:00:08. > :00:10.This is Business Live from the BBC with Sally Bundock and Ben Thompson.
:00:11. > :00:11.Big tobacco versus the European Union.
:00:12. > :00:14.The two sides battle it out over health warnings, graphic images
:00:15. > :00:38.Live from London, that's our top story today, Wednesday, 4th May.
:00:39. > :00:40.The big players in the tobacco industry have joined forces
:00:41. > :00:43.to oppose an EU ruling, but can they hold back the tide
:00:44. > :00:46.of regulation as pressure mounts to crack down on smoking and put
:00:47. > :00:51.Also in the programme, when is an iPhone not an iPhone?
:00:52. > :00:58.Tech giant Apple has lost a trademark fight with a handbag
:00:59. > :01:01.maker in China over the name of it's most well-known product.
:01:02. > :01:03.We're live in Beijing with the details.
:01:04. > :01:05.And markets are bouncing higher in Europe but with mixed
:01:06. > :01:08.earnings news we'll talk you through the winners
:01:09. > :01:24.The firm that lost it's way is back on track.
:01:25. > :01:28.The Co-Founder of sat nav giant Tom Tom will be here in the studio.
:01:29. > :01:30.As Donald Trump effectively seals the Republican nomination
:01:31. > :01:33.in the race to become the next US president we want to
:01:34. > :01:34.know if Business people make good politicians?
:01:35. > :01:57.Will tobacco firms be forced to sell their products in plain packaging?
:01:58. > :01:59.They'll find out later whether new EU rules
:02:00. > :02:03.Philip Morris, British American Tobacco and Imperial Tobacco have
:02:04. > :02:05.all joined forces to attack the legality of the ban
:02:06. > :02:10.which the European Union hopes will cut the number of people
:02:11. > :02:12.smoking across Europe by 2.4 million.
:02:13. > :02:15.The Smoke Free Partnership, which is part funded
:02:16. > :02:19.by the European Commission, say smoking costs the EU
:02:20. > :02:26.The new rules, voted on last year, included a ban on flavoured
:02:27. > :02:29.cigarettes, a ban on so called "lipstick-style" packs aimed
:02:30. > :02:31.at women and the requirement for 65% of each packet sold
:02:32. > :02:44.Crucially the commission also said that plain packaging could go ahead
:02:45. > :02:46.when "justified on grounds of public health".
:02:47. > :02:49.Europe's highest court will rule today on whether or not the EU's
:02:50. > :03:04.actions are "proportionate" and if they work against the single market?
:03:05. > :03:08.With me is Shane MacGuill, a tobacco analyst with
:03:09. > :03:18.Let's talk about the ruling. Which way are we expecting it to go. We
:03:19. > :03:26.have had an indication from the EU about what they are thinking? The
:03:27. > :03:29.advocate general ruled against the tobacco industry changes. It is part
:03:30. > :03:34.of the rising tide of regulation around the world, not just in Europe
:03:35. > :03:37.against tobacco firms, we have seen strict rules being enforced on them
:03:38. > :03:42.in other parts of the world. And it strikes me there is only one way for
:03:43. > :03:45.this to go, so it is about how the tobacco companies deal with it
:03:46. > :03:49.rather than trying to win any big concessions? They recognise the tide
:03:50. > :03:55.is moving out for them in terms of regulation. Today's judgement will
:03:56. > :03:59.be another case in terms of the idea that the health objectives that
:04:00. > :04:04.regulators is primary to the ability of the tobacco industry to generate
:04:05. > :04:06.revenue. The industry want to manage the regulations that they're faced
:04:07. > :04:10.with across the world and minimise the effects on their own business.
:04:11. > :04:15.What is more damaging to the tobacco firms? Is it the graphic images that
:04:16. > :04:20.we see on some cigarette packets in some parts of the world or is it the
:04:21. > :04:24.concept of plain packaging? I would argue that plain packaging is more
:04:25. > :04:29.detrimental to them because it removes any capacity that they have
:04:30. > :04:32.to communicate with consumers. Graphic health warnings, although
:04:33. > :04:37.they are extensive and they must have some effect on smokers, allow
:04:38. > :04:40.room for branding of the product. So plain packaging which inhibits the
:04:41. > :04:44.industry from communicating with consumers or smokers is more
:04:45. > :04:48.damaging to them in the longer run. Of all the images where brand
:04:49. > :04:52.something so important, the tobacco industry, it is key, because that's
:04:53. > :04:55.what allows them to charge higher prices and allows them to have the
:04:56. > :05:00.lifestyle that's built around a certain brand and why people choose
:05:01. > :05:08.one or other because essentially the product is pretty much the same?
:05:09. > :05:11.Some of the iconic significant Bretts are iconic globally. It is
:05:12. > :05:16.something they need to generate brand identity to create more
:05:17. > :05:19.revenues. Briefly, just a last thought, as that screw tightens in
:05:20. > :05:23.Europe, the push into emerging markets for ta bobbing co firms will
:05:24. > :05:29.be more important than ever? It becomes increasingly important. They
:05:30. > :05:33.are looking at markets where regulation is less restricted and
:05:34. > :05:37.where tax is lower and to have that leverage to continue to build brand
:05:38. > :05:42.identities and engage consumers will be crucial for them going forward.
:05:43. > :05:46.Absolutely. We will keep a close eye on things from Europe. Shane, for
:05:47. > :05:49.now, thank you. Donald Trump has become the US
:05:50. > :05:51.Republican presidential nominee in all but name after victory
:05:52. > :05:54.in Indiana forced rival Mr Trump, unpopular with many
:05:55. > :06:01.in his own party, now has a clear path to the 1,237 delegates needed
:06:02. > :06:13.to claim his party's crown. The oil giant Royal Dutch Shell has
:06:14. > :06:24.published first quarter earnings down 83% to $814 million,
:06:25. > :06:26.down from $4.8 billion in The oil giant says capital
:06:27. > :06:31.investment in 2016 is now more likely to be $30 billion rather
:06:32. > :06:33.than previous guidance Fiat Chrysler has announced a deal
:06:34. > :06:37.with Google to double the size of the tech giant's fleet
:06:38. > :06:39.of self-driving cars. Fiat will supply 100
:06:40. > :06:40.Chrysler Pacifica vans and provide engineers to help
:06:41. > :06:44.integrate the technology. Prosecutors in Brazil have filed
:06:45. > :06:46.a $43.5 billion civil lawsuit against iron miner Samarco,
:06:47. > :06:50.and its owners BHP It follows the collapse of a dam
:06:51. > :06:58.they owned that caused a massive Let's take you to the live page
:06:59. > :07:11.and killed 19 people. Let's take you to the live page if
:07:12. > :07:16.it is working. It has been difficult this morning. Let me see whether it
:07:17. > :07:22.It has got frustrated. There we go. It has got frustrated. There we go.
:07:23. > :07:25.It is loading up. The live page is a place to get all the news that we
:07:26. > :07:29.don't have time to cover on the programme! Wets can't show you
:07:30. > :07:33.either! It is taking a long time. Have some patience. It is there. It
:07:34. > :07:36.is there. All the reaction to stories, of course over the morning,
:07:37. > :07:40.dominated by two things in the UK, Sainsbury's results, we will touch
:07:41. > :07:45.on those later and also the retailer, Next too, but Shell also
:07:46. > :07:47.there. We've touched on it. First quarter earnings falling 83%, coming
:07:48. > :07:51.in at $814 million. Apple has lost a trademark fight
:07:52. > :07:54.in China, meaning a firm which sells handbags and other leather goods can
:07:55. > :08:00.continue use the name "iPhone". A court in Beijing ruled in favour
:08:01. > :08:03.of the Chinese technology company, which trademarked "iPhone"
:08:04. > :08:05.for leather products Stephen McDonell is in
:08:06. > :08:19.Beijing for us. Stephen, just explain this for us. A
:08:20. > :08:24.leather goods manufacturer wants to use the name iPhone, why? Well, on
:08:25. > :08:30.the face of it, it does seem bizarre, but it makes legal sense.
:08:31. > :08:34.Local Chinese company, has beaten Apple in court over the right to
:08:35. > :08:39.sell its leather bags, calling them iPhone. These are bags, you might
:08:40. > :08:44.put a laptop in or a phone. Letter bags. Apple took them to the local
:08:45. > :08:48.trademark authority and lost. Took them to a local Beijing court and
:08:49. > :08:52.lost again. Now in Beijing's high test court, lost a third time.
:08:53. > :08:59.Crucially, what Apple was not able to prove is that in 2007, it was
:09:00. > :09:04.already an established famous brand here when this Chinese company
:09:05. > :09:08.lodged its registration because it didn't start selling iPhones here
:09:09. > :09:14.until 2009. So they have it, Apple lost. People are able to come to
:09:15. > :09:20.China now and buy a perfectly legal iPhone leather bag which has nothing
:09:21. > :09:24.whatsoever to do with Apple. Stephen, an intriguing tale, thank
:09:25. > :09:25.you very much. It sounds like a David and Goliath story, doesn't it
:09:26. > :09:40.and in this case, David won. Hong Kong is down 1% and you can see
:09:41. > :09:44.behind me, the night before was grim on Wall Street as well. As was it
:09:45. > :09:48.was in Europe too on Tuesday. All because of the bad news about
:09:49. > :09:52.economics. Eurozone growth forecast lowered. Also concern about China
:09:53. > :09:56.and that's really dampened sentiment. So what's happening now
:09:57. > :10:01.in Europe? Well some of the main markets in Europe are bouncing back
:10:02. > :10:10.after heavy falls, but not so for London, the DAX down a bit and the
:10:11. > :10:13.CAC flat. Shell's shares, there is a tongue twister, they're up slightly
:10:14. > :10:17.in London because their news is better than expected. BHP Billiton
:10:18. > :10:22.shares down and falling now in London too off the back of the news
:10:23. > :10:25.we mentioned about the mine in Brazil and prosecutors hitting them
:10:26. > :10:31.with big sums of money. So lots to talk about in a few minutes with our
:10:32. > :10:34.markets guest, but for now, let's hear from Michelle on what we can
:10:35. > :10:37.expect on Wall Street today. The earnings parade continues this
:10:38. > :10:45.Wednesday. One of the most highly anticipated is the first quarter
:10:46. > :10:48.results from at thes lard want expected loss Teslar, investors are
:10:49. > :10:55.beginning to ask is it its share price too rich? This is time for the
:10:56. > :10:59.maker to prove doubters wrong. Turning to the media, CNN maybe
:11:00. > :11:03.beating Fox News when it comes to ratings in the United States, but is
:11:04. > :11:13.the same true for their respective parent companies? 21St Century Fox
:11:14. > :11:17.is expected to report a rise in profits and a rosy picture is
:11:18. > :11:25.forecast for Time Warner which owns CNN. Teeing up Friday's Government
:11:26. > :11:29.jobs data, watch out for the latest snapshot from private employers.
:11:30. > :11:30.Joining us is Maike Currie, investment director
:11:31. > :11:40.Let's pick up on Shell and the interesting thing about Shell is
:11:41. > :11:45.cutting that expenditure for the year.
:11:46. > :11:48.About 10% in Shell's case, it is a big difference? It is a big
:11:49. > :11:52.difference and what we have seen over the last two years, almost two
:11:53. > :11:55.years, these oil companies fighting the low oil price and of course,
:11:56. > :12:00.companies like Shell and BP being the big boys are better positioned,
:12:01. > :12:04.but even they are struggling now and the big question for a company like
:12:05. > :12:08.Shell is how sustainable the dividend is, the income payment is
:12:09. > :12:12.that the company makes to shareholders. Shell hasn't cut its
:12:13. > :12:15.dividend since the Second World War. If the woes continue with oil price,
:12:16. > :12:20.this comes into question. It is the first set of numbers from Shell,
:12:21. > :12:24.isn't it, since their 15th February deal with BG Group. Shell being
:12:25. > :12:30.transformed in many ways, not just by the lower oil price? Absolutely.
:12:31. > :12:33.That deal with BG divided Shell. Some said, will it add value to
:12:34. > :12:38.Shell or will it take value away from Shell? It will be interesting
:12:39. > :12:42.to see where Shell goes from here. Short and sweet, but we'll talk more
:12:43. > :12:46.about Donald Trump, of all things, later in the programme, but for now,
:12:47. > :12:51.thank you. The head of Tom Tom will be
:12:52. > :12:56.here to give us the Inside Track on how the company's been
:12:57. > :12:58.rebuilding its business after Google shook up the market
:12:59. > :13:01.with its free mapping app. You're with Business
:13:02. > :13:03.Live from BBC News. Profits at the supermarket
:13:04. > :13:06.Sainsbury's have come in better than expected,
:13:07. > :13:09.but still mark a second The company made a full-year pre-tax
:13:10. > :13:16.profit of ?587 million compared Our Business Editor Simon Jack joins
:13:17. > :13:31.us from the Business Newsroom. Simon talk us through these. We look
:13:32. > :13:32.at this closely the rivalry between the supermarkets and the battle with
:13:33. > :13:59.the discounters? It will have declining sales. Food
:14:00. > :14:03.prices have fallen 4% over the last two years and if you add that to the
:14:04. > :14:07.white hot competition it is getting from its noisy neighbours, Aldi and
:14:08. > :14:17.Lidl it has been a difficult period indeed. Sainsbury's has been
:14:18. > :14:25.resilient against the newcomers and has held its market share stable at
:14:26. > :14:30.16.5%. It bought Argos. So people will now be looking at how it
:14:31. > :14:35.executes on that strategy. A tough time for supermarkets. A good time
:14:36. > :14:38.for shoppers during this food deflation, but Sainsbury's is
:14:39. > :14:41.holding its own. Shares off a little bit, but it has done better than
:14:42. > :14:45.some. All right, Simon, thank you very much.
:14:46. > :14:50.Simon Jack joining us from our business unit.
:14:51. > :15:03.the tablet is working, so I can show you some of the news, including news
:15:04. > :15:08.from the payday loans firm Wonga. It is reporting pre-tax losses because
:15:09. > :15:12.of reduction in UK consumer lending volumes, as it calls it, but it is
:15:13. > :15:16.basically the tougher lending criteria. It is also saying it is
:15:17. > :15:23.trying to be more responsible about who it is lending to. Looking at
:15:24. > :15:30.some of the other stories on the Business Live page. What is going
:15:31. > :15:39.wrong for Next? Coming through with numbers not so good this time.
:15:40. > :15:44.Our top story: Tobacco giants are in court today in a final
:15:45. > :15:49.attempt to reverse the EU's Tobacco Products Directive.
:15:50. > :15:54.The new rules would mean that cigarettes will have to be
:15:55. > :15:57.sold in packs of 20, and 65% of the packet must be
:15:58. > :16:08.There is also debate about entirely plain packaging.
:16:09. > :16:12.Now, it wasn't too long ago that the paper maps were king,
:16:13. > :16:16.and rows over which route to take were common.
:16:17. > :16:18.All that changed, though, with the advent of the sat nav
:16:19. > :16:28.Tom Tom was one of the firms that led that revolution.
:16:29. > :16:31.In the final quarter of 2007, the firm made $124 million,
:16:32. > :16:35.But it didn't take long for things to go wrong.
:16:36. > :16:38.Two years later in 2009, the company made a loss
:16:39. > :16:40.of $43 million in the first quarter of the year.
:16:41. > :16:46.Well, the market was turned upside down almost overnight by Google's
:16:47. > :16:53.decision to start offering a free mapping service for phones.
:16:54. > :16:56.Since then the company has undergone a bit of a revolution,
:16:57. > :17:05.and now has a deal with Uber to provide it with digital maps.
:17:06. > :17:08.As well as traditional mapping tech, the company has also been branching
:17:09. > :17:10.out, launching a range of gadgets from smart watches and fitness
:17:11. > :17:18.Corinne Vigreux is the co-founder of Tom Tom, and she joins us now.
:17:19. > :17:27.Good morning, nice to see you. Let's just talk about this. It was a fall
:17:28. > :17:35.from grace, you were doing so well at the top of the market, Tom Tom
:17:36. > :17:38.Rumack were revolutionising the way that we made our way around the
:17:39. > :17:45.world, but overnight, things changed, Google launched its free
:17:46. > :17:56.app. Not only that, 2008 was a perfect storm, there was the crisis,
:17:57. > :18:00.we had found that the level of penetration of the sat nav is was
:18:01. > :18:06.quite high. So we had to reinvent ourselves. We knew we had to
:18:07. > :18:11.diversify, and we acquired a competitor. Our aim was to be the
:18:12. > :18:17.best navigation, to know the road the best on the market, and we
:18:18. > :18:25.started working on big technology that today is going to help us be a
:18:26. > :18:28.major player in driverless cars, so we have invested a lot of money in
:18:29. > :18:34.knowing every ten centimetres of every road in the world. But you had
:18:35. > :18:39.the likes of Google emerge, and that came already on people's smart
:18:40. > :18:46.devices, but also car manufacturers as well were putting sat nav devices
:18:47. > :18:52.as a part of the car, so you no longer need to get a Tom Tom. That
:18:53. > :18:57.is true, but we are still selling a lot of devices, in Europe we sell
:18:58. > :19:03.more than 4 million per year, and in the UK, last year, and in Germany,
:19:04. > :19:07.the sales of sat nav stabilised. So there are still a lot of customers
:19:08. > :19:14.valuing the independence of a sat nav in the car, no roaming charges,
:19:15. > :19:17.never out of coverage. And Tom Tom has been working along time on
:19:18. > :19:21.routing and traffic information, it is still the best on the market
:19:22. > :19:25.today. How would you differentiate yourself from something that is
:19:26. > :19:31.provided for free and you are asking people to pay a couple of hundred
:19:32. > :19:34.dollars for it? If you have a telephone, you have to connect, you
:19:35. > :19:41.have to be online to be able to download information. With the Tom
:19:42. > :19:44.Tom, it is a no-brainer, it is dedicated navigation, and we keep
:19:45. > :19:50.working really hard to make that the best it is, and it was interesting
:19:51. > :19:56.in London yesterday, to see all of those cabbies using our products,
:19:57. > :20:00.and that was the testimony that they are the best product on the market.
:20:01. > :20:04.You have launched a lot of new devices, some of them smart devices,
:20:05. > :20:11.but you are also looking at the driverless car. Yes, it is quite
:20:12. > :20:15.nice to have made it to the dictionary as a synonym to sat nav,
:20:16. > :20:20.we got voted yesterday, top 50 gadgets in the last century, so it
:20:21. > :20:25.is very flattering, but at the same time, we focus on the next 25 years,
:20:26. > :20:29.and I think we were be playing a major role in the way we move in
:20:30. > :20:35.cities in the next 25 years and in bringing technology for self driving
:20:36. > :20:39.cars. If cars are driverless, they need external information. Yes, it
:20:40. > :20:48.is a mix of sensors, but they need to know exactly what is happening on
:20:49. > :20:52.the road, and we are working on 3-D high-definition road mapping, and
:20:53. > :20:57.you need that when you don't have a driver behind the wheel. Do use the
:20:58. > :21:04.voice of Darth Vader for one of your Tom Tom? I was told by one of my
:21:05. > :21:08.presenter colleagues. Yes, Bart Simpson. We have got them all. You
:21:09. > :21:11.should have a Ben Thompson voice, maybe. I hear enough sallied undock
:21:12. > :21:15.voice right next to me. It's now just 50 days until polling
:21:16. > :21:18.stations open for the UK's But when it comes to the business
:21:19. > :21:24.debate, it's easy to focus on the powerful voices
:21:25. > :21:26.behind billion dollar companies - but the majority of UK firms
:21:27. > :21:29.are actually small and medium sized The BBC has been scouring
:21:30. > :21:33.the country to find out what EU membership means to small businesses
:21:34. > :21:46.- those on the front line. My name is Bethany Sawyer. The
:21:47. > :21:53.company is called Bio farm UK Limited, and we distribute leeches
:21:54. > :21:58.to hospitals. They are used in post-reconstructive surgery, so it
:21:59. > :22:04.is if you are reattaching a limb, a digit, a skin draft. At the moment
:22:05. > :22:07.there is a clause which means that because leeches have been used for
:22:08. > :22:13.so long in medicine, we are able to supply them without hassle, however
:22:14. > :22:20.I do think there is a definite move towards more and more EU medical
:22:21. > :22:22.device regulation. There are several medical device directives coming
:22:23. > :22:27.out, more in the pipeline, so the longer we stay in the EU, the more
:22:28. > :22:32.complicated it will get for us. It would mean we potentially face
:22:33. > :22:37.submitting massive amounts of paperwork to supply with the EU
:22:38. > :22:38.medical device regulations, and that is a considerable cost, a
:22:39. > :22:41.considerable addition to your overhead.
:22:42. > :22:44.Tune in tomorrow where we'll be speaking to another small business
:22:45. > :22:46.with a more favourable view on EU membership.
:22:47. > :22:49.And of course you can find more from our series "EU: Business Talks"
:22:50. > :22:55.A quick update on the story at the start of the programme, the ruling
:22:56. > :22:59.from the European court of justice in the European union related to the
:23:00. > :23:06.tobacco companies. The court has ruled that the new EU directive has
:23:07. > :23:08.tough rules and is valid, and it will allow member states to
:23:09. > :23:12.introduce further restrictions, including things like plain
:23:13. > :23:19.packaging, the ban on things like menthol cigarettes, and graphic
:23:20. > :23:22.warnings on packages. The advocate general gave his advice some weeks
:23:23. > :23:26.ago saying that he felt this was the right decision, so it comes as no
:23:27. > :23:30.surprise. That is the decision just fruit from the European court of
:23:31. > :23:33.justice. We asked you to get in touch to tell us whether you believe
:23:34. > :23:38.business leaders make for good politicians. This is following
:23:39. > :23:44.Donald Trump winning the last element in the race to become the
:23:45. > :23:47.nominee for the Republican party. We will discuss that in just a moment,
:23:48. > :23:58.but just run through some your comments. We like this one: It says
:23:59. > :24:02.that you two, referring to Sally and I, no more about business and would
:24:03. > :24:08.be better politicians than Donald Trump! And one from Ryan who says,
:24:09. > :24:23.Mike Bloomberg is an example, but he is the exception. Let's
:24:24. > :24:26.Maike Currie, in reintroduce vestment
:24:27. > :24:41.what you think of Donald Trump? It is staggering that he has come from
:24:42. > :24:46.this far, and now we have the firing gun in one of the most ugly
:24:47. > :24:50.presidential races, because both candidates have very un-favourable
:24:51. > :24:53.ratings, so it will be interesting. And what is so interesting about
:24:54. > :24:58.Donald Trump, he has got to the position he has done because the
:24:59. > :25:03.media is assessed with him, but also coming out with radical statements
:25:04. > :25:07.on immigration and health care. But the trick then is getting any of
:25:08. > :25:11.those into policy if and when he wins the presidential race. It is
:25:12. > :25:16.one thing having those views, it is another making them into policy.
:25:17. > :25:19.That is a key point, because there is a difference between a highly
:25:20. > :25:23.charged presidential race and actually being the President. The
:25:24. > :25:26.way the American political system is set up, you have Congress, the
:25:27. > :25:30.Supreme Court, and all of these bodies serve to put grit in the
:25:31. > :25:37.wheels, so it is difficult to get policies through. And thinking ahead
:25:38. > :25:42.as well, we have about 20 seconds left, so we can't say very much, but
:25:43. > :25:46.a lot of discussion in the market again about US interest rates and
:25:47. > :25:51.when they may change. Does this have any effect on that at all? US
:25:52. > :25:54.elections really don't have a big impact on the market, but June is
:25:55. > :25:58.the key month, the later part of June, we will see whether the
:25:59. > :26:01.announcements on interest rates, and more policy and central bank.
:26:02. > :26:16.Morning. This coming weekend should see the warmest weather of the year
:26:17. > :26:17.so