Afghanistan: The Karzai Years

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:00:00. > :00:00.The Afghan President Hamid Karzai is preparing to step down and our chief

:00:00. > :00:00.international correspondent Lyse Doucet has been given special access

:00:00. > :00:14.to him to talk about the country's turbulent recent history. The worst

:00:15. > :00:22.of attacks in 2001 brought the best chance for peace in Afghanistan. The

:00:23. > :00:25.US led invasion in the wake of September the 11th toppled the

:00:26. > :00:32.Taliban, and Afghans hoped it would end 30 years of war. From their

:00:33. > :00:45.shattered nation, Hamid Karzai was chosen to lead. Then came the years

:00:46. > :00:53.of soaring hope, searing pain, and fear of the Taliban's return. Now

:00:54. > :01:00.Hamid Karzai blames his allies for much of his country's continuing

:01:01. > :01:07.violence. 13 years on he is preparing to step down. And we gain

:01:08. > :01:08.rare access to the palace to hear the President's reflections and

:01:09. > :01:27.regrets. Nice to see you, Mr President. A

:01:28. > :01:33.father lingers with his daughter before he heads to work. Hamid

:01:34. > :01:38.Karzai has taken care of Afghanistan for a decade and more and now has

:01:39. > :01:48.three young children. She is happy to say goodbye and not hello. She is

:01:49. > :01:51.not used to the cameras. That her father has been in the spotlight

:01:52. > :02:01.since the Taliban was toppled in 2001. My dear son, please go home,

:02:02. > :02:04.he urges the eight`year`old. But the grounds of this heavily fortified

:02:05. > :02:10.presidential palace are home, and almost every day for nearly 13 years

:02:11. > :02:16.the President has walked to work. With AIDS, bodyguards and armoured

:02:17. > :02:21.vehicles. Do you remember 13 years ago I stood outside there, December

:02:22. > :02:26.2001, and you had just come back from Kandahar and this is where you

:02:27. > :02:30.went. Your arrival to be the new leader of Afghanistan and the

:02:31. > :02:40.Taliban had just fallen. Yes, we went over there. Hello? Can we have

:02:41. > :02:42.your reaction to the news that you are the new chairman of the interim

:02:43. > :03:12.council? So it was the BBC who told you this

:03:13. > :03:29.news? A week later, Afghanistan's new

:03:30. > :03:36.leader made it to the capital. Once the fight in the Taliban in the

:03:37. > :03:43.South was over. What is your first priority, your most urgent one? The

:03:44. > :03:50.first priority is total peace and security for the people of

:03:51. > :03:57.Afghanistan. Together with that, to work very hard to provide our people

:03:58. > :04:04.as soon as possible and economic opportunity so that people earn a

:04:05. > :04:14.decent living. Also to continue to fight against terrorism, to make

:04:15. > :04:18.Afghanistan a country ruled by law. We will need help from international

:04:19. > :04:27.community the stability of Afghanistan. It was a sudden turn of

:04:28. > :04:34.fate for a man who had 20 years as a manager Dean spokesman during the

:04:35. > :04:45.war of Soviet occupation, who became a tribal chief after his father was

:04:46. > :04:53.murdered. `` mujahideen spokesman. Now Hamid Karzai symbol to the hopes

:04:54. > :04:56.of an entire generation. Suddenly there was change. Girls denied

:04:57. > :05:08.schooling by the Taliban could return to class. And Afghans could

:05:09. > :05:16.now decide their political future. In 2002, delegates descended on

:05:17. > :05:22.Kabul to attend a traditional assembly. They confirmed Hamid

:05:23. > :05:26.Karzai as leader of the year after he had been selected at a US

:05:27. > :05:35.conference. In these early, emotional moments, Afghans looked

:05:36. > :05:41.forward to a better future. Even if the men of the past, the warlords,

:05:42. > :05:43.still took up the front rows. Many Afghans asked why they were still

:05:44. > :05:50.there and still acting with impunity. There isn't a pervasive

:05:51. > :05:54.environment of fear. There are some people that may intimidate people.

:05:55. > :05:58.Human rights watch says people are literally afraid for their lives.

:05:59. > :06:03.They are wrong to say that. Some people may be afraid but the whole

:06:04. > :06:06.country is very enthusiastic. You should trust the Afghan nation, not

:06:07. > :06:21.the few outsiders who come here for a day or two. Everyone had a place

:06:22. > :06:28.in the new Afghanistan. It was Hamid Karzai's approach from the start. At

:06:29. > :06:31.the first ever popular elections in 2004, Afghans gave him a new mandate

:06:32. > :06:39.and they voted for him again in 2009. But by then doubts and

:06:40. > :06:45.discontent were setting in. So has Hamid Karzai been able to keep the

:06:46. > :06:49.promises he made to his people? We sit down together to look back at

:06:50. > :06:56.his time in power. In the past 13 years, what was your proudest

:06:57. > :07:02.moment? Well, plenty. Quite a few. Afghanistan became the home of all

:07:03. > :07:11.Afghans. We practised democracy. We voted. Education. Freedom of speech.

:07:12. > :07:18.Freedom of expression. Afghanistan's flag flying all over

:07:19. > :07:22.the world. Too many happy children. But sadly also too many children

:07:23. > :07:27.that became sad and lost their families and their own lives. You

:07:28. > :07:31.don't feel you have failed the Afghan people? I have served where I

:07:32. > :07:34.could in a great possible way. Where I have not been able to provide the

:07:35. > :07:39.Afghan people with what they needed, I hope the next President

:07:40. > :07:43.will. But so many Afghans are disappointed. When you leave power,

:07:44. > :07:51.Afghanistan will have an economy that is worsening. Taliban threats

:07:52. > :07:53.are still here and rising. Afghanistan for the past three years

:07:54. > :07:59.has been described as the most corrupt country in the world. Well,

:08:00. > :08:06.we still have problems. We are better country but we are still a

:08:07. > :08:12.poor country, among the poorest countries in the world. We have a

:08:13. > :08:16.long journey ahead of us as a nation to complete and the Taliban threat

:08:17. > :08:20.will be there and we will continue to seek peace. Some of the job is

:08:21. > :08:30.done and some of it is undone and left for the next President to be

:08:31. > :08:41.done. When Hamid Karzai took on this job, Afghanistan was broke. Even a

:08:42. > :08:45.new currency was launched. In 2002, we watched the President record a

:08:46. > :08:51.video to introduce the new Afghan notes. So did his top advisers,

:08:52. > :08:55.including the two men now vying to succeed him. Afghans asked where did

:08:56. > :09:04.all the money go? Billions in aid are said to have been lost to

:09:05. > :09:09.corruption. And in 2010, Kabul bank nearly collapsed, the place where

:09:10. > :09:14.poor Afghans were depositing their money made hefty loans to the

:09:15. > :09:17.well`connected, including the President's own family. Afghans say

:09:18. > :09:21.that one of the biggest problems has not been foreign forces but

:09:22. > :09:25.corruption and you have not done enough personally to fight against

:09:26. > :09:30.corruption. Your country is now regarded as the most corrupt in the

:09:31. > :09:39.world. Why did you look the other way? Depends on who you talk to. The

:09:40. > :09:45.surveys say it. Surveys by who? Western organisations, sure, they

:09:46. > :09:52.say that. So he refused to recognise corruption in Afghanistan? I don't

:09:53. > :09:56.refuse. Corruption is there in Afghanistan but who is behind it?

:09:57. > :10:02.Who brought the private security firms? Not Afghans. Who funded the

:10:03. > :10:06.private security firms? The British and Americans. Who brought in

:10:07. > :10:10.billions of dollars into those private security organisations that

:10:11. > :10:15.not only brought corruption but in security to Afghanistan? You blame

:10:16. > :10:20.everybody else. As the President you will not take responsibility for not

:10:21. > :10:24.taking action? Hang on. I have things to say. Who brought the

:10:25. > :10:31.contract? The Afghan Government did not bring any contracts. I did not

:10:32. > :10:35.sign any contract. It was the United States that did that and Afghanistan

:10:36. > :10:39.cannot be blamed for that. Of course Afghanistan has a complaint there.

:10:40. > :10:45.Afghanistan is responsible, my Government is responsible and I will

:10:46. > :10:46.take responsibility for the corruption in the day`to`day

:10:47. > :10:54.administration and delivery of services. The big money is neither

:10:55. > :10:58.ours nor did we have control of it. When outsiders look at the wealth

:10:59. > :11:02.that has been accumulated by members of your Government, by prominent

:11:03. > :11:07.people in your country, they ask how that can happen when so many people

:11:08. > :11:10.are living in poverty. They did not earn that through Government

:11:11. > :11:15.salaries. Exactly. Where did it come from? From contracts. Why did you

:11:16. > :11:24.not hold any of these people accountable? I did. A lot has been

:11:25. > :11:34.done. Hamid Karzai began as a leader who wanted to be close to his

:11:35. > :11:43.people. So close his admirers and would`be assassins could reach him.

:11:44. > :11:49.We filmed these exclusive pictures in Kandahar less than a year after

:11:50. > :12:00.he came to power. The Taliban were blamed for this attempt. They came

:12:01. > :12:07.close. I did not even know who was firing where so... I am safe and

:12:08. > :12:15.sound. Do you feel shaken? No, I am fine. I expect things like that. I

:12:16. > :12:21.have been through it before. Attacks by the Taliban and other armed

:12:22. > :12:28.groups have grown over the years. In strength and sophistication. Suicide

:12:29. > :12:33.bombings are reaching even the heart of the heavily protected capital.

:12:34. > :12:38.Despite efforts at peace talks, Taliban violence is killing more and

:12:39. > :12:42.more Afghans. Many Afghans are worried that once foreign combat

:12:43. > :12:46.troops leave that you will be in the same situation as Iraq, and in your

:12:47. > :12:52.case it will be the rise of the Taliban, that they could make a

:12:53. > :12:56.comeback. Do you also share that concern? No, I don't. The Afghan

:12:57. > :13:04.Taliban want peace. They are in contact with us every day. In my

:13:05. > :13:13.opinion... If they want peace why are they continuing to attack the

:13:14. > :13:17.vast majority of civilians? In my opinion, the Afghan Taliban want

:13:18. > :13:28.peace and I know this. I also know that peace in Afghanistan, to the

:13:29. > :13:35.extent of power here, is in the hands of Pakistan. If they cooperate

:13:36. > :13:39.with us for peace, we will be peaceful. The Taliban alone will not

:13:40. > :13:44.be able to bring peace to us because there is a different hand at play

:13:45. > :13:54.and that and is not the Taliban. Worth their missed opportunities to

:13:55. > :14:01.talk to the Taliban? `` were there? I worked very, very hard. No Afghan

:14:02. > :14:06.President has ever done so much to bring our allies, the Americans and

:14:07. > :14:11.others, to work for peace with us. Somehow they didn't want it. They

:14:12. > :14:17.didn't want it? The Taliban didn't want it? Nobody wanted it. The

:14:18. > :14:22.Taliban, as I told you before, they do want peace, they are just not in

:14:23. > :14:26.charge. They said they did not want to talk to you because they called

:14:27. > :14:34.to an American puppet. But they do talk to me. A spokesman says that

:14:35. > :14:46.and we don't know where they speak from. The Afghan Taliban are in

:14:47. > :14:49.contact with me every day. International forces came to

:14:50. > :14:56.Afghanistan after the Taliban was toppled. First to Kabul and then

:14:57. > :15:06.across the country. I have a son his age, his size. At their peak in

:15:07. > :15:14.2011, US`led NATO forces amounted to 140,000 troops from 50 nations. But

:15:15. > :15:22.the Taliban, with sanctuaries in neighbouring Pakistan, still

:15:23. > :15:26.exhibited strength. From his first years in power, Hamid Karzai urged

:15:27. > :15:30.his allies to tackle terrorism at its source. It has been one of the

:15:31. > :15:35.main issues that strained his relationship with Washington, almost

:15:36. > :15:42.to breaking point. When you accused the West of not wanting to carry out

:15:43. > :15:46.a genuine war on terror, a war against violence, they find that

:15:47. > :15:49.incomprehensible, that she would not believe they were here because they

:15:50. > :15:55.are also suffering from this war on terror. They are suffering, as I

:15:56. > :16:03.said earlier, as I said jawing this interview, `` juror in this

:16:04. > :16:09.interview, the war on terror was not to be found in the Afghan villages.

:16:10. > :16:15.They agreed with me time and again that, yes, there are sanctuaries

:16:16. > :16:18.beyond Afghanistan, training places beyond Afghanistan, and that is

:16:19. > :16:23.where the troubles are. They never tried to go and address that. So

:16:24. > :16:34.that makes my conviction that there was no real effort at a genuine

:16:35. > :16:37.campaign against terrorism. The West finds it outrageous that you would

:16:38. > :16:43.want to cause instability across the region. The consequences are what we

:16:44. > :16:49.see. Our intention is a different issue. I can't say whether they

:16:50. > :16:54.intended it this way or not. The intentions are hidden from us. But I

:16:55. > :16:58.see the results. The result is that there is a lot more instability.

:16:59. > :17:04.There is a lot more violence across the region will stop I hope that can

:17:05. > :17:10.be reversed and I hope that I am found out to be wrong one day by the

:17:11. > :17:17.West, by their good work to bring more stability to the region, and to

:17:18. > :17:21.the entire international community. Afghanistan and Iraq are different

:17:22. > :17:24.countries but both had billions of dollars of investment from the

:17:25. > :17:27.United States and other countries and both have significant training

:17:28. > :17:32.of their Armed Forces. What we are seeing in Iraq is that it is just

:17:33. > :17:38.crumbling. There is a risk it could also happen here. Iraq was a solid

:17:39. > :17:45.country before the Americans went in. Exactly. It's Afghanistan in a

:17:46. > :17:49.weaker position? Afghanistan has been a solid country for thousands

:17:50. > :17:58.of years. Foreign forces have not brought instability to Afghanistan.

:17:59. > :18:05.`` brought stability. Afghanistan will be kept by the Afghans as it

:18:06. > :18:09.was in the past kept by Afghans. Yes, we need international support

:18:10. > :18:18.where we do not have the means to sustain ourselves. That is welcome

:18:19. > :18:21.and for that we are grateful. For a president who promised his people

:18:22. > :18:28.peace there is still much suffering, so many civilian casualties. He has

:18:29. > :18:34.been powerless to stop it and it pains him.

:18:35. > :19:16.And now the Karzai years are coming to an end. As he begins the day he

:19:17. > :19:23.asks his aides for the latest on the vote count in the presidential

:19:24. > :19:28.election. Are you worried that the peaceful transfer of power could be

:19:29. > :19:31.at risk. Tensions are already rising with both sides alleging there was

:19:32. > :19:40.fraud. There are even accusations against you. The elections, as you

:19:41. > :19:44.know, all over the world, they have emotions involved. Afghanistan will

:19:45. > :19:50.be no exception. There will be emotions involved, there will be

:19:51. > :19:53.demands of the election body and certainly on the president of the

:19:54. > :20:01.country. I understand that perfectly well. And we will deal with those

:20:02. > :20:08.difficulties and those emotions as they arise, as they come across our

:20:09. > :20:16.way. But we should make sure, all of us, that the vote of the Afghan

:20:17. > :20:22.people is respected. And good vote is separated from bad vote. Where

:20:23. > :20:28.there are a irregularities, they are addressed. 13 years ago Hamid Karzai

:20:29. > :20:35.took the world by storm with his charm and charisma and that

:20:36. > :20:42.distinctive silk cloak. Rebuilding a shattered land turned out to be far

:20:43. > :20:46.more difficult than anyone expected. Mr President, you say Afghanistan

:20:47. > :20:56.has changed, but what about you? How have you changed since you came here

:20:57. > :21:06.on September the 13th 2001. More experienced, more realistic and

:21:07. > :21:16.hardened. Baked. Baked? Baked into becoming hard. Exhausted? Fed up?

:21:17. > :21:22.Exhausted, yes. Fed up, no. What will you do with when you leave

:21:23. > :21:26.office? I will be a retired president, stay in my country. The

:21:27. > :21:30.government has built me a very nice house and I will keep advising

:21:31. > :21:37.Afghans to have good relations with the West, good relations with

:21:38. > :21:41.America, to learn from what they have offered the world, to educate

:21:42. > :21:47.our children. But to sustain ourselves and stand on our own feet,

:21:48. > :21:53.not be reliant on anybody but on our own hard work and toil. Many say you

:21:54. > :21:57.will leave the office but you will not quite leave power. You will

:21:58. > :22:01.still have influence and live right next door to your office. Influence

:22:02. > :22:13.is one thing but power is another thing. I was not interested in power

:22:14. > :22:21.even when I was a president. I did not exercise the same power as

:22:22. > :22:26.someone else would. Power is not a good thing for me. Influence is

:22:27. > :22:30.different. It is accepted. If the Afghans feel I have contributions to

:22:31. > :22:35.make to the country to make it better, to provide advice to the

:22:36. > :22:38.next president, I will be there. If the next president asks me for

:22:39. > :22:44.advice I will offer it. I will back him and support him. I will be a

:22:45. > :22:52.loyal subject to the next president. Does it hurt you that you went from

:22:53. > :22:57.being the darling of the West, to now being in a situation where in

:22:58. > :23:01.the West many find it very difficult to say anything good about you? I

:23:02. > :23:07.would like to be the darling of the Afghan people. I'm an Afghan, the

:23:08. > :23:10.president of Afghanistan, I will be living in Afghanistan. I would like

:23:11. > :23:14.to be the darling of the Afghan people, I would like to be liked by

:23:15. > :23:18.the Afghan people. I would like to be seen as having served the cause

:23:19. > :23:24.of the Afghan people, having spoken up for them. I might not even visit

:23:25. > :23:32.the West if the need to does not arise. I respect the West. It is a

:23:33. > :23:36.great society. While considering myself a citizen of the world, a

:23:37. > :23:45.fellow human being, and in the category of... You know... Of

:23:46. > :23:49.belonging, I first belonged to Afghanistan, and then to this

:23:50. > :23:56.region, and then perhaps to the world. What is your greatest regret?

:23:57. > :24:07.My greatest regret... There would be many, many... Do you wish you'd done

:24:08. > :24:12.things differently? Lack of peace is a regret I will take with me. I wish

:24:13. > :24:18.Afghanistan had peace. I wish there was not so much loss of life in

:24:19. > :24:19.Afghanistan and I wish the war on terror was fought genuinely in the

:24:20. > :24:34.right place. For many years Hamid Karzai has had

:24:35. > :24:35.a routine. Within these palace walls, surrounded by aids and

:24:36. > :24:52.security barriers. Mr President, it is so beautiful

:24:53. > :24:55.here, some might say it is the most beautiful prison in the world. You

:24:56. > :24:59.have hardly been able to leave the palace. It is not a prison. It is a

:25:00. > :25:11.house. President Karzai, for nearly 13

:25:12. > :25:16.years you took care of an entire nation and now it is time to take

:25:17. > :25:19.care of your family. Sure. She should go to a good school and study

:25:20. > :26:08.and learn the languages. STUDIO: Your impression of this

:26:09. > :26:12.weekend's weather will depend on where you live. Contrast today under

:26:13. > :26:15.clear skies for the east of the UK, and it has been warming up a lot.

:26:16. > :26:16.Further west we have