0:00:00 > 0:00:00That's Newsnight with Emily.
0:00:00 > 0:00:01Here on BBC One, it's time for the news where you are.
0:00:10 > 0:00:18Hello and welcome to Wales Live. Stay with us for the biggest stories
0:00:18 > 0:00:22in Wales and the issues that matter to you.
0:00:28 > 0:00:37Good evening. On Wales Live tonight. The First Minister under pressure
0:00:37 > 0:00:43after allegations of bullying. Fierce exchanges in the Senedd.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Anger. Anger that the First Minister would just stonewall such simple
0:00:47 > 0:00:53questions.Also tonight, police struggling to prevent crime has the
0:00:53 > 0:00:57deal with a sharp increase in calls from people suffering a mental
0:00:57 > 0:01:02health crisis. And fake news, Jason has been
0:01:02 > 0:01:07finding out why we fall for it.Have you ever stopped to consider how
0:01:07 > 0:01:17your brain decides which information to believe and what to disregard?
0:01:17 > 0:01:23Who will also be talking Brexit, as voting continues in Parliament
0:01:23 > 0:01:26tonight about the bill to leave the European Union.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28Noswaith dda, good evening.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Support for male victims of domestic abuse in Wales is 30 or 40 years
0:01:31 > 0:01:35behind what's available for women, according to a charity.
0:01:35 > 0:01:39The Dyn Project was set up as the first dedicated service
0:01:39 > 0:01:42for men in 2006 and demand has now reached a record high.
0:01:42 > 0:01:47Paul Heaney reports.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49It got so bad that I thought he might kill me,
0:01:49 > 0:01:54so I took an overdose.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57And then he came in to see me in the hospital and said when I got
0:01:57 > 0:02:00home it was going to get worse.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03So I think it was after being resuscitated twice that I thought,
0:02:03 > 0:02:05"I can't do this any more."
0:02:05 > 0:02:09Lewis is safe now, thanks to a charity.
0:02:09 > 0:02:11Before they physically hit you, they mentally have
0:02:11 > 0:02:13already broken you down.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17There are different ways of measuring the scale of this issue.
0:02:17 > 0:02:21One study suggests just one-in-five victims report to the police.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24The latest crime survey suggests 1.3 million women
0:02:24 > 0:02:27are affected each year.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29Over 700,000 men also said they'd experienced some form
0:02:29 > 0:02:33of domestic abuse that year.
0:02:33 > 0:02:35of domestic abuse that year.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38The Dyn Project started in 2006 - the first dedicated support service
0:02:38 > 0:02:43for male victims in Wales.
0:02:43 > 0:02:47We often say we're probably 30-40 years behind women's services.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50The charity says things in Wales have been steadily improving
0:02:50 > 0:02:54and points to three refuges here for men, compared to nine
0:02:54 > 0:02:57across the whole of England.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00But it also says refuge isn't always what men say they want.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04Often it's about specialist advisers on the phone.
0:03:04 > 0:03:06The biggest barrier, they say, is knowing help
0:03:06 > 0:03:09is even available all.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11And some of those cultural issues with men, particularly heterosexual
0:03:11 > 0:03:14men, like your manner, you deal with it.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18I think the more men that present, the more men that come forward,
0:03:18 > 0:03:21the more evidence we have for things like funding.
0:03:21 > 0:03:23Lewis got the help he needed just in time.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26It's thought many others don't.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31The family of former Welsh Government minister
0:03:31 > 0:03:34Carl Sargeant have said they have been "overwhelmed" by the support
0:03:34 > 0:03:36they have received since his death.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39In a statement, his son Jack said knowing how much his dad was loved
0:03:39 > 0:03:43has helped them bear the pain.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45Mr Sargeant is thought to have taken his own life days
0:03:45 > 0:03:47after being sacked from the Cabinet, following allegations
0:03:47 > 0:03:50of inappropriate behaviour.
0:03:50 > 0:03:53Today, the Prime Minister and the Labour Leader,
0:03:53 > 0:03:55Jeremy Corbyn, paid tribute to him in the House of Commons.
0:03:55 > 0:04:00I'm sure the House will join me in sending our deepest sympathies
0:04:00 > 0:04:04to the family and friends of the late Carl Sargeant,
0:04:04 > 0:04:09the Labour Assembly Member in Wales who very tragically died last week.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12I also join with him in offering condolences to the family
0:04:12 > 0:04:14and friends of Carl Sargeant, and I'm sure that goes
0:04:14 > 0:04:19for everybody across this House.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23The First Minister has faced calls from Conservative and Plaid Cymru
0:04:23 > 0:04:27AMs to answer questions about whether he misled the Assembly
0:04:27 > 0:04:30over alleged bullying within his Government,
0:04:30 > 0:04:35dating back to 2014.
0:04:35 > 0:04:35dating back to 2014.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37There was anger in the Senedd after Carwyn Jones refused
0:04:37 > 0:04:39to elaborate on what he knew about the claims.
0:04:39 > 0:04:41The First Minister has said issues brought up
0:04:41 > 0:04:43were dealt with at the time
0:04:43 > 0:04:46There has been a further fall in unemployment in Wales.
0:04:46 > 0:04:48Official figures show there were 5,000 fewer people out
0:04:48 > 0:04:50of work here between July and September than there
0:04:50 > 0:04:55were between April and June.
0:04:55 > 0:04:56were between April and June.
0:04:56 > 0:05:03The Welsh Government has welcomed a ruling that clears the way for it
0:05:03 > 0:05:05to impose minimum prices on alcohol.
0:05:05 > 0:05:06The Supreme Court has dismissed a challenge
0:05:06 > 0:05:08by the Scotch Whisky Association to Scottish Government plans
0:05:08 > 0:05:10to introduce minimum pricing there.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12Ministers here hope a bill making the change will become
0:05:12 > 0:05:13law by next summer.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15The weather:
0:05:15 > 0:05:17Tonight will be fairly cloudy with patches
0:05:17 > 0:05:20of rain and drizzle.
0:05:20 > 0:05:22Some dry weather, as well, with breaks in the cloud.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25It will be breezy on the coast, and a mild night.
0:05:25 > 0:05:27The lowest temperatures will be between seven and 11 Celsius.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29Tomorrow, a band of rain in the north-west
0:05:29 > 0:05:30will spread south-east.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32Behind it, it will be dry and brighten-up.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35There will be some sunshine in the north and west in the afternoon.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Temperatures will be on the mild side, between 10 to 14 Celsius,
0:05:38 > 0:05:40but turning colder once the rain clears, with a widespread
0:05:40 > 0:05:45frost tomorrow night.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47There will be a full weather forecast with Derek Brockway
0:05:47 > 0:05:48after the programme.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50Bethan.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00The leader of the Welsh Conservatives has called for a group
0:06:00 > 0:06:04of AMs to question the First Minister over allegations of
0:06:04 > 0:06:08bullying in the Welsh Government. Andrew RT Davies is a special
0:06:08 > 0:06:13enquiry is needed following claims by a former minister, Leighton
0:06:13 > 0:06:17Andrews, and ex-adviser Steve Jones over toxic culture. The government
0:06:17 > 0:06:21says it does not recognise the claims, but to people who used to
0:06:21 > 0:06:24work in the Welsh Government have told us that criticism of the
0:06:24 > 0:06:28culture is correct.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37These are the darkest days that any of us can remember in this
0:06:37 > 0:06:44institution.His death has shaken us to our core and we are heartbroken
0:06:44 > 0:06:51he is no longer with us.Carl Sargeant's death has left Welsh
0:06:51 > 0:06:55politics and grief. Four days before his death he was sacked from
0:06:55 > 0:06:59government over allegations from several women over his personal
0:06:59 > 0:07:04conduct. In the days since his death, there have been
0:07:04 > 0:07:09recriminations and allegations about the culture within the previous
0:07:09 > 0:07:12Welsh Government administration, allegations that Carl Sargeant and
0:07:12 > 0:07:17other ministers were bullied and undermined.Carl Sargeant was on the
0:07:17 > 0:07:24end of some of that bullying.Yes, hands there were ministers being
0:07:24 > 0:07:29targeted at different points. There were also advisers being targeted at
0:07:29 > 0:07:34different points. The First Minister was aware of this.What happens to
0:07:34 > 0:07:39Carl Sargeant didn't start just a couple of weeks ago. He had been
0:07:39 > 0:07:43subjected to this Kent and Medway for several years.Serving ministers
0:07:43 > 0:07:48went on the record said they did not recognise the claims.Leighton is
0:07:48 > 0:07:51one of those people who is going through grief and don't think it
0:07:51 > 0:07:59helpful for me to help open up a new field of conflict.I don't recognise
0:07:59 > 0:08:03the culture that they have commented upon in my own experience.And some
0:08:03 > 0:08:09question their motives. Lee Waters suggested on Twitter that old score
0:08:09 > 0:08:15at being settled, a point echoed tonight by a senior Labour MP who
0:08:15 > 0:08:19told BBC Wales tragic circumstances were being used for political gain.
0:08:19 > 0:08:24In response, Leighton Andrews said it was cowardly for an MP to attack
0:08:24 > 0:08:27him anonymously. There are others who say they do recognise the
0:08:27 > 0:08:33initial claims. I have spoken to two people who used to work in
0:08:33 > 0:08:37government who did not want to be named but reinforced the criticism
0:08:37 > 0:08:42that has been made, saying the Welsh Government was toxic and an unhappy
0:08:42 > 0:08:46place to work. One said give it up in the morning not knowing if you
0:08:46 > 0:08:50were supported and said the one person who could have changed the
0:08:50 > 0:08:55culture was the First Minister, but he often left it to others to set
0:08:55 > 0:08:57the tone. In response, the government told us.
0:09:07 > 0:09:12The First Minister is also under pressure over what he said about
0:09:12 > 0:09:17bullying on the record in the past. Three years ago the First Minister
0:09:17 > 0:09:24was asked if he had received any reports were had been a -- had been
0:09:24 > 0:09:30made aware of reports of bullying. He said no allegations have been
0:09:30 > 0:09:35made. Yesterday, he said that issues, as he called them, had been
0:09:35 > 0:09:41brought to his attention in 2014. Where any issues raised with me
0:09:41 > 0:09:45dealt with?Yes, they were dealt with. This afternoon the First
0:09:45 > 0:09:50Minister was called back to the gym but to answer a question from the
0:09:50 > 0:09:54Conservatives seeking clarity on the apparent discrepancy.I have nothing
0:09:54 > 0:09:58to add to the answers I have already given, but I reiterate the
0:09:58 > 0:10:03invitation that was made yesterday. If anybody wishes to come forward
0:10:03 > 0:10:09with further information.The leader of the Welsh Conservatives give this
0:10:09 > 0:10:14reaction.Anger. Anger that the First Minister did just stonewall
0:10:14 > 0:10:19such simple questions because he has acknowledged that there were issues
0:10:19 > 0:10:25around bullying and intimidation that, in his own words, were dealt
0:10:25 > 0:10:29with in 2014. Today I was seeking to find out when he became aware of
0:10:29 > 0:10:32those allegations, who dealt with them and what actions were taken to
0:10:32 > 0:10:36address those concerns so they wouldn't continue affecting the
0:10:36 > 0:10:43delivery of Welsh Government policy. He says that a cross-party committee
0:10:43 > 0:10:46of AMs should call the Minister to answer more questions about the
0:10:46 > 0:10:54allegations. While the independent enquiry into the First Minister's
0:10:54 > 0:10:58handling of Carl Sargeant's sacking is some weeks away, he is now facing
0:10:58 > 0:11:03more immediate pressure over allegations about the culture of his
0:11:03 > 0:11:08government in recent years. We asked the First Minister for an interview
0:11:08 > 0:11:13that he was unavailable. Joining me now is the Plaid Cymru assembly
0:11:13 > 0:11:18member Adam Price. You were in the chamber this afternoon and just like
0:11:18 > 0:11:27Andrew RT Davies were very angry.I? At this intensely difficult time, I
0:11:27 > 0:11:31have some sympathy for the enormous pressures that the First Minister
0:11:31 > 0:11:37must be under, but today was an opportunity, I think, to address the
0:11:37 > 0:11:41apparent contradiction, shall we say, between what we have heard from
0:11:41 > 0:11:48Leighton Andrews, from Steve Jones and now it seems from others and
0:11:48 > 0:11:55what the First Minister has said, said unequivocally in 2014 as we
0:11:55 > 0:12:01heard in the reply he gave at the time that there had been in such
0:12:01 > 0:12:03allegations of bullying. Those statements made by Leighton Andrews
0:12:03 > 0:12:09and Steve Jones, and the statement made by the First Minister are in
0:12:09 > 0:12:15clear contradiction to each other. They can't both be true. Today was
0:12:15 > 0:12:19an opportunity for the First Minister to come clean, if you like,
0:12:19 > 0:12:24with his view of the situation. Instead he refused to address the
0:12:24 > 0:12:29question. It can't have a position where serious allegations have been
0:12:29 > 0:12:33made and whether his question over if the Assembly has been misled and
0:12:33 > 0:12:37the First Minister refuse to address the question.We have had the
0:12:37 > 0:12:42statement from the First Minister. He has been clear both yesterday and
0:12:42 > 0:12:47today that he stands by his 2014 response. He has also been very
0:12:47 > 0:12:51clear that any other issues raised directly with them at that time were
0:12:51 > 0:12:55dealt with appropriately.Does that and to your concerns? What were the
0:12:55 > 0:13:01other issues?There is a different between issues and bullying
0:13:01 > 0:13:09allegations, maybe the issues were different, we don't know.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13We have heard from Leighton Andrews and Steve Jones who specifically say
0:13:13 > 0:13:16they raised allegations of bullying with the First Minister. He is
0:13:16 > 0:13:20saying that no such allegations were raised. Either they are allying with
0:13:20 > 0:13:23the First Minister misled the Assembly.He also
0:13:23 > 0:13:27the First Minister misled the Assembly.He also said today these
0:13:27 > 0:13:30were potentially HR issues. The Permanent Secretary will be better
0:13:30 > 0:13:34placed to answer isn't that a PowerPoint?He described these as
0:13:34 > 0:13:39hate our ages because when it comes to the question whether the present
0:13:39 > 0:13:43moment misled the Assembly that goes the core of our democracy because we
0:13:43 > 0:13:47cannot have a position where those who really does us. Honesty is one
0:13:47 > 0:13:55of the seven principles and public life.We jumped in here on these
0:13:55 > 0:14:00allegations of bullying and as a party you have an elected member who
0:14:00 > 0:14:03is facing allegations of bullying which were raised eight months ago
0:14:03 > 0:14:07and your own party leader says you haven't dealt with those
0:14:07 > 0:14:12successfully, so are you in a place to throw stones here is Plaid Cymru?
0:14:12 > 0:14:16I don't think anyone of us should shy away from the need for the
0:14:16 > 0:14:24culture of politics to change. I saw at Westminster during the time of
0:14:24 > 0:14:28new Labour when Malcolm Tucker was more fat than fiction quite frankly.
0:14:28 > 0:14:34That kind of brutal politics must come to an end. There are very
0:14:34 > 0:14:36specific questions the First Minister should have addressed today
0:14:36 > 0:14:45and the key question is whether that statement misled the Assembly
0:14:45 > 0:14:48because it clearly is contradicted by statements that were made by
0:14:48 > 0:14:56sending your advisers.Thank you for coming in. A senior police officer
0:14:56 > 0:14:59says his force is struggling to prevent crime as they are having to
0:14:59 > 0:15:02deal with so many calls from people with mental health issues. It comes
0:15:02 > 0:15:08as figures obtained by Wales Live show all police forces in Wales had
0:15:08 > 0:15:11seen a rise in calls involving mental health. Here is Jenny Rees
0:15:11 > 0:15:14with the story.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18It's Friday night and we are out with police in Carmarthen.
0:15:18 > 0:15:22This is no typical shift.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25PC Stuart Edwards is with Ed McHugh, an NHS mental health worker.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29And they are only responding to mental health-related calls.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33I didn't join the police to be a mental health worker as such,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36but we do have a lot of calls and I think it is good to give
0:15:36 > 0:15:39people a good service.
0:15:39 > 0:15:44From 4pm until midnight, if a call comes in where someone
0:15:44 > 0:15:47is in crisis the team is dispatched straight to the address.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50It is the only service of its kind in Wales.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54There is that sort of overlap where we deal with people,
0:15:54 > 0:15:57and even if we are dealing with them for a criminal purpose
0:15:57 > 0:16:01or as a victim or as a perpetrator, we have still got a duty of care
0:16:01 > 0:16:05to try and help them in a way.
0:16:05 > 0:16:09They keep their presence low-key and work in an unmarked van.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12It's 6:30pm and they are concerned about a mum who has called
0:16:12 > 0:16:15in in a great deal of distress.
0:16:15 > 0:16:20Stuart and Ed go in, but our cameras can go no further.
0:16:20 > 0:16:21What happens next is crucial.
0:16:21 > 0:16:26The two options at this time of night are A&E or a police cell.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29Neither of those is ideal.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31But if they can target this support it might mean that
0:16:31 > 0:16:33neither of those is needed.
0:16:33 > 0:16:34But in this case it is unavoidable.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37They feel she does need to go to hospital.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40And they take her to A&E.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42Mark Collins, Chief Constable at Dyfed-Powys Police,
0:16:42 > 0:16:45is also the lead on mental health for the National Police Chiefs'
0:16:45 > 0:16:48Council across England and Wales.
0:16:48 > 0:16:50He says that there has been an increase in calls
0:16:50 > 0:16:51linked to mental health.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54And it is having an impact.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57I think across the UK we have seen a 30-40% increase
0:16:57 > 0:16:58in all police forces.
0:16:58 > 0:17:02Some will be higher than that, some slightly lower, but around 30-40%.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05We don't fail to hit our 999 calls, but of course we are not out
0:17:05 > 0:17:08there being proactive, we are not out there preventing
0:17:08 > 0:17:10crime, detecting crime and doing our other policing duties,
0:17:10 > 0:17:12because we are tied up doing that work.
0:17:12 > 0:17:13Our research supports this.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16Wales Live asked every police force in Wales how many calls they've
0:17:16 > 0:17:18received in the last five years relating to a person's
0:17:18 > 0:17:20mental health.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23Each of them has seen an increase.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26Some more than others.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29In south Wales calls with a mental health link have
0:17:29 > 0:17:31increased by a huge 223%.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34In North Wales it has gone up 104%.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Dyfed-Powys 29%.
0:17:37 > 0:17:44Gwent only has figures for three years, but it has also seen a rise.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54Back on shift and more calls are coming in.
0:17:54 > 0:18:01He is on the phone to a gent we have had a call about in Lampeter.
0:18:01 > 0:18:06We are on our way up there now.
0:18:06 > 0:18:06We are on our way up there now.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08So, it has just gone 10pm.
0:18:08 > 0:18:11We are now in Lampeter.
0:18:11 > 0:18:16We can't go with the cameras.
0:18:16 > 0:18:18Someone has called in saying they are feeling suicidal.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20On this occasion they don't think the person is a danger
0:18:20 > 0:18:26to themselves, but they wait until a family member arrives.
0:18:26 > 0:18:29These calls take a lot of police time, but for every call
0:18:29 > 0:18:33there is a person in distress.
0:18:33 > 0:18:35Georgia Lawson from Welshpool at one time was calling the police
0:18:35 > 0:18:37several times a week.
0:18:37 > 0:18:45It's been a couple of years now, luckily, but I was really not safe,
0:18:45 > 0:18:48I was struggling with suicidal thoughts on a regular basis.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50At my worst I was probably calling them out about three
0:18:50 > 0:18:52or four times a week.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55I could sometimes, I would see them two days back-to-back
0:18:55 > 0:18:58because whatever crisis happened on the one day hadn't
0:18:58 > 0:19:01been resolved properly, so I was in the same situation
0:19:01 > 0:19:03the next night.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05If it wasn't for the police I would probably have wound up
0:19:05 > 0:19:11in hospital in life-threatening situations several times.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15I can say that definitely part of the reason I am still here today
0:19:15 > 0:19:17is because of the police.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20As well as the crucial support she was getting from the police,
0:19:20 > 0:19:24Georgia said she also felt very traumatised when officers
0:19:24 > 0:19:27had to detain her under the Mental Health Act.
0:19:27 > 0:19:31There I was in handcuffs, and being put into the back of a van.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35The whole experience was unlike anything else I have ever
0:19:35 > 0:19:37been through and I will always remember it.
0:19:37 > 0:19:41That put a fear in me about ever getting that ill and ever getting
0:19:41 > 0:19:43into that situation again, because I didn't ever want to be
0:19:43 > 0:19:49that humiliated and that, sort of, treated that way again.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53Mark Collins says there is a lack of appropriate alternative places
0:19:53 > 0:19:56other than police cells or hospital A&E departments where
0:19:56 > 0:20:00people can get support.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03He is calling for specialist centres to be setup to help in crisis.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06It's that facility 24-7, with mental health workers,
0:20:06 > 0:20:09ex-service users, volunteers, charities there where we can take
0:20:09 > 0:20:15people to have that conversation and to be signposted to the services
0:20:15 > 0:20:18that they need, without going through the ordeal of being brought
0:20:18 > 0:20:22into a police vehicle and taken for an assessment.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25It's midnight, and the shift is coming to an end.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29These calls are increasing at such a rate that Dyfed-Powys Police
0:20:29 > 0:20:31is now planning to increase the service from four
0:20:31 > 0:20:34nights a week to seven.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37It is a shame that we had four or five calls coming
0:20:37 > 0:20:39in at the same time, and we physically can't deal
0:20:39 > 0:20:41with all of them at the same time.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43People live completely isolated from the rest of society
0:20:43 > 0:20:46and it is just really surprising how hard it is for them
0:20:46 > 0:20:51to get help sometimes.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53to get help sometimes.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56If you are feeling emotionally distressed and would like details of
0:20:56 > 0:21:04organisations which offer advice and support you can go online. Or you
0:21:04 > 0:21:15can call this number for free any time to hear recorded information.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17The Chief Constable of Dyfed-Powys police Mark Collins who we saw in
0:21:17 > 0:21:21the film is also the National Police Chiefs' Council lead for mental
0:21:21 > 0:21:26health and policing in England and Wales. Thank you for coming to the
0:21:26 > 0:21:30studio. We heard a colleague there of years saying he was surprised
0:21:30 > 0:21:35there was nobody else offering help. You surprised you have to do this? I
0:21:35 > 0:21:39think we have a role to play in supporting young people around
0:21:39 > 0:21:42mental health and we should have a leading role in that and that is
0:21:42 > 0:21:49becoming increasingly the picture. We want to see street triage rolled
0:21:49 > 0:21:53out seven days a week but ultimately what I want to see our reception
0:21:53 > 0:21:57centres, Sanctuary crisis care cafes where we can take people but don't
0:21:57 > 0:22:01need to be assisted under the Mental Health Act but signposted to
0:22:01 > 0:22:07services.Your day job is to tackle crime. Talk us through the impact
0:22:07 > 0:22:12this pressure on you is having on that job.My officers and staff are
0:22:12 > 0:22:18dealing at the moment across their time about 11% dealing with crime.
0:22:18 > 0:22:2325% dealing with vulnerable people, mental health, missing people. That
0:22:23 > 0:22:26shows a huge swing in the landscape that has changed in policing of the
0:22:26 > 0:22:32last 5-10 years.You spending too much time on mental health issues?
0:22:32 > 0:22:35We have a role to play but while we are doing that we're not fighting
0:22:35 > 0:22:41crime and supporting of crime and not chasing up prevention
0:22:41 > 0:22:44opportunities.You singing criminals are getting angry with that because
0:22:44 > 0:22:49you are busy doing this to work? Dyfed-Powys is one of the places
0:22:49 > 0:22:52that the safest places to live in England and Wales. Detection rate
0:22:52 > 0:22:56and low crime rates. But while we are focusing on this we are not
0:22:56 > 0:22:59doing core policing duties.The service you are expanding to some
0:22:59 > 0:23:04nights a week, should all police forces across Wales try and achieve
0:23:04 > 0:23:11this?I think many are. Gwent have got a similar system in working
0:23:11 > 0:23:15mental health officers in the control rooms. At the moment we are
0:23:15 > 0:23:19the only ones out and about. You think everybody should be out on the
0:23:19 > 0:23:24streets? It as a stepping stone towards what they want, when the
0:23:24 > 0:23:27cafes and reception centres. I think it's a sticking plaster over dealing
0:23:27 > 0:23:32with the real issues.The NHS needs to take a lot of the weight off your
0:23:32 > 0:23:36gum is that what you are saying?We work very closely with the NHS
0:23:36 > 0:23:40colleagues and a very good working relationship, we work closely
0:23:40 > 0:23:43together and we agreed to expand the service to seven days a week and
0:23:43 > 0:23:47they had cut the same resources to agree but in the is not doing at the
0:23:47 > 0:23:52heart of the root of the problem. But the group at the same resources.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55We are working with people engaged recently disengaged the service and
0:23:55 > 0:23:59that can't be right.Most government needs to step up don't they, and
0:23:59 > 0:24:04they say policies they put in place did use the use of police custody in
0:24:04 > 0:24:08Christ because the more they can do? We have reduced the numbers of
0:24:08 > 0:24:12people who come into police custody and police cells for a place of
0:24:12 > 0:24:15safety but asked you we had a dud that increase in people that were
0:24:15 > 0:24:18actually taken the place of safety so it was by the relationship we
0:24:18 > 0:24:21have got the good old boys and partners in terms of creating this
0:24:21 > 0:24:25subsidy but we have still...Should the West government invest more in
0:24:25 > 0:24:29this?That is a conversation to have with other health boards but I would
0:24:29 > 0:24:34like to see more infrastructure and more funding going from phone
0:24:34 > 0:24:41services.Thank you for coming into night. This week Theresa May said
0:24:41 > 0:24:46that Russia was planting fake stories to sow discord in the West.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50Fake news is big news. One of the most widely shared stories during
0:24:50 > 0:24:54the latest elections in America was the fake story that Pope Francis and
0:24:54 > 0:24:58endorsed Donald Trump for president. Collins dictionary has named the big
0:24:58 > 0:25:08news it's word of the year. Here is Jason. In 2017 we have good news
0:25:08 > 0:25:11stories hurtling towards us vying for our attention and 24 hours a day
0:25:11 > 0:25:14and seven days a week, most of
0:25:14 > 0:25:19them from reputable sources.
0:25:19 > 0:25:20them from reputable sources.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23Most of them are from completely reputable sources, but others,
0:25:23 > 0:25:24quite simply, are made up.
0:25:24 > 0:25:25Put out there to deceive us.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28But have you ever stopped to consider how your brain decides
0:25:28 > 0:25:32which information to believe and what to disregard?
0:25:32 > 0:25:35Dr Dean Burnett has made it his mission to help us
0:25:35 > 0:25:38think a little deeper about what our brains are up to.
0:25:38 > 0:25:40His book, The Idiot Brian, has been sold all over the world.
0:25:40 > 0:25:46In it, he explains to nonscientists how our brains tick.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55The brain is constantly bombarded by different types of information
0:25:55 > 0:25:58from various sources at all times, and that's a lot to take in.
0:25:58 > 0:26:04The human brain is very much averse to things being uncertain, unsure.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07As a result, anything uncertain causes a bit of discomfort.
0:26:07 > 0:26:09We will constantly look for easy answers and simple
0:26:09 > 0:26:14solutions to big problems.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16solutions to big problems.
0:26:16 > 0:26:20In BBC newsrooms like this one objectivity is key,
0:26:20 > 0:26:23but according to neuroscientists like Dean, quirks in the human brain
0:26:23 > 0:26:29could indeed make us vulnerable to fake news.
0:26:29 > 0:26:31While he lectures on neuroscience by day, by night Dean
0:26:31 > 0:26:36is a stand-up comedian.
0:26:36 > 0:26:37The wonderful, Mr Dean Burnett, ladies and gentlemen!
0:26:37 > 0:26:42Come on!
0:26:42 > 0:26:43Come on!
0:26:43 > 0:26:48Dr Burnett, James, I keep telling you.
0:26:48 > 0:26:50It is a bit strange having a neuroscientific, psychological
0:26:50 > 0:26:55knowledge when you're doing comedy because you are sort of aware
0:26:55 > 0:26:58of stock responses that people exhibit when they're in certain
0:26:58 > 0:27:00situations, such as in a crowd.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03'Fake news', that's another word I'm not a fan of.
0:27:03 > 0:27:04Fake news.
0:27:04 > 0:27:06Because I'm old enough to remember when that was called 'lies'.
0:27:06 > 0:27:11Just straightforward, basic lies.
0:27:11 > 0:27:11Just straightforward, basic lies.
0:27:11 > 0:27:16Dean uses his comedy to explore the psychology behind
0:27:16 > 0:27:17the fake news phenomenon.
0:27:17 > 0:27:20And he's made up his own fake news story to test his theories.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22He's offering the audience a very simple reason why the UK
0:27:22 > 0:27:27chose to leave the EU.
0:27:27 > 0:27:29chose to leave the EU.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32My main intention is to try to convince people that the main
0:27:32 > 0:27:35reason we left the EU is because the Severn Bridge toll
0:27:35 > 0:27:38is too high, which sounds unrealistic, but there's actually
0:27:38 > 0:27:41a lot of evidence for it.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43There's been a study, a longitudinal, 15-year,
0:27:43 > 0:27:47population sampling, opportunity-based, double-blinded,
0:27:47 > 0:27:52randomised, control, mass-population survey.
0:27:52 > 0:27:54The weird result was that the Severn Bridge toll
0:27:54 > 0:27:57was a massive factor contributing to Brexit.
0:27:57 > 0:28:01The point, of course, is that none of what I've just said is true,
0:28:01 > 0:28:03I've just made that up, but it sounds believable
0:28:03 > 0:28:06because I said it in such a sort of straightfaced, analytical way.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08Fake news, see, that's what that is!
0:28:08 > 0:28:11APPLAUSE.
0:28:11 > 0:28:12Yeah.
0:28:12 > 0:28:16The problem is when people have so much news available to them now,
0:28:16 > 0:28:18a lot of which is created by people who aren't impartial,
0:28:18 > 0:28:21who have an agenda, who have a political bias,
0:28:21 > 0:28:24you can sort of pick and choose which news you agree
0:28:24 > 0:28:26with and which news you don't, even though the underlying reality
0:28:26 > 0:28:29might completely be different.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33Look no further than the fake news and the crooked media.
0:28:33 > 0:28:34We are fighting the fake news.
0:28:34 > 0:28:39You are fake news.
0:28:39 > 0:28:42Fake news can have very real consequences.
0:28:42 > 0:28:45During the US presidential election last year, fake news stories
0:28:45 > 0:28:48on social media were shared more widely than mainstream news.
0:28:48 > 0:28:50So can neuroscience offer us a solution?
0:28:50 > 0:28:57I think if you have an understanding, or at least
0:28:57 > 0:29:00an awareness of the fact that you are not going to be completely
0:29:00 > 0:29:02rational and objective on everything you're told,
0:29:02 > 0:29:04that can be helpful.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07That can be useful because you can see something and go,
0:29:07 > 0:29:10"Oh, I agree with that", then stop for a second and think,
0:29:10 > 0:29:13"Is this conforming to my prejudice or is it an actual reliable
0:29:13 > 0:29:14bit of information?"
0:29:14 > 0:29:17And, as a result, you might benefit from that.
0:29:17 > 0:29:19Fake news may be reduced slightly.
0:29:19 > 0:29:21I'm sort of known for not knowing how to finish
0:29:21 > 0:29:23a set, so, umm, goodbye, I guess.
0:29:23 > 0:29:28APPLAUSE.
0:29:28 > 0:29:33APPLAUSE.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46Strong emotions are being stirred up over Brexit this week at
0:29:46 > 0:29:55Westminster. The most fierce debate so far has been about the Prime
0:29:55 > 0:29:57Minister's desire to include the exact date for Brexit in the
0:29:57 > 0:30:07legislation.
0:30:13 > 0:30:16The clock is now ticking to the exact day hour, minute
0:30:16 > 0:30:18and second when the United Kingdom is expected to exit
0:30:18 > 0:30:19the European Union.
0:30:19 > 0:30:21The Prime Minister says that when the clock strikes 11pm
0:30:21 > 0:30:24on Friday, 29 March 2019, the UK will leave.
0:30:24 > 0:30:27The UK Government wants to add the date to the EU Withdrawal Bill
0:30:27 > 0:30:29currently being fine tuned as MPs work through hundreds of pages
0:30:29 > 0:30:32of amendments and new clauses in the Committee Stage.
0:30:32 > 0:30:35For the process to keep moving, the UK wants to agree its divorce
0:30:35 > 0:30:41issues by next month, when EU heads of state meet.
0:30:41 > 0:30:43But if sufficient progress isn't made, the EU says talks
0:30:43 > 0:30:50about a future trading relationship can't even begin.
0:30:50 > 0:30:53The Government wants to keep up the momentum.
0:30:53 > 0:30:57If a Brexit deal can be agreed by next autumn there will be time
0:30:57 > 0:31:00for parliaments across the continent to ratify the deal
0:31:00 > 0:31:03before it is made law.
0:31:03 > 0:31:07The Government also says it will give MPs to vote on the deal,
0:31:07 > 0:31:11but will leave the EU anyway, even if it is rejected.
0:31:11 > 0:31:14With so much still to be decided between now and then,
0:31:14 > 0:31:19every second counts.
0:31:25 > 0:31:31Well, the debate has just finished for tonight. Labour MP Jo Stevens
0:31:31 > 0:31:36joint us from Westminster. I give for joining us. Let's look at the
0:31:36 > 0:31:42date. Why not have it in law to focus minds?This isn't about having
0:31:42 > 0:31:46the dates in. Doctor focused mind, this is a gimmick by Theresa May to
0:31:46 > 0:31:50placate the hard regs are tears in her Cabinet and across the Tory
0:31:50 > 0:31:55party. She said in her Florence speech that have a transitional deal
0:31:55 > 0:32:01with an existing -- within existing structures she would need to have
0:32:01 > 0:32:04that in the transitional period after we leave the EU and if the
0:32:04 > 0:32:07data is written into the face of the bill that will prevent that
0:32:07 > 0:32:13happening. This government amendment is a gimmick, it has created quite
0:32:13 > 0:32:17if the brow atmosphere this week. We will be voting on it right at the
0:32:17 > 0:32:22end of the process.She wants to focus minds within a wrong party,
0:32:22 > 0:32:26yes, but also people like you perhaps who voted to remain. You
0:32:26 > 0:32:31resign from the shadow never the triggering of Article 50. You
0:32:31 > 0:32:38clearly don't want Brexit to happen. Will you frustrated at stage? It is
0:32:38 > 0:32:43not about frustrating it. This bill isn't about leaving the European
0:32:43 > 0:32:48Union, that issue has been decided. This bill is about what was says
0:32:48 > 0:32:52Parliament plays unmapped and how we protect the rights and protections
0:32:52 > 0:32:58that we have enjoyed as a result of being a member of the European
0:32:58 > 0:33:01Union. Environmental, consumer, workers' rights. It has nothing to
0:33:01 > 0:33:06do with whether we leave or don't, it is how we leave.You have been
0:33:06 > 0:33:12told that you will get a vote on the final deal as MPs, but we believe
0:33:12 > 0:33:18anyway regardless of what Parliament votes. Is that a meaningful vote?Of
0:33:18 > 0:33:22course it's not. You have seen in the debates this week that there are
0:33:22 > 0:33:26a number of Conservative MPs who are opposed to this approach. This is
0:33:26 > 0:33:31not in the national interest for us to leave about a deal, and the way
0:33:31 > 0:33:35that this has been framed about the vote for Parliament is basically we
0:33:35 > 0:33:40will offer you have ever we think is right and if you don't take it,
0:33:40 > 0:33:44there is no deal, and we will go off the cliff edge and that is not
0:33:44 > 0:33:48acting in the national interest. Looking at the role of Wales, you
0:33:48 > 0:33:54mention a power grab. What disabled the Welsh assembly have in this?
0:33:54 > 0:33:57There are a number of amendments that we have tabled that had been
0:33:57 > 0:34:01agreed by the Welsh and Scottish governments. They will be coming up
0:34:01 > 0:34:06for a debate in the coming weeks in order to protect the interests and
0:34:06 > 0:34:09nature that the devolved institutions do not have powers
0:34:09 > 0:34:16stripped away.In other words, if you could stop Brexit comedy would,
0:34:16 > 0:34:20wouldn't you?I personally would, but that is not the Labour Party
0:34:20 > 0:34:25position. The Labour Party position is that we respect the referendum
0:34:25 > 0:34:29result, but we want to add jobs first Brexit and we want something
0:34:29 > 0:34:33in the national interest, which is not why we are going at the moment
0:34:33 > 0:34:38with the government's position. Thank you for joining us. That is it
0:34:38 > 0:34:42for tonight. Jason and I will be back same time next week. Thank you
0:34:42 > 0:34:43for watching.