:00:03. > :00:13.Honourable Gentleman and members that wish to make it will be
:00:13. > :00:19.
:00:19. > :00:23.considered at that time of consideration. It's a if -- the
:00:23. > :00:31.Government is keen it you find new ways to scrutinise European Union
:00:31. > :00:36.issues. It's as the Government and would welcome proposals from other
:00:36. > :00:41.parliamentarians. In a written reply I understand that the
:00:41. > :00:51.Government is keen to end gold plating of the key directors but
:00:51. > :00:52.
:00:52. > :00:57.the only way of doing so is granting MPs the power to amend a
:00:57. > :01:07.statutory implementation. Is there something that the government will
:01:07. > :01:14.
:01:14. > :01:22.approve? I think the problem is that we will need a reconciliation
:01:22. > :01:27.process and what we have is a bill going through parliamentary
:01:27. > :01:33.procedures. There are some difficulties in what she proposes
:01:33. > :01:37.but I will pass her concerns on to the Minister for Europe. During the
:01:37. > :01:41.last two years of the parliament the opposition row against the fact
:01:41. > :01:46.that the structure of the standing committees had collapsed. There
:01:46. > :01:54.used to be put in nine committees - a rogue members on three committees
:01:54. > :01:58.that would -- do in a Members on three committees that would discuss
:01:58. > :02:02.things like this and it is time to put people back on those committees
:02:02. > :02:10.to learn the business of Europe before they stand up and open their
:02:10. > :02:20.mouths. I will not comment on the latter's observations made by the
:02:20. > :02:20.
:02:20. > :02:24.gentleman but he is right. That is why I am sure the minister for
:02:24. > :02:28.Europe is a very much engaged in talking to him and his colleagues
:02:28. > :02:37.to make sure that we get the pro- military structures right and as
:02:38. > :02:42.soon as possible. It's -- parliamentary structures. For what
:02:42. > :02:46.action up are the Government taking a say in response to what is going
:02:46. > :02:50.on at Southern Cross? Government has made it very clear
:02:50. > :02:55.that the welfare of residents living in Southern Cross homes is
:02:55. > :03:00.paramount. We appreciate that recent events and media speculation
:03:00. > :03:04.has caused concern to people in the Southern Cross care homes and to
:03:04. > :03:08.staff and I regret that. I would like to reassure everyone that no
:03:08. > :03:12.one will find themselves homeless are without care. The government
:03:12. > :03:16.will not stand by and let that happen. Department of Health
:03:16. > :03:20.officials have been a constant contact with senior management over
:03:20. > :03:24.the last few months and that will continue. We are engaged with the
:03:24. > :03:28.company and are monitoring the situation very closely. The
:03:28. > :03:33.Government is acting to ensure that all parties involved are working
:03:33. > :03:38.towards a swift revolution -- resolution which must have the
:03:38. > :03:41.welfare of a residence at its heart. It is for Southern Cross, a
:03:41. > :03:46.flamboyant and those with an interest in the business to put in
:03:46. > :03:51.place a plan that is jaws operational continuity of the care
:03:51. > :03:55.homes. That work is happening and we must let it continue. This is a
:03:55. > :04:01.commercial sector problem and we look to the commercial sector to
:04:01. > :04:04.solve it. All the business interest involve fully understands the
:04:04. > :04:09.responsibility. But it is also the case that the Government has a role
:04:09. > :04:16.to play as well and that is why we are working closely with the
:04:16. > :04:19.Association of Directors of adult social services and local parties
:04:19. > :04:27.to -- local of parties to make sure that robust arrangements are in
:04:27. > :04:34.place to address the restructuring plan meant to put in place a
:04:34. > :04:41.business on a stable footing. Yesterday there was a meeting would
:04:41. > :04:47.delay a Lloyd's and other members and they agreed on May things. They
:04:47. > :04:51.made clear that the continuity will be maintained and every resident
:04:51. > :04:55.will be looked after. This is a welcome development and the
:04:55. > :04:59.Government is encouraged by this positive agreement by the main
:04:59. > :05:03.stakeholders. The exact details will be set out every the next few
:05:03. > :05:08.days and the following weeks. I think the joint statement issued
:05:08. > :05:13.yesterday by the company provides further reassurance that the
:05:13. > :05:16.continuity of care of the residents is at the centre of its consensual
:05:16. > :05:26.restructure. The Government will continue to keep close contact with
:05:26. > :05:31.all involved and I will continue to In recent months we have seen a
:05:31. > :05:35.drip, drip of new stories about the financial stability at Southern
:05:35. > :05:40.Cross. After yesterday's meeting with the landlords the company's
:05:40. > :05:45.future is still uncertain. However residents of Southern Cross, their
:05:45. > :05:50.relatives and the director of social services will need further
:05:50. > :05:55.information Suton -- sooner rather than an later. What next? Residents
:05:55. > :05:59.and their relatives need peace of mind, they need it now. The company
:05:59. > :06:05.appears to be hanging by a thread, the number speak for themselves. It
:06:06. > :06:15.is reported half year losses of �311 million since 2006 per share
:06:16. > :06:16.
:06:16. > :06:21.prices drop by 91st -- 97%. There are 31,000 residents and 750 care
:06:21. > :06:24.homes and this is a UK problem with 400 consider disease affected in
:06:24. > :06:30.Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England. The Government has
:06:30. > :06:33.been too slow to get a grip on the situation. Issues has been since
:06:33. > :06:38.last December but Age Concern say the Government has allowed it to
:06:38. > :06:43.reach this crisis point. Questions that need answering include,
:06:43. > :06:48.newspaper reports say 20 million is owed by HMRC by Southern Cross,
:06:48. > :06:53.will the Government allowed the company to be dragged down by this
:06:53. > :06:59.�20 million that? What banks borrowed money and how much is owed
:06:59. > :07:09.and what action will the banks take? How is the company working
:07:09. > :07:10.
:07:10. > :07:15.with the landlords? What is the government doing to ensure
:07:15. > :07:21.financial probity in this crucial sector? We need to stop the get
:07:21. > :07:25.rich quick merchants brink on our elderly relatives? Can ask the
:07:25. > :07:30.Minister who will lead on this very at the highest level, this is a
:07:30. > :07:35.cross Government matter needing health, business and regulatory
:07:35. > :07:38.intervention. We need reassurance that residents would be safe in
:07:38. > :07:42.their homes, the continuing care will be of the high standard and in
:07:42. > :07:47.the coming months, the Government is focus on ensuring stable,
:07:47. > :07:52.financial Government's with these companies for the care of our old
:07:52. > :07:56.and a vulnerable. There are reign number of questions
:07:56. > :08:01.at their, so of which are for ministers and some are for the
:08:01. > :08:05.landlords. He asked about NHP? He is right to identify the fact NHP
:08:05. > :08:08.it largest landlord and asked about bank lending and the lenders have a
:08:08. > :08:11.key part to play in the sovereignty restriction of this business and
:08:11. > :08:17.that is why they were at the meeting yesterday and he asked
:08:17. > :08:21.about the he HMRC and the body responsible making for these
:08:21. > :08:25.decisions they are making decisions at the moment. We have about the
:08:25. > :08:29.financial problems and the seeds of those financial problems? I would
:08:29. > :08:32.urge the honour would gentleman in look at a history of this to look
:08:33. > :08:36.back several years to the restructuring of this company and
:08:36. > :08:40.the business model was established that caused the problem and asked
:08:40. > :08:45.himself who was in Government at that time?
:08:45. > :08:49.Does My honourable friend agree the government has just one priority in
:08:49. > :08:54.this set of circumstances and that is to secured the interests of
:08:54. > :08:59.residence. Can he reassure the House, he will send a clear message
:08:59. > :09:03.into the system there will be zero tolerance of any slippage of the
:09:03. > :09:09.quality conditions that what are -- that are imposed on the providers
:09:09. > :09:12.of care and he will continue to keep his eyes firmly focused on the
:09:12. > :09:16.day by day quality of care that is delivered to the residents of these
:09:16. > :09:21.homes? He is right. That is the
:09:21. > :09:23.Government's paramount interest and it is the interest of all of us to
:09:23. > :09:28.ensure the welfare and interests of the residence of these homes and
:09:28. > :09:35.that is why that has been the message I have been given to
:09:35. > :09:38.Southern Cross and to the landlords and will continue to do so and see
:09:38. > :09:43.QC will have the responsibility it is carried out. It is clear all of
:09:43. > :09:48.us in this House have to ensure that this restructuring takes place
:09:48. > :09:51.successfully and that is in the best long-term interest of the
:09:51. > :09:55.residents. Her would like to thank the
:09:55. > :10:01.Minister for his statement and congratulate the Member for being
:10:01. > :10:04.granted this urgent question on this issue of great importance.
:10:05. > :10:09.This is not the first time members have tried to bring the Minister
:10:09. > :10:14.there for them to respond to their concern of of leadership and
:10:14. > :10:18.information during this period of uncertainty and anxiety for
:10:18. > :10:23.residents and their families and the employers has been notable and
:10:23. > :10:28.as a result of the agreement we have a period of relative stability
:10:28. > :10:31.but great uncertainty remains for residents and employees. We've
:10:31. > :10:35.heard Southern Cross will now begin a period of restructuring from the
:10:35. > :10:41.report of around 300 homes changing management but contracts have been
:10:41. > :10:44.ripped up and 3,000 jobs are being lost. Water shares can the Minister
:10:44. > :10:48.give for security of employment for those working at Southern Cross and
:10:48. > :10:52.safety, last we we heard Southern Cross as a result of making 3,000
:10:52. > :10:57.people redundant there we have heard from the quality care
:10:57. > :11:03.commission that Southern Cross has breached standards in 164 care
:11:03. > :11:09.homes, 20% of the English estate, can the Minister guarantee the
:11:09. > :11:12.safety of the residents? Will they carry out more frequent inspections.
:11:12. > :11:17.There's been widespread condemnation of the business
:11:17. > :11:21.practices that led to Southern Cross financial problems and is OK
:11:21. > :11:25.to point fingers of what may have happened many years ago but the
:11:25. > :11:30.problem exists now and the Minister is in Government now. The question
:11:30. > :11:33.is, when people are treated as commodities were no thought to the
:11:33. > :11:37.consequences of them in this risky business model it is important that
:11:37. > :11:41.governments set up to the plate and do something about it. Southern
:11:41. > :11:45.Cross is not the only company in this industry to have financial
:11:45. > :11:49.difficulties and we have heard from the business secretary that the
:11:49. > :11:52.model will be looked at by his department and will the Minister
:11:52. > :11:58.provide more details on timings of this review and how members will be
:11:58. > :12:01.told about its findings. Cuts, the Minister says that there will be
:12:01. > :12:06.robust local arrangements and they agree sure local authorities will
:12:06. > :12:10.step up to the plate if asked but he must recognise local authorities
:12:10. > :12:13.are under enormous straight as a result of the cuts imposed by his
:12:13. > :12:17.Government and the cuts they are having to make to adult social care
:12:17. > :12:21.and how can they be expected to pick up the pieces of this national
:12:21. > :12:30.problem without assistance from Government and given more resources
:12:30. > :12:33.to be able to deal with the problem at Southern Cross.
:12:33. > :12:39.She was long on critique but shallow when it comes to the ways
:12:39. > :12:44.in which she would approach to this. Last week I set out in a return
:12:44. > :12:48.Minister a statement reproach the Government was taking and we also
:12:48. > :12:52.dole with this in health questions last week. She asked about the
:12:52. > :12:56.3,000 job losses that are being proposed as part of redundancy
:12:56. > :13:02.measures and let us be clear they have an obligation to declare the
:13:02. > :13:06.ceiling in terms of number of job losses that may take place. I have
:13:06. > :13:11.asked the see QC to take additional inspections to address concerns
:13:11. > :13:14.arising from those job losses. She talks about cuts in social care
:13:14. > :13:18.spending and glosses over the fact this Government through the
:13:18. > :13:24.spending review agreed to an unprecedented transfer of resources
:13:24. > :13:28.from the NHS to social care, 2 billion extra into social care by
:13:28. > :13:33.2014. Perhaps the area we might have some agreement is we need to
:13:33. > :13:37.learn lessons from all that is currently occurring with regard to
:13:37. > :13:40.Southern Cross, regulation, how we make sure we have a stable and
:13:40. > :13:44.successful social care sector in the future and that is why the
:13:44. > :13:52.Government is completed -- committed to an overhaul into
:13:52. > :13:57.should wear -- social care. Would he grew the real fundamental
:13:57. > :14:00.problem here is there was a flawed business model and that was allowed
:14:00. > :14:07.to exist for far too long and certainly during the last
:14:07. > :14:10.Government? You are right to draw attention to
:14:10. > :14:14.that and his is one of the things commented on by the financial pages
:14:14. > :14:18.of our media that is one of the reasons we are in a position with
:14:18. > :14:22.this company now on why such a restructuring is necessary. I take
:14:22. > :14:26.heart from a joint statement issued yesterday from an the meeting
:14:26. > :14:31.between the landlords, the company and between the lenders which does
:14:31. > :14:35.not suggest there is a clear map be worked out that will ensure the
:14:35. > :14:39.continuity of care and that is what all members of this House must want
:14:39. > :14:48.to happen because we must be interested ultimately in the
:14:48. > :14:53.welfare and interested of the Isn't it clear that the business
:14:53. > :14:59.model employed at Southern Cross, selling off properties at colossal
:14:59. > :15:05.profit and then leasing them back, with the state played -- paying the
:15:05. > :15:10.fees to meet the rent, with the rental income being siphoned off by
:15:10. > :15:16.beat -- the landlords into tax havens, leaving the home is grossly
:15:16. > :15:22.underfunded and failing basic CQC standards in 164 homes, is that not
:15:22. > :15:25.a national disgrace? Does it not mean or so that the Prime
:15:25. > :15:34.Minister's commitment to selling off all public services to any
:15:34. > :15:38.willing provider must be abandoned? Well, I think we need to perhaps
:15:38. > :15:43.have an important reality check when it comes to the social care
:15:43. > :15:47.sector. About 78 % of care provided in England is provided in the
:15:47. > :15:57.private sector and that is not something that has happened in the
:15:57. > :16:01.past 12 months. What we do have to do in the light of the experience
:16:01. > :16:07.of the last few months is to make sure that we draw lessons from that.
:16:07. > :16:16.But we have to be focused on now the paramount interest of the
:16:16. > :16:23.residents. Can I thank the Minister for the information he has given
:16:23. > :16:29.the House. The there are two homes in my constituency and this is a
:16:29. > :16:34.matter of great concern to the residents and also the start and
:16:34. > :16:39.there -- and their morale. Can I urge my honourable friend to
:16:39. > :16:44.facilitate as best he can a speedy resolution but also to look at the
:16:44. > :16:48.model that we expect local authorities to adopt book-buying
:16:49. > :16:58.care, the residents themselves should be more involved in the
:16:59. > :17:07.
:17:07. > :17:10.process. I am grateful for that question and it points for the need
:17:10. > :17:14.for greater personalisation in the way that care is delivered in the
:17:14. > :17:18.longer run but what we need to do at the moment is make sure that in
:17:18. > :17:27.concert with local authority colleagues we are clear about what
:17:27. > :17:34.happens in the event of failure but also we ensure that there our
:17:34. > :17:40.successes. I think a lot of people know that it has been a licence to
:17:40. > :17:47.print money, running care homes. This is the second time in about a
:17:47. > :17:51.fortnight that we have had a case like Winterbourne. There are
:17:51. > :17:57.billionaire's making a ton of money. However, there is now evidence that
:17:57. > :18:06.it is not just Southern Cross. The goose might have stopped laying the
:18:06. > :18:10.golden eggs. It is time to go back to what we had in the old days,
:18:10. > :18:15.local authorities being in charge and owning these care homes. Let's
:18:15. > :18:24.get back to that. What's more, wouldn't it be wonderful as well if
:18:24. > :18:28.we had everybody being able to go to hospital free of charge? I think
:18:28. > :18:31.it is important to put on record something that the honourable
:18:31. > :18:37.gentleman said that is not and never has been the case. Social
:18:37. > :18:40.care in this country is not free. It is one of the inequities of the
:18:41. > :18:46.current system and one of the challenges that we are determined
:18:46. > :18:53.to address. On his direct question about the good old days, I have to
:18:53. > :19:00.say that for many, they did not see those days because the care was not
:19:00. > :19:06.personalised or always good quality. To say something more about the
:19:06. > :19:10.specific steps he is taking to ensure that the Ku -- the CQC
:19:10. > :19:20.ensures that standards of care in homes in my constituency are
:19:20. > :19:21.
:19:21. > :19:25.maintained during this transaction period. -- transition. That is, I
:19:25. > :19:32.think, a key preoccupation for all members of this House who have
:19:32. > :19:36.residents in homes owned by Southern Cross. We have been clear
:19:36. > :19:41.in our discussions with the CQC that they have to maintain a clear
:19:41. > :19:48.focus on the behaviour and conduct of these homes during this
:19:48. > :19:52.restructuring period. CQC has already identified issues and is
:19:52. > :19:58.addressing them through its enforcement powers. The Minister
:19:58. > :20:04.will know that many residents of Southern Cross homes have dementia.
:20:04. > :20:07.He will also know that many people with dementia cope poorly with
:20:07. > :20:12.changes and therefore it is of enormous concern to the relatives
:20:12. > :20:17.of what might happen. He must have had these discussions with his
:20:17. > :20:21.officials. What is the legal conditioned -- position, what is
:20:21. > :20:26.the backdrop if the worst case scenario develops, what will he do
:20:26. > :20:29.to reassure my constituents that the government really will make
:20:29. > :20:32.sure that their relatives are not put in a position where they will
:20:32. > :20:42.have changes which will dramatically affect the quality of
:20:42. > :20:44.
:20:44. > :20:48.their light? She posed three questions but I know there will be
:20:48. > :20:54.an immaculate single reply. assurance I can give the honourable
:20:54. > :20:58.lady is that first and foremost we need to make sure that in the event
:20:58. > :21:07.of a catastrophic failure that there are clear arrangements in
:21:07. > :21:09.place to deal with that. Those importantly we need to learn
:21:09. > :21:14.lessons from past care home closures to ensure that those are
:21:14. > :21:19.taken into account in the future. What we can also be clear about is
:21:19. > :21:22.that the viability of this business is very strong indeed. We need care
:21:22. > :21:28.homes and this is why Eddie Izzard, Kriss Akabusi, Martin Bell and Greg
:21:28. > :21:38.Dyke is now a route which sets us on a Cork -- Road to having a
:21:38. > :21:39.
:21:39. > :21:43.solution. It would be wrong if anybody tried to use this as a
:21:44. > :21:49.political shield to try to make cheap political points, but can the
:21:49. > :21:53.Minister tell us a, given that there will be up to 3,000 job
:21:53. > :21:58.losses, what measures will the government be taking to monitor the
:21:58. > :22:04.quality of care in individual homes to make sure that there is no
:22:04. > :22:08.negative impact on residents. asks a very important question
:22:08. > :22:14.about the quality of care and its impact is there mack were staff
:22:14. > :22:19.losses and that is why that when it became clear that the company was
:22:19. > :22:24.posting 3,000 redundancies I asked the CQC to look into that and make
:22:25. > :22:31.sure that there is no impact on the quality of care. What is the
:22:31. > :22:35.Minister doing to beef up the CQC? I understand there have been a
:22:35. > :22:42.number of redundancies there. If he wants to maintain the quality of
:22:42. > :22:46.care, he has to be -- beef up the commission. Does he also know that
:22:46. > :22:53.recently the Telegraph investigated an investigation in 10 homes which
:22:53. > :22:58.were found to be very wanting in terms of standards and hygiene.
:22:58. > :23:02.the question on the staffing of the CQC, I can confirm than in October
:23:02. > :23:11.of last year I authorised an additional 75 posts for inspectors
:23:11. > :23:15.to be filled in that organisation. Given that it was the changing
:23:15. > :23:19.business model that seems to have led to the current difficulties,
:23:20. > :23:25.what procedures have the government put in place to prevent such
:23:26. > :23:29.procedures leading to similar collapse of the business? Is he
:23:29. > :23:38.convinced that the CQC has sufficient investigative as opposed
:23:38. > :23:45.to enforcement powers should this sadly we are care? -- sadly re-
:23:45. > :23:49.occur. There are issues that we would want to look at a rising from
:23:49. > :23:55.this situation in terms of forming social care but I think it would be
:23:55. > :23:58.wrong in the midst of the restructuring that the company is
:23:58. > :24:05.undertaking to come forward with a hard and fast set of solutions to
:24:05. > :24:09.the long term so -- stability of the sector. Tomorrow I will visit
:24:09. > :24:14.Bellevue Court in my constituency, one of many Southern Cross homes
:24:14. > :24:18.around the country. I note what the Minister has said about the
:24:18. > :24:26.government guaranteeing that nobody in the care of Southern Cross will
:24:26. > :24:29.be left without care as a result of what is happening. Clearly it is
:24:29. > :24:34.preferable for Southern Cross and their landlords and lenders to
:24:34. > :24:42.reach a solution that ensures that but let me pressing harder on what
:24:42. > :24:46.will happen if that does not come about. How will he live up to be
:24:46. > :24:53.guaranteed -- they guarantee that if the rescue plan that they are
:24:53. > :25:01.trying to work through that the government will ensure that
:25:01. > :25:05.nobody's care is compromised? grateful to the honourable
:25:05. > :25:10.gentleman and I understand why he would want to press for further
:25:10. > :25:16.details as to what would happen in those hypotheticals, but in the
:25:16. > :25:18.very nature of these commercial discussions to give credibility to
:25:18. > :25:25.hypothetical situations is to create the possibility of them
:25:25. > :25:31.becoming a reality. I do not want that to happen. The failure of the
:25:31. > :25:34.last government a regular the banks led to a crisis in that sector. Is
:25:34. > :25:44.the national disgrace which is Southern Cross a similar
:25:44. > :25:44.
:25:44. > :25:49.dereliction of duty? What I am really entirely focused on at the
:25:49. > :25:54.moment is making sure that through the facility of officers of the
:25:54. > :25:56.government we ensure that all of the parties are clear about their
:25:56. > :26:01.responsibilities and that they understand that reputation will
:26:01. > :26:05.damage to them if they do not do what they must do, which is to
:26:05. > :26:12.ensure a timely and thorough restructuring of this business that
:26:12. > :26:18.ensures continuity of care for the residents. In opposing these
:26:18. > :26:22.proposed sell-off of care homes by Nottingham County Council, I have
:26:22. > :26:30.been warning the council about the crisis in Southern Cross but this
:26:31. > :26:36.is not the only big care provider in problems. A care provider in my
:26:36. > :26:40.constituency is also now in crisis and threatening to throw people out
:26:40. > :26:44.of Forest Hill care home. Will the Minister be prepared to meet
:26:44. > :26:50.families from my constituency so that on the next occasion he is
:26:50. > :26:56.ahead of the game rather than behind it? Have caused the Minister
:26:57. > :27:02.will be happy to provide a be her - - brief reply but we must focus on
:27:02. > :27:06.the specific question of Southern Cross. This is not a general debate.
:27:06. > :27:13.In the spirit that the question was asked, I would be only too happy if
:27:13. > :27:17.he was to write to me to consider the request. The residents of
:27:17. > :27:25.Bradfield House care home in Bradfield will welcome what the
:27:25. > :27:28.Minister has said today. Could he say some more about how we will
:27:28. > :27:34.learn the broad lessons of this situation and ensure that this
:27:34. > :27:38.never happens again? I am grateful to my honourable friend for that
:27:38. > :27:44.question and as I have indicated, in the work that we are currently
:27:44. > :27:47.doing preparatory to producing a paper, we are engaged with many
:27:47. > :27:54.stakeholders are discussing the issues of quality and regulation to
:27:54. > :28:04.make that we are, A, equipped to make -- get the right questions but
:28:04. > :28:05.
:28:05. > :28:09.also get the right policy for the future. The Minister has been very
:28:09. > :28:14.careful not to say what he should be saying here, and I understand
:28:14. > :28:18.why his officials will have told him not to. Will he pledged to the
:28:18. > :28:24.House that no vulnerable person who should not be moved if there is a
:28:25. > :28:28.catastrophe of the kind we all want to avoid will be able to stay in
:28:28. > :28:34.their residential home? That is the pledge we need to hear from him to
:28:34. > :28:38.show some leadership as the Minister responsible from him.
:28:38. > :28:44.pledge that I can give to the House is that every local authority with
:28:45. > :28:49.Southern Cross care homes is clear about their statutory duties to
:28:49. > :28:56.guarantee and provide care for not just the state funded Presidents
:28:56. > :29:06.but also be self- funded residents. That is the clearest guarantee that
:29:06. > :29:08.
:29:08. > :29:15.My constituency -- constituents are in clear about the early warning
:29:15. > :29:18.system for social care, how can any mechanism be improved? A number of
:29:18. > :29:23.members asked questions about how we ensure we improve the system?
:29:23. > :29:26.Indeed, in the reforms we have brought forward in the Health and
:29:26. > :29:31.Social Care Bill, one of the questions that Bill right raises is
:29:31. > :29:37.a role in the future potentially for monitoring effective regulation
:29:37. > :29:40.of the social care sector, an issue we are exploring with colleagues in
:29:40. > :29:47.the Department of business and continue to discuss it with other
:29:47. > :29:52.stake holders and that could offer a longer term solution.
:29:52. > :29:57.The care sector is increasingly reliant on private-sector providers
:29:57. > :30:02.and the care sector includes not only people who run care homes, but
:30:02. > :30:08.kept agencies as well. I suspect that will be one of our next
:30:08. > :30:15.problems. As a significant proportion of both care homes and
:30:15. > :30:22.care agencies comes from public funds i think the Government and
:30:22. > :30:27.local authorities have the right and responsibility to assess the
:30:27. > :30:33.financial stability of providers who they are interested in the care
:30:33. > :30:43.of very a vulnerable people. Why has far not been done?
:30:43. > :30:44.
:30:44. > :30:48.I think that, I have in fact spoken to those in the devolved
:30:48. > :30:54.administration and my officials maintain contact and dialogue with
:30:54. > :30:58.them and in Wales with 1,700 residents in care homes, 54 in all
:30:58. > :31:04.their real concerns. As to the wider issues of the sector, she is
:31:04. > :31:08.right, we need to look at other issues. In the current arrangements,
:31:08. > :31:15.for the Sikh QC there is a duty to examine that financial viability
:31:15. > :31:22.and there is an issue will cut further C Q c. Following the marks
:31:22. > :31:29.made, directors have very specific duties in stewardship of the
:31:29. > :31:35.company. Has the Minister had any discussions with the Secretary of
:31:35. > :31:42.State about referring this matter? I have not had those discussions
:31:42. > :31:46.and the need for those discussions has not arisen. The company itself
:31:46. > :31:51.feels that the consequences, the outcome of yesterday's meetings has
:31:51. > :31:57.been very important in terms of its ability to be able to carry forward
:31:57. > :32:01.a restructuring which safeguards the interests of residents.
:32:01. > :32:05.My constituents asking me specifically about whether their
:32:05. > :32:09.elderly and sometimes frail relatives may face the prospect of
:32:09. > :32:18.having to move. I know my honourable friend has raised this
:32:18. > :32:23.issue but this is specific and has been risen by my constituents?
:32:23. > :32:28.For think I tried to give the House a number of reassurances on that
:32:28. > :32:32.point and I would add over a number of years, they have been home
:32:32. > :32:36.closures and what we have to do is make sure we learn lessons from
:32:36. > :32:41.those and one of the lessons is we have to minimise the possibility of
:32:41. > :32:45.home closures and ensure a meeting place their done sensitively,
:32:45. > :32:49.slowly and in a careful way. I very much will come to work the
:32:49. > :32:53.Association of Directors of adult social services have done and what
:32:53. > :33:00.they published which sets out clear evidence based guidance to assist
:33:00. > :33:06.local authorities in managing any closures in the future.
:33:06. > :33:09.I'm rather concerned about what Mr to this morning, the complacent
:33:09. > :33:13.attitude the Department of Health is showing about the role of local
:33:13. > :33:17.authorities. Is there a co- ordinated plan for the whole of the
:33:17. > :33:21.country bringing together all the local authority's plans so we know
:33:21. > :33:26.there's coverage across the country if the worst happens? I'm not sure
:33:26. > :33:33.there is? Such work is in hand and has been
:33:33. > :33:36.in hand for some time. There is concern across this House
:33:36. > :33:41.that 31,000 of the most vulnerable people in our country are facing
:33:41. > :33:46.the risk of having to move care home and all the risks that come to
:33:46. > :33:51.that for the health. Can the Minister in some of reducing of
:33:51. > :33:54.white paper saying there is an injured -- urgency for this and
:33:54. > :34:02.come forward with regulation and make sure this does not happen
:34:02. > :34:08.again? I understand the desire of all on the members to have urgent
:34:08. > :34:17.action but up what I did not here in her question was asked what
:34:17. > :34:19.changes would be. When he cares to offer those, we can look at that.
:34:19. > :34:24.I'm very grateful for the ministers' reassurances this
:34:24. > :34:28.morning but there was reassurances ring a little hollow because I was
:34:28. > :34:32.already aware of a great deal of shortcomings in terms of levels and
:34:32. > :34:38.quality of care in the homes that Southern Cross having Gateshead
:34:38. > :34:43.before the financial crisis became a matter of public record. Is seems
:34:43. > :34:47.to quality council are looking at homes on a individual basis and not
:34:47. > :34:52.a national pattern on how their rotten care ethos in this whole
:34:52. > :35:02.organisation will stop where will the Mr Justice as a whole national
:35:02. > :35:02.
:35:02. > :35:09.problem cure -- the Minister as a whole national problem. Her can
:35:09. > :35:14.remind them of the merits of brevity. Residence in the care
:35:14. > :35:22.homes in my constituency, about six care homes in my constituency would
:35:22. > :35:28.be horrified at the remarks. The fact they say it was a commercial
:35:28. > :35:33.sector problem to be dealt with by the commercial sector is outrageous
:35:33. > :35:37.and will frighten the wits out of those that are 1,000 residents,
:35:37. > :35:43.this is a society problem and should be dealt with by the
:35:43. > :35:48.Government. What crumbs of comfort can he give to the people of my
:35:48. > :35:53.constituency we stop abusing elderly people and use them as
:35:53. > :35:57.marketplace commodities? There have been to contributions to
:35:57. > :36:01.this statement which really do conflict separate issues, we have a
:36:01. > :36:05.business that is in serious financial stress and is working its
:36:05. > :36:09.way through to be a viable business for the future and this is not
:36:09. > :36:13.about the abuse of all the people in these homes and we should not
:36:13. > :36:19.conflate in the way, that is not helpful to having a sensible debate
:36:19. > :36:25.and securing a sensible restructuring of this business.
:36:25. > :36:29.He is displaying complacency when it comes to this crisis. Like it
:36:29. > :36:33.will not this crisis is his responsibility and honourable
:36:33. > :36:37.members on both sides will be having surgeries this weekend and
:36:38. > :36:41.meeting the families of people who are very vulnerable living in these
:36:41. > :36:45.care homes and he has failed to give any guarantee about the future,
:36:45. > :36:51.he has not convinced the House of what lessons he has learned in
:36:51. > :36:55.short term, who can we phone, who will be the Department this weekend
:36:55. > :36:59.if there is a problem? In a statement I've made it clear
:36:59. > :37:03.that both the steps the Department of Health has taken working with
:37:03. > :37:07.landlords, working with some cross and others to make sure each party
:37:07. > :37:11.to this is clear about their responsibilities and clear about
:37:11. > :37:16.what actions they would take in the event of business closure. What I
:37:16. > :37:21.want to be clear about is that as we move forward we need to make
:37:21. > :37:25.sure that we learn lessons from this, lessons from this in the
:37:25. > :37:29.context of regulation, lessons about how this was allowed to occur
:37:29. > :37:33.in the first place the this is not the time for those, the focus I
:37:33. > :37:38.have as a minister was focused on this as an issue is making sure we
:37:38. > :37:41.have a successful restructuring of this business and the business
:37:41. > :37:45.remains focused on the welfare of the residents.
:37:45. > :37:51.I'm sorry to press the Minister again and I think he recognises
:37:51. > :37:56.that changes to care, even when well planned, have a serious impact
:37:56. > :38:01.on the health of residents in care homes. Can I ask him again, can he
:38:01. > :38:04.guarantee that if those commercial discussions fail, residence will be
:38:04. > :38:08.guaranteed to be continued to care for cash cared for in their
:38:08. > :38:12.existing homes? Who Government has made it clear in no circumstances
:38:12. > :38:16.will we allow the residents of any of these care homes to find
:38:16. > :38:22.themselves made homeless without good continuity of care and that is
:38:22. > :38:27.the pledge we make. Is not a real issue, how will he secured that?
:38:27. > :38:31.There is a real tension between care and commerce. It seems to me
:38:31. > :38:39.in the restructuring it could well affect areas disproportionately and
:38:39. > :38:46.we need to have something from the care quality commissioned measure
:38:46. > :38:51.members have a feedback and reports on how this is being dealt with.
:38:51. > :38:54.I have said one of the things I take very seriously is the need to
:38:54. > :38:59.keep the House informed as we progress on these matters. I'm
:38:59. > :39:04.clear that the paramount interest, the interest the regulator has a
:39:04. > :39:07.statutory duty to enforce is the welfare of the residents and that
:39:08. > :39:12.is what we're doing and will continue to do.
:39:12. > :39:17.I welcome the Mrs comment that every resident would be looked
:39:18. > :39:25.after, can he further reassure residents in my constituency that
:39:25. > :39:30.they will suffer no detriment as a result of this situation?
:39:30. > :39:34.What I can say is we need to make absolutely clear to the landlords
:39:35. > :39:39.and to the company that their actions do have consequences and
:39:39. > :39:42.that their actions us be focused on a speedy resolution to the way in
:39:42. > :39:47.which this business he's restructured that insures the
:39:47. > :39:52.business canned continue to employ good god is staff and insures it
:39:52. > :39:57.can continue to provide care for the 31,000 people who live in its
:39:57. > :40:01.homes. I heard the Minister say he had discussions with the devolved
:40:01. > :40:06.administration and could the say during the discussions with the
:40:06. > :40:12.Scottish counterparts, was he made aware of the real concerns of the
:40:12. > :40:15.conventions of Scottish Local authorities should there be a
:40:15. > :40:21.catastrophic issued they do not have the funding to deal with there
:40:21. > :40:27.consequences and what will he offer to -- for that respect? The most
:40:27. > :40:32.unlikely, by far of all of the outcomes of Southern Cross is that
:40:32. > :40:36.catastrophic outcome, the most likely outcome is the least
:40:36. > :40:41.successful -- the successful restructuring with business moved
:40:41. > :40:45.to other operators. When I spoke to Nicola Sturgeon earlier this week
:40:45. > :40:50.we discussed all of the issues that concern her and me and we were
:40:50. > :40:53.agreed about the need to pursue this path of a consensual, solvent
:40:53. > :40:57.restructuring of the business as the best way of securing the
:40:57. > :41:02.welfare of the residents in the homes.
:41:02. > :41:08.80% of the income for Southern Cross it comes from the taxpayer,
:41:08. > :41:13.yet the Thames seem to have been made to of shop as much of that
:41:13. > :41:16.money as possible. Age UK as in future all care home providers
:41:16. > :41:21.should demonstrate to the regulators they have a solid
:41:21. > :41:25.business model. In his answer to my friend from Wolverhampton, he
:41:26. > :41:30.implies there was no weight regulation can be strengthened,
:41:30. > :41:38.would he look sues the at the suggestion over the coming months.
:41:38. > :41:45.It does allow me to make the case age UK... We are in discussions
:41:45. > :41:49.with them and will continue to look at that. I understand that the
:41:49. > :41:55.Department of Health was invited to the meeting yesterday with Southern
:41:55. > :42:03.Cross and with that 1,000 people being vulnerable with the chance of
:42:03. > :42:06.losing their homes, why did no-one from Dublin attend? Meeting in his
:42:06. > :42:09.character changed significantly over the last couple of days to
:42:09. > :42:12.meeting which have focused on getting to a clear agreement
:42:12. > :42:16.between the lenders, landlords and Southern Cross and we wanted to
:42:16. > :42:21.make sure they were focused on doing that and that is why there
:42:21. > :42:26.was no DH represented at the meeting.
:42:26. > :42:31.Or the contributions be made have concentrated on the rights and
:42:31. > :42:37.plight of the residents and that is understandable, but we should think
:42:38. > :42:42.about the work force at Southern Cross. Yesterday I was into it for
:42:42. > :42:46.the local organising and he told me with the homes in Dundee, the work
:42:46. > :42:50.force are demoralised and that is not the best atmosphere in which to
:42:50. > :42:56.provide care. What has been said earlier, would the Minister
:42:56. > :43:00.consider setting up and in MPs helpline, a Claudia Lawrence said
:43:01. > :43:10.he would have families coming into the surgery and it would help if I
:43:11. > :43:11.
:43:11. > :43:14.could contact someone? Two days ago I had a meeting our we will put
:43:14. > :43:21.right a range as to be made in event of those scenarios he talked
:43:21. > :43:26.about. I thank the Minister and colleagues, urgent question, Mr
:43:27. > :43:36.Andy Burnham. -- the Secretary of State for Education to make a
:43:37. > :43:37.
:43:37. > :43:42.statement on funding for the academy programme. The errors
:43:42. > :43:46.reported in the Financial Times today relate to mistakes made by
:43:46. > :43:52.local authorities in their returns to the department. It relies on
:43:52. > :43:54.local authorities to provide accurate information about their
:43:54. > :43:59.spending and occasionally individual local authorities make
:43:59. > :44:05.errors which can lead to academies getting too much or indeed to
:44:05. > :44:11.little funding. The system for funding academies set up by the
:44:11. > :44:15.previous Government is unclear, unwieldy and in our view and fair.
:44:15. > :44:20.It is no surprise therefore that some errors do occur. This is why
:44:20. > :44:24.we are proposing changes to the school funding system to ensure all
:44:24. > :44:29.schools and academies are fully funded and three system without the
:44:29. > :44:33.complexities that lead to these types of problems. It is brought up
:44:33. > :44:37.of the right honourable gentleman to ask these questions and
:44:37. > :44:41.attacking us for failing for the system created by the previous
:44:41. > :44:49.Labour Government of which he was a part. We are the ones sorting it
:44:49. > :44:54.out just as we are sorting out the historic budget for deficit. Does
:44:54. > :45:00.he agree we should raise the bar on secondary schools from 35%
:45:00. > :45:04.achieving five good GCSEs and English and maths to 40% next year
:45:04. > :45:09.and does he agree that we should further raise it to 50% by the end
:45:09. > :45:13.of this Parliament. Does he agree with our announcement today... I do
:45:13. > :45:19.not why the opposition do not want to hear this, does he agree with
:45:19. > :45:24.our announcement today to extend the Academy's programme to
:45:24. > :45:28.underperforming Paris schools and in particular to the 200 worst
:45:28. > :45:37.performing primary schools many of which were in that state for a
:45:37. > :45:40.decade while his party was in When will they learn that they can
:45:40. > :45:46.never backed away the question and always blame at something --
:45:46. > :45:50.somebody else? Today's Financial Times says that his department has
:45:50. > :45:55.given a large number of academies in England more money than they are
:45:55. > :46:00.entitled to. This comes days after the Secretary of State caved in to
:46:00. > :46:04.a legal claim that too much money had been taken from councils to pay
:46:04. > :46:10.for academies. Does the Secretary of State and the Minister have a
:46:10. > :46:15.grip on the budget? Wary is the Secretary of State? This is a day
:46:15. > :46:18.on which serious questions are being asked about the rapid
:46:18. > :46:27.expansion of his Academy's programme and whether it is backed
:46:27. > :46:31.up with a serious plan. Why is he not here making that statement to
:46:31. > :46:37.the House of Commons? Shouldn't he be here to reassure members that he
:46:37. > :46:41.can proceed with his programme fairly and efficiently without
:46:41. > :46:45.penalising other schools? Will the Minister tell the House how many
:46:45. > :46:50.schools have been over funded and what is the total amount paid in
:46:50. > :46:57.error? Will this money now be clawed back from schools? It is not
:46:57. > :47:00.good enough to blame everybody else. When will he take responsibility
:47:00. > :47:05.for the budget of his own department? If they had not spotted
:47:05. > :47:10.this mistake before the F T reported it, why not? Under threat
:47:10. > :47:15.of legal action, the government has announced a U-turn on Academy
:47:15. > :47:19.funding. Can the Minister set out the details for that review and
:47:19. > :47:23.does he accept the need for urgency? Is indeed the case that
:47:23. > :47:30.the Secretary of State repeatedly finds himself in these situations
:47:31. > :47:36.because he fails to consult people? -- isn't it the case. The only way
:47:36. > :47:41.that people can make you listen to them is to launch her legal action.
:47:41. > :47:47.That is no way to run a department. We hear that he will pay the
:47:47. > :47:55.councils' legal costs. He has paid more money on solicitors' fees than
:47:55. > :48:05.Ryan Giggs and Fred Goodwin tomorrow. -- together. Isn't this a
:48:05. > :48:08.
:48:08. > :48:12.scandalous waste when money is needed for children's education? He
:48:12. > :48:16.has been converted to Labour policies. We support raising
:48:16. > :48:23.standards in schools. It is the standards of the Secretary of State
:48:23. > :48:28.we are worried about. Maybe the plan necessary today was for poorly
:48:28. > :48:30.run government departments to be taken over by successful ones.
:48:30. > :48:37.Today the Secretary of State pathetically tried to blame Labour
:48:37. > :48:44.for his latest blunder. Isn't it time he took responsibility for his
:48:44. > :48:51.serial incompetence? Who yet again the honourable gentleman overstates
:48:51. > :48:56.his case. The Secretary of State is speaking in Birmingham to the
:48:56. > :49:00.national college as school leadership. I am sure his
:49:00. > :49:09.predecessors spoke to them every year. We are taking action to
:49:09. > :49:13.tackle these problems. They occur every year and they did so every
:49:13. > :49:17.year under the last Labour government. The difference is that
:49:17. > :49:22.we are taking action to sort out this problem and that is why we
:49:22. > :49:26.announced a fundamental review of the school funding system. We are
:49:26. > :49:32.making further announcements on the details of that review later this
:49:32. > :49:36.year. He also raised the issue of double funding, where central
:49:36. > :49:40.government is funding both the local authority and the Academy for
:49:40. > :49:49.the same services. This is something that occurred under the
:49:49. > :49:54.last Labour government and we are sorting it out. That is why the D C
:49:54. > :50:02.L G sliced money off the funding of local government to deal with that
:50:02. > :50:08.funding. We are looking about again. -- looking at that again. I would
:50:08. > :50:17.like to know whether the right honourable gentleman supports us in
:50:17. > :50:21.supporting a clearer and simpler system. We want a system that has a
:50:21. > :50:28.per pupil funding system that everybody can understand and that
:50:28. > :50:35.is fair. Rather than the system that his government had, where
:50:35. > :50:44.schools were receiving thousands of pounds more per pupil a than
:50:45. > :50:51.another school in a similar situation. Isn't it the case that
:50:51. > :50:57.the question is a smokescreen for those who opposed academies? We
:50:57. > :51:02.created more in 12 months than they created in 12 years. The last
:51:02. > :51:11.government left half-a-million children illiterate. They want to
:51:11. > :51:14.wallow in mediocrity rather than pursue excellent. -- excellence.
:51:14. > :51:19.is clear where the opposition stands in relation to free schools,
:51:19. > :51:23.for example. Since the election the right honourable gentleman has said
:51:23. > :51:29.he opposes the establishment of free schools but since the news
:51:29. > :51:36.broke that one of Tony Blair's closest aides is setting up his new
:51:36. > :51:39.school he has now said that he supports them. Does he support the
:51:39. > :51:46.academies programme or would he closed down those schools if he
:51:46. > :51:51.came to power? When I published the original policy paper 10 years ago
:51:51. > :51:55.on academies it was never intended that they should be overpaid and
:51:55. > :52:03.local authorities under paid for doing the job of supporting pupils.
:52:03. > :52:08.Can the Minister confirm that the 2.25 % that has been withdrawn from
:52:09. > :52:13.school funding general and the overspend on academies has denied
:52:13. > :52:19.other children the key services they need to raise standards and
:52:19. > :52:23.give them a life chance that all of us should want for every child?
:52:23. > :52:27.think it is a rich when former Education Secretary is attack us
:52:27. > :52:32.for this policy because this is a system that this government