0:00:11 > 0:00:16I am here at Government House at the Royal military Academy outside of
0:00:16 > 0:00:19London with the French president, Emmanuel Macron, has just been
0:00:19 > 0:00:24holding talks with the British Minister Theresa May about defence
0:00:24 > 0:00:27and immigration, of course, in the context of Brexit. After those talks
0:00:27 > 0:00:32were over, I sat down with Emmanuel Macron to discuss those issues, but
0:00:32 > 0:00:36also friends's role in the wider world with China and, of course,
0:00:36 > 0:00:37with President Donald Trump.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53Mr President, we're sitting here at centres at the heart of British
0:00:53 > 0:00:58military culture and to have just come to a military agreement. Can I
0:00:58 > 0:01:04start by asking you what you agreed with Theresa May?We agreed with a
0:01:04 > 0:01:06series of cooperation. Cooperation with
0:01:06 > 0:01:06series of cooperation. Cooperation with
0:01:06 > 0:01:06series of cooperation. Cooperation with
0:01:06 > 0:01:07series of cooperation. Cooperation with
0:01:07 > 0:01:09series of cooperation. Cooperation with future projects. New capacities
0:01:09 > 0:01:16for new weapons in the future which represents very huge investments. It
0:01:16 > 0:01:21is very much important because we have a relationship in terms
0:01:21 > 0:01:27defence. The Russians are teaming up a new weapons all the time and there
0:01:27 > 0:01:29is a different east or what's?
0:01:31 > 0:01:36Not to sit up and use. We have a series of security issues.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40Obviously, we have security issues coming from the east, but we have to
0:01:40 > 0:01:47do with the Middle Eastas in Africa, the war against terrorism.
0:01:47 > 0:01:53In terms of capacities, and a series of new weapons, that is for a much
0:01:53 > 0:01:58important promised strategic and personal point of view. We decided
0:01:58 > 0:02:03on our side to commit ourselves in 2019 for cooperation in Estonia. In
0:02:03 > 0:02:07the framework of Nato. That is a series of very concrete cooperation
0:02:07 > 0:02:12on the short run because we have the same vision of security and
0:02:12 > 0:02:18collective...Let me ask about the wider picture. Do you think it's
0:02:18 > 0:02:22possible Theresa May's words for Britain to have a deep and special
0:02:22 > 0:02:27relationship with the European Union after Brexit?I do hope. I think it
0:02:27 > 0:02:34will be good for the EU and for the UK.She said a deep relationship. If
0:02:34 > 0:02:37the UK... I imagine your if the UK is going to be a member of the
0:02:37 > 0:02:41customs union with a market or except the four freedoms, he can't
0:02:41 > 0:02:46be that deep.It will beat by definition lest deep. It will be by
0:02:46 > 0:02:53definition must defend today because the deepest possible -- last deep
0:02:53 > 0:02:56down today because the deepest possible... Got to be fair with
0:02:56 > 0:03:03people. As he decided to leave, you cannot be part of the single market.
0:03:03 > 0:03:09In punch and of the nature of the negotiation, you can have some
0:03:09 > 0:03:14deeper relations than others. We have a deeper relation with Norway
0:03:14 > 0:03:20than the one we have with Canada. It depends on the outcome of the
0:03:20 > 0:03:24negotiation, but for sure, except if you change your mind, you will not
0:03:24 > 0:03:32be part of the single market as you will not be part of the European
0:03:32 > 0:03:35Union.In concrete terms, let's talk about what that might mean. For
0:03:35 > 0:03:40instance, there are a lot of people in this country who say not much of
0:03:40 > 0:03:46the British economy is directly trading with the EU. That's could
0:03:46 > 0:03:50diverge, but bits of the British economy that are related to be you
0:03:50 > 0:03:53could converge. We have a sophisticated bespoke a deal for
0:03:53 > 0:03:56Britain. He said in the past you could have Canada or you can have
0:03:56 > 0:04:00Norway, but you can't have your own special deal. Is that really fair
0:04:00 > 0:04:05given how long Britain has been part of the EU?Is not a question of
0:04:05 > 0:04:10being fair or unfair. It's about having own solution.There will
0:04:10 > 0:04:14because the spokes muscles solution for Britain.I think there are two
0:04:14 > 0:04:22images. This special way should be consistent with the preservation of
0:04:22 > 0:04:28the single market and our collective interest. You should understand that
0:04:28 > 0:04:31you cannot, by definition, a full access to the single market if you
0:04:31 > 0:04:39don't take the box. To get full access to the single market, unique
0:04:39 > 0:04:47contribution to the budget and you do have to accept...The freedoms.
0:04:47 > 0:04:52The freedoms and the jurisdiction. When you decide not to join the
0:04:52 > 0:04:55preconditions, Stoffel access. So it is something perhaps between the
0:04:55 > 0:05:01full access and trade agreement, but what is important is not to make
0:05:01 > 0:05:09people think or believe that it is possible to have...Your cake and
0:05:09 > 0:05:17eat it. When I talked to David Davis, I ask what does Britain need?
0:05:17 > 0:05:27He says Canada, plus, plus, plus. By plus, plus, plus, he needs services.
0:05:27 > 0:05:34From which you have so today, I guess that you believe we can have
0:05:34 > 0:05:38any special deal involving the city. You know to speak about services,
0:05:38 > 0:05:42but you speak of financial services. Cooking the deal is the job of
0:05:42 > 0:05:49Michel Barnier. We have very dedicated organisation. I don't want
0:05:49 > 0:05:56to start a negotiation against my country. That would be ridiculous.
0:05:56 > 0:06:01But we have to do and what we will do would be to make a decision in
0:06:01 > 0:06:05March regarding the mandate we want to get to Michelle Barnier to
0:06:05 > 0:06:08negotiate. After which he will have to negotiate with your negotiator.
0:06:08 > 0:06:16They will decide in independent puzzles me by the UK, but for sure,
0:06:16 > 0:06:21full access for financial services to the single market is not feasible
0:06:21 > 0:06:26getting the functioning of the single market. By definition, it is
0:06:26 > 0:06:30a pole axes.In concrete terms, some former passport he deal is off the
0:06:30 > 0:06:33table in these negotiations as far as you're controlled?I'm not the
0:06:33 > 0:06:37one to negotiate good one cause... Depends on what you are ready to put
0:06:37 > 0:06:40on the table in terms of precondition. If you respect the
0:06:40 > 0:06:46precondition to get access to the single market, it is feasible. It is
0:06:46 > 0:06:51not cherry picking in the single market. If I have to wrap up of full
0:06:51 > 0:06:54philosophy, not cherry picking in the supermarket because it is not
0:06:54 > 0:06:59feasible because otherwise, that is that this dismantling of the single
0:06:59 > 0:07:09market and for me, it is one of the... Of the European Union.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13We are very much saying that one of the consequences of Brexit you
0:07:13 > 0:07:20thought was to reaffirm Paris's centrality in the financial system
0:07:20 > 0:07:24in France is their strong pitch to British financial institutions
0:07:24 > 0:07:29forward to Paris how is it going?In China I do not speak about Brexit. I
0:07:29 > 0:07:37do not push any message. I fully disagree with that. I think that for
0:07:37 > 0:07:41China and I look at your about to be very much corner. We are linked and
0:07:41 > 0:07:51we're close to linked on many topics very important for both of us.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54Second, in terms of European dialogue of financial services, for
0:07:54 > 0:07:59sure. For sure we want to attract the maximum duty. Why? Because this
0:07:59 > 0:08:06decision has meant that for a lot of players. So a lot of ISO decide to
0:08:06 > 0:08:09be part of the EU and the euro zone. And they'll have to choose between
0:08:09 > 0:08:11different countries so there is a competition between different
0:08:11 > 0:08:17countries. Of course there is. And you have this decision regarding
0:08:17 > 0:08:24regulators. As you leave you lose the regulators and...I suppose the
0:08:24 > 0:08:29case for the cities that has been built up a big part of the whole
0:08:29 > 0:08:32financial system went to unplug the city from the rest of the European
0:08:32 > 0:08:38financial stock shirt is a big risk and a danger.Look, I think first of
0:08:38 > 0:08:44all, it is not my willingness and not a reasonable that the dock I
0:08:44 > 0:08:48figure something to be taken into consideration in your own proposals
0:08:48 > 0:08:54in the future. My willingness as not to unplug as you say the reddish I
0:08:54 > 0:08:59think he does not make sense because it is part of the whole financing of
0:08:59 > 0:09:05our European Union. For sure, if there is no change in terms of full
0:09:05 > 0:09:09access to the financial single market, and doesn't make sense. So I
0:09:09 > 0:09:15want to preserve what we created post world war and at what we
0:09:15 > 0:09:21created was this sophisticated organisation called the European
0:09:21 > 0:09:27Union which is for the very first time, not a hegemony of one or the
0:09:27 > 0:09:33other's, but a very concrete, Democratic construction.Why do you
0:09:33 > 0:09:38think the British photo to leave this sophisticated structure?Look
0:09:38 > 0:09:43I'm not the one to judge or comment the decision of your people. My
0:09:43 > 0:09:54interpretation is that a lot of people who lost from globalisation
0:09:54 > 0:09:59decided it was not normal for them. You see such a risk when you ask yes
0:09:59 > 0:10:08or no and accomplish cave-in situation. If France it had better
0:10:08 > 0:10:12in a similar context but our context was very different. So I don't want
0:10:12 > 0:10:22to make any to take any bets. I would have definitely fought very
0:10:22 > 0:10:31hard to win but I see is a mistake when you just ask yes or no when you
0:10:31 > 0:10:35don't ask people how to improve the situation and to explain how to
0:10:35 > 0:10:39improve it thus I do believe that it would be better to assess the
0:10:39 > 0:10:44people. Alas for the Brexit wrote my understanding is that middle classes
0:10:44 > 0:10:51and working classes and especially the oldest in your country, decided
0:10:51 > 0:10:59that the recent EKGs were not in their favour. I met the adjustments
0:10:59 > 0:11:04made by the EU and globalisation, set I think is a mixable film, was
0:11:04 > 0:11:09found in their favour. Which means what? First is not sustainable to
0:11:09 > 0:11:15have an unbalanced organisation. Probably one of the bitter debate,
0:11:15 > 0:11:18it was too favourable just for the city and less favourable for the
0:11:18 > 0:11:22rest of the country so...Surely it was about Europe is on the structure
0:11:22 > 0:11:29of Europe.Second I think one of the reasons was precisely an
0:11:29 > 0:11:36organisation of our European Union probably Bush gets too far in terms
0:11:36 > 0:11:43of freedom without cohesion. Towards free markets without any rules and
0:11:43 > 0:11:48any conversions. I have to say that your government had some
0:11:48 > 0:11:59possibilities in it. Ten years ago after the director that any vacation
0:11:59 > 0:12:04because all your people were saying the Hungarian or Polish workers are
0:12:04 > 0:12:08much more favoured than I am so it was executive debate we had in
0:12:08 > 0:12:14France. Ten to 15 years ago. I gave some directives that a lot of your
0:12:14 > 0:12:19governments pushed at the time St Ives you are not a free market. I do
0:12:19 > 0:12:24believe in a free-market. I do believe in a economy but we do need
0:12:24 > 0:12:27regulation and conversions. Which means what we lost in the recent
0:12:27 > 0:12:33years in Europe, that is convergence of solidarity message. It is no more
0:12:33 > 0:12:37sustainable to have some countries taking cohesion funds, taking money
0:12:37 > 0:12:43from the European Union, in order to converge in using the money to
0:12:43 > 0:12:48diverge. IE to reduce the labour standards are to reduce the
0:12:48 > 0:12:52corporate taxes. So that's why... Sorry to interrupted but your vision
0:12:52 > 0:12:57seems to be deepening Europe as a response to this. You want a single
0:12:57 > 0:13:01financial Minister over the whole thing, more European taxes, or done
0:13:01 > 0:13:08at the centre. Again is that not a terrible risk?No. Because his
0:13:08 > 0:13:14legislation. I think what we need first of all is to have a much more
0:13:14 > 0:13:20protective Europe. From the Fray beginning I am totally dedicated in
0:13:20 > 0:13:23making our Europe more protective to our people so what I do believe is
0:13:23 > 0:13:28that first Europe should not mean just adapting yourself when you are
0:13:28 > 0:13:33part of working classes are middle classes but the best answer is we
0:13:33 > 0:13:39have collective risks and threats. Europe is something that we will be
0:13:39 > 0:13:47protecting you. Collective security, migration as your organisation. I
0:13:47 > 0:13:51would say in the mid to long range view of Europe it is the following.
0:13:51 > 0:14:00I do believe that we have a European Union and...Definitely?It depends
0:14:00 > 0:14:08on you. I do respect his vote but I do regret the so. I would love to
0:14:08 > 0:14:16welcome you again. Your vision of a different Europe. My vision very
0:14:16 > 0:14:19short run being much more concrete. Less bureaucracy. More concrete in
0:14:19 > 0:14:23order to protect the pole and organisations and our collective
0:14:23 > 0:14:29future. We have to prepare for a new organisation which could be the
0:14:29 > 0:14:37following. We will be 27 at the EU level. For me the mid to long one
0:14:37 > 0:14:43perspective my definition is to gather some countries within the
0:14:43 > 0:14:55CPU. It will enlarge processing took the eight counterpart. This EU
0:14:55 > 0:15:01should have a tiller of single markets. Common values and rights.
0:15:01 > 0:15:07To be defended that is the first circle. And a series of inner
0:15:07 > 0:15:12circles on different policies.So I'm not the bit that there is are in
0:15:12 > 0:15:18the case.On defence, on migration. For me the core of this Europe is a
0:15:18 > 0:15:26fairy inner circle, isn't opened half on guard. Where we decide to
0:15:26 > 0:15:32have a much stronger integration and to work for together in economic and
0:15:32 > 0:15:42strategic terms.Let me move on if we may.More sovereignty. If user
0:15:42 > 0:15:45sovereignty and you don't attack people they don't believe in you. If
0:15:45 > 0:15:48you are not based on democratic approach to waterfall you. If you
0:15:48 > 0:15:58are not following unity they will leave.He said France is back.What
0:15:58 > 0:16:02did you mean by that? I mean that we are delivering performs which were
0:16:02 > 0:16:09impossible for decades. That's it. We fixed a series of internal
0:16:09 > 0:16:16difficulties and we increased our capacity to be competitive. This is
0:16:16 > 0:16:20for me and the pillar because when you're not credible on home Roto
0:16:20 > 0:16:26Jesse Carver outside.You talk about values which must involve I pursue
0:16:26 > 0:16:28freedom of the press and human rights and so forth. Did you raise
0:16:28 > 0:16:33those with the tiniest president when you talk to him?Hise said this
0:16:33 > 0:16:40involved leaders I met. What did he say to you? I do this job in France
0:16:40 > 0:16:44in order to relaunch Europe for each understand the full picture. The job
0:16:44 > 0:16:50we make you Francisco for France. I'm sure in the coming years we will
0:16:50 > 0:16:53improve our figures in terms of employment, reduce our deficit and
0:16:53 > 0:16:59so on. That's it. It allows me to be more credible at the European level
0:16:59 > 0:17:03and convince especially Germany, to work together to relaunch this new
0:17:03 > 0:17:07Europe. And third and allows us to be more credible at the
0:17:07 > 0:17:12international scale. On different subjects on different topics. Taking
0:17:12 > 0:17:18the leadership on climate change AUMA on Lebanon and several issues.
0:17:18 > 0:17:24Try Japan on climate change that you mention. I just want to very
0:17:24 > 0:17:29quickly...On human rights. Taking this part. I raised human rights
0:17:29 > 0:17:33directly with all the leaders. In China it's absolutely counter
0:17:33 > 0:17:43productive to raise it. The local system there is not the situation is
0:17:43 > 0:17:47not going to help you think. I do believe is totally
0:17:47 > 0:17:53counterproductive. So what I did as a had a direct discussion. We
0:17:53 > 0:18:02discussed this issue. I provided I was a visibility and the ability for
0:18:02 > 0:18:08them to be sure that this is not a promising in front of the camera. So
0:18:08 > 0:18:12that's it. It's different when I speak with the Turkish president
0:18:12 > 0:18:17because we had hours of discussion on human rights but I should add
0:18:17 > 0:18:23very clear statement...Let me ask you about this but just thought what
0:18:23 > 0:18:28you said but President Trump has said about certain countries. He
0:18:28 > 0:18:32denies about a lot of the city used that word. Amongst the African
0:18:32 > 0:18:36countries who were outraged and very offended by that were many
0:18:36 > 0:18:38Francophone countries, many French-speaking countries in Africa,
0:18:38 > 0:18:46did you share their average?For sure. For sure? Is not a word you
0:18:46 > 0:18:57can use. If you want precisely to build peace, development in this
0:18:57 > 0:19:02country and respect for... You can just kind of words. But by
0:19:02 > 0:19:10definition, and I think a lot of are issues are due to frustrations due
0:19:10 > 0:19:15to a lot of past humiliations and we have to understand that and I do
0:19:15 > 0:19:22believe that we need, we have to respect all the countries. Laszlo we
0:19:22 > 0:19:29own them and that's much more efficient. So I have very direct
0:19:29 > 0:19:35relationship with President Trump. You sat down with him for dinner at
0:19:35 > 0:19:39the top of the Eiffel Tower. I wonder what you make of him as a
0:19:39 > 0:19:43person come to come across a messy person?I think he is not classical
0:19:43 > 0:19:51politician. First of all he was elected by his people he is the
0:19:51 > 0:19:56president of the United States. And that is a great country. So I want
0:19:56 > 0:20:00to work with him and I think they built a very strong relationship.We
0:20:00 > 0:20:07disagree on several topics.Sure. And I call him very regularly. I'm
0:20:07 > 0:20:10always right direct with him. Sometimes I managed to convince and
0:20:10 > 0:20:15sometimes I fail.The wick up in the morning thinking what is he tweeted
0:20:15 > 0:20:20to stay?Know because I think we should not... We should not I think
0:20:20 > 0:20:28that his tweets, I'm asking you because I was business assertive mix
0:20:28 > 0:20:30between personal and political reaction and I think it's not
0:20:30 > 0:20:38feasible when you are president of the three so masking with a sly
0:20:38 > 0:20:41smile to face but it is a serious you have something like the North
0:20:41 > 0:20:45Korean situation when Trump basically says my nuclear button is
0:20:45 > 0:20:48bigger than your nuclear but a lot people will think this is just
0:20:48 > 0:20:53slightly unhinged and very dangerous. Yes but the best answer
0:20:53 > 0:20:58you right that is what? Just to say we have to work recklessly and
0:20:58 > 0:21:02seriously to force North Korea to come back to the table for
0:21:02 > 0:21:08negotiations. We have to follow UN sanctions and implement them and
0:21:08 > 0:21:15critical country in order to deliver his China.Absolutely.Talk about
0:21:15 > 0:21:20bringing countries back... To think there's any chance developers saying
0:21:20 > 0:21:24the Americans to come back to the table on the Paris country change
0:21:24 > 0:21:31agreement.I don't think there's any option to come back on the table
0:21:31 > 0:21:35negotiation to the piercing claimant is negotiated and signed. This is
0:21:35 > 0:21:47the site design what is done.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53Why we will not renegotiate for one people. I do believe it is a big
0:21:53 > 0:22:01mistake. I told him there's no new negotiation. To join or you don't
0:22:01 > 0:22:04join. China decided to remain in the loop. And we will deliver. We have
0:22:04 > 0:22:11to accelerate. What I see is that private sector and states in the US
0:22:11 > 0:22:16are following this line. They're trying to compliance agreement that
0:22:16 > 0:22:28citizens take that there will be no renegotiation. The centre budgeted
0:22:28 > 0:22:31to provide president Montague River that? I think I've ever used like
0:22:31 > 0:22:37that this expression. When I was asked you how to fund his people
0:22:37 > 0:22:46just capture one word and then take it with the context of the buses
0:22:46 > 0:22:49commentating when you preside you have to preside is different from
0:22:49 > 0:22:56governing and you have to be, you have to avoid permanent comments, to
0:22:56 > 0:23:06avoid sort of day to day residence without strong positions. I would
0:23:06 > 0:23:15not say that exactly. You need efficiency, authority, humanity. So
0:23:15 > 0:23:24that is why this third pillar is not compatible with Jupiter. Annette
0:23:24 > 0:23:30Young sky. But what is important to me and Mr want to say is that our
0:23:30 > 0:23:36credibility is to say what we want to do, to deliver, to change the
0:23:36 > 0:23:39country to prepare the country for the new centuries and that's what
0:23:39 > 0:23:41we're doing in France because that is a precondition to succeeding in
0:23:41 > 0:23:49Europe. Our role in this world is to help everywhere to build peace. That
0:23:49 > 0:23:58is set. As might job.Thank you very much indeed.