:00:14. > :00:19.A lot of people who are only half of paying attention to the campaign
:00:20. > :00:23.thought it was in the bag for the Tories, but now the polls have been
:00:24. > :00:28.closing a bit, they have do focus on the real possibility of Jeremy
:00:29. > :00:35.Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. That means almost certainly with Diane
:00:36. > :00:38.Abbott in Home Office. Many watching this after Manchester, thinking
:00:39. > :00:43.about who to vote for, look at you and Jeremy Corbyn and think we do
:00:44. > :00:48.not completely trust you to be in charge of the security given what
:00:49. > :00:53.you have said and done in the past. You can take a moment to talk to
:00:54. > :00:56.them and tell them why they are wrong. Before we move on to the
:00:57. > :01:01.politics of it, I think it is too soon to forget the victims. 22
:01:02. > :01:05.people are dead and so many people, families and children who have seen
:01:06. > :01:10.things that will haunt them for many years. I think it is important to
:01:11. > :01:17.say that. In terms of why people should vote Labour in the general
:01:18. > :01:21.election, they should vote Labour because we have put forward a
:01:22. > :01:27.manifesto that will be transforming the manifesto investing in the NHS,
:01:28. > :01:32.in education and is also seeing how we would defend it. Before we go on
:01:33. > :01:38.to that, I want to ask about your own record and saying I do not trust
:01:39. > :01:43.Diane Abbott to be in charge of the Home Office. First of all, I think
:01:44. > :01:46.there is something to be said for a Home Secretary who is actually
:01:47. > :01:50.worked in the Home Office. I worked in the Home Office for nearly three
:01:51. > :01:54.years as a graduate trainee and I know how it works from the inside. I
:01:55. > :02:00.think there is something to be said for a Home Secretary who is a young
:02:01. > :02:04.woman who worked and campaigned with diverse communities and sees these
:02:05. > :02:09.issues as not just from the view of Democrats but from diverse treaties
:02:10. > :02:13.and there is something to be said for a Home Secretary who spent 30
:02:14. > :02:20.years as a constituency MP and knows how these issues work for ordinary
:02:21. > :02:27.people. What about someone who has said that we should abolish MI5? I
:02:28. > :02:34.think you have got back from... You signed in 1989... I can read it back
:02:35. > :02:36.to. She called for the abolition of conspiratorial groups like MI5 and
:02:37. > :02:43.Special Branch which are not accountable to the British people.
:02:44. > :02:47.Signed by about. At the time I felt MI5 needed reforming. It has since
:02:48. > :02:54.been reformed and I would not call for it to be got rid of now. So that
:02:55. > :02:59.Diane Abbott has gone and you support MI5? I'm saying that MI5 has
:03:00. > :03:03.gone. It is a different MI5 and that is why so many of us can support it
:03:04. > :03:09.now. And you fully support it, because also in your career, you
:03:10. > :03:15.have voted around 30 times against anti-terrorist legislation. What you
:03:16. > :03:19.have to remember is on many of those occasions I and Jeremy Corbyn were
:03:20. > :03:25.going through the lobby with Tory MPs. Theresa May herself voted
:03:26. > :03:36.against the 2005 invention of terrorism Bill, she voted against ID
:03:37. > :03:41.cards and against the... Nobody votes against it these things
:03:42. > :03:44.without a lot of thought. And the view of myself and Jeremy and Ms
:03:45. > :03:50.numbers of the Conservative Party including David Davis at the time
:03:51. > :03:54.was this counter-productive, counter terrorism legislation. Some of the
:03:55. > :03:58.positions we voted for work held up in the courts. You said nobody votes
:03:59. > :04:04.against the beings without a lot of thought. Just before 911, you voted
:04:05. > :04:09.against subscribing Al-Qaeda as an organisation. That was a huge
:04:10. > :04:16.mistake on your part. Have you read the legislation we are voting on? I
:04:17. > :04:21.have. What the legislation broke forward with a whole list of
:04:22. > :04:28.organisations, some of which some people would argue are not terrorist
:04:29. > :04:36.organisations. To say that because... Which ones? Al-Qaeda,
:04:37. > :04:45.Egyptian Islamic jihad, The Armed Islamic Group, The Liberation Tigers
:04:46. > :04:55.Of Tamil, The Islamic Jihad Grip, The Kurdistan Workers Party. . The
:04:56. > :04:59.reality of some of those groups, whether they were dissidents in
:05:00. > :05:07.their country of origin, and that is why some of us... Had they taken
:05:08. > :05:09.Al-Qaeda as one thing... This is a group of really dangerous
:05:10. > :05:14.organisations from all over the world who have killed a lot of
:05:15. > :05:20.people. This group carried out the Mumbai attacks that killed more than
:05:21. > :05:23.117 people. No list is perfect, but it was a pretty good list and you
:05:24. > :05:28.voted against prescribing those groups. Because there were groups
:05:29. > :05:32.that I did deemed to be dissidents rather than terror organisations.
:05:33. > :05:37.You have to give people credit for thinking about how they vote. As I
:05:38. > :05:40.said, we're hearing about all this anti-terror legislation that Jeremy
:05:41. > :05:47.and I voted against, but we're not hearing that the Tories voted
:05:48. > :05:52.against the same legislation. There is the list. Which of the
:05:53. > :05:55.organisations should not have been ascribed? You voted against the
:05:56. > :06:00.whole lot been prescribed because you thought somewhere OK. Which ones
:06:01. > :06:05.do you think are OK? It is not that I thought they were OK. I thought
:06:06. > :06:11.they were dissident organisations. I do not need it, and you, because the
:06:12. > :06:16.point is less than a week after those people died in Manchester, we
:06:17. > :06:21.should be talking about going forward to make this country safe.
:06:22. > :06:24.But to go forward, we have to look behind and look at people's record.
:06:25. > :06:27.That is why we are talking about you. Jeremy Corbyn got in some
:06:28. > :06:32.trouble with his interview because he said he had not met the IRA, but
:06:33. > :06:38.he was 40 craft with many during his career. You said a defeat for the
:06:39. > :06:44.British state would be a great liberation, Eamon forward. Do regret
:06:45. > :06:50.your support for the IRA? That particular quote is from a now
:06:51. > :06:58.defunct left newspaper and it had as well as... It was 34 years ago, I
:06:59. > :07:03.had a rather splendid Afro at the time, I do not have the same
:07:04. > :07:08.hairstyle, I do not have the same views. It is 34 years on. The
:07:09. > :07:18.hairstyle is gone and some have the views of corn. -- the views have
:07:19. > :07:24.gone. Still you do not regret? The hairstyle has gone, the views have
:07:25. > :07:28.gone. Do you regret what you said about the IRA at the height of the
:07:29. > :07:34.bombings? What specifically do you want me to regret? I can read the
:07:35. > :07:44.quote. What you said was that 80 feet of the IRA would be devastating
:07:45. > :07:47.for the British people. You said the reason for the violence was entirely
:07:48. > :07:51.caused by the British presence in Northern Ireland. To think those
:07:52. > :07:57.statements are now wrong? It was many years ago. I have moved on. You
:07:58. > :08:03.said that Ireland is our struggle. Every defeat of the British state is
:08:04. > :08:08.a victory for all of us. 34 years ago and I have moved on. Within a
:08:09. > :08:12.few weeks, you could be Home Secretary and one of the things we
:08:13. > :08:16.know from Amber Rudd is she spends to hours a day signing orders
:08:17. > :08:20.approving the surveillance of individual people. Would you be
:08:21. > :08:23.prepared to sit therein do that? Of course! Of the evidence was
:08:24. > :08:28.presented to me. I know how these things work. If the file that was
:08:29. > :08:37.imprint of me, I will sign for surveillance. That is part of the
:08:38. > :08:40.job. Another big issue, encrypted services on WhatsApp and other
:08:41. > :08:47.mobile messaging devices. Due oppose all support forcing those companies
:08:48. > :08:53.to show what they are doing? I think the problem is they are American
:08:54. > :08:59.companies and they feel strongly about the right to free speech. We
:09:00. > :09:02.do have to do work with them to you have access to these messages where
:09:03. > :09:06.it is an issue about end-to-end encryption. We have do work with
:09:07. > :09:13.them. If they will not cooperate, we will have two can sit what further
:09:14. > :09:15.action to take. Given the tragedy am Manchester, I would hope they would
:09:16. > :09:21.want to work with the British Government. Reported in today's
:09:22. > :09:25.papers, as recently as 2010, you told a dinner party we should not
:09:26. > :09:28.put innocent people's DNA on the database and we should not have
:09:29. > :09:36.guilty people on that database again. Do you still support that
:09:37. > :09:41.statement? I'm also its constituency MP and I had to deal with some very
:09:42. > :09:47.difficult cases of children who were not convicted of anything who had
:09:48. > :09:51.their DNA on the database and I had a huge struggle to have their DNA
:09:52. > :10:01.taken. We do need to be careful about taking children's DNA. But did
:10:02. > :10:08.you did not use the word children now. Added time, about a child,
:10:09. > :10:14.whose DNA had been taken. In terms of retaining a strong DNA database,
:10:15. > :10:19.IU in favour or against it. I'm in favour of the DNA deck to base. I'm
:10:20. > :10:26.not in the favour of keeping the DNA of children who have committed no
:10:27. > :10:30.crime. So the DNA should be kept of those who have committed a crime?
:10:31. > :10:34.Let's move on. One of the big announcements has been lots more
:10:35. > :10:38.officers, including another thousand people for the security services.
:10:39. > :10:45.They are now increasing by a thousand after David Cameron 's
:10:46. > :10:52.buttons marked the 1000 has not been recruited. They are not recruiting
:10:53. > :10:57.them yet. We want to recruit 10,000 extra police officers, community
:10:58. > :11:04.police officers because we think community policing is key. We want
:11:05. > :11:11.to recruit more firefighters, 3000 extra prison officers 1000, as you
:11:12. > :11:16.say, people in the security field and more bodyguards because we think
:11:17. > :11:25.protecting our borders is so important. How much extra will you
:11:26. > :11:30.spend on MI5. We are not spending extra because the Government has put
:11:31. > :11:46.the money aside. So this is announcement at all? It is part of
:11:47. > :11:50.our security's the reason we had to the's on Theresa's watch, there are
:11:51. > :12:03.20,000 police officers down. So the cost of the entire package
:12:04. > :12:09.Thank you very much indeed. In the Labour Party manifesto, it says
:12:10. > :12:17.freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union. Are you in
:12:18. > :12:24.support of that policy? Freedom of movement obviously ends when we
:12:25. > :12:32.leave the EU. If we leave the European Union,, what we should be
:12:33. > :12:36.talking about is the immigration we have when freedom of movement ends.
:12:37. > :12:41.There is no question that it ends on we come out of the European Union.
:12:42. > :12:49.You have said ending free movement has been a synonym for
:12:50. > :12:55.anti-immigration racism. I don't think you're reading the manifesto
:12:56. > :13:01.properly. Of course, I think that anti-immigrant rhetoric is toxic and
:13:02. > :13:07.very bad for business. We are seeing the numbers of EU migrants going
:13:08. > :13:11.down at a time when we are 24,000 nurses short. Anti-immigrant
:13:12. > :13:16.rhetoric is unpleasant but also bad for the economy. On freedom of
:13:17. > :13:22.movement, freedom of movement ends when we come out of the EU. If you
:13:23. > :13:27.become Home Secretary, you will be the first black person in the any of
:13:28. > :13:31.the major home offices of state. Will you run it differently in terms
:13:32. > :13:37.of its attitude to racism and communities and so on? I will run
:13:38. > :13:43.the best Home Office that I can. I will draw on my experience, having
:13:44. > :13:48.worked there. I will draw on my experience at the grassroots. We
:13:49. > :13:52.will have the best Home Office that I can run, which will draw on some
:13:53. > :13:56.of the Home Office 's best traditions and above all, we'll keep
:13:57. > :14:12.this country safe. Thanks very much indeed for talking to us.
:14:13. > :14:23.Waiting for your mate to wake up after a sleepover.