:00:00. > :00:00.relegated from the Premier League. Now on BBC News, Kate and Gerry
:00:00. > :00:07.McCann talk to Fiona Bruce, seven years after their daughter Madeleine
:00:08. > :00:09.went missing in Praia da Luz. Let's talk about the new evidence
:00:10. > :00:17.that Scotland Yard have come forward with. This string of assaults in the
:00:18. > :00:20.Algarve, and particularly this revelation about an assault on a
:00:21. > :00:23.10`year`old girl in Praia da Luz, where you are staying, just two
:00:24. > :00:25.years before you were there. How encouraged are you by that kind of
:00:26. > :00:28.information? I think the positive thing is that
:00:29. > :00:43.information is still coming into the enquiry. As horrific, obviously, as
:00:44. > :00:47.all these crimes are. We did know about at least half a dozen of them
:00:48. > :00:53.right the very beginning, when Madeline was taken. And through our
:00:54. > :00:56.own investigation and through the Met work, many more have been
:00:57. > :00:59.uncovered. And none of these crimes have been solved.
:01:00. > :01:14.One of the interesting things for me is that there are two aspects. First
:01:15. > :01:17.of all, I'd like to thank all those families who have come forward
:01:18. > :01:19.because we know that can be very traumatic, going back over something
:01:20. > :01:22.horrible which happened to them while they were on holiday. The
:01:23. > :01:25.second thing is that despite all the publicity, these cases are
:01:26. > :01:28.potentially and we've got new evidence and witnesses coming for.
:01:29. > :01:30.So, it is interesting in terms of what the public get asked for.
:01:31. > :01:33.Because they were not abductions, some people had not come forward.
:01:34. > :01:40.But potentially, obviously, these crimes could be linked. So, it is
:01:41. > :01:43.interesting. And for me, it is that the Metropolitan Police's attitude
:01:44. > :01:46.and how they have looked at the evidence and distilled it down and
:01:47. > :01:48.come back and specifically asked firstly about burglaries and then
:01:49. > :01:51.secondly about sexual assaults. And hundreds of people have come
:01:52. > :01:54.forward. Do you think that the right
:01:55. > :01:55.questions were not being asked before, but they are being asked
:01:56. > :01:57.now? Well...
:01:58. > :02:01.There might be an element of that, but I think that sometimes you need
:02:02. > :02:04.to be really specific for the public. I think they need to know
:02:05. > :02:07.what is being asked of them. And does it give you hope, if that
:02:08. > :02:11.is the right word? Well, from my point of view, what is
:02:12. > :02:14.very clear is that there are lots of lines of enquiry that need further
:02:15. > :02:20.investigation. We have always tried to look forward. I don't want to
:02:21. > :02:24.criticise too much what happened, but there was a deluge of
:02:25. > :02:30.information that came in. And one of the things we campaigned for was to
:02:31. > :02:33.get a review. The Metropolitan Police have now had time to properly
:02:34. > :02:50.distil that and are now following an investigative line. So we are
:02:51. > :02:53.encouraged. It is hard for us, because until we get something that
:02:54. > :02:57.brings us very close to finding Madeleine, then we don't get too
:02:58. > :03:00.excited. But what is very clear is that there are lots of lines of
:03:01. > :03:04.enquiry and a lot more work needs to be done in Portugal. The Met can
:03:05. > :03:07.only do so much with the information they have. And now, the British
:03:08. > :03:12.families who have been affected will be interviewed. But a lot of
:03:13. > :03:14.enquiries will have to take place in Portugal.
:03:15. > :03:20.The Portuguese police have ruled out a joint investigation for now with
:03:21. > :03:23.the British police. It is quite a bureaucratic process for the British
:03:24. > :03:26.police to get their feet on the ground in Portugal, to be able to
:03:27. > :03:34.ask questions. That must be frustrating.
:03:35. > :03:38.It is. And I think that to us it makes sense that the two police
:03:39. > :03:41.forces should work together. I mean, to have a more streamlined approach
:03:42. > :03:48.to the investigation and basically to progress the investigation at a
:03:49. > :04:04.faster pace. I'm not sure why the joint investigation team has been
:04:05. > :04:06.knocked back. We know that many countries, including Portugal, have
:04:07. > :04:08.gone into joint investigation teams before, whether it be drug
:04:09. > :04:10.trafficking... For us, child abduction.
:04:11. > :04:12.Do you think that it is because there is particular sensitivity
:04:13. > :04:15.about this case? It's difficult. I mean, on the
:04:16. > :04:18.positive side, the Portuguese investigation has reopened. And that
:04:19. > :04:21.is a big step forward. But by not having a joint investigation team,
:04:22. > :04:24.they are having to go through a very bureaucratic process, international
:04:25. > :04:36.letters being sent, going through the Crown Prosecution Service, and
:04:37. > :04:39.then there are delays... The concern that both we and the Metropolitan
:04:40. > :04:41.Police have is that at the minute there is almost a parallel
:04:42. > :04:52.investigation going on. That doesn't make sense. We're not quite sure why
:04:53. > :04:55.there is resistance to the joint investigation team because clearly,
:04:56. > :04:58.resources in Portugal is an issue. And this would be one mechanism by
:04:59. > :05:01.which they could have additional funding. We can only see the
:05:02. > :05:04.positives of going down that route. Do you think there is a sense, I am
:05:05. > :05:07.speculating obviously, that the Portuguese police feel, this is one
:05:08. > :05:10.case we do not want to revisit. There was so much publicity around
:05:11. > :05:18.it and not favourable, certainly here, to the Portuguese police.
:05:19. > :05:21.I think that we had those concerns, but actually if you speak to Andy
:05:22. > :05:24.Redwood and his team, he's the senior investigating officer from
:05:25. > :05:29.the Met, he says that the people he is working with in Portugal do want
:05:30. > :05:32.to solve this. What difference do you think it will
:05:33. > :05:35.make if British police can get to Praia da Luz and the area around,
:05:36. > :05:37.and start asking questions themselves?
:05:38. > :05:48.I think any enquiries would still have to be done with the Portuguese
:05:49. > :05:52.police. That will not change. But, maybe where the Met's expertise lies
:05:53. > :05:55.is in terms of taking a very complex crime like this, with huge amounts
:05:56. > :05:58.of information, and from our point of view it is about bottoming the
:05:59. > :06:11.line of enquiry as far as we possibly can. So you have that audit
:06:12. > :06:14.trail to show. That is something that has not always been clear, why
:06:15. > :06:17.something has been eliminated or not followed. As parents, we want
:06:18. > :06:21.everything that can reasonably be done to be done.
:06:22. > :06:31.As parents, I find the slowness of action in Portugal really hard to
:06:32. > :06:34.take. I find it quite distressing because even though we are seven
:06:35. > :06:37.years down the line, waiting weeks or months, particularly for letters
:06:38. > :06:41.of request, to be processed and fed down the chain and then to come back
:06:42. > :06:50.again and maybe have to go back again because it was not quite what
:06:51. > :06:52.was asked... It is frustrating. I suppose I do struggle with that
:06:53. > :07:04.fact. You know, please work together.
:07:05. > :07:07.How do you deal with that? I think what has been a huge weight
:07:08. > :07:12.off our shoulders is that the Metropolitan Police have been
:07:13. > :07:15.driving this for the last two years. Whereas, before, essentially it was
:07:16. > :07:32.the family without their co`operation and that was an
:07:33. > :07:35.incredible burden. Our lives are much easier since the
:07:36. > :07:39.Met came on board. And what we clearly have is that the
:07:40. > :07:42.Met has been very good at keeping us updated. They get that our daughter
:07:43. > :07:47.is missing. And it is hard. I think... You can always tell I am
:07:48. > :07:54.trying to be positive. As long as things are moving...
:07:55. > :07:57.Even though it must at times feel like you are moving at the speed of
:07:58. > :08:01.rock erosion... When we look back, and say, look
:08:02. > :08:05.where we were two years ago, and we are further forward.
:08:06. > :08:08.When this information came out about the 10`year`old girl who was
:08:09. > :08:14.assaulted, two years prior to your holiday in Praia da Luz, that must
:08:15. > :08:18.have been a shock. And you must have thought, if we had known, would we
:08:19. > :08:21.have gone there? I think these are decisions or
:08:22. > :08:28.things that we cannot change, unfortunately. If we knew everything
:08:29. > :08:32.we now know, whether we would have gone is another matter. Our
:08:33. > :08:36.behaviour probably would have been different. But we cannot change
:08:37. > :08:49.that, unfortunately. Would you go back? I remember going
:08:50. > :08:52.to Praia da Luz along with so much of the media around the time
:08:53. > :08:55.Madeleine was first taken. And it dominated the town. There were
:08:56. > :09:02.pictures everywhere for a long time afterwards. And now there are no
:09:03. > :09:05.pictures there. Would you ever go back yourselves, put up posters, or
:09:06. > :09:06.some other way of trying to generate interest and get more evidence
:09:07. > :09:26.again? I do go back. I haven't been since
:09:27. > :09:29.last April. For personal reasons. Regularly?
:09:30. > :09:31.I might once or twice a year, it has gone down to now.
:09:32. > :09:34.To go to the church there? Yes. All that.
:09:35. > :09:36.A lot of the local community are incredibly supportive. Portuguese
:09:37. > :09:52.and others. And we have made good friends there.
:09:53. > :09:56.It is difficult because we do not want to go back and generate
:09:57. > :09:59.publicity because I know a lot of local people do not like that, or
:10:00. > :10:03.resent that and whilst we have some really good friends in Praia da Luz,
:10:04. > :10:05.I know some people would like it to go away. So when I go there, I go
:10:06. > :10:09.quietly. I guess for you, it is a chance to
:10:10. > :10:12.be close to her. It is. That is obviously the last
:10:13. > :10:15.place we were with Madeleine and I will still walk those streets, I
:10:16. > :10:18.guess and try to look for answers, or... So, it helps me. Most of the
:10:19. > :10:21.time. I think that in response to the
:10:22. > :10:31.direct bit about posters, that is something that after the first few
:10:32. > :10:34.weeks I did think about. Will we come back here every year? But we
:10:35. > :10:38.are very much leaving that to the police now. Madeleine's case has
:10:39. > :10:41.obviously had lots of publicity. I am not sure of any posters
:10:42. > :10:48.everywhere, given the intense media coverage there has been and
:10:49. > :10:51.continues to be. Operation Grange with the
:10:52. > :10:52.Metropolitan Police began two years ago, or so.
:10:53. > :10:58.Three. Three years ago now. How long does
:10:59. > :11:00.it go on, do you think? Is it indefinite?
:11:01. > :11:05.That is difficult... I think there has to be progress.
:11:06. > :11:10.That is the key. If the investigation is progressing. Then
:11:11. > :11:15.that is what it will be judged on. Are we making progress? And clearly,
:11:16. > :11:21.I think we are at a fairly critical juncture now. The focus of the first
:11:22. > :11:24.two years has been review and now the focus is very much investigation
:11:25. > :11:32.with an active investigation in the UK and in Portugal. The Metropolitan
:11:33. > :11:36.Police will say they do not close unsolved cases.
:11:37. > :11:39.But they wouldn't necessarily have a dozen officers working on one, as
:11:40. > :11:42.they are now. No. Exactly, and there has been a
:11:43. > :11:46.big team because of the complexity of the case and the volume of
:11:47. > :11:49.information. But it will be judged on whether they are making progress
:11:50. > :11:54.and whether there are additional lines of enquiry. That's the key
:11:55. > :11:57.thing. We understand that. So you can understand that there
:11:58. > :11:59.might come a moment when they might wind it down? If progress was not
:12:00. > :12:10.being made? Sure, and i think that would be
:12:11. > :12:13.justified in terms of use of resources but if there are lines of
:12:14. > :12:17.enquiry to be followed, we want them followed. And it would be incredibly
:12:18. > :12:21.hard for us and very hard for the team if it had to stop when there
:12:22. > :12:26.are lines of enquiry that need to be carried out. What is also clear from
:12:27. > :12:29.the recent appeal is that there are multiple British families who have
:12:30. > :12:38.been affected in an area with potentially linked crimes. One thing
:12:39. > :12:42.that strikes me, seeing you both sat here, is that you are familiar faces
:12:43. > :12:51.in a way you would never have wanted to become. Although it covers nearly
:12:52. > :12:54.seven years ago, I was told today that at the time, Kate, you're
:12:55. > :13:08.trying to keep a lid on things as far as you could when you are out of
:13:09. > :13:12.the public eye. Were you adviced to show no emotion of the time? Tell me
:13:13. > :13:16.about that, because I find that extraordinary. That was in the early
:13:17. > :13:20.days, really, particularly when we were doing appeals, for example to
:13:21. > :13:23.the abductor. We were told by advisers at the CEOP that showing
:13:24. > :13:32.emotion may affect the behaviour of the abductor. That is the Police
:13:33. > :13:34.Child Exploitation Unit? Yes. You were everywhere in the Portuguese
:13:35. > :13:37.and international press as well as the British press, and there was
:13:38. > :13:44.endless speculation about you and your motives and every action was
:13:45. > :13:47.scrutinised. That you kept it all in publicly was something that ended up
:13:48. > :13:56.being criticised in some quarters but this was the advice given. I did
:13:57. > :14:09.keep it all and there are clips taken of me managing to stay calm.
:14:10. > :14:12.There are two separate bits of doing the media appeals that was the
:14:13. > :14:15.advice given very early on, specifically in relation to an
:14:16. > :14:18.appeal that Kate did and that is often harked back to those some
:14:19. > :14:27.footage quite early on of Kate coming out the church and she is
:14:28. > :14:30.virtually being supported out of it. Things were used out of context
:14:31. > :14:33.there and as you know, when you're doing interviews and you're trying
:14:34. > :14:45.to get your message across it is not you, you are specifically... It is
:14:46. > :14:48.your one chance to help get your message out so whatever it takes
:14:49. > :14:55.will do it. This is the seventh anniversary on Saturday. How will
:14:56. > :14:59.you mark that? We usually have a small gathering in the village which
:15:00. > :15:02.we have done for the last so many years and we have always said it is
:15:03. > :15:08.actually Madeleine's birthday which follows soon after. That would've
:15:09. > :15:15.been more difficult. She would have been 11, that is the more difficult
:15:16. > :15:29.day? Yes. How do you mark that for a child who is not there? We always
:15:30. > :15:33.remember her. We are with her close family and with the twins but it is
:15:34. > :15:37.hard, it is really hard. She's not there and should be celebrating with
:15:38. > :15:43.us. It is by far the toughest day of the year. I imagine it is this hard
:15:44. > :15:53.every year. Oh yes, definitely. She will be 11 years old. She is due to
:15:54. > :15:59.start secondary school in September. It's a long time. What is your best
:16:00. > :16:05.hope of where Madeleine is now? You have always maintained she could be
:16:06. > :16:08.alive. Seven years after someone goes missing, you can have a death
:16:09. > :16:23.certificate. You have declined that. You do not want that. I think very
:16:24. > :16:26.early on the advice from the National Centre for missing and
:16:27. > :16:28.exploited children were saying that there are many reasons why children
:16:29. > :16:32.get taken and they have recovered hundreds of children and unusual
:16:33. > :16:35.circumstances. It has not been ruled out that Madeleine was taken by
:16:36. > :16:41.somebody who wanted a child and she is being loved and cared for. That
:16:42. > :16:55.is the best scenario but of course there are many others. Statistics
:16:56. > :16:59.are important and people will always quote statistics and likelihood to
:17:00. > :17:02.you but if you are Jaycee Lee Dugard or Natascha Kampusch ot Elizabeth
:17:03. > :17:05.Smart or the three women that were found this time last year... They
:17:06. > :17:12.were all women who were found, possibly dead? Those statistics then
:17:13. > :17:25.mean nothing. Every time you share one of those cases, you must think
:17:26. > :17:28.it could be you next? We're not blinkered and we know what the
:17:29. > :17:31.statistics say and what the different scenarios are we also know
:17:32. > :17:34.about all of these cases and for each one of those children, now
:17:35. > :17:37.women, who have been found, statistics would've said they were
:17:38. > :17:40.dead. The other thing is the younger the child, the more likely they are
:17:41. > :17:44.taken to be kept and Madeleine was very young. She was three. Nearly
:17:45. > :17:47.four. Kids are very adaptable, so if you really did think that he would
:17:48. > :17:57.take a child, and potentially that could happen. But it is speculation
:17:58. > :18:10.and I try not to think about it too much. The important thing is
:18:11. > :18:22.following the leads. Keeping an active search. Had kept her bedroom
:18:23. > :18:26.for her? Could she walk back in? Yes, she might want to change it now
:18:27. > :18:29.she is a bit older but that is all the same although there is much more
:18:30. > :18:32.in it because the public is helped in so many ways. We still get
:18:33. > :18:36.birthday cards for Madeleine from strangers and she has a lot of gifts
:18:37. > :18:40.waiting to be opened. The house is there waiting for her. And what
:18:41. > :18:48.about the twins, Sean and Emily, who are nine now? How did they deal with
:18:49. > :18:53.it and how do you deal with Madeleine's absence? They are great
:18:54. > :19:00.kids. I have to say that first of all. They really are wonderful. I
:19:01. > :19:10.know I'm a bit biased. I guess they have grown up with their big sister
:19:11. > :19:13.not being there. She has talked about frequently and they know why
:19:14. > :19:18.we are here today and we do try to keep them as informed as we can
:19:19. > :19:22.because they will hear it. And they will hear it on the radio or
:19:23. > :19:24.whatever and also for them it would be very confusing that was
:19:25. > :19:28.completely blocked out of their life. At the end of the day, we are
:19:29. > :19:35.family of five and they have an elder sister and they have handled
:19:36. > :19:44.that incredibly well. I think as children do. And we have had good
:19:45. > :19:51.advice about being open with them they can ask is any questions. They
:19:52. > :19:56.know almost as much as we do. I think as time goes on the questions
:19:57. > :19:59.may be getting more difficult. They have adapted incredibly well and
:20:00. > :20:16.there is no obvious dramatic signs with them. Kate, you talk in your
:20:17. > :20:21.book about suicidal thoughts. Certainly at the time. How do you
:20:22. > :20:28.keep going, how do you deal with this? You sit there holding hands
:20:29. > :20:30.and you are such familiar faces to the British public and, everyone
:20:31. > :20:41.knows you are the parents of Madeleine McCann. How do you deal
:20:42. > :20:45.with this? I think you do adapt and that is conscious. It is not a
:20:46. > :20:53.decision, maybe it is survival instinct and we have a lot to live
:20:54. > :20:57.for. This aside, we have a good life and we have lovely children and we
:20:58. > :21:05.need to be there for all three of them and we have each other with her
:21:06. > :21:09.family and friends. Now i look back and I think about those times when I
:21:10. > :21:13.was so low and I think the burden and the grief and the pain, and this
:21:14. > :21:17.is physical pain, was so great that I just wanted it to go away and now
:21:18. > :21:21.I look back and I feel horrified that I ever felt like that and know
:21:22. > :21:26.thatwe have to keep going for lots of different reasons. As you keep
:21:27. > :21:35.going, we talked about your best hope for Madeleine and the police
:21:36. > :21:47.are making enquiries. I wonder if you always wait for a call. Whatever
:21:48. > :21:50.you are, do you always have your phone to just in case someone calls
:21:51. > :21:55.rather than you'd just getting on with it and put it out of your mind?
:21:56. > :22:00.It certainly was the case for the very long time that the phone was
:22:01. > :22:06.constantly on. And it did feel like it could be it at any minute. At
:22:07. > :22:13.some point there was a transition and does not feel as urgent as that.
:22:14. > :22:20.You do not now feel you must always be informed? When we go away we
:22:21. > :22:30.always say to the police where we are. Sometimes it is nice when you
:22:31. > :22:33.can put your mobile phone aside. I think for your own health and
:22:34. > :22:35.well`being and for your family looking after the kids it is
:22:36. > :22:40.important that you are able to switch off. We've talked about it
:22:41. > :22:43.quite a bit in the past that exercise and things that we do, I
:22:44. > :23:03.suppose would be considered stress relievers. I think they got that
:23:04. > :23:07.quite quickly that you stay well. And for us to stay together as a
:23:08. > :23:12.family you do need to look after yourself as well. But did take quite
:23:13. > :23:24.a while. Can I ask you one final thing? You have talked about the
:23:25. > :23:29.young women that have been found that went missing as girls and
:23:30. > :23:32.profound many years later. Sometimes they did have access to television
:23:33. > :23:40.and newspapers and the Internet, they couldn't escape. It's a long
:23:41. > :23:43.shot but if Madeleine is alive, if she could hear, what would you say
:23:44. > :23:47.to her? We love you, Madeleine and we miss you every day as we did that
:23:48. > :23:49.very first day and we waiting for you and will never give up and we
:23:50. > :24:06.will do whatever we can to find you. Many places have a dry first day of
:24:07. > :24:09.the long weekend. Things are changing, however. Rain pushing
:24:10. > :24:11.across western Scotland and