:00:10. > :00:15.The narrative in this election is that Theresa May is hyper cautious
:00:16. > :00:20.and shies away from any risks so it's odd then that the Conservative
:00:21. > :00:23.manifesto contains so much challenging news Brora one group
:00:24. > :00:31.above all others that actually boats, pensioners. Damian Green
:00:32. > :00:38.joins me now, thank you for coming in, do you recognise this document?
:00:39. > :00:45.I do. Who produced it? The Conservative Party. And what does it
:00:46. > :00:48.contain? A forensic dissection of the way Labour approaches any
:00:49. > :00:53.problem to say there is a magic money tree, we don't need to the
:00:54. > :00:58.former change anything, we just need to take money off businesses and
:00:59. > :01:07.that solves a problem. You remember the 1970s... You agree this is
:01:08. > :01:14.detailed costing? It exposes the Labour manifesto as a Charente. Here
:01:15. > :01:22.is another document, why does this not a detailed costing? We produce
:01:23. > :01:28.realistic policies to deal with the real problems of this country, some
:01:29. > :01:32.of which raise money... Is that not double standards? Some of our
:01:33. > :01:37.pledges are to spend less money or move money around so that it spent
:01:38. > :01:46.in the right places, supporting people, not just saying the right
:01:47. > :01:49.solution is taxing business. You were talking about this overexcited
:01:50. > :01:54.weekend we're having at the moment, think this will focus peoples minds
:01:55. > :02:00.on the fact that in less than a month Jeremy Corbyn could be leading
:02:01. > :02:05.the Brexit negotiations and given Labour's complete lack of
:02:06. > :02:08.credibility and nonsensical economic policy, nobody wants that. So you
:02:09. > :02:13.mock them for the money tree but they have given us detailed accounts
:02:14. > :02:18.of how much tax they would raise and you have not. Let's talk about the
:02:19. > :02:22.black holes in your manifesto, you have said you will spend another ?8
:02:23. > :02:29.billion on the National Health Service, where is that money coming
:02:30. > :02:33.from? We produced a budget a few months ago so all the details
:02:34. > :02:38.costings for Conservative policies are already there. This is extra
:02:39. > :02:44.money for the NHS and I am asking where it comes from, extra taxes,
:02:45. > :02:48.extra borrowing or cuts elsewhere so which is it? A lot of it is read
:02:49. > :02:54.targeting money from within the system because we know we can do
:02:55. > :02:59.things better. More support for mental health for instance. From
:03:00. > :03:04.where? Biggest parts of the NHS and other parts of the public service,
:03:05. > :03:07.one of the things you have been talking about... Michael Fallon last
:03:08. > :03:15.week said there would be annexed to ?1 billion for the Armed Forces,
:03:16. > :03:18.where does that money come from? Earlier, you are talking about, we
:03:19. > :03:23.are going to target Winter fuel payments on those who really need
:03:24. > :03:28.them and that money, the money we save from that can be targeted to
:03:29. > :03:33.the health and social care system, that seems, to us, a sensible way of
:03:34. > :03:38.dealing with one of the big issues facing the country. How much money
:03:39. > :03:41.will you raise from cutting winter fuel payments? It depends where we
:03:42. > :03:50.set the level, we said we will consult on that. It costs about 2
:03:51. > :03:58.billion, so will it be most of that? We will see. Exactly why this is
:03:59. > :04:07.uncosted. It is not. We are saying the money we save the money we save
:04:08. > :04:10.on the winter fuel payments going to Bernie Ecclestone, Mick Jagger and
:04:11. > :04:16.in the John McDonnell will be better spent elsewhere. A lot of people
:04:17. > :04:20.watching this programme are not Mick Jagger, they are pensioners,
:04:21. > :04:23.wondering at what level they are going to lose their winter fuel
:04:24. > :04:28.payments. They are very concerned and you will not tell them. That is
:04:29. > :04:34.why we have said we will consult so that everyone who is in genuine need
:04:35. > :04:39.of the winter fuel payment. Get it but we think the money which is
:04:40. > :04:43.currently being spent on people who need it less, many of whom have come
:04:44. > :04:48.up and said to be over the years, should I be getting less? That money
:04:49. > :04:53.is better spent in a social care system we all agree is one of the
:04:54. > :04:55.great challenges facing our country. The difference between our document
:04:56. > :04:59.and the Labour document is that we deal with the big challenges facing
:05:00. > :05:08.this country, theirs is is just which -- just wish list. You have
:05:09. > :05:12.the Labour Party costing everything and telling people what it might
:05:13. > :05:16.cost and where it comes from, and your document, you are saying
:05:17. > :05:22.nothing to pensioners who need to know before voting day if they are
:05:23. > :05:25.going to lose their winter fuel payments. They will know that if
:05:26. > :05:31.they are in genuine need of that payment they will still get it. What
:05:32. > :05:34.does genuine need mean? That is what we will consult on after the
:05:35. > :05:38.election because that is the sensible way to do it, that is the
:05:39. > :05:43.way a grown-up government will operate. Here is our broad proposal,
:05:44. > :05:49.a proposal which causes interest among commentators... It is not
:05:50. > :05:52.commentators, it is pensioners watching this programme and
:05:53. > :05:56.wondering if I vote Conservative on June eight does that mean on June 15
:05:57. > :05:58.I lose my winter fuel payment yes or no and lots of them need to know
:05:59. > :06:07.that. Those pensioners will know that we
:06:08. > :06:10.have massively reduced pensioner poverty, one of the proudest things
:06:11. > :06:16.successive Governments have done is that in the 70s or 80s, poverty was
:06:17. > :06:20.40% of pensioners, we have now got that down to 14%. I'm proud we have
:06:21. > :06:23.introduced the auto inroll system that means that seven million more
:06:24. > :06:27.people are now saving for a pension so we'll be able to provide more
:06:28. > :06:31.security and dignity in old age for more people through the generations.
:06:32. > :06:34.We are looking ahead, not just at the election, we are thinking
:06:35. > :06:37.long-term about the big challenges. We have somehow slipped sideways
:06:38. > :06:42.away from Winter Fuel Payments. Can I put it to you that you start by
:06:43. > :06:46.cutting this, you are going to take it away from virtually everybody and
:06:47. > :06:49.the reason why is because you need that money and one David Cameron
:06:50. > :06:54.said at the last time of the election, he said the Labour then
:06:55. > :07:01.policy to take Winter Fuel Payments away from the top 5% by abolishing
:07:02. > :07:05.these all together. He went on, once they have started chipping away,
:07:06. > :07:08.believe me before long they'll start getting rid all together and we'll
:07:09. > :07:12.be back where we are, the people who've worked hard all their lives
:07:13. > :07:22.being written off and forgotten about? Ewe have identified social
:07:23. > :07:26.care as a big issue. Old Old people care about that, so do younger
:07:27. > :07:30.generations. We think restricting Winter Fuel Payments to those that
:07:31. > :07:34.particularly need it. We as a country will decide what that is in
:07:35. > :07:37.a proper consultation which is how Government should operate. You will
:07:38. > :07:41.decide it, you won't tell people now? Releasing the money for use in
:07:42. > :07:44.the social care system is absolutely a good way forward to start
:07:45. > :07:49.improving our social care system which is vital for so many people.
:07:50. > :07:53.At the same time as allowing them to keep their home, allowing them to
:07:54. > :07:57.know they can pass on ?100,000 to their children. You have mentioned
:07:58. > :08:02.social care a lot. Let us turn to that. Can you remind those watching
:08:03. > :08:06.what the Conservative policy was in 2015 on social care, how was it
:08:07. > :08:11.going to be paid for? The policy was broadly speaking to continue what's
:08:12. > :08:18.happened before and the... There was a cap wasn't there? It was the
:08:19. > :08:23.Dilnot proposals. The cap was? Well, the amount people could save was
:08:24. > :08:29.?23,000. What was the cap? The cap was going to be about ?72,000 I
:08:30. > :08:34.think. That was the policy. But the policy as it is I think needs to be
:08:35. > :08:38.changed for two reasons. First of all, we know there are going to be
:08:39. > :08:43.two million more over 75s in ten years' time which is great, we are
:08:44. > :08:47.all living longer. You have broke than promise. Let's talk about the
:08:48. > :08:51.2017 manifesto. We haven't broken that policy, we have devised a
:08:52. > :08:56.better system. The idea that the only thing people could pass on was
:08:57. > :09:00.?23,000 has now been replaced with the idea in the manifesto that
:09:01. > :09:03.they'll be able to pass on ?100,000. That's four times as good. Except
:09:04. > :09:07.the crucial difference is that the value of their house, if they're
:09:08. > :09:11.being cared for at home, is now being taken into account as an
:09:12. > :09:16.asset. Taking a constituency at random. Let's think of Ashford in
:09:17. > :09:21.Kent, the average value of a house is ?240,000. If there is a widow, a
:09:22. > :09:26.Mrs Smith living in an average house in Ashford under the new policy, how
:09:27. > :09:32.much extra might she have to pay? She won't have to if she's living on
:09:33. > :09:39.her own. She'll be able to stay in her house throughout her lifetime.
:09:40. > :09:51.If she's not a widow... Her spouse will be able to stay in the house.
:09:52. > :09:55.So she's got dementia, being looked after in her home in Ashford,
:09:56. > :09:58.average priced home. How much extra will she have to pay under your
:09:59. > :10:02.policy? She won't be paying anything. She will. Her estate will.
:10:03. > :10:26.She won't be paying anything. Whoever she wants to leave money to.
:10:27. > :10:30.I have the answer for you. She's going to pay an extra ?70,000, twice
:10:31. > :10:34.what she would have been paying under the previous policy. Why
:10:35. > :10:39.should she vote Conservative? I suspect that figure requires some
:10:40. > :10:42.heroic assumptions. It doesn't. She should vote Conservative and her
:10:43. > :10:46.children should because they will know that whatever level of care she
:10:47. > :10:51.needs, so this removes that terrible decision of how long should you try
:10:52. > :10:55.and keep someone at home or maybe put them into residential care which
:10:56. > :10:59.is a real decision many families struggle with. That decision needn't
:11:00. > :11:01.be influenced by financial considerations any more, everyone
:11:02. > :11:10.can be confident that they'll be able to have... Money from else
:11:11. > :11:14.negotiate due course? No, precisely, let them inherit ?100,000 as opposed
:11:15. > :11:18.to the ?23,000 which is a much fairer system. Let's talk about
:11:19. > :11:22.inheritance and take a different example. This time Twickenham. Vince
:11:23. > :11:28.Cable for the Liberal Democrats is fighting you very, very hard there.
:11:29. > :11:38.An average house there costs ?534,000. The chap has early
:11:39. > :11:42.dementia, he is being cared for in his home. They have a little bit of
:11:43. > :11:45.money but not much. They could lose everything. Their children and
:11:46. > :11:51.grandchildren hoping to inherit his wealth won't be able to. Well, when
:11:52. > :11:57.you say... I think it was going to be ?500,000, it's now ?100,000.
:11:58. > :12:03.?100,000 is a reasonable inheritance to have and people who are lucky
:12:04. > :12:07.enough to have had great rises in property value will still I think
:12:08. > :12:10.decide that ?100,000 is a better way of doing it. This has got to be put
:12:11. > :12:15.in context of funding the social care system. Of course, I understand
:12:16. > :12:19.there is a problem. I'm asking about your answers. Our answers to that
:12:20. > :12:22.problem mean more money goes into the social care system. Everyone
:12:23. > :12:26.knows there'll be a decent inheritance for them. Nobody will
:12:27. > :12:30.have to has their home during their lifetime or the lifetime of their
:12:31. > :12:34.surviving spouse. This is a much fairer system and it's a much
:12:35. > :12:38.more... Used to believe in inheritance. This is a vast secret
:12:39. > :12:46.inheritance tax. No, it's not. It is. You are a member of the Bow
:12:47. > :12:52.Group. You have written for them. You are a Bow Group guy? No, it's
:12:53. > :12:57.gone off on a journey. Well the group says, this is the biggest
:12:58. > :13:03.stealth tax in history. And the the Bow Group is wrong. We are saying
:13:04. > :13:06.everyone can inherit ?100,000 regardless of the costs that the
:13:07. > :13:12.state and therefore the taxpayer has paid to them. One of the biggish
:13:13. > :13:15.yous that's facing this country is intergenerational fairness, so we
:13:16. > :13:21.have... Yes, but the system is fair... Let me finish this. You have
:13:22. > :13:24.got to be fair to people working now and paying taxes, that is the only
:13:25. > :13:28.other way to pay for the care system. So this system we are
:13:29. > :13:31.proposing is fair, both to pensioners and particularly that
:13:32. > :13:35.minority of pensioners that may need long-term care but also to working
:13:36. > :13:41.taxpayers. That's the question you want to ask John McDonnell, how can
:13:42. > :13:44.he justify. ... Life is unfair generally, it's very unfair that
:13:45. > :13:49.some people get dementia and some people don't. Under the original
:13:50. > :13:52.Dilnot system, we pooled the risk in society after a certain threshold
:13:53. > :13:55.and spread out the unfairness. If you are very unlucky and get a
:13:56. > :13:59.terrible disease that means that you are being looked after at home,
:14:00. > :14:02.maybe a stroke where you don't return to work or whatever, you are
:14:03. > :14:06.being looked after at home, the rest of society will come in and help,
:14:07. > :14:10.you don't have to pay again. Under the new proposals you are basically
:14:11. > :14:13.on your own for most of it. Here is what Sir Andrew Dilnot himself said;
:14:14. > :14:17.people will be left helpless, knowing that if they're unlucky
:14:18. > :14:21.enough to suffer the need for care they'll be entirely on their own
:14:22. > :14:24.until they're down to their last ?100,000 of all their wealth
:14:25. > :14:28.including their house. He was right last time and he's right now. There
:14:29. > :14:34.are two problems with what Andrew Dilnot proposed and it was a serious
:14:35. > :14:39.set of proposals. One is that the social insurance he proposed as a
:14:40. > :14:45.way of doing it, there's just no products there for its. That market
:14:46. > :14:50.doesn't exist. The other, of course, is that his problem of, as it were,
:14:51. > :14:57.setting a cap rather nan a floor, meant that the distribution of the
:14:58. > :15:01.benefits became wildly uneven. You know, we are a party that Theresa
:15:02. > :15:05.May wants a country that works for everyone. So it's got to work for
:15:06. > :15:10.people, not just in Ashford though clearly I care about them and
:15:11. > :15:14.Twickenham, but also in Hartlepool and in North Wales and in Scotland
:15:15. > :15:19.and so on. So allowing everyone to know there is this flat figure of
:15:20. > :15:22.?100,000 is fair to everyone. Briefly, in Ashford, Twickenham and
:15:23. > :15:26.Scotland, people hate this policy and it makes them very, very nervous
:15:27. > :15:31.indeed. Is there any chance at all you are going to look at it again?
:15:32. > :15:34.No. What we have said in the manifesto incidentally just to put
:15:35. > :15:38.that no in context, is that we have set out this policy which we are not
:15:39. > :15:42.going to look at again. There'll be a green paper covering social care
:15:43. > :15:45.and health coming out in the summer. Because we all know that the
:15:46. > :15:49.long-term solution to the social care crisis is better integration of
:15:50. > :15:53.the NHS and social care. That's the aim of our policy. This is the first
:15:54. > :15:56.step along that road. I know you are coming back to it is can yous this
:15:57. > :16:00.more, but for now, Damian Green, thank you very much. I'm joined by
:16:01. > :16:05.the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell. Mr McDonnell, welcome.
:16:06. > :16:09.You'll have heard all of that. I'm going to ask you
:16:10. > :16:14.straightforwardly... Before we start, can I pay tribute to Jo Cox's
:16:15. > :16:16.husband, Brendan, I thought that was extremely moving and courageous as
:16:17. > :16:21.well, what he's done. OK, thank you very much. Can I ask you, we were
:16:22. > :16:25.talking about social care there, what is the Labour policy for
:16:26. > :16:30.funding social care? Immediately we promised to put in ?8 billion over
:16:31. > :16:34.if lifetime of Parliament to plug the gap the Conservatives have
:16:35. > :16:37.created. Part of this crisis isn't just about an ageing population,
:16:38. > :16:42.it's also about the ?4.6 billion that's been cut by the Conservatives
:16:43. > :16:46.from social care since 2010. What we are suggesting is that we need to
:16:47. > :16:51.get back to the Dilnot proposals. Including a cap? Yes. Let's be
:16:52. > :16:54.clear, what he recommended was a cap which I agree because it gives
:16:55. > :16:58.certainty to people about how much they'll pay. A cap of about how
:16:59. > :17:01.much? If you remember, the recommendation that was coming out
:17:02. > :17:05.of David Cameron's was about ?72,000. You would stick with that?
:17:06. > :17:08.I think so, but the issue here is that it's the point you made about
:17:09. > :17:12.the lottery and what condition you get. The reason some people call
:17:13. > :17:15.this unfortunately a dementia tax is because you don't know what
:17:16. > :17:19.condition you will suffer from. If it's a serious one like dementia,
:17:20. > :17:22.and I've been through this in my family, know what it's like, what
:17:23. > :17:26.happens is the burden falls upon you. Dilnot's proposals was also to
:17:27. > :17:33.have a threshold as well so there would be enough for the children to
:17:34. > :17:37.inherit if you had the assets. He said this basic principle, you pool
:17:38. > :17:42.the risk and in that way people are not left on their own. I gave Damian
:17:43. > :17:46.Green an example, I'mth I'll give you one as well. A couple living in
:17:47. > :17:49.Burnley, a constituency marginal and being strongly fought over at the
:17:50. > :17:54.moment. The average house there could be worth less than ?100,000.
:17:55. > :17:57.Yes. For people who need social care at home in Burnley in the Labour
:17:58. > :18:03.heartland seat, this is great news, it means they'll not have to pay a
:18:04. > :18:06.penny, it gives them security? OK. Funnily enough my daughters live up
:18:07. > :18:10.near Burnley and property prices are increasing there right the way
:18:11. > :18:15.around the country. Glad to hear it for Burnley. We want to make sure
:18:16. > :18:19.everybody is certain. That concept of we are all in this together is
:18:20. > :18:24.the right one to apply to health as well as social care itself. In that
:18:25. > :18:30.way, that's why... Let me just finish, Andrew. That's why we
:18:31. > :18:33.supported Dilnot will yous be a cross-party approach, because we've
:18:34. > :18:37.got to have something that's sustainable over generations. That's
:18:38. > :18:42.why we have said to the Conservative Party, pull this now, go back to the
:18:43. > :18:45.cross party approach that Sir Andrew Dilnot proposed. I just feel we have
:18:46. > :18:48.all been let down as a result of what has come in this Tory
:18:49. > :18:51.manifesto. Let me ask about your own manifesto. Sure. Some unanswered
:18:52. > :18:55.questions from your own manifesto. Are you going to end the freeze on
:18:56. > :18:58.welfare benefits? Rights, what we are doing is putting ?30 billion in
:18:59. > :19:03.over the lifetime of the Parliament into welfare. We are reforming the
:19:04. > :19:07.whole process, Universal Credits and the implication of that will be the
:19:08. > :19:11.impact of that will be basically the freeze, the impact of these
:19:12. > :19:15.proposals will make the freeze irrelevant because we'll reform the
:19:16. > :19:19.whole process. You know what I've said about when the freeze was
:19:20. > :19:23.introduced. I'm interested that when I say are you going to end the
:19:24. > :19:27.freeze on benefits, you can't simply say "yes". In effect we'll be doing
:19:28. > :19:33.as part of the overall reform package we are putting forward,
:19:34. > :19:38.which includes the introduction of a real living wage, the reform of
:19:39. > :19:41.Universal Credits and scrapping of the bedroom tax and sanctions et
:19:42. > :19:46.cetera. What about child Tax Credits, are you going to restore
:19:47. > :19:49.them? What we are doing is an overrecall comprehensive reform. You
:19:50. > :19:54.should be able to say yes? I said you are going to swim through vomit
:19:55. > :19:58.to vote against this. People know how strongly I feel on this, and
:19:59. > :20:02.Jeremy Corbyn, that's why I used that expression. That is why in my
:20:03. > :20:05.first budget the reforms we'll bring forward will make sure people are
:20:06. > :20:11.not just protected but the system will be reformed to benefit them.
:20:12. > :20:16.You are reasoningry about it, you could reverse it, the resolution
:20:17. > :20:22.foundation says 78% of Conservative cuts undeper your proposals will not
:20:23. > :20:26.be reversed. OK. I do not accept that. The proposals we'll be putting
:20:27. > :20:31.forward on reform, as set out already, will ensure that in effect
:20:32. > :20:36.we will be addressing this issue of how we reverse the benefit freeze
:20:37. > :20:40.itself. I want to do it as part of an overall reform package and not
:20:41. > :20:45.just pick off one by one. I feel so strongly on this. We will deliver
:20:46. > :20:49.this in the first budget. It would cost you ?8 billion to do the things
:20:50. > :20:54.that I've suggested. Socialism, as the man said, is the language of
:20:55. > :20:58.priorities and your priorities, as a Government, seem to be directed more
:20:59. > :21:02.towards middle class families because you found ?11 billion to
:21:03. > :21:06.reverse university charges and that, as you know, mainly the university
:21:07. > :21:10.fees mainly go to middle class families. Why can't you find that
:21:11. > :21:14.for people on benefits. We are putting ?30 billion in in benefit
:21:15. > :21:15.changes to make sure we tackle the real issues and reform the whole
:21:16. > :21:28.system. That is going in. We have just seen for the first
:21:29. > :21:32.time, the Tories increasing tuition fees, we have just seen states
:21:33. > :21:39.children, the percentage of State children declining. It is become a
:21:40. > :21:44.disincentive and that affects a spiralling working-class families.
:21:45. > :21:50.Let's look at another aspect, higher taxes and higher debt. You have said
:21:51. > :21:56.you will borrow roughly speaking ?25 billion a year for ten years, a huge
:21:57. > :22:03.amount of money but you have also said you are going to nationalise
:22:04. > :22:06.privatised industries without telling us how much that will cost
:22:07. > :22:12.and yet at the end of this you will have less debt than before, do you
:22:13. > :22:18.mean less debt in real terms? It is in relation to trend GDP. So it's a
:22:19. > :22:26.smaller percent, not a small bag? Yes, that is how economists and the
:22:27. > :22:30.market value the economy. It all depends, to get those numbers to
:22:31. > :22:35.work, it all depends on a certain rate of growth of the economy, so
:22:36. > :22:41.what is the rate of growth? Let me take you through it bit by bit,
:22:42. > :22:45.starting off with the basic proposal, we publish this, no other
:22:46. > :22:48.political party, certainly the Conservatives have not, they
:22:49. > :22:55.published their manifesto, you picked Damian Green up this, other
:22:56. > :23:00.organisations costed the additional funds needed for the Tory manifesto
:23:01. > :23:06.is ?40 billion and I do not think there is a single ? in their
:23:07. > :23:11.manifesto. Completely uncosted. He had a go at you and your having a go
:23:12. > :23:19.at him fair enough, but let's go on. We published this with every policy
:23:20. > :23:24.costed, the 25 billion, you know as well as I do the office budget
:23:25. > :23:29.responsibility multiplier is one, so every pound you invest you get at
:23:30. > :23:38.least a pound back, that will cover our borrowing. The 25 billion,
:23:39. > :23:40.that's from the CBI saying we need ?509 of investment... It's the
:23:41. > :23:47.figure of economic growth you require to fund your own plans. The
:23:48. > :23:52.OBR analysis will cover the borrowing. Can you give us a number
:23:53. > :24:00.for economic growth that you need? Its cost neutral. The growth
:24:01. > :24:05.figure... It cannot be if the economy is not growing. What I am
:24:06. > :24:13.seeing is the OBR are seeing clearly they are multiplying ratio is one.
:24:14. > :24:16.So 1% growth? For every 1% investment you get 1% back and the
:24:17. > :24:21.whole point is that I have put forward a programme which is cost
:24:22. > :24:28.neutral. We are not getting anywhere. I am trying to say to
:24:29. > :24:31.you... What is the cost of nationalising the industries? I am
:24:32. > :24:37.seeing it as cost neutral because everything you put money and you get
:24:38. > :24:40.money back, not me saying that, it is OBR. Nationalised industries we
:24:41. > :24:46.will issue bonds for shares which means we get an asset in return and
:24:47. > :24:50.that becomes cost neutral. In terms of costs involved, remember for
:24:51. > :24:55.investment etc we will be getting the income from those nationalise
:24:56. > :24:59.industries and that will cover the ability to reduced charges on the
:25:00. > :25:03.customers but at the same time any costs incurred or investment we
:25:04. > :25:10.need. This depends on economic growth and on the other side, apart
:25:11. > :25:14.from the top 5% you are going for in terms of income tax there is a whole
:25:15. > :25:20.raft of business taxes, higher corporation tax, the Robin Hood tax,
:25:21. > :25:27.taxing companies who spend more than ?330,000 on salary. Those might make
:25:28. > :25:31.sense individually but at a time in this country is on the edge of
:25:32. > :25:35.leaving the EU and lots of companies and individuals are thinking should
:25:36. > :25:40.I stay in Britain or go elsewhere, this could have the effect of
:25:41. > :25:46.driving the same people... Quite the reverse. What we do in terms of our
:25:47. > :25:49.spending policy is exactly what businesses are asking us for,
:25:50. > :25:55.long-term, patient, stable investment. What we are doing is
:25:56. > :25:58.giving them the opportunity to invest in this country alongside
:25:59. > :26:02.government which is why we are setting up the national investment
:26:03. > :26:10.bank. This is fully costed based on the principles actually what the
:26:11. > :26:14.others... Quickly... Who told us now is the time to invest because
:26:15. > :26:19.interest rates are virtually near zero, Philip Hammond just a couple
:26:20. > :26:23.of months ago. Who knows if he will be there for a long time. You have
:26:24. > :26:29.been discussing Damian Green through me, you'll be able to talk directly
:26:30. > :26:35.to them in a second. Now let's look at what is coming up after this
:26:36. > :26:39.programme. Join us from ten, we will be debating the question of
:26:40. > :26:44.globalisation will make the world a better place, we have assembled
:26:45. > :26:47.economists, seasoned commentators and campaigners against exploiting
:26:48. > :26:55.the world tour to debate perhaps the biggest question facing all of us.
:26:56. > :27:01.Very interesting, Damian Green and John McDonnell are back, John
:27:02. > :27:05.mentioned Philip Hammond, a lot of talk you are being lined up for his
:27:06. > :27:11.job after the election, have you had any conversations about this? No.
:27:12. > :27:17.Philip Hammond is doing a great job and I'm sure he will continue to do
:27:18. > :27:21.so after the election. Can I address something John said, he said we are
:27:22. > :27:28.not going to borrow anything we will issue bonds, that is how governments
:27:29. > :27:34.borrow money. And it is covered,... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER You issue
:27:35. > :27:39.bonds for shares, the income from assets covers the cost. It's been
:27:40. > :27:49.done by government after government. But it is borrowing. The cost is
:27:50. > :27:55.covered. Do not make this up! That covers, it is covered by the income
:27:56. > :28:01.from those assets. If I take a mortgage on my house I borrow a huge
:28:02. > :28:04.sum of money... These are operational companies that have
:28:05. > :28:11.profits soar those profits will work to cover any cost about borrowing.
:28:12. > :28:15.You are saying it is not borrowing but it is borrowing. I am interested
:28:16. > :28:19.in what you think the economy needs to grow by because John McDonnell
:28:20. > :28:23.was seeing your manifesto has ?40 billion of extra spending hidden
:28:24. > :28:26.inside it which needs to come from somewhere, you have got huge
:28:27. > :28:32.spending commitments which need to come from somewhere, this needs to
:28:33. > :28:36.come from the economy growing... For every level of investment we put in
:28:37. > :28:43.me get an exact return, so it balances out so they become the cost
:28:44. > :28:49.neutral. We funded it, in their manifesto not a single ?. You have
:28:50. > :28:57.not funded a single penny of the National Grid, the rail industry,
:28:58. > :29:02.the water industry... This is fatuous economic talk. What happens
:29:03. > :29:06.is you borrow the money from an asset and then that profitable asset
:29:07. > :29:15.covers the cost. What you do do, in the water industry, ER associate
:29:16. > :29:19.director of a company in the water industry and you made quite a profit
:29:20. > :29:25.from that. ?18 million worth of profits shared out to shareholders,
:29:26. > :29:28.we will take that money instead of using it for dividends for
:29:29. > :29:38.shareholders we are going to use it to cover the cost. THEY TALK OVER
:29:39. > :29:41.EACH OTHER We will use it to cut costs. You do not understand
:29:42. > :29:51.capitalism. THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER You certainly do. THEY TALK
:29:52. > :29:55.OVER EACH OTHER Can I ask one more thing, one thing you have not done
:29:56. > :29:59.is been very clear about what will happen to taxis if the Conservatives
:30:00. > :30:09.are re-elected, is the truth is not that you'll had to put taxes up? Let
:30:10. > :30:15.him answer. We have said we are not going to increase... We can find a
:30:16. > :30:28.lot of things... How are you going to... We will not be clobbering
:30:29. > :30:29.businesses... ?1000 on income tax. The three people still watching are
:30:30. > :31:03.about to turn off, thank you. These days there's no shortage of
:31:04. > :31:08.news from Westminster, on TV online and of course in daily papers. But a
:31:09. > :31:11.few hundred years ago it could be dispatched to the tower for
:31:12. > :31:22.reporting what was said in there.