0:02:48My dad has always had a massive ghetto blaster.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50He used to work on a building site and I remember he used to
0:02:50 > 0:02:52walk around with this big ghetto blaster on his shoulder
0:02:52 > 0:02:55and he's only very little, but radio was always really, really important.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58I used to do that thing of listening to the top 40 and recording it
0:02:58 > 0:03:01and pressing record and its...
0:03:01 > 0:03:05I don't know, just always had this really deep love of radio.
0:03:05 > 0:03:09We used to have, as you had I think, one of those big record players
0:03:09 > 0:03:12and it had a radio and it had a turntable built in
0:03:12 > 0:03:14and I rigged up, it was a loudspeaker
0:03:14 > 0:03:17and I used to put it at the end of the hall
0:03:17 > 0:03:20and I used to actually do DJ programmes for my mum and dad.
0:03:20 > 0:03:21JO: Me too! Yeah. Yeah.
0:03:21 > 0:03:23TONY: You did that?
0:03:23 > 0:03:27I pretended to be, I pretended to be Simon Stephens, I changed my name
0:03:27 > 0:03:29because I thought my name was pathetic.
0:03:29 > 0:03:33My sister did jingles on a xylophone and I wrote out links
0:03:33 > 0:03:35and I put the records on and did the whole thing.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38I've still got the singles with the number with the running order.
0:03:38 > 0:03:39Do you think other people did that
0:03:39 > 0:03:42or is it just that we are quite peculiar and obsessive?
0:03:42 > 0:03:48I used to record the top 40 and then play them back and pretend to do...
0:03:48 > 0:03:51But from my world, I worked in telly beforehand
0:03:51 > 0:03:54but there is a feeling in telly where anybody can work in telly
0:03:54 > 0:03:57because literally all you have to do is paint yourself orange
0:03:57 > 0:04:01and read out loud but you had to be something really special
0:04:01 > 0:04:04to get into radio because radio, they hear your true self.
0:04:04 > 0:04:07You can't hide behind anything else
0:04:07 > 0:04:09so for me it was I was praying and then I got lucky.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13The one thing I loved about radio, I didn't want to be
0:04:13 > 0:04:15part of the whole, I didn't want to be part of showbiz,
0:04:15 > 0:04:18I didn't have that kind of thing of I just want to be an entertainer.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21Because I am quite shy I loved the fact that it's really intimate
0:04:21 > 0:04:23and no-one has to watch you. Television can be quite daunting
0:04:24 > 0:04:26but the fact it's just you and these people that you are speaking to
0:04:26 > 0:04:28and that's what I always got from radio.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31I remember being ill and when you're lying in bed and your mum is
0:04:31 > 0:04:32doing things around the house
0:04:32 > 0:04:35and listening to things like Pete Murray and to Jimmy Young
0:04:35 > 0:04:37and just being really comforted by those voices
0:04:37 > 0:04:42and them being kind of friends and that's what really appealed to me
0:04:42 > 0:04:43that I could just sit there and just...
0:04:43 > 0:04:45BOB: Did you have this thing, Jo,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48I mean when I started buying my first records,
0:04:48 > 0:04:50I got an incredible amount of pleasure
0:04:50 > 0:04:53playing those records to my friends.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56We used to have record hops as they were in those days, in the late '50s,
0:04:56 > 0:04:59playing the new Buddy Holly or Ricky Nelson and the Everly Brothers
0:04:59 > 0:05:02and all of that and sharing these new singles we'd bought
0:05:02 > 0:05:05and I still think now that what I'm doing is just a sort of slightly
0:05:06 > 0:05:10larger version of that and that the essence of just that
0:05:11 > 0:05:13and turning people on to music and communicating
0:05:13 > 0:05:17an enjoyment that you feel about this record you've just discovered.
0:05:16 > 0:05:18There's nothing quite like it, yeah.
0:05:18 > 0:05:20That's exactly it. No, it's really exciting,
0:05:20 > 0:05:22just having that two-way dialogue between people and
0:05:22 > 0:05:25being able to go, "I just heard this single and it's absolutely fantastic,
0:05:25 > 0:05:27"I hope you like it!" And then you put it on
0:05:27 > 0:05:29and then people nowadays can let you know instantly
0:05:29 > 0:05:31if they like it or they don't like it.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34That's what so lovely. Maybe at some point
0:05:34 > 0:05:37we might talk about it but the thing about Twitter and Facebook is
0:05:37 > 0:05:40that you know immediately whether...
0:05:40 > 0:05:42I do it less with music but more with chat on the Arts Show -
0:05:42 > 0:05:46if you're having a conversation with somebody, I did see that and I did...
0:05:46 > 0:05:48Whatever it is. It's just, you know. SIMON: Is that a good thing?
0:05:48 > 0:05:50- That's a great thing. - Is it?
0:05:50 > 0:05:52To know people's opinion straightaway?
0:05:52 > 0:05:53Yet, as long as it's positive!
0:05:53 > 0:05:56As long as it's, "Well done, Claudia, yes, very good question."
0:05:56 > 0:05:57I think it's fantastic.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00You do immediately get a reaction, don't you?
0:06:00 > 0:06:03I think Twitter and... Particularly Twitter, I think, is very exciting.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05SIMON: Here's the next question.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11How do you judge whether you've had a successful show?
0:06:13 > 0:06:16I don't think in terms of success or otherwise.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19I just do the show, and leave at the end of it
0:06:19 > 0:06:22because there'll be another one tomorrow. I think
0:06:22 > 0:06:25if you're doing a daily show, there is this kind of continuity to it,
0:06:25 > 0:06:28it's a long stream of activity
0:06:29 > 0:06:31over a whole year or years,
0:06:31 > 0:06:35and so I don't come off saying, "Oh, that was a really good show,"
0:06:35 > 0:06:36I just say, "That's another show done."
0:06:36 > 0:06:39Sometimes you get a feeling, don't you? Sometimes you just have
0:06:39 > 0:06:43a gut instinct of knowing that everything's flowed really well.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46I guess nowadays you get feedback and people telling you you're great
0:06:46 > 0:06:48so you're going, "I was great tonight."
0:06:48 > 0:06:50I think you just have an instinct of whether
0:06:50 > 0:06:52everything just kind of flows really well.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55The show you think is great was probably
0:06:55 > 0:06:57never as great as it was and the show you think was terrible
0:06:57 > 0:06:59was probably not as bad as you think it was.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01Am I right in thinking that you do the show
0:07:01 > 0:07:04and you just go and leave someone else to clear up the mess?
0:07:04 > 0:07:06Yes. Usually you, Tony. Yes.
0:07:06 > 0:07:09When I was starting out, I definitely would have judged
0:07:10 > 0:07:12a successful programme as to whether I did the voice-overs right.
0:07:12 > 0:07:14JO: What, hitting vocals?
0:07:14 > 0:07:16Yes, if there was a 27 second voice-over on this track,
0:07:17 > 0:07:20can I get up to 26? Yes, I did it. Great, that's a successful...
0:07:20 > 0:07:24That was... Of course, no listener cares about that and now,
0:07:24 > 0:07:29you realise that actually, you don't actually have to do that at all.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't,
0:07:31 > 0:07:35but that's how I would have judged a successful programme, I think.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39I will gauge it by how well me and the guest have clicked.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41So, when we had Luke Treadaway on
0:07:41 > 0:07:44and we got on brilliantly and he says, "Is it all right if I stay?"
0:07:44 > 0:07:46Oh! KEN: That's nice.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49And then if you have David Bailey on and he gets weird
0:07:49 > 0:07:51and starts pacing around the room and then just swears
0:07:51 > 0:07:54and sort of leaves, that's less good because it's my job to make them
0:07:54 > 0:07:57feel comfortable and try and get the most out of them
0:07:57 > 0:08:00so that's how I will gauge it just by those chats.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02Good interviews. If you have done a great interview
0:08:02 > 0:08:05or if someone has been really engaging then you just know it's
0:08:05 > 0:08:07gone well and then if you play some fantastic records,
0:08:07 > 0:08:10then that's when you know you've got a good show.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13Play the records that make the hairs on the back of your neck stand out,
0:08:13 > 0:08:16you think it must be doing the same, even if it isn't, you think it's
0:08:16 > 0:08:19doing the same for the audience. JO: You hope so. Yeah.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22JO: What about you, Simon? - A successful programme?
0:08:22 > 0:08:24You're not still trying to hit vocals?
0:08:24 > 0:08:26I'm not trying to hit the...
0:08:26 > 0:08:28Well, though sometimes it's quite nice...
0:08:28 > 0:08:30JO: Satisfying.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33Satisfying feeling, a complete mystery to everybody else.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37Crashing a vocal is terrible though, isn't it? You feel bad about that.
0:08:37 > 0:08:38You feel sick.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41I think also if there's an interview section that you're doing,
0:08:41 > 0:08:45if you've got a guest that's come in, there is enormous satisfaction to
0:08:45 > 0:08:48be had from the well-honed question. CLAUDIA: Yes.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51It doesn't matter really what the answer is but you just think,
0:08:51 > 0:08:55"That was exactly the right question to ask," and sometimes, you know,
0:08:55 > 0:08:59you have a very long and rambling question, a bit like this answer
0:08:59 > 0:09:03but it goes on a long time and I hate it when interviewers showing off
0:09:03 > 0:09:07how much information they have by putting it all in the question,
0:09:07 > 0:09:10whereas actually, someone like Larry King when he was on CNN,
0:09:10 > 0:09:12mastered the art of the short question.
0:09:12 > 0:09:14At Prime Minister's Questions, the most effective questions
0:09:14 > 0:09:17are always the short ones. It's always, "Well, why?"
0:09:17 > 0:09:19"How do you feel?" BOB: Absolutely.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21All of that kind of stuff but the well-honed question,
0:09:21 > 0:09:23there's a great satisfaction to be had from that..
0:09:23 > 0:09:27BOB: Do you find, Simon, I mean I do judge how well an interview is going
0:09:27 > 0:09:29by how much of me I'm hearing.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31The more of me I'm hearing,
0:09:31 > 0:09:33the less well I think the interview is going.
0:09:33 > 0:09:34CLAUDIA: Totally.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37If you're just nudging away and you got somebody talking,
0:09:37 > 0:09:39and it's a lot do with the interviewee
0:09:39 > 0:09:42and how willing they are to be communicative and all of that
0:09:42 > 0:09:46but as a rule of thumb I think the more of me I'm hearing,
0:09:46 > 0:09:48the less well this interview is going
0:09:48 > 0:09:52because then you're just nudging and you're opening up this lovely
0:09:52 > 0:09:56atmosphere within which your guest is beginning to feel comfortable and
0:09:56 > 0:10:00relaxed and beginning to feel happy to express themselves and open up.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02I try and explain to my kids that the key...
0:10:02 > 0:10:05One of my keys to life is basically just doing your homework.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08They really don't like that at 5.00pm on a Wednesday.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11I go, "You know the key." "Really? Are you sure it's not fish fingers?"
0:10:11 > 0:10:14And when I interview anybody,
0:10:14 > 0:10:16the more homework I've done,
0:10:16 > 0:10:18even though I don't want to read their third book
0:10:18 > 0:10:20because I read the first or whatever,
0:10:20 > 0:10:23because it's a Sunday night and I could be watching telly,
0:10:23 > 0:10:26they know immediately, they know when they walk in
0:10:26 > 0:10:29if you've absolutely done it and you're so self assured
0:10:29 > 0:10:31that you actually just sort of let them go, like you say,
0:10:31 > 0:10:32you go, "Tell everybody about it."
0:10:32 > 0:10:36You're not trying to show off, you're not going... And that's where...
0:10:36 > 0:10:38So if I really do my homework, that's when it goes well.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41Right, here's another question.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45What's the best idea you've ever had?
0:10:45 > 0:10:47TONY: I think probably introducing a dog.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49JO: Arnold! BOB: Arnold, yes.
0:10:49 > 0:10:50Arnold the dog.
0:10:50 > 0:10:54I found Arnold on a sound effects record on Radio Caroline.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56It's sad, isn't it, that's the best idea I ever had?
0:10:56 > 0:10:59I found this dog and I thought, well, British people love dogs
0:10:59 > 0:11:03and I introduced this dog, and this dog, Arnold.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06It certainly got more fan mail than I ever got.
0:11:06 > 0:11:08SIMON: Why Arnold? TONY: I don't know.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10I just came up with the idea, Arnold, I don't know, out of the blue
0:11:11 > 0:11:13and this dog barked and barked and barked
0:11:13 > 0:11:14and I got really quite annoyed.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18It became terribly annoying but it was so popular I couldn't drop him.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21The only feature I've had which stood the test of time
0:11:21 > 0:11:24is Confessions, which I'm still doing, which I'm still doing now,
0:11:24 > 0:11:25but I think it started as a...
0:11:25 > 0:11:29It was doing Breakfast and it was a record amnesty,
0:11:29 > 0:11:32I think it started off as a record amnesty, you know
0:11:32 > 0:11:35admitting to records that you still possess that you borrowed
0:11:35 > 0:11:38from your neighbour or girlfriend or something. And we had,
0:11:38 > 0:11:43"Yes, I've still got this after five years, this album after 10 years..."
0:11:43 > 0:11:47and then... So that was it and I thought there was going to be,
0:11:47 > 0:11:49like you say, a feature that lasted a day
0:11:49 > 0:11:52and then got letters from people saying,
0:11:52 > 0:11:57"While you're at it, can I say that, not only did I borrow his album
0:11:57 > 0:12:00"but I also borrowed his wife," I don't know, it was...
0:12:00 > 0:12:04And I was thinking, "Hang on a second, I'm not sure we can do this."
0:12:04 > 0:12:06Then started to read out some of the letters
0:12:06 > 0:12:10and then it was like opening the floodgates as though people,
0:12:10 > 0:12:13they'd stopped telling the pastor what they'd done
0:12:13 > 0:12:15so they wanted to tell someone on the radio.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19We were talking earlier on about whether our kids listen to the radio
0:12:19 > 0:12:22and what they do listen to and my kids are across the whole age range,
0:12:22 > 0:12:24but they love Confessions, that's the one thing that they're all like,
0:12:24 > 0:12:26"Turn it up, turn it up, we like this."
0:12:26 > 0:12:28The most frustrating thing is that I can't do so many
0:12:28 > 0:12:31that we used to do without any...
0:12:31 > 0:12:34They were just, no-one even wanted to know what I was going to read out,
0:12:34 > 0:12:38I'd just choose them and there was one which I know wouldn't...
0:12:38 > 0:12:44Ones involving goats and hamsters, which were always the most popular,
0:12:44 > 0:12:47would never get through any more.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50There was one from a hospital orderly
0:12:50 > 0:12:52who'd been out on the town
0:12:52 > 0:12:56and his job was to prepare people for operations and he was
0:12:56 > 0:12:59shaving a guy's chest because he was having a heart operation.
0:12:59 > 0:13:00He said, "I wasn't concentrating
0:13:00 > 0:13:03"and before I knew what had happened I'd shaved off his nipples,"
0:13:03 > 0:13:06and it got a fantastic reaction and people wrote in
0:13:06 > 0:13:09and all of that sort of stuff and now it wouldn't actually get on the air
0:13:09 > 0:13:11because it involves...
0:13:11 > 0:13:15JO: Too many repercussions! ..Illegality, I suppose!
0:13:15 > 0:13:18THEY ALL SPEAK AT ONCE
0:13:18 > 0:13:21I have got one more idea I came up with which is the Golden Hour.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23KEN: Full of ideas, this man!
0:13:23 > 0:13:25I came up with that idea, that's lasted long time,
0:13:25 > 0:13:26KEN: That WAS a good idea.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30The only good idea I ever had, I think, was to decide to myself
0:13:30 > 0:13:34I was not a serious broadcaster because I thought I was at one time.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37I used to do hospital radio. I did record shows and I thought,
0:13:37 > 0:13:39"This is good fun," and I joined the BBC
0:13:40 > 0:13:42and I thought, "No, actually, I'm going to be a serious broadcaster
0:13:42 > 0:13:45"and do politics and current affairs and things like that."
0:13:45 > 0:13:48And it became apparent to me that while I could just about
0:13:48 > 0:13:51get away with it, I wasn't actually any good at it
0:13:51 > 0:13:55and I was better at doing record programmes and so I thought,
0:13:55 > 0:13:56"Right, well, that's what I'll do."
0:13:56 > 0:13:59That happened to me because I did radio journalism at college
0:13:59 > 0:14:02and so you're with all these really hard-bitten journalists
0:14:02 > 0:14:04and they're all out there searching stories
0:14:04 > 0:14:07and tracking them down and I just used to sit in the studio
0:14:07 > 0:14:11just doing segues and talking up to vocals and just being a proper anorak
0:14:11 > 0:14:13and I just thought, "This is it, this is my path."
0:14:13 > 0:14:16Nobody else here wants to do it but I love it, I love playing songs,
0:14:16 > 0:14:19I love listening to music and I made the exact same decision,
0:14:19 > 0:14:22"Right, this is my future, I can't pretend to be anything else."
0:14:22 > 0:14:25I couldn't get excited enough, as much as the journalists did,
0:14:25 > 0:14:28about the latest Cabinet reshuffle. I thought, "Oh, yeah, that's nice."
0:14:28 > 0:14:30And it was at that point I realised,
0:14:30 > 0:14:32actually, you're not cut out for this.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35Actually, there's more competition in that field as well, isn't there?
0:14:35 > 0:14:37There aren't so many people who can talk nonsense.
0:14:38 > 0:14:39It is strange, though.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42There are fewer and fewer people because there isn't...
0:14:42 > 0:14:46At least there was a sort of training ground when you and I were younger,
0:14:46 > 0:14:49from local stations perhaps,
0:14:49 > 0:14:52pirate ships, commercial stations,
0:14:52 > 0:14:57there were many of them, who were allowed to be themselves.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59Fewer and fewer people are doing that now.
0:14:59 > 0:15:01The BBC local stations are more speech than music
0:15:01 > 0:15:06and so nobody is being left in a room with a box of records and told,
0:15:07 > 0:15:10"Fill two hours," any more, which was always the way you learned.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12OK, here's another question.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17What's the song you most enjoy playing and why?
0:15:17 > 0:15:19Oh, can I go with this one? Yes.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22Baz Luhrmann, Everyone's Free To Wear Sunscreen because it is one...
0:15:22 > 0:15:24You mentioned earlier on, Ken, about when you play a song
0:15:24 > 0:15:27and it makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up
0:15:27 > 0:15:29and you know it's having that effect on everyone else.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31Without fail, every time I play that
0:15:31 > 0:15:33you always get an enormous audience reaction.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36People who never heard it before and then other people who've listened
0:15:36 > 0:15:40to it and there'll always be one line that you'll listen to in that song
0:15:40 > 0:15:42and you'll just go, "That's so true, I will be a better person,
0:15:42 > 0:15:44"I will do this thing and I will wear sunscreen."
0:15:44 > 0:15:47It's, I just love playing that song.
0:15:47 > 0:15:48My answer is totally sentimental
0:15:48 > 0:15:52because my mum's favourite song in the whole world hands down,
0:15:52 > 0:15:54it's Midnight Train To Georgia by Gladys Knight
0:15:54 > 0:15:58and I remember her looking on the dial for it when I was little,
0:15:58 > 0:16:01when it was very popular, I don't know how old I was, five,
0:16:01 > 0:16:05and she used to be stirring inedible stew, singing in the wooden spoon
0:16:05 > 0:16:08and I remember, I think it was the first time I stood in for Ken,
0:16:08 > 0:16:11and it was on the list, because I just get the list,
0:16:11 > 0:16:14and I'm so grateful, I don't make eye contact with anybody.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18I haven't sent in an invoice, I can't believe they let me stand in for you
0:16:18 > 0:16:22and that was on and that was a proper moment, it doesn't get better...
0:16:22 > 0:16:25Like, even if they then say, "You've got to leave now,
0:16:25 > 0:16:26"don't write to us any more,"
0:16:26 > 0:16:28I've still done this.
0:16:28 > 0:16:30And when your mum was singing at home did you have to do,
0:16:30 > 0:16:33"Superstar, but he didn't get far." You did all that stuff?
0:16:33 > 0:16:35All of that and then she would... Yeah, it was.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38TONY: Great song. It's a great song.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42And that is, yeah, every morning, or every afternoon, her singing.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45I don't, is this the same as what's your favourite song?
0:16:45 > 0:16:46Because I'm not sure.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49CLAUDIA: No, because that's not my favourite song.
0:16:49 > 0:16:54So I think, my instinctive reaction was to say Stay With Me by The Faces
0:16:54 > 0:16:59because it just always sounds fantastic on the radio but I think
0:16:59 > 0:17:05also if you see a track like Elbow doing One Day Like This,
0:17:05 > 0:17:09you know that the audience are going to go mad for it,
0:17:09 > 0:17:11they absolutely love it,
0:17:11 > 0:17:14and I think when you get a track like that it's sort of a gift
0:17:14 > 0:17:17because you're thinking, everyone is going to stop what they're doing...
0:17:17 > 0:17:18OK, everyone stop, turn this up.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21You know there'll be people in cars who'll turn it up really loud,
0:17:21 > 0:17:23looking across at each other, having that communal moment.
0:17:24 > 0:17:25- Arms raised. - There will be somebody working
0:17:25 > 0:17:28in a sentry box somewhere listening on an iPod or something
0:17:28 > 0:17:30and they will all have that little moment
0:17:30 > 0:17:32and that's the joy of what we do, isn't it?
0:17:32 > 0:17:35Yes, in the context of us talking about radio and things
0:17:35 > 0:17:37Rex Bob Lowenstein, Mark Germino... TONY: Fantastic, yeah
0:17:37 > 0:17:40..which tells the story of this kind of rebel DJ
0:17:40 > 0:17:43who just played everything from Madonna to George Jones.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46"Smash and trash till they cuffed him on the floor."
0:17:46 > 0:17:50And this company was brought in to rationalise the playlist
0:17:50 > 0:17:53and he was the last bastion fighting against this,
0:17:53 > 0:17:57just playing what he wanted to and eventually he had to, didn't he,
0:17:57 > 0:18:00lock himself in the studio until he was arrested
0:18:00 > 0:18:03and taken and the judge said to him,
0:18:03 > 0:18:05you know, when he's in the dock,
0:18:05 > 0:18:08"By the way, what was that great record that you played last night?"
0:18:08 > 0:18:11It's probably impossible to come up with your favourite record, isn't it?
0:18:11 > 0:18:13ALL: Yes. This Magic Moment, The Drifters.
0:18:13 > 0:18:14Oh, yes.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16The strings on that one. What's yours, Jo?
0:18:16 > 0:18:19I think there's also records that hit you for different reasons.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23I always love to hear and play on the radio, Nina Simone,
0:18:23 > 0:18:28I Put A Spell On You cos that really does give me the kind of "uh" moment.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32But then, is this actually affecting the audience in the same way?
0:18:32 > 0:18:35There are songs that I love playing on the radio because they lift me
0:18:35 > 0:18:39and I always get a picture, remember the Royle family,
0:18:39 > 0:18:43when Jim Royle and Twiggy were papering the room to Mambo No. 5
0:18:43 > 0:18:46and you know they were dancing and I think there are songs like that
0:18:46 > 0:18:49that I love playing, like Alesha Dixon, The Boy Does Nothing
0:18:49 > 0:18:53because that always makes me start moving and Beach Baby by First Class
0:18:53 > 0:18:56and Sugar Baby Love by The Rubettes, come on!
0:18:56 > 0:18:59That's got them all going. JO: First band I ever saw live!
0:18:59 > 0:19:02Frankly they're just great songs just to get you up
0:19:02 > 0:19:03and get the whole show up, I think.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05What is your most irritating radio habit?
0:19:05 > 0:19:07CLAUDIA: Oh. TONY: Oh.
0:19:07 > 0:19:08I'll go first.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13I think I'd find other people in the studio irritating.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16I don't want anyone else in the studio
0:19:16 > 0:19:18if they absolutely don't have to be there.
0:19:18 > 0:19:19KEN: I would rather be alone.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22I remember... Just now actually!
0:19:22 > 0:19:23THEY ALL LAUGH
0:19:23 > 0:19:27I remember when I was a young announcer on BBC Scotland,
0:19:27 > 0:19:28the senior announcer there,
0:19:28 > 0:19:32I was leaving one night and switched the light off in the cubicle outside
0:19:32 > 0:19:34the studio and he came rushing out
0:19:34 > 0:19:36and said, "Oh, don't do that! Don't do that!
0:19:36 > 0:19:39"I can't bear the thought of somebody listening that I can't see."
0:19:39 > 0:19:41And I thought, "But you're on the radio!"
0:19:41 > 0:19:44But he actually hated the idea of there being somebody possibly
0:19:44 > 0:19:46sitting watching him do it
0:19:46 > 0:19:50and I think that's the same as you're saying, Simon, it's an intimate thing
0:19:50 > 0:19:53and you want to feel surrounded by people that you know and trust,
0:19:53 > 0:19:56but you don't want strangers watching.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59These are more insecurities rather than bad habits, aren't they?
0:19:59 > 0:20:01JO: This is a therapy session, right?
0:20:01 > 0:20:03Who do we pay?
0:20:03 > 0:20:06You probably like it, don't you, because of the television.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08You always have a big team around you with TV, haven't you?
0:20:08 > 0:20:11Yes, far too many people so I much prefer radio
0:20:11 > 0:20:14but if I'm interviewing somebody and they say something,
0:20:14 > 0:20:18I like that I can see an immediate reaction from people
0:20:18 > 0:20:21sort of behind that person in the control room.
0:20:21 > 0:20:23My most irritating habit on air is the fact that
0:20:23 > 0:20:26I say a song is brilliant, even if I hate it. Continue.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28I say "um" all the time.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30I thought we were meant to be taking ourselves apart a bit more
0:20:30 > 0:20:31so I would never... Um.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34SIMON: We can be as reflective as you wish.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36Yeah, we haven't done embarrassing radio moments yet
0:20:36 > 0:20:39and that's kind of what I really wanted to know what everyone's is.
0:20:39 > 0:20:40Ken, why don't you start?
0:20:40 > 0:20:43I haven't had any at all!
0:20:43 > 0:20:46Just those moments that you like, oh, that you will always remember.
0:20:46 > 0:20:49Two of them, one of them being when I was reading out a text
0:20:49 > 0:20:53that was talking about the West Kent Country Ladies Hockey Club.
0:20:53 > 0:20:55That's available on the internet for people to listen to that.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57That was quite a good one.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59The other was when we had Biffy Clyro playing at Reading
0:20:59 > 0:21:02and it was obviously a live broadcast and very, very exciting.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05They've got very ardent fans so no-one was supposed to know
0:21:05 > 0:21:08they were going to be in this tiny little tent but obviously
0:21:08 > 0:21:10all the fans knew that they were going to be there so I'd run up
0:21:10 > 0:21:13onto the stage and I introduced Biffy who were going to do a cover
0:21:13 > 0:21:16of Rage Against The Machine, Killing In The Name Of which is very,
0:21:16 > 0:21:20very sweary and we hadn't really thought this through properly so...
0:21:20 > 0:21:23And the band had assured us they were going to do the sanitised version
0:21:23 > 0:21:25but, you know, you trust these guys.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27So, they go on stage and they start to perform it.
0:21:27 > 0:21:28THEY do the sanitised version,
0:21:28 > 0:21:31however the audience just sing really loudly
0:21:31 > 0:21:34at Reading and my producer...
0:21:34 > 0:21:38I remember looking over at my producer, Piers Bradford, going...
0:21:38 > 0:21:41We literally had to just go, "And we'll be leaving Biffy Clyro there."
0:21:41 > 0:21:43So that was one to remember.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47We probably all got a version,
0:21:47 > 0:21:49a story which is putting the wrong version.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52It's very difficult to play the wrong version any more because it's all,
0:21:52 > 0:21:55because we only get the right version if it's on the hard drive
0:21:55 > 0:21:58but I do remember at Radio 1 doing a golden hour,
0:21:58 > 0:22:00though we didn't call it The Golden Hour,
0:22:00 > 0:22:03we called it something else, but it was exactly the same thing,
0:22:03 > 0:22:08playing the KLF and it's, I had never heard the original version,
0:22:08 > 0:22:11with the sample goes, "It's time to kick out the jams,"
0:22:11 > 0:22:15and then in the hit version it's then got a reversed tape loop
0:22:15 > 0:22:17of what he actually says
0:22:17 > 0:22:21and I had put on the wrong version so it actually starts with
0:22:21 > 0:22:25this guy shouting "OK, it's time to kick out the jams...melon farmers"
0:22:25 > 0:22:29and I heard it as it went through and my producer heard it and we both
0:22:29 > 0:22:32looked at each other at the same time, thinking, "Did that go out?"
0:22:32 > 0:22:33"Yes, it did."
0:22:33 > 0:22:36The phone rings and it's the head of music saying,
0:22:36 > 0:22:38"Take it off now, there's another one coming,"
0:22:38 > 0:22:40and I said, "No, no, no, I don't..."
0:22:40 > 0:22:41Yes, there was.
0:22:41 > 0:22:42THEY ALL LAUGH
0:22:43 > 0:22:45So you take it off but that's kind of par for the course
0:22:45 > 0:22:48and everyone loves it actually, everyone thought it was very funny
0:22:48 > 0:22:52but the really worst one was my producer arranging Naomi Campbell
0:22:52 > 0:22:55to come in with a cake for my birthday and I didn't recognise her.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57CLAUDIA GASPS
0:22:57 > 0:23:00So the incident was going out, thanks very much!
0:23:00 > 0:23:03And he hadn't realised that I hadn't worked out who it was
0:23:03 > 0:23:05and eventually he went, "It's Naomi Campbell."
0:23:05 > 0:23:07"OK, thanks, Naomi, for coming in."
0:23:07 > 0:23:10Was it a cake-a-gram or something?
0:23:10 > 0:23:12SIMON: It was. JO: A girl's got to work!
0:23:12 > 0:23:15My most embarrassing moment didn't happen that long ago.
0:23:15 > 0:23:18I bring cake in when I stand-in for Ken
0:23:18 > 0:23:20because I figure people like...
0:23:20 > 0:23:23Anyway, I bake and I get so nervous about standing in for you that
0:23:23 > 0:23:26I bake at 4.00am and they said, "You probably shouldn't eat that crumbly
0:23:26 > 0:23:30"lemon cake over the desk," and I was like, "Oh, whatever!" You know!
0:23:30 > 0:23:34And as I saw a lump went in and the whole thing sort of seized.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36JO GASPS - I probably shouldn't admit this
0:23:36 > 0:23:39but then there was a sort of 40 second...
0:23:39 > 0:23:44And I was, because I'm not, I'm nothing like as brilliant as you
0:23:44 > 0:23:48and I haven't had the experience and I was... And there was cake
0:23:48 > 0:23:50and the producer was going, "We told you, the cake in the..."
0:23:50 > 0:23:53And it was sort of steaming, then a man turned up with a ladder.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56I love that, if it all goes wrong, with a ladder!
0:23:56 > 0:23:58And there was 30 seconds at least of dead sound
0:23:58 > 0:24:00which I know is the worst thing you can do in the whole world.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02SIMON: Cake-induced silence.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04JO: I thought it was only tea, I didn't realise cake was a hazard.
0:24:04 > 0:24:05- Apparently. - Oh, my God,
0:24:05 > 0:24:07I'll have to rethink my whole studio behaviour!
0:24:07 > 0:24:10KEN: Champagne is the worst of all! - You would know.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13I think mine's probably introducing Duran Duran as "Durren Durren".
0:24:13 > 0:24:16JO: I heard that, I remember listening to that.
0:24:16 > 0:24:17On the Top 40.
0:24:17 > 0:24:21JO: Isn't that funny, I remember where I was when I heard you say that
0:24:21 > 0:24:22and I liked them and I was like,
0:24:22 > 0:24:24"I can't believe he just said "Durren Durren"!"
0:24:24 > 0:24:26Yeah. "Durren Durren".
0:24:26 > 0:24:30And the other one was doing the Radio 1 Breakfast Show
0:24:30 > 0:24:34and I had the same manager, Harold Davidson, who handled Frank Sinatra
0:24:34 > 0:24:37and Frank Sinatra - I picked up the phone and said, "Who's that?"
0:24:37 > 0:24:39He said "Frank", and I said "Frank who?"
0:24:39 > 0:24:42He said, "Frank Sinatra," and I put the phone down and it WAS him.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45That was embarrassing. I had to ring him back.
0:24:45 > 0:24:49The other one, very quickly, was interviewing Eartha Kitt,
0:24:49 > 0:24:50do you remember Eartha Kitt?
0:24:50 > 0:24:53And she'd just come off a flight from America and I was
0:24:53 > 0:24:56interviewing her and the question I asked was obviously quite long
0:24:56 > 0:24:59because at the end of it she'd fell asleep!
0:24:59 > 0:25:01THEY ALL LAUGH
0:25:01 > 0:25:03BOB: That's fabulous. - So I just quickly put a record on.
0:25:03 > 0:25:05BOB: That's fabulous.
0:25:05 > 0:25:06Another question.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10What will it be like to work in radio in 10 years' time?
0:25:10 > 0:25:13Well, let's assume, let's hope that we are all going to be there
0:25:13 > 0:25:16and we'll have our shows and they'll all be better
0:25:16 > 0:25:19but what will it be like to work in radio in 10 years?
0:25:19 > 0:25:20It so difficult to predict, isn't it,
0:25:21 > 0:25:23because technology moves on so quickly.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25But the death of radio has been predicted for as long as
0:25:25 > 0:25:27I've been listening to it.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29TONY: Oh, I don't think that will ever happen.
0:25:29 > 0:25:30In the '60s they were saying
0:25:30 > 0:25:32"Sound radio is dead, television is the way ahead.
0:25:32 > 0:25:34"Nobody will listen to the radio in 10 years' time.
0:25:34 > 0:25:36BOB: Video Killed The Radio Star.
0:25:36 > 0:25:38But of course the mp3 player, the Walkman was
0:25:38 > 0:25:41the first thing that came in and nobody will listen to the radio.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44The youngsters, you've got hundreds of children, haven't you, Ken?
0:25:44 > 0:25:46KEN: Hundreds, literally!
0:25:46 > 0:25:48My children don't listen to radio and I don't think young...
0:25:48 > 0:25:51They tend to come back, Spotify, it's YouTube, isn't it, Simon,
0:25:51 > 0:25:53you've got children.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56Yes. But do kids listen to radio?
0:25:56 > 0:25:58They will listen to audio entertainment
0:25:58 > 0:26:01and they'll listen to it on their phone.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04JO: They'll listen in the car if you make them listen to it!
0:26:04 > 0:26:08KEN: But they will still want somebody to bring them the music
0:26:08 > 0:26:12that they're getting. They still want a human communication.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15The record producer T-Bone Burnett,
0:26:15 > 0:26:21T-Bone is 64 now and he very strongly believes in the role of the curator,
0:26:21 > 0:26:27particularly, he says, in this day of internet where
0:26:27 > 0:26:29there is now so much information.
0:26:29 > 0:26:34There is a parallel between that and what we do, that we are,
0:26:34 > 0:26:36we are introducing people to new music,
0:26:36 > 0:26:39we're pointing them in the direction of ideas that we think are good
0:26:39 > 0:26:41and I tend to go along with T-Bone with this,
0:26:41 > 0:26:46that the idea of the curator becomes more important as time goes by,
0:26:46 > 0:26:49where you've got so much information overload.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52I think kids really still like the idea of presenters actually,
0:26:52 > 0:26:54like with Radio 1. CLAUDIA: So do I. Like Grimmy.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58Yes, exactly, Grimmy and Greg James and just as we used to,
0:26:58 > 0:27:01I used to listen to Simon, I used to listen to Tony.
0:27:01 > 0:27:05People like to have people who are taste makers and who entertain them,
0:27:05 > 0:27:06so they will turn on the radio and they will,
0:27:06 > 0:27:09they'll listen to Chris Evans as well
0:27:09 > 0:27:11so I'm sure that that appetite will always be there.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14Webcams will probably become more important as well,
0:27:14 > 0:27:17you know radio television, I think there's a possibility of that.
0:27:17 > 0:27:20God, I don't think it could get any more! Everything that we do.
0:27:20 > 0:27:23That's the irony, that we go into radio because we quite like the
0:27:23 > 0:27:26solitude and the intimacy and then everything is filmed all the time,
0:27:26 > 0:27:28everything you do, which is fine because that's what
0:27:28 > 0:27:31the audience demands and we kind of have to fit in with that
0:27:31 > 0:27:32but that is ironic.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36Is the answer, one of the answers, that there'll be much more work?
0:27:36 > 0:27:39Everyone is going to have to work much harder because you can't just
0:27:39 > 0:27:43go in with a pile of records any more, although that's in our soul.
0:27:43 > 0:27:47Just you, pile of records, go in and make a radio programme.
0:27:47 > 0:27:50Actually, you will be expected to do that
0:27:50 > 0:27:54and then to write some stuff on a blog or do some social media
0:27:54 > 0:27:57or to film it and do that because that is just the way it is.
0:27:57 > 0:28:01But it will still be able to be appreciated and experienced
0:28:01 > 0:28:05in its original form, just you listening to a person and music.
0:28:05 > 0:28:08SIMON: I think we're out of time. CLAUDIA: Oh.
0:28:08 > 0:28:10Thank you very much indeed. KEN: Thank you.
0:28:10 > 0:28:12KEN: It's been fun. JO: It's been a revelation.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14BOB: It really has been. It's been really good.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18I know, more stories, can we just stay here? These people can leave.
0:28:18 > 0:28:20SIMON: We can lose the pictures and just carry on with sound.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23KEN: I'm amazed Tony Blackburn's still in work after all these things
0:28:23 > 0:28:26that went wrong in his career! JO: He's had so many great ideas,
0:28:26 > 0:28:28- that's why he's still here. KEN: That's it.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30SIMON: Has anyone actually sworn on air?
0:28:30 > 0:28:32TONY: I called Radio Caroline, Radio BLEEP.
0:28:32 > 0:28:34KEN: I didn't mean to say it but I said,
0:28:34 > 0:28:36"Well, it's better than listening to this old BLEEP"
0:28:36 > 0:28:39And I thought, "I just said BLEEP!" THEY ALL LAUGH
0:28:39 > 0:28:41I nearly went on and said something worse because I'd said BLEEP!
0:28:42 > 0:28:43LAUGHTER FADES AWAY