0:00:20 > 0:00:23Good evening and welcome to a special edition of CF99,
0:00:23 > 0:00:26the first chance to hear live on television
0:00:26 > 0:00:30from the three candidates in the race to lead Plaid Cymru.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34Welcome to you three - Dafydd Elis-Thomas from the Dwyfor Meirionnydd constituency,
0:00:34 > 0:00:35Elin Jones from Ceredigion,
0:00:35 > 0:00:39and Leanne Wood, who represents the South Wales Central region in the Assembly.
0:00:39 > 0:00:45And you're also welcome to join in through Twitter, hashtag #CF99.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Leanne Wood, by the way, will contribute bilingually tonight,
0:00:48 > 0:00:53and will be getting simultaneous translation through an earpiece.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Let's start with the opening statements.
0:00:55 > 0:00:59One minute each, please, starting with you, Dafydd Elis-Thomas.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03This is the hardest election I think I've ever stood in,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06and I've stood in several elections over the years,
0:01:06 > 0:01:11because you're appealing to the Plaid Cymru membership,
0:01:11 > 0:01:13which is nearly 9,000.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16But despite that, the job is a very public one,
0:01:16 > 0:01:21which involves communicating with all of Wales.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24What I've been trying to do is convince the party membership
0:01:24 > 0:01:27that they have to think of the election
0:01:27 > 0:01:33as an election which is not just for them, but for all of Wales.
0:01:33 > 0:01:37That's quite a difficult project, because what tends to happen is that in an internal election,
0:01:37 > 0:01:43is that people tend to support the faction within the party that they're most comfortable with,
0:01:43 > 0:01:47rather than thinking about who is the most effective public face
0:01:47 > 0:01:50to communicate on behalf of the party in a wider sense.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52I hope to develop that argument further,
0:01:52 > 0:01:55about the nature of leadership, over the next few weeks,
0:01:55 > 0:01:57beginning tonight, perhaps.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00A perfect minute, Dafydd Elis-Thomas. Thank you. Elin Jones.
0:02:00 > 0:02:07I want Plaid Cymru to be a party that speaks to everyone in Wales,
0:02:07 > 0:02:09which intends to govern Wales,
0:02:09 > 0:02:13and intends to turn Wales into a successful, independent country.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16Plaid Cymru's ambition is a radical one,
0:02:16 > 0:02:19and I want to see us as a party which is bolder in our politics,
0:02:19 > 0:02:24but our politics also need to be practical and relevant
0:02:24 > 0:02:28to people's everyday lives.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31I've put my name forward to be Plaid Cymru leader
0:02:31 > 0:02:34because I think I have that right mix
0:02:34 > 0:02:40of experience, character and ambition for the job.
0:02:40 > 0:02:44But I'm offering myself for the job not only to be Plaid Cymru leader,
0:02:44 > 0:02:49but to be a challenge to Carwyn Jones and the Labour Party,
0:02:49 > 0:02:53because I want Plaid Cymru's next leader, whoever he or she may be,
0:02:53 > 0:02:56to be the next First Minister of Wales.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58Elin Jones, thank you very much.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01- They're good so far, aren't they? - Yes, they're keeping to time.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Leanne Wood, your minute, please.
0:03:04 > 0:03:11I stand for true independence, not just independence,
0:03:11 > 0:03:19true independence - independence to sort out our economy,
0:03:19 > 0:03:26to sort out our communities, and to sort out unemployment.
0:03:26 > 0:03:32We have to build our communities as well,
0:03:32 > 0:03:38and if communities succeed, Wales succeeds.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41Leanne Wood, thank you very much.
0:03:41 > 0:03:46We heard the word "independence" from Leanne and Elin Jones, and Dafydd Elis-Thomas,
0:03:46 > 0:03:50you say you're comfortable with the word by now.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52But what does it mean?
0:03:52 > 0:03:55What's important is the Scotland has shown the way with this.
0:03:55 > 0:03:59Alex Salmond has a very clever cabinet, not just himself,
0:03:59 > 0:04:03they're very intelligent people and good advisors who have tested these things,
0:04:03 > 0:04:05and they've set a question,
0:04:05 > 0:04:08and hopefully they'll get permission from the UK Government
0:04:08 > 0:04:13to determine their own future and ask their own question - that's an important principle, I think.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17But the question will be, "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
0:04:17 > 0:04:22That proposition will then be followed by a campaign explaining its meaning.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24An independent Scotland, for the SNP,
0:04:24 > 0:04:26clearly means the Queen of Scots,
0:04:26 > 0:04:29that sentence has been heard a lot in Holyrood,
0:04:29 > 0:04:30and then the pound.
0:04:30 > 0:04:36So the definition of what an independent country would be is constitutionally quite clear.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38What I'm emphasising in terms of Wales
0:04:38 > 0:04:43is that the only independence possible for any country in the 21st century
0:04:43 > 0:04:46is independence which is interdependent
0:04:46 > 0:04:52within a federal Europe, therefore transforming the United Kingdom to be part of a federal Europe.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56That's not very different to what I've been saying over the years.
0:04:56 > 0:05:01And on independence, Elin Jones, you've set a timetable -
0:05:01 > 0:05:04two elections with two victories for Plaid Cymru,
0:05:04 > 0:05:07that is, two victories as a single party or as part of a coalition,
0:05:07 > 0:05:11what would the details be for that timetable?
0:05:11 > 0:05:12The first job for Plaid Cymru to do
0:05:12 > 0:05:16is to define exactly what we mean by independence,
0:05:16 > 0:05:18our path, our route map to independence,
0:05:18 > 0:05:23and I'd want to see Plaid Cymru doing that within the next year,
0:05:23 > 0:05:28then selling that vision and making it relevant to the lives of the people of Wales,
0:05:28 > 0:05:33and winning the mandate and the support of the people of Wales to eventually hold a referendum.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37Two victories as a government.
0:05:37 > 0:05:43Scotland did that, of course, the SNP, on the basis of a minority and then a majority government.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46The SNP wanted to hold a referendum in their first term, didn't they?
0:05:46 > 0:05:52They didn't see the need to wait for two elections, but they didn't have the numbers in parliament.
0:05:52 > 0:05:58Well, I can't see how we can be a majority government by 2016,
0:05:58 > 0:06:03- winning 31 seats by 2016... - Is that a majority? 31?
0:06:03 > 0:06:10- Yes, it's a majority in... - But it's not a stable majority for the Assembly, over five years.
0:06:10 > 0:06:15- And for a government, 31... - Let me bring Leanne Wood in here.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18You're much clearer on independence.
0:06:18 > 0:06:22What will you do with this independence argument? Are they in favour of independence?
0:06:22 > 0:06:28Well, I think we have to connect independence with the economy,
0:06:28 > 0:06:34we have to prioritise the economy now.
0:06:34 > 0:06:40People can't see the light at the end of the tunnel,
0:06:40 > 0:06:48so we have to offer hope to the people of Wales,
0:06:48 > 0:06:56and we have to show everyone how true independence will help them.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59How would independence mean economic growth?
0:06:59 > 0:07:05Well, jobs, we have to create jobs in our communities,
0:07:05 > 0:07:10and if communities are strong, Wales is strong.
0:07:10 > 0:07:16Dafydd Elis-Thomas, Leanne Wood links the economy with independence.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18There's no doubt that if you go out and about
0:07:18 > 0:07:21that the economy is the important thing for the people of Wales.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23What is your economic message?
0:07:23 > 0:07:25Well, what kind of economy?
0:07:25 > 0:07:29I place a strong emphasis, and I've been doing this work for some months,
0:07:29 > 0:07:33as chairman of the committee responsible for the environment and sustainable development,
0:07:33 > 0:07:36and I'll be in Machynlleth, as it happens,
0:07:36 > 0:07:39at the Centre for Alternative Technology,
0:07:39 > 0:07:42discussing this exact subject, which is how we create more green jobs,
0:07:42 > 0:07:45how we create more jobs within the energy industry,
0:07:45 > 0:07:48how we develop sustainability, and also, I have to say,
0:07:48 > 0:07:50how we create low-carbon jobs in Wales,
0:07:50 > 0:07:54including investing significantly, which is necessary,
0:07:54 > 0:07:56in the nuclear industry.
0:07:56 > 0:08:00Because it's important that we have a mixture of energy sources
0:08:00 > 0:08:02which will grow the Welsh economy,
0:08:02 > 0:08:06and it's also important that we have energy distribution that will work,
0:08:06 > 0:08:09and we need to find green jobs, especially scientific green jobs,
0:08:09 > 0:08:13I've been talking even today to Welsh Water, who are developing in this direction.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17So within green jobs, even in a difficult economic time,
0:08:17 > 0:08:19there's scope for creating new jobs.
0:08:19 > 0:08:24Let me ask another question, as Dafydd has referred to nuclear energy,
0:08:24 > 0:08:25Galw Gari Tryfan on Twitter says,
0:08:25 > 0:08:29"Which of the candidates support Wylfa B,
0:08:29 > 0:08:33and another power station at Trawsfynydd, if that was possible?"
0:08:33 > 0:08:34Dafydd?
0:08:34 > 0:08:37I am entirely in support of creating jobs
0:08:37 > 0:08:41in the energy industry in North Wales, and that means Wylfa B.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44I've been in discussions with Kevin McCullough, the chairman of Horizon,
0:08:44 > 0:08:48about this issue during the last week, and I'm looking forward to the announcement
0:08:48 > 0:08:50on what kind of reactor there will be.
0:08:50 > 0:08:54In terms of Trawsfynydd, we've had an announcement from the minister from that area.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57There's already a renewable power station on that site,
0:08:57 > 0:09:00and there's no certainty about how we can develop this,
0:09:00 > 0:09:03but there will be a special regime for the park and development.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05Elin Jones, on nuclear power.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07I'm not in favour of nuclear energy,
0:09:07 > 0:09:11and Plaid Cymru isn't in favour of nuclear energy.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14You'll lose Anglesey if you carry on that way, I have to say.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18If the Westminster Government decides to introduce a new reactor on Anglesey,
0:09:18 > 0:09:23then I certainly believe that agencies and authorities
0:09:23 > 0:09:26should work to ensure that those jobs are for young people
0:09:26 > 0:09:29in the building and on the reactor in the long term.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32But we have to prepare for that now.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35So I do believe that we need to be proactive with that,
0:09:35 > 0:09:38but no, there are alternative choices to nuclear energy
0:09:38 > 0:09:42which are also low-carbon, I don't disagree with that,
0:09:42 > 0:09:47and there's a great deal we should be prioritising here in Wales in that renewable energy sector.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49Leanne Wood, on nuclear?
0:09:49 > 0:09:53I don't agree with nuclear power,
0:09:53 > 0:09:57but we have to create jobs on Anglesey.
0:09:57 > 0:10:05In the last year, I wrote the Greenprint for the Valleys,
0:10:05 > 0:10:10which is a plan for renewable energy in Wales,
0:10:10 > 0:10:15and also conserving energy.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18Let's mention another question that came through Twitter,
0:10:18 > 0:10:21related to independence, if you like,
0:10:21 > 0:10:25what would Wales's situation be in relation to the monarchy?
0:10:25 > 0:10:28Leanne Wood, a question from Hen Goes,
0:10:28 > 0:10:32"The next time the Queen comes to visit the Senedd, where will you be?"
0:10:32 > 0:10:33I'll be there.
0:10:33 > 0:10:38But having boycotted it in the past, if you were party leader,
0:10:38 > 0:10:40would you meet the Queen?
0:10:40 > 0:10:44Well, the job of Plaid Cymru leader -
0:10:44 > 0:10:50the leader of Plaid Cymru has to represent Plaid Cymru,
0:10:50 > 0:10:55so if I'm the leader of Plaid Cymru, I'll be there.
0:10:55 > 0:11:00But what about all your supporters who are perhaps glad that you're a republican?
0:11:00 > 0:11:05Where do your loyalties lie then?
0:11:05 > 0:11:10Well, we have to concentrate on independence,
0:11:10 > 0:11:17so the question of the monarchy is second fiddle to this.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20So you're very happy to meet Mrs Windsor, then?
0:11:20 > 0:11:26- Well, perhaps not very happy, but I'll be there. - Dafydd, you were shaking your head.
0:11:26 > 0:11:29Well, I don't understand that attitude.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33I think it shows a lack of respect towards the establishment of the Assembly,
0:11:33 > 0:11:38that people are willing to turn up when they have jobs, but aren't willing when they're AMs.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40Elin Jones, do you want to say a word on that?
0:11:40 > 0:11:44Well, I in my job as an AM represent people in Ceredigion,
0:11:44 > 0:11:49and it was my priority to be there on the Senedd opening day
0:11:49 > 0:11:52when I'd just been elected to it.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55I'm a republican,
0:11:55 > 0:11:59but campaigning for some republican Britain isn't a priority for me.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04My priority is to campaign and ensure that Wales is an independent country,
0:12:04 > 0:12:10and Plaid Cymru has to keep its focus on our own core campaigns,
0:12:10 > 0:12:12not fighting other people's battles.
0:12:12 > 0:12:17Before we move on, Leanne Wood, Alex Salmond has said very clearly
0:12:17 > 0:12:20that the Queen would remain Queen of an independent Scotland.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24Would that be the arrangement in an independent Wales under Leanne Wood?
0:12:24 > 0:12:30Well, Plaid Cymru's policy is to have a referendum, after independence, on the monarchy.
0:12:30 > 0:12:33As in Scotland.
0:12:33 > 0:12:38Let's move on. Two questions which are perhaps connected to each other.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42Iwan Rhys says, "For Plaid Cymru to grow into the biggest party in the Assembly,
0:12:42 > 0:12:46"it has to win seats, mainly from Labour, in the South Wales Valleys and in the North East."
0:12:46 > 0:12:51"Are you the right candidate to attract those voters?"
0:12:51 > 0:12:55But Tecwyn, on the other hand, says, "How will you appeal to voters
0:12:55 > 0:12:58"who are conservative with a small "c", who are so key in seats
0:12:58 > 0:13:01"like Anglesey, Aberconwy, Carmarthen West,
0:13:01 > 0:13:05"Preseli Pembrokeshire and Clwyd West?"
0:13:05 > 0:13:07So it's a simple question in one sense,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10how do you widen the party's appeal? Elin Jones to start.
0:13:10 > 0:13:16Well, widening the party's appeal isn't just a matter of geography,
0:13:16 > 0:13:22but widening it on matters which are important to people of Wales, wherever they live.
0:13:22 > 0:13:26Yes, we need to win more seats, and a wide range of seats,
0:13:26 > 0:13:29not just in one particular place in Wales,
0:13:29 > 0:13:33so these matters are important, ensuring we prioritise those issues
0:13:33 > 0:13:38which are important to people in their everyday lives.
0:13:38 > 0:13:43As you haven't let me contribute on the economy question,
0:13:43 > 0:13:48I'd say here that the economy is of course the priority at the moment,
0:13:48 > 0:13:51Wales's recovery from the current slump,
0:13:51 > 0:13:53and myself and others have ideas on how to do that,
0:13:53 > 0:13:56but we have to make sure that Wales becomes a country
0:13:56 > 0:14:01where we're not at the bottom of the world economic leagues, but that we rise up from there,
0:14:01 > 0:14:08and I want to see us having a second industrial revolution, based on our natural resources,
0:14:08 > 0:14:14and Plaid Cymru has a role to lead on that economic debate.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18We don't see it coming from the Welsh Government or Westminster either.
0:14:18 > 0:14:22Back to increasing the party's appeal, Dafydd Elis-Thomas, how would you do that?
0:14:22 > 0:14:25I think we have to talk to all of Wales all the time.
0:14:25 > 0:14:29I've always opposed this idea of prioritising constituencies.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32I have the privilege to live part of my life in the Vale of Glamorgan
0:14:32 > 0:14:35and part in Snowdonia, and I travel across Wales regularly.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39I'm very familiar with the country, and I think it's very important
0:14:39 > 0:14:41that we present the same message everywhere.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43I'm also very aware that there are hundreds,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46possibly a couple of thousand, of conservative Welsh people
0:14:46 > 0:14:50who vote for me as their local member in Dwyfor Meirionnydd,
0:14:50 > 0:14:53and I won't stop looking after those people as well.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56This comes up in Dr Eurfyl Ap Gwilym's report
0:14:56 > 0:14:59about the state of the party, and it talks about the party's image
0:14:59 > 0:15:03as being a party only for Welsh speakers.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07Would Leanne, then, be a great asset to the party
0:15:07 > 0:15:10in terms of widening its appeal?
0:15:10 > 0:15:15Well, it's not as if all candidates are bilingual and lucky enough to be raised bilingual,
0:15:15 > 0:15:18and I'm very happy to see Leanne playing such a lively part
0:15:18 > 0:15:22in this programme, and I encourage AMs at all times to do what I do,
0:15:22 > 0:15:26which is speak Welsh in the Chamber every time I open my mouth.
0:15:26 > 0:15:28That's something it's easy enough for me to do,
0:15:28 > 0:15:31because I established the custom as Presiding Officer,
0:15:31 > 0:15:33but I think it is important that we use Welsh,
0:15:33 > 0:15:35but also appear to be reasonable.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37After all, we live in a bilingual country.
0:15:37 > 0:15:39We're ahead of Germany, if I may say.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43We're a bilingual country in the United Kingdom and in Europe.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46Leanne Wood, on the language, are you perhaps worried
0:15:46 > 0:15:50that Plaid Cymru is seen as a party only for Welsh speakers?
0:15:50 > 0:15:54Well, I come from the Valleys,
0:15:54 > 0:15:59and I can talk to people in the Valleys and the North East as well,
0:15:59 > 0:16:07and we have to break through in the areas where the Labour Party succeeds.
0:16:07 > 0:16:15On the matter of the language, well, I'm learning Welsh,
0:16:15 > 0:16:18I feel strongly about matters of the language,
0:16:18 > 0:16:24and activists from Cymdeithas yr Iaith, the Welsh Language Society,
0:16:24 > 0:16:35help us with this campaign, so I just try to speak Welsh, as I am now.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38Elin Jones, I saw on some of Plaid Cymru's blogs,
0:16:38 > 0:16:42people complaining about this idea of a double Ceredigion leadership.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45How does that widen the party's appeal?
0:16:45 > 0:16:49Well, the party's appeal is appealing to the people of Wales
0:16:49 > 0:16:52that we are the party to give priority
0:16:52 > 0:16:54to matters which are important to them,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57and to give the country an ambition which is important to them.
0:16:57 > 0:17:02I don't think it matters which language the leader happens to speak or not speak,
0:17:02 > 0:17:05and I don't think people worry about that.
0:17:05 > 0:17:09People worry about the party that will give leadership to this country,
0:17:09 > 0:17:12and leadership in the right direction,
0:17:12 > 0:17:15and certainly the party which will get us out
0:17:15 > 0:17:18of the economic hole we're in at the moment,
0:17:18 > 0:17:23and see us becoming an economically successful country.
0:17:23 > 0:17:28You as a party have had a taste of government here, Dafydd Elis-Thomas.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32In terms of your position on coalitions in the future,
0:17:32 > 0:17:36we know you're perhaps keener than some for a remarriage with the Labour Party.
0:17:36 > 0:17:38I don't want to marry the Labour Party,
0:17:38 > 0:17:42- I'm happy enough with Mair Parry Jones, thank you very much! - LAUGHTER
0:17:42 > 0:17:44But why?
0:17:44 > 0:17:48Well, because we want to be realistic in this situation, we're facing local elections,
0:17:48 > 0:17:50those are the important elections this year.
0:17:50 > 0:17:54We're already in coalitions in government and cabinets across Wales with different parties,
0:17:54 > 0:17:56and at one point, in the county I live in, in Conwy,
0:17:56 > 0:17:59we were even in coalition with the Conservative Party.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02We're with Labour at the moment and the Liberals.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05So many things are possible, and therefore I want to be practical,
0:18:05 > 0:18:07and I think it's important that people contribute
0:18:07 > 0:18:11to the government of their country, and that's the function of a political party.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14Does that include allying or forming a coalition,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17under any circumstances, with the Conservatives?
0:18:17 > 0:18:19No, it doesn't. It depends on the situation, as well.
0:18:19 > 0:18:24The only circumstance where I'd think we needed to discuss things with the Conservatives
0:18:24 > 0:18:28would be if Labour had seriously lost power in Wales, that people had voted against them,
0:18:28 > 0:18:32but I think it's important, if I may say, going back to what Leanne said,
0:18:32 > 0:18:36it's a mistake to concentrate on Labour alone to try to gain support,
0:18:36 > 0:18:38because look at what the SNP did in Scotland.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41That is, they've taken votes from the Conservatives and the Liberals.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45Leanne Wood, coalitions, where do you stand?
0:18:45 > 0:18:52Well, I don't want to go into coalition with the Tories,
0:18:52 > 0:18:58they're toxic in many places in Wales,
0:18:58 > 0:19:05so we have to rule out a coalition with the Tories.
0:19:05 > 0:19:14But I think now that Plaid Cymru needs to take stock,
0:19:14 > 0:19:19to build the case for independence, it's hard work, and there's...
0:19:19 > 0:19:22But would a coalition with Labour in the future be possible?
0:19:22 > 0:19:26It's possible, but what is the programme?
0:19:26 > 0:19:32I want to see the programme before making a decision.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35Elin Jones, it's fair to say that you were quite a fan
0:19:35 > 0:19:38of the Rainbow Coalition when that idea was around.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40It was a different situation, of course,
0:19:40 > 0:19:43because the Westminster Government was a different colour,
0:19:43 > 0:19:47but would you be willing to go into coalition with the Conservatives?
0:19:47 > 0:19:49Well, I think firstly that we as a party
0:19:49 > 0:19:52need to put something of a stop to this obsession we have
0:19:52 > 0:19:56of defining ourselves in the context of other parties,
0:19:56 > 0:20:01- and we need to concentrate on what we...- But people will want to know where you stand on the matter.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04But not four years before an election, if I may say.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07Now isn't the time to be discussing
0:20:07 > 0:20:09what the politics in four years could be,
0:20:09 > 0:20:12because things can change significantly,
0:20:12 > 0:20:15and who is in government in Westminster is important
0:20:15 > 0:20:19in terms of any discussion with Plaid Cymru, because, of course,
0:20:19 > 0:20:23one of the things we want to see as Plaid Cymru is more powers being devolved,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26and that can only be approved by the Westminster Government,
0:20:26 > 0:20:30not by any relationship with the Labour Party here during the next few months.
0:20:30 > 0:20:34Right, if you could change one thing about the party,
0:20:34 > 0:20:37the way it works at the moment, Leanne Wood, what would you do?
0:20:37 > 0:20:40Um... Sort out the economy.
0:20:41 > 0:20:47Well, in terms of the party, I think the thing we'd need to do
0:20:47 > 0:20:52is use the 7,900 members we have now, and focus all their enthusiasm
0:20:52 > 0:20:56on this aim of developing our economy
0:20:56 > 0:21:03and becoming a party which promotes economic strength for this country,
0:21:03 > 0:21:04and also the main focus,
0:21:04 > 0:21:09which is to aim for that independent, successful country.
0:21:09 > 0:21:11And Dafydd Elis-Thomas?
0:21:11 > 0:21:14The first thing I'd do is to hold a campaign to lower the voting age,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17because I learned a lot in the period before the referendum,
0:21:17 > 0:21:21when I was communicating on social media with young people and so on,
0:21:21 > 0:21:23and I think we have to animate our democracy.
0:21:23 > 0:21:28I don't think we've got 8,000 members, we haven't touched Wales.
0:21:28 > 0:21:34We need a crusade, in that sense, to open our politics out to people,
0:21:34 > 0:21:35and I think the fact
0:21:35 > 0:21:38that we have an election amongst our members is fine,
0:21:38 > 0:21:41but many more people in Wales should be able to contribute
0:21:41 > 0:21:45to the process of choosing a leader for 200,000 voters.
0:21:45 > 0:21:51A final question for you before we go, one by one,
0:21:51 > 0:21:53Leanne Wood, would you be able to co-operate well
0:21:53 > 0:21:58with either one of the other two if they won?
0:21:58 > 0:22:00- Both.- No problem?- Yes.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03Elin, would you be willing to serve under Leanne or Dafydd?
0:22:03 > 0:22:08I've worked alongside Leanne for eight years, and Dafydd for nearly 12 years,
0:22:08 > 0:22:10and I hope to do the same thing in the future.
0:22:10 > 0:22:14But there would be no place as deputy leader. That's already been designated.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18Yes, it'll be up to the Group members, of course, to decide who the deputy leader will be.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21And Dafydd, would you be happy to serve under either of these?
0:22:21 > 0:22:25I've had the pleasure of working alongside everyone in different ways,
0:22:25 > 0:22:27and I look forward to continuing to do that.
0:22:27 > 0:22:30There's so much work to do, including with people from other parties.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33- Right.- Right, well, the discussion's nearly over,
0:22:33 > 0:22:37so let's take a moment now for closing statements from each of you.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40Half a minute this time,
0:22:40 > 0:22:43starting with you, Dafydd Elis-Thomas, once again.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46- I have to start again, do I? - Yes, you do.- Well, let me close like this, then.
0:22:46 > 0:22:51The important thing we're facing at the moment is getting leadership which will move Wales's situation,
0:22:51 > 0:22:55which will face the situation and the need to create real jobs,
0:22:55 > 0:23:00and especially, will take care that Wales isn't pushed to the edge when the people of Scotland answer "yes"
0:23:00 > 0:23:05to the question of whether they want to be an independent country, and I can't wait to do that job.
0:23:05 > 0:23:07Dafydd, thanks very much. Elin Jones, half a minute.
0:23:07 > 0:23:12Well, we are facing a situation where there's a possibility
0:23:12 > 0:23:15that the United Kingdom will come to an end in 2014,
0:23:15 > 0:23:19and Plaid Cymru has to be ready to lead the discussion
0:23:19 > 0:23:22about what Wales's context is in that future.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25Plaid Cymru needs to be realistic, remember.
0:23:25 > 0:23:29Things that happen in Scotland won't necessarily happen in Wales,
0:23:29 > 0:23:34and so this party has to be ready to argue strongly for the future of our country,
0:23:34 > 0:23:37and take the opportunities which are ahead of us.
0:23:37 > 0:23:38Right, exactly half a minute.
0:23:38 > 0:23:43- And the last word tonight, half a minute for you, Leanne Wood. - Thanks.
0:23:43 > 0:23:49Well, the problems with the economy are very, very great,
0:23:49 > 0:23:56we need to connect the economy with independence, and now is the time.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00We, Plaid Cymru, have to argue the case for true independence.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02Thank you very much to you three,
0:24:02 > 0:24:07and thanks very much to Leanne Wood, as well, for being brave enough to take part in this experiment.
0:24:07 > 0:24:11I'm not sure if it's the first debate to use simultaneous translation,
0:24:11 > 0:24:15but you managed to get through it all in Welsh, so thank you very much.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18Yes, thanks to all three of you. That's it.
0:24:18 > 0:24:24We'll find out who won, of course, on March 15th, so plenty of debate still to come.
0:24:24 > 0:24:28There's no programme next week, by the way, the Assembly's in recess,
0:24:28 > 0:24:30but we'll be back in a fortnight.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34- Thanks for your company and goodnight.- Goodnight.- Goodnight.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd