Amber Rudd

:00:15. > :00:18.The Conservative Amber Rudd. Welcome. A lot of people watching

:00:19. > :00:23.this and remembering what has happened this week will think after

:00:24. > :00:25.Manchester, there has to be a step change, a completely different

:00:26. > :00:31.attitude to security in this country. Do you agree with them? I

:00:32. > :00:33.believe there is information we can gather and there are steps we can

:00:34. > :00:43.take to improve his country's security. The threat level has been

:00:44. > :00:55.severe now sensed 2014, an attack is highly likely. We have made sure

:00:56. > :00:58.that we put the tools in place. There will be as many armed police

:00:59. > :01:04.by the end of this year as there have ever been. We are stepping this

:01:05. > :01:08.up. This has not come out of the blue. We have been preparing for

:01:09. > :01:13.this. And another thing I would like to say is the reason why the

:01:14. > :01:16.handling of this terrible atrocity was done so well in Manchester by

:01:17. > :01:22.the emergency services which I would like to thank and buy everybody

:01:23. > :01:27.involved, the people who volunteer, is because we had rehearsed for it.

:01:28. > :01:33.Let's turn if I made to the latest, as it were. You have downgraded the

:01:34. > :01:36.threat. We have heard that a large part of the group around this

:01:37. > :01:41.terrorist have been apprehended and taken. Does that means of the group

:01:42. > :01:49.are still out there? Potentially. It is an ongoing operation. The

:01:50. > :01:53.operation is at full tilt in a way and until the operation is complete,

:01:54. > :01:59.we cannot be entirely sure that it is closed. The security services to

:02:00. > :02:04.a great job and all the rest of it but there are questions that must be

:02:05. > :02:09.asked. How many times worthy security services tipped off about

:02:10. > :02:12.Salman Abedi before he attacked? It is not for me to be drawn in on what

:02:13. > :02:21.the security services mail or did not know. The fact is this is an

:02:22. > :02:26.ongoing operation. There are other people that are going to be

:02:27. > :02:30.potentially pursued. That is because of the strong relationship between

:02:31. > :02:35.the services. People want to lug afterwards to see if there are

:02:36. > :02:40.signals and how we can do this better but can I also point out that

:02:41. > :02:47.since 2013, they have filed 18 separate props. They do a good job.

:02:48. > :02:57.We are not frightened of learning and improving. Salman Abedi was

:02:58. > :03:00.identified as a dangerous man by his friends on the community. They

:03:01. > :03:07.formed the terror hotline five years ago and again last year. We know the

:03:08. > :03:10.imam in his local mosque use the prevent strategy to get in touch and

:03:11. > :03:14.say this guy is out of control and dangerous and apparently nothing

:03:15. > :03:20.happened. Was Salman Abedi on a surveillance this? I don't know

:03:21. > :03:22.those details because the intelligence services are still

:03:23. > :03:26.collecting information about him and the people around him but I would

:03:27. > :03:32.not rush to conclusions, as you seem to be, that they have somehow missed

:03:33. > :03:36.something. People did from the terror hotline, as they are told to

:03:37. > :03:40.do. The reason we put in place the terror hotline and the prevent

:03:41. > :03:44.strategy is because we recognise the scale of the problem. What this

:03:45. > :03:49.reminds us if we needed reminding is the skill of the problem that we

:03:50. > :03:52.have. The enemy that we have that is trying to weapon eyes the young

:03:53. > :04:00.people in our society. We have put in place measures to make sure that

:04:01. > :04:03.we can protect ourselves but we have been at a level where in an attack

:04:04. > :04:06.is highly likely. The Prime Minister has announced in the manifesto

:04:07. > :04:11.before this event that there would be a commission for extremism to see

:04:12. > :04:15.what else we can do to root out extremism and put legislation in

:04:16. > :04:20.place to make sure we take action to stop extremism taking root in our

:04:21. > :04:28.society. The problem with the manifesto is it now reads like a

:04:29. > :04:33.pre-Manchester manifesto. It doesn't necessarily have the urgency that a

:04:34. > :04:37.lot of people feel is necessary after the Manchester attack. This

:04:38. > :04:41.government has always felt that urgency and that is why we have been

:04:42. > :04:46.putting additional resources and also it is significant that the

:04:47. > :04:48.commission for extremism is in the manifesto was putting me for

:04:49. > :04:53.Manchester. We know that we need to do more. We recognise the scale of

:04:54. > :04:58.the threat. How many serious potential jihadi 's should we be

:04:59. > :05:05.worried about? They are looking at 500 different plots, 3000 on a sort

:05:06. > :05:08.of top list and then 20,000 underneath that but that is all

:05:09. > :05:14.it might just be a question about it might just be a question about

:05:15. > :05:17.one of them or something serious with the topless. What I am

:05:18. > :05:23.wondering is the question of whether Salman Abedi was red flagged at some

:05:24. > :05:29.point. There are Sony people that they have to look at. One thing you

:05:30. > :05:37.could decide to do is a step change in the size of MI5. -- so many

:05:38. > :05:41.people. We won't shy away from finding out what else we can do to

:05:42. > :05:47.keep people safe. The budget has already gone up significantly. We

:05:48. > :05:50.are recruiting 1900 people for MI5 and we will look at this to learn

:05:51. > :05:53.from it and make sure we keep people safe going forward. If there is

:05:54. > :06:00.need for more secure at -- security need for more secure at -- security

:06:01. > :06:06.and recruitment, we will do that. If you win the general election and go

:06:07. > :06:09.back to the Home Office, will it be business as usual or would you say,

:06:10. > :06:17.we need to change this and we need a bigger budget for that? We agreed to

:06:18. > :06:21.uplift the budget to 15 billion. We will make sure we put the right

:06:22. > :06:28.resources into keep the people safe, always. We were talking earlier on

:06:29. > :06:33.about where Salman Abedi, we know he has been to Libya. We think he has

:06:34. > :06:38.been to Syria. How many Jihadis have come back to this country, do you

:06:39. > :06:43.think? We don't know the exact number. Engaging with the sit

:06:44. > :06:51.authorities, we make sure that they have the tools to track them. If

:06:52. > :06:57.somebody comes in from Heathrow, how can we possibly know if they had

:06:58. > :07:02.been to Syria? It is all intelligence led. We have very good

:07:03. > :07:04.intelligence services who help to collect that information to make

:07:05. > :07:11.sure that we follow one track the right people who might be dangerous.

:07:12. > :07:21.The government has introduced temporary extraordinary -- exclusion

:07:22. > :07:25.measures. It is part of the toolkit that the Home Secretary has so that

:07:26. > :07:30.we can keep people safe. Can I move onto some of the other the things

:07:31. > :07:33.that people have speculated. You have an entire strategy in place for

:07:34. > :07:38.trying to pick people up and identify them but you have got rid

:07:39. > :07:42.of Labour's control orders. Under the Labour government, they were

:07:43. > :07:46.highly controversial and they were civil liberties issues but they

:07:47. > :07:52.seemed to be effective. They include curfews and electronic tagging. If

:07:53. > :07:55.Salman Abedi had been subject to that, he would not have been able to

:07:56. > :08:05.carry out the atrocity. We don't have control orders. We use them

:08:06. > :08:09.effectively. We are in constant discussion with the intelligence

:08:10. > :08:12.services and with the police. We need to make sure that we have the

:08:13. > :08:16.right tools that they need and they have the ability to come to me as

:08:17. > :08:17.Home Secretary and for me to sign them off. We will do that where we

:08:18. > :08:34.need to. You have only used TPIMs six or

:08:35. > :08:38.seven times so far. Slightly more than that but I cannot give the

:08:39. > :08:42.exact number. It is for me to say to the intelligence services who will

:08:43. > :08:48.keep us safe, tell me how many you need. What the evidences and we will

:08:49. > :08:51.take them forward. Lord Carlile the former independent reviewer of

:08:52. > :08:55.terror legislation said it was a grave mistake by the coalition

:08:56. > :09:00.government to remove control orders and to produce something he said was

:09:01. > :09:04.more Dialogue. I think that quote might be out of date because Mr

:09:05. > :09:08.Anderson who was also the reviewer has said they represent the Michu

:09:09. > :09:17.evolution following control orders and Max Hill, the reviewer, has told

:09:18. > :09:24.us there is no more legislation needed currently. -- much you were.

:09:25. > :09:26.I think we have the tools in place at the moment. The last and we

:09:27. > :09:30.talked after another terrorist attack in London, we had a

:09:31. > :09:33.discussion about end to end encryption. There was able lotta

:09:34. > :09:38.comment afterwards about what was possible and was not possible. Can I

:09:39. > :09:43.ask you to explain what your proposal is now? We are making

:09:44. > :09:46.progress with the companies. Some of them have been more constructive

:09:47. > :09:50.than others but we will continue to build a map. The area I am most

:09:51. > :09:54.concerned about is the Internet companies who are continuing to

:09:55. > :09:58.publish the hate material that is contributing to radicalising people

:09:59. > :10:05.in this country. I also spoke about setting up an Internet forum. The

:10:06. > :10:10.Prime Minister has agreed to do an international forum. We are

:10:11. > :10:14.continuing to build on better relationships and ask the experts to

:10:15. > :10:16.make those changes so that people don't get radicalised and the

:10:17. > :10:22.terrorists don't have somewhere to hide. The problem with end to end

:10:23. > :10:25.encryption is the software is out there freely available all over the

:10:26. > :10:30.Internet. You can make your own. If a terrorist is using what sat for

:10:31. > :10:35.instance and you make it give you a back door, they can move to another

:10:36. > :10:39.messaging service and then another and another and eventually if you

:10:40. > :10:42.close them all off, then they can build their own. The only way that

:10:43. > :10:48.you can stop this is by banning end to end encryption completely. What

:10:49. > :10:53.we are doing is challenging the people who are delivering to work

:10:54. > :11:00.with us so that we have a way of keeping people safe. Nobody wants

:11:01. > :11:04.terrorists to have a safe place to information and plot atrocities. I

:11:05. > :11:11.believe we can get them to help us get some of that information.

:11:12. > :11:16.Banning end to end encryption would destroy the Internet. It would

:11:17. > :11:23.devastate the Internet economy in this country. Do you understand why

:11:24. > :11:28.people were so shocked? What I have always said is the Internet provides

:11:29. > :11:31.an incredibly important place for people to do business. Encryption is

:11:32. > :11:35.important for banking and everything else but we need to do better to

:11:36. > :11:42.stop terrorists being able to use it. In your interview in the Mail on

:11:43. > :11:44.Sunday, you were asked whether getting a Labour government would

:11:45. > :11:50.lead to more people being killed by terrorists, do you stand by that?

:11:51. > :11:56.Look at the evidence. Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and John McDonnell have

:11:57. > :12:01.a history of not supporting terrorist legislation. Jeremy Corbyn

:12:02. > :12:06.boasted that he opposed all counterterrorism legislation. Diane

:12:07. > :12:11.Abbott gave quite a good account of terrorist legislation which was

:12:12. > :12:15.counter-productive and badly thought through. I thought she gave a very

:12:16. > :12:21.poor account of not being able to engage with banning proscribed

:12:22. > :12:25.organisations. We have banned a far right group as well. What I would

:12:26. > :12:29.say to Diane Abbott is I have changed my hairstyle a few times in

:12:30. > :12:35.the 34 years as well but I have not changed my views about how we keep

:12:36. > :12:45.the British public safe. Let's turn to one election issue, the U-turn on

:12:46. > :12:54.social care. You change the policy radically. It has been an

:12:55. > :12:58.embarrassing U-turn. Is it not taking the British people for falls

:12:59. > :13:02.to pretend there has not been a U-turn? We have been frank about it

:13:03. > :13:05.and we have levelled with people. The Conservative Party is a party

:13:06. > :13:10.that is very frank about these things, unlike the Labour Party. We

:13:11. > :13:16.have put the most important element of that social care policy is we are

:13:17. > :13:20.protecting people's assets and we are making sure that they don't have

:13:21. > :13:24.to move from their house if they are using the equity from it while they

:13:25. > :13:28.are either at home using social care or elsewhere. You said there would

:13:29. > :13:31.not be a cap. After the manifesto was launched, the Health Secretary

:13:32. > :13:35.Jeremy Hunt went on the radio and said we are getting rid of the cap.

:13:36. > :13:40.Is there going to be a cap? The Prime Minister said yes. But we are

:13:41. > :13:44.not sure where the cab was going to be. We have a Green paper to make

:13:45. > :13:50.sure that we said it at the right level. It could be 200,000, 300,000.

:13:51. > :13:53.All those people who are worried about this policy should still be

:13:54. > :13:59.worried until they know the size of the cap. What people should realise

:14:00. > :14:02.is we know that people are living longer. The next decade, there is

:14:03. > :14:06.good to be another 2 million people over 75, which is great news but we

:14:07. > :14:10.have to be frank that this is going to cost money. We have to find a way

:14:11. > :14:14.that is fair for people to pay for it and this is the best way to pay

:14:15. > :14:25.for it. Amber Rudd, thank you very much indeed.