0:00:20 > 0:00:23Good evening and welcome to half an hour of political discussion,
0:00:23 > 0:00:24live from the Senedd.
0:00:24 > 0:00:26Tonight, the Welsh Language Commissioner
0:00:26 > 0:00:28proposes new standards for institutions,
0:00:28 > 0:00:31but amidst the savings, how much welcome will there be
0:00:31 > 0:00:35for her challenge to improve Welsh language services?
0:00:35 > 0:00:37And should a teacher in Barry get the same salary
0:00:37 > 0:00:39as one in Barnet?
0:00:39 > 0:00:43We'll get to the heart of the debate about regional pay.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46And, as ever, you're welcome to join the debate via Twitter,
0:00:46 > 0:00:48using the hashtag #CF99.
0:00:48 > 0:00:53Here to debate tonight are the Plaid Cymru AM, Llyr Huws Griffiths,
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Eric Davies, a spokesman for the CBI in Wales,
0:00:55 > 0:00:59and Sian Howys from Cymdeithas yr Iaith is in our Aberystwyth studio.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Welcome to you three.
0:01:01 > 0:01:06I wonder how good Welsh language services are in your area?
0:01:06 > 0:01:08From today until the end of the National Eisteddfod,
0:01:08 > 0:01:11the Welsh Language Commissioner wants the opinions
0:01:11 > 0:01:15of as many people as possible on new standards which will be set
0:01:15 > 0:01:17on institutions and companies.
0:01:17 > 0:01:19According to Meri Huws, the aim of these standards
0:01:19 > 0:01:23will be to strengthen the place Welsh has in every aspect of life in Wales.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26Well, before the first public meeting tonight in Cardiff,
0:01:26 > 0:01:30Meri Huws explained to me what the purpose of the standards was.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33In setting these standards,
0:01:33 > 0:01:37what was driving us was actioning the Measure,
0:01:37 > 0:01:39ensuring the status of the Welsh language,
0:01:39 > 0:01:42and I think that's important for us to acknowledge,
0:01:42 > 0:01:47and developing standards which create consistency,
0:01:47 > 0:01:51which are clear to the provider and the user,
0:01:51 > 0:01:56and which allow those bodies across Wales to plan ahead.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58Shall we look at some examples, then?
0:01:58 > 0:01:59For example,
0:01:59 > 0:02:03if someone in a council-owned old people's home in Carmarthenshire
0:02:03 > 0:02:05wanted a Welsh-speaking nurse,
0:02:05 > 0:02:08would that individual have the right to insist
0:02:08 > 0:02:10on a Welsh-speaking nurse?
0:02:12 > 0:02:16When the standards are accepted and actioned,
0:02:16 > 0:02:21and are actioned in the health board in that particular area,
0:02:21 > 0:02:24the standard says that a service needs to be maintained
0:02:24 > 0:02:30according to the individual's language requirements.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32That standard would have to be actioned.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34And if they don't provide a Welsh-speaking nurse,
0:02:34 > 0:02:35what could you do?
0:02:35 > 0:02:39What would happen then was we'd expect a complaint,
0:02:39 > 0:02:41or we as part of our monitoring process
0:02:41 > 0:02:46would see that they weren't providing it.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49But the complaints process will be extremely important
0:02:49 > 0:02:53to enable us to recognise when people fail to reach the standards.
0:02:53 > 0:02:55And would they then be fined?
0:02:55 > 0:02:59There's a fine, that possibility is in the Measure,
0:02:59 > 0:03:03and I hope we won't have to use that too often, but it's there.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06There was a big debate during the Measure
0:03:06 > 0:03:09about goodwill and obligation.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12Are you worried that a lot of goodwill will now be lost
0:03:12 > 0:03:16because these standards will seem very drastic to a great many people.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19We're talking about a period of years.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22And then, I hope, in opening the discussion
0:03:22 > 0:03:27from how these standards look to the user and the provider,
0:03:27 > 0:03:29we'll get understanding.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31And I've already been astonished by people saying,
0:03:31 > 0:03:38"Fine, I understand, it's now law. How can we succeed, then?"
0:03:38 > 0:03:40And fairly unlikely people saying that.
0:03:40 > 0:03:44In terms of the timetable, you're what, many years, how long?
0:03:44 > 0:03:46It's... Let me remind you too
0:03:46 > 0:03:49that we've only been around for six weeks.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52So I think we've done extremely well
0:03:52 > 0:03:56to get a document like this out within six weeks,
0:03:56 > 0:03:59knowing that people want things to change.
0:03:59 > 0:04:05The Measure sets out a process of putting these standards in place,
0:04:05 > 0:04:07turning them into law.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11Once they're in place, we'll action them straight away.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13We don't want to sit around, either.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15In terms of the entry at the Assembly,
0:04:15 > 0:04:18the Assembly itself breaks these standards at the moment.
0:04:18 > 0:04:19At the moment.
0:04:19 > 0:04:25So they'd have to improve, as well, and set an example?
0:04:25 > 0:04:27I think as standards are actioned,
0:04:27 > 0:04:32they'll want to conform fully with those standards.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35Or the Assembly could be fined.
0:04:35 > 0:04:36That's a possibility.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40At the beginning of a consultation like this one,
0:04:40 > 0:04:42many people would say you're setting the bar high.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45Is your aim to know...
0:04:45 > 0:04:48Was it your mindset to know it would have to be lowered?
0:04:48 > 0:04:54If there are strong arguments to move the bar in any direction,
0:04:54 > 0:04:56up or down, we'll listen.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00And lastly, do you feel in terms of legislation,
0:05:00 > 0:05:04that the language is in a stable enough condition at the moment,
0:05:04 > 0:05:09or do you foresee that a new Welsh Language Measure will be needed?
0:05:09 > 0:05:13Well, one of the duties of the Welsh Language Commissioner
0:05:13 > 0:05:15is to feed into that process.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19I'd foresee, perhaps, that that situation would arise quite quickly,
0:05:19 > 0:05:25not needing a new law or measure, but reform of the current one.
0:05:25 > 0:05:26Meri Huws.
0:05:26 > 0:05:31Sian Howys, I think I'm right in saying that this idea of standards
0:05:31 > 0:05:34hasn't been used anywhere else in the world.
0:05:34 > 0:05:38How confident are you that this idea could work,
0:05:38 > 0:05:41and work more effectively than the old system
0:05:41 > 0:05:43of public sector language schemes?
0:05:43 > 0:05:45It's really hard to know, isn't it?
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Of course, we have worries about the Measure itself,
0:05:48 > 0:05:50in terms of the standards,
0:05:50 > 0:05:54that they're unbalanced in that they give too much focus
0:05:54 > 0:05:56to the institutions and bodies themselves,
0:05:56 > 0:05:59rather than prioritising people's needs.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01The people of Wales want to see a shift.
0:06:01 > 0:06:05They want to see change in terms of creating a bilingual society,
0:06:05 > 0:06:10ensuring services, ensuring the right to use the Welsh language.
0:06:10 > 0:06:11That's what we want to see,
0:06:11 > 0:06:14and so what's important is that the standards can now
0:06:14 > 0:06:17deliver that right to use the Welsh language,
0:06:17 > 0:06:21and don't give some get-out clauses to institutions and bodies.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24That they're simple and clear, and that it means there will be change
0:06:24 > 0:06:29in a way which moves things forward from the old language schemes.
0:06:29 > 0:06:31Policing is important, isn't it,
0:06:31 > 0:06:34because we all know of examples of public bodies
0:06:34 > 0:06:37which had good enough language schemes,
0:06:37 > 0:06:40but if you went, for examples, to their website,
0:06:40 > 0:06:44they'd be for years "working towards a Welsh-language website,"
0:06:44 > 0:06:44and so on.
0:06:44 > 0:06:49Is that right for the individual to complain to the Commissioner,
0:06:49 > 0:06:52and for the Commissioner to levy a fine, a key element?
0:06:52 > 0:06:57It is key, and of course, we campaigned for a long time,
0:06:57 > 0:07:01and an important part of what we were asking for as a society
0:07:01 > 0:07:05was a commissioner, to be a champion for the people of Wales
0:07:05 > 0:07:06in terms of using the Welsh language,
0:07:06 > 0:07:08and that will be important too,
0:07:08 > 0:07:11that the commissioner expects to be available
0:07:11 > 0:07:15to listen to the people of Wales and take action
0:07:15 > 0:07:17on behalf of service users, and shows that side,
0:07:17 > 0:07:19of giving the obligation when it's needed,
0:07:19 > 0:07:21because that's certainly what was missing
0:07:21 > 0:07:23in the previous language act.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27Eric Davies, we've been mainly discussing the public sector,
0:07:27 > 0:07:28but in terms of the business world,
0:07:28 > 0:07:32companies which receive more than £400,000, for example,
0:07:32 > 0:07:34from the public purse, will be affected here,
0:07:34 > 0:07:39and smaller companies which perhaps do work for councils, and so on.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42What will the response be in the private sector?
0:07:42 > 0:07:47Quite a bit of turmoil on reading the consultation for the first time.
0:07:47 > 0:07:51Once any businessman hears the words "law" and "obligation,"
0:07:51 > 0:07:57"you are obliged to conform," it will cause some alarm,
0:07:57 > 0:07:59and many of our members are very dubious about it.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02If you get a £400,000 grant towards a project
0:08:02 > 0:08:06that perhaps costs £2 million or £3 million,
0:08:06 > 0:08:09and when we're asking for investment into Wales,
0:08:09 > 0:08:12this raises another question, if you like,
0:08:12 > 0:08:16for the campaign to get people into Wales...
0:08:16 > 0:08:18Are you suggesting they're keeping away because of this?
0:08:18 > 0:08:21Perhaps not keeping away because of this, but it may be a shock
0:08:21 > 0:08:29if there's an obligation to conform fully if you receive £400,000.
0:08:29 > 0:08:31It's not a huge sum,
0:08:31 > 0:08:35compared with the investment we're asking for in Wales.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38Llyr, it strikes me that if you're a private company
0:08:38 > 0:08:41that has a long-term contract with the public sector,
0:08:41 > 0:08:45there are all kinds of things you have to do to fulfil your contract,
0:08:45 > 0:08:46and that's reasonable.
0:08:46 > 0:08:50It's perhaps harder for a company bidding for one piece of work,
0:08:50 > 0:08:54which perhaps only lasts six or nine months.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56I'd think that would be more of a problem.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58Well, you use the word "problem,"
0:08:58 > 0:09:01perhaps it's more of a challenge, you know, for those businesses,
0:09:01 > 0:09:05but the reality is that if they want the work,
0:09:05 > 0:09:09they're expected to reach a whole host of standards and expectations,
0:09:09 > 0:09:12in terms of insurance, in terms of being properly qualified, and so on,
0:09:12 > 0:09:18and I don't see the right or the ability to provide a service
0:09:18 > 0:09:21in someone's preferred language...
0:09:21 > 0:09:24- It's another thing to add to all those things, isn't it? - Of course it is.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26And if you're a company, perhaps especially a small company,
0:09:26 > 0:09:29weighing up whether or not to make a bid, you know,
0:09:29 > 0:09:31we hear frequently in this place
0:09:31 > 0:09:33that small companies find it hard to get contracts
0:09:33 > 0:09:35because there are expectations in so many fields.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37It's an extra expectation, isn't it?
0:09:37 > 0:09:41Yes, but the expectations from small businesses will be proportionate,
0:09:41 > 0:09:43I'd imagine, with what's practical, I'd assume.
0:09:43 > 0:09:46But the truth is, of course, we're looking at it as a problem.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49Many people in the private sector see bilingualism, for example,
0:09:49 > 0:09:51as a chance to reach a new, wider audience,
0:09:51 > 0:09:54where customers can identify better with their business,
0:09:54 > 0:09:57and therefore use their business above others.
0:09:57 > 0:09:59Right, but there'll be a cost, won't there, Sian Howys?
0:09:59 > 0:10:02It will cost companies to action this,
0:10:02 > 0:10:05and that during a time of big cuts and savings.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10Every pound that is invested in Welsh language services
0:10:10 > 0:10:13will stay in Wales.
0:10:13 > 0:10:17It will help to strengthen our economy,
0:10:17 > 0:10:20because it is only here that it can happen.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22That is a very important issue.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25Eric Davies, what is your reaction to that?
0:10:25 > 0:10:28We have built up a lot of goodwill through the process.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30Mary Huws has been part of that process.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34Good will has been built but you have to consider
0:10:34 > 0:10:37whether it is profitable for the business.
0:10:37 > 0:10:42I have recruited Welsh speakers because it helps my business.
0:10:42 > 0:10:50Employing people who speak different languages helps the company
0:10:50 > 0:10:58with business. It gives me extra opportunities in business.
0:10:58 > 0:11:03And that is what drives businesses.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07As Welsh speakers, we should be using Welsh more in business.
0:11:07 > 0:11:12Llyr, there's a problem where you have a company
0:11:12 > 0:11:16which deals face to face with the public in Wales,
0:11:16 > 0:11:18such as a supermarket or a bank.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22We have seen these companies putting up bilingual signs,
0:11:22 > 0:11:28some in the Welsh language even, but it is much more difficult
0:11:28 > 0:11:32to deal with companies that operate on the internet
0:11:32 > 0:11:36and could be based outside of Britain.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40I'm sure these factors have been considered by the Commissioner.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44It is a long-term issue.
0:11:44 > 0:11:50This'll will not happen at the flick of a switch.
0:11:50 > 0:11:55Eric was talking about recruiting Welsh speakers.
0:11:55 > 0:12:01This will be a factor when this is implemented.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04But I am pleading on Meri Huws to be brave about this.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07There is a chance here to change culture.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11It is important that Welsh speakers consider their rights
0:12:11 > 0:12:14but providers when they consider the rights of Welsh speakers.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17If the Commissioner doesn't show a bit of courage,
0:12:17 > 0:12:20I'm worried we'll miss an opportunity to change our culture
0:12:20 > 0:12:23sooner than what we would have wanted.
0:12:23 > 0:12:27Are the policing powers strong enough?
0:12:27 > 0:12:31A fine of £5,000 isn't going to mean a lot though these large companies.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35No. When you look at the annual reports,
0:12:35 > 0:12:40we'll have to make sure this isn't a tick box exercise
0:12:40 > 0:12:45for some officer somewhere.
0:12:45 > 0:12:50It will be important for the Commissioner
0:12:50 > 0:12:52to listen to the people of Wales.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56As a Welsh Language Society, we still receives complaints.
0:12:56 > 0:13:00We'll be handing over a black book to Meri Huws
0:13:00 > 0:13:03when we meet here in June.
0:13:03 > 0:13:08It is important that she is available and that she responds.
0:13:08 > 0:13:13It is important that people can have confidence in her
0:13:13 > 0:13:18and that she understands the problems that Welsh speakers face.
0:13:18 > 0:13:21You said the reaction will not be too good to start
0:13:21 > 0:13:24but then time will mellow things.
0:13:24 > 0:13:30That is what goodwill is all about. Business is not anti-Welsh.
0:13:30 > 0:13:37Business priorities concentrate now on keeping above water.
0:13:37 > 0:13:43But you have to look to the future rather than the short term.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46Do public sector workers earn too much?
0:13:46 > 0:13:51The Welsh Government doesn't think so and the other parties here agree.
0:13:51 > 0:13:55Chancellor George Osborne argues that a regional pay system
0:13:55 > 0:13:58needs to be introduced to boost the private sector
0:13:58 > 0:14:01and to create a more balanced economy.
0:14:01 > 0:14:02James Williams has more.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10The start of the day at Nantgaredig School in Carmarthenshire.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13They are learning about the hungry caterpillar.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16They learn about the dangers of eating too much.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20It is an important lesson for the public sector
0:14:20 > 0:14:23after years of inflated wages.
0:14:23 > 0:14:28Introducing regional pay would mean that some workers like teachers
0:14:28 > 0:14:32would receive a salary that would vary from region to region.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35Following the Budget, Westminster ministers said
0:14:35 > 0:14:38that they should consider introducing such a system
0:14:38 > 0:14:42because they have evidence showing big difference
0:14:42 > 0:14:45between public sector and private sector pay.
0:14:45 > 0:14:49But the Welsh Government argues that this isn't true.
0:14:49 > 0:14:54According to Treasury figures, Wales has the largest pay gap.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58Public sector workers are paid up to 18% more
0:14:58 > 0:15:02than their private sector counterparts.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05Across Britain the average is 8.3%.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09But the Welsh Government has put across new evidence
0:15:09 > 0:15:12which has found a smaller total.
0:15:12 > 0:15:17Assembly parties, including the Tories and the Liberal Democrats
0:15:17 > 0:15:20have united against the plans which have angered the unions.
0:15:20 > 0:15:25We have national pay rates.
0:15:25 > 0:15:30The current Government is trying to attack that.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33What will happen after this?
0:15:33 > 0:15:37This is the annual dinner of the Federation of Small Businesses.
0:15:37 > 0:15:43Whilst the body itself faces a regional pay, not everyone agrees.
0:15:43 > 0:15:50The private sector is suffering with the economy at the moment
0:15:50 > 0:15:53and there is no spare money.
0:15:53 > 0:15:58If you want to attract the right people,
0:15:58 > 0:16:00you have to be willing to pay,
0:16:00 > 0:16:03but the public sector press the private sector.
0:16:03 > 0:16:08People in the public sector get paid the same amount
0:16:08 > 0:16:11no matter where they live.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14This cuts the market, in a way.
0:16:14 > 0:16:20That means private sector companies in Wales cannot compete.
0:16:20 > 0:16:24More than 50 MPs called on the Government
0:16:24 > 0:16:27not to press on with its plans regarding this issue.
0:16:27 > 0:16:32An independent body on salaries is looking into this at present.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36We will have to wait until the summer for the results.
0:16:36 > 0:16:41Eric Davies, let's start with the argument
0:16:41 > 0:16:44in favour of regional pay.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48Speaking on behalf of the CBI,
0:16:48 > 0:16:53we believe people in the public sector should be paid
0:16:53 > 0:16:58regarding what's happening in the local economy.
0:16:58 > 0:17:04There's a difference of around 10-15% between the public
0:17:04 > 0:17:07and private sectors.
0:17:07 > 0:17:13There is also a difference of some 8% or 18% or 14%
0:17:13 > 0:17:17between the public and private sector.
0:17:17 > 0:17:19When you put these things together,
0:17:19 > 0:17:22it is only fair that public companies
0:17:22 > 0:17:26are allowed to compete in the market.
0:17:26 > 0:17:31But with less to spend, the local economy will suffer.
0:17:31 > 0:17:36The private sector helps to pay for the public sector
0:17:36 > 0:17:43and we need the same kind of response in the sector
0:17:43 > 0:17:46regarding pay and contracts.
0:17:46 > 0:17:52Local authorities go for the lowest price.
0:17:52 > 0:17:58I can guess that the same thing is true in the public service.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01But you're not going to strengthen the private sector in Wales
0:18:01 > 0:18:03by weakening the public sector.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05Let us look at the principle.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08We often hear from the unions
0:18:08 > 0:18:13that a nurse should be paid the same no matter where she works.
0:18:13 > 0:18:20But she should get the same standard of living as well.
0:18:20 > 0:18:26But you can live quite comfortably on £40,000 in Wales
0:18:26 > 0:18:31but you would not be able to in the south-east of England.
0:18:31 > 0:18:36No, I disagree. The Government is saying
0:18:36 > 0:18:40because you are poor will you be paid less.
0:18:40 > 0:18:45You will lose good workers to better places
0:18:45 > 0:18:49and services will suffer.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51You will see the economy suffering
0:18:51 > 0:18:55because there is less money in that economy.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58It is just helping the poverty.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02Your party argued in favour of devolving teachers pay.
0:19:02 > 0:19:07Unions have recognised that there's a difference between regional pay
0:19:07 > 0:19:11and devolution of pay.
0:19:11 > 0:19:17- Would you be paying more? - No, we would not be doing that.
0:19:17 > 0:19:23We would just be able to defend the level we have.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27There has been a difference in courts which came in under Labour
0:19:27 > 0:19:31and there wasn't a revolution then.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34It has been settled and everything's fine.
0:19:34 > 0:19:41If it happens across the board then it will lead to poverty in Wales.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44Our economy depends heavily on the public sector.
0:19:44 > 0:19:49Many areas such as the one I live in depend on the public sector.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53The public sector is dependent on the private sector.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57There'll be less money around and it will lead to more poverty.
0:19:57 > 0:20:01These are Tory policies.
0:20:01 > 0:20:08The Government of Wales say they do not want this kind of competition
0:20:08 > 0:20:13and the capitalistic market extending.
0:20:13 > 0:20:17Eric, you and I may be old enough to remember the problems
0:20:17 > 0:20:22where people moved out of the rural areas.
0:20:22 > 0:20:28Ceredigion was one of the poorest counties for decades.
0:20:28 > 0:20:35There are many public sector jobs there now
0:20:35 > 0:20:40and that's transformed the economy of these areas.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44The wealth comes from the private sector.
0:20:44 > 0:20:50Universities are funded by the private sector in the end.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57But that is not true for every area.
0:20:57 > 0:21:02The public sector may look after an area such as Cambridge
0:21:02 > 0:21:05but the private sector is based elsewhere.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08The private sector doesn't have to lead in every area
0:21:08 > 0:21:15- in every local economy. - We're talking about the real world.
0:21:15 > 0:21:18The universities will create inventions
0:21:18 > 0:21:26and so on and that can go into the private sector.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30Protecting the public sector doesn't mean
0:21:30 > 0:21:33we don't want to see it being created in the private sector.
0:21:33 > 0:21:38I am in favour of seeing the private sector growing.
0:21:38 > 0:21:44The weakness of the Welsh economy is that the private sector is too weak.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48But you shouldn't punish the public sector.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51You also have the problem of housing.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54People are finding it difficult to be able to live
0:21:54 > 0:21:58in their communities.
0:21:58 > 0:22:05I think it is a wider social problem that needs to be looked at.
0:22:05 > 0:22:10Eric Davies, if you are in favour of the principle,
0:22:10 > 0:22:13what about regional pay within Wales?
0:22:13 > 0:22:17That already happens in the private sector
0:22:17 > 0:22:19especially in accountancy.
0:22:19 > 0:22:24There's a difference between Cardiff and Swansea in some jobs.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28It is already happening in the private sector.
0:22:28 > 0:22:32But you wouldn't pay nurses in Cardiff
0:22:32 > 0:22:35more than those in North Wales would you?
0:22:35 > 0:22:39Nurses and people in the public sector offer a service.
0:22:39 > 0:22:42The pay in the private sector
0:22:42 > 0:22:48depends on people's ability to pay for that service.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52If the regional pay system means it's cheaper to employ
0:22:52 > 0:22:57someone in the public sector, that is going to happen in the end.
0:22:57 > 0:23:01The BBC has a regional pay scheme.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04Dewi Llwyd gets a little bit less than Huw Edwards!
0:23:04 > 0:23:09Thank you for the time being.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13Labour Assembly Member Keith Davies has been censured for his behaviour
0:23:13 > 0:23:16following a drunken night in Cardiff.
0:23:16 > 0:23:21The Standards Committee's report was accepted unanimously here
0:23:21 > 0:23:25and his party has been assured that he will not misbehave again.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28We'll have a quick word with Llyr Huws Gruffydd.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32You are on the Standards Committee. We need new rules here?
0:23:32 > 0:23:36We have started the work of reviewing the code of conduct
0:23:36 > 0:23:40and the punishment available to us as a committee.
0:23:40 > 0:23:46We looked at this case with the rules that were already in place.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49Work has already begun to revamp things.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52Labour could have taken this further.
0:23:52 > 0:23:57They could have withdrawn the whip for a couple of weeks,
0:23:57 > 0:23:58but they decided not to.
0:23:58 > 0:24:03They decided, as did the Assembly, to censure him.
0:24:03 > 0:24:09- Was that disappointing for you? - The Assembly didn't have a choice.
0:24:09 > 0:24:15Labour didn't take much action and I am very disappointed with that.
0:24:15 > 0:24:21Thank you very much for a very interesting discussion.
0:24:21 > 0:24:27That's all for another week. Until the same time next Wednesday.
0:24:27 > 0:24:31Remember Dau o'r Bae on Friday at 1:15pm.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34- Until next week, good evening. - Good evening.