:00:06. > :00:09.This man is helping save the British economy. Until three months
:00:09. > :00:16.ago he was one of millions of unemployed claiming incapacity
:00:16. > :00:24.benefits. The Government is trying to get these people back to work.
:00:24. > :00:30.There's not a week that goes by without me hitting something. Do
:00:30. > :00:40.you think anyone would consider It's failing thousands of people up
:00:40. > :00:51.
:00:51. > :00:53.and down the country. You're a Who were? The clients.
:00:53. > :00:56.There are two and a half million long-term sick and disabled
:00:56. > :01:05.unemployed people in the UK, currently costing taxpayers �13
:01:05. > :01:08.billion every year. More than a quarter of a million of them of
:01:08. > :01:15.them live in Scotland. The Government says it wants as many as
:01:15. > :01:18.possible who are able to work off Those who can work will look for
:01:18. > :01:23.work and join the Work Programme. Those with a disability must and
:01:23. > :01:33.can no longer be left behind. It is a vital pledge we must make to
:01:33. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:38.those who have those disabilities. Two years ago, BBC Scotland
:01:38. > :01:40.investigated the Government's plans to end this so-called "sick-note
:01:41. > :01:44.culture". We scrutinised the private assessment process, which
:01:44. > :01:47.was wrongly deciding many sick and disabled people were fit for work.
:01:47. > :01:50.18 months on from the launch of the Government's most ambitious welfare
:01:50. > :02:00.reforms yet, how successful has the pledge been to get disabled people
:02:00. > :02:00.
:02:00. > :02:03.who are able to work off benefits and into employment?
:02:03. > :02:09.This is Michael Docherty from East Kilbride. Michael has learning
:02:09. > :02:12.difficulties and a personality disorder. He has never managed to
:02:12. > :02:17.hold down a job for very long, and has previously required intensive
:02:17. > :02:24.support in the workplace. When it comes to myself, having a
:02:24. > :02:29.disability, it's a lot harder and I'm a bit slow. It takes a bit
:02:29. > :02:33.longer to do the task in a certain time. I'd probably need a worker
:02:33. > :02:35.from ten o'clock that morning till when I finish at six o'clock at
:02:35. > :02:38.night time so I'm not alone in case something happens.
:02:38. > :02:41.As much as he wants to work, he's had numerous opportunities in the
:02:41. > :02:48.past and even with quite very well- supported care packages in place,
:02:48. > :02:55.it hasn't been successful for him. Despite his difficulties, Michael
:02:55. > :02:59.has been declared fit for work. He is appealing against that decision
:02:59. > :03:02.but, if that fails, he will have no choice but to attempt to return to
:03:02. > :03:04.the workplace. He's not the only one who says the Government's
:03:04. > :03:13.assessment process is pushing them inappropriately towards the working
:03:13. > :03:18.A cemetery on the south side of Edinburgh is where Mark Gould finds
:03:18. > :03:28.his inspiration. His passion is photography. In 2008 he developed
:03:28. > :03:28.
:03:28. > :03:34.serious mental health problems and Depression for the record is not
:03:34. > :03:42.feeling a little bit down or sad or anything. It's feeling nothing.
:03:43. > :03:45.It's, you know, inside, inside there's You may as well be dead.
:03:45. > :03:47.Mark's been receiving incapacity benefits for the past four years
:03:47. > :03:57.and doesn't feel he's currently employable, struggling with anxiety
:03:57. > :03:58.
:03:58. > :04:01.and his temper. How bad is it?
:04:01. > :04:08.Right, there's not a week that goes by without me hitting something. Do
:04:08. > :04:18.you think anyone should be stuck with that as an employee? Do you
:04:18. > :04:18.
:04:18. > :04:24.think anyone in their right mind When I'm frustrated, I smash things
:04:24. > :04:29.Can this not be controlled? You've managed to control this in a very
:04:29. > :04:38.stressful environment of doing an interview. (BEEP) off. Can this be
:04:38. > :04:42.controlled? (BEEP) off. It can to some extent. And it, I knew today
:04:42. > :04:51.was going to be a bit like this, so I did a certain amount of
:04:51. > :04:54.preparation for being here. How do you prepare? How do you try and
:04:54. > :05:04.control it? How are you controlling it now? Through breathing
:05:04. > :05:11.
:05:11. > :05:18.techniques. But what's going I'm not going to say anything about
:05:18. > :05:23.Mark's girlfriend Lauren, who has her own struggles with mental
:05:23. > :05:28.health, also thinks Mark is currently unemployable. Both worry
:05:28. > :05:32.about becoming one of those put on the Government's new scheme.
:05:32. > :05:38.The threat of the Work Programme is having a really negative effect on
:05:38. > :05:44.both our lives. Neither of us are in any fit state to cope with the
:05:44. > :05:49.sort of things that involves. I think Mark would end up on assault
:05:49. > :05:54.charges very quickly. Mark's difficulties are very
:05:54. > :05:59.different from Michael's. But like Michael, he feels he's been wrongly
:05:59. > :06:02.assessed, and it's a case of can't work rather than won't work. The
:06:02. > :06:12.Department for Work and Pensions said it was unable to comment on
:06:12. > :06:33.
:06:33. > :06:38.individual cases but in a statement But what's happening to those
:06:38. > :06:40.disabled people who can work and want to work? 68,000 have been
:06:40. > :06:47.placed into the Work Programme, the Government's �5 billion answer to
:06:47. > :06:53.tackling unemployment. And here's how it's supposed to work. There
:06:53. > :06:56.are 18 main work providers. These are largely private companies. Each
:06:56. > :07:00.is contracted to deliver the Work Programme for all long-term
:07:00. > :07:05.unemployed, not just those with disabilities. It's based on
:07:05. > :07:10.financial reward. For every person placed with them, that main
:07:10. > :07:13.provider receives a referral payment of up to �400. For those on
:07:13. > :07:18.incapacity benefits, called "hard- to-place" clients, the figure is
:07:18. > :07:25.�600. If the main provider manages to get a client into employment for
:07:25. > :07:30.more than six months, it receives a second payment, which is �1,200.
:07:30. > :07:33.For a "hard-to-place" client it could be as much as �3,500. After
:07:33. > :07:41.two years, if a client is still in paid employment, the main provider
:07:41. > :07:48.gets a third payout, this time of up to �5,000. For a "hard-to-place"
:07:48. > :07:51.client, it's �9,600. It's called payment by results. The
:07:51. > :07:54.hope of the incentive means providers would work harder to
:07:54. > :08:04.reduce unemployment and put equal effort into those in the hard-to-
:08:04. > :08:05.
:08:05. > :08:08.place category. And for some, it's This is Andrew Collins. After seven
:08:08. > :08:18.years of unemployment because of depression, in August 2011, he was
:08:18. > :08:21.put on the Work Programme. He was sent on confidence-building courses,
:08:21. > :08:23.showed where to look for work, and he was given a new, smarter
:08:23. > :08:26.appearance. These sound very small things to
:08:26. > :08:34.some people, new shoes, haircut, shave, but that was a big deal for
:08:34. > :08:37.you? In some ways, yes. Much as it's small in material things, it's
:08:37. > :08:41.a very good symbol of the sort of support that they were willing to
:08:41. > :08:51.offer and how they'd go out of their way and do stuff to make sure
:08:51. > :08:56.And you got the job. Yeah. Andrew now works part-time in a
:08:56. > :09:03.care home. He's an example of what the Work Programme was designed to
:09:03. > :09:05.achieve. Yet figures revealed in November, just 13 months into the
:09:05. > :09:12.initiative, are suggestive of Andrew being the exception rather
:09:12. > :09:15.New figures have been released showing that the Government
:09:15. > :09:18.flagship Work Programme has failed to meet a key target.
:09:18. > :09:23.Not one of the private companies delivering the Work Programme met
:09:23. > :09:26.their targets for getting any of the groups into work. Out of 68,000
:09:26. > :09:36.referrals of people from the hard- to-place group, providers only
:09:36. > :09:40.
:09:40. > :09:45.found jobs lasting three months or Tony Wilson has had a history of
:09:45. > :09:51.mental illness. At 34, he's been unemployed and receiving disability
:09:51. > :09:58.benefits for almost nine years. I have been diagnosed with
:09:58. > :10:05.depression, anxiety disorder and borderline personality disorder.
:10:05. > :10:10.When I'm anxious, I can't go out. And if I have to go out, I have to
:10:10. > :10:12.be medicated. Tony was placed with Triage, a
:10:12. > :10:19.large Scottish company which provides support and training for
:10:19. > :10:23.the unemployed. Its website states it has one of the highest
:10:23. > :10:30.employment success rates in the country. Tony lives in
:10:30. > :10:33.Middlesbrough, where Triage also delivers the Work Programme. Yet
:10:33. > :10:37.his experience once placed on the programme hasn't matched up to what
:10:37. > :10:41.Triage promises. He's only seen his adviser sporadically. Some of the
:10:41. > :10:50.courses he was told he'd be sent on have failed to materialise. Triage
:10:50. > :10:53.says he has missed appointments, which Tony disputes.
:10:53. > :10:56.What have they done to get you job- ready? Nothing. Not at all?
:10:56. > :11:00.Absolutely nothing. This isn't because you're rejecting it and
:11:00. > :11:03.saying no, I mean they actually haven't actively done anything?
:11:03. > :11:07.They haven't done a single thing to help me in any way.
:11:07. > :11:14.Under the payment by results model, Tony is worth up to �6,500 to a
:11:14. > :11:18.provider. To try and understand why he wasn't getting the support he
:11:18. > :11:28.needs, we found someone who had been paid to implement Triage
:11:28. > :11:30.policy and was prepared to talk to me. Linda Smith worked as an
:11:30. > :11:35.employment advisor with Triage in Aberdeen, and often dealt with
:11:35. > :11:38.clients from the hard-to-place group.
:11:38. > :11:41.These people were probably more difficult to place in employment
:11:41. > :11:50.for us as employment workers, but for them, these people were bigger
:11:50. > :11:53.money. These people were the bucks, the ker-ching, that's what we were
:11:53. > :12:03.told. These people were money- makers. Oh, yeah, they were the
:12:03. > :12:08.
:12:08. > :12:11.bucks. These people were money- makers.
:12:11. > :12:13.After seven months on the Work Programme, nothing had changed for
:12:13. > :12:17.Tony and his contact with Triage was becoming increasingly sporadic.
:12:17. > :12:20.Then, last month, he says his adviser left a message on his phone
:12:20. > :12:23.on the day of his appointment. She said, hello Tony, just checking
:12:23. > :12:26.how you're doing. We'll see you next year. That was it, that was
:12:26. > :12:30.all it said? Yeah, that's what she said. She didn't say come in, or
:12:30. > :12:32.don't come in, she didn't say you don't need to come in any more. She
:12:32. > :12:36.didn't actually mention the appointment. Was this an unusual
:12:36. > :12:39.phone call? Had you had anything like this before? No. No. It was
:12:39. > :12:43.out of the blue, it was bizarre. But for Linda, who worked at Triage,
:12:43. > :12:46.this type of phone call comes as no surprise.
:12:46. > :12:53.If some of the clients that you met were too difficult to put into
:12:53. > :12:59.employment, what would happen? would be put on telephone
:12:59. > :13:03.interviews, so they didn't even have to come into the centre. They
:13:03. > :13:06.would be double-booked, triple booked sometimes in a diary. Just
:13:07. > :13:12.to make sure that there was this contact made, so they could tick a
:13:12. > :13:18.box to say, yeah, they're still on the Work Programme. But efforts to
:13:18. > :13:21.gain them employment stopped? Yeah, they would call it parking.
:13:21. > :13:25.That was the word that was used, you'll park them. Management would
:13:25. > :13:29.say that? It was them that told us to do it. It was their idea. You
:13:29. > :13:37.don't spend as much time with these people, because you are never going
:13:37. > :13:41.to get the money out of them. you think you were parked? Yes. I
:13:41. > :13:43.can't get a job, so they won't get their big reward for getting me a
:13:43. > :13:47.job. I spoke with other former Triage
:13:47. > :13:51.employees who told me similar stories to Linda. Triage told us it
:13:51. > :14:01.couldn't comment directly on Tony's case due to Data Protection.
:14:01. > :14:25.
:14:25. > :14:28.However, in a statement it said The experience of those we've
:14:28. > :14:34.spoken to suggest the financial model is working against those the
:14:34. > :14:37.scheme was set up to help the most those in the hard-to-place group.
:14:37. > :14:44.We asked a financial analyst to examine the Work Programme and the
:14:44. > :14:48.payment by results model upon which it is built. From the second I walk
:14:48. > :14:54.into the door as a participant of the programme, in the eyes of the
:14:54. > :14:58.provider, I have a price tag? Effectively. You have a value. You
:14:58. > :15:01.have a value, and as a referral, there's That's your income. Once
:15:01. > :15:05.you've been a referral, how much more money am I going to earn out
:15:05. > :15:08.of you? So which ones are you going to deal with first? Those that are
:15:08. > :15:11.easiest to get into work. So I can cherry-pick quite quickly. So, from
:15:11. > :15:16.what you're saying, it's cherry- pick the good and park the not-so-
:15:16. > :15:20.good. Absolutely. Order, order. Can I welcome you to
:15:20. > :15:22.this afternoon's evidence session. Labour MP Dame Anne Begg is the
:15:22. > :15:27.chair of a Parliamentary select committee assessing the
:15:27. > :15:32.effectiveness of the Work Programme. Was she aware that providers were
:15:32. > :15:34.cherry-picking? They won't help someone if they are expecting to
:15:34. > :15:37.get, say, �5,000 from the Government for getting them into
:15:37. > :15:44.work, but if they spend �6,000 on that individual getting them into
:15:44. > :15:47.sustained work then that is loss- making for the company. So it is
:15:47. > :15:50.clear that what has been happening, they have been selecting the
:15:50. > :15:53.easiest ones out of those groups, and worked with them and not
:15:53. > :16:03.working with those they have assessed as being too far from the
:16:03. > :16:17.
:16:17. > :16:20.labour market and too difficult to The whole point of paying by
:16:20. > :16:22.results was to stop providers from this kind of cherry-picking,
:16:22. > :16:24.because the financial incentives would be so attractive that the
:16:24. > :16:27.hard-to-place wouldn't be ignored? And, when bidding for these
:16:27. > :16:33.lucrative contracts, the providers promised to do everything they
:16:33. > :16:41.could to help those who needed it Jemma Brown lives in Southampton
:16:41. > :16:45.and is registered blind. She's been unemployed for four years. She was
:16:45. > :16:49.placed on the Work Programme in March last year.
:16:50. > :16:53.I was really hopeful. I think that's how I'd described it. I was
:16:53. > :16:55.hopeful that it was going to make a difference and that things would
:16:55. > :16:57.change and I'd at least get some interviews.
:16:57. > :17:04.Jemma was placed with employment agency A4e, the second-biggest
:17:04. > :17:09.contractor to the Work Programme. It claims to have saved the tax-
:17:09. > :17:15.payer �24 million a year by getting long-term unemployed into work.
:17:16. > :17:24.That's on their website. Now, I've got a copy of their bid to deliver
:17:24. > :17:27.the Work Programme in the south east. In it they say they will
:17:27. > :17:30.provide an accessible service for all clients, tailor the programme
:17:30. > :17:36.to the needs of the individual, and each client will be seen monthly by
:17:36. > :17:41.a work adviser. Not so, according to Jemma Brown. I can kind of go,
:17:41. > :17:45.like, two or three months without seeing him. Two or three months?
:17:45. > :17:47.Before then I've kind of waited that couple of months and then
:17:47. > :17:50.actually had my appointment cancelled the day before and had to
:17:50. > :18:00.wait another month or something. How many jobs has A4e found you or
:18:00. > :18:02.
:18:02. > :18:07.Jemma is not an isolated case. Mark Cooper lives in Edinburgh. He's a
:18:08. > :18:12.politics graduate and a former Labour Party candidate. Mark has
:18:12. > :18:15.cerebral palsy, but unlike Jemma he's not in the hard-to-place group.
:18:15. > :18:20.He volunteered to join the Work Programme and has been with A4e for
:18:20. > :18:28.a year. In that time he's applied for over a hundred jobs, most if
:18:28. > :18:36.which he's found himself. He now has serious doubts as to whether
:18:36. > :18:40.A4e can help him get a job. What's the problem, then? Why are you not
:18:40. > :18:50.getting the job through A4e? Because they have got too many, too
:18:50. > :18:53.
:18:53. > :18:56.many people to help. Their staff do not have the time that they or I
:18:56. > :18:59.would like to help me. Would you say you're not getting that
:18:59. > :19:07.intensive job support? No. No, I'm But what about A4e's promise to
:19:07. > :19:12.provide an accessible service for all clients? They can't do things
:19:12. > :19:15.in large print. I can't use their computers. Everywhere I've turned
:19:15. > :19:18.in the Work Programme there's been a barrier in the way for me
:19:18. > :19:22.accessing it. Did you get the feeling almost like you were the
:19:22. > :19:32.first disabled person they'd come across? It really was like they had
:19:32. > :20:04.
:20:04. > :20:07.no clue about disability whatsoever. The system was set up in such a way
:20:07. > :20:12.that providers weren't expected to have the expertise in every single
:20:12. > :20:16.disability field. But this was where charities and support
:20:17. > :20:19.organisations with specialist skills would come into their own.
:20:19. > :20:21.When the main providers competed for the multi-million pound Work
:20:22. > :20:30.Programme contracts, they included in their bids lists of charities
:20:30. > :20:33.and organisations they said they would be using to help clients.
:20:33. > :20:36.Around 1,000 of these support groups were signed up. They
:20:36. > :20:41.anticipated an exciting time. They would be paid by the main provider
:20:42. > :20:44.every time their support services were used. One of them is a group
:20:44. > :20:50.offering support to single parents, some of whom have mental health
:20:50. > :21:00.problems. It agreed to provide a helpline service for clients on the
:21:00. > :21:01.
:21:01. > :21:03.work programme. To date, it's only had three phone calls.
:21:03. > :21:06.We had to dedicate substantial staff time to actually negotiating
:21:06. > :21:10.with and preparing the information for the bids that we submitted to
:21:10. > :21:13.the Work Programme, and yet this resource isn't being used. And I
:21:13. > :21:20.think that's what I find so, so disappointing about the whole thing.
:21:20. > :21:23.Was One Parent Family Scotland's experience unusual? We conducted a
:21:23. > :21:25.survey of 348 voluntary organisations listed on the DWP
:21:25. > :21:30.website as being subcontractors to the Work Programme in July last
:21:30. > :21:33.year. Surprisingly, 40% of the 184 who responded said they weren't
:21:33. > :21:40.part of the Work Programme, therefore shouldn't even be on the
:21:40. > :21:43.list. Then there was the number of referrals. In Scotland, 75% of
:21:43. > :21:51.organisations correctly listed as being subcontractors said they had
:21:51. > :21:57.received fewer referrals than expected. And across the UK, 41%
:21:57. > :21:59.hadn't received any at all. Why do you think organisations like
:21:59. > :22:05.yourselves were included in the first place if there isn't this
:22:05. > :22:10.desire to actually engage? I think it looked good. I think it was
:22:10. > :22:12.window-dressing. I think it helped people win contracts if they showed
:22:12. > :22:15.they were engaging with local organisations and charities who had
:22:15. > :22:22.decades of experience working with the groups the Work Programme was
:22:22. > :22:32.targeting. These concerns were echoed by some
:22:32. > :22:47.
:22:47. > :22:53.of the other Scottish organisations From the evidence we have gathered,
:22:53. > :22:56.it seems that finance is driving this system. Some providers are
:22:56. > :23:00.going for the quick return, focusing on those most likely to
:23:00. > :23:03.get a job. And others are failing to refer clients to much-needed
:23:03. > :23:10.support because they have to pay for that support, thereby cutting
:23:10. > :23:12.their profit. Is this pursuit of financial reward
:23:12. > :23:19.leading to a culture of indifference to those who need help
:23:19. > :23:21.the most? Never ever ask how they are. When you go out to greet them,
:23:22. > :23:27.to bring them in to their appointment, their meeting time,
:23:27. > :23:31.never ask how they are. Why not? Because you might, you'll spend too
:23:31. > :23:36.much time then, because they would want to tell you all about what was
:23:36. > :23:42.wrong with them. Their words, not mine, I have to say. Never, ever
:23:42. > :23:46.ask anybody with a disability benefit how they are.
:23:46. > :23:51.It was difficult to accept what Linda Smith was about to tell me.
:23:51. > :24:01.According to her, this was how some staff talked about clients. They
:24:01. > :24:02.
:24:02. > :24:05.were all "LTBs". Lying, thieving bustards. Who were? The clients.
:24:05. > :24:12.That's how they're referred to as clients. You're a lying, thieving
:24:12. > :24:20.bustard. These were clients that you had been employed to help?
:24:20. > :24:25.help and support back into employment. Yeah. That's offensive.
:24:25. > :24:30.It's unprofessional. It's so many words I could say about that. It's
:24:30. > :24:32.just wrong. We've spoken to a number of former
:24:32. > :24:42.Triage employees who have confirmed they, too, had heard this term
:24:42. > :24:54.
:24:54. > :24:57.being used. In a statement, Triage "This is not a phraseology used or
:24:57. > :25:00.accepted by Triage. We believe this relates to a single incident,
:25:00. > :25:03.apparently almost a year ago." In relation to not asking how clients
:25:03. > :25:05.are, Triage told us: "This is a misinterpretation of a constructive
:25:05. > :25:08.approach to positively working with Health Benefit clients. We have
:25:08. > :25:11.found more effective ways of greeting a client without using
:25:11. > :25:15.words that may refocus them on their health concerns." We asked
:25:15. > :25:18.Dame Anne Begg, who is chairing the inquiry into the Work Programme, to
:25:18. > :25:21.look at some of our evidence. At Tony, who feels he has been parked
:25:21. > :25:23.by the system. Jemma, who says her disability isn't being catered for.
:25:23. > :25:26.And former Triage employee Linda Smith.
:25:26. > :25:31.What they have done to get you job- ready? Nothing. Not at all.
:25:31. > :25:34.Absolutely nothing. The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to
:25:35. > :25:37.be able to pick himself up and put himself back into the workforce.
:25:38. > :25:41.Everywhere I have turned in the Work Programme there has been a
:25:41. > :25:43.barrier to me accessing it. They shouldn't be working with people
:25:43. > :25:46.with disabilities, and they shouldn't be advocating on their
:25:46. > :25:49.behalf if they can't do it themselves. This is A4e we're
:25:49. > :25:56.talking about. That's a company that should know better. Lying,
:25:56. > :26:04.thieving bustards. Who were? clients. That is shocking, and I
:26:04. > :26:14.hope this is a rare example of that. If that is widespread, then that is
:26:14. > :26:17.terrible. Will you be feeding our evidence into your ongoing inquiry?
:26:17. > :26:20.I think what you have shown here in your programme will certainly form
:26:21. > :26:23.part of the evidence that we will use when we reach our conclusions
:26:23. > :26:25.and make recommendations to Government as to what should happen
:26:25. > :26:28.to the Work Programme as it develops.
:26:28. > :26:33.Those recommendations will come here, to the Department for Work
:26:33. > :26:40.and Pensions. I wanted to put all the evidence we had gathered to the
:26:40. > :26:43.man in charge. Do you think that cherry-picking is
:26:43. > :26:47.taking place? I think that we've set some very clear incentives for
:26:47. > :26:50.the WP providers. They know they're only going to make money if they
:26:50. > :26:53.get these people into work. They know they're only going to make
:26:53. > :26:56.money if they provide the right support. With respect, you haven't
:26:56. > :27:01.answered my question. Do you think that cherry-picking is taking
:27:01. > :27:04.place? If people have got evidence of cherry-picking, if people are
:27:04. > :27:06.concerned about that, there is a complaints mechanism, there is an
:27:06. > :27:09.independent case examiner who can respond to those details. But the
:27:09. > :27:12.incentives are in place to ensure that people get the right support.
:27:12. > :27:17.One person who worked within the industry, she told us that clients
:27:17. > :27:19.were referred to by staff as LTBs, lying, thieving bustards. Well,
:27:19. > :27:22.that sort of language is inappropriate and is wrong, and I
:27:22. > :27:25.would want to make sure that where that language is used, that
:27:25. > :27:31.appropriate disciplinary action is taken against the employees with
:27:31. > :27:34.the provider. Looking at the supply chain, we carried out a survey, and
:27:34. > :27:37.what we discovered was that the expertise and the knowledge of many
:27:37. > :27:46.outside support organisations weren't being used. They feel
:27:46. > :27:49.they've been used as bid candy to window-dress. I think that prime
:27:49. > :27:56.contractors have identified people who they believe could help could
:27:56. > :27:59.deliver an effective service. They've got to decide whether that
:27:59. > :28:01.works in the long term. They've got to decide whether those
:28:01. > :28:04.organisations provide the right service. I think there'd be some
:28:04. > :28:06.organisations that haven't had the volume of referrals that they
:28:06. > :28:10.expected. I've a got relentless focus on ensuring that the Work
:28:10. > :28:12.Programme delivers to the people who take part in it. I want to see
:28:12. > :28:15.this programme to get more people into work.
:28:15. > :28:18.Few will disagree that supporting long-term sick and disabled
:28:18. > :28:22.unemployed back into work is a good thing. But is the Work Programme
:28:22. > :28:32.the best way of achieving these results? The Select Committee will
:28:32. > :28:35.report its findings to Government in April. Will the financial model,