Ben Wallace

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:00:14. > :00:17.Well, the Conservatives have promised a new statutory commission

:00:18. > :00:23.took counter extremism. The party says it will identify extremism,

:00:24. > :00:28.including the non-violent kind and help communities stand up to it. Ben

:00:29. > :00:32.Wallace has attacked the Internet giants of failing to tackle terror

:00:33. > :00:36.online and include -- encouraging them of being ruthless moneymakers.

:00:37. > :00:39.Welcome to the Sunday politics. Those comments that you have made

:00:40. > :00:46.about social media companies failing in their responsibility, what are

:00:47. > :00:49.you going to do to compel them? I think we are going to look at the

:00:50. > :00:53.range of options. The Germans have proposed perhaps a fine. We are not

:00:54. > :00:58.sure whether that will work but there are a range of pressures we

:00:59. > :01:02.can put onto some of these companies. Some of them have

:01:03. > :01:07.complied. In the article today I did say it is not all of them. They are

:01:08. > :01:14.not immune to pressure. We can either do it internationally. Some

:01:15. > :01:17.of these companies are based overseas but I think there are a

:01:18. > :01:23.range of issues. We could change the law. You mentioned the G-7. Rhetoric

:01:24. > :01:29.and warm words are fine but it is action people want. You made these

:01:30. > :01:32.impassioned remarks in the newspapers about them failing to

:01:33. > :01:36.take responsibility. People want to know what powers you actually have

:01:37. > :01:40.now to say to social media companies, take down this material.

:01:41. > :01:46.We have the investigatory Powers act. In this area, we have just

:01:47. > :01:51.finished consulting on one of the measures we could use but we cannot

:01:52. > :01:57.pre-empt the consultation. We have right now officials from my

:01:58. > :02:03.department are over in the United States with American officials

:02:04. > :02:09.working because what we see is they do respond to pressure. The best

:02:10. > :02:13.example is we think they have the technology and the capability to

:02:14. > :02:23.change the algorithms they use that maximises profit over something

:02:24. > :02:28.safety. Have you got any evidence that they are going to do that? Only

:02:29. > :02:34.a few weeks ago before the election was called, we hosted a Round Table

:02:35. > :02:39.with them. We have evidence that they are trying to improve it. There

:02:40. > :02:42.are a few that are being difficult. I am not going to name the man that

:02:43. > :02:46.is why I think the Prime Minister was right to step up not only the

:02:47. > :02:51.language she is using but to say we are not going to allow this to

:02:52. > :02:55.progress. People will be ready about who will make the judgment about

:02:56. > :03:00.what is an acceptable. Let me show you and the viewers this

:03:01. > :03:05.particular... This was shared widely across social media. If you read

:03:06. > :03:12.that quote, I suppose you could argue it is at the tame end. The man

:03:13. > :03:16.in the picture is a terrorist hate preacher. Would be the sort of thing

:03:17. > :03:21.you would be demanding social media companies take down? I think you

:03:22. > :03:28.have to look at the context it is deployed in. I could show you some

:03:29. > :03:35.of the 200 and -- 200,000 pieces we have had removed which are extreme.

:03:36. > :03:41.It is not often the individual image, it is the way these companies

:03:42. > :03:45.set up their algorithms to link you. If you are watching that on

:03:46. > :03:51.Facebook, delivered to you will be perhaps you'd like to look at this

:03:52. > :03:55.because that is how they set it up. If you going to YouTube and I put in

:03:56. > :04:01.Manchester, you can get led down a path to watching more and more... I

:04:02. > :04:05.understand the logic of your argument. At a practical level, are

:04:06. > :04:14.you expecting social media companies to take down that sort of post if it

:04:15. > :04:18.appeared? Yes. Who is going to make the decisions about what is going to

:04:19. > :04:24.radicalise young people that could lead someone down the path to then

:04:25. > :04:29.let off a bomb? If I invite your viewers to look at the work the

:04:30. > :04:35.Guardian have done on Facebook widens. It is okayed to produce

:04:36. > :04:39.videos or broadcast videos of seven-year-olds being bullied as

:04:40. > :04:43.long as it was not accompanied by captions, I don't think you need to

:04:44. > :04:47.be a government minister or an expert to say that is unacceptable.

:04:48. > :04:52.Something more worrying for you as a journalist, another set of guidance

:04:53. > :04:55.that says this is quite menacing but this is the mindset we have to deal

:04:56. > :05:01.with, that says that certain people don't deserve our protection, is the

:05:02. > :05:03.exact quote and that includes journalists and politicians and

:05:04. > :05:08.people that are controversial. There is more work to be done but it is

:05:09. > :05:13.the pathway that this stuff leads to. It is more about examining what

:05:14. > :05:17.powers you have and how much progress you will be able to make.

:05:18. > :05:24.The government says there are up to 23,000 terrorist attack is in this

:05:25. > :05:32.country. 3000 of those a serious threat. 20,000 are considered as

:05:33. > :05:38.residual risks. These are big numbers. They are and what the

:05:39. > :05:41.tragedy of Manchester shows us is this is not about failings, this is

:05:42. > :05:45.the scale of the challenge we face and it is why it is absolutely

:05:46. > :05:53.important that alongside people is powers. Should you double the size

:05:54. > :06:00.of MFI for example? We have increased year-on-year in real terms

:06:01. > :06:07.the number of people in MI5. It is now 2000 we have committed to

:06:08. > :06:12.increase too. That was before the attack. We have increased the whole

:06:13. > :06:23.of government spending from ?11.7 billion in 2010 at two 15.7 billion.

:06:24. > :06:26.In my discussions with the director-general of MI5 and his

:06:27. > :06:29.deputies and all the other people I meet, I ask them on a regular basis

:06:30. > :06:35.if they have the resources they are happy with and the answer comes

:06:36. > :06:38.back, yes, we are. Let's have a look at some of the powers. You have

:06:39. > :06:43.quite extensive powers at your disposal but the question is, are

:06:44. > :06:48.you using them? Terrorism measures were introduced in 2012 to replace

:06:49. > :07:00.control orders but they have rarely been used. There are a whole... They

:07:01. > :07:03.are just one tool in the tool box. Other powers we use, we take away

:07:04. > :07:10.people's passport if we think they are about to travel. I cannot

:07:11. > :07:16.comment on that number, it is a sensitive issue. Plenty of people

:07:17. > :07:19.are currently finding that their passport has been removed and that

:07:20. > :07:22.the same time, we strip people of citizenship if they have another

:07:23. > :07:25.citizenship elsewhere to make sure they don't come back to this

:07:26. > :07:33.country. Because of the investment we have made, we have more powers

:07:34. > :07:47.and more ability to monitor them. I have used the example... Only seven

:07:48. > :07:51.are currently operating. If they are only in single figures, that doesn't

:07:52. > :07:59.seem to compare with the numbers who are being monitored. No, also we

:08:00. > :08:02.have to strike a balance... We have to do two things. We have to satisfy

:08:03. > :08:14.the court and make sure there is enough evidence to restrict people's

:08:15. > :08:21.freedoms. Are they as good as control orders? They are and I tell

:08:22. > :08:25.you why they are better. The control orders were on track to be struck

:08:26. > :08:28.down by the courts because as I said one of the things we have two

:08:29. > :08:32.satisfies the courts but the other thing is we have to make sure we

:08:33. > :08:36.keep the balance between the community is right and the measures

:08:37. > :08:44.we take. If we alienate communities, we won't get the intelligence. There

:08:45. > :08:47.is no point having more police if you're given the powers to do the

:08:48. > :08:58.job. Jeremy Corbyn consistently voted against that. He would... Ben

:08:59. > :09:28.Wallace. Thank you. When in London, there are a few

:09:29. > :09:34.landmarks in every tourist must see. Westminster Abbey, Nelson 's column,

:09:35. > :09:40.Buckingham Palace. And of course the Houses of Parliament, including Big

:09:41. > :09:46.Ben. But it is not the name of the clock or even the tower, it is just

:09:47. > :09:49.the name of the bell. Until recently, the tower was simply known

:09:50. > :09:50.as the clock tower but now