0:00:19 > 0:00:24Good evening and welcome to CF99 for half an hour of discussion.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Tonight, a week before the local elections,
0:00:27 > 0:00:31we look at one of local Government's biggest duties, care for the elderly.
0:00:31 > 0:00:37Are you excited about the Olympics?
0:00:37 > 0:00:40Tonight, we look at its cultural side.
0:00:40 > 0:00:44Joining us here are Suzy Davies of the Conservatives,
0:00:44 > 0:00:47Myrddin Edwards of the Liberal Democrats
0:00:47 > 0:00:52and broadcaster Beti George. Welcome and happy birthday, Myrddin!
0:00:52 > 0:00:58There's only a week to go until we choose our new councillors.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01For those who will be elected, they face huge decisions.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04One of the biggest is how to provide care for the elderly
0:01:04 > 0:01:08when money is tight.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10After education, expenditure on Social Services,
0:01:10 > 0:01:15which includes elderly care, is the biggest cost for councils.
0:01:15 > 0:01:20Often it's families who shoulder the financial burden
0:01:20 > 0:01:22and that's a huge concern for many.
0:01:22 > 0:01:26James Williams has been assessing the challenges.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34A lunchtime club in the Tumble.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37Everybody over 60 years old is welcome here.
0:01:37 > 0:01:43They have an opportunity to socialise over lunch and bingo.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46But this group is very worried about the future.
0:01:46 > 0:01:53Now that I have more aches and pains, it does hit you.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56Thankfully, my mind is still active.
0:01:56 > 0:02:01You could get care in the community.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03It works well when it is good.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06But everything breaks down.
0:02:06 > 0:02:12If the carers are ill and if people don't come in for their shifts,
0:02:12 > 0:02:17it is difficult for elderly people.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20This kind of care is very expensive
0:02:20 > 0:02:24and this is a challenge that faces local authorities.
0:02:24 > 0:02:29How do you keep standards with less?
0:02:29 > 0:02:32The Welsh Government believes the current system isn't sustainable
0:02:32 > 0:02:36and they hope to change it by using new law-making powers.
0:02:36 > 0:02:42A consultation on elderly care will last until the summer.
0:02:42 > 0:02:48The aim is to give people more control over their own care.
0:02:48 > 0:02:51This is the first bill for Wales.
0:02:51 > 0:02:53It will give us legislation to go forward
0:02:53 > 0:02:59and to pull everyone together. It is important to move on.
0:03:02 > 0:03:07We need move the system to support people to live independently.
0:03:12 > 0:03:17I think that's what everybody is trying to aim towards,
0:03:17 > 0:03:23but creating such a system, which is about the needs
0:03:23 > 0:03:28of the individual is difficult and will take a lot of time.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31But what breaks the heart of many people
0:03:31 > 0:03:34is having to sell their homes to pay for care.
0:03:34 > 0:03:39The cost for staying in residential homes is a lottery across Wales.
0:03:39 > 0:03:44It depends on what is available locally.
0:03:46 > 0:03:51Anyone who has any money worth more than £23,000
0:03:51 > 0:03:54has to pay for their cost fully.
0:03:54 > 0:04:00In Cardiff, this ranges from just over £300 to £800 a week.
0:04:00 > 0:04:06In Gwynedd, just under £600 is the norm. It's £469 in Pembrokeshire.
0:04:08 > 0:04:13This is a copy of the Welsh Government's documents
0:04:13 > 0:04:15on charging the elderly for residential care.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19With over 120 pages, it's quite big,
0:04:19 > 0:04:23which shows you how complex this issue is.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25For one person receiving residential care,
0:04:25 > 0:04:27another three receive care in the home.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30The cost an individual pays for receiving care at home
0:04:30 > 0:04:33depends on a financial assessment.
0:04:33 > 0:04:37Those who can, pay towards their care.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41£50 a week is the maximum an individual pays.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45This isn't the situation for most people who need care.
0:04:45 > 0:04:5096% of the care in communities across Wales
0:04:50 > 0:04:56is done by volunteer carers.
0:04:56 > 0:05:01The majority of people who are carers
0:05:01 > 0:05:04are 50 years old and over.
0:05:04 > 0:05:08If you change the system, it will mean that those wanting care
0:05:08 > 0:05:14will receive less care in future.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17The pressure is going to be moved onto the carers.
0:05:17 > 0:05:25Local authorities are under pressure to make most of the cards
0:05:25 > 0:05:28they hold over the next few years.
0:05:28 > 0:05:36Beti George, viewers will have seen your film on dementia.
0:05:36 > 0:05:41But people of a certain age will need some sort of care
0:05:41 > 0:05:46- and that is costly. - Yes, it is.
0:05:46 > 0:05:51But I haven't had an opportunity to look into the cost yet.
0:05:51 > 0:05:56I have forms in the house that I am supposed to fill
0:05:56 > 0:06:02and that will give me £48 or something like that.
0:06:02 > 0:06:06There are so many things you can do.
0:06:06 > 0:06:12But where do you start? The cost?
0:06:12 > 0:06:18The most important thing for me is the standard of care.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21But it is so complex.
0:06:21 > 0:06:27Anyone who has had to deal with this, it's very complicated.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30If a person doesn't have a family
0:06:30 > 0:06:32they have to deal with this themselves.
0:06:32 > 0:06:37That's the point. Everybody should cooperate.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40The Health Service, Social Services and so on.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44Why aren't they? In Wales, we are a small country,
0:06:44 > 0:06:49it would be perfect to have some sort of scheme to have these things
0:06:49 > 0:06:55working together so people know who to turn to.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59But isn't this the new bill that is coming through,
0:06:59 > 0:07:03more cohesion between different departments?
0:07:03 > 0:07:06Isn't the Government trying to do this?
0:07:06 > 0:07:10We have commended Gwenda Thomas for her work on this.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13But things is going to be difficult now.
0:07:13 > 0:07:18People are living longer and it will put more pressure on the budget
0:07:18 > 0:07:24here in the Assembly and also across the councils.
0:07:24 > 0:07:29But there is a disconnect between the Health Service
0:07:29 > 0:07:30and Social Services.
0:07:30 > 0:07:34I have an example of somebody who went into hospital
0:07:34 > 0:07:36after breaking their leg.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38They were ready to go home,
0:07:38 > 0:07:41but there wasn't a connection between the hospital
0:07:41 > 0:07:47and the Social Services to make sure they could go home immediately.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50They had to wait weeks until the paperwork went through.
0:07:50 > 0:07:55That person stays in the hospital, is taking a bed that costs money,
0:07:55 > 0:07:58but they can't go home where they want to be.
0:07:58 > 0:08:03It is better for people to live independently at home.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06There is a delayed transfer of care now.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10The NHS and Social Services aren't cooperating.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13It is a waste of money but it also a burden on the individual.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17Suzy, people in the different departments
0:08:17 > 0:08:21are trying to protect their own budgets.
0:08:21 > 0:08:25If a person is in hospital, the Social Services
0:08:25 > 0:08:30don't have to pay for the care, so they save money in that case.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32This does happen.
0:08:32 > 0:08:38They need to work closer together.
0:08:38 > 0:08:44This unfortunately doesn't happen.
0:08:44 > 0:08:49Doctors and voluntary groups are trying to work together
0:08:49 > 0:08:53so people can remain at home.
0:08:53 > 0:08:59But there are some examples where doctors
0:08:59 > 0:09:02don't buy into that system.
0:09:02 > 0:09:08So people go into hospital when there's no need.
0:09:08 > 0:09:14But what about these carers? They are usually family members?
0:09:14 > 0:09:19That saves £8 billion to the Westminster Government every year.
0:09:23 > 0:09:30- But should family members be paid to do this work?- I don't know.
0:09:30 > 0:09:37When they mentioned the prices of residential care,
0:09:37 > 0:09:42when I did my programme, they mentioned that they would charge
0:09:42 > 0:09:45people with dementia £2,000.
0:09:45 > 0:09:51That is the cost of good care.
0:09:51 > 0:09:56- We are talking about £2,000 a week. - Who can afford that?
0:09:56 > 0:09:59That is a problem.
0:09:59 > 0:10:04I have another example of a couple, where the woman has dementia
0:10:04 > 0:10:07and the husband who is in his 80s needs a break.
0:10:07 > 0:10:12He isn't a burden, but he's had to pay £2,000
0:10:12 > 0:10:15to put her in a home for two weeks for him to have respite care.
0:10:15 > 0:10:21The daughter has tried to sort this out
0:10:21 > 0:10:25between the local authorities and the NHS.
0:10:25 > 0:10:30Trying to get respite care is really complicated.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34This person works in the Health Service
0:10:34 > 0:10:36and knows what she is talking about.
0:10:36 > 0:10:41She has insisted on having this care.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45But who can afford £2,000 a week?
0:10:45 > 0:10:51If the individual can't, then a local authority has to pay.
0:10:51 > 0:10:56How can a local authority afford £2,200 a week?
0:10:56 > 0:11:00What is cheaper for the council? Wouldn't it be better for them
0:11:00 > 0:11:07to have their own unit, as I showed in my film?
0:11:07 > 0:11:10One would be in Llan Ffestiniog.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12Rather than depending on the private sector?
0:11:12 > 0:11:15Let's raise the private sector now.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19I don't know if you watched the Panorama programme this week,
0:11:19 > 0:11:24that is worrying families.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27If you have to put a person into residential care,
0:11:27 > 0:11:32you want to make sure that they're receiving the best care.
0:11:32 > 0:11:38A daughter watched her mother being treated awfully.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42There is no excuse for such low standards.
0:11:45 > 0:11:50I hope it doesn't happen anywhere,
0:11:50 > 0:11:55but I'm sure there are examples out there.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59I am pleased this has been shown on this television programme.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03All the parties in the Welsh Government
0:12:03 > 0:12:09are looking at expertise in residential care at the moment.
0:12:09 > 0:12:14Why not have a nurse who is an expert in dementia
0:12:14 > 0:12:17in every residential home?
0:12:18 > 0:12:24There is a lesson here for politicians and society here.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28Why doesn't society look after their elderly?
0:12:28 > 0:12:31In countries such as Japan and France,
0:12:31 > 0:12:34families take care of their elderly members.
0:12:34 > 0:12:38That is one of the things that worries me.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42Society isn't aware of what the needs are of people.
0:12:42 > 0:12:48I am living with someone with Alzheimer's disease.
0:12:48 > 0:12:56It is a responsibility on us in the media to raise awareness,
0:12:57 > 0:13:03the Welsh Government has to do more about the matter.
0:13:03 > 0:13:10- We need to raise awareness on this. - Should we put more money into it?
0:13:12 > 0:13:17Money doesn't always work.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20We need to have better care.
0:13:20 > 0:13:25I saw some out there that wasn't acceptable at all.
0:13:27 > 0:13:32I also saw excellent care. Why can't we have that throughout Wales?
0:13:34 > 0:13:36The problem is getting worse.
0:13:36 > 0:13:41There are 37,000 people in Wales who are living with dementia.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45That will grow by 21% in the next few years.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48It is something that we will have to look at in future.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54We need to deal with it, because it will be a problem.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57It is as if they are trying to hide it.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00They need to tackle it now.
0:14:00 > 0:14:07Wales is the perfect place to have an example for other countries.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10It's small. We all know each other.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13The Government here should be tackling this now.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17They should be saying that Wales will care for elderly people.
0:14:17 > 0:14:20Wales is a small country. We all know each other.
0:14:20 > 0:14:25We are a country that has a name for being caring.
0:14:25 > 0:14:31The Government should show that Wales can tackle this problem.
0:14:31 > 0:14:37They should be saying that Wales will show an example.
0:14:37 > 0:14:44Stirling has made itself a dementia friendly town.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Glasgow has the same plans.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53Scotland is in the lead now. I don't like that.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55I want to see Wales leading the way.
0:14:55 > 0:14:56Thank you very much.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59On that note, there's exactly three months to go
0:14:59 > 0:15:01before the start of the Olympic Games in London.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03They'll be starting in Cardiff, as it happens,
0:15:03 > 0:15:06with the football games at the Millennium Stadium.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09But it's not only athletes who'll be taking part.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12Over the next few months, a number of cultural events will also be held
0:15:12 > 0:15:19across Wales and the rest of the UK, as part of the Cultural Olympiad.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21Elliw Gwawr has more.
0:15:21 > 0:15:26The original Olympic Games in Greece was a sport and arts festival,
0:15:26 > 0:15:31and when the Olympic Games came to London the last time in 1948,
0:15:31 > 0:15:35poets and artists celebrated their work side by side with the athletes.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37And they could even win medals.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40There's been considerable criticism of the amount of money
0:15:40 > 0:15:45being spent on the London Olympic Games at the expense of Wales.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49But as the Cultural Olympiad is launched here in Cardiff,
0:15:49 > 0:15:52the organisers hope that people from all over Wales
0:15:52 > 0:15:55will be able to take advantage of the cultural events in their area.
0:15:55 > 0:16:03My first duty was securing £1.67 million back for Wales,
0:16:03 > 0:16:06and with that money, we've developed projects
0:16:06 > 0:16:08that have been running for four years,
0:16:08 > 0:16:14which are now worth £3 million, and I think we're making the most of it.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18Over the next few months, a number of performances and events
0:16:18 > 0:16:22are being held across Wales as part of the Cultural Olympiad.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25And one of those projects is Adain Avion,
0:16:25 > 0:16:30and old plane which has been transformed into a mobile art space,
0:16:30 > 0:16:32which will travel around Wales.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34It's great, of course,
0:16:34 > 0:16:38to be directly connected with the Olympic Games,
0:16:38 > 0:16:40and also that people across Wales feel they're taking part,
0:16:40 > 0:16:43that it's not just in London.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45So there's a chance for people to get involved with the arts.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47Of course, in the original Olympic Games,
0:16:47 > 0:16:50there were prizes for artists,
0:16:50 > 0:16:53so this, in a way, praises artists in Wales.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55And as part of the plan,
0:16:55 > 0:16:59the artist Owen Griffiths has worked with local people
0:16:59 > 0:17:01to transform part of the Vetch, Swansea FC's old home,
0:17:01 > 0:17:05into a vegetable garden for the community.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10But will the events succeed in making people here in Wales
0:17:10 > 0:17:12feel part of the Olympic Games?
0:17:12 > 0:17:14There are events across Britain,
0:17:14 > 0:17:16but not much money is being spent on them
0:17:16 > 0:17:20compared to the huge, some would argue disastrously huge,
0:17:20 > 0:17:24amount being spent on sports in London.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27But with that, of course, some things are coming to Wales,
0:17:27 > 0:17:30and Adain Avion is one example of that,
0:17:30 > 0:17:34because it's something that will, hopefully, unite different places
0:17:34 > 0:17:38which perhaps don't see themselves as being part of the same union.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42So do the Games give an international stage
0:17:42 > 0:17:44to Welsh artists as well as athletes?
0:17:44 > 0:17:47Or are the eyes of the world only on London?
0:17:47 > 0:17:51Well, Myrddin, it's an old tradition, of course,
0:17:51 > 0:17:53to combine all the sports and cultural sides,
0:17:53 > 0:17:56it's been going for four years this time,
0:17:56 > 0:18:00but there's not much excitement, is there, about this Cultural Olympiad?
0:18:00 > 0:18:03I did some research and looked for what exactly this is,
0:18:03 > 0:18:06and as you say, it's been running for four years,
0:18:06 > 0:18:08but I haven't heard much mention of it.
0:18:08 > 0:18:13And we're talking now about how much money comes to Wales for the arts,
0:18:13 > 0:18:15and of course that's very small money
0:18:15 > 0:18:19compared to what's been lost through funding the Olympics.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23I do agree with the Olympics, and it will be a stage for Britain,
0:18:23 > 0:18:27and hopefully Wales, to sell itself to the world, and I hope...
0:18:27 > 0:18:30Yes, what is there for Wales at the Olympics?
0:18:30 > 0:18:33Not only culturally, but the whole thing.
0:18:33 > 0:18:34Well, that's the thing.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37We've been complaining about this at the Assembly for some time.
0:18:37 > 0:18:41We don't think the Welsh Government, Labour and Plaid Cymru at the time,
0:18:41 > 0:18:44has done enough to take advantage of the contracts
0:18:44 > 0:18:46which were won across the UK.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49Scotland and Northern Ireland won millions and millions
0:18:49 > 0:18:51in the Tier One project, the big projects,
0:18:51 > 0:18:55where companies from Wales could profit from the Olympics.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59We looked into how much representation the Government made,
0:18:59 > 0:19:01Ieuan Wyn Jones's department
0:19:01 > 0:19:05when he was Minister for the Economy at the time.
0:19:05 > 0:19:12Not much at all, not even contacting the Olympics Committee to see...
0:19:12 > 0:19:15Well, to be fair, the argued back at the time, didn't they,
0:19:15 > 0:19:17this was raised by Guto Harri, wasn't it,
0:19:17 > 0:19:21when he said Wales has to try its best to be enthusiastic.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24Compared to what the Scottish and Northern Irish governments did,
0:19:24 > 0:19:27they went out and said, "Right, this is coming, there's lots of money.
0:19:27 > 0:19:29"What can we do to get more money?"
0:19:29 > 0:19:31That's what the Assembly Government didn't do.
0:19:31 > 0:19:36Suzy Davies, £1.6 billion isn't a small amount,
0:19:36 > 0:19:38it's not small change you find down the back of the sofa.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42But the point is, compared to what's taken from the Lottery funds,
0:19:42 > 0:19:47which funds the arts, heritage and so on in Wales,
0:19:47 > 0:19:48it's not much, is it?
0:19:48 > 0:19:52You know, the arts in Wales have suffered because of the Olympics.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55Well, I'm glad to see any money coming back to Wales
0:19:55 > 0:19:58to support the arts and heritage, of course.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01We don't get much and we don't spend much
0:20:01 > 0:20:03on these subjects in Wales anyway,
0:20:03 > 0:20:06so I welcome any money that comes here,
0:20:06 > 0:20:10but as Myrddin said, not many people know this is happening.
0:20:10 > 0:20:15I'm sure people taking part in the Cultural Olympiad
0:20:15 > 0:20:19will get a lot of it, but when the minister said, for example,
0:20:19 > 0:20:23that 95% of people will be within two or three miles
0:20:23 > 0:20:28of a Cultural Olympiad event, well, I'm not sure that that will happen.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31And also, there's not a great theme to it, is there?
0:20:31 > 0:20:33You know, much of it is things, you think,
0:20:33 > 0:20:36well, yes, it's possible enough that a Welsh national theatre company
0:20:36 > 0:20:39would have presented a Shakespeare play at the Eisteddfod anyway.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41That that's where the money has gone.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43Well, there's a point there,
0:20:43 > 0:20:47because there are four specific projects which go across Wales,
0:20:47 > 0:20:52but it's open to anyone to make a bid to be part of that.
0:20:52 > 0:20:5516 million people have taken part in the performances, it seems,
0:20:55 > 0:20:58have seen them across the Olympiad, so far,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01but Beti, this Olympiad is supposed to inspire people.
0:21:01 > 0:21:05Do you think there'll be a cultural inheritance after the Games?
0:21:05 > 0:21:06I don't think so.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08That is, these things happen.
0:21:08 > 0:21:12As Vaughan suggested, I think these things would happen anyway.
0:21:12 > 0:21:16And I do welcome any cultural things happening in Wales.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19But the question that I ask is,
0:21:19 > 0:21:23we can afford these things, we can afford the Olympic Games and things,
0:21:23 > 0:21:27but we can't afford to look after our old people.
0:21:27 > 0:21:32So would you be interested in... Have you bought tickets?
0:21:32 > 0:21:35- Goodness, no.- A boycott. - Yes.- Really?- Yes.
0:21:35 > 0:21:37Myrddin, do you feel so strongly?
0:21:37 > 0:21:40Um... No, I'd like to go, I'd like to be a steward in London,
0:21:40 > 0:21:42to try to be part of it,
0:21:42 > 0:21:46because the last time it was here was in 195...
0:21:46 > 0:21:47- ..48.- 48!
0:21:47 > 0:21:50And of course, I wasn't alive then.
0:21:50 > 0:21:51THEY LAUGH
0:21:51 > 0:21:54- But, um...- Me neither, if you're suggesting otherwise!
0:21:54 > 0:21:55- THEY LAUGH - I was!
0:21:55 > 0:21:57- THEY LAUGH - And I don't remember anything about it.
0:21:57 > 0:21:58And, you know, I want to...
0:21:58 > 0:22:00I'd like to be part of it,
0:22:00 > 0:22:01but I am looking forward to the Olympic Games,
0:22:01 > 0:22:04because I hope it can sell Britain and Wales to the world, and...
0:22:04 > 0:22:06You must be in favour, Suzy.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08Well, I don't see much inheritance for Wales, I must admit.
0:22:08 > 0:22:13Of course, there's no money to build theatres or performance spaces.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16But as Myrddin said, in the first place,
0:22:16 > 0:22:19the whole Olympics didn't have enough ambition.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22And yet, the whole thing starts here in Cardiff,
0:22:22 > 0:22:24the whole thing starts here in Cardiff, doesn't it,
0:22:24 > 0:22:26and there are tickets left for the first football game.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29Well, there's a lot more to Wales than Cardiff.
0:22:29 > 0:22:30Right.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34We have a chance now to raise the big question of the week,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37will Jeremy Hunt still be in his job in time to get Olympic tickets?
0:22:37 > 0:22:38- Beti.- No, he won't.
0:22:38 > 0:22:39No, he won't.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41- Yes, he will. - THEY LAUGH
0:22:41 > 0:22:43What did you make of his performance today, Suzy?
0:22:43 > 0:22:46Since we're talking about the Olympics, to do with the Olympics.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48I didn't see that, of course, because I was down in the Assembly,
0:22:48 > 0:22:51but I've seen some of it on the news afterwards.
0:22:51 > 0:22:52He's just said,
0:22:52 > 0:22:54"I'm coming to Westminster to say
0:22:54 > 0:22:57I'll be taking part in the Leveson Inquiry too."
0:22:57 > 0:22:58We'll see what he says.
0:22:58 > 0:22:59I see him...
0:22:59 > 0:23:02- Vince Cable said the opposite thing...- Yeah.
0:23:02 > 0:23:04That he was against the merger with Murdoch,
0:23:04 > 0:23:06he said, "Declare war against Murdoch,"
0:23:06 > 0:23:09so he was taken from that role, so I think it's right that Jeremy Hunt,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11that something happens to Jeremy Hunt,
0:23:11 > 0:23:13that he takes responsibility too,
0:23:13 > 0:23:16because he's meant to be like a judge, taking neither side,
0:23:16 > 0:23:18and making his own decision,
0:23:18 > 0:23:22but it's clear that before going into this process,
0:23:22 > 0:23:24he was on the side of the Murdochs.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27And Beti, I sense you wouldn't be sad to see the back of him.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30Well no, when I remember what he said about S4C
0:23:30 > 0:23:35before he changed his mind, he wasn't especially kind.
0:23:35 > 0:23:40He was like... He knew nothing about S4C or the Welsh language.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43No, I wouldn't miss him, I must say.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45Right, well, that's it, we'll see,
0:23:45 > 0:23:47maybe he'll be here next week, maybe not,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50but we'll certainly be back next week.
0:23:50 > 0:23:54A little later than usual next week, 10.05pm,
0:23:54 > 0:23:56on the eve of the election, of course,
0:23:56 > 0:24:00so we'll have members of the four main parties with us next week.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03Until then, thanks for your company and goodnight.
0:24:03 > 0:24:04Goodnight.