Labour Leadership Hustings

:00:10. > :00:17.We can cross now live the Cardiff and Jeremy Corbyn has been setting

:00:18. > :00:28.out his vision to rebuild and transform Britain earlier.

:00:29. > :00:36.Mr Corbyn due in Cardiff. We believe he is about to head up to the stage

:00:37. > :00:40.for this very first head-to-head leadership challenge with Owen

:00:41. > :00:49.Smith. As you can see there, the stage being set for him to start

:00:50. > :00:59.speaking shortly. Tonight's debate... To my's debate is a

:01:00. > :01:08.departure from the traditional hustings from last year. Firstly, we

:01:09. > :01:12.are being live. That means everyone is able to watch and the what the

:01:13. > :01:16.candidates have to say. And this time, the candidates will be able to

:01:17. > :01:23.directly debate their positions, which will lead to a lively engaging

:01:24. > :01:27.discussion and help the audience at home understand the position being

:01:28. > :01:33.staked out by each of the two candidates. My name is Catherine

:01:34. > :01:39.Jones. But tonight, I have the task of being the independent moderator

:01:40. > :01:44.this evening. Before we begin, I want to quickly set out how this

:01:45. > :01:47.event will run. Backstage a short while ago, Jeremy Corbyn and Owen

:01:48. > :01:52.Smith drew lots to determine the order in which they would take

:01:53. > :01:56.questions. Over the past week and a half, members and supporters of the

:01:57. > :01:59.Labour Party have been sending in their questions online. There were

:02:00. > :02:03.indeed a significant number of questions so we will try to get to

:02:04. > :02:05.as many of them tonight as possible and get a broad range to reflect

:02:06. > :02:23.that selection. I will put your questions to each

:02:24. > :02:25.candidate in turn and give them 40 seconds each to give the initial

:02:26. > :02:28.answers before opening up the debate between the two candidates. To close

:02:29. > :02:30.the debate this evening, I will invite each candidate to give a

:02:31. > :02:33.speech and why they're the best candidate to lead the Labour Party.

:02:34. > :02:38.Before we kick off, a couple of pieces of housekeeping. If we can

:02:39. > :02:45.ask the audience to refrain from prolonged applause and making

:02:46. > :02:49.comments out of turn. Also, there is more information about the upcoming

:02:50. > :02:58.debates and a form to submit any questions for those debates online.

:02:59. > :03:04.And now, without further ado, let us get on with the debate. For the 2016

:03:05. > :03:15.Labour leadership election, Jeremy Corbyn, Owen Smith, welcome. So, to

:03:16. > :03:23.open the debate tonight, the first question or request comes from David

:03:24. > :03:29.Appleyard. And Owen Smith, we will ask you to open this. David

:03:30. > :03:40.Appleyard asks, can you convince me the URL the person Theresa May would

:03:41. > :03:44.least like to face? I think I can. I think I have got the ideas in this

:03:45. > :03:50.debate. I think I have got the energy this debate and I think I see

:03:51. > :03:54.very clearly what we need to be, which is a powerful credible

:03:55. > :04:02.opposition to the Tory party. They are riding roughshod over us. We

:04:03. > :04:07.have less to Europe. We have got a bankrupt NHS that is destroying

:04:08. > :04:10.Labour's legacy, overcrowding and schools, and we have got carried the

:04:11. > :04:15.fight to the Tories much more vigorously than recent months. I

:04:16. > :04:19.demonstrate in the way for the tax credits issue and turned it, the way

:04:20. > :04:34.in which I bought the cuts to disabled people, I know how to fight

:04:35. > :04:37.these the these Tories. Jeremy Corbyn, can you convince David

:04:38. > :04:42.Appleyard your other person that Theresa May would least like to face

:04:43. > :04:47.at the next general election? Theresa May is a Tory Prime Minister

:04:48. > :04:52.and is likely to preside over a bargain basement economy that will

:04:53. > :04:55.tackle all of our rights, living standards in public services. She

:04:56. > :04:59.does not understand the strength of ordinary people's feelings all over

:05:00. > :05:03.the country which is why I have tried to change Prime Minister's

:05:04. > :05:06.Questions from a public school put into asking the questions are put to

:05:07. > :05:14.me by ordinary people all over this country. I think we can put it to

:05:15. > :05:19.her that what she's doing is wrong and, in the past ten months, we have

:05:20. > :05:23.defeated the government 22 times in Parliament when we work together we

:05:24. > :05:37.win, and when we work together with to defeat Tories. And opening up the

:05:38. > :05:45.debate, Owen Smith. The problem is we are not defeating the Tories. We

:05:46. > :05:54.have had a few victories. But we are behind. We are 14 percentage points

:05:55. > :05:58.by the Tories under Theresa May, 2 million Labour voters would prefer

:05:59. > :06:02.her to Jeremy Corbyn is Prime Minister this country! That has got

:06:03. > :06:11.to be a wake-up call for us all. You cannot be satisfied with that. I do

:06:12. > :06:15.not think that is sufficient. I want us to be looked at by the country as

:06:16. > :06:20.a credible respected opposition and the Labour government in waiting. I

:06:21. > :06:24.know you are radical, I am radical, but I want is to be radical in

:06:25. > :06:36.government not in protesting against the Tories. In the ten months since

:06:37. > :06:39.the last leadership election, we have defeated the Tories many times

:06:40. > :06:48.and you my work together to ensure that happened. We won all four

:06:49. > :06:56.by-elections, we won four Mayall contests, we picked up a lot of

:06:57. > :07:01.support over the general election of 2015. As an opposition, I think we

:07:02. > :07:08.have done very well. We were ahead in May, then came the wave of

:07:09. > :07:17.resignation, then came the threat to unity in the party, and that is what

:07:18. > :07:20.has the doors behind in the polls. I honestly believe that come the end

:07:21. > :07:27.of this contest, you and I will work together in Parliament in order to

:07:28. > :07:30.put forward a decent anti-austerity strategy, even stronger than we have

:07:31. > :07:35.labelled the amount so far because the party I hope will unite around

:07:36. > :07:41.an economic strategy which is about investment to protect and jobs,

:07:42. > :07:45.which is about showing what the Tories are about, and that way, we

:07:46. > :07:59.can use this massive membership will got to defeat the Tories and win a

:08:00. > :08:04.general election. We agree we need a united Labour Party. Disunited

:08:05. > :08:10.parties lose elections. But we have never looked more disunited than we

:08:11. > :08:15.have looked under your leadership! Part of the reason we are so

:08:16. > :08:24.disunited is we are losing, we lost in the local government elections.

:08:25. > :08:30.The Tories won 300 seats. Ed Miliband at this point in the cycle

:08:31. > :08:36.was nine percentage points ahead. We are 14 points behind. Ukip here in

:08:37. > :08:41.Wales 17 seats. It was a disgrace that we have got Ukip in our

:08:42. > :08:48.National Assembly in Wales when you watch, a watch, we are failed in

:08:49. > :08:53.Scotland, behind the Tories. This is not success, Jeremy. Our current

:08:54. > :08:59.trajectory, we will be down 22% at the next election in 2020 under your

:09:00. > :09:02.leadership. No you cannot want that because you want the Labour

:09:03. > :09:07.government. You want to put into practice our principles. You want to

:09:08. > :09:16.actually deliver something for this country. That means winning. It does

:09:17. > :09:28.not mean trading. It means winning. That is what we have got to do. You

:09:29. > :09:33.and I were at the same Shadow Cabinet table when we agreed on the

:09:34. > :09:36.strategy. We agreed on where we would take it to the Tories and we

:09:37. > :09:42.have a significant number of victories. And we did defeat the

:09:43. > :09:48.Tories in the May elections. We were ahead of them at the end of it. And

:09:49. > :09:52.the party 's growing massively in membership. What I do not understand

:09:53. > :10:02.is how you can complain about disunity in the party when you

:10:03. > :10:11.another is the ones who resigned. At the very point... I'm not having

:10:12. > :10:17.that, Jeremy. You knew I was not part of any clue in the Labour

:10:18. > :10:23.Party. I did not resign from the Shadow Cabinet on that Sunday. We

:10:24. > :10:28.want to hear from the candidates, please. You know I came to see you

:10:29. > :10:33.to say, not can I resign? But how do we get out of this problem? You knew

:10:34. > :10:37.we had a no-confidence vote on new knew many of my colleagues, who did

:10:38. > :10:43.not ring me and asked me to resign, had resigned on that Sunday. I went

:10:44. > :10:48.to Jeremy and said clearly, had we get out of this? I never served in

:10:49. > :10:52.your Shadow Cabinet with loyalty and have helped to win those victorious,

:10:53. > :10:56.but you have got to do something to save the Labour Party because at the

:10:57. > :11:00.moment, we face the prospect of a historic split in the Labour Party.

:11:01. > :11:05.You could not answer that question. You did not have an answer as to how

:11:06. > :11:12.we would forge better relations and the party. He simply said, let's

:11:13. > :11:19.have an election. John McDonnell was very clearly happy to split this

:11:20. > :11:24.party. He said as much. I'm not standing by to see the Labour Party

:11:25. > :11:34.split while I have got... I'm not doing it. John McDonnell has been an

:11:35. > :11:40.MP since 1997. He won a seat of the Tories and has made it into a strong

:11:41. > :11:47.labour and seat. You concluded our discussion by offering me unopposed

:11:48. > :11:51.election to a position that is not exist as President of the party and

:11:52. > :11:58.invited me to step aside. I pointed out, yes, there were problems in the

:11:59. > :12:02.Parliamentary Labour Party and I pointed to a Shadow Cabinet the

:12:03. > :12:09.restart long way in the party, Wade Burley on the politics I had adopted

:12:10. > :12:13.beforehand. Surely, the best thing is for us to recognise what is

:12:14. > :12:18.happening in this country and work together to defeat the Tory party,

:12:19. > :12:25.not indulge. I will bring it to a close there. I am sure we will

:12:26. > :12:29.revisit those topics with the next question. This comes from John Barth

:12:30. > :12:34.in London. You will have 30 seconds to summarise answer to this. Jeremy

:12:35. > :12:38.Corbyn, you will answer first. Do you think that in order to be an

:12:39. > :12:42.effective leader of the Labour Party, the leader needs to have the

:12:43. > :12:45.support of the majority of the Labour Members of Parliament? It

:12:46. > :12:53.would be a good thing of Labour MPs got behind their leader and worked

:12:54. > :13:00.with them rather than vote against them all the time. I understand

:13:01. > :13:06.political differences and dissent. I practice that myself. As everybody

:13:07. > :13:10.is very well aware. But personal abuse is not acceptable, endlessly

:13:11. > :13:15.briefing against people is not acceptable and effective leadership

:13:16. > :13:19.must have the support of party members and affiliates and I think

:13:20. > :13:24.Members of Parliament should recognise that the structure of our

:13:25. > :13:28.party has changed and I had last year a very strong democratic

:13:29. > :13:39.mandate to try and change things and is and I believe we have changed

:13:40. > :13:46.politics in this party. Owen Smith, the same again to you. The leader of

:13:47. > :13:52.the Labour Party has a historic duty to hold together a coalition in the

:13:53. > :13:56.coalition with different views. It coalition with different views. It

:13:57. > :14:01.is the principal job of the leader to forge a powerful alliance in the

:14:02. > :14:07.party and country and at Westminster. It has always been the

:14:08. > :14:13.case. It was the case in the 1940s and 60s and today. And Jeremy I am

:14:14. > :14:17.afraid has not been able to hold us together in Westminster. We are a

:14:18. > :14:23.fractured splinter party and the only people who would benefit from

:14:24. > :14:29.that of the Tories. The only people who would benefit from that is the

:14:30. > :14:38.radical right in this country. It is the duty of all of us not to heal

:14:39. > :14:43.these rifts and unite the party. How do you propose to be an effective

:14:44. > :14:47.opposition if you don't have the majority 's board of the

:14:48. > :14:51.Parliamentary Labour Party? The majority of Labour MPs want is to be

:14:52. > :14:55.an effective opposition. A small number are filling up the airwaves

:14:56. > :14:59.with various their full announcements that they constantly

:15:00. > :15:06.make. I want us to put the party together that does take against the

:15:07. > :15:09.Tories. If re-elected, I will appoint a broad Shadow Cabinet as I

:15:10. > :15:14.have before and encourage every Labour MP to work with the shadow

:15:15. > :15:19.team on taking part. But when Labour MPs decide collectively or a small

:15:20. > :15:23.number of them decide collectively not to do something and refused to

:15:24. > :15:26.turn up to a debate on the economy because it was opened by John

:15:27. > :15:35.McDonnell, that is silly and childish. Their duty is to be out

:15:36. > :15:39.there, putting it to the Tories. I agree with Jeremy that some of my

:15:40. > :15:49.colleagues have never been reconciled. Some people have not

:15:50. > :15:55.behaved well. But Jeremy, 172 Labour MPs voted no in new leadership. They

:15:56. > :16:02.are not red Tories, these are people who want to see the Tories back in

:16:03. > :16:09.power, they are not Blairites, they are just Labour MPs. And this sort

:16:10. > :16:14.of abuse, but just because they are not confident in you as a leader

:16:15. > :16:19.they are anti-labour or red Tories, it cannot be allowed to continue. We

:16:20. > :16:24.cannot have this ugly dialogue in the Labour Party. We are fighting

:16:25. > :16:29.like ferrets in a sack. And the Tories will benefit if we're not

:16:30. > :16:36.united. You have got to do more, Jeremy. I do not think you can. I am

:16:37. > :16:42.the last one to do an ugly dialogue with anybody, quite honestly. I read

:16:43. > :16:49.some memoirs of Harold Wilson at the time I was elected to this position,

:16:50. > :16:52.and he used to, every Wednesday afternoon, open his office and any

:16:53. > :16:57.Labour MP could go and talk to him. I have done the same. I have learnt

:16:58. > :17:02.a lot from those conversations. And I hope a blunt things as well. That

:17:03. > :17:07.surely is the right we're doing things. But we have got to recognise

:17:08. > :17:17.that the Parliamentary party is very important of the Labour Party and

:17:18. > :17:20.movement but it is not the entirety of it. We have to represent what our

:17:21. > :17:23.members want, what our affiliates want and the communities that our

:17:24. > :17:27.members and affiliates want. Therefore, I was very pleased when

:17:28. > :17:31.we managed to turn it around from abstaining on the Welfare Reform

:17:32. > :17:38.Bill year ago to absolutely opposing it and eventually working together

:17:39. > :17:46.and defeating them on tax credits. Who led back campaign? I did. I was

:17:47. > :17:58.the shadow Secretary of State for DWP. I was the one who took the

:17:59. > :18:04.fight to Iain Duncan Smith. And I was desperate to fight the Labour

:18:05. > :18:09.victory but at the moment, we are 14 points behind the Tories. We do not

:18:10. > :18:12.look like ousting them from power and that is because we are not

:18:13. > :18:16.convincing the country that they have got to put back their trust in

:18:17. > :18:20.us, that they can look at those under your leadership and see a

:18:21. > :18:24.credible and radical government in waiting. And the reason for that is

:18:25. > :18:30.we have not put in place a programme. We have lots of slogans

:18:31. > :18:37.like anti-austerity but what are we for? I am for pro-prosperity, a

:18:38. > :18:44.British new deal, winning in order to put on the table proper worker's

:18:45. > :18:56.rights. We have got to get into power to do that. We are all there

:18:57. > :18:59.for winning. You made a lot of statements over the last few days

:19:00. > :19:06.and I'm pleased you have, all of them have already been made by the

:19:07. > :19:13.Shadow Cabinet during the past year. If we can come together on an

:19:14. > :19:17.economic strategy which is about investment and public investment and

:19:18. > :19:21.a national investment bank, that is good because that is really what

:19:22. > :19:27.this country needs. The Tories will take us down to a bargain basement

:19:28. > :19:32.island of the continent of Europe with low wages, high profits,

:19:33. > :19:35.grotesque levels of inequality and a growing service economy at the

:19:36. > :19:39.expense of our manufacturing economy. You and I don't want that.

:19:40. > :19:43.We want something different which requires us to work together to get

:19:44. > :19:47.that investment and get a government that is prepared to intervene in the

:19:48. > :19:51.economy and provide everyone with decent standards of living that they

:19:52. > :19:55.not just one but need and deserve and that we do not go into a cycle

:19:56. > :19:59.of intergenerational poverty which is what has happened with 30 years

:20:00. > :20:13.of neoliberal economics or across Europe. You and I agree on much of

:20:14. > :20:19.the analysis of what has gone wrong in our economy. We shared that view

:20:20. > :20:23.that we have got long-term structural crisis. You say we put in

:20:24. > :20:37.place these policies. It is just not true. I have sat in the Shadow

:20:38. > :20:46.Cabinet with you. I do not think I have ever heard you say... I said,

:20:47. > :20:52.let's inset 4% a year in the NHS. I said I would introduce a wealth tax.

:20:53. > :20:56.I said we should cut pension the wealthiest in this country, we

:20:57. > :21:01.should increase corporation tax, reversed the inheritance tax, I have

:21:02. > :21:05.said how we should raise an extra ?20 billion in new taxes the

:21:06. > :21:08.wealthiest people and the corporations in this country and I

:21:09. > :21:14.have said precisely where I would spend that. If we put in place that

:21:15. > :21:17.programme, if you had been articulating those concrete

:21:18. > :21:27.proposals instead of sloganising about anti-austerity, I think we

:21:28. > :21:33.would do better. I really do. We will allowed to go to a close. One

:21:34. > :21:40.of the problems in the last general elections... Can I be very quick?

:21:41. > :21:46.One of the last problems was that we were in effect offering austerity

:21:47. > :21:51.light. We were offering the continuation of wage freezes and I

:21:52. > :21:56.had to change. It has changed. That is why politics is changing in this

:21:57. > :22:01.country and now you find an economic consensus saying, austerity is

:22:02. > :22:13.wrong. That did not happen until John McDonnell was appointed Shadow

:22:14. > :22:20.Chancellor. In the spirit of things, we should get out a quick remark. I

:22:21. > :22:25.agree with Jeremy that he used to be thanked for having helped the Labour

:22:26. > :22:30.Party rediscover its radicalism but we need to be more than radical, we

:22:31. > :22:34.need to be credible. We have got to look like people with the policies

:22:35. > :22:39.and ideas that the country can trust in. While many in the Labour Party

:22:40. > :22:49.might trust you at the moment, the country is not trusting you, and

:22:50. > :22:54.therein lies our problem. I'm afraid we will have to move on to the next

:22:55. > :23:00.topic to make sure we are as fair as possible those questions. Elizabeth

:23:01. > :23:09.will open on this one. What would Labour's Brexit plan B? It is from

:23:10. > :23:16.Gareth Pegg in Leeds. I do not want to Brexit plan under Labour. I think

:23:17. > :23:21.it was a mistake for our country to exit the European Union, it was a

:23:22. > :23:25.monumental mistake, and all of us in the Labour Party should feel a

:23:26. > :23:30.degree of responsibility and shamed by having stopped the Brexit

:23:31. > :23:36.strategy. I do not blame Jeremy the best. 67% of Labour voters voted to

:23:37. > :23:41.stay in but we could have worked a lot harder to win that Brexit vote,

:23:42. > :23:49.and I think you were wrong, Jeremy, to say on the day after the vote

:23:50. > :23:52.that we will trigger article 50 and leave the European Union. We would

:23:53. > :23:56.fight to stay in the European Union. We would say, let's negotiate in the

:23:57. > :24:13.second referendum. The question was, what is Labour's

:24:14. > :24:20.Brexit plan? The EU was far from perfect, but we had to protect

:24:21. > :24:27.workers' rights and extend those rights and signed the posting of the

:24:28. > :24:30.workers directive. I made more media appearances than the rest of the

:24:31. > :24:39.Shadow Cabinet put together during the EU referendum campaign and Owain

:24:40. > :24:44.and I spoke together at a rally in Cardiff on this subject. Straight

:24:45. > :24:48.out of a result, I had a meeting with the European Socialist parties

:24:49. > :24:55.that we would work together with them on environmental issues, market

:24:56. > :25:07.issues and environmental concerns we share. That is the strategy. If the

:25:08. > :25:11.opposition going for a second referendum? We should want to stay

:25:12. > :25:15.in the European Union and we should demand a seat at the table alongside

:25:16. > :25:22.the Tories, arguing the best possible negotiation. The country

:25:23. > :25:27.was lied to by Brexit. We would told we would get this extra ?350

:25:28. > :25:32.million. It was all I and we know that and we do not know what the

:25:33. > :25:39.outturn of this would be so I say let's negotiate hard, let's stand up

:25:40. > :25:42.or we still believe in. We believe in collaboration and cooperation

:25:43. > :25:45.across our country and between countries and I think it would be

:25:46. > :25:51.difficult for Jeremy to take out bike to the Tories because the 30

:25:52. > :25:58.years, you did not believe in the European Union, and we all know it.

:25:59. > :26:04.And you wonder about that conversion at the last minute and workers'

:26:05. > :26:08.rights. But we were part of a much bigger European project. We were

:26:09. > :26:12.leaders in Europe and now we are on the sidelines. We're not that. We

:26:13. > :26:22.are an outward looking country and we should look for harder and under

:26:23. > :26:28.me, we will fight much harder. I opened my speech by saying, we are

:26:29. > :26:32.here because we are the Labour Party and we're not retreating to a small

:26:33. > :26:38.island mentality of running away. We want to work with you for the

:26:39. > :26:42.future. Yes, I have had many criticisms of the European Union,

:26:43. > :26:46.its free-market philosophy, the way in which the Maastricht Treaty was

:26:47. > :26:51.pushed through and the deregulation agenda that Margaret Thatcher and

:26:52. > :26:57.others have pushed through. But I have also worked hard with Socialist

:26:58. > :27:00.parties and unions or across Europe on workers' rights, environmental

:27:01. > :27:11.protection, consumer protection. All of those

:27:12. > :27:15.things that are very important across the continent. We have an

:27:16. > :27:16.opportunity here to put as much pressure as possible on the

:27:17. > :27:18.government, demand be part of negotiations, but above all, protect

:27:19. > :27:21.the environmental issues are so important and maintain access to

:27:22. > :27:25.European markets the industries all over Britain because if we lose that

:27:26. > :27:29.access to those markets, it is very unclear how quickly or where they

:27:30. > :27:33.will be replaced by you know that as well as I do. I do know that,

:27:34. > :27:40.Jeremy. I thought it was a mistake for us to come off the back of the

:27:41. > :27:45.Brexit vote and say let's sugar Article 50. I do not understand why

:27:46. > :27:50.you wanted to do that. We should still be fighting for what we

:27:51. > :27:54.believe in, which is remaining part of the European Union. It is more

:27:55. > :27:58.than workers' rights and environmental protection. It is a

:27:59. > :28:03.disaster we have left because now we are left with very little

:28:04. > :28:07.protection, very little mitigation against our right wing rotten Tory

:28:08. > :28:12.government that will use this as an excuse to strip away the rights that

:28:13. > :28:16.we believe in and Europe is our safeguard for those rights. We

:28:17. > :28:21.should have been in the trenches, fighting for it, every day. I do not

:28:22. > :28:32.think we fought hard enough and it breaks my heart.

:28:33. > :28:45.Can we just respond to the point that Owen Smith made about tangoing

:28:46. > :28:50.-- triggering article 50. I said it was inevitable it should be

:28:51. > :28:57.triggered. Maybe I should choose my words more carefully. It is going to

:28:58. > :29:04.be triggered at some point. It is going to be triggered at some point

:29:05. > :29:09.and will be. I hope not. I don't know when it will be triggered. We

:29:10. > :29:16.have to recognise a referendum was cold, it did take place and a

:29:17. > :29:21.majority, sadly not my wish, a majority voted to leave. By half

:29:22. > :29:29.week -- I think we have to do all we can on the areas we agreed to try to

:29:30. > :29:32.ensure we continue having access for industry to the market.

:29:33. > :29:36.Environmental and consumer regulations. All those things. I

:29:37. > :29:39.have arranged for a meeting which I hope you will attend with the

:29:40. > :29:45.Norwegian Labour Party in September to discuss how they do things and

:29:46. > :29:55.discuss what their relationship is with the European Union. I would be

:29:56. > :30:02.delighted... I do think this is a fundamental issue of leadership. It

:30:03. > :30:09.is the most disastrous situation. Worse than ours to lose an election,

:30:10. > :30:15.for us to be leaving the European Union and become an isolated island.

:30:16. > :30:19.I say to you, if you win this contest and you remain leader of our

:30:20. > :30:25.party, will you agree with me that it should be our policy to push hard

:30:26. > :30:31.in these Brexit negotiations and put it to the country again in a second

:30:32. > :30:37.referendum or at the general election? It will likely be at a

:30:38. > :30:42.general election. We campaigned as a party and got more than two thirds

:30:43. > :30:47.of our supporters to vote to remain, but it wasn't evenly spread across

:30:48. > :30:52.the country, as you well know. My constituency voted 72% to remain.

:30:53. > :30:58.Constituencies in the valleys and in other places voted quite strongly to

:30:59. > :31:08.leave. We have to win those people back. The reason they did that was

:31:09. > :31:11.because there has been underinvestment in those

:31:12. > :31:12.communities. We agree about that. We need a re-industrialisation

:31:13. > :31:18.programme. Would need to deal with wages, workers' rights, we need to

:31:19. > :31:24.invest in those communities. But it would be so much easier to do that

:31:25. > :31:27.inside Europe. Let's be clear. The Bank of England met today and

:31:28. > :31:36.reduced interest rates to their lowest level for 300 years. The

:31:37. > :31:38.announced another ?60 billion of investment in our bankers, in order

:31:39. > :31:45.to refloat the economy. They said inflation is going to go up, house

:31:46. > :31:50.prices are going to go up, wages are going to fall, and because of our

:31:51. > :31:59.leaving the European Union. It is an unmitigated disaster. Get real. The

:32:00. > :32:09.result was really. We have to make the best of it. We have to fight to

:32:10. > :32:15.stay in. There was a question from Gerald. Could Labour Party have done

:32:16. > :32:20.more during the campaign? Could the Labour Party have provided better

:32:21. > :32:29.leadership in this? We spent a lot of money on it, we did a lot of

:32:30. > :32:34.campaigning. I travelled the whole country doing a large number of

:32:35. > :32:38.rallies and meetings. I think one of the problems was that until the last

:32:39. > :32:43.few days of the campaign, the media were only interested in the split in

:32:44. > :32:47.the Tory party and it was very hard for us to get any coverage of what

:32:48. > :32:54.was really going on. Obviously there are lessons to be learned from every

:32:55. > :33:00.campaign you undertake. I did not blame the media. I said it was one

:33:01. > :33:05.factor. Not the only factor. We worked hard as a party. We got the

:33:06. > :33:11.vast majority of our supporters to vote for remain. The Tory party did

:33:12. > :33:14.the opposite and less than a third of their supporters actually voted

:33:15. > :33:20.to remain. The result is what the result is. We now have to work with

:33:21. > :33:24.it to try to protect jobs, industry, the environment and the social

:33:25. > :33:32.issues that are so important. Things where we have benefited in the

:33:33. > :33:38.European Union. Owen and I spoke together at a remain rally in

:33:39. > :33:45.Cardiff City Hall not that long ago. We did. You spoke very well, but you

:33:46. > :33:49.spoke in limited terms about our European union. You spoke about

:33:50. > :33:52.workers' rights and we agree that. Environmental protection and we

:33:53. > :33:58.agree on that. And I don't think you spoke with a passion that so many

:33:59. > :34:04.others feel in the Labour Party about the reasons for being in.

:34:05. > :34:09.Internationalism, peace, prosperity. I'm not happy with socialism in one

:34:10. > :34:15.country. I wanted for all the peoples in Europe. We can be a

:34:16. > :34:19.civilising force for good in the European Union. But now we are out

:34:20. > :34:25.of it and that, for me, is an absolute travesty. Just to clarify,

:34:26. > :34:34.should the terms of a Brexit be put to the people? Owen Smith? Should be

:34:35. > :34:39.put to the people in a referendum? Definitely. Once we know what the

:34:40. > :34:47.deal looks like. Jeremy Corbyn, a brief answer? I think it will come

:34:48. > :34:51.to us in a general election. 2020 or before that. I want to work as

:34:52. > :34:55.closely as possible with Europe, with protecting those issues, but

:34:56. > :35:01.above all the economic integration between Europe and Britain is

:35:02. > :35:04.essential, otherwise a very large number of jobs, particularly in the

:35:05. > :35:19.manufacturing industry, will be lost. Will you be pushing for it? We

:35:20. > :35:23.will move onto next question. This is a question from John Berry in

:35:24. > :35:29.Cornwall. What is your industrial policy which will make the UK

:35:30. > :35:33.competitive in the global economy of the 21st-century? Primarily, it is

:35:34. > :35:36.about investment in manufacturing and funding technology industries in

:35:37. > :35:44.this country. And investment bank that will improve infrastructure.

:35:45. > :35:49.Cornwall has the lowest wages in the whole country. Some of the greatest

:35:50. > :35:55.needs for increased investment. The same with the north-east of England

:35:56. > :36:03.and the north-west of England, and parts of Wales. This is about

:36:04. > :36:06.training, it is about good quality apprenticeships, it is about not

:36:07. > :36:13.penalising young people for wanting to go to university and become

:36:14. > :36:24.qualified. It is investment in people, education and good quality

:36:25. > :36:30.jobs. My strategy would be to write some of the wrongs that previous

:36:31. > :36:36.governments, labour and Tory, have done to our economy. We have not

:36:37. > :36:41.invested in. We have allowed regional inequalities. We have

:36:42. > :36:47.allowed Britain to become the industrialised. Manufacturing used

:36:48. > :36:51.to be the mainstay of our economy. Germany and the Netherlands and

:36:52. > :36:54.other countries have a much more powerful manufacturing sector. We

:36:55. > :36:59.need a proper industrial strategy backed up with a big infrastructure

:37:00. > :37:06.programme that kick-started a British new Deal. Crucially, we need

:37:07. > :37:11.to start making things again. Really industrialising parts of the world

:37:12. > :37:22.that I come from and represent. That is the secret to getting Britain

:37:23. > :37:28.working again. Renationalisation is a common theme in your policies. How

:37:29. > :37:33.will this make us more competitive in the global market? We will be

:37:34. > :37:38.playing to our strengths, which are skills and innovation. Far too many

:37:39. > :37:41.new products that are developed at research places universities in

:37:42. > :37:44.Britain end up not being developed here and they go abroad because

:37:45. > :37:49.nobody is prepared to put capital into it. Or companies come in, buy

:37:50. > :37:51.up a small company that has done some really interesting new

:37:52. > :38:09.developments, and say to them, let's take it somewhere else. We need a

:38:10. > :38:11.different strategy in doing this. We also need to promote solutions in

:38:12. > :38:14.Britain that encourage manufacturing. For example, I was at

:38:15. > :38:16.a place in Widnes that makes the towers for wind turbines. Their

:38:17. > :38:18.industry has totally plummeted in the past couple of years because the

:38:19. > :38:22.government cut down the feed in tariffs to an unsustainable level,

:38:23. > :38:27.therefore nobody wants to buy them here. By maintaining those feed in

:38:28. > :38:30.tariffs for another five years, that would have sustained and developed

:38:31. > :38:36.that industry and the solar power industry. There are a whole number

:38:37. > :38:41.of areas where government intervention can help. Some are

:38:42. > :38:45.brilliant and very good. Some are just called for a very low pay and

:38:46. > :38:56.gross exploitation of people who think they are on an apprenticeship.

:38:57. > :39:01.Owen Smith? The Tories have presided over the slowest recovery from a

:39:02. > :39:06.recession in 100 years. We have got the biggest downturn in wages. The

:39:07. > :39:12.largest increase in job insecurity. The biggest growth in inequalities

:39:13. > :39:18.in this country, regional inequalities and individuals. The

:39:19. > :39:24.Tory government are announcing another ?60 billion for the banks.

:39:25. > :39:30.Due to a recession caused not by Labour spending on schools and

:39:31. > :39:35.hospitals, but by Tory greed and bankers greed. That is the reality.

:39:36. > :39:39.I am still angry, as I know Jeremy is, that none of those bankers have

:39:40. > :39:43.gone to jail. At the best thing we can do is put in place a framework

:39:44. > :39:48.for free-floating not the bankers, but the people, investing in Britain

:39:49. > :39:52.once more. Not compounding the problem with more austerity, but we

:39:53. > :40:14.have to be concrete about it. It is not just enough to say

:40:15. > :40:18.we are going to be anti-austerity. We have to say, how are we going to

:40:19. > :40:20.raise the money to invest in day-to-day services and in our

:40:21. > :40:23.industry? By first of all borrowing ?200 billion of British new Deal, we

:40:24. > :40:29.haven't had that before from Labour in the last nine months. And by

:40:30. > :40:32.raising taxes. Not getting back to the bonus culture that sees Philip

:40:33. > :40:38.Green and others on their yacht whilst nurses and care worker Caesar

:40:39. > :40:52.pay frozen. Good old-fashioned socialist policies. Ones that people

:40:53. > :40:59.can believe in. One of the mistakes we have made before was then the

:41:00. > :41:00.banking crisis came, we build up with ?300 billion of quantitative

:41:01. > :41:16.easing. We didn't invest in the manufacturing

:41:17. > :41:21.industry. Some were pulling buy to let mortgages from the marketplace.

:41:22. > :41:25.As some of them have turned around a bit, like Lloyds, ?2.5 billion

:41:26. > :41:29.profit, the result is they dismiss a large number of their staff and

:41:30. > :41:36.close 200 more branches. We have a public stake in these banks. We

:41:37. > :41:51.should exercise and use these public states. I agree. I say about all of

:41:52. > :42:01.these things, we agree about so much of this stuff, we are both men... So

:42:02. > :42:05.why did you resign? I don't think we can win, Jeremy. Without being able

:42:06. > :42:13.to win, without being able to put our principles into action, I don't

:42:14. > :42:18.think we can do anything other than protest about it. We have to win in

:42:19. > :42:25.order to get this stuff done. Otherwise it is just hot air,

:42:26. > :42:34.Jeremy. Thank you. The next question comes from Georgina Alan. The

:42:35. > :42:38.British public appears to be convinced the Labour Party is a

:42:39. > :42:43.financially irresponsible party. How would you challenge this white held

:42:44. > :42:49.view? Added spell at precisely where all the money that I want to spend

:42:50. > :42:53.on improving public services, we were to come from. That is why we

:42:54. > :42:58.failed to win back trust in the last nine months. We have not been clear.

:42:59. > :43:10.We have said we are anti-austerity, but we have not said specifically

:43:11. > :43:13.enough what we are in favour of or Hollywood funded. I would be clear.

:43:14. > :43:15.?200 million to invest in public services, in schools, in health

:43:16. > :43:20.care, in hospitals. New taxis on the wealthiest. Get rid of the big cut

:43:21. > :43:28.in corporation tax. Put it back up to 20% at least. Make sure we are

:43:29. > :43:31.not offering the wealthiest more tax breaks. Reform our pension system.

:43:32. > :43:37.It is rigged against ordinary workers. Be credible... Thank you,

:43:38. > :43:46.Owen Smith. Jeremy Corbyn, what is your opening response to this? How

:43:47. > :43:50.do you convince people the Labour Party is financially responsible? By

:43:51. > :43:55.spending money sensibly and wisely, not wasting it as this government is

:43:56. > :44:02.doing. If you charge people unreasonably high rents and use the

:44:03. > :44:08.profits to subsidise landlords, that is wasting money. If people need to

:44:09. > :44:13.access working tax credits to keep their head above water, that is not

:44:14. > :44:20.a sensible use of money. A large housing programme that will build 1

:44:21. > :44:24.million new homes over five years, council housing, lifetime tenancy,

:44:25. > :44:30.proper investment. Good sense, good business and creates good jobs, not

:44:31. > :44:35.just for building workers but all down the supply chain. That is

:44:36. > :44:42.financial sense. Fiscal responsibility was at the heart of

:44:43. > :44:50.Ed Miliband's manifesto. You have had ten months at the helm. Why are

:44:51. > :44:54.people still convinced that Labour is a financially irresponsible

:44:55. > :44:58.party? We need to get the message out there about what is financially

:44:59. > :45:02.irresponsible in this government, in its waste of money, on the way it

:45:03. > :45:08.does a lot of things, its lack of investment in public need and the

:45:09. > :45:11.disgraceful way it has treated local government or across England and the

:45:12. > :45:15.way it has treated the Welsh and Scottish Government in the funding

:45:16. > :45:19.they get. That is actually irresponsible because what you end

:45:20. > :45:23.up doing is making the poorest and most vulnerable pay the highest

:45:24. > :45:29.price. We have to get the message out there, this government is about

:45:30. > :45:34.hitting the poorest in our society. How are you going to do that?

:45:35. > :45:39.Successive Labour leaders have tried, but why isn't the message

:45:40. > :45:42.getting out there? We will do our best to get that message out there

:45:43. > :45:48.in our campaign and through the media. We will do our best to put it

:45:49. > :45:52.out there, that inequality is a waste. Tax write-offs and tax havens

:45:53. > :45:59.are irresponsible and fundamentally wrong. I would've thought the Panama

:46:00. > :46:02.papers were so obvious about everything that is wrong in modern

:46:03. > :46:10.Britain and the way the wealthy think they can evade tax. Successive

:46:11. > :46:16.Labour leaders have tried to evade this, how will you change this? By

:46:17. > :46:20.showing the country the balance sheet. Quite simply. By saying we

:46:21. > :46:26.can get ?6 billion from reversing the corporation tax. We can get an

:46:27. > :46:29.extra 1 billion by getting rid of the inheritance tax, allowing

:46:30. > :46:38.millionaires to pass on their homes to their children free of charge. We

:46:39. > :46:42.can get ?3 billion by introducing a surcharge on the dividends and

:46:43. > :46:48.shares held by only the wealthiest 1%. Those people already earning

:46:49. > :46:52.?150,000 a year, practical policies. Then saying to the public, what

:46:53. > :47:02.would we spend this money on? We would spend it on the NHS. 4% a year

:47:03. > :47:07.to get us back up to the levels... Practical policies. If we were

:47:08. > :47:11.explicit, concrete and credible, we would be listened to. At present, 2

:47:12. > :47:16.million labour voters are telling us they would rather have a Tory Prime

:47:17. > :47:30.Minister than a Labour government, and that has got to be a wake-up

:47:31. > :47:37.call to everybody in this party. In a time of great national debt, how

:47:38. > :47:41.is campaigning on a policy of being anti-austerity going to reinforce an

:47:42. > :47:46.idea that Labour is financially responsible? They have doubled the

:47:47. > :47:52.debt under the Tories. The borrowed 40 billion extra this year than you

:47:53. > :47:57.are projected to do six months ago. It has failed. Fundamentally. The

:47:58. > :48:02.NHS is going bust right across this country. Our councils are having to

:48:03. > :48:15.strip millions of pounds out of their budgets. Austerity has

:48:16. > :48:18.fundamentally failed Britain. It is time for a Labour government to say,

:48:19. > :48:21.let's start investing in this country. It is not a question of

:48:22. > :48:24.whether we can afford to do this, it is a question of whether we can

:48:25. > :48:26.afford not to do it. They keep saying to me, the Tories across the

:48:27. > :48:29.chamber, you will leave debts for our children. My answer is I am not

:48:30. > :48:32.prepared to leave crumbling schools and talk in hospitals and in

:48:33. > :48:40.infrastructure and industry in this country that is unfit to serve my

:48:41. > :48:48.children. So I will invest as leader of this party. I will make sure a

:48:49. > :48:53.Labour government will invest. Of course it is about investment in

:48:54. > :48:58.manufacturing industry, in social infrastructure, in education. It's

:48:59. > :49:03.not setting false targets to pay off the debt or move into surplus.

:49:04. > :49:09.George Osborne find that out the hard way. His five-year plan has one

:49:10. > :49:13.consistent theme to it, it is always five years away. The new Chancellor

:49:14. > :49:17.is not that much different Matt. This morning, the Bank of England

:49:18. > :49:22.put 60 billion more into the economy in order to try to stave off

:49:23. > :49:27.recession. You cannot cut your way to prosperity, you invest your way

:49:28. > :49:32.to prosperity. We have the lowest level of investment of any OTC

:49:33. > :49:40.country. And it's going down words. If we don't invest, we don't get the

:49:41. > :49:47.jobs or infrastructure and we decline as a society. You can do

:49:48. > :49:50.everything as a service economy alone. I have to see this. We have

:49:51. > :49:52.made mistakes ourselves. In the last general election, we were not an

:49:53. > :49:54.anti-austerity party. We were proposing to continue with the

:49:55. > :49:58.public sector wage freeze and continue with some level of cuts in

:49:59. > :50:07.public services. We have changed and developed our policies and a much

:50:08. > :50:10.better way. I want us to go further down the road of investment and

:50:11. > :50:15.create jobs and investment for all. Not cuts and allow these grotesque

:50:16. > :50:21.levels of inequality in our society to continue. I fundamentally agree

:50:22. > :50:28.with Jeremy about that. But Jeremy, in order to do it, we have to win in

:50:29. > :50:33.Cardiff North, we have to win in Nuneaton, we have to win in Milton

:50:34. > :50:38.Keynes, we have to win in Kingswood, we have to win 100 seats from the

:50:39. > :50:45.Tories. We have to get Tories and Greens and liberals to vote Labour.

:50:46. > :50:53.At the moment, they are not going to do that. All of the evidence shows

:50:54. > :50:59.us we are likely to be at 22%. I am not satisfied or complacent. Winning

:51:00. > :51:05.in Bristol, London and other parts of the country, it is great, but we

:51:06. > :51:14.were 18 seats down in the local elections. Ukip in the assembly.

:51:15. > :51:25.Hang the Tories in Scotland. This is not progress. We're going backwards,

:51:26. > :51:29.my friend, back words. Thank you. We have been having some audience

:51:30. > :51:37.participation. This is the next topic. What are your views on the

:51:38. > :51:51.renewal of Trident? I voted against the renewal of Trident.

:51:52. > :52:02.In fairness to yourself, we will start again for the timing. Please

:52:03. > :52:08.keep your applause. Let's start again. I voted against the renewal

:52:09. > :52:13.of Trident because I want to live in a nuclear free world. Parliament was

:52:14. > :52:17.invited to vote for a blank cheque to the government for a renewal of

:52:18. > :52:21.Trident with no financial costing behind it. The points I made were

:52:22. > :52:27.simply this. It was a Labour government that developed the

:52:28. > :52:30.nuclear treaty in the 1960s. Article six requires the declared nuclear

:52:31. > :52:39.weapons states, of which Britain is one, to take steps towards nuclear

:52:40. > :52:41.disarmament. Renewal of Trident is going in the opposite direction. I

:52:42. > :52:46.want to be in a Labour government that fulfils or obligations and does

:52:47. > :52:51.everything it can to encourage other areas of the world to become nuclear

:52:52. > :52:58.free zones, which has worked and been very effective. And carry out

:52:59. > :53:09.our obligations under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. I

:53:10. > :53:14.appreciate you keeping applause until the end. Owen Smith, where do

:53:15. > :53:23.you stand? My great political hero is Aneurin Bevan. I agree with him.

:53:24. > :53:28.I'm in favour of a world without nuclear weapons. I'm in favour of a

:53:29. > :53:32.Labour Party of being in the vanguard of looking for multilateral

:53:33. > :53:39.nuclear disarmament. All weapons should be got rid of. If I sincerely

:53:40. > :53:41.believe that I would assist multilateral disarmament, everybody

:53:42. > :53:48.getting rid of their nuclear weapons, by Di vesting ourselves of

:53:49. > :53:54.ours first, I would do it tomorrow. It is a start! But I believe the

:53:55. > :53:59.world has become a more volatile place. Russia is more dangerous

:54:00. > :54:05.power than it used to be. My view on this is clear. We must retain a

:54:06. > :54:11.nuclear deterrent in order to enable the multilateral disarmament of the

:54:12. > :54:16.entire world's Arsenal. That is the unfortunate terrible truth. Jeremy

:54:17. > :54:23.and I disagree about that. This is an emotive topic. It would be good

:54:24. > :54:29.to have a good discussion on it. Does it make us vulnerable if we

:54:30. > :54:33.don't have a nuclear deterrent? 197 countries in the world do not have

:54:34. > :54:38.nuclear weapons. There are five declared nuclear weapon states.

:54:39. > :54:42.Additionally, nuclear weapons are held by India, Pakistan, Israel and

:54:43. > :54:47.North Korea. The six party talks hopefully will help to bring about

:54:48. > :54:52.some kind of security on the Korean peninsula and pressure from China

:54:53. > :54:55.would help to do that. Promotion of a Middle East weapons of mass

:54:56. > :55:00.destruction zone would help to bring Israel and Iran eventually, we are a

:55:01. > :55:05.long way off, but bring them to the principle of that. I simply say

:55:06. > :55:08.this. If we spend all this money on replacing the Trident nuclear

:55:09. > :55:15.missile system, what is the message we are giving to the rest of the

:55:16. > :55:18.world? Would it not be better if we redoubled our efforts of the nuclear

:55:19. > :55:23.Non-Proliferation Treaty, encourage other nations to go in the same

:55:24. > :55:26.direction, but also asked ourselves the question, under what

:55:27. > :55:31.circumstances would you use it? Secondly, are we aware that it is

:55:32. > :55:34.the ultimate weapon of mass destruction that indiscriminately

:55:35. > :55:40.kills very large numbers of civilians? And the security issues

:55:41. > :55:43.that face this planet at the present time are any of those security

:55:44. > :55:48.issues actually going to be solved by the use of nuclear weapons? Or

:55:49. > :55:52.are they going to be solved by political action, by political

:55:53. > :55:55.dialogue, by promotion of human rights, justice and democracy in

:55:56. > :56:06.every single part of the world and of a foreign policy that puts that

:56:07. > :56:12.is the headline figure, rather than...

:56:13. > :56:19.We are all aware of the appalling consequences of any country in the

:56:20. > :56:23.world using nuclear weapons. That is why we should all want to get rid of

:56:24. > :56:29.all nuclear weapons. The only point where Jeremy Hunt I disagree is how

:56:30. > :56:34.we best achieve that. And we do disagree about this. Jeremy's view

:56:35. > :56:38.is one I held 25 years ago, which as we get rid of ours first as a

:56:39. > :56:46.gesture and we encourage the rest of the world to do likewise. But I say

:56:47. > :56:50.to you, Jeremy, I think that is unfortunately naive. I don't believe

:56:51. > :56:55.that we will encourage the rest of the world to do it. I do believe

:56:56. > :57:00.that we have appallingly allowed successive governments, multilateral

:57:01. > :57:04.disarmament to fall away from where it ought to be, at the forefront of

:57:05. > :57:08.international diplomacy and debate. We want to put it back on the table,

:57:09. > :57:14.but I think we are better able to do that if we come to that table with a

:57:15. > :57:20.bargaining chip. If we throw that bargaining chip away, we lose out

:57:21. > :57:24.the ability to ask other countries to get rid of their own weapons.

:57:25. > :57:29.What do you say to those countries who don't have nuclear weapons and

:57:30. > :57:33.don't want them, to countries like South Africa, Argentina and Brazil

:57:34. > :57:38.that have willingly given up their nuclear weapons in order to live in

:57:39. > :57:42.a safer world? They have the moral authority to do it. But surely you

:57:43. > :57:46.and I can both agree that security issues that face the world are not

:57:47. > :57:51.going to be solved by the detonation of a nuclear bomb which would kill

:57:52. > :57:55.millions, which would drive the whole world into recession and

:57:56. > :58:00.create an environmental disaster, not just in the area where the bomb

:58:01. > :58:08.went off? Listen, I have met people who were victims of nuclear testing

:58:09. > :58:12.on a Pacific island. As have I. Those people all see a nuclear

:58:13. > :58:16.weapon is totally indiscriminate. These were innocent fishermen living

:58:17. > :58:22.on islands in the Pacific who are now suffering terminal cancers as a

:58:23. > :58:31.result of those tests all those years ago. None of us are going to

:58:32. > :58:35.argue how awful these things are. South Africa is a great example.

:58:36. > :58:42.They got rid of their weapons unilaterally. The rest of the world

:58:43. > :58:45.did not disarm. And we are not South Africa. We are one of the permanent

:58:46. > :58:50.five members of the Security Council, one of the great powers in

:58:51. > :58:57.the world in security terms and for us to powerfully go into the debate

:58:58. > :59:00.with other countries and push for multilateral nonproliferation and

:59:01. > :59:06.disarmament, I think we need to be able to say to those countries,

:59:07. > :59:10.look, we are progressively disarming ourselves, but we need to have a

:59:11. > :59:14.powerful argument to make. We have got ours and we will get rid of them

:59:15. > :59:19.in exchange for there is. It is a basic fact of bartering or

:59:20. > :59:25.negotiating. You used to be a trade union negotiator. You should

:59:26. > :59:28.understand you after power going a negotiation. I understand that. I

:59:29. > :59:30.think that is what we should be doing in order to get rid of the

:59:31. > :59:45.entire world's Arsenal. When I have attended nuclear

:59:46. > :59:48.Non-Proliferation Treaty conferences and humanitarian against war

:59:49. > :59:52.conferences, the countries that come there are from all over the world

:59:53. > :59:57.and they are interested in living in a nuclear free world. Yes, they

:59:58. > :00:01.listen to some extent what we are saying and what Russia and the USA

:00:02. > :00:09.and China and France are saying, but they list of file -- listen far more

:00:10. > :00:15.intently to South Africa about how they can practically bring about

:00:16. > :00:20.cut-off, how you can bring about an end to the testing at any level of

:00:21. > :00:25.nuclear weapons and how you can seriously bring about a nuclear free

:00:26. > :00:29.world. They say why if your country is so keen on bringing about a

:00:30. > :00:34.nuclear free country about to spend a very large sum of money, let's say

:00:35. > :00:39.a hundred billionths, on a replacement of Trident, they say why

:00:40. > :00:42.argue doing it when you have so much to give to the world of your human

:00:43. > :00:46.rights tradition and your democratic traditions. -- let's say ?100

:00:47. > :01:08.billion. Up Lawes. -- up Lawes. I do not agree with you, I do not

:01:09. > :01:12.think that Russia and America lives more carefully to South Africa in

:01:13. > :01:18.respect to South Africa than they do to us, I do not think that is right.

:01:19. > :01:22.I think this is an IDS district position and one we should aspire

:01:23. > :01:36.to, but I do not think it is showing leadership for us. -- this is a

:01:37. > :01:40.sensible position. Onto the issue of immigration and this comes from

:01:41. > :01:46.Charlie Mason in Pembrokeshire. I am sure both of you condemn xenophobia

:01:47. > :01:51.and racism as much as you promote immigration, but do you recognise

:01:52. > :01:56.that areas in the UK feel an easy about immigration and if so what

:01:57. > :02:02.would you do to reduce this unease? I will start that with Owen Smith.

:02:03. > :02:07.The first thing I won't do is do watch Theresa May did, Trail racist

:02:08. > :02:12.ad vans around the country in order to whip up hatred and intolerance

:02:13. > :02:17.and division and I will not do what Nigel Farage did which is stand in

:02:18. > :02:21.front of those racist posters. It has been heartbreaking in recent

:02:22. > :02:29.months, especially during the Brexit campaign to see racism and

:02:30. > :02:33.intolerance emerged in Britain, but we have too acknowledged that there

:02:34. > :02:37.are pressures that immigration brings and we have two deal with

:02:38. > :02:42.them and we deal with them through investment. There are pressures on

:02:43. > :02:47.doctors and hospitals and schools waiting lists, all of those things

:02:48. > :02:51.or effect it. If we invest through a British new Deal, we would mitigate

:02:52. > :02:56.many of those new pressures and people would be easier in this

:02:57. > :03:06.country. Thank you, Owen Smith. APPLAUSE

:03:07. > :03:11.Do you recognise the unease? I do and I do recognise the need for

:03:12. > :03:14.funding in areas where there are problems, school places, health

:03:15. > :03:19.facilities and housing through the Clemente should of a migrant impact

:03:20. > :03:22.fund which this government has abolished and it was set up by the

:03:23. > :03:26.last Labour government and refused to access the EU funds that could

:03:27. > :03:31.deal with those issues and I think it is important we do that. Secondly

:03:32. > :03:36.recognise we do live in a multicultural society and all of us

:03:37. > :03:41.have benefited from the brilliance of people who have made their homes

:03:42. > :03:47.here and made a contribution to our society and help to run our

:03:48. > :03:54.universities and science industry and schools and NHS. Fund these

:03:55. > :04:04.areas, but turn against any kind of racist trolling within our society.

:04:05. > :04:12.APPLAUSE You are agreed in some kind of fund,

:04:13. > :04:19.but what about controlling migration numbers. We have to have an honest

:04:20. > :04:22.look at this issue and an honest conversation with the British

:04:23. > :04:26.people. Many people in the referendum both were concerned about

:04:27. > :04:32.immigration, we know that from the polling. For us in labour the first

:04:33. > :04:37.thing we have to do is say our values are those of tolerance and

:04:38. > :04:42.solidarity and we are an immigrant nation. My family come from England

:04:43. > :04:46.and Spain, my wife's family come from India and Scotland. This part

:04:47. > :04:53.of the world where we are standing here today is made up of immigrants.

:04:54. > :04:56.We have to be proud about the mixed heritage of our country and

:04:57. > :05:01.truthfully if we were not going through the worst recession we have

:05:02. > :05:03.seen in generations, if we were not deemed a Tory government cutting

:05:04. > :05:11.back through austerity and all of the service that all our communities

:05:12. > :05:16.rely upon, if we were investing properly, then we would not see this

:05:17. > :05:22.intolerance. That means crucially we have to be in power. I say it again,

:05:23. > :05:30.all of this comes back to labour being in power and we are not in

:05:31. > :05:36.power! APPLAUSE The question I asked was do we need

:05:37. > :05:41.to control immigration numbers? We have seen the Tories play a losing

:05:42. > :05:45.game of setting targets. I will not turn around and say let's have a

:05:46. > :05:52.finite target for immigration because we know it does not work.

:05:53. > :05:57.You missed those targets, many parts of our country require integration.

:05:58. > :06:01.The nurses in the hospital, over the road is the Heath Hospital in

:06:02. > :06:09.Cardiff, it is full of foreign nurses. We need to control the level

:06:10. > :06:13.of it? In some areas of the country it does cause problems and our job

:06:14. > :06:18.is to form a government in order to mitigate the problem is, it is not

:06:19. > :06:24.our job to inflame pressures and divisions. Control or no control? I

:06:25. > :06:28.have just said we should not be setting a finite number. We are

:06:29. > :06:32.about to leave the EU and that will not solve the problems, we should be

:06:33. > :06:39.in Europe fighting for everybody across Europe. APPLAUSE

:06:40. > :06:45.Should we be controlling our borders? Non-European migration is

:06:46. > :06:50.very strictly controlled, often very unfairly particularly in the case of

:06:51. > :06:57.Family Reunion when arbitrary levels of income are demanded, that needs

:06:58. > :07:04.to be looked at and change. In the case of European migration if we are

:07:05. > :07:08.part of space even call -- if we are part of the single market then with

:07:09. > :07:13.that comes free movement of labour. I want to demand the signing of the

:07:14. > :07:18.postal workers directive to prevent the importation of a whole workforce

:07:19. > :07:22.to undercut a workforce that is already here in this country and

:07:23. > :07:26.destroy the wages and conditions in that particular industry and I have

:07:27. > :07:29.raised this with colleagues all across Europe. The British

:07:30. > :07:36.government said it would sign the posting of workers directive.

:07:37. > :07:40.Bringing quality across Europe would have a big impact on that. We have

:07:41. > :07:45.to recognise that without migrant workers we would not have the health

:07:46. > :07:50.service we have got, the education service we have got many other

:07:51. > :07:52.things. When Nigel Farage in the referendum campaign produced that

:07:53. > :07:58.utterly disgusting poster which showed a group of desperate people,

:07:59. > :08:03.in that desperate group of people there were doctors, engineers,

:08:04. > :08:08.nurses, scientists, farmers, people fleeing from a war and he says they

:08:09. > :08:17.are the threat. Surely we can have a hand of humanity rather than a hand

:08:18. > :08:29.of abuse. APPLAUSE So to summarise, is that a yes or

:08:30. > :08:33.no, is it a halfway house? There is control of non-European migration.

:08:34. > :08:37.There is busy control of that. The European migration within a single

:08:38. > :08:41.market there has to be a harmonising condition, there has to be

:08:42. > :08:45.preventing of the undercutting wages, that will reduce the flow.

:08:46. > :08:48.There are 2 million British people who live in other parts of Europe,

:08:49. > :08:52.they worked there and contribute there and they want to stay there

:08:53. > :08:55.just as much as the European nationalists who made their homes

:08:56. > :09:04.here want to stay here I think they should. APPLAUSE

:09:05. > :09:09.Owen Smith. I just want to say have you seen what Theresa May has done

:09:10. > :09:18.with refugees in respect of this country. On the first day she took

:09:19. > :09:22.office she scrapped the post of Minister for refugees. On her second

:09:23. > :09:26.day in office she reintroduced child detentions of child refugees in this

:09:27. > :09:31.country. That is what the Tories will do and it should be a sanitary

:09:32. > :09:35.reminder to us that unless we are able to form a Labour government we

:09:36. > :09:40.have to sit by and watch this happening. We have to sit back and

:09:41. > :09:47.watch them fan the flames of hatred and division. That cannot be allowed

:09:48. > :09:57.to continue. We have to get to the prospect of a Labour government as

:09:58. > :10:02.soon as possible. APPLAUSE Do you want to summarise your

:10:03. > :10:06.response and then we will move on? The issues of refugees is a huge

:10:07. > :10:11.run, there are more displaced people than at any time in recorded history

:10:12. > :10:15.at any time on this planet and the idea you consulted by building

:10:16. > :10:19.barbed wire between Greece Macedonia and think the problem will go away

:10:20. > :10:24.and then be concerned when you see people dying in the sea, children

:10:25. > :10:29.dying in the sea, any more than the horror of the camps in Calais and

:10:30. > :10:33.Dunkirk which I visited. So let's have a humanitarian and human rights

:10:34. > :10:37.bonds which is about giving immediate help and response and

:10:38. > :10:42.thank Italy and Greece for what they have done and redouble our efforts

:10:43. > :10:45.to bring about a political settlement in Syria so those

:10:46. > :10:54.refugees can actually return home. APPLAUSE

:10:55. > :11:00.This question comes from Thomas Burke in Birmingham. Jeremy Corbyn I

:11:01. > :11:06.will ask you to begin on this one. What will you do to combat

:11:07. > :11:10.anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and all those whose rhetoric

:11:11. > :11:15.legitimises anti-Semitism? Anti-Semitism is totally wrong and

:11:16. > :11:20.unacceptable in any form or place in society. It has no place whatsoever

:11:21. > :11:24.in the Labour Party. APPLAUSE When I became leader there were

:11:25. > :11:30.allegations made and a number of people have then and have then

:11:31. > :11:34.suspended from party membership so investigations can take place into

:11:35. > :11:42.what they are alleged to have done or alleged to have said. I appointed

:11:43. > :11:47.the spokesperson of liberty to make an enquiry into this. She produced a

:11:48. > :11:50.report and it was put to the national executive and there are a

:11:51. > :11:54.number of rule changes that are put in there. She also said that in

:11:55. > :12:01.addition to sanctions against anyone who commits any racist act they

:12:02. > :12:04.should be an education and inclusion process within our party.

:12:05. > :12:15.Anti-Semitism is simply totally wrong and not acceptable. APPLAUSE

:12:16. > :12:20.Owen Smith. Anti-Semitism is one of the most pernicious forms of

:12:21. > :12:26.prejudice for all sorts of reasons that we fully understand. It has

:12:27. > :12:32.been absolutely appalling to see our party, the Labour Party, the Labour

:12:33. > :12:36.Party! With anti-Semitism in our ranks. It has been absolutely

:12:37. > :12:41.disgraceful. I am very clear about this. If I were the leader of the

:12:42. > :12:49.Labour Party I would have zero tolerance for it. Zero. Anyone found

:12:50. > :12:55.with anti-Semitism abuse would be out of our party and they would not

:12:56. > :12:58.be coming back. No short-term measures, no short-term suspensions,

:12:59. > :13:09.they would be out and never come back again. CHEERING

:13:10. > :13:16.Do you want to respond to that? Every case must be investigated.

:13:17. > :13:21.Yes. Every case must be investigated as indeed should any form of racism

:13:22. > :13:25.whatsoever within our party or within our society. That is exactly

:13:26. > :13:30.what we are doing and that is what the party position is and that is

:13:31. > :13:34.exactly what I hope the rule book will reflect to ensure there is a

:13:35. > :13:39.Jude process of incontrovertible investigation of every case and I

:13:40. > :13:42.agree with Erin, where a case is proved against somebody, then of

:13:43. > :13:53.course they do not have a place within the party. -- with Owen. I am

:13:54. > :13:57.very clear about this. Of course all cases have to be investigated, but

:13:58. > :14:01.we have been too slow. We have been too slow to look into this and we

:14:02. > :14:06.have been too slow to acknowledge we have a problem in the movement. It

:14:07. > :14:10.is in the Labour Party we have a problem with anti-Semitism and this

:14:11. > :14:14.should make us all ashamed. Everybody in this room should be

:14:15. > :14:19.ashamed that in the Labour Party we are talking about dealing with

:14:20. > :14:23.anti-Semitism. I ask you this, Jeremy, how has this happened? How

:14:24. > :14:32.has this happened over the last nine months? BOOING

:14:33. > :14:35.Many people in the movement are worried about their communities, but

:14:36. > :14:40.I do not think we have done enough to stamp it out, I don't think we

:14:41. > :14:42.have been strong enough and collectively I do not think our

:14:43. > :14:52.leadership has been strong and after. APPLAUSE

:14:53. > :14:58.I have made my position on this absolutely clear, that is why I want

:14:59. > :15:01.an enquiry done into it. Many of the cases we investigated actually

:15:02. > :15:08.predate my leadership by quite a long way. APPLAUSE

:15:09. > :15:13.I want action to be taken on it, I want our party to be a welcoming

:15:14. > :15:16.place for everybody what ever their faith, their ethnic group, whatever

:15:17. > :15:22.their community, that is surely what the strength of our party is about.

:15:23. > :15:27.19 people have been suspended from membership and investigations are

:15:28. > :15:32.ongoing, rule changes are coming forward to ensure there is a proper

:15:33. > :15:36.independently monitored form of investigation that goes on within

:15:37. > :15:42.the party. You and I at salute you agree that racism has no place

:15:43. > :15:49.whatsoever in our society or in our party. -- absolutely agree. How

:15:50. > :15:55.would you respond to the criticism that it is political point scoring

:15:56. > :16:00.as opposed to anything out? I have been in the Labour Party for 30

:16:01. > :16:03.years, I knew remembering the last nine months a discussion about

:16:04. > :16:16.anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. BOOING

:16:17. > :16:22.That is the truth! APPLAUSE I do not blame you Jeremy only.

:16:23. > :16:32.Excuse me, can we have quiet please. This room is a indicator of this at

:16:33. > :16:38.the moment, this room is not behaving in a comradely manner.

:16:39. > :16:41.People feel intimidated and that there is an abusive dialogue between

:16:42. > :16:46.different wings of the party, we have to heal the Labour Party, we

:16:47. > :16:51.have to unite the Labour Party otherwise we will never win, we will

:16:52. > :16:54.be split and we will lose. The Tories and those people who are

:16:55. > :17:00.racist in this country will benefit. APPLAUSE

:17:01. > :17:06.BOOING We will leave that there. This may

:17:07. > :17:12.well be the final question of this evening. This comes from Helen Evans

:17:13. > :17:16.in Oxford, what are your plans for ensuring the UK's third female Prime

:17:17. > :17:24.Minister is labour and not conservative? Owen Smith. I'm

:17:25. > :17:28.incredibly proud of the fact that the Labour Party has a far better

:17:29. > :17:35.record on promoting women within our ranks than any other party. 40% of

:17:36. > :17:40.our MPs are women right now, it is 20% in the Tory party. They may have

:17:41. > :17:46.a first lady, but they always put women last and that is the truth.

:17:47. > :17:51.Here in Wales, we are ahead of the curve. Here in Wales we have

:17:52. > :17:56.committed to having 50% of our councillors as women, I want to go

:17:57. > :18:03.further, I think 50% of our MPs should be women. APPLAUSE

:18:04. > :18:09.50% of the Shadow Cabinet should be women, at least 50% and we should

:18:10. > :18:14.have at least 50% of the top job in the Cabinet, the big offices of

:18:15. > :18:18.state, they should be women as well. There are more than enough women in

:18:19. > :18:24.the Labour Party to fill those roles to look like the country. Jeremy

:18:25. > :18:30.Corbyn, what are your plans to ensure the third Prime Minister that

:18:31. > :18:37.is a woman is a Labour Party Prime Minister? Promoting all women short

:18:38. > :18:40.lists is to make sure we get the parity of representation in

:18:41. > :18:45.parliament as well as at council level and also driving down the

:18:46. > :18:47.gender pay gap and discrimination against women in our society as a

:18:48. > :18:53.way APPLAUSE Of promoting women. I would also say

:18:54. > :19:01.that when I was elected leader, the first time I was appointed to the

:19:02. > :19:05.Shadow Cabinet -- I was appointing the Shadow Cabinet, 50% of those

:19:06. > :19:11.were women and it will remain so. There have been concerns raised

:19:12. > :19:17.about misogyny in the Labour Party, does it concern you? It does concern

:19:18. > :19:22.me if there is an suddenly of any level in society and obviously in

:19:23. > :19:26.our party. That is one of a number of issues we will address about the

:19:27. > :19:30.conduct of the Labour Party, the organisation and its meetings and

:19:31. > :19:34.the way in which we organise ourselves which sometimes makes it

:19:35. > :19:39.very difficult for women to be as involved as they would want to be

:19:40. > :19:41.and should be within the party, our campaign methods, presentational

:19:42. > :19:45.methods and a large number of other things. We need to strengthen the

:19:46. > :19:51.role of women in the party at every level and that I am determined to

:19:52. > :19:56.do. APPLAUSE I agree with all of that, we are in

:19:57. > :20:05.labour have been standard-bearers for feminism and women for a long

:20:06. > :20:10.time and we stand out in society. There are just five of the top FTSE

:20:11. > :20:15.100 companies that has a woman as Chief Executive, there is a 20% pay

:20:16. > :20:19.gap between the money owned by women and the money earned by men. I look

:20:20. > :20:24.at my children, two boys and a girl and I think how on earth is it

:20:25. > :20:32.morally justifiable, is it economic to sustainable for my daughter to

:20:33. > :20:38.have the prospects that they could be earning less than a fifth and all

:20:39. > :20:42.of my sons? We have to change that, we have to show we are better than

:20:43. > :20:46.the rest and we have to show that we are better than the rest. I am proud

:20:47. > :20:51.that in Wales where we have had difficulties with all women short

:20:52. > :20:56.lists, I was at the heart of some of those and we have turned it around.

:20:57. > :21:01.The assembly, the Labour group at the assembly is a beacon of hope for

:21:02. > :21:09.women. I did ask Jeremy Corbyn about... APPLAUSE

:21:10. > :21:14.About concerns about misogyny, there have been some concerns about your

:21:15. > :21:18.use of language in recent weeks, how can you convince us that you are in

:21:19. > :21:24.favour of promoting women when that sort of language is used? If I am

:21:25. > :21:28.the leader of this party then I am pledging to this party that I would

:21:29. > :21:33.promote women and I would use all women short lists and we had 50% of

:21:34. > :21:37.the Parliamentary Labour Party. I would guarantee that at least half

:21:38. > :21:42.of my Shadow Cabinet and the top jobs in my Shadow Cabinet, at least

:21:43. > :21:47.half would be women and I would fight daily for women as I have

:21:48. > :21:54.done. 80% of the cuts under austerity, in particular the tax

:21:55. > :22:04.credit cuts, that we overturned on women, most of the cuts to disabled

:22:05. > :22:14.women have fallen on women. I would fight it day in day out if I would

:22:15. > :22:18.the leader of this party. Oh in's figure is correct that 80% of the

:22:19. > :22:22.cuts fall disproportionately on women and after the first Tory

:22:23. > :22:27.budget we did an analysis of the effects of the budget on women and

:22:28. > :22:32.it is devastating. It is terrible what has happened. That is practical

:22:33. > :22:36.work in opposition to show that. We also have to drive down the gender

:22:37. > :22:42.pay gap, but also end the idea that certain jobs and professions are

:22:43. > :22:46.reserved for what gender and not for the other. -- one gender. I

:22:47. > :22:51.organised a very interesting event in parliament in the summer which

:22:52. > :22:55.was of women engineers, we invited them to Parliament. I talked to some

:22:56. > :23:00.of the older women who had studied engineering 20 or 30 years ago and

:23:01. > :23:04.they said how lonely it was at college and university when they

:23:05. > :23:08.said they wanted to be an engineer. They said I want to be an engineer,

:23:09. > :23:15.my mother taught me all of this, she loved science. You have to start at

:23:16. > :23:23.the beginning in schools. You have to make sure nothing is barred to

:23:24. > :23:27.the girls. Deal with the issue of gender pay and inequality and deal

:23:28. > :23:32.with the issues of glass ceilings and dissemination that go with it.

:23:33. > :23:36.It is not just about women in the boardroom, women in the parliament

:23:37. > :23:40.all women councillors, it is also about day-to-day life, the way women

:23:41. > :23:44.lose out on career opportunities because they have taken a year or

:23:45. > :23:49.two off to have children in their 30s and suddenly find all the career

:23:50. > :23:53.opportunities they thought were there have suddenly disappeared. We

:23:54. > :23:58.need tough legislation to prevent that happening and in companies we

:23:59. > :24:03.need to end the social network of early evening discussion groups

:24:04. > :24:07.where aspirin candidates in different positions in companies

:24:08. > :24:10.come together. Who are not better, younger women who are looking after

:24:11. > :24:19.their children, the men should also be at home looking after their

:24:20. > :24:24.children. APPLAUSE Again Jeremy and I are at one on

:24:25. > :24:31.this. We have to end maternity discrimination and end the gender

:24:32. > :24:36.pay gap. Barbara Castle put through the original equal pay act. A great

:24:37. > :24:42.beacon for women in this country, but we need another equal pay act.

:24:43. > :24:47.We need to use legislation in parliament in order to narrow that

:24:48. > :24:51.gap. We need to change the laws of this country in order to outlaw

:24:52. > :24:55.discrimination against women and to do that we have to be in government!

:24:56. > :25:03.CHEERING APPLAUSE

:25:04. > :25:07.I am not happy with as being out of government. We have to win, Jeremy,

:25:08. > :25:15.we cannot just talk about it, we have to change it! Owen, I thought

:25:16. > :25:20.we were moving into an area of agreement there. I'm sure you will

:25:21. > :25:23.agree with this. To you in greed the most instructive Shadow Cabinet

:25:24. > :25:27.meeting we had was when we went to Dagenham and we had the women

:25:28. > :25:32.strikers from Ford's in Dagenham who had themselves one equal pay. It was

:25:33. > :25:37.an object lesson to all of us and it was a great meeting. I am sure you

:25:38. > :25:48.will agree with me. I agree with you, great women. Time for one more,

:25:49. > :25:52.keep this as brief as possible. This comes from Caffe Hopkins in Cardiff.

:25:53. > :25:58.How does the Labour Party re-engage voters in Wales? Three engaging

:25:59. > :26:04.voters by investment in public services, by investment in housing,

:26:05. > :26:06.health, but above all investment in job opportunities. Recognising the

:26:07. > :26:11.good work done by the government of Wales in dealing with issues of

:26:12. > :26:15.homelessness in dealing with issues of ending the internal market within

:26:16. > :26:20.the NHS, helping children through school with breakfast clubs, many

:26:21. > :26:23.other practical ways of support. Not punishing the people of Wales and

:26:24. > :26:28.underfunding the government of Wales which is what this government is

:26:29. > :26:32.doing. Also ensuring that being the structural investment from the EU

:26:33. > :26:37.that is lost is replaced by the UK Government so we do get the South

:26:38. > :26:49.East wales metro. I would like to see the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth

:26:50. > :26:54.rail link reopened. APPLAUSE Let's hear it for Carmarthen! I

:26:55. > :26:57.would like to have a Labour government in Westminster to work

:26:58. > :27:02.with our brilliant Labour government in Wales! If we had that we could

:27:03. > :27:07.say as I want to say let's give Welsh workers the biggest boost in

:27:08. > :27:11.their wages that we have seen in a generation. Let's have a proper

:27:12. > :27:22.living wage, eight and 25 an hour, tomorrow, by having a Labour

:27:23. > :27:27.government. -- ?8 25 an hour. Every year our budget has been cut and

:27:28. > :27:32.they have forced us to make cuts within our public services. The

:27:33. > :27:39.secret to doing all of that is a Labour government in Westminster. --

:27:40. > :27:53.two I'm doing all of that. That is how we help Wales! CHEERING

:27:54. > :27:58.I will ask you on both this. What is proper funding in Wales? It would be

:27:59. > :28:02.sufficient to maintain the services needed in Wales, recognition of the

:28:03. > :28:06.levels of poverty in many of the valley towns and recognise the

:28:07. > :28:09.effects of 30 years of deindustrialisation ever since the

:28:10. > :28:14.end of the mining industry after the miners strike in Wales. It is also

:28:15. > :28:19.about investment in keeping industries such as the preparedness

:28:20. > :28:23.of government to intervene to make sure that Port Talbot stays open, to

:28:24. > :28:29.make sure we have a steel industry in Wales and the preparedness to

:28:30. > :28:33.take a public stake in it. It has to be fair funding across the whole of

:28:34. > :28:37.the UK and the transport infrastructure in Wales is a massive

:28:38. > :28:41.one, I complement the Welsh government on what it has tried to

:28:42. > :28:45.do, but quite honestly it is ridiculous that it is very difficult

:28:46. > :28:50.to travel other than by car from north to south Wales because of the

:28:51. > :28:52.inadequacy of the roads and the inadequacy of the rail system that

:28:53. > :28:59.simply does not connect one part of the country to the other.

:29:00. > :29:07.What is proper funding, can you give us something? I'd interest an extra

:29:08. > :29:13.?10 billion in infrastructure in Wales over Parliament. We would get

:29:14. > :29:17.our fair share of that ?200 billion new deal. I'd invest an extra ?1

:29:18. > :29:22.billion a year in Wales in resource funding for Wales getting their fair

:29:23. > :29:29.share of the ?20 billion of extra taxes I've been lurking on the

:29:30. > :29:34.wealthiest in this country. -- I would be levering on the wealthiest

:29:35. > :29:39.in this country. It would allow the Welsh government to increase

:29:40. > :29:42.spending on the NHS by 4% in every year of the next parliament, it

:29:43. > :29:47.would allow Wales to surpass the European averages for spending on

:29:48. > :29:53.the NHS. Not fall below as we are doing now, but to do all of that

:29:54. > :29:57.we've got to be a Labour government. Carolyn Jones needs a Labour

:29:58. > :30:05.government at both ends of the M4. -- Carwyn Jones. That's how we end

:30:06. > :30:10.austerity, not by protesting, but by winning in Parliament. APPLAUSE

:30:11. > :30:15.Time has beaten us, we've run out of time for questions. Under the final

:30:16. > :30:20.bit of the evening, which is to give as your two minute closing pitchers.

:30:21. > :30:25.Why are you the man for the job? Starting with Owen Smith - minutes

:30:26. > :30:30.to explain today's audience. Thank you, Catherine. I think has been

:30:31. > :30:35.clear tonight. I see that our country is in crisis. It's a crisis

:30:36. > :30:40.that has been long in the making, and a crisis that was dramatically

:30:41. > :30:45.compounded by that terrible vote on June 23. We've seen wages collapse,

:30:46. > :30:50.we've seen job security collapse, we've seen the grossest levels of

:30:51. > :30:56.inequality in this country has seen in a century. Our NHS is crumbling,

:30:57. > :31:02.Labour's legacy across Britain is being wiped out in this crisis. At

:31:03. > :31:08.the same time, the Labour Party, when we are at our most needed in

:31:09. > :31:16.Britain, is in crisis ourselves. Divided, divided and in danger of

:31:17. > :31:21.being defeated. So, the answer, my friends, is a Labour government that

:31:22. > :31:26.is ready to govern once more. A powerful, strong opposition to the

:31:27. > :31:30.Tories. A radical, credible Labour government in waiting, ready to

:31:31. > :31:33.implement a massive investment programme, ready to be

:31:34. > :31:38.industrialised many parts of Britain, ready to give us the

:31:39. > :31:44.biggest boost to wages, a proper living wage, proper pensions for our

:31:45. > :31:48.hardest working people in public services and the private sector.

:31:49. > :31:54.What we need is nothing less than the most radical, practical,

:31:55. > :32:00.socialist programme for government that we've seen since 1945. I am

:32:01. > :32:03.clear about that, that's the scale of the challenge we face and that

:32:04. > :32:10.the scale of the challenge we must set ourselves. If you put your faith

:32:11. > :32:13.in me, if you elect me as leader of the Labour Party, then I will

:32:14. > :32:18.deliver that. I will fight for and deliver the most radical programme

:32:19. > :32:24.we've seen in this country since the great Labour government of 1945. I

:32:25. > :32:28.promise you I will deliver that, I will unite our party around it, and

:32:29. > :32:37.I will take us back to government. APPLAUSE

:32:38. > :33:03.Thank you. They'll be plenty of time for applause later. Can I now ask

:33:04. > :33:06.Jeremy Corbyn to sum up you have two minute. Thank you very much and

:33:07. > :33:10.thank you for being here at this hustings, you've been brilliant. We

:33:11. > :33:15.can win a general election, and we've been winning elections all

:33:16. > :33:19.this year. We won four Parliamentary by-elections, three with a big swing

:33:20. > :33:26.to Labour. We won four male role contests. We lost the general

:33:27. > :33:32.election in 2015. -- four male role elections. It was a sad day. We

:33:33. > :33:35.lost, I believe, because we were not offering a clear enough alternative

:33:36. > :33:39.to the British people. It's not good enough to go on the doorstep and

:33:40. > :33:43.say, we'll make less cuts than they will, we'll have austerity, but

:33:44. > :33:48.it'll be austerity light. We've got to offer something different. A year

:33:49. > :33:52.ago we were abstaining on the Welfare Reform Bill which cut ?12

:33:53. > :33:59.million from the welfare budget, we should have been opposing the bill.

:34:00. > :34:01.We've now become a party that has a clear economic alternative of

:34:02. > :34:06.something very different. So defeating the Tories on the personal

:34:07. > :34:10.independence payments, the force Academy session of schools in

:34:11. > :34:16.England, and other issues, has been something we've achieved when we've

:34:17. > :34:20.worked together. This is also brought in a lot of new members to

:34:21. > :34:25.the party. Membership has just doubled it gone from 200,000 to

:34:26. > :34:32.540,000, the biggest membership there has ever been. We're a party

:34:33. > :34:36.that is active at all levels our society and within our community.

:34:37. > :34:42.People are engaged in politics in a way they never wear before. In the

:34:43. > :34:46.last election only 47% of young people voted in that election. I

:34:47. > :34:51.regret that. They are paying the price. We are all paying the price

:34:52. > :34:54.of that. Mobilise and infuse people. We'll go a lot further and faster.

:34:55. > :34:58.The ten points I put forward this morning were about full employment

:34:59. > :35:05.and many other things. But we rebuilt to transform. No one,

:35:06. > :35:09.nowhere, is left behind. Let us have faith in ourselves, our community,

:35:10. > :35:18.our party, and our ability to deliver real social justice all

:35:19. > :35:26.across this country. APPLAUSE CHEERING

:35:27. > :35:51.Thank you all for your... CHEERING APPLAUSE

:35:52. > :35:58.Thank you all for your warm responses to both speeches to end

:35:59. > :36:02.this. Can I thank Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith for opening hustings here

:36:03. > :36:06.in Cardiff this evening. Thank you in the audience, and he went home,

:36:07. > :36:12.for sending your questions in. And for a great debate. Thank you very

:36:13. > :36:16.much. STUDIO: The conclusion of the first Labour leadership campaign

:36:17. > :36:22.hustings in which Owen Smith said the party was fractured and

:36:23. > :36:25.splintered. Jeremy Corbyn pointing out he had won by-elections and

:36:26. > :36:31.mayoral elections under his leadership. Tom Symons is in

:36:32. > :36:39.Cardiff. He was there. People getting up to leave. It was often

:36:40. > :36:43.quite sparky? It was quite sparky. It was fascinating. Two people

:36:44. > :36:46.firmly trying to hold onto their positions in this race. The first

:36:47. > :36:51.time they confronted each other at those podiums after confronting each

:36:52. > :36:54.other perhaps in the media more than anything else over the past few

:36:55. > :36:57.weeks. What struck me is how often they said they agreed with each

:36:58. > :37:01.other on policy, they really do agree with each other on many of the

:37:02. > :37:05.policies and they've both been talking policy this week. One

:37:06. > :37:09.example, both talking about an industrial strategy to pour money

:37:10. > :37:14.into the economy. There was a mantra from one side of the argument, Owen

:37:15. > :37:19.Smith. Time and time again he used phrases like this: the problem is

:37:20. > :37:24.we're not defeating the Tories, 14 points behind. 172 MPs can he said,

:37:25. > :37:28.Labour MPs, voted against you, Jeremy Corbyn. He said, we've got to

:37:29. > :37:31.get greens, Tories and Liberals to vote Labour. We've got to be in

:37:32. > :37:36.power is what he said time time again. Jeremy Corbyn stressed his

:37:37. > :37:42.victory since last general election, year. He said, for example, council

:37:43. > :37:46.seats had been won. The London mayoral elections had been won. He

:37:47. > :37:51.condemned the silly childish behaviours of some of his MPs in the

:37:52. > :37:57.Commons. He said he had built the party into a very strong force. It

:37:58. > :38:01.was really the core of this battle between a man who firmly believes he

:38:02. > :38:06.can win power as leader of the party, and a man who firmly believes

:38:07. > :38:11.he can't, and that takeover is the only way forward for the party. Owen

:38:12. > :38:15.Smith closed by saying the country is in crisis, but also the Labour

:38:16. > :38:21.Party was in crisis. He stressed his socialism. He said, we need to be

:38:22. > :38:24.radical. And he said, in power. Jeremy Corbyn said we could win a

:38:25. > :38:27.general election under the leadership of him. The reason we

:38:28. > :38:31.didn't win the last election is we weren't clear enough as an

:38:32. > :38:36.alternative. He gave the example of the Labour Party, he said, arguing

:38:37. > :38:39.for austerity light. This is number one of five hustings. It would be

:38:40. > :38:44.very interesting to see where it goes from this. There was a real

:38:45. > :38:48.battle as well over the rerunning of the EU referendum which Owen Smith

:38:49. > :38:55.saying if he was leader, if he became Prime Minister, he would

:38:56. > :39:00.rerun the EU referendum. I mean clearly Europe is a big point of

:39:01. > :39:04.conflict between these two men. Owen Smith has said that before. He has

:39:05. > :39:08.restated it today. It's a controversial view, legally quite

:39:09. > :39:13.difficult, it would go against the majority view as the referendum.

:39:14. > :39:18.Jeremy Corbyn has been on the ropes for his actions in the referendum

:39:19. > :39:24.campaign. Owen Smith trying to score points here today, trying to say he

:39:25. > :39:28.has never really been pro-EU. Jeremy Corbyn... Saint Jeremy Corbyn wanted

:39:29. > :39:31.to enact article 50 quickly, the article which effectively gets us

:39:32. > :39:37.into the endgame for leaving the European Union. That will be one for

:39:38. > :39:42.them to pour over later, when the spinning really starts around this

:39:43. > :39:43.debate. Another interesting every was the reaction Jeremy Corbyn got

:39:44. > :39:51.on the economy. He said Shadow Chancellor John

:39:52. > :39:55.McDonnell had been clear on the need to fight austerity. He said the

:39:56. > :39:58.policy didn't change until John McDonnell was appointed Shadow

:39:59. > :40:02.Chancellor. He made a point about the fact the government was backing

:40:03. > :40:05.a policy of spending money on rent, then paying people money to pay

:40:06. > :40:10.those rents through the benefit system. It got good response. He got

:40:11. > :40:13.a huge cheer when he said a very clear straightforward point, that he

:40:14. > :40:19.had voted against the renewal of Trident. Of course, quite a

:40:20. > :40:22.meaningful debate here about disarmament. The men talked about it

:40:23. > :40:28.without the cheering and shouting we'd heard through this debate. For

:40:29. > :40:32.some time. It is clear Jeremy Corbyn is the unilateralist. And Owen Smith

:40:33. > :40:36.is the multilateralist. I think they are never going to agree on that

:40:37. > :40:52.one. Tom Symons, thank you very much indeed.

:40:53. > :40:53.With us now is correspondent Richard sleeve.