:00:00. > :00:08.Or what he says, or what he did or did not negotiate in Brussels.
:00:09. > :00:11.And it's not about him. Or them.
:00:12. > :00:14.No, this is now all about you, and your country.
:00:15. > :00:34.The clock is counting down towards the country's
:00:35. > :00:43.There's 121 days, 10 hours and 30 minutes to go.
:00:44. > :00:46.On Thursday June 23rd anyone over 18 who's living here and is a British,
:00:47. > :00:51.Irish or Commonwealth citizen, will have a vote in a referendum
:00:52. > :00:54.on whether we should be in or out of the European Union -
:00:55. > :00:59.whether we should stay or go - remain or leave.
:01:00. > :01:02."Remain" or "Leave" are the words which will appear
:01:03. > :01:10.Tonight, the debate begins in the country,
:01:11. > :01:13.so in this special programme we will debate three key issues -
:01:14. > :01:16.immigration, jobs and sovereignty - with those who've already made
:01:17. > :01:20.up their mind, to help you if you've yet to make up yours.
:01:21. > :01:22.Arguing for out - Ukip leader Nigel Farage,
:01:23. > :01:25.city chief executive Helena Morrissey,
:01:26. > :01:28.and Tory Cabinet Minister Chris Grayling.
:01:29. > :01:31.Ranged against them - arguing that the UK should stay in -
:01:32. > :01:34.another Conservative Cabinet Minister, Anna Soubry,
:01:35. > :01:44.and former Labour Home Secretary, Alan Johnson.
:01:45. > :01:47.Our first - perhaps the most contentious subject - immigration.
:01:48. > :01:50.By being in the EU, any British citizen can get a job or settle
:01:51. > :01:54.in the other 27 countries in Europe and, of course,
:01:55. > :02:00.Lucy Manning looks at how freedom of movement has affected
:02:01. > :02:06.one British city - Leicester.
:02:07. > :02:09.It's been named Britain's most diverse road, and the flow
:02:10. > :02:13.of workers allowed to come to the UK has made its mark.
:02:14. > :02:16.EU immigration is one of the key issues, and it's something that has
:02:17. > :02:22.Narborough Road gives you a sense of how this is now a city
:02:23. > :02:25.where the majority of people were either born abroad
:02:26. > :02:29.or are from families who came from abroad.
:02:30. > :02:33.The shops here are run by people from across the world,
:02:34. > :02:37.but it's the Polish ones that have started springing up.
:02:38. > :02:40.Michael owns a shop on this road, one of the many Poles attracted
:02:41. > :02:45.So, what do you think you have contributed to Leicester?
:02:46. > :02:47.I opened a business, so maybe in the future
:02:48. > :02:54.Benefits, you get? No.
:02:55. > :02:57.Do you think Polish immigration is good for the UK?
:02:58. > :03:00.If they can find the work, and they work and not claim
:03:01. > :03:09.Where Leicester's immigration was from Southeast Asia
:03:10. > :03:14.and East Africa, now it's largely from Europe.
:03:15. > :03:17.The last census found the number of Poles here had increased by more
:03:18. > :03:20.than 1000%, and last year, more than 7000 EU workers
:03:21. > :03:27.Some of them are even part of top of the table Leicester City.
:03:28. > :03:30.A squad with an English core also has five players
:03:31. > :03:34.from the European Union, including Denmark, Germany and Poland.
:03:35. > :03:37.If it works well for the football team, does it work for the rest
:03:38. > :03:42.We need to get out of Europe, if you ask me.
:03:43. > :03:44.You want to go out of Europe? Yeah.
:03:45. > :03:47.Because then people can't just walk in.
:03:48. > :03:49.The door is not just freely open to anyone.
:03:50. > :03:51.Everybody should be able to come and work for a living,
:03:52. > :03:55.That's what we are about, really, the UK, welcoming everybody.
:03:56. > :03:59.It's definitely affecting the schools.
:04:00. > :04:01.People are saying it's because of immigration.
:04:02. > :04:04.So maybe it feels like there are too many people coming to Leicester
:04:05. > :04:07.That's the short and small of it, I think, yeah.
:04:08. > :04:10.At St Patrick's School, nearly 100 extra pupils has
:04:11. > :04:16.The number of families who have come from the EU has greatly increased
:04:17. > :04:54.If the borders were to close, it would have a huge impact
:04:55. > :04:59.We would struggle to fill the roles we currently have if we just had
:05:00. > :05:05.So, with the number of EU workers rising and rising,
:05:06. > :05:11.would it help or harm Britain to say it's now too much?
:05:12. > :05:13.Conservative Business Minister Anna Soubry wants the UK
:05:14. > :05:24.Nigel Farage is the leader of Ukip - no need to say what side he's on!
:05:25. > :05:36.I will ask you both do something in unusual, admit the problems with the
:05:37. > :05:40.arguments. There might be lots of good reasons for staying in the EU,
:05:41. > :05:40.but you can't actually control immigration
:05:41. > :05:47.but you can't actually control because effectively the borders are
:05:48. > :05:50.but you can't actually control countries. I don't think that is
:05:51. > :05:54.actually accurate. We still have border checks. I came back from
:05:55. > :05:59.Brussels just last Monday. Like everybody else, my passport was
:06:00. > :06:03.looked at. One of the joys about the membership of the European Union is
:06:04. > :06:07.that when it comes to things like the exchange of data and information
:06:08. > :06:12.to keep our country safer, because we are in the EU and have those
:06:13. > :06:16.arrangements, we are safer by being a member. I asked you to be honest.
:06:17. > :06:22.Anybody from the EU, who wants to come in here and get a job can. Yes.
:06:23. > :06:25.And it also means that anybody who lives here and is British can go
:06:26. > :06:33.over there. And 1.3 million people have done that. Nigel Farage, can
:06:34. > :06:39.you be honest, if you had controls, could you want, and you could have
:06:40. > :06:41.by leaving EU, they would come at a cost. All the other countries
:06:42. > :06:46.currently trading with EU and the single market have to have some form
:06:47. > :06:50.of free movement of people as well. No, you are talking about Norway and
:06:51. > :06:55.Switzerland who are closely integrated with the European market.
:06:56. > :06:57.All over the world countries and markets sell goods to the European
:06:58. > :07:02.Union without the need for free movement of people. The problem is
:07:03. > :07:07.simple, this is my British passport. We all have one of these. The first
:07:08. > :07:13.two words on it, European Union. That passport is now held by 500
:07:14. > :07:17.million people. We are not able to choose the numbers that come or the
:07:18. > :07:22.type of people who come. Immigration can be good, but we shouldn't have
:07:23. > :07:31.an open door to huge knob is of unskilled workers. America and all
:07:32. > :07:35.sorts of countries, that doesn't also have to have some sort of deal
:07:36. > :07:44.about having a free movement of people. I don't ... I want Britain
:07:45. > :07:50.to leave the European Union, stand on our own two feet and still trade.
:07:51. > :07:54.You can have had free trade deal without being part of a political
:07:55. > :07:58.union. You realise what this means, it means we will not trade as freely
:07:59. > :08:03.as we do now with a market of 500 million people. Our exports will be
:08:04. > :08:09.so much more difficult. What that means is that as a nation we will be
:08:10. > :08:16.poorer for it. We are the biggest market in the world. Cars, wine and
:08:17. > :08:21.cheese, we need us more than we need them. Just a spell this out for
:08:22. > :08:25.people, because they often hear this argument made, America trades with
:08:26. > :08:30.Europe, Canada trades with Europe, what would be different if we were
:08:31. > :08:35.to come out of the EU about our relationship that worries you? How
:08:36. > :08:40.long and what would it look like? It would take at least two years to
:08:41. > :08:43.come out and it would be chaos will stop the pound has already fallen
:08:44. > :08:49.today, and the credit rating with change. Suddenly there would be
:08:50. > :08:52.nobody coming to work here if we leave, anybody who believes that is
:08:53. > :08:58.being misled. People are worried about immigration. It's a price
:08:59. > :09:02.worth paying for them. Yes, the borders are more open, but it's a
:09:03. > :09:05.price worth paying. When we say it's a price worth paying, what we talk
:09:06. > :09:08.about is when we don't do it properly. It's the schoolteacher who
:09:09. > :09:16.doesn't have the resources or classes. In Hireme, immigration has
:09:17. > :09:20.been good for our country. -- inherently. We can't plan for
:09:21. > :09:25.schools or hospitals because of the open door we have no idea how me
:09:26. > :09:29.people will turn up. For all the people coming here, there are people
:09:30. > :09:33.who go there. Almost one and a quarter million Brits who live out
:09:34. > :09:37.there. Surely if you tear up that passport in the way you want to, you
:09:38. > :09:40.are effectively saying to the British or go to Spain and Germany
:09:41. > :09:45.and France, you probably won't be able to do that. Before we joined
:09:46. > :09:49.the European Union lots of British people were retiring to Spain and
:09:50. > :09:52.Germany and Brittany, where ever it may be. Nearly a million Brits are
:09:53. > :09:55.living in Spain and spending their money and without any Spanish
:09:56. > :09:58.economy would collapse. You are saying that we could close our doors
:09:59. > :10:04.but somehow they couldn't close theirs? We wouldn't close anything
:10:05. > :10:08.retrospectively. People who have moved around legally, on an ongoing
:10:09. > :10:13.basis, Brits would be welcomed in Spain and France because they spend
:10:14. > :10:15.money. Painfully short, but there will be lots of time to discuss over
:10:16. > :10:16.the coming months. Next, would we be richer or poorer
:10:17. > :10:19.in or out of this club Membership of the EU doesn't only
:10:20. > :10:23.allow all its citizens It also allows freedom
:10:24. > :10:26.of movement for goods, In other words, the ability
:10:27. > :10:30.to sell things, to trade, to do business freely
:10:31. > :10:32.across the EU's borders without having to pay
:10:33. > :10:35.tariffs or taxes or conform Allan Little has been to a European
:10:36. > :10:39.country that has chosen to stay out He visited from neighbouring Sweden,
:10:40. > :10:46.which is in the EU. The water is the border
:10:47. > :10:49.between Sweden and Norway - But you can drive straight across it
:10:50. > :10:56.without even noticing. When you cross this bridge,
:10:57. > :10:58.you are leaving the EU, but you don't have to
:10:59. > :11:01.show your passport here. In fact, there is no-one
:11:02. > :11:03.to show your passport to, Norway may not be in the EU,
:11:04. > :11:11.but it is part of the Schengen Area, which means that anyone from the EU
:11:12. > :11:17.can come and live and work here. 16% of Norway's population
:11:18. > :11:20.are migrants, and they are entitled to the same welfare
:11:21. > :11:26.benefits as Norwegians. Norwegians rejected EU membership
:11:27. > :11:32.in referendums in 1972 and 1994. We had a lot of scaremongering
:11:33. > :11:38.about losing jobs. They said we would lose 100,000 jobs
:11:39. > :11:44.by standing outside the EU, but every single day since has
:11:45. > :11:49.shown this was false. Nothing expresses Norway's
:11:50. > :11:53.independent character more eloquently than its
:11:54. > :11:56.relationship with the sea. Norwegians have sought
:11:57. > :11:58.to protect their fisheries But staying out of the EU means this
:11:59. > :12:08.salmon processing company has to pay a tariff to sell its
:12:09. > :12:14.products in EU countries. You have tariffs on smoked salmon,
:12:15. > :12:16.that's the only thing. It's owner thinks that's
:12:17. > :12:20.a price worth paying. I have been very constant
:12:21. > :12:23.in my belief that I think It's like saying, you know
:12:24. > :12:29.what you have, but you don't know But the world is
:12:30. > :12:34.changing around Norway. Despite its global reputation
:12:35. > :12:40.for quality and efficiency, Norway is facing growing
:12:41. > :12:44.competition from Poland. Similar fish products can be
:12:45. > :12:46.made there more cheaply, Here at Norway's Parliament,
:12:47. > :12:54.the political elites, unlike the people, have tended
:12:55. > :12:57.to favour EU membership. Most of the laws and directives
:12:58. > :13:01.and regulations issued by Brussels get ratified by this
:13:02. > :13:03.parliament anyway. Norway has to fall in line with EU
:13:04. > :13:06.law, even though it's not allowed Politicians here call that
:13:07. > :13:12.integration without representation. One foreign policy analyst
:13:13. > :13:16.told me that every chicken, pig and fish in Norway
:13:17. > :13:19.is a member of the EU, We are closely integrated
:13:20. > :13:25.into the market, but we have lost part of the sovereignty
:13:26. > :13:29.of deciding on the rules Would it be advantageous
:13:30. > :13:33.to Norway to be a member, I believe that, but I'm
:13:34. > :13:39.in a minority today. Norway may have stayed out,
:13:40. > :13:42.but the EU has exerted its gravitational pull here,
:13:43. > :13:45.and drawn this country into the orbit of European
:13:46. > :13:54.integration all the same. Jurgen Maier is the CEO of Siemens
:13:55. > :13:57.UK and thinks Brexit They employ 14,000 people in this
:13:58. > :14:05.country. Helena Morrissey, who runs the fund
:14:06. > :14:08.manager Newton Investment Management
:14:09. > :14:20.disagrees. The same challenge, to be open about
:14:21. > :14:22.the downsides. Doesn't Norway, and other examples illustrate the fact
:14:23. > :14:26.that you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want the full
:14:27. > :14:30.benefits of trading in Europe, with all those barriers down, you end up
:14:31. > :14:32.having to pay the price, either in money or by having an immigration
:14:33. > :14:47.policy you might not like. No, I think we can negotiate a good
:14:48. > :14:52.situation, we can access the single market if we decide to leave. Those
:14:53. > :14:57.two are not one and the same. How long did it take for the Canadians
:14:58. > :15:05.to develop a free trade deal? We will not be the same as Canada.
:15:06. > :15:09.Seven years, it was. We will have two years to start negotiating.
:15:10. > :15:14.Brexit will be the start of a process, not an event in itself. You
:15:15. > :15:33.manage vast sums in the city, why would you take a risk at a
:15:34. > :15:38.time the global economy is not very stable and say, we may get a better
:15:39. > :15:41.deal, we're not sure, it may take two years or it may take seven, why
:15:42. > :15:43.do that? We used to be called the sick man of Europe. Europe's
:15:44. > :15:45.economic malaise is self-inflicted. They do not have a good vibrant
:15:46. > :15:50.approach. I think as a global economy we would be better off
:15:51. > :15:54.seeking our place on the global stage. Juergen Maier, you have been
:15:55. > :15:59.part of the sick man of Europe, now you are an Austrian by birth, you
:16:00. > :16:04.run a German company, basically the European economy is a mess, why
:16:05. > :16:10.would we want to tie ourselves to a corpse? It is not true that it is a
:16:11. > :16:13.total mass. The whole of the global economy has been struggling
:16:14. > :16:21.somewhat. But we only tend to hear the bad news. The last two years,
:16:22. > :16:23.the European economy has started growing again. Spain last year grew
:16:24. > :16:28.faster than the British economy did. And just remember that 44% of our
:16:29. > :16:32.trade is done with the European economy. Why would we want to cut
:16:33. > :16:37.that off? That there are lots of successful economies which are not
:16:38. > :16:44.part of the EU, we just saw one, Norway. Why not be honest and say we
:16:45. > :16:48.would thrive perfectly well outside? Norway is Norway and Britain is
:16:49. > :16:54.quite different. I actually remember coming to the UK in 1974, when we
:16:55. > :16:59.were the sick man of Europe, and look at the progress this country
:17:00. > :17:07.has made in the last four decades as part of Europe. In your own case,
:17:08. > :17:11.the example of Siemens, 14,000 people employed, are you saying
:17:12. > :17:18.there is jobs would go if Britain left the EU? I have never said the
:17:19. > :17:23.jobs would all go. What I am saying is, how can we create many more
:17:24. > :17:30.jobs? We can create more jobs by being in Europe, have influence with
:17:31. > :17:33.Europe. Essentially, life would go one, we would trade? We would
:17:34. > :17:39.thrive. We have partnerships with the rest of the world. You have good
:17:40. > :17:45.presence in Norway, for example. Our success in Britain is not dependent
:17:46. > :17:49.on our membership of the EU. We are big manufacturer here in the UK at
:17:50. > :17:54.Siemens, and we would not be able to thrive outside of the EU. We would
:17:55. > :18:00.do OK. Does that mean when he decided to invest in a new factory
:18:01. > :18:06.making wind turbines or magnets for hospitals, you would say, not here,
:18:07. > :18:13.somewhere else? Let me give you a specific example. We at Siemens and
:18:14. > :18:17.other small engineering companies see a future in driverless cars. We
:18:18. > :18:22.can either get inside and help influence, create the best chance
:18:23. > :18:27.for British industry, all we can sit on the margins and we can hope that
:18:28. > :18:32.Brussels will look after us and that sounds pretty naive to me. And yet
:18:33. > :18:38.he makes things, he sells things, you move money around. Isn't the
:18:39. > :18:41.truth that people like you are against the EU is because Brussels
:18:42. > :18:47.came for the hedge fund is and the boys and girls in the City of London
:18:48. > :18:51.and you don't like it? We would still have to subscribe to
:18:52. > :18:55.regulation if we left the EU. It is a poor argument to say with friends
:18:56. > :19:00.like that, who needs enemies. I think we should be working on a
:19:01. > :19:04.positive future. I think Europe has a huge number of problems. It would
:19:05. > :19:09.be great if we saw fundamental reform. Youth unemployment is still
:19:10. > :19:13.huge in Spain, Italy and Greece. That is a tragedy and we are not
:19:14. > :19:34.seeing it addressed. I think Britain can go it global. We have to
:19:35. > :19:38.leave it there but one sentence? This is the point, there will be
:19:39. > :19:41.regulation if we are in or out, so why do it? Thank you, both of you.
:19:42. > :19:44.Perhaps the main reason the question of our relationship with Europe has
:19:45. > :19:47.been so controversial for so many years, is that it raises fundamental
:19:48. > :19:51.Do we have less sovereignty - less control over our own lives -
:19:52. > :19:54.by being in a big European club in which we can be outvoted?
:19:55. > :19:58.Or do we have more influence - more power to shape the world -
:19:59. > :20:00.because we are part of something much bigger than these islands?
:20:01. > :20:03.In a moment, Alan Johnson and Chris Grayling will debate
:20:04. > :20:05.the question of sovereignty but first, James Landale explains
:20:06. > :20:07.how power is divided between the UK government and parliament
:20:08. > :20:14.in Westminster and Brussels - the city where the EU is run from.
:20:15. > :20:15.We live in a parliamentary democracy.
:20:16. > :20:17.That means we get to choose the parliaments
:20:18. > :20:19.that make decisions on our behalf here at Westminster.
:20:20. > :20:22.But more than 40 years ago, Parliament decided to give up
:20:23. > :20:26.It chose to pool some power with other countries,
:20:27. > :20:29.in what was then called the European Community.
:20:30. > :20:32.And some say that was the right decision.
:20:33. > :20:36.There is a sacrifice of sovereignty, in that our Parliament can't
:20:37. > :20:40.overturn laws made say about the environment,
:20:41. > :20:44.once they are made at European level, but the original decision
:20:45. > :20:46.to go in, was to share some of our sovereignty,
:20:47. > :20:51.There are things that we can do collectively,
:20:52. > :20:58.So where does power lie in the European Union,
:20:59. > :21:03.and what say does Britain have?
:21:04. > :21:05.Well, much of the power that has been pulled together
:21:06. > :21:08.lies with the European Commission, the executive arm
:21:09. > :21:13.Every country, including Britain, has one commissioner around
:21:14. > :21:19.the table and their key power is the right to propose new EU laws.
:21:20. > :21:24.The European Commission cannot set Britain's tax rates, its health
:21:25. > :21:30.But it can propose things like common trading rules,
:21:31. > :21:36.farm subsidies and environmental policies.
:21:37. > :21:40.The Commission though does not get to decide those new laws.
:21:41. > :21:43.That is the job of the European Council, which represents
:21:44. > :21:46.the governments of the 28 member states.
:21:47. > :21:48.This is the body where British ministers, that we elect,
:21:49. > :21:53.can veto or vote against proposals they don't like.
:21:54. > :21:55.And let's not forget the only directly elected parts
:21:56. > :21:58.of the EU, the European Parliament.
:21:59. > :22:04.It has 751 members, known as MEPs, of which 73
:22:05. > :22:08.represent Britain, the third-largest national grouping.
:22:09. > :22:11.There is also the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg,
:22:12. > :22:15.the judges who make sure no one breaks EU law.
:22:16. > :22:20.But critics say all that means too much power has left Westminster.
:22:21. > :22:23.We have given away our right to self-government, so instead
:22:24. > :22:28.of the people you elect to Westminster being responsible,
:22:29. > :22:30.being allowed to do their best and you can get rid
:22:31. > :22:32.of them if they make a mess, you cannot
:22:33. > :22:35.change any of these things because they have been settled
:22:36. > :22:38.in Brussels by 28 countries, and there is no
:22:39. > :22:40.chance of getting 27 other countries to agree with us,
:22:41. > :22:46.So critics say there is a gap between the free market many thought
:22:47. > :22:49.they were joining and the centralising bureaucracy
:22:50. > :22:51.of Brussels that is deciding stuff
:22:52. > :22:55.that really should be a matter for our Parliament.
:22:56. > :23:01.And supporters say the EU is still greater than the sum of its parts.
:23:02. > :23:05.Ultimately, this referendum will be about power.
:23:06. > :23:07.Should it reside wholly at Westminster
:23:08. > :23:15.Chris Grayling is one of the six Cabinet ministers to go
:23:16. > :23:18.against his Prime Minister and campaign to leave the EU.
:23:19. > :23:20.Alan Johnson is a former Home Secretary
:23:21. > :23:28.in charge of Labour's efforts to stay.
:23:29. > :23:36.Alan Johnson, I will start with you, if I may, be honest, you do
:23:37. > :23:42.obviously lose control, you lose sovereignty if you join a great big
:23:43. > :23:47.club because you can be outvoted? Isn't it honest to admit that? You
:23:48. > :23:51.can. The argument John Redwood was making was being made by Scots last
:23:52. > :23:56.year saying if we leave the United Kingdom we could have control over
:23:57. > :24:00.our own affairs. Our argument was if you are part of something bigger you
:24:01. > :24:06.gain in Scotland and the whole of the UK would gain as well. I don't
:24:07. > :24:09.think I can think of an example whether it is the United Nations,
:24:10. > :24:14.Nato or the World Trade Organisation, where you don't lose
:24:15. > :24:20.some of your control, in order to cooperate with other countries to a
:24:21. > :24:28.meaningful effect? If a businessman in your constituency wanted to sell
:24:29. > :24:31.all of oil in six litre containers, some rule from Brussels would tell
:24:32. > :24:39.him he could not -- olive oil. People say, why should we tolerate
:24:40. > :24:46.that? That was the case I would look into that. It is a case. The
:24:47. > :24:49.competition rules say that for our big markets for our companies to
:24:50. > :24:54.sell into, bigger commercial markets than the US or China, there have to
:24:55. > :24:59.be rules that govern that, in our interests as well, for the olive oil
:25:00. > :25:05.maker in Hull, who I have not heard of yet but I am sure he is there. We
:25:06. > :25:11.have ceded to Brussels by treaty to our Parliament. He has said you give
:25:12. > :25:16.a bit, but you give something back. Chris Grayling, you said recently it
:25:17. > :25:21.would be disastrous to stay in the EU. Puzzled by this. We still
:25:22. > :25:26.control matters of war and peace, we still control the NHS, we still
:25:27. > :25:32.control our schools, we control taxes, the minimum wage, day by day
:25:33. > :25:35.the main business of government is controlled by Westminster and
:25:36. > :25:40.Whitehall. But there are plenty of issues where that is not the case.
:25:41. > :25:46.The EU has decided what vitamin tablets we are allowed to take.
:25:47. > :25:50.They're also the big issues. At the moment, our statisticians are saying
:25:51. > :25:55.our population will rise to 75 to 80 million. I don't believe we can
:25:56. > :25:59.cope. We have not got the schools, houses or hospitals. But we cannot
:26:00. > :26:04.set limits on the large numbers of people who want to come and live and
:26:05. > :26:09.work in the UK. If large numbers of people want to come from Eastern
:26:10. > :26:13.Europe, we cannot set limits. I asked you to talk about sovereignty,
:26:14. > :26:17.there is an enormous amount we control, we make a decision on
:26:18. > :26:23.immigration and as I two Nigel Farage, people go the other
:26:24. > :26:26.direction as well. We have just had two successful international visits
:26:27. > :26:31.from the Chinese president and the Indian Prime Minister. We are not
:26:32. > :26:34.able now to forge our own free trade agreements with India and China. We
:26:35. > :26:42.have to ask the EU's permission to get on with that. Why is that in our
:26:43. > :26:48.interest? We have to wait for the whole of Europe. The Prime Minister
:26:49. > :26:53.of India said Britain should remain in the EU. Our exports to India
:26:54. > :27:01.Pakistan have gone up by 93% since we were members. People in 1975
:27:02. > :27:06.agreed that actually we should have on competition law, it should be
:27:07. > :27:10.European wide, so that British companies don't suffer from
:27:11. > :27:14.uncompetitive practices. That is the point, Chris Grayling, at the
:27:15. > :27:18.moment, if a British company is discriminated against in Europe, you
:27:19. > :27:22.can take it to the European Court. Someone in your constituency can
:27:23. > :27:28.say, this is not fair, the rule for not being applied. If you leave,
:27:29. > :27:31.there's nothing you can do? For a long time we have been the good
:27:32. > :27:36.guys, often our businesses find it is not happening elsewhere. When
:27:37. > :27:41.they knock on your door you will have to say, search me, nothing I
:27:42. > :27:45.can do. Within which gives us a really strong hand in all of this,
:27:46. > :27:48.in what you are talking about now and in Brexit and what comes
:27:49. > :27:52.afterwards, they depend on us much more than we depend on them. They
:27:53. > :28:01.spend far less money with us than we do with them. 65 million people by
:28:02. > :28:07.more... It is all they end them. This is 27 countries on our own
:28:08. > :28:11.continent who we decided to work with originally to stop wars
:28:12. > :28:15.starting in Europe. The result of which was carnage for the 20th
:28:16. > :28:20.century. The idea that we should get together is have George or Rather
:28:21. > :28:24.than war war was Churchill. It was Nato to keep the peace. We do not
:28:25. > :28:30.have to be in the EU to keep the peace. Is this it? It is a decision
:28:31. > :28:36.one way or the other. I hope people will decide to leave because that is
:28:37. > :28:38.what makes us an independent country once again. Thank you.
:28:39. > :28:41.I'm often told that it doesn't matter how you vote because "they"
:28:42. > :28:44.are all the same and "they" are all in it for themselves
:28:45. > :28:52.The choice will be a simple, plain, black and white one -
:28:53. > :28:59.Now, though, is not about their future.
:29:00. > :29:02.It is about you and yours and your country's.