Syria Debate and Vote

:00:00. > :00:07.I'm Ben Brown live at Westminster, where the decision to launch

:00:08. > :00:17.British air strikes in Syria will soon be voted upon by MPs.

:00:18. > :00:24.There have been sharp disagreements today about whether or not to bomb,

:00:25. > :00:28.but agreement on high the macro how high the stakes are.

:00:29. > :00:30.The action we propose is legal, it is necessary,

:00:31. > :00:33.and it is the right thing to do to keep our country safe.

:00:34. > :00:35.It's becoming increasingly clear that the Prime Minister's

:00:36. > :00:40.proposals for military action simply do not stack up.

:00:41. > :00:48.If MPs vote in favour of air strikes, military action could

:00:49. > :00:54.follow very swiftly. I think we will see tonight, if there is a yes vote,

:00:55. > :00:56.RAF Tornadoes from Akrotiri on a mission over Syria.

:00:57. > :00:59.The Government's claims that thousands of Syrian fighters on the

:01:00. > :01:11.ground are ready to join the fight against IS are being questioned.

:01:12. > :01:17.Outside Parliament tonight, there has been a protest by demonstrators

:01:18. > :01:21.who don't want Britain to take action.

:01:22. > :01:24.And this is the scene live in the House of Commons where MPs

:01:25. > :01:29.continue the debate - a final vote is expected later tonight.

:01:30. > :01:37.At around 10pm this evening. I am Julian Worricker. In other

:01:38. > :01:42.news, in the past few minutes reports of as many as 20 people

:01:43. > :01:47.wounded in a gun attack east of Los Angeles. There are reports of one to

:01:48. > :01:49.three attackers who are still being sought by police. We will have the

:01:50. > :02:04.latest. Good evening

:02:05. > :02:06.from Westminster where parliament has been debating plans for British

:02:07. > :02:08.air strikes against so-called The debate was opened by the Prime

:02:09. > :02:18.Minister, who warned that Britain couldn't afford to sit back and wait

:02:19. > :02:24.for an attack here in the UK. But Mr Cameron faced persistent

:02:25. > :02:27.criticism from opposition MPs after he'd described those against air

:02:28. > :02:34.strikes as terrorist sympathisers. Labour's Jeremy Corbyn said

:02:35. > :02:36.the Government's plans were misguided and could well make

:02:37. > :02:42.matters worse in Syria. We'll be bringing you more

:02:43. > :02:47.of the action in the House of Commons later this hour,

:02:48. > :02:50.but first here's a flavour of the - I'm absolutely clear that we must

:02:51. > :02:56.pursue a comprehensive strategy, that also includes political,

:02:57. > :02:58.diplomatic and humanitarian action. And I know that the long-term

:02:59. > :03:01.solution in Syria, as in Iraq, must ultimately be a government

:03:02. > :03:06.that represents all of its people. And one that can work with us to

:03:07. > :03:09.defeat the evil organisation of Isil But, Mr Speaker,

:03:10. > :03:14.notwithstanding all of this... Notwithstanding all of this,

:03:15. > :03:18.there is a simple question We face a fundamental threat to

:03:19. > :03:23.our security. Isil have brutally murdered British

:03:24. > :03:26.hostages. They've inspired

:03:27. > :03:28.the worst terrorist attack against British people since 7/7 on

:03:29. > :03:32.the beaches of Tunisia, and they've plotted atrocity after atrocity

:03:33. > :03:38.on the streets here at home. Since November last year

:03:39. > :03:40.our security services have foiled no further than seven different

:03:41. > :03:45.plots against our people. So this threat is very real,

:03:46. > :03:48.and the question is this - do we work with our allies to degrade

:03:49. > :03:51.and destroy this threat, and do we go after these terrorists in their

:03:52. > :03:54.heartlands, from where they are plotting to kill British people,

:03:55. > :03:57.or do we sit back and wait The Prime Minister's attempt to

:03:58. > :04:03.brand those who plan to vote against the Government

:04:04. > :04:08.as terrorist sympathisers both demeans the office of the

:04:09. > :04:11.Prime Minister and, I believe, undermines the seriousness of the

:04:12. > :04:18.deliberations we are having today. If the Prime Minister now wants to

:04:19. > :04:21.apologise for those remarks, I'd be Since, Mr Speaker,

:04:22. > :04:34.the Prime Minister is unmoved, we'll have to move

:04:35. > :04:38.on with the debate, and I hope... And I hope he will be stronger later

:04:39. > :04:41.to recognise that, yes, he did make an unfortunate remark

:04:42. > :04:45.last night, and apologising for it would be very helpful to improve the

:04:46. > :05:05.atmosphere of this debate today. The Prime Minister

:05:06. > :05:07.is facing an amendment signed by 110 members of this House, from

:05:08. > :05:10.six different political parties. I've examined that

:05:11. > :05:13.list very carefully. I cannot identify a single terrorist

:05:14. > :05:16.sympathiser among that list. Will he now apologise

:05:17. > :05:18.for his deeply insulting remarks? I've made very clear, this is

:05:19. > :05:23.about how we fight terrorism, and there is honour in any vote

:05:24. > :05:27.that honourable members make. Our French allies have explicitly

:05:28. > :05:32.asked us for support, and I invite the House to consider how we would

:05:33. > :05:35.feel, and what we would say if what took place in Paris had happened in

:05:36. > :05:39.London, if we had explicitly asked France for support

:05:40. > :05:51.and France had refused. These are These are genuinely extremely

:05:52. > :05:59.difficult, as well But it is the urgings of the

:06:00. > :06:05.United Nations and of the socialist government in France that, for me,

:06:06. > :06:09.have been the tipping point in my A gesture of solidarity, however

:06:10. > :06:16.sincerely meant, cannot be a Most defence committee members

:06:17. > :06:30.probably intend to vote for such air strikes, but I shall

:06:31. > :06:35.vote against air strikes in the absence of credible ground forces

:06:36. > :06:37.as ineffective and potentially dangerous, just as I voted against

:06:38. > :06:56.the proposal to bomb Assad in 2013. Indeed, the fact that the British

:06:57. > :07:05.government wanted to bomb first one side, and then the other in the same

:07:06. > :07:13.civil war in such a short space of time illustrates to my mind a vacuum

:07:14. > :07:15.at the heart of our strategy. Just a flavour of the debate.

:07:16. > :07:17.Our chief political correspondent Vicki Young is in

:07:18. > :07:27.Vicki, not long to go until the vote, how is it looking? I think the

:07:28. > :07:32.Government is pretty confident of getting its majority. David Cameron

:07:33. > :07:36.said he would not bring this vote to the House of Commons unless he were

:07:37. > :07:41.sure of that. A couple of hours ago I saw a very senior Cabinet minister

:07:42. > :07:45.who said that as soon as they heard Alan Johnson for Labour and Margaret

:07:46. > :07:51.Beckett for Labour, who we heard in that he is, they knew they had won.

:07:52. > :07:56.The question is how many Labour MPs on a free vote decide to God with

:07:57. > :08:01.the Government. We have her past... Passionate speeches from that side,

:08:02. > :08:05.and we have heard MPs talking about what they say is the intimidation

:08:06. > :08:10.may have come under from online activist 's, some talk about protest

:08:11. > :08:16.is besieging constituency offices. I have been at the Stop The War

:08:17. > :08:19.protest later and he said that Labour MPs who have voted with the

:08:20. > :08:25.Government are traitors. So there is another story coming under the big

:08:26. > :08:29.decision about bombing Syria, about how Labour MPs are feeling. It has

:08:30. > :08:34.clearly been a very difficult time for many, but the Government will be

:08:35. > :08:38.pretty sure of getting a majority. They have the Liberal Democrats

:08:39. > :08:41.onside, the Democratic Unionists, so the question is how big the majority

:08:42. > :08:46.will be. When we get the votes, which we are

:08:47. > :08:51.thinking is maybe at around 10:30pm, we are looking for the size of the

:08:52. > :08:58.majority. What would be, for David Cameron, a good result? They don't

:08:59. > :09:02.want to just scrape over the line. They have probably got ten of their

:09:03. > :09:04.own rebels, that is almost counteracted by the Liberal

:09:05. > :09:11.Democrats and the Democratic Unionist Party. They would hope to

:09:12. > :09:15.get 50, 60, 70, maybe even more Labour MPs. It is interesting how

:09:16. > :09:19.the debate has ebbed and flowed. After the elections in May there was

:09:20. > :09:24.a lot of talk about whether this vote would come back to the House of

:09:25. > :09:28.Commons, but then it faded away. The election of Jeremy Corbyn, who we

:09:29. > :09:32.know as opposed to air strikes, put them off the idea. And then those

:09:33. > :09:37.attacks in Paris really changed everything. But then some pollsters

:09:38. > :09:40.have said that even the two weeks since the Paris attacks, public

:09:41. > :09:45.opinion in Britain has shifted, having been in favour, may be moving

:09:46. > :09:49.away slightly. But I think they will know they will have a good, solid

:09:50. > :09:53.majority and the Prime Minister has said they feel it is important that

:09:54. > :10:00.Parliament shows its backing for troops for the apples who will have

:10:01. > :10:02.of circumstances -- troops for the of circumstances -- troops for the

:10:03. > :10:08.Thank you, Vicki Young. Outside the Thank you, Vicki Young. Outside the

:10:09. > :10:12.Houses of Parliament there has been another demonstration by protesters

:10:13. > :10:15.who don't want to military action, which is military action against

:10:16. > :10:23.Islamic State in Syria. Keith Doyle has been what Ching as it has

:10:24. > :10:28.continued. The Stop The War Coalition protest is angrily

:10:29. > :10:33.demonstrating, many lying down in the street. What is the latest? It

:10:34. > :10:39.is a very noisy Parliament Square, Tropic has been stopped,

:10:40. > :10:43.demonstrators laid down on the ground, demonstrating, they say, the

:10:44. > :10:47.loss of life that would happen if Bonington phase. There are banners

:10:48. > :10:52.here from trade unions, churches, community groups, and many

:10:53. > :10:57.individuals. I reckon there are about 2000 people. I am joined by

:10:58. > :11:03.David and John, why have you come here today, why is it important? It

:11:04. > :11:07.is important to show that a lot of people are against the hypocrisy of

:11:08. > :11:11.these actions in the Middle East. It is a cynical ploy. Why aren't we

:11:12. > :11:16.looking at whether money is coming from for Isis? The Saudis are

:11:17. > :11:21.funding them, the Turks have bought their oil. Why are we doing deals

:11:22. > :11:25.with these people? Why are we just adding more bombs? Ultimately, this

:11:26. > :11:31.bombing will not help the Syrian people. We cannot guarantee that the

:11:32. > :11:34.70,000 alleged supporter friendly forces are, indeed, friendly and

:11:35. > :11:40.supportive towards the UK. If it will not help the Syrian people, we

:11:41. > :11:45.should not be doing it. There are many thousands of people here this

:11:46. > :11:49.evening. There are many opposite views being debated in the House of

:11:50. > :11:53.Commons right across the road. The protesters here say they will be

:11:54. > :11:59.here right until the 10pm vote, and while afterwards. Back to you from a

:12:00. > :12:04.very noisy Parliament Square. We are a few hundred yards down the

:12:05. > :12:06.road from Keith. Let me tell you about the Parliamentary choreography

:12:07. > :12:11.and the timetable for later on this evening. There will be two votes,

:12:12. > :12:18.the first is on an amendment against air strikes on Syria, opposed by

:12:19. > :12:22.Conservative MP John Barron and Angus Robertson of the SNP, that

:12:23. > :12:26.will be voted on at around 10pm. The main votes on the main Government

:12:27. > :12:30.motion proposed by David Cameron and others in the Government, we should

:12:31. > :12:36.get the result at around 10:30pm, 10:35pm. Stay tuned throughout the

:12:37. > :12:40.evening, full coverage of the debate and the vote later this evening.

:12:41. > :12:45.Actor Julian now. Thank you, Ben Brown.

:12:46. > :12:48.Moving away from Westminster for a moment to get more on the news that

:12:49. > :12:54.broke in the last half-hour or so this multiple shooting in

:12:55. > :12:58.California. Reports of at least 20 people being wounded in this gun

:12:59. > :13:02.attack. Talk of between one and maybe as many as three active

:13:03. > :13:08.shooters, as police say, still at large. Police making that comment

:13:09. > :13:12.public in the last little while. This is the shot from close to the

:13:13. > :13:19.scene. One man says that his daughter is trapped in a building.

:13:20. > :13:24.We can hear what he is saying now? My daughter is in there. She texts

:13:25. > :13:28.it is about 30 minutes ago and said that there was a shooter. She

:13:29. > :13:38.thought he had shot ten to 20 people. And they were... (INAUDIBLE)

:13:39. > :13:42.Terry Petty talking about the fact that his daughter was inside the

:13:43. > :13:46.building, where we think the shooters are at large, and others

:13:47. > :13:51.may well be hiding in there as well. Gary O'Donoghue is following the

:13:52. > :13:57.events from Washington. Very early stages in terms of details, what do

:13:58. > :14:01.you have? At the moment, we are still looking at what looks like an

:14:02. > :14:09.active situation, what the Americans turn and active shooter or

:14:10. > :14:15.shooters. There could be up to three people. There have been reports that

:14:16. > :14:19.at least one of them may have been seen leaving the area of the

:14:20. > :14:25.shooting in a black SUV, a black four x four car, that is unconfirmed

:14:26. > :14:30.at this stage. There are reports of up to 20 victims, some of them

:14:31. > :14:35.saying a dozen Vitalis ease. Nothing of that is confirmed that this stage

:14:36. > :14:41.-- some of them are saying a dozen Vitalis ease. Police are evacuating,

:14:42. > :14:47.people are being evacuated from the area of San Bernardino, where this

:14:48. > :14:53.has taken place. It is a fairly big place. A population of 200 those

:14:54. > :14:59.and, it is a medium-sized city. This was coming up to lunchtime. It had

:15:00. > :15:05.been pretty busy around that area. -- of around 200,000. We know that

:15:06. > :15:09.the shooting took base in something called the England Regional Centre,

:15:10. > :15:14.it looks like quite a big tilting. At least part of that ill doing is

:15:15. > :15:21.used to look after disabled children. We had a man who said his

:15:22. > :15:25.wife works in that Golding, who had heard people coming and shooting,

:15:26. > :15:29.they had locked themselves in their office, seen bodies on the floor. We

:15:30. > :15:34.know that the emergency services have been evacuating some of the

:15:35. > :15:40.injured. There is still a good deal of confusion about exactly what is

:15:41. > :15:44.going on in San Bernardino, this is clearly a major, major incident. We

:15:45. > :15:50.have no idea at this stage what the motivation might be. There are

:15:51. > :15:55.reports that the gunman or gunman web apps wearing body armour,

:15:56. > :16:04.creating a degree of organisation and planning -- the gunman or gunmen

:16:05. > :16:07.were perhaps wearing body armour. It seems like something serious is

:16:08. > :16:18.happening, we are waiting to find out more facts.

:16:19. > :16:25.The pictures point towards some confusion as we watch people moving

:16:26. > :16:31.away into a large group. We can see the fire engine on the street. The

:16:32. > :16:34.authority figures as well. We played that little clip from the man

:16:35. > :16:40.worried about his daughter which perfectly illustrates how much

:16:41. > :16:49.anxiety there must be amongst people who know that they have got a loved

:16:50. > :16:56.1's inside this building. It is that anxiety that has reinforced by the

:16:57. > :17:01.ability for people to communicate from a fine these situations to the

:17:02. > :17:04.loved ones outside. Some of the fear that they argument is communicated

:17:05. > :17:11.to those on the outside and that is what we are seeing here. We have

:17:12. > :17:15.earlier from a man whose wife was inside the Inland Regional Centre.

:17:16. > :17:21.There is a long way to go to find out what is happening. We are not

:17:22. > :17:24.clear as to whether the police have went anywhere near to the people

:17:25. > :17:29.doing the shooting, whether they have left the area at this point in

:17:30. > :17:32.time. We know that the roads have been closed immediately around where

:17:33. > :17:39.the shooting took place. That does not mean that the people did not get

:17:40. > :17:43.out before that happened. The police are trying to clear the area of

:17:44. > :17:48.people so that they can search it properly. They will need to go

:17:49. > :17:54.through the area bit by bit, foot by foot, making sure that the place is

:17:55. > :18:01.safe. The ambulances will want to get into the move those who are

:18:02. > :18:05.injured. That is before any kind of calm can be re-established in the

:18:06. > :18:11.area. It is difficult to know. The atmosphere in San Bernardino must be

:18:12. > :18:16.one panic at the moment. No one knows exactly, it appears that no

:18:17. > :18:27.one knows where the gunmen or the poodle gun men are at the moment. We

:18:28. > :18:31.do not know if this is organised or political. If it is political

:18:32. > :18:35.vendetta has the potential for further attacks in the area and that

:18:36. > :18:39.is something the police will be a weird off if they have not been able

:18:40. > :18:53.to apprehend the shooters. Thank you very much. I was reading one quote

:18:54. > :18:56.from a nearby gas station about one block from the shooting we are the

:18:57. > :19:00.store manager talked about a flood of police activity. She said maybe

:19:01. > :19:06.150 people going towards a particular street. She's book about

:19:07. > :19:13.hospitality Lane in the area. She said personally but she did not have

:19:14. > :19:20.any instructions to see inside the customers coming in with telling her

:19:21. > :19:32.about the shootings. -- to stay inside. The centre provides care for

:19:33. > :19:36.people with disabilities. Still a great deal of information to come.

:19:37. > :19:43.We will bring that to you as and when we can. In the meantime, the

:19:44. > :19:49.main issue of the evening is the debate in Westminster. Let us go

:19:50. > :19:54.back. The debate in the chamber of the House of Commons reaching its

:19:55. > :19:59.conclusion. We expect the voting to begin around 10pm. It has been a

:20:00. > :20:05.powerful and passionate arguments on both sides. Syria meanwhile,

:20:06. > :20:11.President Assad has dismissed the significance of Western air strikes

:20:12. > :20:14.against Islamic State targets. The only meaningful intervention he

:20:15. > :20:29.says, is from Russia which has changed the situation.

:20:30. > :20:35.It has not even been on the evening news. That is a measure of how many

:20:36. > :20:42.players are involved in this tangled conflict. And just how hard life is

:20:43. > :20:46.for Syrians and that they are focusing on getting by. Everyone I

:20:47. > :20:51.asked the question to about possible British action welcomed it will stop

:20:52. > :20:57.in this capital which is largely under government control, there also

:20:58. > :21:00.was a warning. Unless the campaign was coordinated with President Assad

:21:01. > :21:05.and the Syrian army, it would not work. That is what Russia is doing.

:21:06. > :21:09.That is what the West and the Arab states backing the opposition

:21:10. > :21:13.refused to do. They are blaming President Assad and his forces for

:21:14. > :21:17.the bombardment that is prolonging the war. There is a heady sense

:21:18. > :21:29.amongst people here think the war is going to drag on. I am joined

:21:30. > :21:34.outside the house is of Parliament by the head of the political

:21:35. > :21:42.research for YouGov and Kaplan Dixon who is programme director of

:21:43. > :21:45.transparency International. Latest talk about the question of whether

:21:46. > :21:50.Britain should join the air strikes in Syria. What is the latest rolling

:21:51. > :21:55.evidence? The latest evidence show that just under half of people think

:21:56. > :21:59.we should take action, air strikes in Syria. One third of people are

:22:00. > :22:03.opposed. That is a big change over what we have been seeing over the

:22:04. > :22:09.last couple of months we are six out of ten people supported air strikes.

:22:10. > :22:14.And one in five people were opposed. Big change in the last seven days.

:22:15. > :22:19.At this stage, it is not where public opinion is now is important,

:22:20. > :22:23.it is where the opinion will be at the end of any action if it does

:22:24. > :22:27.take place. What do you put that recent change down to? It is

:22:28. > :22:32.impossible to say precisely but my sense is that up until the last

:22:33. > :22:37.week, people had the bright idea that ISIS was a threat to Britain.

:22:38. > :22:42.-- broad idea. And something had to be done. They were not quite sure

:22:43. > :22:46.what and air strikes read a convenient short cut. Over the last

:22:47. > :22:52.seven days they have started thinking about it. People are

:22:53. > :22:55.thinking, is this necessarily the right solution? What about ground

:22:56. > :23:06.troops? People are evenly divided on going fruits. -- ground troops. What

:23:07. > :23:13.are your thoughts? The Commons about to vote in a couple of hours' time

:23:14. > :23:18.for air strikes over Syria. This took us looks like a short-term

:23:19. > :23:22.plan. As the boat goes on behind us we should remember that no skill of

:23:23. > :23:27.efforts to head back to those who would seek to do us harm would solve

:23:28. > :23:31.the problem. In the long term, we have to tackle the causes of

:23:32. > :23:35.radicalisation in the Middle East. That ultimately is the corrupt and

:23:36. > :23:40.unaccountable governments that are spread across the region. That is in

:23:41. > :23:43.the long-term. David Cameron would say in the short term we have to

:23:44. > :23:48.protect our citizens and the best way to do that is by hitting Islamic

:23:49. > :23:52.State. Davis Tull doubt that our defence and security institutions

:23:53. > :23:56.need to take action to keep us safe. As the boat goes on we have to think

:23:57. > :24:02.about what happens tomorrow and how in the long term we create ability

:24:03. > :24:09.in that region. People join a radical movements when they lose

:24:10. > :24:14.total faith in people in power. You wonder if any government outside of

:24:15. > :24:22.said Jeff has the power to influence it for the better in any way? This

:24:23. > :24:25.is a problem. It is of our making. We have poured in security

:24:26. > :24:30.assistance to corrupt governments and we have engaged in defence

:24:31. > :24:34.sales. We now have little hope of containing the weapons that have

:24:35. > :24:38.been unleashed across the region and we have to think about tomorrow and

:24:39. > :24:42.our foreign policy to secure stability across the Middle East.

:24:43. > :24:46.Public opinion, to what extent do you think the Iraq war and the

:24:47. > :24:51.massive national debate that there was before and after the Iraq war,

:24:52. > :24:57.has that covered public perceptions about whether or not British forces

:24:58. > :25:00.should intervene in Syria? The point about long-term change is important.

:25:01. > :25:07.In advance of the Iraq war, the majority of people, small majority,

:25:08. > :25:10.believed we should be going to war. Lots of been lost since then and

:25:11. > :25:17.there are reasons why people thought that. The situation changed on the

:25:18. > :25:23.ground. We know from our work in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in Libya,

:25:24. > :25:27.that the situation on the ground can change public opinion massively in a

:25:28. > :25:32.short period of time. People can start off on the right side of

:25:33. > :25:35.public opinion as Tony Blair was in Iraq but years down the line, you

:25:36. > :25:43.can find that you are on the wrong side of public opinion at the end.

:25:44. > :25:47.We have seen with Iraq and Libya, it is one thing to start military

:25:48. > :25:53.action but we had it goes, the endgame is very difficult indeed? We

:25:54. > :25:59.have seen chaos in Iraq and Libya. Iraq is a very good case in point.

:26:00. > :26:04.We went in with the right intentions but one decade of spending and

:26:05. > :26:07.security assistance to that army, it disintegrated at the first sign of

:26:08. > :26:13.battle. We have to think about the day after and how we build integrity

:26:14. > :26:17.into the governments that we are supporting for the long-term. The

:26:18. > :26:21.vote tonight, how important is that for the government to get a solid

:26:22. > :26:25.majority? Might that influence public opinion in the sense that

:26:26. > :26:31.Parliament appears to be behind this military action if it does vote yes?

:26:32. > :26:46.It has the potential to do so. If the country appears divided through

:26:47. > :26:49.Parliament, if Parliament is divided then it could be that the people

:26:50. > :26:52.say, I want to think about it more. It is really difficult to say. At

:26:53. > :26:55.this stage, people are starting to think about it. Public opinion is

:26:56. > :26:57.moving all over the place. It could be we see a rallying around the flag

:26:58. > :27:00.of the opposite. It is interesting that MPs, the vote according to the

:27:01. > :27:05.conscience, I wonder to what extent they are influenced by their

:27:06. > :27:09.constituents? MPs say they represent their constituents but also listen

:27:10. > :27:12.to the comp -- conscience, they never listen to the polls in the

:27:13. > :27:16.same way that actors say they never read the reviews. All of these

:27:17. > :27:21.things go into consideration. They will have to think very hard about

:27:22. > :27:28.FTR going to be elected next time based on this. Nobody wants going

:27:29. > :27:36.around -- put around their neck that Tony Blair had. It is an important

:27:37. > :27:43.day. To reflect on this government and governments across the Japan US,

:27:44. > :27:46.make sure we do not support the president Qaddafi of President

:27:47. > :27:52.Mubarak of the future. The start of the Arab Spring, the public anger at

:27:53. > :27:56.least art -- and the abuse of power and we should reflect on policies in

:27:57. > :28:29.the future. Good to talk to both of you. Our correspondent has been

:28:30. > :28:34.speaking from Cyprus. After the news that the US government said that

:28:35. > :28:40.their hopes that the UK MPs would support military action, I put it to

:28:41. > :28:43.him that UK jets could be in action. There will be that political

:28:44. > :28:56.pressure first of all back at home that the RAF is seen to make a

:28:57. > :29:04.difference to this fight. There is also pressure from America. They

:29:05. > :29:10.want Britain to take part. In part because the -- Britain has

:29:11. > :29:17.capabilities, the Brimstone missile which has a low blast area and can

:29:18. > :29:20.target moving cars, vehicles etc. And they have these raptor pods

:29:21. > :29:26.which give surveillance. They can provide intelligence to the battle

:29:27. > :29:31.on the ground. There are capabilities that the UK brings. We

:29:32. > :29:36.will see tonight, if there is a yes vote, RAF tornadoes here from

:29:37. > :29:42.Akrotiri in the skies on a mission over Syria. They may have been given

:29:43. > :29:47.pre-selected targets by the US-led coalition. We will get news on that

:29:48. > :29:52.in the morning if there is indeed a yes vote. They were also be

:29:53. > :29:57.reinforcements coming here if there is a yes vote. There will be another

:29:58. > :30:02.two tornadoes to add to the eight that are already here and there will

:30:03. > :30:06.be six Typhoon jets coming probably from RAF Lossiemouth. The Typhoon

:30:07. > :30:11.jet does not fire the Brimstone missile. Only the tornado can do

:30:12. > :30:17.that. They can drop the laser-guided bombs that can hit static targets.

:30:18. > :30:20.We have a larger blast area. The RAF say that they do not think and

:30:21. > :30:24.cannot prove that because they do not have people on the ground, that

:30:25. > :30:30.they have not caused any civilian casualties.

:30:31. > :30:37.Jonathan, in some ways this will not be a dramatic extension of the RAF

:30:38. > :30:42.mission, it is a continuation of what they have done anyway against

:30:43. > :30:47.Islamic State targets in Iraq? You have the drama at Westminster, that

:30:48. > :30:51.will not reflected in the military campaign, certainly not immediately.

:30:52. > :30:55.This will not be shock and awe, for example, it will be what the RAF has

:30:56. > :30:59.been doing over Iraq for the past year. To give you a sense of what

:31:00. > :31:04.has happened, they have carried out six 200 combat sorties, not just the

:31:05. > :31:08.planes here but those unmanned Reaper aircraft from a base in the

:31:09. > :31:13.Middle East, there are ten of them. They carried out 1600 combat sorties

:31:14. > :31:19.but only fired their weapons on about a quarter of those missions,

:31:20. > :31:24.fewer than 400 air strikes. What happened in Iraq is likely to happen

:31:25. > :31:29.in Syria. There have been fewer as strikes in Syria for the whole

:31:30. > :31:33.coalition than four Iraq. They have people on the ground there, the

:31:34. > :31:37.Peshmerga, the Iraqi security forces, to call in those air

:31:38. > :31:42.strikes. They don't have the same force on the ground, for the moment

:31:43. > :31:46.at least, in Syria. You will not see a June two difference to what the

:31:47. > :31:51.RAF has been doing. You will see more planes and aircraft. -- you

:31:52. > :31:57.will not see a dramatic difference. It is similar to what the RAF has

:31:58. > :32:04.already done for the last year. Jonathan Beale reporting from RAF

:32:05. > :32:09.Akrotiri. I am joined by Patrick Cockburn, Middle East correspondence

:32:10. > :32:15.for the Independent newspaper and author of The Rise Of Islamic State.

:32:16. > :32:21.He was quoted in the Commons by one MP. We are coming up to the vote,

:32:22. > :32:29.what are your thoughts? I thought it was good, that all different

:32:30. > :32:36.arguments came out. You know... People are clear what a monstrous

:32:37. > :32:42.organisation Isis is, that it should be eliminated, but I think that

:32:43. > :32:47.people don't quite take on board that it is quite strong, and how

:32:48. > :32:54.difficult this will be to do, and how we don't really have partners on

:32:55. > :32:59.the ground. That is my main fear, just as in Iraq and Afghanistan we

:33:00. > :33:04.imagined we had local allies, that were either very feeble all

:33:05. > :33:08.basically fictitious. Your piece in the Independent today said it was

:33:09. > :33:16.wishful thinking. David Cameron has talked about 70,000 moderate Syrian

:33:17. > :33:22.fighters, potentially taking on IS after air strikes, you think that is

:33:23. > :33:27.wishful thinking? It certainly is. If you went out in Syria today with

:33:28. > :33:32.a few suitcases of money, you could find 70,000 fighters. But often

:33:33. > :33:36.these are guys with a rusty Kalashnikov, they are guys following

:33:37. > :33:41.their local plan or their local tribal leader or their local

:33:42. > :33:44.village. Certainly it is announced that they are in favour of the

:33:45. > :33:50.rulers. These are very local fellows. Maybe they hate Isis, they

:33:51. > :33:55.hate Assad, but they hate the next village even more. The basic subtext

:33:56. > :34:00.of this is we have a potential army here which means we don't have to

:34:01. > :34:04.choose between Isis and Assad. There is another third force that can come

:34:05. > :34:09.in and save us and we will ally ourselves with that, that will be OK

:34:10. > :34:15.and we will have a potential ally, but it is just not there. David

:34:16. > :34:20.Cameron says the only way to destroy Isis is to cut off the snake pars

:34:21. > :34:25.head, as he puts it, in Syria. Do you accept that? It is a gorilla

:34:26. > :34:36.macro organisation, the whole point of that is there is more than one

:34:37. > :34:45.snake pars head. Yes, Rakip, -- Raqqa, but Iraqi cities are bigger.

:34:46. > :34:48.I don't think there is an Isis Pentagon in the Raqqa that we can

:34:49. > :34:57.isolate and band. We know that guerrila organisations -- guerrilla

:34:58. > :35:01.organisations do not work like that. It is decentralised, they are units

:35:02. > :35:07.of eight to ten men. Their mission comes from their leader, then they

:35:08. > :35:11.attack and do what they want. There is not a central organisation that

:35:12. > :35:17.you can wipe it out and cut off the snake pars head in quite a precise

:35:18. > :35:23.way. Patrick Cockburn, thank you for being with us.

:35:24. > :35:29.The debate is continuing in the chamber, the vote is that just after

:35:30. > :35:36.10pm but, for now, I will take you back to Julian in the studio.

:35:37. > :35:40.At this point I can update as far as we can on events in California with

:35:41. > :35:45.regards to this shooting incident, police are saying they are searching

:35:46. > :35:52.for one or all gunman after a shooting at a social services the

:35:53. > :35:56.city that macro facility in San Bernardino, about 60 miles east of

:35:57. > :36:03.Los Angeles. There are now reports that three people have died in this

:36:04. > :36:08.incident. The first of those reports came from an NBC affiliate reporter

:36:09. > :36:16.who said that he had seen three bodies at that shooting, and not

:36:17. > :36:20.long after that another media organisation was talking about law

:36:21. > :36:25.enforcement officers saying that three people had died in that

:36:26. > :36:28.shooting incident. I am just looking at a line coming out of Washington,

:36:29. > :36:34.that President Obama has been briefed on this mass shooting,

:36:35. > :36:38.according to a White House official, and these are live shots that I am

:36:39. > :36:43.showing you as you are updating, so you can see the activity on the

:36:44. > :36:47.ground in terms of the number of vehicles parked up, the emergency

:36:48. > :36:54.services vehicles and the crowds, some of whom are gathering on that

:36:55. > :36:59.Carmack 's top Park -- tarmac car park, which I imagine is a safe

:37:00. > :37:03.assembly point identified by the authorities, but it appears to be an

:37:04. > :37:08.ongoing incident and no arrests have been made as far as I am aware. Let

:37:09. > :37:14.me bring in our correspondents in Washington. I have given a few

:37:15. > :37:20.little pinpoints of the latest information, bring us up to date on

:37:21. > :37:25.other aspects? To recover the police have told us, they say they are

:37:26. > :37:30.searching for up to three gunmen, and this remains what they describe

:37:31. > :37:34.in the US as an active shooter situation, meaning it is very much

:37:35. > :37:40.an ongoing police incident. They are still searching for the suspect.

:37:41. > :37:46.They have a large perimeter involved in their search. They say they are

:37:47. > :37:50.trying to secure the building. Some of the pictures that you may see

:37:51. > :37:54.show that many people have left the building. From what with the cis

:37:55. > :37:57.have been telling local news in the area, many people are still trapped

:37:58. > :38:02.in the building -- from what witnesses have been telling. One man

:38:03. > :38:07.told the local news station that his wife works in that centre and saw

:38:08. > :38:14.bodies on the floor, she did not see the gunmen herself but she said she

:38:15. > :38:19.heard shots and she is holed up in her office as police searched the

:38:20. > :38:23.building to try to secure it. Another witness told local news that

:38:24. > :38:28.his daughter worked at the centre, he got a text from her saying she

:38:29. > :38:32.was hiding while there were gunshots. It is unclear at the

:38:33. > :38:40.moment how many people worked in that centre. Local media says as

:38:41. > :38:43.many as 200 people. It was a centre for people with disabilities and

:38:44. > :38:48.learning difficulties. I am looking at another report as you were

:38:49. > :38:53.talking, this is a San Bernardino police officer quoted as saying, and

:38:54. > :38:58.this is a mess and the talking about this, that a suspect is still at

:38:59. > :39:05.large wearing tactical gear and potentially heavily armed. -- and

:39:06. > :39:10.this is MSNBC talking about this. We do not know how many people were

:39:11. > :39:13.involved and if they are at large. Eyesores in thing not too long ago

:39:14. > :39:18.from the local sheriff who says that police do not know whether Head are

:39:19. > :39:25.but they believe they are heavily armed. They believe they could be

:39:26. > :39:29.looking at up to three people. That is one of their concerns. They say

:39:30. > :39:33.officers are still in the building doing a complete search, but they

:39:34. > :39:36.say there is the possibility that they are wearing some kind of body

:39:37. > :39:42.armour and are heavily armed themselves. Judging from the live

:39:43. > :39:47.pictures that you will have seen, this is quite a big area will stop

:39:48. > :39:51.it is a sizeable town will stop people may not have heard of San

:39:52. > :39:59.Bernardino, but it is sizeable within reach of Los Angeles. Yes,

:40:00. > :40:03.and their search barometer is fairly wide in terms of the areas that they

:40:04. > :40:08.are searching at the moment, not just the centre sell. San Bernardino

:40:09. > :40:14.is around 60 miles east of Los Angeles, a population of around two

:40:15. > :40:20.thirds -- 200,000. Struggled to rebound after 2012 when it declared

:40:21. > :40:30.bankrupt the, and it is about 214,000, to be specific. Some

:40:31. > :40:33.economic problems in the area. This centre was for people with

:40:34. > :40:38.disabilities and learning difficulties. Witnesses say around

:40:39. > :40:41.200 people worked there. From all accounts, from what we are hearing

:40:42. > :40:46.from local news, there are people hiding inside the building in their

:40:47. > :40:52.offices while police deem this an active shooter situation. Rajini

:40:53. > :40:57.Vaidyanathan, thank you. The president has been briefed on events

:40:58. > :41:01.in California. Just a quote, he has been briefed by his homeland

:41:02. > :41:07.security adviser Lisa Monaco about the shooting and has asked to be

:41:08. > :41:09.updated on the situation as it develops, that is a White House

:41:10. > :41:15.official quoted in the last few moments. Three people reported to

:41:16. > :41:19.have been killed in that shooting, others wounded. It is still very

:41:20. > :41:26.much an ongoing situation in terms of the number of vehicles and

:41:27. > :41:32.emergency services personnel. People in the middle of the shots have been

:41:33. > :41:36.assembled, presumably in a safe area away from where the shooting

:41:37. > :41:40.incident took place. Still a huge question as to the whereabouts of

:41:41. > :41:46.the individuals concerned. It may be one shooter or as many as three.

:41:47. > :41:51.Police still have not made, we are told, any arrests. We will obviously

:41:52. > :41:55.keep you abreast of all the events in California as we can throughout

:41:56. > :41:59.the evening, that in the meantime, let's return to Ben Brown at

:42:00. > :42:03.Westminster. Thank you, Julian. About an hour or

:42:04. > :42:09.so to go on the debate on whether or not Britain should take part in air

:42:10. > :42:16.strikes against Islamic State in Syria. We expect a vote at around

:42:17. > :42:20.10pm. An amendment, first ball, MPs will vote on, then the main

:42:21. > :42:24.Government motion, we should get the results at around about 10:30pm. A

:42:25. > :42:28.to a climax. Outside the Palace of to a climax. Outside the Palace of

:42:29. > :42:34.Westminster there has been a demonstration this evening, many of

:42:35. > :42:38.the Stop the War Coalition demonstrators and protesters from

:42:39. > :42:43.other groups, many of them are lying on the road to symbolise what they

:42:44. > :42:48.say would be the dead civilians, people who would be killed if there

:42:49. > :42:55.are RAF air strikes over IS targets in rack and other parts of Syria.

:42:56. > :42:56.The demonstration has been continuing, several hundred

:42:57. > :42:59.protesters in Parliament Square. Our chief political correspondent

:43:00. > :43:11.Vicki Young is in Parliament's As we say, the vote is expected at

:43:12. > :43:16.about 10:30pm. What would represent, for David Cameron, a good night? I

:43:17. > :43:21.think they are looking for dozens of Labour MPs to back them. There is a

:43:22. > :43:25.difference in how both sides are operating. On the Conservative

:43:26. > :43:31.side, MPs are being whipped, told what to do, by party managers. On

:43:32. > :43:36.the other, Labour has a free vote. The Tories will expect maybe ten or

:43:37. > :43:42.15 to defy that whip, on the Labour sided looks like there will be

:43:43. > :43:47.dozens of Labour MPs speaking out. One of the factors we have heard

:43:48. > :43:50.about a loss is Labour MPs who want to back the Government are feeling

:43:51. > :43:56.like they are coming under pressure from party activist, some of which

:43:57. > :43:59.has been pretty distasteful, they feel they are under pressure, many

:44:00. > :44:04.say they will vote according to conscience. David Cameron has sat in

:44:05. > :44:09.there for several hours today listing to watch people had to say.

:44:10. > :44:12.If you look and listen to this Labour backbencher, you can see his

:44:13. > :44:18.response as she makes her case, saying she will support him. I

:44:19. > :44:22.believe, Mr Speaker, that we are right to be sceptical of our own

:44:23. > :44:26.capacities, that I don't think we should be sceptical of the Syrian

:44:27. > :44:30.people. Rather, we should offer them refuge now and I were backing

:44:31. > :44:35.tomorrow. Whatever choice we all make, we had to live with it, and I

:44:36. > :44:39.will have to face my constituents and explain myself to them on the

:44:40. > :44:43.decision I take, but that is absolutely nothing in comparison to

:44:44. > :44:49.what the Syrian people have faced. Too much in the past five years, I

:44:50. > :44:53.think, we have seen those in need and turned away, and we must not

:44:54. > :44:57.now. I might not trust the Prime Minister that much, Mr Speaker, that

:44:58. > :45:02.in the end the solution to that mistrust is in my hands. If I vote

:45:03. > :45:04.for his motion today, I want him to know that I will be here every week

:45:05. > :45:16.holding him to account. You can hear some concern from

:45:17. > :45:21.Labour MPs, even those who will vote for it strikes. They do is talk

:45:22. > :45:28.about 70,000 troops on the ground who are not extremists and the West

:45:29. > :45:31.might be able to work with them. Bit of scepticism about that. The shadow

:45:32. > :45:38.of the Iraq war is hanging over this place. They are thinking very

:45:39. > :45:42.carefully about the decision. Joining us now from Nottingham is

:45:43. > :45:46.Fadi Al-Dairi, country director for Hand in Hand for Syria - a charity

:45:47. > :46:02.which sends aid to 90% of the What are your thoughts on as

:46:03. > :46:07.Parliament debates whether to carry out air strikes on your country in

:46:08. > :46:15.Syria? We totally oppose any strikes. Clearly, civilians would be

:46:16. > :46:21.affected. As humanitarians, we stress we could not cope with it any

:46:22. > :46:24.more. There are civilians caught up in ISIS controlled areas and they

:46:25. > :46:30.will be a target. They cannot leave as they have nowhere else to go.

:46:31. > :46:35.They have no one to look after them. We need to look at the root cause of

:46:36. > :46:40.the problem, who created ISIS and why are they there before you can

:46:41. > :46:43.target them all? We have to look at any previous air strikes. Some

:46:44. > :46:46.governments have been bombing Syria for the last year and have they

:46:47. > :46:52.achieved anything, what difference will we make if we interfere?

:46:53. > :46:57.Without any ground interference, the air strikes will not achieve their

:46:58. > :47:01.targets, what we hoped for. And the ground achievement can only be done

:47:02. > :47:06.by the Syrians. Let the Syrians sort themselves out and they need

:47:07. > :47:12.support. They need support from the UK and the Americans, and other

:47:13. > :47:17.countries. You accept that Islamic State, ISIS, are a murderous

:47:18. > :47:22.organisation, a death cult they have been called, surely the best way to

:47:23. > :47:32.tackle it, one of the easiest ways, is with air strikes over its

:47:33. > :47:44.headquarters in Iraq? Of course. -- Raqqa. For the Syrian people, they

:47:45. > :47:48.are equally more criminal. They have to look at how many more people have

:47:49. > :47:54.been killed by the government of Syria than killed by ISIS.

:47:55. > :47:58.Supporters of the government's plans on this would say, by attacking

:47:59. > :48:07.Islamic State in Iraq, it has been weakened. Western forces, including

:48:08. > :48:11.British forces, could weaken IES even more if they could attack it in

:48:12. > :48:17.Syria. Supporters could sit in the UK and the side about weakening, it

:48:18. > :48:22.is about what is on the ground. Is it going to work? The Syrian people

:48:23. > :48:27.doubt it will work. It will strengthen ISIS. It will strengthen

:48:28. > :48:32.the government of Syria again. Why everybody is so quick to talk about

:48:33. > :48:40.military intervention and knock talk about peace? Nobody talks about

:48:41. > :48:44.empowering the Syrians to get rid of everyone who is causing any

:48:45. > :48:48.terrorist acts is behaving under the Serbian name. Part of the debate and

:48:49. > :48:51.part of the reasoning of the Prime Minister and government is that

:48:52. > :48:57.Islamic State have been killing British citizens and that is why

:48:58. > :49:01.they want to take action and also to protect British citizens against

:49:02. > :49:06.future terrorist attacks here. That is perfect and good. At the same

:49:07. > :49:09.time there is Syrian citizens being killed by ISIS. And different groups

:49:10. > :49:13.on the ground including the government of Syria. That is the

:49:14. > :49:16.view of the Syrian people on the ground. We have to look at both

:49:17. > :49:20.sides of the argument, not just one side. Good to talk to you and to get

:49:21. > :49:23.your thoughts. During the debate, the Labour leader

:49:24. > :49:27.Jeremy Corbyn insisted that public opinion was moving in his direction

:49:28. > :49:31.against the plans for British air strikes. But Mr Corbyn's opponents

:49:32. > :49:36.are still claiming that he is out of touch with the view of most people

:49:37. > :49:40.in the UK on how to tackle the threat of IS. Our home editor Mark

:49:41. > :49:43.Easton has been examining the state In Manchester's People's History

:49:44. > :49:54.Museum, a building celebrating democracy,

:49:55. > :50:00.a jury of undecided citizens gathers to reflect upon the case

:50:01. > :50:05.of dropping British bombs on Syria. When a friend

:50:06. > :50:08.and ally France has been struck Just go either direction

:50:09. > :50:17.and write your words. 16 people selected to reflect

:50:18. > :50:20.the diversity in the city share their hopes and

:50:21. > :50:24.fears on extending the UK military The initial comments produced

:50:25. > :50:28.a word cloud Is it right for the UK to join

:50:29. > :50:37.the air strikes on Syria? I really do not know,

:50:38. > :50:40.that is a dilemma we all must face. I want to promote peace and love,

:50:41. > :50:44.love for humanity, and I think the lives of the civilians, the innocent

:50:45. > :50:49.people in Syria are as valuable We all want peace and harmony but at

:50:50. > :50:56.the same time where is that going to You almost have to fight fire with

:50:57. > :51:04.fire and what choice do we have? I have two boys in the forces

:51:05. > :51:09.and they say that is what we joined But the thing is so many

:51:10. > :51:21.innocents will suffer, so many. Islamic State, so-called is

:51:22. > :51:26.extreme and restless... Using BBC News reports to remind

:51:27. > :51:29.them of the issues, jury members considered

:51:30. > :51:33.the moral case for air strikes. If this happened in Manchester,

:51:34. > :51:38.if this happened in London, would we expect other countries to

:51:39. > :51:41.come to our aid and support? The agreement is one of us is

:51:42. > :51:44.attacked, we are all attacked. It was Paris

:51:45. > :51:47.but could have been London. But it will not be stopped in

:51:48. > :51:58.its tracks, it will keep on going. Not if we do not do anything,

:51:59. > :52:04.if we sit on our hands. If something happened

:52:05. > :52:09.in this country, that tomorrow we would have to pick up our worldly

:52:10. > :52:12.goods and start marching down the If we are going to do air strikes,

:52:13. > :52:21.the refugees are just going to come We asked the jury to decide

:52:22. > :52:31.whether the military and strategic Air strikes by themselves will not

:52:32. > :52:38.make a blind bit of difference, I just think

:52:39. > :52:44.if we were to bomb Syria we will That is the fear

:52:45. > :52:48.of someone living in the country, I do not think

:52:49. > :52:58.the threat is any worse to us I just think bombing is

:52:59. > :53:04.too indiscriminate. We are dammed if we do and dammed

:53:05. > :53:08.if we do not, what is the answer? Well thank you all,

:53:09. > :53:15.you have demonstrated what Like the MPs in London we are

:53:16. > :53:19.going to ask you to vote. Should

:53:20. > :53:21.the UK conduct air strikes against Before they came, these 16

:53:22. > :53:33.citizens said they were undecided. A jury foreman was selected to

:53:34. > :53:35.deliver the final verdict. Eight people voted yes

:53:36. > :53:38.and eight people voted no so the result is a tie. The result

:53:39. > :53:42.because opinion polls of the UK is deeply divided on whether

:53:43. > :53:47.bombing Syria is the right policy. What all seem to agree upon however

:53:48. > :54:05.is there are no easy answers. The vote in the House of Commons

:54:06. > :54:09.will be shortly after 10pm after what has been a passionate and

:54:10. > :54:13.emotional debate in the Commons. Let us get a flavour from that debate.

:54:14. > :54:35.Opinion divided on all sides of the house.

:54:36. > :54:37.We are not bombing or planning to bomb Syria.

:54:38. > :54:40.My understanding as we are planning to bomb ISIS.

:54:41. > :54:42.In Syria, we are planning to take on that

:54:43. > :54:46.My goodness, coming from Northern Ireland, we know what it is

:54:47. > :54:50.We know what it is like to have to undergo that scrupulous nature

:54:51. > :54:52.of people trying to assess every movement that you take.

:54:53. > :54:55.I have great sympathy for the Prime Minister and the Government

:54:56. > :54:58.I have sympathy for all of those around us who have to take

:54:59. > :55:02.Whatever chamber they go through tonight or whatever lobby they go

:55:03. > :55:05.through because it is not an easy decision.

:55:06. > :55:10.The point that is always central in public debate here in the UK

:55:11. > :55:15.and in this House is the involvement in disastrous wars in cases deemed

:55:16. > :55:21.I am grateful for reporting the words of the retired US general

:55:22. > :55:23.Mike Flynn who ran the US defence intelligence agency,

:55:24. > :55:26."The more bombs that we dropped, that just fuels the conflict."

:55:27. > :55:29.That is very hard for some to hear but it is indeed the truth.

:55:30. > :55:33.There is no doubt that this is a very difficult and complex set

:55:34. > :55:39.However I will be voting to extend our air strikes to Syria this

:55:40. > :55:41.evening and I underline the fundamental issues that have

:55:42. > :55:48.The first one was does Daesh pose a clear and present danger to

:55:49. > :55:53.Daesh are an appalling terrorist group,

:55:54. > :55:56.they are responsible for terrible human rights abuses and war crimes.

:55:57. > :56:00.We have witnessed atrocities on the beaches of Tunisia,

:56:01. > :56:05.on the streets of Paris, Ankara and Beirut, and in the skies of Egypt.

:56:06. > :56:08.We know that seven Daesh plots against the UK have been

:56:09. > :56:15.I think there is no doubt that they pose a clear

:56:16. > :56:20.and present danger to the UK, at home and abroad, and to our allies.

:56:21. > :56:25.There have been many powerful speeches and I admire those people

:56:26. > :56:29.who have such a certainty of view about this which I do not share.

:56:30. > :56:34.I suspect for that reason that many people will find it difficult

:56:35. > :56:44.Many people in the country, many good people are full of doubts.

:56:45. > :56:47.I was talking to an Arab friend only yesterday who

:56:48. > :56:58.He said, you are not being honest, the British Parliament,

:56:59. > :57:02.you have to go to war if you want to on the basis that your friends

:57:03. > :57:06.Your closest friends and allies are French and the Americans.

:57:07. > :57:14.If that is what you want to do then you go ahead and do it.

:57:15. > :57:17.Bear this in mind, when you go to war, you almost certainly will

:57:18. > :57:32.not make any difference and you might make things a lot worse.

:57:33. > :57:38.November will be one of the mildest on record and one of the dullest. It

:57:39. > :57:45.was nice to see some sunshine coming in for today. This was one of many

:57:46. > :57:48.we had coming through with sunshine. Many southern areas had sunshine

:57:49. > :57:52.ahead of this weather front which has been meandering its way

:57:53. > :57:57.southwards. It will play with the weather for the next 24 hours. It

:57:58. > :58:02.will feel quite warm in the south compared to the cold air in the

:58:03. > :58:07.north. It is in hands in the rain. We asked a knit already. It will

:58:08. > :58:11.come across Wales and Northern Ireland through the night. There are

:58:12. > :58:14.some flood warnings in force. To the north of that, it is a cold night

:58:15. > :58:25.and we will start the Die Borussen frost and icy patches. Not to

:58:26. > :58:31.mention the potential for fog. By morning, we will start to feel the

:58:32. > :58:34.effect of that dream. Lots of study and standing water and leaning

:58:35. > :58:40.across North Wales. Further south, just like the day we have had. It

:58:41. > :58:46.would be mild and quickly give. We will see some brightness but the

:58:47. > :58:50.window will be smaller than today. The wind will be strengthening all

:58:51. > :58:54.the time with gales and severe gales across the headlines. It will push

:58:55. > :59:00.in and intensified the rain for Wales. Northern England and parts of

:59:01. > :59:06.the Midlands, southern Scotland, East and Northern Ireland. All areas

:59:07. > :59:14.with rain. The it is -- it is bright and cold. That rain comes through

:59:15. > :59:17.during the evening and since now temporarily across the Pennines and

:59:18. > :59:30.Southern uplands. It'll be a quieter to Friday. Driver much of England

:59:31. > :59:34.and Wales. -- dry for. The snowmelt will continue in the north with some

:59:35. > :59:39.flood warnings in Scotland. It will not just be wet, it will be windy

:59:40. > :59:41.with some stormy wind -- stormy weather coming through. It will stay

:59:42. > :00:05.top into Sunday. I'm Ben Brown live at Westminster,

:00:06. > :00:11.where in the next hour or so MPs vote on whether to launch British

:00:12. > :00:15.air strikes in Syria. Party leaders differ sharply over

:00:16. > :00:18.bombing - but agree on just how The action we propose is legal,

:00:19. > :00:23.it is necessary - and it is the right thing to do to

:00:24. > :00:30.keep our country safe. It's becoming increasingly

:00:31. > :00:32.clear that the Prime Minister's proposals for military action

:00:33. > :00:37.simply do not stack up. If MPs vote in favour

:00:38. > :00:55.of air strikes, military action I think that we will see tonight, if

:00:56. > :01:03.there is a gas vote, RAF tornadoes from Akrotiri on the skies -- if

:01:04. > :01:05.there is a yes vote, RAF Tornadoes from Akrotiri in the skies.

:01:06. > :01:08.The Government's claims that thousands of Syrian fighters on the

:01:09. > :01:11.ground are ready to join the fight against IS are being questioned.

:01:12. > :01:14.And this is the scene live in the House of Commons where MPs

:01:15. > :01:17.continue the debate - a final vote is expected later tonight.

:01:18. > :01:20.There is another hour or so of debate and then the vote at around

:01:21. > :01:22.10pm. Unconfirmed reports suggest up to 12

:01:23. > :01:31.people have been killed in a shooting incident

:01:32. > :01:33.in southern California. My daughter is in

:01:34. > :01:41.say around 20 are wounded. My daughter is in there, she texted

:01:42. > :01:46.is about 30 minutes ago and said there was a shooter. She thought he

:01:47. > :01:53.had shot ten to 20 people. And that they were hiding.

:01:54. > :02:14.At least one school is said to be in lockdown.

:02:15. > :02:17.Good evening and welcome to BBC News.

:02:18. > :02:20.We'll be with Ben at Westminster shortly for all the very latest

:02:21. > :02:23.but first back to our breaking news this evening and there are reports

:02:24. > :02:26.of multiple casualties in a shooting incident near a golf course

:02:27. > :02:41.And reports that up to 12 people may have died. There are reports of one

:02:42. > :02:46.to three active shooters who may still be at large. As we showed you

:02:47. > :02:51.some of the pictures from the incident earlier, I will try to

:02:52. > :02:55.update as best as I can with the latest information coming in from

:02:56. > :03:00.various news agencies. The shooting took place at a social services

:03:01. > :03:04.centre in Dan Burn Dino, a town 60 miles east of Los Angeles, a

:03:05. > :03:11.sizeable Towler of more than 200,000 people. -- of San Bernardino. One

:03:12. > :03:14.school is reported to be in lockdown, that is confirmed by

:03:15. > :03:21.reports from the others -- from the Associated Press. Other stores and

:03:22. > :03:25.buildings are in lockdown. Initially there were suggestions that three

:03:26. > :03:29.people had died, but now there are reports that as many as 12 people

:03:30. > :03:38.may have been killed. We are hearing for the report that several people

:03:39. > :03:43.locked themselves into offices and took cover as the shooting incident

:03:44. > :03:48.began. It comes three weeks after the Paris attacks that left 130

:03:49. > :03:53.people dead, unsurprisingly President Obama with very quickly

:03:54. > :03:57.briefed on the situation, specifically by his homeland

:03:58. > :04:01.security adviser, but I should stress that police are shedding no

:04:02. > :04:05.immediate light on a motive. The pictures that you can see were from

:04:06. > :04:09.a little earlier as people were wheeled away from the scene on

:04:10. > :04:15.various stretches, various gurneys. We were told that tree arch units

:04:16. > :04:20.were set up outside this inland regionals centre. It is a centre

:04:21. > :04:24.specifically serving people with what are described as developmental

:04:25. > :04:29.disabilities. While some were wheeled away on stretchers, as you

:04:30. > :04:36.saw, significant numbers of April were walking away the scene, in some

:04:37. > :04:41.cases, as you may have seen, walking away with their hands up being

:04:42. > :04:47.searched by police before being reunited with loved ones. This is

:04:48. > :04:51.the live scene in San Bernardino. You can see on either side of the

:04:52. > :04:56.road so many vehicles parked up, a police vehicle to the right. The

:04:57. > :05:01.implication of these pictures and so many other reports that I have read

:05:02. > :05:05.in the last half-hour or so is that this is very much an ongoing

:05:06. > :05:11.incidents, with the suggestion of one shooter, maybe as many as three,

:05:12. > :05:17.still possibly at large. Certainly no arrest has been made as far as

:05:18. > :05:23.these police report suggest. One of two eyewitness report is,

:05:24. > :05:31.inevitably, have been coming in. We have heard from a man called Terry

:05:32. > :05:34.whose daughter works at the centre, he got a text from her saying she

:05:35. > :05:39.was hiding in the building after hearing gunshots. He,

:05:40. > :05:45.understandably, was very emotional as he read the text for reporters

:05:46. > :05:50.out site the centre. It was a very bleak report that he read, people

:05:51. > :05:56.shot, pray for us, I am locked in an office. There was a quote from

:05:57. > :06:04.someone called markers, whose wife was in the building when the gunfire

:06:05. > :06:09.erupted. He said a shooter entered the building next to his wife 's

:06:10. > :06:14.office and opened fire, he is quoted to a local television station said

:06:15. > :06:21.simply they locked themselves in her office, they have seen bodies on the

:06:22. > :06:27.floor, adding that his wife was able to get out of the building unharmed.

:06:28. > :06:32.This live shot from significantly above the scene gives you a sense of

:06:33. > :06:39.the scale of the emergency service activity. This, of course, is

:06:40. > :06:44.lunchtime. It was late morning/lunchtime in San

:06:45. > :06:49.Bernardino, a sizeable city with a 200,000 population, 60 miles east of

:06:50. > :06:53.Los Angeles. This inland to the centre is a sizeable complex. One of

:06:54. > :07:00.two of the earlier shot you were looking at gives you a sense of the

:07:01. > :07:08.scale of the area and therefore the scale of the police activity. The

:07:09. > :07:13.San Bernardino police departments, Reuters reporting, a spokeswoman the

:07:14. > :07:20.police says that it appears there are multiple shooters in this

:07:21. > :07:27.Californian city, and that the attackers are described as being in

:07:28. > :07:31.military style attire which echoes a report that I read earlier on, a

:07:32. > :07:36.Reuters report, quoting the police department spokeswoman, talking

:07:37. > :07:42.about the attire of multiple shooters. There is not a figure

:07:43. > :07:48.given, but they are talking specifically about more than one.

:07:49. > :07:53.That is what Reuters as saying. We are hearing reports of possibly 12

:07:54. > :08:01.people dying in this shooting incident, we will keep you abreast

:08:02. > :08:04.of all of those events in the last few hours.

:08:05. > :08:07.Let's go back to Westminster as MPs continue to debate air strikes

:08:08. > :08:25.Thank you, junior and -- Julian Another 15 minutes or so before the

:08:26. > :08:30.vote, which is expected at around 10pm. The first one is on an

:08:31. > :08:38.amendment and the other one is on the main Usman 's motion -- the main

:08:39. > :08:44.Government motion. It has been a powerful and sometimes emotional

:08:45. > :08:49.debate. The debate was opened this morning by the Prime Minister, who

:08:50. > :08:54.warned that Britain could not afford to sit back and wait for an attack.

:08:55. > :08:58.He faced persistent criticism from opposition MPs because of what he

:08:59. > :09:04.said last night in a meeting with Tory backbenchers when he described

:09:05. > :09:08.those against air strikes, in his words, as terrorist sympathisers.

:09:09. > :09:11.Labour 's Jeremy Corbyn said the Government's plans were misguided

:09:12. > :09:17.and could make matters worse in Syria.

:09:18. > :09:20.We'll be bringing you more of the action in the House

:09:21. > :09:23.of Commons later this hour, but first here's a flavour of the -

:09:24. > :09:27.I'm absolutely clear that we must pursue a comprehensive strategy,

:09:28. > :09:28.that also includes political, diplomatic and humanitarian action.

:09:29. > :09:31.And I know that the long-term solution in Syria, as in Iraq,

:09:32. > :09:36.must ultimately be a government that represents all of its people.

:09:37. > :09:39.And one that can work with us to defeat the evil organisation of Isil

:09:40. > :09:45.But, Mr Speaker, notwithstanding all of this...

:09:46. > :09:48.Notwithstanding all of this, there is a simple question

:09:49. > :09:54.We face a fundamental threat to our security.

:09:55. > :09:56.Isil have brutally murdered British hostages.

:09:57. > :09:59.They've inspired the worst terrorist attack

:10:00. > :10:03.against British people since 7/7 on the beaches of Tunisia, and they've

:10:04. > :10:07.plotted atrocity after atrocity on the streets here at home.

:10:08. > :10:09.Since November last year our security services have foiled

:10:10. > :10:14.no further than seven different plots against our people.

:10:15. > :10:18.So this threat is very real, and the question is this - do we

:10:19. > :10:22.work with our allies to degrade and destroy this threat, and do we

:10:23. > :10:25.go after these terrorists in their heartlands, from where they are

:10:26. > :10:28.plotting to kill British people, or do we sit back and wait

:10:29. > :10:32.The Prime Minister's attempt to brand those who plan to vote

:10:33. > :10:36.against the Government as terrorist sympathisers both

:10:37. > :10:41.demeans the office of the Prime Minister and, I believe,

:10:42. > :10:45.undermines the seriousness of the deliberations we are having today.

:10:46. > :10:50.If the Prime Minister now wants to apologise for those remarks, I'd be

:10:51. > :11:06.Since, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is unmoved,

:11:07. > :11:09.we'll have to move on with the debate, and I hope...

:11:10. > :11:13.And I hope he will be stronger later to recognise that, yes,

:11:14. > :11:18.he did make an unfortunate remark last night, and apologising for it

:11:19. > :11:22.would be very helpful to improve the atmosphere of this debate today.

:11:23. > :11:26.The Prime Minister is facing an amendment signed

:11:27. > :11:33.by 110 members of this House, from six different political parties.

:11:34. > :11:36.I've examined that list very carefully.

:11:37. > :11:41.I cannot identify a single terrorist sympathiser among that list.

:11:42. > :11:49.Will he now apologise for his deeply insulting remarks?

:11:50. > :11:52.I've made very clear, this is about how we fight terrorism,

:11:53. > :11:56.and there is honour in any vote that honourable members make.

:11:57. > :12:01.Our French allies have explicitly asked us for support, and I invite

:12:02. > :12:07.the House to consider how we would feel, and what we would say if what

:12:08. > :12:11.took place in Paris had happened in London, if we had explicitly asked

:12:12. > :12:21.France for support and France had refused. These are

:12:22. > :12:29.These are genuinely extremely difficult, as well

:12:30. > :12:37.But it is the urgings of the United Nations and of the socialist

:12:38. > :12:40.government in France that, for me, have been the tipping point in my

:12:41. > :12:47.A gesture of solidarity, however sincerely meant, cannot be a

:12:48. > :12:56.Most defence committee members probably intend to vote

:12:57. > :13:02.for such air strikes, but I shall vote against air strikes in the

:13:03. > :13:06.absence of credible ground forces as ineffective and potentially

:13:07. > :13:16.dangerous, just as I voted against the proposal to bomb Assad in 2013.

:13:17. > :13:22.Indeed, the fact that the British government wanted to bomb first one

:13:23. > :13:28.side, and then the other in the same civil war in such a short space of

:13:29. > :13:41.time illustrates to my mind a vacuum at the heart of our strategy.

:13:42. > :13:48.That is just a flavour of the debate. The time for talking is

:13:49. > :13:52.almost over, the voting will be around at about 10pm. Our chief

:13:53. > :13:57.political correspondence Vicki Young is in the Central Lobby of armament.

:13:58. > :14:02.Talk as through the mechanics. There is an amendment and then the main

:14:03. > :14:07.motion? About there is a cross-party and and which would effectively

:14:08. > :14:12.block military action in Syria. It is a guide, I suppose, to the number

:14:13. > :14:15.of MPs against military action. Quite often the same people would

:14:16. > :14:21.not necessarily vote for the first one as the second. That will take

:14:22. > :14:25.about 15 minutes, then the second vote, so we are looking at about

:14:26. > :14:29.10:30pm for that result. The Government is very confident it will

:14:30. > :14:33.win this vote, a senior Cabinet ministers said they were pretty

:14:34. > :14:36.relaxed, they felt they had the numbers, there would be enough

:14:37. > :14:39.Labour MPs voting with the Government, taking the lead when

:14:40. > :14:44.they heard Alan Johnson and Margaret Rakip they felt that they probably

:14:45. > :14:50.swayed a number of votes in their favour. What has come through in

:14:51. > :14:54.this mammoth debate, I can't remember when a debate has gone on

:14:55. > :14:59.for so long, and Cameron has sat in for an awful lot of it, but you get

:15:00. > :15:03.the impression that MPs have thought hard. For those who went to the Iraq

:15:04. > :15:07.war vote and regretted it later, they thought very carefully. Also

:15:08. > :15:11.newly elected MPs, this is the biggest decision they have had to

:15:12. > :15:15.make since being elected in May, and for some of them it is very hard.

:15:16. > :15:24.This was one newly elected Conservative MP. Over ten years ago

:15:25. > :15:30.I marched with 1 million other people against the war. Today, I

:15:31. > :15:34.believe it is different, there is a United Nations resolution. There are

:15:35. > :15:41.Arab countries that will align with us. When I go through the yes

:15:42. > :15:44.lobby... It will be for the refugees and it will be for the security in

:15:45. > :15:54.Twickenham. You can hear the motion Twickenham. You can hear the motion

:15:55. > :15:58.for her. And certainly anxiety amongst MPs, even those who feel

:15:59. > :16:01.they are doing the right thing by voting for the extension of the

:16:02. > :16:06.retreat and chin. They are anxious about the repercussions and what the

:16:07. > :16:10.exit strategy will be. They are anxious about what will happen if

:16:11. > :16:15.Isil is degraded in Syria. Will that leave a gap for somebody to take

:16:16. > :16:19.over? There are lots of questions that many of them want answered.

:16:20. > :16:28.David Cameron will get his way tonight. You might be able to hear

:16:29. > :16:32.some of the protesters who are against British military action in

:16:33. > :16:36.Syria making their voices heard clear and loud outside the Palace of

:16:37. > :16:40.Westminster. We will have full coverage of the debate coming up on

:16:41. > :16:43.BBC News. We will go back to the studio. There is another big

:16:44. > :16:51.developing story tonight. Thank you very much. It is of course

:16:52. > :16:56.the story that as many as 12 people may have been shot in San

:16:57. > :17:01.Bernardino, California. As the gunmen opened fire at a social

:17:02. > :17:04.services centre in the city 60 miles east of Los Angeles. I am reading

:17:05. > :17:12.some more information that have Kemen. -- that have came in. The

:17:13. > :17:16.shooting happened whilst the Inland Regional Center was holding an event

:17:17. > :17:22.for county personnel inside an auditorium inside the building. The

:17:23. > :17:24.sand Bernardino police spokeswoman have said that the police have been

:17:25. > :17:30.told that at least one of the shooters, we are talking about the

:17:31. > :17:34.poll -- possibility of between one -the active shooters, the police

:17:35. > :17:39.unable to confirm, one of the shooters may have left the scene and

:17:40. > :17:45.what is being described as a black SUV. They are talking about multiple

:17:46. > :17:49.attackers one moment ago. One of them waving some sort of military

:17:50. > :17:56.outfit. There was the suggestion from one of the other police

:17:57. > :18:00.spokespeople. Let us bring in Hosea Rodriguez who is a local pastor and

:18:01. > :18:05.got his near to the scene of the shooting as possible to pray with

:18:06. > :18:11.the victims. Tell us more about what you have seen in this area in the

:18:12. > :18:16.last hour or so. It is definitely been chaos and calamity as families

:18:17. > :18:23.are gathered here waiting to hear from them once to find out if they

:18:24. > :18:25.are OK. We have seen them escort the rest of the people out of the

:18:26. > :18:31.building and to get them to a safer location. There are police vehicles

:18:32. > :18:38.everywhere. We are ready to offer prayer support to families who are

:18:39. > :18:40.need of it. There are community people out here and they are coming

:18:41. > :18:48.together in this hard time right now. Can you tell us a little bit

:18:49. > :18:55.more about this centre, how big it is, how many people may have been

:18:56. > :19:00.inside? From the bus-load that were loading up, there was quite a few

:19:01. > :19:04.people, about five buses of people that were in the centre. I do not

:19:05. > :19:10.know how big the actual building is. They definitely filled up about

:19:11. > :19:15.five buses full of people. The centre is a social services centre.

:19:16. > :19:20.Because of the nature of our city, there are quite a few people that

:19:21. > :19:25.use social services in the city and it was a hot commodity place at the

:19:26. > :19:34.moment. It was a prime target for people working. What sense have you

:19:35. > :19:39.got of the emergency services and the handling of the situation at

:19:40. > :19:49.this point? The corner that we are drawn is extremely secure. There are

:19:50. > :19:52.several different branches of the emergency services that are here,

:19:53. > :19:57.all coming together to try to figure out the solution and what exactly

:19:58. > :20:02.happened, and how we can help to make our city safer. We do not know

:20:03. > :20:05.afterwards. We have not here, all afterwards. We have not here, all

:20:06. > :20:08.coming together to try to figure out the solution and what exactly

:20:09. > :20:10.happened, and how we can help to make our city safer. We do not know

:20:11. > :20:13.what happened to the gunmen afterwards. We have not heard yet

:20:14. > :20:16.about -- all they are doing is letting us know they are working on

:20:17. > :20:20.things. Going back to where the conversation with us began, you will

:20:21. > :20:24.have came across people outside desperate for information about

:20:25. > :20:28.people inside, some able to communicate. We have had talks about

:20:29. > :20:31.what to people who read able to exchange messages with people

:20:32. > :20:36.trapped inside. People you work dealing with must have been

:20:37. > :20:46.desperate for news. Absolutely. Lots of tears. People scared of the

:20:47. > :20:53.unknown. The corner is full of people right now who are trying to

:20:54. > :20:56.reach people still. It is definitely a very active corner and we are as

:20:57. > :21:01.close to the building as we can get. They are maybe half a mile away from

:21:02. > :21:06.the building. We appreciate you coming on the line, thank you very

:21:07. > :21:10.much indeed. A local pastor who has went to the scene of the shooting at

:21:11. > :21:15.a hearing reports of it. And spoke to some of the people outside

:21:16. > :21:20.waiting for news of relatives inside. Let us bring in our

:21:21. > :21:27.correspondence in Washington. What is the latest you have heard? Police

:21:28. > :21:30.have been speaking in the last 20 minutes or so and they have given us

:21:31. > :21:35.a bit of an update about what has been happening. They say that loved

:21:36. > :21:40.ones need to stay away from the area whilst they get things under

:21:41. > :21:46.control. They say that all local agencies are working to try to find

:21:47. > :21:50.the gunmen. This is very much an ongoing situation, one which the

:21:51. > :21:55.police have invested a lot of resources in. They are still unable

:21:56. > :21:59.to find the gun men. They have said earlier they believe they are

:22:00. > :22:05.looking for 1-3 gunmen. They do not know how many. They think it could

:22:06. > :22:10.be up to the Mac. They have heard from witnesses who have reported

:22:11. > :22:14.that one of the attackers have -- has left the area in a black SUV but

:22:15. > :22:19.particular report. They are doing particular report. They are doing

:22:20. > :22:23.everything that they can. Top as well that one of them could have

:22:24. > :22:28.been in military attire, that was another line came out of the

:22:29. > :22:34.police. The police are saying that the gun are heavily armed. And are

:22:35. > :22:42.possibly wearing body armour. That was the words of the lease Sergeant.

:22:43. > :22:47.She said that it was not a safe area to be in and it is dangerous. What

:22:48. > :22:53.we are also healing is a little bit more about the centre itself, the

:22:54. > :22:57.Inland Regional Center. We have heard from an eyewitness who has

:22:58. > :23:02.told the media that there was a meeting of county personnel taking

:23:03. > :23:08.place at the time. And also a woman who barks orders from the Inland

:23:09. > :23:11.Regional Center also spoke to the media and said that the incident

:23:12. > :23:16.happened in the conference area and other people say it is the

:23:17. > :23:25.auditorium. She said it was an outside group that was renting that

:23:26. > :23:29.space today. She was not at the centre herself so she does not know

:23:30. > :23:32.who the outside group was but what she is saying and another witness

:23:33. > :23:39.also saying that an outside group had taken over that space lobby day

:23:40. > :23:43.and one witness saying it was county personnel who were in that area. A

:23:44. > :23:49.little bit more from witnesses about what exactly was going on at the

:23:50. > :23:53.centre. It is a centre for people with developmental difficulties and

:23:54. > :24:00.disabilities and witnesses say that as many as 200 people work in that

:24:01. > :24:05.building. Police are seeing that loved ones who are going to be

:24:06. > :24:10.building to find out how the family are who may well be inside the

:24:11. > :24:15.building are being urged to stay well away from the area. So that

:24:16. > :24:20.police can get a handle on it. It is very much an active shooter

:24:21. > :24:26.situation. That effectively means that the gun men or the individual

:24:27. > :24:29.man is still on the loose. That means it is an ongoing situation and

:24:30. > :24:34.DDT was we're getting from the police are dynamic the latest battle

:24:35. > :24:44.we have heard is the still looking for the gunmen. -- the details we

:24:45. > :24:55.are getting. Just to reiterate those local reports, local reports that as

:24:56. > :24:59.many as 12 people may have died. Let us go back to Westminster where that

:25:00. > :25:06.debate on air strikes in Syria is heading to a conclusion. Thank you.

:25:07. > :25:11.Just half an hour or so for MPs to have your say. About 150 MPs have

:25:12. > :25:14.spoken in the debate during the day that has been powerful and

:25:15. > :25:19.passionate at times. Sometimes emotional as well. We are still to

:25:20. > :25:22.hear from the Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn and the

:25:23. > :25:27.Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond. They will wind up the vote on the

:25:28. > :25:45.amendment and then the main government motion. What is the

:25:46. > :25:48.latest of the protesters? Good evening from Parliament Square where

:25:49. > :25:53.there has been lots of emotion and high passion. Thousands of

:25:54. > :26:00.demonstrators from the stop the War coalition have been protesting for

:26:01. > :26:03.the last three hours, Strom 6pm. There is tension and the atmosphere

:26:04. > :26:08.is rising as they get close to the climax at MPM. The crowd has

:26:09. > :26:15.diminished a little bit but still very vocal and still a large crowd.

:26:16. > :26:19.Banners from unions, churches and community groups and lots of

:26:20. > :26:24.individuals. Two of these individuals are joining me now. Why

:26:25. > :26:29.are you here today, why do you think it is important? I strongly oppose

:26:30. > :26:33.the bombing of Serbia. It is wrong that this government are hijacking

:26:34. > :26:37.the voices of the civilians of Syria and leading them into a situation

:26:38. > :26:41.that will cause mass categories. I am angry that the budgets are being

:26:42. > :26:45.cut in this country for hospitals and schools but there is suddenly

:26:46. > :26:52.money for arms and bombs, let us give peace a chance. The Prime

:26:53. > :26:55.Minister said earlier today that bombing Syria, bombing ISIS will

:26:56. > :27:04.make us safer in the UK. That is not true. In my opinion. He also able to

:27:05. > :27:08.us as terrorist sympathisers. We do not have sympathy with terrorists,

:27:09. > :27:12.it is with the civilians who will lose their lives, homes and

:27:13. > :27:18.communities and will exacerbate the refugee crisis gripping Europe. What

:27:19. > :27:22.they feel about the mood? It is likely that the vote will get

:27:23. > :27:26.through a little over 30 minutes. It is incredible to see so many people

:27:27. > :27:30.out as they were yesterday and the day before. No matter the outcome,

:27:31. > :27:37.we are praying from a no vote from the MPs but if we do not get one, it

:27:38. > :27:41.is prudent to see the opposition. Everyone can see that Labour could

:27:42. > :27:47.do a better job in four years' time when we fought again. The crowd

:27:48. > :27:52.chanting vote now and are calling out the individual names of MPs who

:27:53. > :27:56.will vote with the government. The code will stay here until 10pm and

:27:57. > :28:09.then well after. Thank you very much.

:28:10. > :28:18.Let us go back into the chamber before we hear from Hilary Benn, the

:28:19. > :28:21.Shadow Foreign Secretary. He is supporting air strikes and going

:28:22. > :28:25.against his party leader, Jeremy Corbyn. And then the Foreign

:28:26. > :28:29.Secretary himself, Philip Hammond. You can see that the chamber is

:28:30. > :28:33.packed as it has been for most of the day. It has been an intense

:28:34. > :28:36.debate and the Prime Minister has been there listening to the

:28:37. > :28:43.contributions, listening on the front bench very thoughtfully. Many

:28:44. > :28:48.MPs standing, waiting for the climax of this debate and then the vote

:28:49. > :28:53.which will start at 10pm with an amendment which would block military

:28:54. > :28:57.action. And then the vote on the main government motion which is

:28:58. > :29:03.proposed by the Prime Minister and other senior government figures. Let

:29:04. > :29:07.us listen to the debate. I condemned those people who have been

:29:08. > :29:11.intimidating members of this house over the vote tonight. I know that

:29:12. > :29:15.honourable members weigh these issues are very heavily and whatever

:29:16. > :29:20.side of the argument they come on, I get them my full respect. Mr

:29:21. > :29:29.Speaker, I have not been convinced by the government on the presence of

:29:30. > :29:33.70,000 moderate Iraqi army forces on the ground. I think the government

:29:34. > :29:37.has failed to make the case exist and they are made up of the number

:29:38. > :29:46.of very disparate groups, some of several thousand soldiers, some of

:29:47. > :29:49.the few hundred. It is unfortunately the government has also failed to

:29:50. > :29:54.make the case about the political side. One of the issues the

:29:55. > :29:58.government did not address was the treatment of the Sunni minority in

:29:59. > :30:01.Iraq and the need to address that issue because that will

:30:02. > :30:06.fundamentally undermined the future of Daesh more than any campaign. And

:30:07. > :30:10.the bombing campaign with out troops on the ground will not be effective.

:30:11. > :30:13.The government has failed to make that case and that is why I cannot

:30:14. > :30:26.support Mr Hilary Benn!

:30:27. > :30:31.Thank you... Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Before I respond to the

:30:32. > :30:35.debate, I would like to say this directly to the Prime Minister.

:30:36. > :30:39.Although my right honourable friend, the Leader of the Opposition, and I,

:30:40. > :30:47.will walk into different division lobbies tonight, I am proud to speak

:30:48. > :30:56.from the same dispatch box as him. My right honourable friend is not a

:30:57. > :31:01.terrorist sympathiser. He is an honest, a principled, a decent and a

:31:02. > :31:05.good man. And I think the Prime Minister must now regret what he

:31:06. > :31:10.said yesterday, and his failure to do what he should have done today,

:31:11. > :31:14.which was simply to say, I'm sorry. Now, Mr Speaker, we have had an

:31:15. > :31:20.intense and impassioned debate, and rightly so, given the clear and

:31:21. > :31:23.gravity of the decision which rests gravity of the decision which rests

:31:24. > :31:27.upon the shoulders and the conscience of every single one of

:31:28. > :31:33.us, and the lives that we hold in our hands tonight will stop and

:31:34. > :31:37.whatever decision we reach, I hope we will treat one another with

:31:38. > :31:41.respect. We have heard a number of outstanding speeches, sadly time

:31:42. > :31:45.will prevent me from acknowledging them all, that I would like to

:31:46. > :31:49.single out the contributions both for and against the motion from my

:31:50. > :31:55.honourable and write honourable friends the members for Derby South,

:31:56. > :31:58.Kingston-upon-Hull West End hassle, Normanton, Pontefract and

:31:59. > :32:03.Castleford, Barnsley Central, Wakefield, Wolverhampton South East,

:32:04. > :32:07.Brent North, Liverpool West Derby, Wirral West, Stoke-on-Trent North,

:32:08. > :32:13.Birmingham Ladywood and the honourable members for radiator,

:32:14. > :32:19.South West Wiltshire, Tonbridge and mauling, Chichester and Wells. The

:32:20. > :32:26.question which confronts us in a very, very complex conflict, it's at

:32:27. > :32:32.its heart a very simple. What should we do with others to confront this

:32:33. > :32:36.threat to our citizens, our nation, other nations and the people who

:32:37. > :32:42.suffer under the yoke, the cruel yoke of Daesh? The carnage in Paris

:32:43. > :32:48.brought home the clear and present danger we face from them. It could

:32:49. > :32:54.just have easily been London or beads or Birmingham, and it could

:32:55. > :32:58.still be. -- all Leeds or Birmingham. I believe we have a

:32:59. > :33:03.moral and brag equal duty to extend the action we are already taking in

:33:04. > :33:08.Iraq to Syria. I am also clear, and I say this to my colleagues, that

:33:09. > :33:11.the conditions set out in the emergency resolution passed at the

:33:12. > :33:20.Labour Party conference in September have been met. We now have a clear

:33:21. > :33:26.and unambiguous UN Security Council resolution 2249, paragraph five

:33:27. > :33:32.which specifically calls on member states

:33:33. > :33:37.measures to redouble and coordinate their efforts to prevent and

:33:38. > :33:42.suppress terrorist acts committed specifically by Isil, and to

:33:43. > :33:47.eradicate the safe haven they have established over significant parts

:33:48. > :33:51.of Iraq and Syria. The United Nations is asking us to do

:33:52. > :33:57.something. It is asking us to do something now. It is asking us to

:33:58. > :34:01.act in Syria as well as in Iraq. It was a Labour government, if the

:34:02. > :34:05.honourable gentlemen will bear with me, a Labour government that helped

:34:06. > :34:10.to found the United Nations at the end of the Second World War. And why

:34:11. > :34:14.did we do so? Because we wanted the nations of the world working

:34:15. > :34:20.together to deal with threats to international peace and security,

:34:21. > :34:26.and Daesh is unquestionably that. Given that the United Nations has

:34:27. > :34:30.passed this resolution, given that such action would be lawful under

:34:31. > :34:35.Article 51 of the UN Charter, because every state has the right to

:34:36. > :34:39.defend itself, why would we not uphold the settled will of the

:34:40. > :34:44.native Nations, particularly when there is such support from within

:34:45. > :34:49.the region, including from Iraq? We are part of a coalition of over 60

:34:50. > :34:55.countries, standing together still -- shoulder to shoulder to oppose

:34:56. > :34:58.their ideology and brutality. We all understand the importance of

:34:59. > :35:01.bringing an end to the Syrian Civil War, and there is no simple progress

:35:02. > :35:08.on a peace plan because of the Vienna talks. They are the best hope

:35:09. > :35:15.we have of achieving a ceasefire -- and there is now some progress on a

:35:16. > :35:19.peace plan. Why is it vital? Because it will help in the defeat of

:35:20. > :35:24.Daesh, and because it will enable millions of Syrians who have been

:35:25. > :35:32.forced to flee to do what every refugee dreams of. They just want to

:35:33. > :35:36.be able to go home. Mr Speaker, no 1 in this debate doubts the deadly

:35:37. > :35:42.serious threat we face from Daesh and what they do, although sometimes

:35:43. > :35:47.we find it hard to live with the reality. We know that in June, four

:35:48. > :35:56.gay men were thrown off the fifth story of a building in the Syrian

:35:57. > :36:01.city -- a Syrian city. We know that in August the 82-year-old guardian

:36:02. > :36:08.of the antiquities of Palmyra, a professor, was beheaded and his

:36:09. > :36:11.headless body was hung from a traffic light. And we know that in

:36:12. > :36:21.recent weeks there has been the discovery of mass graves once said

:36:22. > :36:25.to contain the bodies of older Yazidi women murdered by Daesh

:36:26. > :36:32.because they were considered too old to be sold for sex. We know they had

:36:33. > :36:35.killed 30 British Toolis 's injuries year-old, 224 Russian holiday-makers

:36:36. > :36:41.on a plane, 178 people in suicide awnings in Beirut, Ankara and other

:36:42. > :36:45.places, 100 30 people in Paris including those young people in the

:36:46. > :36:53.Bataclan whom Dyche, in trying to justify that bloody slaughter,

:36:54. > :36:59.called them at the states engaged in prostitution and place. -- called

:37:00. > :37:04.them at the states. If it had happened here, they could have been

:37:05. > :37:07.our children. We know they are plotting more attacks. The question

:37:08. > :37:12.for each of us and for our national security is this, given we know what

:37:13. > :37:16.they are doing, can we really stand aside and refuse to act fully in our

:37:17. > :37:21.self defence against those planning these attacks? Can we really leave

:37:22. > :37:27.to others the responsibility for defending our national security when

:37:28. > :37:34.it is our responsibility? If we do not act, what message would that

:37:35. > :37:39.send about our solidarity with those countries that have suffered so

:37:40. > :37:46.much? Including Iraq and our ally, France. France wants us to stand

:37:47. > :37:53.with them, and President Hollande, the leader of our sister Socialist

:37:54. > :38:00.party, has asked for our assistance and help. And as we are undertaking

:38:01. > :38:05.as strikes in Iraq, where Daesh's hold has been reduced, and we're

:38:06. > :38:12.doing everything but engage in air strikes in Syria, should we not play

:38:13. > :38:19.our full part. Mr Speaker, it has been argued that as strikes achieve

:38:20. > :38:24.nothing. Not so. Look at how Daesh's forward march has been

:38:25. > :38:29.halted in Iraq. 14 months ago, people were saying they are almost

:38:30. > :38:33.at the gates of Baghdad. That is why we voted to respond to the Iraqi

:38:34. > :38:37.government's request for help to defeat them. Look at how their

:38:38. > :38:42.military capacity and freedom of movement has been put under

:38:43. > :38:48.pressure. Ask the Kurds about Sinjar and other cities. Of course as

:38:49. > :38:54.strikes alone will not defeated Daesh, but they make a difference.

:38:55. > :38:57.-- of course air strikes will not. Because they are giving them a hard

:38:58. > :39:02.time and it is making it more difficult for them to expand their

:39:03. > :39:05.territory. I share the concerns expressed this evening about

:39:06. > :39:12.potential civilian casualties. However, unlike Daesh, none of us

:39:13. > :39:20.today act with the intent to harm civilians. Rather, we act to protect

:39:21. > :39:24.civilians from Daesh. Who target innocent people. On the subject of

:39:25. > :39:28.ground troops to defeat Daesh, there has been much debate about the

:39:29. > :39:33.figure of 70,000, and the government must better explain that. But we

:39:34. > :39:39.know that most of them are currently engaged in fighting President Assad,

:39:40. > :39:46.but I tell you what else we know. Whatever the number, 70,000, 40,000,

:39:47. > :39:49.80,000, the current size of the opposition forces mean the longer we

:39:50. > :39:56.leave taking action, the longer Daesh will have to decrease that

:39:57. > :39:59.number. And so to suggest, Mr Speaker, that air strikes should not

:40:00. > :40:04.take place until the Syrian Civil War has come to an end misses the

:40:05. > :40:09.urgency of the terrorist threat that Daesh poses to us and others, and

:40:10. > :40:14.misunderstands the nature and objectives of the extension to air

:40:15. > :40:19.strikes being proposed. And of course we should take action. It is

:40:20. > :40:24.not a contradiction between the two to cut off Daesh's support in the

:40:25. > :40:29.form of money, fighters and weapons. Of course we should give

:40:30. > :40:32.humanitarian aid and offer shelter to more refugees, including in this

:40:33. > :40:39.country, and we should commit to play our full part in helping to

:40:40. > :40:43.rebuild Syria when the war is over. Now, I accept that there are

:40:44. > :40:48.legitimate arguments, and we have heard them in the debate, for not

:40:49. > :40:53.taking this form of action now. It is also clear that many members have

:40:54. > :40:58.wrestled and, who knows, in the time that is left may still be wrestling,

:40:59. > :41:06.with what the right thing to do is. And I saved the threat is now, and

:41:07. > :41:10.there are rarely if ever perfect circumstances in which to deploy

:41:11. > :41:15.military forces. We heard very powerful testimony for the

:41:16. > :41:22.honourable member for Ed is bree earlier when she quoted that

:41:23. > :41:31.passage, and I just want to read what the Kurdistan regional said

:41:32. > :41:36.last week, and I quote, last June, Daesh captured one third of Iraq

:41:37. > :41:43.overnight. A few months later attacked the Kurdistan region. Swift

:41:44. > :41:48.as strikes by Britain, America and France and the actions of our own

:41:49. > :41:54.Peshmerga saved us. We now have a border of 650 miles with Daesh. We

:41:55. > :42:03.have pushed them back, and recently captured Singel again -- Sinjar

:42:04. > :42:08.again. Weston as strikes were vital. But the old border between Iraq and

:42:09. > :42:16.Syria does not exist. Daesh fighters come and go across this fictional

:42:17. > :42:22.boundary. That is the argument, Mr Speaker, for treating the two

:42:23. > :42:27.countries as one. If we are serious about defeating Daesh. Mr Speaker, I

:42:28. > :42:32.hope the house will bear with me if I direct my closing remarks to my

:42:33. > :42:38.Labour friends and colleagues on this side of the House. As a party,

:42:39. > :42:46.we have always been defined by our international is. We believe we have

:42:47. > :42:51.a responsibility one to another. We never have and we never should walk

:42:52. > :42:59.by on the other side of the road. And we are here faced by fascist is.

:43:00. > :43:02.Not just their calculated brutality, but their belief that they are

:43:03. > :43:08.superior to every single one of us in this chamber tonight and all of

:43:09. > :43:12.the people that we represent. They held us in contempt. They hold our

:43:13. > :43:16.values in contempt. They hold our belief in tolerance and decency in

:43:17. > :43:21.contempt, they hold our democracy, the means by which we will make our

:43:22. > :43:28.decision tonight, in contempt. And what we know about fascist is that

:43:29. > :43:34.they need to be defeated. It is why, as we have heard tonight,

:43:35. > :43:37.socialist and trade unionist and others joined the International

:43:38. > :43:42.Brigade in the 1930s, to fight against Franco. It is why this

:43:43. > :43:47.entire house stood up against Hitler and Mussolini, it is why our party

:43:48. > :43:55.has always stood up against the denial of human rights and for

:43:56. > :44:02.justice, and my view, Mr Speaker, is we must now confront this evil. It

:44:03. > :44:08.is now time for us to do our bit in Syria. That is why I ask my

:44:09. > :44:14.colleagues to vote for this motion tonight will stop CHEERING

:44:15. > :44:50.AND APPLAUSE I call the Secretary of State for

:44:51. > :44:58.common Peshmerga Foreign Commonwealth Office.

:44:59. > :45:04.I congratulate the member for an expanding exposition of the case

:45:05. > :45:09.tonight. That will go down as one of the truly great speeches made in

:45:10. > :45:15.this House of Commons. Mr Speaker, the proposal before the house is

:45:16. > :45:27.clear, simple and it's pathetic. -- its specific. To carry out air

:45:28. > :45:29.strikes on ISIS into Syria. The Prime Minister set out the

:45:30. > :45:37.compelling arguments in favour of taking this argument is part of the

:45:38. > :45:41.comprehensive strategy for Syria. In response, the leader of the

:45:42. > :45:46.opposition set out his well-known and well understood principled

:45:47. > :45:50.objections to military intervention. Objections he has developed over

:45:51. > :45:55.many years and are obviously sincerely held. I respect those

:45:56. > :46:00.objections, as such, although I believe them to be profoundly

:46:01. > :46:04.misguided. It is clear from the Shadow Foreign Secretary's speech

:46:05. > :46:09.and the speeches from the member for Derby South, the member for

:46:10. > :46:13.Kingston-upon-Hull West and many other members on the benches

:46:14. > :46:20.opposite, for many of those benches, the real issue of conscious

:46:21. > :46:28.at stake is our obligation to act in the best interests of the UK and for

:46:29. > :46:33.the protection of British citizens. One of the most interesting parts of

:46:34. > :46:38.the leader of the opposition speech was his repeated refusal to confirm

:46:39. > :46:43.it is his party 's policy to support the current action in Iraq that this

:46:44. > :46:54.house voted overwhelmingly for in September, 2014. Not only is he

:46:55. > :46:56.opposed to extending action to protect Britain against Daesh, but

:46:57. > :47:01.from his silence he wants to roll back the action we are taking in

:47:02. > :47:06.and to support the steady erosion of and to support the steady erosion of

:47:07. > :47:12.Isil controlled by the Iraqi security forces and the patient

:47:13. > :47:17.anger. I ask him and the party opposite, is that the position of

:47:18. > :47:23.the Labour Party... Despite its long and honourable tradition, are

:47:24. > :47:29.fighting what the Right Honourable member for Leeds Central himself has

:47:30. > :47:32.said it was fascism. I hope we will have confirmation Mr Speaker as soon

:47:33. > :47:42.as possible that the Labour Party remains committed to the current

:47:43. > :47:49.action in Iraq. Time is very short. Mr Speaker, we have seen this house

:47:50. > :47:53.at its best, 104 members in total have spoken. We have helped her

:47:54. > :47:59.forensic analysis and passionate conviction. I think we can

:48:00. > :48:03.collectively be satisfied that as a house we have done justice to the

:48:04. > :48:09.gravity of the subject we are debating. With so many contributions

:48:10. > :48:14.and only a few minutes remaining, I hope that members and right

:48:15. > :48:17.honourable members will forgive mean to acknowledge them individually. I

:48:18. > :48:21.will do my best to address the principal themes and questions that

:48:22. > :48:27.have arisen during this debate. One of the key issues that has came out

:48:28. > :48:31.is the need to understand what is the military plan and who is going

:48:32. > :48:37.to deliver it? I have to say that there appears to be some confusion

:48:38. > :48:43.about this. Let me try to clarify. We are all agreed in this house that

:48:44. > :48:49.air strikes alone will not finish Isil. But air strikes will deliver

:48:50. > :48:53.immediate benefit. They will reduce the external attack planning and

:48:54. > :49:00.capability, making Britain safer and they will over time degrade Isil and

:49:01. > :49:04.force a change in its behaviour. They will not alone that create a

:49:05. > :49:16.vacuum. Honourable members during the course of this debate have

:49:17. > :49:22.sought to have it both ways. Bombing Isil in Raqqa will not create a

:49:23. > :49:26.difference and will create a vacuum. They will ultimately need to be a

:49:27. > :49:33.ground assault on Raqqa supported by air strikes. As the Right Honourable

:49:34. > :49:37.Lady observed, that will not come in days or weeks, that will come in

:49:38. > :49:43.months, perhaps in years. That will be before it begins nevermore before

:49:44. > :49:48.it -- never mind before it ends. We have had questions about ground

:49:49. > :49:53.forces, where are the ground forces coming from? The context of this is

:49:54. > :49:58.a comprehensive strategy, a military tracked against Isil and a political

:49:59. > :50:04.tract against President Assad. And the time for the taking Isil's

:50:05. > :50:09.heartland in Syria is when the Civil War is ended and a transitional

:50:10. > :50:16.government is in place and when the world can again support the Serbian

:50:17. > :50:22.government. So that the Syrian army, the Syrian opposition forces, the

:50:23. > :50:27.Kurdish forces can turn the forces dashed on guns on Isil, liberating

:50:28. > :50:31.their own country from this organisation. Supported by the

:50:32. > :50:36.coalition with training, technical support, intelligence and air power.

:50:37. > :50:42.Much has been made during the course of this debate about the number of

:50:43. > :50:47.opposition fighters available to join in that effort. The number of

:50:48. > :50:53.70,000 is a number produced by the joint intelligence Committee. It is

:50:54. > :50:57.a number corroborated by the evidence of our US allies. The

:50:58. > :51:01.situation on the ground is complex. There is a spectrum of views

:51:02. > :51:09.included in that 70,000 strong force. It includes a large element

:51:10. > :51:15.of secularists who have views that we would recognise as democratic.

:51:16. > :51:19.And it also includes Islamist 's. There are Islamist 's in the

:51:20. > :51:23.parliaments of Kuwait and Tunisia. We can work with Islamist 's who

:51:24. > :51:31.access the Democratic protest and who are prepared to take part. --

:51:32. > :51:37.process. The second issue that has arisen during the course of this

:51:38. > :51:41.debate is the question of the overall strategy. The Prime Minister

:51:42. > :51:46.was absolutely clear that military action is just one part of the

:51:47. > :51:50.comprehensive strategy. There has to be a political tract and there has

:51:51. > :51:55.to be a humanitarian tract. It is clear that we have to pursue the

:51:56. > :52:00.political tract in parallel with the military. It is the only way to end

:52:01. > :52:06.the civil war in Syria and bring about the defeat of Isil. Now we

:52:07. > :52:10.have an international Syrian support group, the Vienna process, that is a

:52:11. > :52:13.major change in the context. Bringing together all the major

:52:14. > :52:19.international players behind a common vision of what is needed to

:52:20. > :52:26.end the war. It includes Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, as well as the

:52:27. > :52:29.US, UK, France, Turkey and China. For the 1st time, all of these

:52:30. > :52:35.countries have accepted the need for Syrian lead, Syrian owned political

:52:36. > :52:40.transition based on the Geneva principles. A concession that will

:52:41. > :52:45.leave the institutions of the state intact, avoiding the mistakes that

:52:46. > :52:50.were made in Iraq. Of course differences remain between the

:52:51. > :52:57.parties, particularly about how President Assad will transition out.

:52:58. > :53:00.But they have agreed together a time frame for political negotiations

:53:01. > :53:04.including transitional Government within six months, and a new

:53:05. > :53:10.constitution and three and fair elections 18 months. I know that

:53:11. > :53:16.there are those who question the commitment of the United States or

:53:17. > :53:21.the engagement of Russia in this process. I want to court if I could

:53:22. > :53:25.from a letter that I have received this morning from the United States

:53:26. > :53:29.Secretary of State, John Kerry, he says, the United States has long

:53:30. > :53:34.believed that while military action could reinforce diplomacy, there can

:53:35. > :53:39.be no military solution to the Civil War in Syria. We have to pursue a

:53:40. > :53:44.political tract. And at the same time they can be no political deal

:53:45. > :53:57.with Daesh. They have to be degraded by military force. He goes on to

:53:58. > :54:00.say, that the BN Process prevents -- gives the best process in four years

:54:01. > :54:02.for an agreement that will establish a ceasefire and establish a

:54:03. > :54:05.political process that will be to a new constitution and democratic

:54:06. > :54:08.elections. They conclude by telling me this, senior Russian officials

:54:09. > :54:13.have helped to lead the effort to find a common way for work and have

:54:14. > :54:18.expressed firm commitment to the Geneva principles. Russian leaders

:54:19. > :54:23.have indicated both publicly and privately on numerous occasions that

:54:24. > :54:29.they are open to a political transition including a new

:54:30. > :54:33.constitution and elections. Mr Speaker, the third issue that has

:54:34. > :54:36.come up several times during the course of today has been the

:54:37. > :54:41.question of whether air strikes will make a difference. The right

:54:42. > :54:44.honourable member for Leeds Central and several other members have made

:54:45. > :54:51.the point that they have been effective in halting the ad vans of

:54:52. > :54:58.Daesh in Iraq last year and are now contributing to the erosion of Daesh

:54:59. > :55:01.in Iraq. The UK already provides significant elements of hybrid

:55:02. > :55:07.session strikes available to the coalition. That high precision

:55:08. > :55:15.strike will be vital to the campaign in Raqqa. The rules of engagement

:55:16. > :55:19.are classified but I can tell him that the UK rules of engagement are

:55:20. > :55:24.among the most destructive in the world. And bringing British

:55:25. > :55:30.discipline, British skills and British precision weapons to bear

:55:31. > :55:37.will save lives as we prosecute this campaign. We will minimise civilian

:55:38. > :55:43.casualties. There is no military logic and no moral logic to

:55:44. > :55:47.prosecuting Isil in Iraq and not targeting its headquarters in Syria.

:55:48. > :55:54.Reilly, I would like to turn to the fourth issue that has arisen during

:55:55. > :55:59.this debate. Will Britain taking part in air strikes increased the

:56:00. > :56:07.threat to our security? In 2014, there were 15 Isil external attack

:56:08. > :56:14.plans. This year so far, there have been 150. The scale of this problem

:56:15. > :56:21.is rising exponentially. Isil already poses a direct threat to the

:56:22. > :56:25.United Kingdom. 13 British tourists killed on the beaches of Tunisia.

:56:26. > :56:31.And what could've been a British plane that was down over the deserts

:56:32. > :56:36.of Egypt. Seven different terrorist plots disrupted by the security

:56:37. > :56:41.services in the UK in the last 12 months. The judgment of the joint

:56:42. > :56:45.intelligence Committee and the director-general of the Security

:56:46. > :56:49.service is that the UK is already a top tier of Isil 's target list.

:56:50. > :57:00.They hate us for who we are, not for what we do. We have to be clear that

:57:01. > :57:07.the risks of inaction are far greater than the risks of action. We

:57:08. > :57:10.have to act now to degrade this threat... We will do it by targeting

:57:11. > :57:17.the heartland and the control centre. We are not debating tonight

:57:18. > :57:24.as some would have us believe whether or not to go to war. 15

:57:25. > :57:28.months ago this House voted overwhelmingly to begin air strikes

:57:29. > :57:33.against Isil in Iraq. The simple question that we are deciding

:57:34. > :57:37.tonight is whether to extend those operations to tackle Isil in its

:57:38. > :57:43.heartland in Syria. Targeting the head of the state. This is not a

:57:44. > :57:47.fight we have chosen. Why the atrocities they have committed, by

:57:48. > :57:52.the modestly gym of brutality and terror they have inflicted on the

:57:53. > :57:57.people of Iraq and Syria and the clear intent and capability to

:57:58. > :58:02.strike us here in the UK and British citizens abroad, Isil have made that

:58:03. > :58:07.choice for us. And to answer the question of my right honourable

:58:08. > :58:12.friend from Gainsborough, yes, Isil to represent a direct and imminent

:58:13. > :58:16.threat to the UK and to British citizens. The decision tonight is

:58:17. > :58:21.this, do they take the fight to them? Or do we wait for them to

:58:22. > :58:28.bring the fight to us? To be strike them insert here do we wait for them

:58:29. > :58:33.to strike us on the of London? What kind of the country would we be if

:58:34. > :58:39.we refused to act in the face of a threat to our security as clear as

:58:40. > :58:46.the one that Isil posies. Indeed, what kind of the country would be be

:58:47. > :58:50.everywhere unmoved by the murder, the rape, the beheadings and the

:58:51. > :58:57.slavery that Isil imposes on its subjects? And what kind of the

:58:58. > :59:04.country would be be if we ignored the calls for help if -- from our

:59:05. > :59:10.nearest neighbours even as they grieve for the dead? Mr Speaker, we

:59:11. > :59:14.cannot contract out responsibility from our national security. We

:59:15. > :59:17.cannot rely on others to take actions to protect our citizens that

:59:18. > :59:26.we are not willing to take ourselves. The threat is clear. Our

:59:27. > :59:32.ability to respond to it is undoubted. The moral imperative to

:59:33. > :59:36.act is compelling. The legal case to do so is watertight. We do not

:59:37. > :59:43.propose military action lightly and we do not propose it in isolation.

:59:44. > :59:46.We will vigorously pursue the Vienna Process to ceasefire, transposition

:59:47. > :59:52.and a new representative Government in Syria. And we will leave the

:59:53. > :59:57.international Committee -- we will lead the international community and

:59:58. > :00:01.reconstruction. Let us get a clear and simple message to our allies, to

:00:02. > :00:05.our enemy and to the brave armed forces who we are asking to do the

:00:06. > :00:08.job for us, let a show beyond doubt what kind of country we are by

:00:09. > :00:19.endorsing decisively the motion before us this evening.

:00:20. > :00:27.Order, I urge Mr John Barron to move amendment be formally. To move

:00:28. > :00:33.formally, Mr Speaker. The question is that the amendment be made. As

:00:34. > :00:39.many are of the opinion say aye? Of the country no? Division! Clear the

:00:40. > :00:58.lobby! You are watching BBC News at this

:00:59. > :01:03.historic moment as MPs now vote on the question of whether or not

:01:04. > :01:07.Britain should take village reaction against so-called Islamic State

:01:08. > :01:14.targets in Syria. -- should take military action. This is an immense

:01:15. > :01:18.proposed by a Conservative MP, John Barron, and the SNP's Angus

:01:19. > :01:26.Robertson, which would effectively block action in Syria. The key vote,

:01:27. > :01:32.we should get the result of that at about 10:30pm. The MPs voting now on

:01:33. > :01:38.the immense and, clearly vote on that, it will give us a pretty clear

:01:39. > :01:44.idea on how MPs will vote on the main Government motion. We expect a

:01:45. > :01:49.Government majority in favour of military action, we have been

:01:50. > :01:52.hearing through the day from Government sources that RAF

:01:53. > :01:57.warplanes could go into action in the skies over Syria within just a

:01:58. > :02:04.few hours of a yes vote in the House of Commons. They are standing by at

:02:05. > :02:09.their base at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus, ready for that. Let's talk

:02:10. > :02:16.to our chief political corresponded, Vicki Young, who is with me outside

:02:17. > :02:19.the Palace of Westminster. First of all, just explain to us this

:02:20. > :02:25.amendment they are voting on right now, what does it amount to? It is a

:02:26. > :02:30.cross-party and from conservatives, SNP and Labour, and it will block

:02:31. > :02:35.military action if it were to be passed. We are not expecting that to

:02:36. > :02:39.happen, but it gives us a bit of a sense, maybe, of how many MPs in the

:02:40. > :02:45.House of Commons oppose military action. It will not be precise, in

:02:46. > :02:48.the end there will be more voting in the later motion, quite often they

:02:49. > :02:53.don't bother taking part in the amendment. It has been clear from

:02:54. > :02:57.the beginning, because David Cameron always made it very clear, he would

:02:58. > :03:03.not bring this vote to the House of Commons unless he was sure he would

:03:04. > :03:07.win. He was defeated in 2013 on a motion to bomb President Assad in

:03:08. > :03:12.Syria, he was absolutely determined he would not ring is back unless he

:03:13. > :03:16.could bring the vote. The attacks in Paris changed everything, this was

:03:17. > :03:21.not on the agenda in the coming months, but that changed everything,

:03:22. > :03:26.they saw an opportunity, a desire, they felt they had to act out this

:03:27. > :03:32.point, that is why we have got to where we are today. I spoke to a

:03:33. > :03:36.senior Cabinet figure, they said they were confident they would win

:03:37. > :03:40.the vote and the Conservative, hearing people like Alan Johnson,

:03:41. > :03:45.Margaret racket, the grandees of the Labour Party, coming out are making

:03:46. > :03:49.very strong and passionate speeches in favour of military action, to

:03:50. > :03:53.them, that was the moment when they really felt it would sway enough

:03:54. > :04:00.Labour MPs, who have been coming under an awful lot of pressure. So

:04:01. > :04:04.many of them have broken about pressure from campaigners,

:04:05. > :04:08.particularly online, some of it has been nasty. Even though Labour MPs

:04:09. > :04:14.have a free vote, they are coming under pressure to make sure they do

:04:15. > :04:20.not vote with the Government. It has been a day of passionate, powerful

:04:21. > :04:23.debate. Interesting at the very end, we heard from the Shadow

:04:24. > :04:27.Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn, and the Foreign Secretary after him,

:04:28. > :04:32.Philip Hammond, said it was one of the great speeches of parliamentary

:04:33. > :04:36.history. Lavish praise, but it was quite an electric motion, where

:04:37. > :04:41.Hilary Benn, who supports the Government motion, he wants air

:04:42. > :04:44.strikes, he turned to his own backbenchers and he said the French

:04:45. > :04:50.Socialist government has asked us for help. That is interesting,

:04:51. > :04:54.couple of other MPs have spoken about that, not only is it our

:04:55. > :04:57.allies, not only is that the French, many are saying how would Labour

:04:58. > :05:01.feel if they were in power in Britain and there was some kind of

:05:02. > :05:05.attack in London, for example, and say Britain as the French to come

:05:06. > :05:10.onside as an ally and they refused, how would Britain feel less true

:05:11. > :05:17.market rebound, very unusually, turning around at the dispatch box.

:05:18. > :05:22.-- how would Britain feel? Hilary Benn, very unusually. He said he

:05:23. > :05:27.wanted to speak directly to the MPs behind him. He said our social

:05:28. > :05:33.sister party in France has at Democrats for help. He said that

:05:34. > :05:42.Labour are internationalist IS, they do not walk on by. Even those on

:05:43. > :05:45.social media who do not support the position that Hilary Benn was taking

:05:46. > :05:49.felt it was a very passionate speech, it was one of the best I

:05:50. > :05:54.have seen him make. And extraordinary scenes at the end when

:05:55. > :05:56.people burst into applause, that is very unusual in the House of

:05:57. > :06:01.Commons. There was support on the Tory side, and Labour MPs as well

:06:02. > :06:05.were applauding him for quite a long time, and Philip Hammond saying it

:06:06. > :06:11.was one of the best speeches he had heard. The background of all of this

:06:12. > :06:15.with the divisions in Labour, they have had difficult meetings over all

:06:16. > :06:21.of this, Jeremy Corbyn had to give way on his own personal view, he is

:06:22. > :06:25.very much against military action, he conceded that Labour MPs could

:06:26. > :06:28.vote with their conscience, which letters to this extraordinary

:06:29. > :06:34.situation where Corbyn is opening the debate this morning saying he is

:06:35. > :06:40.against air strikes, a Shadow Foreign Secretary giving the

:06:41. > :06:43.opposite point of view. And extraordinary day for the Labour

:06:44. > :06:47.Party in Parliament. Let's just listen to that speech from Hilary

:06:48. > :06:52.Benn, Shadow Foreign Secretary, a few minutes ago.

:06:53. > :07:02.As a party, we have always been defined by our internationalism. We

:07:03. > :07:06.believe we have a responsibility to one another. We never have and never

:07:07. > :07:11.should walk by on the other side of the road. We are here faced by

:07:12. > :07:16.fascist 's, not just that populated with reality, but their belief that

:07:17. > :07:20.they are superior to every single one others in this chamber tonight.

:07:21. > :07:27.And all of the people that we represent. They hold us in contempt.

:07:28. > :07:30.They hold our values in contempt, our belief in tolerance and decency

:07:31. > :07:37.in contempt, our democracy, the means by which we will make our

:07:38. > :07:44.decision tonight, in contempt. What we know about fascists is that they

:07:45. > :07:50.need to be defeated. It is why, as we have heard tonight, socialists,

:07:51. > :07:55.trade unionist and others joined the International Brigades in the 1930s

:07:56. > :08:02.to fight against Franco. It's why this entire house stood up against

:08:03. > :08:05.Hitler and Mussolini. It is why our party has always stood up against

:08:06. > :08:13.the denial of human rights and for justice. My view, Mr Speaker, is we

:08:14. > :08:22.must now confront this evil. It is now time for us to do our bit in

:08:23. > :08:42.Syria. That is why I ask my colleagues to vote for this motion

:08:43. > :08:46.tonight. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. STUDIO: Extraordinary scenes a few

:08:47. > :08:52.moments ago in the chamber. A round of applause from MPs, who do support

:08:53. > :08:57.air strikes and who applauded Hilary Benn, the Shadow Foreign Secretary,

:08:58. > :09:04.as Vicki just said, in complete contradiction to his party leader

:09:05. > :09:09.Jeremy Corbyn, who opened by saying how much he was against air strikes,

:09:10. > :09:11.the Shadow Foreign Secretary said he supports it.

:09:12. > :09:17.As we wait for the vote are not meant and, let's go to Keith Doyle,

:09:18. > :09:24.just around the corner in Parliament Square -- as we wait for the vote on

:09:25. > :09:27.that amendment. Protesters have been protesting against military action

:09:28. > :09:32.against Islamic State in Syria. I know it is hard to uni because it is

:09:33. > :09:40.noisy there, but what is the latest? -- hard to hear me. As Big Ben

:09:41. > :09:43.struck ten o'clock, a palpable mood change, the crowd was built up into

:09:44. > :09:49.a climax, knowing this was the moment that the MPs were voting on

:09:50. > :09:53.this. You can see behind me that they have sat down in the middle of

:09:54. > :10:01.Parliament Square, chanting, we want peace! We want peace! They are

:10:02. > :10:04.calling on MPs to vote against this. I am joined by Chris from the Stop

:10:05. > :10:10.the War Coalition, you must be resigned that the vote is lost? It

:10:11. > :10:16.seems likely, I think this is a tragedy for the people of Syria, for

:10:17. > :10:20.the wider region and it may be very dangerous for people in Britain,

:10:21. > :10:24.there are no upsides whatsoever. It's got a full debate, all the

:10:25. > :10:28.issues have been debated over ten and a half hours, surely at this

:10:29. > :10:33.stage you had to go with the will of Parliament? Unfortunately, what they

:10:34. > :10:37.vote for is what will happen, but the will of Parliament is not the

:10:38. > :10:41.will of the people. In the last week, 5 million people in this

:10:42. > :10:45.country have turned against the war. David Cameron may have won the vote

:10:46. > :10:50.in Parliament, but he is losing the argument in the country. These

:10:51. > :10:54.arguments will only become more intense and widespread. What do you

:10:55. > :11:03.feel about the mood, it has changed as Big Ben hit five o'clock -- ten

:11:04. > :11:07.o'clock? Yes, it is serious, people feel like their representatives are

:11:08. > :11:10.in danger of betraying them and causing civilian deaths in the

:11:11. > :11:18.Middle East, this is the disaster. These issues were aired in the House

:11:19. > :11:22.of Commons, contrary issues as well. This crowd is waiting for the vote,

:11:23. > :11:26.expected in the next 15 or 20 minutes.

:11:27. > :11:30.The first vote on the amendment, we expect in the next couple of

:11:31. > :11:34.minutes, so we are keeping an eye on the chamber. Let's talk to Vicki

:11:35. > :11:39.Young, our chief political correspondent, about what this will

:11:40. > :11:48.mean. This amendment would basically block military action over Syria. In

:11:49. > :11:53.other words, we are looking for, what, in terms of the ayes and the

:11:54. > :11:58.noes? Those voting yes, in this case, want to block military action

:11:59. > :12:03.in Syria. In the later boat, it will be the other way round. This gives

:12:04. > :12:09.an indication as to how many MPs in the House of Commons are against

:12:10. > :12:14.extending military action. It will be slightly different when it comes

:12:15. > :12:19.to later, it is not an exact extrapolation, but the SNP, for

:12:20. > :12:22.example, will be voting this way. Interestingly, Tim Farron, the Lib

:12:23. > :12:26.Dem leader, has agreed to back the Government when it comes to air

:12:27. > :12:30.strikes, there are only eight Liberal Democrats but even within

:12:31. > :12:34.them there are splits. I think Norman Lamb has tweeted saying he

:12:35. > :12:38.will vote against the Government on this because he is not happy. I

:12:39. > :12:43.think it shows the difficulties there have been for MPs. That has

:12:44. > :12:47.come across in the debate today, the anxiety that lots of them have. They

:12:48. > :12:51.feel they are making an important decision. Lots of MPs were elected

:12:52. > :12:57.in May 2015, they take this decision very seriously, they know they have

:12:58. > :13:01.a responsibility and many of them have found it very difficult. There

:13:02. > :13:06.are others who have been in a lot longer, one senior Shadow Cabinet

:13:07. > :13:11.figure said he is scarred by the Iraq vote. Many voted for the Iraq

:13:12. > :13:15.war and later regretted it, the cloud of Iraq has hung over this

:13:16. > :13:20.debate is a lot. It has been interesting hearing the different

:13:21. > :13:23.voices coming forward. On the Conservative side, they are being

:13:24. > :13:28.whipped and told what to do by party managers. For them, any MP on that

:13:29. > :13:32.side who wants to go against the Government, it is a much bigger

:13:33. > :13:37.deal. Labour have a free vote and can vote with their conscience, it

:13:38. > :13:41.is not equal. We don't know potentially how many Conservative

:13:42. > :13:44.ministers and junior ministers might have had doubts about extending

:13:45. > :13:50.military action to Syria, we won't know because they are telling the

:13:51. > :13:54.party line. Expect maybe about 11 Conservatives to rebel against David

:13:55. > :13:58.Cameron. We will be looking on the Labour site later for how many have

:13:59. > :14:02.decided to vote with the Government. We keep hearing that this is a

:14:03. > :14:07.matter of conscience for MPs, one of the biggest issues they will have to

:14:08. > :14:11.decide on in their life as an MP, yet there are these pressures. It is

:14:12. > :14:16.not just a them, there are pressures from constituents, social media, the

:14:17. > :14:22.party leadership, whips if they are being whipped, all sorts of

:14:23. > :14:26.pressures, a difficult decision? Has been quite a debate about how our

:14:27. > :14:31.democracy works, what is the role of the MP? Are they there to represent

:14:32. > :14:36.their constituency party in the case of Labour MPs is that the local

:14:37. > :14:39.Labour Party? Lots of them were urged by Jeremy Corbyn to go back

:14:40. > :14:44.last weekend and speak to their local Labour Party. Lots of them

:14:45. > :14:47.said, I represent 80,000 people, not just Labour people. Let's listen in

:14:48. > :15:16.to the vote. Order, order. The noes to the left, 390. The ayes

:15:17. > :15:30.to direct 211. The negative to the left, 390. The noes habit. The noes

:15:31. > :15:31.habit. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary,

:15:32. > :16:01."no". Division, clear the lobby. That motion which would have blocked

:16:02. > :16:04.military action, there was an amendment that would have blocked

:16:05. > :16:12.British military action over Syria has been soundly rejected. The

:16:13. > :16:24.number in favour was 211, against was the hundred and 90. That is

:16:25. > :16:29.about 179 that was rejected by. We have now got the key motion to vote

:16:30. > :16:34.on, we might have to wait 10-15 minutes to get the result of that.

:16:35. > :16:38.This is just the amendment that would have blocked military action

:16:39. > :16:43.in Syria that was proposed by John Barron, the rebel Tory MP and Angus

:16:44. > :16:48.Robertson of the SNP. That has been rejected by a large number of

:16:49. > :16:53.votes. This that give us an idea with the main motion? It would do.

:16:54. > :16:59.If it was to be reversed, it will be the other way around later. The ayes

:17:00. > :17:07.are the ones against military action. The negative ones are in

:17:08. > :17:14.favour. That looks like a large number of Labour MPs that will be

:17:15. > :17:17.backing the Government. It could be that those numbers do not

:17:18. > :17:23.transferred across. There has been lots of speculation about the Labour

:17:24. > :17:27.numbers. That is because they are on a free vote. The Party is much more

:17:28. > :17:34.divided right to the top, right up to the Shadow Cabinet on this issue.

:17:35. > :17:38.Some have set a few days ago, there might be 99 Labour MPs who might

:17:39. > :17:42.vote with the Government. And that number seem to be falling quite a

:17:43. > :17:46.bit. Some were seen because of last night because of the comments by

:17:47. > :17:52.David Cameron to a private meeting with the said that people should not

:17:53. > :17:56.support Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers. That made it

:17:57. > :18:00.very tricky for Labour MPs today who were wanting to back the Government

:18:01. > :18:04.and a find that incredibly unhelpful for David Cameron to see that and

:18:05. > :18:17.were worried it would put a lot of Labour MPs. We have figures like

:18:18. > :18:21.Yvette Cooper and Alan Johnson and Margaret Beckett coming out saying

:18:22. > :18:26.they would back in the Government in all of this. People feel this would

:18:27. > :18:30.sway quite a lot of MPs. They were looking at 40. That number would

:18:31. > :18:35.predict higher on the Labour side. As we are talking about the Labour

:18:36. > :18:39.Party, aside from the issue of Syria, in terms of the future of the

:18:40. > :18:44.Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn, if this was a big rebellion against

:18:45. > :18:49.him, that would have important implications for Labour and for

:18:50. > :18:54.those MPs worried about being deselected if they do support David

:18:55. > :18:58.Cameron. That in the end is why David -- Jeremy Corbyn had to give a

:18:59. > :19:00.feeble because there would be a number who would rebel against them

:19:01. > :19:05.and would have left the Shadow Cabinet. He did not do that. This

:19:06. > :19:09.was inevitable given that you do have the leader of the Labour Party

:19:10. > :19:14.who has got strong views and is against military action. He is

:19:15. > :19:19.supported by a huge grassroot membership and you have the MPs in

:19:20. > :19:23.between, many do not agree with him. What is interesting about this

:19:24. > :19:28.issue, it is not like tried it, there are several dozens who do

:19:29. > :19:32.agree with Jeremy Corbyn but you would not think that listening to

:19:33. > :19:36.him in the House of Commons today, he was getting no support from his

:19:37. > :19:40.own backbenchers. He struggled to make his case in the clear and

:19:41. > :19:44.coherent way, partly because he gives way to interventions the

:19:45. > :19:49.entire time. He is quite courteous and does not get into his stride.

:19:50. > :19:54.When you compare him to how Hilary Benn performed at the end of the

:19:55. > :20:03.day, it was a stark contrast. Jeremy Corbyn is struggling, I think. There

:20:04. > :20:06.are many in his Party who think he is doing the right thing and he

:20:07. > :20:09.believes that military action will do more harm than good. It will make

:20:10. > :20:12.the UK more of the target. And it will kill innocent civilians. For

:20:13. > :20:18.the Borehamwood, thank you very much. Talking about that speech from

:20:19. > :20:24.Hilary Benn and then it was fallen by Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond

:20:25. > :20:28.who praised Hilary Benn said one is the great speeches. Let us listen in

:20:29. > :20:35.what Philip Hammond said. He close the debate. Isil do represent a

:20:36. > :20:40.direct and imminent threat to the UK and to British citizens. The

:20:41. > :20:46.decision tonight is this, do we take the fight to them or do we wait for

:20:47. > :20:49.them to bring the fight to others? Do we strike them in Syria or do we

:20:50. > :20:57.wait for them to strike us on the streets of London? What kind of

:20:58. > :21:02.country would we be if we refused to act in the face of a threat to our

:21:03. > :21:08.security as clear as the one that Isil pauses? Indeed, Mr Speaker,

:21:09. > :21:14.what kind of the country would we be if we were unmoved by the murder,

:21:15. > :21:18.the rape, the beheading, and the slavery that Isil imposes on its

:21:19. > :21:25.subjects. And what kind of the country would we be if we ignored

:21:26. > :21:37.the calls for help from our nudist neighbours even as they grieve. --

:21:38. > :21:46.from our nudist neighbours. -- nearist. We cannot take actions to

:21:47. > :21:51.protect citizens that we cannot take ourselves. The correct is clear. Our

:21:52. > :21:58.ability to respond to it is undoubted. The moral imperative to

:21:59. > :22:02.act is compelling and the legal case to do so is watertight. We do not

:22:03. > :22:09.propose military action lightly and we do not propose it in isolation.

:22:10. > :22:12.We will vigorously pursue the Vienna Process to ceasefire and transition

:22:13. > :22:17.with the new representative Government in Syria and we will lead

:22:18. > :22:19.the International Committee in planning and delivering

:22:20. > :22:25.post-conflict reconstruction. Let us tonight give a clear and simple

:22:26. > :22:30.message to our allies, to the enemy and to our brave Armed Forces who we

:22:31. > :22:34.are asking to do the job for us. Let the show beyond doubt what kind of

:22:35. > :22:42.country we are by endorsing decisively the motion before us.

:22:43. > :22:48.That was Philip Hammond the Foreign Secretary. We are hearing that in

:22:49. > :22:52.terms of that amendment that has been defeated at head of the main

:22:53. > :22:57.vote which is being voted on right now, the amendment which would have

:22:58. > :23:03.blocked British military action in Syria, it has been defeated and it

:23:04. > :23:08.looks like even though we are not 100% sure, about 60 Labour MPs voted

:23:09. > :23:13.against the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn on that. We will see how that

:23:14. > :23:17.plays out with the main vote on the Government resolution in the next

:23:18. > :23:21.few minutes. Let us go round the corner to Parliament Square where

:23:22. > :23:30.Keith Doyle has been watching as the protest outside the stop the War

:23:31. > :23:37.coalition has been unfolding. What is the latest? The mood has

:23:38. > :23:42.definitely changed as the boat is imminent. The code had been chanting

:23:43. > :23:49.saying, do not bomb Syria. You can keep them behind us. They know that

:23:50. > :23:55.this is coming. Some people felt the amendment was the real boat. As you

:23:56. > :23:59.can see and hear behind me, the crowd is getting quite agitated and

:24:00. > :24:04.quite het up as it reaches the climax. The crowd of about 2000

:24:05. > :24:11.people have been here since 6pm this evening. They laid across the road

:24:12. > :24:17.and blocked Parliament Square. That was moved on by the police. We now

:24:18. > :24:25.have this group who are loud and vocal as they wait for this vote to

:24:26. > :24:29.come. Thank you very much indeed. People waiting with bated breath for

:24:30. > :24:35.the result of the main vote. As are we. I am here with Vicky Young. We

:24:36. > :24:47.watched the chamber filling back up again. The MPs having voted on that

:24:48. > :24:51.main Government motion in support of British military action against

:24:52. > :24:57.so-called Islamic State, Isil as it is called in the Government motion

:24:58. > :25:03.in Syria. British action already been taken against Islamic State in

:25:04. > :25:07.Iraq. This would be in Syria which is viewed by many as the

:25:08. > :25:12.headquarters containing the city of Raqqa which is the stronghold with

:25:13. > :25:17.the said many of the operations are controlled from, where the

:25:18. > :25:21.leadership has been based, a city of around 200,000 people. Let us talk

:25:22. > :25:26.to the key young again. As we were seen from that amendment that was

:25:27. > :25:30.defeated, it looks like perhaps around 60 Labour MPs are going to

:25:31. > :25:35.support the Government this evening. A much pressure do you think Labour

:25:36. > :25:40.MPs have been under with this? It is supposedly been a free vote. They do

:25:41. > :25:44.not feel it has been. They think a free vote means they can vote with

:25:45. > :25:48.their conscience. They are sent to parliament as a representative but

:25:49. > :25:53.in the end they make a decision on how the vote. Lots of them feel that

:25:54. > :25:58.they were thinking of voting for the Government, some of them were

:25:59. > :26:01.getting abuse online. One MP talked about being sent photos of dead

:26:02. > :26:07.Syrian babies to his timeline. Another MPs said that they had riot

:26:08. > :26:12.vans outside his constituency office last night because of the threat

:26:13. > :26:17.from protesters who disagreed with what he was trying to do. The other

:26:18. > :26:21.anxiety from Labour MPs, the few times Jeremy Corbyn was asked if he

:26:22. > :26:25.still backs military strikes in Iraq, something that was voted

:26:26. > :26:29.through with the huge majority a couple of years ago. He did not

:26:30. > :26:36.answer that question will stop another MPs asked him privately.

:26:37. > :26:41.Jeremy Corbyn refused to answer that. Some Labour MPs think that is

:26:42. > :26:45.the next problem that we face. They think they Jeremy Corbyn will try to

:26:46. > :26:51.change Party policy to oppose strikes in Iraq as well as opposing

:26:52. > :26:56.strikes in Syria. They see that as a way of trying to divide them from

:26:57. > :27:01.the Party faithful. You can see the atmosphere in the Labour Party,

:27:02. > :27:07.there's lots of anxiety. With is lots of unease about the future.

:27:08. > :27:14.With the leader who has a different view to some of them but not all of

:27:15. > :27:19.them. What they are talking about is whether your strokes are the way to

:27:20. > :27:24.deal with Isil. Everyone agrees that Isil are terrorists who need to be

:27:25. > :27:29.defeated. Is launching air strikes against them in Syria the way to do

:27:30. > :27:35.it? Is that the best way to do it? Just because our allies asked us to

:27:36. > :27:37.go with them, should we do that? Not to MPs worried about civilian

:27:38. > :27:43.casualties. Worried that blocked and will become more of the target for

:27:44. > :27:50.terrorists if we join them. -- if Britain. David Cameron stating we

:27:51. > :27:54.have a false border between Iraq and Syria we're British planes cannot

:27:55. > :27:59.fly over. Beating the British forces need to be able to go anywhere to

:28:00. > :28:07.attack Isil. -- they think that the British forces. We are under direct

:28:08. > :28:13.threat from Isil ambles plots are being made in Syria sought Isil

:28:14. > :28:18.needs to be attacked in Syria. We are close to the vote after what has

:28:19. > :28:22.been a marathon day of debate. 10.5 hours. The Speaker has not left the

:28:23. > :28:29.chair. I do not know if that is true. David Cameron was in and out

:28:30. > :28:32.quite a lot. He was on the front bench a lot and listening, it

:28:33. > :28:39.appeared very thoughtfully to the backbench contributions. The climax

:28:40. > :28:48.of all of this is close. On a historic day at Westminster. Emily

:28:49. > :28:52.Formby from the Labour Party has joined us. On the verge of getting

:28:53. > :28:56.the boat. Can you tell us how you voted question mark I voted against

:28:57. > :29:00.air strikes and I voted for the amendment which was to see that you

:29:01. > :29:03.have not made the case and give yourself more time and we will

:29:04. > :29:09.listen again. Against air strikes why? I want Britain to be safe. I

:29:10. > :29:14.want us to deal with Isil but I did not believe in the strategy and I

:29:15. > :29:19.did not think it made sense. Quite a lot of what David Cameron was saying

:29:20. > :29:23.was spent. There was nonsense about the moderate Sunni troops on the

:29:24. > :29:27.ground that were miraculously going to arrive at his command and be

:29:28. > :29:33.there to do the work on the ground. It did not make sense. I also think

:29:34. > :29:36.we do not have a strategy for an international agreement and we need

:29:37. > :29:42.to be further down the line than that before we engage Isil. I am not

:29:43. > :29:46.a pacifist, I am a pragmatist but I did not think that strategy was

:29:47. > :29:53.going to work. It did not have the detail. Well you not swayed by the

:29:54. > :29:58.words of Hilary Benn? Very powerful speech, he said it was the will of

:29:59. > :30:03.the United Nations, it is your sister Socialist Party in France

:30:04. > :30:07.asking for help. I have utmost respect for Hilary Benn. He is a

:30:08. > :30:09.thoughtful man, a careful man, he looked at all the details but I did

:30:10. > :30:17.not agree with them. That is fine. Hang fire while we listen to the

:30:18. > :31:11.vote. Order, order. The ayes to the right,

:31:12. > :31:20.397. The noes to the left, 223. The ayes to the right, 397. The noes

:31:21. > :31:29.to the left, 223. So that ayes have it, the ayes have it. Unlock!

:31:30. > :31:30.Order. We come now to the petition...

:31:31. > :32:00.LAUGHTER PRESENTER: An historic member...

:32:01. > :32:02.Decision by the House of Commons to approve British military action

:32:03. > :32:09.against Islamic State targets in Syria by a history of one had -- by

:32:10. > :32:17.a majority of 74. 397 in favour of the Government motion proposed by

:32:18. > :32:22.David Cameron, 223 against. We will wait to see how many Labour MPs

:32:23. > :32:28.voted for air strikes, how many voted against. Let's get the

:32:29. > :32:34.reaction from Emily Thornberry, the Labour MPO against air strikes. What

:32:35. > :32:40.is your immediate reaction that air strikes will go ahead, possibly

:32:41. > :32:44.within hours, we have been told? I'm very disappointed, I think this is a

:32:45. > :32:48.mistake. We have done everything we can to persuade the Government that

:32:49. > :32:54.this is a mistake. I think the cat is split on this. The Labour Party

:32:55. > :32:58.is split on this. And I think the represent the country, families

:32:59. > :33:03.across the country will have had arguments, will have debated it. It

:33:04. > :33:07.is a very difficult decision but I think in the end, I'm afraid, I

:33:08. > :33:10.believe this is a mistake. I have the numbers in terms of the number

:33:11. > :33:17.of Labour MPs who have voted one way the other. 57 Labour MPs voted with

:33:18. > :33:23.the Government on the main motion, 141 against. If that is right, what

:33:24. > :33:27.are your thoughts? 57 of your MPs going against your leader? I think

:33:28. > :33:32.it reflects the debate within the country. If you look at you go of

:33:33. > :33:38.poll, 57% of the public were in favour of bombing last week 47 this

:33:39. > :33:44.week. I think the public has moved towards the argument that Jeremy has

:33:45. > :33:48.been putting forward, as has the Parliamentary Labour Party and the

:33:49. > :33:52.majority of the Shadow Cabinet, the majority has voted against bombing.

:33:53. > :33:57.I think it David Cameron had given us a couple of weeks, which is what

:33:58. > :34:00.we wanted, I expect the result would have been stronger in favour of

:34:01. > :34:05.Jeremy. He wanted to go quickly because he saw the argument running

:34:06. > :34:12.away from him. If you forgive me saying, the leader of your part the

:34:13. > :34:15.opened the debate, opposed to a air strikes, the debate was closed by

:34:16. > :34:19.your Shadow Foreign Secretary supporting air strikes and the

:34:20. > :34:23.Government, extraordinary. We have been open about divisions within the

:34:24. > :34:28.party, we have debated it. We have reflected the country. The arguments

:34:29. > :34:32.have been out there. I think it David Cameron was so confident about

:34:33. > :34:36.his argument he would not have had a whip on his MPs as well. When Robin

:34:37. > :34:42.Cook change the constitution and allowed MPs to vote on war, I think

:34:43. > :34:45.the next step was to have a free vote. What is the point in having

:34:46. > :34:49.them alone to vote and then forcing them to vote with the party. People

:34:50. > :34:54.should vote with their consciences and we should have a proper debate.

:34:55. > :34:57.I know in the Westminster village, people think this is odd, but out in

:34:58. > :35:05.the country they think it is honest, truthful politics. Vicki Young, is

:35:06. > :35:09.that how you see it? It is true, on the Conservative side they whipped

:35:10. > :35:14.their MPs until then had to vote, we can't really know fully how many

:35:15. > :35:18.Conservative MPs have reservations about military action. There was a

:35:19. > :35:22.very different approach -- approach from either side. On the numbers, I

:35:23. > :35:29.do want to quibble with your people, but it looks nearer 70 to me, the

:35:30. > :35:36.back of an envelope. Possibly 70 MPs going against Jeremy Corbyn? It is

:35:37. > :35:41.very hard to say. With extensions at all sorts it is hard to say. But the

:35:42. > :35:44.broad picture is the House of Commons has voted for military

:35:45. > :35:49.action, we have been told it is likely to happen very, very quickly,

:35:50. > :35:53.and the question MPs will look for is what difference will it make?

:35:54. > :35:59.Those with anxieties who fear it will make the situation worse,

:36:00. > :36:02.others feel it is the only way to try to debilitate Isil at its

:36:03. > :36:09.headquarters. For now, thank you both for being with us. Let's see

:36:10. > :36:13.how news of that vote has gone down with the protesters against military

:36:14. > :36:15.action, who have been demonstrating outside the Palace of Westminster

:36:16. > :36:23.all evening. Keith Doyle is with them.

:36:24. > :36:29.Yes, a very noisy reaction as the vote came through. The crowd here,

:36:30. > :36:40.brewing and shouts of scum, various other insult -- that crowds here

:36:41. > :36:46.booing. Rebecca, what was your reaction? I am totally unsurprised,

:36:47. > :36:52.it was obviously going to be a huge majority to bomb Syria. Charlie,

:36:53. > :36:55.your reaction? What do you think people are feeling? I am not

:36:56. > :37:00.surprised, but this will not end here. This is something which we had

:37:01. > :37:05.to continue to fight against the moral Government. The biggest

:37:06. > :37:13.problem is we were here in 2003 just before the Iraq links. The green --

:37:14. > :37:17.the immoral Government. Our voices are never being heard. We can

:37:18. > :37:21.protest as much as we want, it does not make a difference, but we are

:37:22. > :37:26.here to show solidarity with Syria. We want to show that the people do

:37:27. > :37:30.not want it, the Government might but the people do not. Passionate

:37:31. > :37:35.responses at Parliament Square. There are lots of very angry people

:37:36. > :37:43.here. They say they feel betrayed by many Labour MPs. They say they will

:37:44. > :37:48.stay here until this evening goes all the way through, for some hours

:37:49. > :37:51.to come. I will hand you back because it is very hard to hear

:37:52. > :37:56.anything going on. We understand your problems, Keith,

:37:57. > :38:01.but thank you so much, Keith Doyle, reporting with the protesters

:38:02. > :38:06.against military action in Syria. But it will go ahead, the House of

:38:07. > :38:14.Commons has voted in the last few minutes by 397 votes to 223 in

:38:15. > :38:19.favour of air strikes against Islamic State in Syria. Already

:38:20. > :38:23.there is action against IS in Iraq that has been carried out, now that

:38:24. > :38:29.will be extended across the board into Syria. There are RAF warplanes

:38:30. > :38:34.standing by at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus, ready to carry out air

:38:35. > :38:39.strikes. I was hearing a little bit earlier from senior Government

:38:40. > :38:45.sources who told me that within hours there would be air strikes.

:38:46. > :38:50.Overnight or early tomorrow there could be air strikes over Syria, but

:38:51. > :38:50.it will not be very long. Let's go back to our chief

:38:51. > :38:57.correspondence Vicki Young, with your thought on the size

:38:58. > :39:04.T4 David Cameron. How pleased will he be? He was looking to win, but to

:39:05. > :39:08.win really emphatically. I think he would say that he had. If you would

:39:09. > :39:12.say a few months ago that he could win with a majority that big, nobody

:39:13. > :39:17.would have believed it. He wanted to get this through the House of

:39:18. > :39:23.Commons for a very long time, we have heard reports about how angry

:39:24. > :39:27.he was at Isil terrorists beheading British citizens, habit made him so

:39:28. > :39:32.angry. He wanted to deal with it bike standing military action. He

:39:33. > :39:37.has got his way and MPs will sit and watch and see what difference the

:39:38. > :39:42.air strikes make. Another Labour MP says he thinks 65 or 66 Labour MPs

:39:43. > :39:47.voted with the Government. That sounds about right to me. TED talk

:39:48. > :39:53.to Stewart Hosie, deputy leader of the Scottish National party. -- lets

:39:54. > :39:58.talk to. Your reaction? Very disappointed. We listened to the

:39:59. > :40:02.debate all day, many members took part. We did not believe the case

:40:03. > :40:07.had been made by the Government, clearly there is a majority in the

:40:08. > :40:11.house and civil war, and we can only hope that of these promises about

:40:12. > :40:16.not, sophisticated laser-guided weapons only killing the bad guys

:40:17. > :40:20.actually work, and we do not end up with lots of civilians wounded,

:40:21. > :40:26.dead, displaced and an even bigger vacuum than before. The vice David

:40:27. > :40:29.Cameron's argument, or one of them, was it was making people in this

:40:30. > :40:34.country safer from terrorist attacks. We had the attack in

:40:35. > :40:40.Tunisia. The terrorist attacks in the future that are planned in Syria

:40:41. > :40:46.by IS, in their Raqqa stronghold. What you say?

:40:47. > :40:51.There are many ways to degrade, defeat or destroyed H. Boil their

:40:52. > :40:59.oil supplies, chased and the people funding them. They are long-term

:41:00. > :41:02.strategies. The decision not to cut police funding the sensible last

:41:03. > :41:10.week. Let's step of activities, let's make sure we counted the

:41:11. > :41:16.ideology that allows the CB did I like Daesh and makes them terrible

:41:17. > :41:21.things. Many things could have been done short of going to war. A

:41:22. > :41:26.powerful speech from Hilary Benn, he said it is the will of the United

:41:27. > :41:30.Nations, it is a request from the Socialist party of France for

:41:31. > :41:36.Britain to join in ministry action. Why do you turn your back on those?

:41:37. > :41:39.We don't, far from it. We think international solidarity is

:41:40. > :41:43.important, which is why we said there should be a specific UN

:41:44. > :41:46.chapter seven resolution which specifically permitted military

:41:47. > :41:52.action rather than a catchall figleaf that the Prime Minister was

:41:53. > :41:56.hiding behind. We do not turn our backs, far from it. We wanted

:41:57. > :42:04.absolutely galaxy uncertainty before any action was taken. We have just

:42:05. > :42:07.heard from Laura Kuenssberg, 67 Labour MPs voted with the

:42:08. > :42:12.Government, what are your thoughts about that and where does this leave

:42:13. > :42:16.the Labour Party? The Labour Party is hugely divided, we saw that

:42:17. > :42:20.today. Hilary Benn's speech was a very good speech, it utterly

:42:21. > :42:25.humiliated Jeremy Corbyn, we saw that. This is not the time to

:42:26. > :42:31.discuss the party politics or what it needs for Labour other than to

:42:32. > :42:37.say it is very hard indeed to see how they can ever recover as a

:42:38. > :42:42.credible united force. In the wake of this vote, we hear there might be

:42:43. > :42:45.RAF action in hours, what are your thoughts, that air strikes will

:42:46. > :42:52.begin very soon? I am sure there will, we understand it is free

:42:53. > :42:57.chosen targets. We hope that every pilot sent into the conflict returns

:42:58. > :43:01.safely. We certainly hope that if they are forced to drop ordinance it

:43:02. > :43:05.is on the right people. We are watching, I fear, Iraq or Libya all

:43:06. > :43:12.over again. I want a different out, I want peace and stability in Syria.

:43:13. > :43:17.I suspect this might not lead to it. Opinion polls and seemed to be

:43:18. > :43:21.pretty split in terms of public opinion. Is that the case in

:43:22. > :43:27.Scotland? Is opinion divided in Scotland, as it appears in the rest

:43:28. > :43:32.of the country? We saw support throughout the UK diminishing. In

:43:33. > :43:37.Scotland I understand it is around 72% opposing the action in Syria.

:43:38. > :43:42.One might argue that this is a decision taken by a UK Government

:43:43. > :43:46.and others without mandate or support in Scotland or, indeed, if

:43:47. > :43:51.these polls are correct, elsewhere in the UK. I think governments that

:43:52. > :43:55.go to war without the public on their site risk very serious

:43:56. > :44:00.difficulties in the future. We are already carrying out action against

:44:01. > :44:05.IS in Iraq, what is the difference if we move across the border to

:44:06. > :44:10.Syria? IS don't recognise that border, why should be RAF? The Prime

:44:11. > :44:14.Minister use that argument, that there are not real borders, but

:44:15. > :44:20.there is international law. Where does that stop if one is chasing a

:44:21. > :44:26.Daesh fighter into Turkey, do we cease to recognise the Turkish

:44:27. > :44:31.border? That would need very difficult. -- that would be. Stewart

:44:32. > :44:36.Hosie, from the SNP, thank you so much for your time talking to us

:44:37. > :44:41.tonight. Let's remind you of the votes that we just said on the

:44:42. > :44:46.Commons a short time ago in Faiva 397, against 223. Let's listen as

:44:47. > :44:56.that was brought to the chamber of the House of Commons.

:44:57. > :45:00.Order, order. The ayes to the right, 397. The noes

:45:01. > :45:34.to the left, 223. The's habit.

:45:35. > :45:39.Let us talk to Alan Duncan. I think it was the right decision. It was

:45:40. > :45:43.very decisive. It will send a message across the world of Britain

:45:44. > :45:47.is treated me issue seriously and will play its part. It was a good

:45:48. > :45:52.day for Parliament, the quality of debate was very happy and all

:45:53. > :45:55.plaudits go to Hilary Benn who made one of the most remarkable

:45:56. > :46:00.Parliamentary speeches I heard and he put all of the arguments in it.

:46:01. > :46:13.Anyone in the other lobby must feel sheepish when they think, Hilary

:46:14. > :46:16.Benn said that he was persuasive but I way. In terms of the size of the

:46:17. > :46:18.majority, was that the type of majority the Prime Minister was

:46:19. > :46:21.looking for? It was bigger than I expected and it was solid. There's

:46:22. > :46:26.no doubt about it. I think it was good to see so many Labour MPs in

:46:27. > :46:30.the lobby and likewise, we were very generous in responding to Hilary

:46:31. > :46:34.Benn who deserved the congratulations he got. The Party

:46:35. > :46:38.that came out worst was the Scottish Nationalists whose arguments have

:46:39. > :46:42.been weak. They had not been deceitful but at least unconvincing.

:46:43. > :46:47.They do not look like a Party that is serious about our security and

:46:48. > :46:52.national defence. If you believe the opinion polls, we have a country

:46:53. > :46:56.that is divided. The reason they are divided is because there is a lot of

:46:57. > :47:02.misunderstanding about what was proposed. It was not about starting

:47:03. > :47:07.a war in Syria. It was about trying to stop a war. It is adding to the

:47:08. > :47:11.war in Syria. It is dropping more bombs. It is not adding to a war, it

:47:12. > :47:17.is stopping those who are running rampant across the border of what

:47:18. > :47:21.was Iraq and Syria. Hence the logical nature of the SNP argument

:47:22. > :47:25.that sent the border was still relevant. If you are going to do

:47:26. > :47:30.something in Iraq can be like it, and then not do something in Syria

:47:31. > :47:34.because we do not like it, those two statements do not add up. Nobody is

:47:35. > :47:41.pretending this is the total solution of the answer. If you look

:47:42. > :47:45.at where Isil do the barbarity, the nastiness, the VAIO qualities, to

:47:46. > :47:51.say we are going to see, we will let you carry on, is not a moral option.

:47:52. > :47:56.People say we have been here before with Iraq. It is easy to start

:47:57. > :48:04.military action in Iraq and Libya, it did not end very well. We do not

:48:05. > :48:08.have a clear end in sight. The Americans started the war in Iraq.

:48:09. > :48:14.That was a mistake and it has unleashed a lot of these forces. We

:48:15. > :48:18.did not start the war in Libya, that was happening when we went in to

:48:19. > :48:23.protect those who were going to be massacred by Colonel Gaddafi. We

:48:24. > :48:27.have to remember our history. We have to judge today on facts and not

:48:28. > :48:33.see we got it wrong in Iraq so we will not do anything in Syria today.

:48:34. > :48:38.We have to use proper arguments to suit the events of today, not the

:48:39. > :48:44.regrets and disappointments, and they worry about mistakes of

:48:45. > :48:47.yesterday. Was one mistake was the Prime Minister talking about

:48:48. > :48:50.terrorist sympathisers when he talked about people against air

:48:51. > :48:55.strikes in Syria? I was not at that meeting so I do not know what was

:48:56. > :49:03.said and it is a pity it became part of the debate. It made its crabby.

:49:04. > :49:07.-- made it scrappy. Parliament can be taken down the back channel with

:49:08. > :49:11.nit-picking arguments and it is the big arguments that matter and when

:49:12. > :49:15.deployed today. It was the big arguments that won the vote very

:49:16. > :49:17.decisively. Mr Cameron was asked that won the vote very decisively.

:49:18. > :49:22.Mr Cameron was asked many times to apologise. It is the big issue that

:49:23. > :49:27.matters. We have taken that decision and I think we have to think not

:49:28. > :49:31.about debating points but much more about what the arguments where and

:49:32. > :49:36.what difference it is going to make on the ground in that territory

:49:37. > :49:43.between Iraq and Syria. At the end of the day, it has been a historic

:49:44. > :49:48.day for Parliament would you say? An important day and an important vote.

:49:49. > :49:52.In terms of the old military activity, this is not a massive

:49:53. > :49:56.change but it is a very important and significant change. It has to go

:49:57. > :50:01.hand-in-hand with the political tract, with negotiations for

:50:02. > :50:07.resolving the Syrian Civil War and negotiations all around politically

:50:08. > :50:12.to try to make sure we can somehow we introduce a measure of stability

:50:13. > :50:15.into the Middle East. Alan Duncan, thank you very much indeed. We are

:50:16. > :50:20.going to bring back in Vicky Young, our chief political correspondence

:50:21. > :50:25.who is waiting in the wings. We will bring her in any moment. Let us

:50:26. > :50:34.remind you of the voting figures that we had just a few minutes ago.

:50:35. > :50:37.397 in favour, 223 against. I am joined by Tobias Ellwood, the

:50:38. > :50:41.Foreign Office minister who I was talking to earlier on. He is a

:50:42. > :50:48.supporter of the government's position, naturally. What was your

:50:49. > :50:52.reaction to that vote? This vote was about supporting Britain doing what

:50:53. > :50:59.it can to recognise the UN Security Council regulation 200 and 49. We

:51:00. > :51:03.had a proper debate. We looked at all of the issues. The result that

:51:04. > :51:08.we got affects the consensus in the House that the correct thing is to

:51:09. > :51:12.provide support to our allies. To extend air strikes. It is not about

:51:13. > :51:20.bombing Syria as many headlines have put out but it is about taking on

:51:21. > :51:24.borders so we are unable to extend air strikes to help Iraq. We will

:51:25. > :51:33.see more pressure placed on Daesh in morsel. And the liberation of Raqqa

:51:34. > :51:37.will take many months if not longer. In connection with the

:51:38. > :51:41.Vienna talks that are bringing all the stakeholders together, Iran,

:51:42. > :51:45.Saudi Arabia as well as Russia and so forth, we are seeing movement on

:51:46. > :51:49.the political side and we need that movement to take place in

:51:50. > :51:53.conjunction with the military strategy. Do you recognise the day

:51:54. > :51:57.concern and division about this question of air strikes. Opinion

:51:58. > :52:01.polls show the country is split. I do not recognise that at all.

:52:02. > :52:06.There's not a huge majority in favour. Let me make it clear, I see

:52:07. > :52:12.an enemy that does not recognise borders. We have Tornado aircraft

:52:13. > :52:16.with precision bombing unable to cross borders the enemy does not

:52:17. > :52:22.recognise. We are racing pressure on Daesh whilst we are beginning

:52:23. > :52:25.dialogue in Vienna about getting the stakeholders together. We are

:52:26. > :52:32.looking towards the moderate opposition, these are the militias

:52:33. > :52:36.that back in 2011 stood up to President Assad but did not go

:52:37. > :52:39.extremist. They have upheld the communities that we need to work

:52:40. > :52:44.with that provide the ground forces in the long-term to liberate Raqqa.

:52:45. > :52:49.Thank you for your time. Let me bring back in our chief medical

:52:50. > :52:55.correspondence Vicky Young. We have been monitoring the question of who

:52:56. > :53:01.actually voted and in terms of what parties. What is the picture as far

:53:02. > :53:07.as Labour are concerned? 67 Labour MPs voted with the Government, nine

:53:08. > :53:11.or ten of steam. Jeremy Corbyn are pointing towards the Shadow Cabinet

:53:12. > :53:16.with it was about 50-50. He has been able to keep half of his Shadow

:53:17. > :53:20.Cabinet beside him. It was a free vote and a matter of conscience. It

:53:21. > :53:25.was slightly unusual in that but it cannot be seen as a test of Jeremy

:53:26. > :53:39.Corbyn's authority because MPs were allowed to do what they liked. Given

:53:40. > :53:41.the background that there has been to all of this with the difficult

:53:42. > :53:44.Shadow Cabinet meetings, they will draw some comfort from the fact they

:53:45. > :53:46.have been able to keep half of the Shadow Cabinet onside. And dozens

:53:47. > :53:52.and dozens of Labour MPs voted the other way around. The question is

:53:53. > :53:55.what happens after this. The wooden is about this and the pressure that

:53:56. > :54:01.Labour feel they have been under. -- the injuries. Will there be more

:54:02. > :54:05.tension and head over bombing in Iraq and whether Jeremy Corbyn tries

:54:06. > :54:10.to change Party policy over that. From David Cameron's point of view,

:54:11. > :54:14.he sat through lots of that debate, he will be pretty pleased tonight.

:54:15. > :54:18.Before the Paris attacks, he did not think for one moment he will be able

:54:19. > :54:23.to achieve this with such a big majority. The Paris attacks changed

:54:24. > :54:27.everything. He is able to stand alongside his allies and he has

:54:28. > :54:31.spoken many times about how he felt it was unfair that Britain were

:54:32. > :54:34.asking the French and the Americans, and others to carry out

:54:35. > :54:39.bombing raids against people who he considers to be the enemy of this

:54:40. > :54:42.country. The deals that Britain can play its full part in that,

:54:43. > :54:48.something he has wanted to do for the full -- for a long time. Thank

:54:49. > :54:56.you for guiding us through that. The motion to carry out air strikes,

:54:57. > :55:03.British military action in Syria, against Islamic State has been

:55:04. > :55:08.approved by parliament 397 - 223. Our defence correspondence has been

:55:09. > :55:11.looking at what the RAF have already achieved with the air strikes

:55:12. > :55:20.against IDS in Iraq and what they seek to achieve in Syria.

:55:21. > :55:25.The carrier will be bringing more firepower that MPs have voted yes to

:55:26. > :55:28.air strikes in Syria against Islamic State. To get a sense of what they

:55:29. > :55:32.will be able to do you have to look at what they have done in Iraq over

:55:33. > :55:40.the past year. The RAF have won eight of these Tornado jets from

:55:41. > :55:43.Cyprus as well as ten Reaper unmanned drones from a base in the

:55:44. > :55:49.Middle East. Together, they have flown more than 1600 missions. Only

:55:50. > :55:55.one quarter of those missions have they actually fired weapons. So far,

:55:56. > :55:59.the RAF have carried out fewer than 400 air strikes. In terms of what

:56:00. > :56:04.extra Britain will send to the fight against Islamic State, there will be

:56:05. > :56:11.two more of these Tornado bombers going to Cyprus as well as the eight

:56:12. > :56:14.already there. Also the RAF is sending six Typhoon fighters to

:56:15. > :56:21.carry out bombing missions as well. What the-cannot do and the Tornado

:56:22. > :56:25.can is fire this Brimstone missile. The Brimstone missile has got very

:56:26. > :56:30.low collateral damage and it has a small warhead and it can head a

:56:31. > :56:38.target very accurately and it will not cause, says the RAF, any

:56:39. > :56:41.civilian casualties. Both this aircraft may help in the fight

:56:42. > :56:45.against Islamic State and in particular in Syria, it is worth

:56:46. > :56:50.remembering that Britain and the RAF are playing a small role in the

:56:51. > :56:55.wider coalition that is dwarfed by the US military presence. Overall,

:56:56. > :57:02.this US led coalition has carried out 8500 air strikes. The RAF have

:57:03. > :57:07.carried out fewer than 400. Whilst this contribution will be welcomed

:57:08. > :57:08.by the US and other allies, it isn't going to dramatically alter the

:57:09. > :57:22.course of the war. The start of December is the start

:57:23. > :57:26.of the meteorological winter. November will be one of the mildest

:57:27. > :57:27.on record and one of