0:00:21 > 0:00:29Hello and welcome to BBC News. We are going to bring you a special
0:00:29 > 0:00:34programme tonight, to bring you the very latest on the elections that
0:00:34 > 0:00:39have been going on in Italy. It is a general election and Italians are
0:00:39 > 0:00:45waiting to find out who will form their new government. Of course,
0:00:45 > 0:00:49Italy is famous for its coalitions and this time it is even more
0:00:49 > 0:00:53uncertain than ever, partly because of the populist groups like a Five
0:00:53 > 0:00:59Star Movement, who are predicted to do well today, and partly due to
0:00:59 > 0:01:03changes in the whole voting system. These are pictures of today, Matteo
0:01:03 > 0:01:11Renzi casting his vote. And, of course, the polls are about to
0:01:11 > 0:01:17close. The former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has re-emerged as
0:01:17 > 0:01:21a political force, even though he cannot stand and become Prime
0:01:21 > 0:01:27Minister as yet because of a fraud charge. He is frame much seen as a
0:01:27 > 0:01:34power. This is Matteo Renzi casting his vote today. It is expected there
0:01:34 > 0:01:40could again be a coalition. Let's get the very latest on the
0:01:40 > 0:01:48background to this whole election. Italians are electing members of
0:01:48 > 0:01:55both Houses of Parliament. 630 in the lower house of deputies and 315
0:01:55 > 0:02:00in the upper house, the Senate but at this time the system has been
0:02:00 > 0:02:04tweaked so that seeds of first past The Post, the candidate with most
0:02:04 > 0:02:09votes in the district wins. The other ones are chosen by
0:02:09 > 0:02:12proportional representation, based on the share of the vote nationally.
0:02:12 > 0:02:19This election sees some new faces and not so new battling it out for
0:02:19 > 0:02:24supremacy. The keeper is likely to be Silvio Berlusconi. Yes, here's
0:02:24 > 0:02:29back. -- a key player. If fraud conviction bars him from holding
0:02:29 > 0:02:34office at least until next year. He is teamed up with two parties on the
0:02:34 > 0:02:49hard right, including La Lega. The Five Star Movement could gain at the
0:02:49 > 0:02:52expense of Matteo Renzi's ruling Democratic Party who are trailing in
0:02:52 > 0:02:58the polls. Italian politics is all about coalitions. Which combination
0:02:58 > 0:03:03could come out on top? One possibility is a right-wing
0:03:03 > 0:03:12coalition with Fortson Italia and my league joined by the brothers of
0:03:12 > 0:03:21Italy. The other centre-left party Free And Equal have refuse the idea
0:03:21 > 0:03:26of a coalition for that there could be a German star grand coalition
0:03:26 > 0:03:30between centre-left and centre right foot of it is all very uncertain. --
0:03:30 > 0:03:41a German style coalition between centre-left and centre right. That
0:03:41 > 0:03:44was an explanation of the background to the election. Let's get the
0:03:44 > 0:03:52latest now. Katya has been following the build-up to today's vote. In
0:03:52 > 0:03:57polling stations across Italy today there was a sense of uncertainty.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01Voters told us they wanted change but were not sure which political
0:04:01 > 0:04:10party to trust. TRANSLATION:Italians are abused and
0:04:10 > 0:04:14frustrated. Logicians need to hear our boys today.I am so worried
0:04:14 > 0:04:23about Italy, I said a prayer before coming to vote. -- our voice today.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27The current government is preparing for a bruising at the polls.
0:04:27 > 0:04:33Italians say top concern is the insecure job market, concerned with
0:04:33 > 0:04:40the Euro and mass migration from Africa. Luigi Di Maio is the leader
0:04:40 > 0:04:45of the Five Star Movement, tipped tonight to become Italy's largest
0:04:45 > 0:04:49political party. I caught up with him in Naples before he cast his
0:04:49 > 0:04:53vote.Traditional politicians have been telling Italians everything is
0:04:53 > 0:05:00fine when it is not. I want to be amongst the people.The political
0:05:00 > 0:05:03system here favours coalitions. His controversial party could be left
0:05:03 > 0:05:10out in the cold. Meaning this a million face could be kingmaker
0:05:10 > 0:05:17instead. Naples and the South of Italy will swing today's vote.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21Silvio Berlusconi campaigned here this weekend on behalf of a
0:05:21 > 0:05:27right-wing coalition peppered with populists, like this rising star
0:05:27 > 0:05:34anti-immigration politician voting today in Milan. So, what does this
0:05:34 > 0:05:39rather chaotic political picture mean for Italy and Europe? After all
0:05:39 > 0:05:46this is the Eurozone's third largest economy. Confusion is went
0:05:46 > 0:05:54essentially Italian. Rascals is used to it, the financial markets seemed
0:05:54 > 0:05:58prepared for it. -- Brussels they believe a coalition government with
0:05:58 > 0:06:02watered-down populist policies on offer. How does that help Italians
0:06:02 > 0:06:08get to grips with the problems? There is a civilian protest party in
0:06:08 > 0:06:13Naples.These days, Italy's Leticia 's blame everything on immigration
0:06:13 > 0:06:17but that is a life of the youth unemployment and precarious
0:06:17 > 0:06:24contracts are our problem. That is why Italians feel badly.Votes now
0:06:24 > 0:06:30passed, all Italians can do is wait. Today's election will be followed by
0:06:30 > 0:06:36weeks of political horse trading. Change does not come fast in Italy.
0:06:36 > 0:06:40We are indeed getting details of the first projections from the Italian
0:06:40 > 0:06:45general election. Local media is predicting now be no overall
0:06:45 > 0:06:49majority in the new parliament. One report saying the Five Star Movement
0:06:49 > 0:06:59will be the largest single party. Let us get more now live from Rome.
0:06:59 > 0:07:05Welcome to Rome. Absolute deluge cheer. The polls have just closed
0:07:05 > 0:07:11but as the polls closed, the first exit polls came out. We had to treat
0:07:11 > 0:07:16them with caution. There is a significant margin of error. You
0:07:16 > 0:07:20outlined the main headlines. The Five Star Movement is coming out by
0:07:20 > 0:07:27far the largest single party. The exit poll also pointing to a hung
0:07:27 > 0:07:32parliament, no block or single party has managed to secure the necessary
0:07:32 > 0:07:39majority. What we would expect now is a process of discussions and
0:07:39 > 0:07:47talks for the forming of a coalition government. Let's talk to the
0:07:47 > 0:07:53director of the centre of formulations and an editor, Antonio.
0:07:53 > 0:07:58What does this mean in practice? In practice, it is not going to be
0:07:58 > 0:08:02really different from what we have been seeing in the last weeks with
0:08:02 > 0:08:09the previous polls. Actually, the big difference is, as you said, the
0:08:09 > 0:08:13Five Star Movement is going to be the first party but it is going to
0:08:13 > 0:08:18be over the 30% ratio, so it is quite interesting. The outcome,
0:08:18 > 0:08:21according to these numbers and if they will stay the same until
0:08:21 > 0:08:26tomorrow morning, the outcome is almost the same we don't have a
0:08:26 > 0:08:29majority, so you will start mediation. We will be having
0:08:29 > 0:08:40negotiations. The most interesting thing is that Forza Italia, and La
0:08:40 > 0:08:46Lega, they are on the same level, so we will see.We're looking at
0:08:46 > 0:08:49pictures of the Five Star Movement election event. This is a really
0:08:49 > 0:08:56significant achievement. They were a force that did not exist a few years
0:08:56 > 0:09:00ago.Absolutely right foot if this is confirmed it means that almost
0:09:00 > 0:09:05one out of three people in Italy voted for the Five Star Movement.
0:09:05 > 0:09:10Definitely. When we started the negotiations, because nobody has
0:09:10 > 0:09:15reached the 40% threshold that is required by this law in order to
0:09:15 > 0:09:20rule the country, I think the head of state will have to start with the
0:09:20 > 0:09:24Five Star Movement.No doubt about that. It would be very strange if a
0:09:24 > 0:09:31party with a far smaller share of the vote were allowed to start to
0:09:31 > 0:09:36try forming a government.We cannot ignore it. It is such a bold
0:09:36 > 0:09:41statement by the Italians. No doubt about that. As we said before, there
0:09:41 > 0:09:45is another indication, I think, which is particularly interesting.
0:09:45 > 0:09:59If this is confirmed, and if Matteo silvery ani -- Salvini is ahead, if
0:09:59 > 0:10:04it is confirmed this is the end of Silvio Boase Coney's leadership in
0:10:04 > 0:10:09the centre right and the North league will have a strong say in
0:10:09 > 0:10:14that coalition.-- Silvio Berlusconi. What difference do think
0:10:14 > 0:10:20the new electoral system will have made question papers looked at being
0:10:20 > 0:10:24something to keep the Five Star Movement down.We need to consider
0:10:24 > 0:10:28that these figures can change very much during the night. This
0:10:28 > 0:10:38electoral system is very difficult in this scheme. First the
0:10:38 > 0:10:46proportional vote and then the first past The Post votes. It is difficult
0:10:46 > 0:10:52now. It is up to the president of the Republic to decide how to start
0:10:52 > 0:10:56this negotiation. The first milestone we have to consider is
0:10:56 > 0:11:02that, on the 23rd of March, the Senate and the chamber will appoint
0:11:02 > 0:11:07President. We will see if we have a kind of majority balance between the
0:11:07 > 0:11:13groups and then we can understand how the negotiation will go.The
0:11:13 > 0:11:21left, the centre-left coalition, is really trailing 20% to 23%,
0:11:21 > 0:11:29according to the X8 poll.I am just looking at the Democratic Party now.
0:11:29 > 0:11:38-- the X8 poll. It is around 23%, not a huge score. I would also put
0:11:38 > 0:11:45in question the leadership of the current secretary. Altogether...
0:11:45 > 0:11:51Matteo Renzi, the former Prime Minister.The coalition together,
0:11:51 > 0:11:55they will have to start compromising and accepting conditions proposed by
0:11:55 > 0:12:05others.Do we have any idea what the main, or the most likely,
0:12:05 > 0:12:09possibilities for a coalition combination might be? At the moment
0:12:09 > 0:12:17you could just take your pick. Exactly. It is like that you can
0:12:17 > 0:12:22take any party. Trying to find if you can reach a majority. Actually,
0:12:22 > 0:12:28I think it is too soon to go like that. In the previous days there
0:12:28 > 0:12:34have been talks about negotiation between the Democratic Party and the
0:12:34 > 0:12:38Forza Italia. It appears to be on the model of the broad coalition,
0:12:38 > 0:12:44like in Germany, for example. Then we start to think about the Five
0:12:44 > 0:12:49Star Movement with the Northern League.That would be the populist
0:12:49 > 0:12:58apocalypse that some people were scared of.Populist, exactly will
0:12:58 > 0:13:04stopHow many days, weeks and months to rethink... It is hard to guess,
0:13:04 > 0:13:12isn't it? Will it be as long as Germany? Will we see the same thing
0:13:12 > 0:13:19in Italy?We have to wait at least until three o'clock in the morning,
0:13:19 > 0:13:24if not much longer, maybe six, seven o'clock, to have secured data that
0:13:24 > 0:13:30we can say something will stop in any case you can have any kind of
0:13:30 > 0:13:37scenario and we will see a period of speculation and negotiations. The
0:13:37 > 0:13:41most Eurosceptic scenario of course will be the Five Star Movement
0:13:41 > 0:13:45together with the North league. That would be the scariest one of those
0:13:45 > 0:13:51who believed in the European project. As we were mentioning
0:13:51 > 0:13:55before, there have been rumours of negotiations between the Democratic
0:13:55 > 0:14:02Party and Silvio Berlusconi's is a Italia. But we have to see the
0:14:02 > 0:14:10numbers.How much caution should we have? -- Forza Italia.A lot of
0:14:10 > 0:14:17caution. She was saying until three in the morning, maybe later, we do
0:14:17 > 0:14:24not know. We are not secure about what we are seeing. It is really
0:14:24 > 0:14:29difficult to make a call at this moment, especially if there is a gap
0:14:29 > 0:14:35between the weakest part and the strongest one. I want to come back
0:14:35 > 0:14:44to the other question. You ask how long it will take will stop at least
0:14:44 > 0:14:50a month before the parliament has selected its president and then we
0:14:50 > 0:14:54start the negotiation.The new MPs, the new government were they all
0:14:54 > 0:14:58have to sit down in the building behind us and in the Senate before
0:14:58 > 0:15:02the President can actually give a mandate to try to form a coalition
0:15:02 > 0:15:09to the chosen party?Exactly. It will be like that. You'll be April
0:15:09 > 0:15:15at least we will see within two months if we can have a government.
0:15:15 > 0:15:25-- it will be April.Two months.Can we guess? I don't really know. Let's
0:15:25 > 0:15:30see what happens.I am wondering about your thoughts about the
0:15:30 > 0:15:34campaign and how it has compare the previous election campaigns fought
0:15:34 > 0:15:41at the last general election was in 2013. Has this seemed more bitter
0:15:41 > 0:15:46because of the migrant crisis which has reared since the last election?
0:15:46 > 0:15:52It has. It has been a strange campaign in my opinion. We have seen
0:15:52 > 0:16:00so many different items on the agenda. Maybe sometimes, not really
0:16:00 > 0:16:06going into details, but I think this is the same for all electoral
0:16:06 > 0:16:12campaigns. This time I think the real difference was the fact that at
0:16:12 > 0:16:18least one political party with the news at the end of the campaign with
0:16:18 > 0:16:24the thing about presentation and the Five Star Movement and the list of
0:16:24 > 0:16:28ministers. This was seen from outside is something really new and
0:16:28 > 0:16:35interesting, maybe unusual according to this parliament but it was
0:16:35 > 0:16:40different. Interesting to see if it has an impact on the outcome of the
0:16:40 > 0:16:48vote.Stay with us. We will be speaking a lot more. We are here in
0:16:48 > 0:16:54Rome, the capital. There is a Northern powerhouse in Milan, of
0:16:54 > 0:17:00course. James Reynolds is there. How are things looking?People here are
0:17:00 > 0:17:07waiting to see whether or not the exit polls we confirmed, and really
0:17:07 > 0:17:11the league party, formerly known as the Northern League, whether or not
0:17:11 > 0:17:17it really has made as a national force, capable of having an
0:17:17 > 0:17:22influential say in the Government. The party founded here in 1991 was
0:17:22 > 0:17:29the secessionist party. It wanted to leave Italy. Now it wants to lead
0:17:29 > 0:17:36the country. It will wait to see whether or not its support holds up
0:17:36 > 0:17:44when the real results come in.How great, James, are the economic
0:17:44 > 0:17:51differences between North and South in Italy?In some ways, they are two
0:17:51 > 0:17:57different countries, bolted together by the geography of Italy. When you
0:17:57 > 0:18:01look around Milan, and you take the train six hours to the south and you
0:18:01 > 0:18:06look around the south, you realise there is a huge golf in the GDP in
0:18:06 > 0:18:10the standard of living. Bearing in mind that was the fuel for the
0:18:10 > 0:18:15Northern League when it was a regional secessionist party. It
0:18:15 > 0:18:20said, why should we have to subsidise the South? Now it wants to
0:18:20 > 0:18:26lead the South. It has brought in a new enemy, migrants, illegal
0:18:26 > 0:18:32migrants. I put that to the leader of the party week or so ago. He
0:18:32 > 0:18:38corrected me when I said migrants. He wants to be a national voice. The
0:18:38 > 0:18:42party has to reconcile the fact that for many years the rhetoric was
0:18:42 > 0:18:45aimed against the South making it difficult for Southerners to vote
0:18:45 > 0:18:51for a party which has had its loudest voice in the North will stop
0:18:51 > 0:18:54James, you have been travelling the country, as you mentioned was
0:18:54 > 0:18:58speaking to all sorts of keep layers.How has the election
0:18:58 > 0:19:06campaign fell to you?-- players. Angry and divisive. A lot of
0:19:06 > 0:19:13Italians when they look back on it will look back at one town to be
0:19:13 > 0:19:17symbolic of the election. In January there was a story about the murder
0:19:17 > 0:19:24of a young Italian woman. Italian authorities have been looking at a
0:19:24 > 0:19:30migrants as a possible suspect. Shortly after that and Italian far
0:19:30 > 0:19:37right sympathiser shot at six migrants in that town. It came to
0:19:37 > 0:19:43symbolise a very bitter and very divisive campaign.Thank you very
0:19:43 > 0:19:52much. James Reynolds reporting live from Milan. Back here in Rome, I am
0:19:52 > 0:19:59joined by someone from force Italia, the party of the centre-right in the
0:19:59 > 0:20:04coalition -- Forza Italia. Thank you for joining us. How disappointed are
0:20:04 > 0:20:08you with the exit poll results so far?I am waiting for the final
0:20:08 > 0:20:15results. It is more or less the intention of the voting but I'm
0:20:15 > 0:20:22waiting for the final results. I am happy because now my organisation is
0:20:22 > 0:20:34in last position.We are waiting for that. Just looking at the Forza
0:20:34 > 0:20:43Italia figures, 12.5% to 15% at the same as the coalition partners to
0:20:43 > 0:20:48the right of view. Is this the end of Silvio Berlusconi?Absolutely
0:20:48 > 0:20:57not. We will check at the end but the result is good for us. We also
0:20:57 > 0:21:04have the original campaign in Lombardi and in Lazio. It is
0:21:04 > 0:21:08important, the Forza Italia results in this region. It is important to
0:21:08 > 0:21:15understand what has happened tomorrow. At the moment, nobody is
0:21:15 > 0:21:19able to organise and to create a government.If you have your
0:21:19 > 0:21:25coalition partners on the same or greater share of your block vote,
0:21:25 > 0:21:31then your party, there will be a power struggle surely. Mateas
0:21:31 > 0:21:37Salvini surely wants to be in a position of being in charge.Pay
0:21:37 > 0:21:42attention. Jawing his campaign, he made it clear he didn't and doesn't
0:21:42 > 0:21:50want to go out to Europe and, about this argument, we have the same
0:21:50 > 0:22:00line. We need to have ten clear points in the programme. This is the
0:22:00 > 0:22:05rule. He seems to have softened his line on Europe a little. In the past
0:22:05 > 0:22:13he said the Euro was a crime against humanity. No, no. I know very well
0:22:13 > 0:22:21the value. If you check the last declaration of Mateas Salvini --
0:22:21 > 0:22:27Mateas Salvini, you know he will want to stay in Europe. He has said
0:22:27 > 0:22:35things like Mussolini obtained great things for Italy. Mussolini is one
0:22:35 > 0:22:42of my colleagues. I think Benito may have been the person he was talking
0:22:42 > 0:22:47about. I think the past is the past and the present is the present. We
0:22:47 > 0:22:53would like to discuss about jobs, about the young unemployment and
0:22:53 > 0:22:57about the real problem that we have, not about the past. The past is
0:22:57 > 0:23:03closed for us. If you consider the period of Mussolini, the period of
0:23:03 > 0:23:09the Communists, it is another era. Is it time for a big change in Forza
0:23:09 > 0:23:13Italia question that we have seen Silvio Berlusconi trying to reinvent
0:23:13 > 0:23:18himself, trying to win the Hearts of the Italians who see him as a safe
0:23:18 > 0:23:32pair of hands.Some words and ideas, that are not Italian but European
0:23:32 > 0:23:35and American newspapers. Not only say about other skinny before the
0:23:35 > 0:23:50election. We are happy that Silvio Boesky only is present. --
0:23:50 > 0:23:57Berlusconi. Also in the UK or in America, they declared that
0:23:57 > 0:24:04Berlusconi is the solution of this problem.I think it is right. Thank
0:24:04 > 0:24:10you very much. We shall see what happens. Let's move to the new force
0:24:10 > 0:24:16in Italian politics that we have been hearing so much about, the Five
0:24:16 > 0:24:20Star Movement, which has really done incredibly well, according to the
0:24:20 > 0:24:26exit polls over 30% of the vote. My colleague is at the Five Star
0:24:26 > 0:24:29Movement election event, just across town from where we are. Just tell us
0:24:29 > 0:24:37what the atmosphere is like.Well, the atmosphere here is both of
0:24:37 > 0:24:41celebration and great expectation. That is because everyone is waiting
0:24:41 > 0:24:46to see how accurate the exit polls really will be. If the margin
0:24:46 > 0:24:52between the centre-right coalition is really narrow, the president will
0:24:52 > 0:24:58have to choose the Five Star Movement to give them the mandate to
0:24:58 > 0:25:02form a government. This is an historic result. We are talking of
0:25:02 > 0:25:08the party that ten years ago did not exist. It started as a protest
0:25:08 > 0:25:12movement, a movement against political corruption, efficiencies
0:25:12 > 0:25:16of the Public Administration. Ten years later it is confirming itself
0:25:16 > 0:25:21as the first largest party in the Italian parliament. It is a great
0:25:21 > 0:25:29result, undoubtedly.Many people wonder what exactly does the Five
0:25:29 > 0:25:33Star Movement stand for? You have told us what they often say they are
0:25:33 > 0:25:38against the how they want to change things, but are they able to be
0:25:38 > 0:25:46defined by left, right or centre or none of the above?Well, that is the
0:25:46 > 0:25:51novelty of the Five Star Movement. When they presented themselves as a
0:25:51 > 0:25:57party, they said they were neither right nor left wing. That is
0:25:57 > 0:26:01something of the past. The Five Star Movement looks at the democracy.
0:26:01 > 0:26:07They think that the web and intranet is the new way to give a voice to
0:26:07 > 0:26:16all voters and they are looking at good things for Italy and the
0:26:16 > 0:26:20interests of the country. Their candidates are people who do not
0:26:20 > 0:26:24have political experience. They say, we are honest people and that should
0:26:24 > 0:26:29be enough as to lead the country. It is difficult to define what the Five
0:26:29 > 0:26:35Star Movement stands for. Many of their policies are agreed online.
0:26:35 > 0:26:39They just published their proposals and people can vote what they prefer
0:26:39 > 0:26:45to do and that is how they define their political agenda will stop
0:26:45 > 0:26:49even on issues like immigration or the European Union, the Five Star
0:26:49 > 0:26:53Movement listens to what people want. That is also part of the
0:26:53 > 0:26:57reason why they have been so successful. They really are
0:26:57 > 0:27:03listening to what voters want. For the good side and the bad things as
0:27:03 > 0:27:15well.Thank you very much for the moment. Let's bring in the BBC put
0:27:15 > 0:27:19back Europe editor, who is with me and has been following things
0:27:19 > 0:27:24closely. You have been in Naples. What do you do have from the figures
0:27:24 > 0:27:31we have at the moment of the scene? Two main ideas. What a slap in the
0:27:31 > 0:27:35face for the ruling centre-right. They say they have started to
0:27:35 > 0:27:39implement reforms and that the Italian economy after the double-dip
0:27:39 > 0:27:44recession is slowly getting on its feet again. Voters were not with
0:27:44 > 0:27:51them today. He were they with? The Five Star Movement. The young
0:27:51 > 0:27:55upstart party looks to be Italy's largest party. It is not big enough
0:27:55 > 0:28:01to govern on its own. There will be weeks now of horse trading ahead and
0:28:01 > 0:28:05the Five Star Movement may not make it into government. The fact that in
0:28:05 > 0:28:09the lower and upper house of parliament, the upper house of
0:28:09 > 0:28:14parliament is key. The age you can vote is from 25 upwards. The Five
0:28:14 > 0:28:19Star Movement has been seen as something for the young and ignorant
0:28:19 > 0:28:25he wants something exciting. If the over 25 voted today, it means they
0:28:25 > 0:28:30are onto something and it is a very big nose thumb to the traditional
0:28:30 > 0:28:34parties in Italy. The kind of upsets we have seen from Germany to Denmark
0:28:34 > 0:28:40to Sweden. There is a movement in politics and things are changing. In
0:28:40 > 0:28:45Italy things will not change fast enough.The Five Star Movement have
0:28:45 > 0:28:51said they would be a pillar of the next government. How will Europe be
0:28:51 > 0:28:55looking at this?It is interesting. From a European perspective, it is
0:28:55 > 0:29:00not long ago that European leaders pretty much forced out Silvio
0:29:00 > 0:29:04Berlusconi. This was at the height of the problems in Italy for W is
0:29:04 > 0:29:09seen as a laughing stock because he was surrounded by scandal and was
0:29:09 > 0:29:15convicted of tax fraud that means he cannot stand for Parliament. His
0:29:15 > 0:29:19party could be a kingmaker and surrounded by populist figures, the
0:29:19 > 0:29:24Five Star Movement on the one side and La Lega on the other. Europe
0:29:24 > 0:29:29looks to Sylvia both go only as an elder statesman and a calming
0:29:29 > 0:29:35figure. -- Silvio Berlusconi. It shows what a state of turmoil
0:29:35 > 0:29:41Italian politics is in. Turmoil tonight. I was in Milan before,
0:29:41 > 0:29:45Naples, and now in Rome for the many feel they are cynical. After all the
0:29:45 > 0:29:52horse trading, whether things really will change.You have been all over
0:29:52 > 0:29:58the country, as you have mentioned. How much has the ideology of the far
0:29:58 > 0:30:05right filtered into the mainstream in people's use, particularly with
0:30:05 > 0:30:07immigration?The anti-immigration rhetoric was a bandwagon that most
0:30:07 > 0:30:12parties jumped on in the election campaign. It was divisive and people
0:30:12 > 0:30:18had to think, what can we use to get extra votes? It was a cheap trick.
0:30:18 > 0:30:25For many Italians, not at all, it is something they are worried about.
0:30:25 > 0:30:27Many African migrants have come by vote to Italy. Most of them wanted
0:30:27 > 0:30:33to go north into the rest of Europe. They got stuck in Italy and even
0:30:33 > 0:30:37though the amount of non-Italians living in Italy is only around 10%,
0:30:37 > 0:30:42in voter polls they think it is three to four times more than that
0:30:42 > 0:30:47and they feel threatened by globalisation, unemployment and
0:30:47 > 0:30:52migration as well. I think you can see a European theme. The parties at
0:30:52 > 0:30:57the centre, like Berlusconi pulse like party are stealing rhetoric
0:30:57 > 0:31:02from the right because they know it is a vote winner, anti-immigration,
0:31:02 > 0:31:08also things like security is high as well.You mentioned the left. Where
0:31:08 > 0:31:13are they? The centre-left, we have Matteo Renzi, the former Prime
0:31:13 > 0:31:21Minister put in charge but they have taken a beating.
0:31:21 > 0:31:22Chris Jericho was supposed to
0:31:32 > 0:31:36with the centre-left, it is a European team, where is the centre
0:31:36 > 0:31:39left across Europe? Today they agreed to join a coalition with
0:31:39 > 0:31:43Angela Merkel in Germany but on the back of a performance that was its
0:31:43 > 0:31:49worst ever in modern German history. I think across Europe waters are
0:31:49 > 0:31:52punishing the centre-left for the economic crisis. There are
0:31:52 > 0:31:55traditional base of workers saw the centre-left
0:31:55 > 0:31:56traditional base of workers saw the centre-left propping up government
0:31:56 > 0:32:00decisions to bail out the banks before the people and that is
0:32:00 > 0:32:03something voters will not forgive them for and I think it's a mixture
0:32:03 > 0:32:08of reasons here in Italy but that will be in the next night.What can
0:32:08 > 0:32:12we expect now? Over the forthcoming hours we will get exit polls
0:32:12 > 0:32:16becoming slightly clearer and when is the definitive result of what is
0:32:16 > 0:32:21not very definitive at all in the election going to be with us?We can
0:32:21 > 0:32:26do an Italian gesture here, who knows? This is Italian politics. We
0:32:26 > 0:32:30don't know what kind of horse trading is going to go ahead. Silvio
0:32:30 > 0:32:32Berlusconi will try to push for his right-wing coalition and I take
0:32:32 > 0:32:36issue with it being cold centre right because it's some very far
0:32:36 > 0:32:41right elements in the. He's going to try to go for the mathematics of
0:32:41 > 0:32:45that one. Tonight we are in the lower house of parliament but in
0:32:45 > 0:32:49buildings all over Italy politicians will be huddled together as Italians
0:32:49 > 0:32:53will be in front of their TV screens, worrying and wondering
0:32:53 > 0:32:57about the mathematics. You will pull it off and who is going to lead the
0:32:57 > 0:33:02next time government? Right now we cannot predict but it will be hard
0:33:02 > 0:33:08for the new biggest party to make coalition friends in government. It
0:33:08 > 0:33:15will be interesting to watch.We talked about immigration being such
0:33:15 > 0:33:25a important thing, and unemployment. It's the same problem as brands,
0:33:25 > 0:33:29youth unemployment, Marine Le Pen did very well, youth unemployment is
0:33:29 > 0:33:35chronic in Italy particularly in the south, in parts of Sicily it's up to
0:33:35 > 0:33:4050%, Italy wide it can be 30%. This is unacceptable for young people and
0:33:40 > 0:33:43their parents to tolerate. So that is the kind of picture we are
0:33:43 > 0:33:53seeing.Thank you very much. Let's go back to Milan. James, talking to
0:33:53 > 0:33:59summon the people in Rome, I often got the same answer, complete and
0:33:59 > 0:34:02utter exhaustion with the politicians in charge. A lot of
0:34:02 > 0:34:05people telling me today they were not going to bother voting, how is
0:34:05 > 0:34:12the situation up there?Here the funny thing, people say that but
0:34:12 > 0:34:17then turn out in Italy is usually reasonably high. In other words
0:34:17 > 0:34:22people grumble but they grumble on the way by and large to the Polling
0:34:22 > 0:34:25Station. Older people tend to come out and vote more than younger
0:34:25 > 0:34:31people. Silvio Berlusconi knows that, he knows older people watch TV
0:34:31 > 0:34:36which is why a lot of his campaign was based on TV, hoping for a strong
0:34:36 > 0:34:40turnout amongst older voters to try to counteract as you have been
0:34:40 > 0:34:43discussing the potentially strong showing of the 5-star movement among
0:34:43 > 0:34:49young people. One point from the land which applies to Rome, you do
0:34:49 > 0:34:53not get a rosette in this election for being the biggest single party.
0:34:53 > 0:34:58That does not get you anywhere, you have got to find coalition partners.
0:34:58 > 0:35:04If Five Star Movement is the biggest single party it's an enjoyable
0:35:04 > 0:35:07evening for them, but they would have to find coalition partners to
0:35:07 > 0:35:20get into government.Thank you James for the moment. Still with me,, I am
0:35:20 > 0:35:27wondering how much patience you think Italians have while they wait
0:35:27 > 0:35:33for government, the talks could go on for so long.I think some people
0:35:33 > 0:35:38are saying also that there might be re-election, I do not think this is
0:35:38 > 0:35:47a likely scenario because that would be a revelation. Think about the 5
0:35:47 > 0:35:50Star movement arriving first, I don't think they are happy with the
0:35:50 > 0:35:56possibility of going for election. I think then the Leave they will have
0:35:56 > 0:36:04to wait until it is done. We will have to learn to be patient in this
0:36:04 > 0:36:09regard.Yes I think she's right, they have to have some extent of
0:36:09 > 0:36:18patients this time. It happened already in 2013 with the forming of
0:36:18 > 0:36:25the government, it's not really news for Italy, the thing is this time we
0:36:25 > 0:36:29don't really know if the first coalition is going to find other
0:36:29 > 0:36:35allies in the other coalition with the parliament. I think this will be
0:36:35 > 0:36:44the biggest? The role of the Five Star Movement to ally with other
0:36:44 > 0:36:51parties if other parties are going to ally with Five Star Movement.I
0:36:51 > 0:36:57think this is a delicate question because the Five Star Movement has a
0:36:57 > 0:37:00big chance to rule the country but at the same time the one they decide
0:37:00 > 0:37:09to go with will determine their fate I think. Because if the goal with
0:37:09 > 0:37:12Northern League, not necessarily the electorate will be happy with that.
0:37:12 > 0:37:18It would be very interesting how the Five Star Movement will move.
0:37:22 > 0:37:25We are joined by an author and entrepreneur, thank you for
0:37:25 > 0:37:30squeezing in under our tent, what are you making of it?I am not
0:37:30 > 0:37:33surprised at all to tell you the truth, everyone knew already in the
0:37:33 > 0:37:38palaces these would have been the numbers especially because they made
0:37:38 > 0:37:41this electoral law with the purpose to not let the Five Star Movement
0:37:41 > 0:37:46win too much so everybody knew it already. The real disgrace is the
0:37:46 > 0:37:52electoral law but to tell you the truth I am not worried. People
0:37:52 > 0:37:54should not be worried because actually in this Italy I think it's
0:37:54 > 0:37:59better to have a coalition government than any Five Star
0:37:59 > 0:38:05Movement full government or a populous government led by Matteo
0:38:05 > 0:38:17Salvini. I am hopeful. At the beginning they thought less, but now
0:38:17 > 0:38:23they think even four eventually, she is an amazing politician. She did
0:38:23 > 0:38:31everything we have now, the divorce, abortion, all this liberalist, we
0:38:31 > 0:38:35had to thank her that so maybe she could be a good one to rule the
0:38:35 > 0:38:43country.I totally agree, I think our marriage was to put Europe in
0:38:43 > 0:38:47the elections, we always complain that Europe is not in the discussion
0:38:47 > 0:38:56of the elections, she had a double merit, the first was also influence
0:38:56 > 0:38:59people to talk more about Europe, to be less shy about it, to be strong
0:38:59 > 0:39:06on that, like Emmanuel Macron. On the other hand you could see really
0:39:06 > 0:39:10the difference between those who have a European project in their
0:39:10 > 0:39:15minds and have a vision on that and those who are very, very sceptical
0:39:15 > 0:39:21about Europe. What has been said before is true, the language of the
0:39:21 > 0:39:25Northern League has soft and, even the language of Five Star Movement
0:39:25 > 0:39:29has softened towards Europe but let's face it, everybody wants to
0:39:29 > 0:39:36strong Italy, Europe, but how you go to Europe, the method you use, the
0:39:36 > 0:39:42instrument you use will make the difference. There you will see a
0:39:42 > 0:39:45huge difference between those who want a European finance minister,
0:39:45 > 0:39:52meaning the Democratic Party, and those who absolutely think OK, let's
0:39:52 > 0:40:04have a say in Europe but be very sceptical.I think it's true that
0:40:04 > 0:40:13more Europe is interesting, first of all because if it's going to score
0:40:13 > 0:40:18more than 3% it's going to take some seats away from the Democratic Party
0:40:18 > 0:40:21and this will be interesting in the formation of Parliament. On the
0:40:21 > 0:40:27other side it true, it puts on the agenda the European topic, even in
0:40:27 > 0:40:37the name which is quite, I'm not sure about what they can do about
0:40:37 > 0:40:47the formation of the government, this we will have to see again.
0:40:47 > 0:40:50Italy has defined a government cope with some financial obligations in
0:40:50 > 0:40:55Europe within this year, within 2018, within the European semester.
0:40:55 > 0:41:00So to some regards I think Europe will be a driver for the formation
0:41:00 > 0:41:06of a government but I am not really sure it's going to have an influence
0:41:06 > 0:41:11as with so before with Jean-Claude Juncker making decorations that are
0:41:11 > 0:41:17not appreciated in Italy.Stay with us, to remind those of you just
0:41:17 > 0:41:21joining us, we have got the exit polls which come out over an hour
0:41:21 > 0:41:26ago as the polls closed here in Italy, what it shows is that no
0:41:26 > 0:41:32majority for any party, the largest party now according to the exit
0:41:32 > 0:41:37polls is the Five Star Movement with possibly over 30% of the vote.
0:41:37 > 0:41:43That's a remarkable achievement from a party, it does not even call
0:41:43 > 0:41:47itself a party, it is a movement which came out of nowhere just a few
0:41:47 > 0:41:52years ago as an antiestablishment tide. Let's go to its election event
0:41:52 > 0:42:02and talk to my colleague across the city, how are they reacting?Well we
0:42:02 > 0:42:09are still waiting for the leader of the movement to arrive, Luigi Di
0:42:09 > 0:42:12Maio, but the atmosphere is here of celebration, they have been talking
0:42:12 > 0:42:19of anINAUDIBLE This party was not even a party, now
0:42:19 > 0:42:23it is Italy's largest political formation. To talk more about that I
0:42:23 > 0:42:34am joined by a journalist, what is the key of the success of the Five
0:42:34 > 0:42:39Star Movement?They give hope to the people that this country can change.
0:42:39 > 0:42:44They identify themselves with the leaders because the leaders are
0:42:44 > 0:42:50normal people like you and me. Luigi Di Maio was a student five years
0:42:50 > 0:43:01ago. Another was a normal person and everything. The normality is the key
0:43:01 > 0:43:09of their success. The fact that this country can become normal.How
0:43:09 > 0:43:17likely do you think it is now that the president will give Five Star
0:43:17 > 0:43:21Movement the mandate to form a government? They are still under a
0:43:21 > 0:43:25centre-right coalition but they are under the largest party in
0:43:25 > 0:43:29parliament.At the moment they are the first party in Italian
0:43:29 > 0:43:37parliament so it will be difficult but this electoral law gives power
0:43:37 > 0:43:40to the coalitions. So the centre-right coalition is now the
0:43:40 > 0:43:45first coalition in Italy. But there is a problem inside the centre-right
0:43:45 > 0:43:50coalition because there is a challenge between Silvio Berlusconi
0:43:50 > 0:44:02and Matteo Salvini tonight. It will be difficult to choose because
0:44:02 > 0:44:07otherwise if the Five Star Movement decides it can join other parties to
0:44:07 > 0:44:13have a government like the constitution says then the mandate
0:44:13 > 0:44:20could be given to form a new government but I think it would
0:44:20 > 0:44:30rather be centre-right.Thank you very much for joining us, we have to
0:44:30 > 0:44:36wait and see. I have been talking to some politicians from the Five Star
0:44:36 > 0:44:39Movement here and what they are telling me is that whoever the Prime
0:44:39 > 0:44:44Minister designated will be he will not be able to ignore the fact that
0:44:44 > 0:44:48the Five Star Movement tonight is Italy's largest party in parliament.
0:44:48 > 0:44:51Back to you. Fight back
0:44:57 > 0:44:59extraordinary, the Five Star Movement making such waves during
0:44:59 > 0:45:05the campaign and it will be interesting to see how its voice of
0:45:05 > 0:45:09opposition will translate into being a pillar of government as it says it
0:45:09 > 0:45:14will be in the next government, that is what it said since the exit poll
0:45:14 > 0:45:20came out. Let's show you a graphic, we have to be a little bit cautious
0:45:20 > 0:45:24with these figures because in previous elections I think the last
0:45:24 > 0:45:28election it was a 5% margin of error but what it does show is if you put
0:45:28 > 0:45:34these into three main blocks, the centre-right is out in front with up
0:45:34 > 0:45:42to 36%, the three parties combining in that. That's in the lead but
0:45:42 > 0:45:48still far short of the 40% needed to form a government by itself. The
0:45:48 > 0:45:56Five Star Movement, that remarkable result, 29.5 to 32.5% and this is
0:45:56 > 0:46:07the governing party's coalition, the centre-left coalition is trailing.
0:46:07 > 0:46:13All in all over 20 parties in this rather complicated election, we were
0:46:13 > 0:46:16talking earlier about the new election system, it's been
0:46:16 > 0:46:18completely untested which makes everything even more unpredictable
0:46:18 > 0:46:27because it's a hybrid first past the post and proportional representation
0:46:27 > 0:46:33system so Italy has been a difficult thing to predict. Final thoughts,
0:46:33 > 0:46:36you have found this, this has been interesting in all sorts of ways,
0:46:36 > 0:46:41this election.Absolutely interesting and scary of course but
0:46:41 > 0:46:45this is Italy. Either of you remember but our first Republic and
0:46:45 > 0:46:50the first governments were like this. We have a real proportional
0:46:50 > 0:46:54electoral law and we are changing governments all the time but
0:46:54 > 0:46:58actually it was tabled, Italy was tabled. I know outside Italy people
0:46:58 > 0:47:04don't quite understand that. I don't know, times are made like this. I
0:47:04 > 0:47:08also respect a lot people who voted for Five Star Movement, I did not
0:47:08 > 0:47:11because I don't think they are right for government but I respect them
0:47:11 > 0:47:18because it means actual politicians failed and especially Matteo Renzi,
0:47:18 > 0:47:21he is a big loser of these elections. We have to admit that
0:47:21 > 0:47:28because he called this kamikaze referendum and you know what I mean?
0:47:28 > 0:47:35I must get a final word?I think the picture is precisely this, we have
0:47:35 > 0:47:42to wait until late in the morning. I think tomorrow and let's see.We are
0:47:42 > 0:47:45out of time, thank you all three of you for being with us in these
0:47:45 > 0:47:51rather challenging weather conditions here in Rome. We were
0:47:51 > 0:47:54expecting the couple more exit polls which will become a bit clearer in
0:47:54 > 0:47:58the coming of hours and in the middle of the night we should get
0:47:58 > 0:47:59the definitive