:00:20. > :00:25.This is a very difficult time of year and it is the 10-year
:00:26. > :00:30.anniversary. Obviously an anniversary you hoped he would never
:00:31. > :00:38.see. Yes. I mean, I never thought we would still be in this situation, so
:00:39. > :00:41.far along the line. It is a huge amount of time. In some ways it
:00:42. > :00:46.feels like it was only a few weeks ago and in other ways it has felt
:00:47. > :00:52.really long. But it is a hard marker of time. You refer to it on your
:00:53. > :00:55.website as stolen time. Yes, it is time we should have had with
:00:56. > :01:00.Madeleine. We should have been a family of five all that time. Yes,
:01:01. > :01:04.it does feel stolen. And you could never have imagined ten years ago
:01:05. > :01:10.that you would still be in this situation. I think the situation is
:01:11. > :01:17.that we tried everything in our power to not have a long, protracted
:01:18. > :01:21.missing persons case like this. It is devastating. Early on I threw
:01:22. > :01:28.myself into trying to do everything we could to help find her. Obviously
:01:29. > :01:32.that hasn't worked yet but we are still looking for her. That is the
:01:33. > :01:40.most important thing. There is still hope. And how are you doing as a
:01:41. > :01:47.family? The pair of you? I think we have a new normality really,
:01:48. > :01:51.particularly probably over the last five years, since the Metropolitan
:01:52. > :01:55.Police actually started the investigation. It has taken huge
:01:56. > :02:00.pressure off us individually and as a family. Because before that you
:02:01. > :02:03.are trying to fight the case yourselves, trying to encourage the
:02:04. > :02:08.police to look for Madeleine and get the Portuguese police involved. Yes.
:02:09. > :02:12.I think the key thing was the injustice of it and after the
:02:13. > :02:16.initial Portuguese investigation closed, essentially nobody other
:02:17. > :02:20.than us was actually doing anything proactively to try and find
:02:21. > :02:25.Madeleine, and I think every parent can understand that what you want
:02:26. > :02:29.and what we have aspired to is to have all the reasonable lines of
:02:30. > :02:32.inquiry followed to their logical conclusion as far as you can do
:02:33. > :02:39.that. And that is incredibly frustrating. You talked at the time
:02:40. > :02:45.about what a blow that was. It was terrible, it was horrible, and as
:02:46. > :02:51.much as we tried and we were fortunate to have so much donations
:02:52. > :02:55.into Madeleine's Fund and to use that to try and investigate, your
:02:56. > :02:58.hands are tied. You don't have the powers that law enforcement have
:02:59. > :03:03.got. How much of a difference has it made? For the last five years the
:03:04. > :03:07.police have been actively investigating. Absolutely huge and I
:03:08. > :03:13.can't emphasise enough just what a massive burden that has lifted from
:03:14. > :03:19.us and those around us and also knowing that the lines of
:03:20. > :03:24.investigation are being pursued. The inspector commissioner spoke during
:03:25. > :03:27.the week, I know. A lot of those lines have been taken to a
:03:28. > :03:33.conclusion. That is almost as important as finding who is actually
:03:34. > :03:38.responsible. But knowing those lines have been shut down. The police have
:03:39. > :03:43.talked about one significantly that they are still pursuing. Can you
:03:44. > :03:46.tell me anything about that? The investigation is very much in the
:03:47. > :03:51.hands of the Metropolitan Police. There are clearly ongoing inquiries
:03:52. > :03:57.and from our perspective that is the important thing. They have managed
:03:58. > :04:02.to pull so much together and sift through so much information. Now we
:04:03. > :04:07.seem to be on several lines of inquiry rather than tens or
:04:08. > :04:12.hundreds. There four police working on it full-time. You know there have
:04:13. > :04:19.been criticisms that the police should not be spending so much money
:04:20. > :04:23.still so many years on this case. I think that criticism is quite unfair
:04:24. > :04:25.actually. I know it is one single missing child, but there are
:04:26. > :04:33.millions of British tourists that go to the Algarve year-on-year and
:04:34. > :04:38.essentially you have got the British subject, the subject of a crime, and
:04:39. > :04:44.other crimes came to light following Madeleine's abduction that involved
:04:45. > :04:49.British tourists, so I think prosecuting to a reasonable end is
:04:50. > :04:52.what you would expect. But of course it doesn't happen. Sadly there are
:04:53. > :04:59.many children that go missing and the resources are not deployed. I
:05:00. > :05:03.think others within law enforcement have made it very clear that this
:05:04. > :05:08.type of strange abduction is exceptionally rare actually and we
:05:09. > :05:12.need to put it into perspective. It is partly why Madeleine's case has
:05:13. > :05:17.attracted so much attention, thrown in with many other ingredients. This
:05:18. > :05:25.type of abduction is exceptionally rare. One of the police officers in
:05:26. > :05:29.Portugal has been a thorn in your side for many years. He was thrown
:05:30. > :05:33.off investigation but then he wrote the book and he presented a
:05:34. > :05:36.documentary presenting a view of what happened to Madeleine which
:05:37. > :05:43.implicate you and you thought it through the courts. At the moment,
:05:44. > :05:48.you have lost and he has won. Is this the end for you now? Are you
:05:49. > :05:52.going to continue to fight him? I think the short answer is we have
:05:53. > :05:57.got to because the last judgment I think is terrible. So we will be
:05:58. > :06:02.appealing. We haven't launched that yet but it will be going to the
:06:03. > :06:05.European courts. I think it is important to say that when we
:06:06. > :06:09.launched the action it was eight years ago and the circumstances were
:06:10. > :06:13.very different. We felt there was real damage being done to the search
:06:14. > :06:17.for Madeleine at that time, particularly in Portugal. He was
:06:18. > :06:24.effectively suggesting that you had disposed of Madeleine. People need
:06:25. > :06:27.to realise this, and the Assistant Commissioner has said it again this
:06:28. > :06:31.week at the Portuguese have said it and the final report has said it,
:06:32. > :06:36.there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead. And the prosecutor said
:06:37. > :06:43.there is no evidence that we were involved in any crime. And really
:06:44. > :06:47.saying anything opposite is not justice. It is not justice for
:06:48. > :06:52.Madeleine. I have found it tall incomprehensible, to be honest. It
:06:53. > :06:55.has been very upsetting and it has caused a lot of frustration and
:06:56. > :06:59.anger, which is a really negative emotion. I think we just need to
:07:00. > :07:06.channel that. I just have to hope that in the long run justice will
:07:07. > :07:11.prevail and all will be well. I think for us personally but for the
:07:12. > :07:16.rest of the family as well. The children? Yes, and our wider family,
:07:17. > :07:21.our own parents, brothers and sisters etc. We have got to
:07:22. > :07:24.challenge it and we will do. The other thing that struck me when I
:07:25. > :07:32.was looking through various internet search engines before I did this
:07:33. > :07:38.interview was quite how much cruel, distressing, horribly tasteless
:07:39. > :07:42.commentary there is out there about you, about Madeleine, people giving
:07:43. > :07:45.their opinions about what they think happened, even though they don't
:07:46. > :07:54.know you and they were nowhere near and they can't possibly know. How do
:07:55. > :07:59.you deal with that? I think social media has huge pros and huge ponds.
:08:00. > :08:02.On the downside, with all that has been written, I guess we protect
:08:03. > :08:07.ourselves really. We don't go there, to be honest. We are aware of things
:08:08. > :08:14.that get said, because people alert us to it. I guess our worry is for
:08:15. > :08:16.our children. Of course. Because they are now 12. They are at an age
:08:17. > :08:22.where social media becomes increasingly important. We don't
:08:23. > :08:26.want to dwell on the negative aspects too long but I think in this
:08:27. > :08:31.era of fake news, it is extremely topical, and I think people need to
:08:32. > :08:36.think twice before they write, and effects it has on it. Certainly I
:08:37. > :08:41.know ourselves with our own experience both in the mainstream
:08:42. > :08:45.media and also on the internet, we are just not going to believe that
:08:46. > :08:51.until I see evidence of it, convincing. I am sure there is a
:08:52. > :08:54.very small minority of people who spend their time doing it but it has
:08:55. > :09:01.totally inhibited what we do. Personally we don't use social media
:09:02. > :09:04.although we have used it in Madeleine's campaign. But for our
:09:05. > :09:08.twins who are growing up in an era when mobile technology is used all
:09:09. > :09:12.the time, we don't want them not to be able to use it, the same way that
:09:13. > :09:21.their peers do. How do you protect them? The most important thing, and
:09:22. > :09:25.we had some excellent advice earlier on, is that we have been as open
:09:26. > :09:31.with them as we can. We have told them about things and also that
:09:32. > :09:38.people are writing things that are simply not true. They need to be
:09:39. > :09:45.aware of that. They are not really at the age where they are, you know,
:09:46. > :09:53.on the internet and other websites. But they soon will be. They are
:09:54. > :09:58.coming to that stage and they are with their friends etc. We have
:09:59. > :10:03.tried to educate them as well because it is not just ask that have
:10:04. > :10:07.fallen victim to the downside of social media. Does that shock you?
:10:08. > :10:10.It shocked me a little things that people say. I think it has been
:10:11. > :10:16.shocking, that aspect of human nature that I hadn't really
:10:17. > :10:22.encountered before. I think it is so far from how you would behave or
:10:23. > :10:26.people that you know would behave. It is striking. And quite hard
:10:27. > :10:34.really to get your head round. Why would somebody write that? Why would
:10:35. > :10:38.somebody add to somebody's upset? Why would somebody in a position of
:10:39. > :10:44.ignorance to something like that? We have seen the worst and the best of
:10:45. > :10:48.human nature. It has been a personal experience, rather than on the
:10:49. > :10:52.internet, and that has been overwhelmingly to see the positive
:10:53. > :10:57.side of human nature and we need to remember that. We have had excellent
:10:58. > :11:01.support over the last ten years and now we are getting media attention
:11:02. > :11:04.on the tenth anniversary, we are starting to see that again. I think
:11:05. > :11:10.it is true. Social media, whatever, because it is so awful and
:11:11. > :11:17.upsetting, it does kind of stand out and become more of a talking point
:11:18. > :11:19.really. Actually the main thing that we have experienced is the goodness
:11:20. > :11:26.of people and the support that we have had over ten years which has
:11:27. > :11:34.not wavered over all that time. How different is your life now to the
:11:35. > :11:39.life that when you have a child you consciously or subconsciously
:11:40. > :11:44.imagine? How different is your life now to what you must have imagined
:11:45. > :11:52.all those years ago? That is a hard one because it is such a long time.
:11:53. > :11:58.Before Madeleine was taken we felt we had achieved the perfect nuclear
:11:59. > :12:06.family of five. We had that for a short period. I suppose it is almost
:12:07. > :12:11.the same way as if your child becomes ill or dies, like many other
:12:12. > :12:16.families have suffered, then your world vision is altered and you have
:12:17. > :12:21.got to adapt. I think that is a theme that speaking to other people
:12:22. > :12:25.who have gone through terribly traumatic processors with children
:12:26. > :12:30.and other loved ones, that is something that gradually happens,
:12:31. > :12:35.and you adapt, and you have a new normality. Unfortunately for us, the
:12:36. > :12:40.new normality at the minute is a family of four. But we have adapted
:12:41. > :12:46.and that is important. As we have said about the investigation, the
:12:47. > :12:51.last five years in particular have allowed us to really properly devote
:12:52. > :12:57.time to looking after the twins and ourselves and of course carry on
:12:58. > :13:06.with our work. At some point you have got to realise that time is not
:13:07. > :13:11.frozen. I think both of us realised that we have owed it to the twins to
:13:12. > :13:14.make sure that their life is as fulfilling as they deserve. We have
:13:15. > :13:19.certainly tried our best to achieve that. Certainly on the face of it
:13:20. > :13:24.you appear to have stayed so strong as a family unit. I wonder how you
:13:25. > :13:29.have managed to do that. It is so easy to blame each other when a
:13:30. > :13:34.cataclysm befalls a family. That is such an easy trap to fall into. I
:13:35. > :13:39.don't think there has ever been any blame, fortunately. I think what
:13:40. > :13:42.people do say is you don't realise how strong you are until you have no
:13:43. > :13:50.option and I think that is very true. Obviously massive events like
:13:51. > :13:56.this cause a lot of reaction, a lot of trauma and upset, but ultimately,
:13:57. > :13:59.you have got to keep going, especially when you have got other
:14:00. > :14:03.children involved. Some of that is subconscious. I think your mind and
:14:04. > :14:09.your body take over to a certain extent. But if you can't change
:14:10. > :14:13.something immediately, you have got to go with it and do the best that
:14:14. > :14:20.you can, and that is all we have tried to do. As Gerry said, one of
:14:21. > :14:27.our goals, ultimately finding Madeleine, but to ensure that Sean
:14:28. > :14:30.and Amelie have a happy and fulfilling life and we will do
:14:31. > :14:35.everything we can to ensure that. Life for you has changed in
:14:36. > :14:39.different ways, Kate. You were a GP and he stopped working and you
:14:40. > :14:43.haven't gone back to full-time work. I assume the idea of someone else
:14:44. > :14:47.looking after your children seemed unthinkable after what happened. You
:14:48. > :14:50.just needed to be with the children and just be there. Certainly
:14:51. > :14:56.initially, absolutely. The kids weren't even in school. I wanted to
:14:57. > :15:01.be there. I didn't want to let them out of my sight. There was obviously
:15:02. > :15:04.a lot going on, a lot of campaign work, a lot of emotion. I am
:15:05. > :15:09.actually back at work now. I am doing something different to what I
:15:10. > :15:12.was doing. What are you doing now? I have back into medicine but a
:15:13. > :15:21.different area, not general practice. That obviously takes up
:15:22. > :15:29.some time. That was a big step as well, to re-establishing as normal a
:15:30. > :15:33.life as possible. Life is busy. I think in some ways... I don't know
:15:34. > :15:36.if this is personality or coping strategy, but sometimes it is a
:15:37. > :15:44.us going. We don't dwell too much on us going. We don't dwell too much on
:15:45. > :15:48.things unnecessarily. I think there is a self protection thing there as
:15:49. > :15:55.well. We do have a very full life and as normal as we can make it. How
:15:56. > :15:59.much do you make Madeleine are part of that? Do you talk about
:16:00. > :16:05.Madeleine? Is she a name that crops up every day? Yes. She is always
:16:06. > :16:13.part of our life. There are photographs around the house.
:16:14. > :16:16.Obviously at this time of year, then we can't even have conversations
:16:17. > :16:21.that don't involve her. The kids know we are doing an interview today
:16:22. > :16:28.and the anniversary is coming up. She is still part of it, but
:16:29. > :16:32.obviously... I think every kind of event that we do, whether it be a
:16:33. > :16:39.birthday or family occasion or even an achievement or something, that is
:16:40. > :16:43.kind of when you really feel her absence. It is slightly different to
:16:44. > :16:47.how it was in the early days when everything we were doing was to find
:16:48. > :16:56.Madeleine. Now we are having to get on and live our lives as well. It is
:16:57. > :17:02.not that any date she is not there, if you know what I mean. Last time
:17:03. > :17:06.we talk, you are still buying birthday and Christmas presents for
:17:07. > :17:11.Madeleine. Are you still doing that? We still do that. I couldn't not.
:17:12. > :17:16.You go to the shops and you think Madeleine would be this age now and
:17:17. > :17:24.you think what would she want? I do. I have got to think about what age
:17:25. > :17:28.she is and something that whenever we find her will still be
:17:29. > :17:32.appropriate. A lot of thought goes into it. I couldn't not. She is
:17:33. > :17:37.still our daughter and she will always be our daughter. Kate always
:17:38. > :17:41.does the present buying. I always do the present buying and there will be
:17:42. > :17:51.another one coming up in the next few weeks. Madeleine would be how
:17:52. > :17:58.old? 14. And this anniversary, how will you get through that day? Like
:17:59. > :18:05.I put in my message on a website, every day is another day without
:18:06. > :18:08.Madeleine. It is just that number, that 10-year mark, that makes it
:18:09. > :18:12.more significant, I think, because it is a reminder of how much time
:18:13. > :18:16.has gone by and obviously ten is a big number. I think we will get by
:18:17. > :18:21.as we have any other year, really, surrounded by family and friends.
:18:22. > :18:28.Obviously we will be there remembering Madeleine as we always
:18:29. > :18:34.have. I think the day and the poignancy of it, we don't tend to go
:18:35. > :18:38.back because it is so draining. But inevitably on anniversaries and on
:18:39. > :18:44.her birthday, they are by far the hardest days, by far. I think it is
:18:45. > :18:48.important though, because despite how difficult these days are, just
:18:49. > :18:52.keeping in mind actually how much progress we have made. Nothing is
:18:53. > :18:58.ever going to be quick enough from our point of view. But the last five
:18:59. > :19:05.years, we have come a long way. And there is progress. There are some
:19:06. > :19:10.very credible lines of inquiry that the police are working on. And while
:19:11. > :19:15.there is no evidence to give us any negative news, that hope is still
:19:16. > :19:20.there. It really is there in your hearts? The hope that one day you
:19:21. > :19:23.will be reunited with your daughter. No parent is going to give up on
:19:24. > :19:31.their child unless they know for certain the child is dead. We just
:19:32. > :19:35.don't have any evidence. My hope of Madeleine being out there is no less
:19:36. > :19:38.than it was almost ten years ago. Apart from those first 48 hours,
:19:39. > :19:45.nothing actually has changed since then. The difficult thing has always
:19:46. > :19:48.been how would we find her? You are relying on the police doing
:19:49. > :19:53.everything they can and you are relying on somebody with information
:19:54. > :19:57.coming forward. I think that is so important. Everyone thinks what
:19:58. > :20:00.could have happened but some of the scenarios with other people who have
:20:01. > :20:05.been abducted and kept, they are just so unbelievable that you think
:20:06. > :20:10.how could that have happened? That is probably what is going to happen
:20:11. > :20:17.with Madeleine's case as well. People will say it is incredible. We
:20:18. > :20:21.just know. The Metropolitan Police underlined that last week. You can't
:20:22. > :20:24.apply normal logic to someone who commits a crime like this. You try
:20:25. > :20:28.and think surely if they have done that, they would have done that, but
:20:29. > :20:36.you can't. But you must also look at cases like the case of Ben Needham
:20:37. > :20:43.who went missing in recent decades past. It is interesting that the
:20:44. > :20:47.people who have got the most experience, the national centre for
:20:48. > :20:51.exploited children, in the US, one of the earlier things that stuck
:20:52. > :20:56.with me ever since, the younger at the time a child is taken, the more
:20:57. > :21:01.likely they have been taken to be kept, and that could equally apply
:21:02. > :21:03.to Ben Needham, who was younger than Madeleine, and that is something
:21:04. > :21:09.that we have got to factor in actually. It could be a relief but
:21:10. > :21:15.in another way it is an unconscionable thought for you. Of
:21:16. > :21:21.course. It is ten years. How much she has changed, what age she would
:21:22. > :21:30.be now. I think the key thing is to find Madeleine. If she is still
:21:31. > :21:37.alive, recognise who she is or we need to find the person or people
:21:38. > :21:48.responsible for taking her. You must have imagined over the years if you
:21:49. > :21:53.saw her what he would say to her. Yes, I think I try not to go there
:21:54. > :22:02.too often, to be honest. It is one of those real bittersweet kind of
:22:03. > :22:08.thoughts. Ten years is a long time. But ultimately we are her mum and
:22:09. > :22:12.dad and she is our daughter and he has got a brother and sister,
:22:13. > :22:19.grandparents, lots of family and friends, so it would be absolutely
:22:20. > :22:27.fine. It would be... It is beyond words, really. We will cope with
:22:28. > :22:32.anything. I know that doing this interview was something you thought
:22:33. > :22:34.long and hard about. It is not something you particularly want to
:22:35. > :22:39.do and certainly not something you were looking forward to. What do you
:22:40. > :22:45.hope by doing an interview like this? What do you hope that people
:22:46. > :22:53.will hear? What is the message you want to get out? That there is still
:22:54. > :22:56.hope, really. There isn't any appeal. Most of the media we have
:22:57. > :23:01.done in recent years has been around that and this is unusual. We are
:23:02. > :23:06.marking the anniversary. I think it has been good for the general public
:23:07. > :23:11.to hear the police say there is no evidence that she is dead and that
:23:12. > :23:15.there is an active investigation and there is still hope. Certainly from
:23:16. > :23:22.my point of view, somebody knows what has happened. And we have had
:23:23. > :23:26.so many supporters who are still with us, people that we don't know
:23:27. > :23:27.are still there, and I guess I just want them to be reassured that there
:23:28. > :23:33.is progress being made. You know, it is progress being made. You know, it
:23:34. > :23:37.might not be as quick as we want, but there is real progress being
:23:38. > :23:41.made. We need to take heart from that and we have just got to go with
:23:42. > :23:46.the process and follow it through, the process and follow it through,
:23:47. > :23:49.whatever it takes, as long as it takes. There is still hope that we
:23:50. > :23:52.can find Madeleine. If you do find Madeleine you will be able to show
:23:53. > :23:57.her everything you did to try and find her and you never gave up.
:23:58. > :24:01.Absolutely. I guess for her just knowing there have been so many
:24:02. > :24:09.people willing her home. It is so important.