0:00:01 > 0:00:04Redrafting the constitution isn't child's play
0:00:04 > 0:00:08but preparations for the Scottish referendum have already started.
0:00:08 > 0:00:12Two days ago it was confirmed that London and Edinburgh
0:00:12 > 0:00:13had reached an agreement.
0:00:13 > 0:00:17There will be one question on the ballot paper, in or out.
0:00:17 > 0:00:21London are obviously worried about Scotland
0:00:21 > 0:00:24and the fact it could be independent.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27London are worried about the situation in Northern Ireland
0:00:27 > 0:00:30for other obvious reasons.
0:00:30 > 0:00:36I don't think London are concerned about Wales at all.
0:00:36 > 0:00:43Sometimes they even forget about Wales.
0:00:43 > 0:00:49So, there's an inequality of power in this country
0:00:49 > 0:00:54and I think Wales needs to start to think about how
0:00:54 > 0:00:59we can be more powerful by ourselves in these discussions.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03It's possible that Scotland will decide to remain
0:01:03 > 0:01:05with the UK in the end.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08But are further changes inevitable by now with more
0:01:08 > 0:01:14and more powers moving slowly from London to Edinburgh and Cardiff?
0:01:14 > 0:01:18I think there will be a momentum in Scotland
0:01:18 > 0:01:22to secure more powers for the Scottish Parliament.
0:01:22 > 0:01:28Even without full independence they want more ways of add to
0:01:28 > 0:01:31powers for Scotland and we'll see that as an opportunity
0:01:31 > 0:01:37to be part of the discussion for more tax raising powers
0:01:37 > 0:01:43as well as further devolved powers on policing, for example, to Wales.
0:01:45 > 0:01:50Plaid Cymru isn't the only party that feels further devolution
0:01:50 > 0:01:53will happen for Wales whatever happens in Scotland.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57There's a growing consensus that a new constitution is needed.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59The constitutional convention
0:01:59 > 0:02:02is a group of people coming together
0:02:02 > 0:02:07to secure a new agreement about the way the United Kingdom
0:02:07 > 0:02:11and parts of the United Kingdom is run in future
0:02:11 > 0:02:17to safeguard its future and the state of the United Kingdom.
0:02:18 > 0:02:22If the Welsh people want more powers devolved,
0:02:22 > 0:02:24that's what I also want to see.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27I want to support what Wales's people want
0:02:27 > 0:02:30and I expect to see devolution moving forwards in future.
0:02:30 > 0:02:34I don't know what the timetable will be
0:02:34 > 0:02:38but I expect a bit more devolution in future.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41I am a gradualist more than a revolutionary
0:02:41 > 0:02:44but we can't stop something like that.
0:02:44 > 0:02:4815 years ago many were confident that devolution would be
0:02:48 > 0:02:50the end of the arguments.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52But the opposite happened.
0:02:52 > 0:02:56With Scotland now considering leaving the UK,
0:02:56 > 0:03:01questions about Wales's future are building quicker than the answers.
0:03:02 > 0:03:07Richard, there was no doubt an agreement would be
0:03:07 > 0:03:09reached in Scotland.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12But can we note that Britain is unique in allowing this
0:03:12 > 0:03:14sort of thing to happen.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18It's not allowed in Spain and it wouldn't be allowed in France.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21The discussions would illegal.
0:03:21 > 0:03:26There's recent history in Spain where generals
0:03:26 > 0:03:29have been saying they'll send in the army to Barcelona.
0:03:29 > 0:03:33If you go to Madrid and discuss devolution,
0:03:33 > 0:03:36and I have done that, the civil servants
0:03:36 > 0:03:39within the Spanish administration are fiercely against
0:03:39 > 0:03:41any kind of idea of a Basque country,
0:03:41 > 0:03:44especially Catalonia becoming independent.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47You go to London and civil servants there say
0:03:47 > 0:03:51if they want to do it let them. It's totally different.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55Does that show maturity within the United Kingdom
0:03:55 > 0:03:59and shouldn't that be an argument for keeping it?
0:03:59 > 0:04:02Or it shows a lack of concern the middle.
0:04:02 > 0:04:08You can say that it's maturity but England is 85% of the UK.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12Scotland is about 7%.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16The 85% is quite quiet and confident in itself.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18We are the sidelines.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21In Spain, Catalonia and the Basque areas
0:04:21 > 0:04:24are the strongest economic areas.
0:04:24 > 0:04:29It would be a bigger blow for Spain to see Catalonia
0:04:29 > 0:04:33being independent than it would be for the UK to see Northern Ireland
0:04:33 > 0:04:36or Wales or Scotland disappearing.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38Paul Davies, the step has been taken.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42David Cameron and this step legalises the referendum in Scotland.
0:04:42 > 0:04:48There's one question, not a second question on devo max.
0:04:48 > 0:04:50It's a gamble.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53Why hasn't David Cameron allowed that?
0:04:54 > 0:04:58The SNP has made it clear over the last few years
0:04:58 > 0:05:01- they want to see a referendum. - With two questions.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03They want independence
0:05:03 > 0:05:08and that's the question the people of Scotland will have to answer.
0:05:08 > 0:05:14I don't think they will vote for independence.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17They aren't going to leave the UK.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21Today, the Scottish Liberal Democrats
0:05:21 > 0:05:26announced their plans for self-governance in Scotland.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30Federalism within the UK.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33How would that work for Wales?
0:05:33 > 0:05:37That's been our viewpoint for several years.
0:05:37 > 0:05:44But it seems there's a problem because England is so big
0:05:44 > 0:05:47compared with other countries.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49But the slogan, I think it goes back to Gladstone,
0:05:49 > 0:05:56home rule all round, that suggests some kind of home rule for England?
0:05:56 > 0:06:01Or the old Liberal Democrat policy, regions for England. Either or.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03But that's a matter for England.
0:06:03 > 0:06:08Under the previous Labour government there wasn't much support
0:06:08 > 0:06:12for that situation.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16It is a problem. We've seen it with the exams recently over the summer.
0:06:16 > 0:06:22It is a problem as to how Wales and Scotland deal with England.
0:06:22 > 0:06:27But isn't the elephant in the room what will happen to England?
0:06:27 > 0:06:30That is a basic and important question.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33I think it will be interesting to see how successful
0:06:33 > 0:06:35that part of Scotland will remain united.
0:06:35 > 0:06:40At the moment they're not offering anything else.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43We've got David Cameron saying
0:06:43 > 0:06:46if you vote no we'll give you more devolution, without defining that.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50You've got the Lib Dems talking about home rule.
0:06:50 > 0:06:55At the moment Labour haven't offered anything.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58They will have to because that's where
0:06:58 > 0:07:02the majority of Scottish people lie.
0:07:02 > 0:07:03They want more devolution.
0:07:03 > 0:07:07At the moment the unionist parties don't offer that.
0:07:07 > 0:07:14I'm sure they won't continue united if they say no for two years.
0:07:14 > 0:07:18What's interesting there is it seems to me the answer David Cameron
0:07:18 > 0:07:22is moving towards is the same answer Carwyn Jones is offering.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26Some kind of a constitutional convention to discuss it all.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29But you're asking people to vote for something pretty empty
0:07:29 > 0:07:32if you say vote no if you want a convention.
0:07:32 > 0:07:38That's why I want to see a real federal Britain.
0:07:38 > 0:07:42I've come to that conclusion for years.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47One way to defend the United Kingdom is to have a federal system.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50We want a parliament in Scotland, parliament in England,
0:07:50 > 0:07:53and a parliament in Northern Ireland and Wales.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55Similar to the Liberal Democrats.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59I don't accept this debate that England is too big.
0:07:59 > 0:08:04That's the situation we've got now. You can argue England's too big.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07If you have a truly federal system,
0:08:07 > 0:08:11it then defends those areas within the United Kingdom.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15Richard, what interests me here, too,
0:08:15 > 0:08:18is that every time we think the devolution debate in Wales
0:08:18 > 0:08:21has been settled, that it's over at least for a time,
0:08:21 > 0:08:23it comes back almost immediately.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26It's just over a year since we had that referendum,
0:08:26 > 0:08:31and not just because of Scotland but also these court cases
0:08:31 > 0:08:32about legislation here,
0:08:32 > 0:08:37it seems to me that the Welsh settlement question is completely open.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40There is no Welsh settlement. We haven't had a settlement.
0:08:40 > 0:08:45I refuse to use the word "settlement," because it's been too unstable.
0:08:45 > 0:08:50And of course, a month tomorrow, we're expecting the first Silk Commission report.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53That'll say something about taxation powers,
0:08:53 > 0:08:56and that report could easily be consolidated
0:08:56 > 0:08:59before any of the suggestions are put into action.
0:08:59 > 0:09:03As you say, the completely mad behaviour, as I see it,
0:09:03 > 0:09:05of the Wales Office in London,
0:09:05 > 0:09:09policing this place's legislative competence,
0:09:09 > 0:09:17has already raised the question of changing the way powers are given to this place already,
0:09:17 > 0:09:19which as far as I see...
0:09:19 > 0:09:22I don't understand why David Jones is doing this from his own standpoint.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25So we're still moving very fast on this.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28And whatever is decided in Scotland, Aled Roberts,
0:09:28 > 0:09:33won't the way this place is funded also be discussed?
0:09:33 > 0:09:39Because if there was a "yes" vote, the Barnett Formula would be over.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41The Barnett Formula is over anyway.
0:09:41 > 0:09:46We'll have to do something different in terms of that formula.
0:09:46 > 0:09:50What's interesting is if devo max had been put to the Scottish people,
0:09:50 > 0:09:55the financial implications of that on Wales would have been worse still.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59Paul, let me bring up the point Richard raised about the Wales Office,
0:09:59 > 0:10:05and what's happened already, the court case last week
0:10:05 > 0:10:09about a petty little bill relating to local government.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14We're now hearing questions coming up about official language bills.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17This is very strange.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20Is the Wales Office trying to make the same mess of this settlement
0:10:20 > 0:10:22as it made of the last one?
0:10:22 > 0:10:26As I understand it, this is a legal matter, and I'm not a lawyer.
0:10:26 > 0:10:31But of course if you speak to one lawyer they'll say one thing,
0:10:31 > 0:10:34and another lawyer will say something completely different.
0:10:34 > 0:10:41So we'll have to see what the High Court or the Supreme Court says.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44Yes, but it's a decision...you know, there's a legal argument,
0:10:44 > 0:10:48but it's a political decision to have that legal argument by going to court.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51Because if no-one else had gone to court,
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Pembrokeshire Council wouldn't have gone to court because of some row
0:10:54 > 0:10:57about tattoo parlours in Haverfordwest, would they?
0:10:57 > 0:11:00The UK Government has decided to take it to court.
0:11:00 > 0:11:05Yes, and that's why I want to see a truly federal system in the UK,
0:11:05 > 0:11:07because we wouldn't have this problem then,
0:11:07 > 0:11:11because you'd have proper parliaments across the UK,
0:11:11 > 0:11:15and we'd avoid problems like this in future.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19Richard, going back to Scotland, if the people of Scotland do say no,
0:11:19 > 0:11:22and that's what the opinion polls suggest at the moment,
0:11:22 > 0:11:24what about the future of the SNP?
0:11:24 > 0:11:25Well, there are two things to say.
0:11:25 > 0:11:30Firstly, I wouldn't take it for granted that the Scottish people are going to say no at the moment.
0:11:30 > 0:11:35They have two years, and anyone who underestimates the political capabilities of the SNP
0:11:35 > 0:11:38has forgotten the lesson of the last election in Scotland,
0:11:38 > 0:11:41where the SNP turned round what looked like a hopeless situation
0:11:41 > 0:11:43four weeks before the vote.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46They have two years to work on this.
0:11:46 > 0:11:51But in terms of the SNP, we have a situation in Scotland where people differentiate
0:11:51 > 0:11:53between their constitutional opinion
0:11:53 > 0:11:55and who they want to see running the country.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58And there's no doubt that the SNP at present
0:11:58 > 0:12:03is far more popular as a governing power.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06Not just because Alex Salmond is a popular politician,
0:12:06 > 0:12:12but also because the SNP appears to govern far more effectively than its predecessors.
0:12:12 > 0:12:18So it's very easy to imagine a situation where there was perhaps a "no" vote,
0:12:18 > 0:12:20but the SNP won the election after that,
0:12:20 > 0:12:23so the constitutional question would return to the agenda immediately.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25- Groundhog Day.- Exactly.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28Over the weekend, a group of people will convene in Aberystwyth
0:12:28 > 0:12:32to discuss the future of the Welsh language.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35But there'll be no marching or loudspeakers anywhere near,
0:12:35 > 0:12:39and no placards either, as the members of the new group, Dyfodol I'r Iaith,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41meet for the first time.
0:12:41 > 0:12:47The group aims to lobby to ensure that the language is at the centre of Welsh community and civic life.
0:12:47 > 0:12:49Carl Roberts has more.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53'Restoring the Welsh language in Wales
0:12:53 > 0:12:56'is nothing less than a revolution.'
0:12:56 > 0:13:012012 is a historic year for the Welsh language.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04Half a century since Saunders Lewis gave his "Tynged yr Iaith" speech,
0:13:04 > 0:13:08and the 50th anniversary of Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg.
0:13:08 > 0:13:13But amongst all the history, a new movement, Dyfodol I'r Iaith, has been founded.
0:13:13 > 0:13:20It wants to steer clear of this kind of campaigning to concentrate on other methods of influencing opinion.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23I don't believe Cymdeithas Yr Iaith has taken advantage
0:13:23 > 0:13:26of the huge number of people in Wales
0:13:26 > 0:13:29who have good will for the Welsh language,
0:13:29 > 0:13:32but perhaps don't agree with lawbreaking, for instance,
0:13:32 > 0:13:34and don't feel comfortable with that.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37But another element has developed in the last ten years,
0:13:37 > 0:13:41which is the agreement of all four main parties in Wales
0:13:41 > 0:13:43about the language.
0:13:43 > 0:13:47They are all now supportive of the Welsh language.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50Of course, we do lobbying work already, and we welcome the fact
0:13:50 > 0:13:53that a number of language movements do that,
0:13:53 > 0:13:57and that more groups are coming into being to do that work.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01As I said, there's already an umbrella group of language movements -
0:14:01 > 0:14:04Celebrating Our Language - and we hope that through that forum
0:14:04 > 0:14:09we can co-operate with new language movements being established.
0:14:09 > 0:14:14There's plenty of choice between different groups,
0:14:14 > 0:14:16with appeal for every kind of campaigner,
0:14:16 > 0:14:20but at least one AM from Wales won't be joining any language movements.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23Over the last 30 years, we've seen extraordinary developments
0:14:23 > 0:14:25in terms of the status of the Welsh language,
0:14:25 > 0:14:28but those developments have been primarily in the public sector,
0:14:28 > 0:14:31in terms of people's rights to use the language in the workplace,
0:14:31 > 0:14:37and yet what we've seen is the Welsh speaking communities not being defended and fading.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41And without communities where Welsh is naturally a majority language,
0:14:41 > 0:14:45I worry that all we're doing is ensuring the right for a minority to use the language
0:14:45 > 0:14:47where the majority don't do so.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50Cymdeithas Yr Iaith has 50 years of history,
0:14:50 > 0:14:54and can claim many successes for the Welsh language.
0:14:54 > 0:14:59But what would Dyfodol I'r Iaith consider a success after the first year?
0:14:59 > 0:15:05I hope that we will have started to formulate policies and ideas.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07I'm not saying that we have the only answer,
0:15:07 > 0:15:11but formulating proposals and ideas in different fields,
0:15:11 > 0:15:15with the Government's role in the centre,
0:15:15 > 0:15:18so that the Government within a year realises that the Welsh language
0:15:18 > 0:15:22isn't just a matter for a single minister,
0:15:22 > 0:15:25but also in the economy, housing and so on.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29Whatever the fate of these movements, only the fate of the language
0:15:29 > 0:15:32will be the measure of their success.
0:15:33 > 0:15:34Carl Roberts.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38- Richard Wyn Jones, you'll be addressing the conference on Saturday.- Yes.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41What would you say the language needs at the moment?
0:15:41 > 0:15:43We have a very strange situation at the moment in Wales,
0:15:43 > 0:15:45where we have this place, the National Assembly,
0:15:45 > 0:15:47we have the Welsh Government,
0:15:47 > 0:15:52establishments which were created with the very enthusiastic support
0:15:52 > 0:15:55of Welsh speakers, and especially those who love the language.
0:15:55 > 0:16:03But nobody's made the best use of these establishments to fight for the language.
0:16:03 > 0:16:05- We have... - What would be the best use?
0:16:05 > 0:16:09Here in Cardiff Bay at the moment, we have all kinds of interest groups represented,
0:16:09 > 0:16:13lobbying for one thing or another, but there's no-one here
0:16:13 > 0:16:16permanently lobbying for the Welsh language.
0:16:16 > 0:16:20So you'd be content if Cymdeithas Yr Iaith had a smart office in the Bay?
0:16:20 > 0:16:25Well, there's a significant conceptual difference here.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28Cymdeithas Yr Iaith has existed for half a century -
0:16:28 > 0:16:32happy birthday to Cymdeithas Yr Iaith, by the way -
0:16:32 > 0:16:35and has followed this pattern of having local groups,
0:16:35 > 0:16:38of concentrating its resources on acting in that way,
0:16:38 > 0:16:42and what we're saying is, "Look, we've had these establishments for 15 years now,
0:16:42 > 0:16:46"and they have all kinds of potential, and we're not making the best of them."
0:16:46 > 0:16:49So it's a very simple idea, to tell the truth.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51But, Paul Davies, if the four main parties, as Heini said,
0:16:51 > 0:16:54are in favour of promoting the language,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57shouldn't it be the parties generating these ideas?
0:16:57 > 0:16:59Do you need a pressure group
0:16:59 > 0:17:01or an external thinktank to do that work for you?
0:17:01 > 0:17:06It's important that parties also offer ideas,
0:17:06 > 0:17:08but I very much welcome this group.
0:17:08 > 0:17:13There are some very illustrious people associated with it already!
0:17:13 > 0:17:16And I hope some real ideas will come from the group,
0:17:16 > 0:17:18and I'm sure they will,
0:17:18 > 0:17:24because the irony at the moment is that we see in traditionally Welsh speaking areas
0:17:24 > 0:17:28that use of the language is unfortunately decreasing,
0:17:28 > 0:17:34and if you look at towns and cities, the Welsh language is growing.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36And I think that's the irony now.
0:17:36 > 0:17:39And that's what this new group, as I understand it, wants to do,
0:17:39 > 0:17:41is ensure that the Welsh language
0:17:41 > 0:17:45is truly a language of the community in Wales.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Is there room for everyone, Aled Roberts -
0:17:47 > 0:17:50is it a good thing that more and more groups, like Arddel as well,
0:17:50 > 0:17:52Dyfodol, Cymdeithas Yr Iaith...
0:17:52 > 0:17:57Is there confusion or is it a good thing that they're flourishing like this?
0:17:57 > 0:17:58It definitely is.
0:17:58 > 0:18:02I think there are complex questions which come up in terms of...
0:18:02 > 0:18:06Paul mentioned the growth of the language in education in towns and cities.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09But there's a danger that the growth is only within schools.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12There are big problems in terms of planning policies and so on,
0:18:12 > 0:18:17and at present, the Welsh language isn't central to those debates.
0:18:17 > 0:18:23Richard, what strikes me is that Dyfodol doesn't seem to be in much danger
0:18:23 > 0:18:27of stepping on Cymdeithas Yr Iaith's toes,
0:18:27 > 0:18:30but you're stepping on the toes of the Language Commissioner, aren't you?
0:18:30 > 0:18:34Isn't all this policy work, proposing these ideas...
0:18:34 > 0:18:39That's the Commissioner's remit, and she's paid a lot of money to do it.
0:18:39 > 0:18:45Yes, but within any political regime, and with all due respect to the Language Commissioner,
0:18:45 > 0:18:51you need people who push and say uncomfortable things sometimes.
0:18:51 > 0:18:55We're a non-partisan body keeping an arm's length from the parties,
0:18:55 > 0:19:00and I feel that when you keep at arm's length and don't depend on their funding and so on,
0:19:00 > 0:19:03you can say things other people can't.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05What about Cymdeithas Yr Iaith?
0:19:05 > 0:19:08You were very critical of them in Barn recently.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11Angharad Tomos hit back at you as well.
0:19:11 > 0:19:16Is that a healthy thing to do, attacking each other publicly like that?
0:19:16 > 0:19:20I don't think personal attacks help at all.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23But there's an important conceptual difference -
0:19:23 > 0:19:25where's your emphasis?
0:19:25 > 0:19:28As I've said, Cymdeithas Yr Iaith has 50 years of tradition
0:19:28 > 0:19:31of focusing on one way of organising,
0:19:31 > 0:19:34and we're saying that there are new establishments in Wales,
0:19:34 > 0:19:36that things have changed in those 50 years,
0:19:36 > 0:19:39and these establishments have been created -
0:19:39 > 0:19:41why aren't we making the best use of these establishments
0:19:41 > 0:19:44to promote the Welsh language? It's very simple.
0:19:44 > 0:19:48Who will politicians be more likely to listen to?
0:19:48 > 0:19:51Well, I'd very much welcome the ideas
0:19:51 > 0:19:53which will come from this group,
0:19:53 > 0:19:58and I think it's important that politicians do listen to groups like this
0:19:58 > 0:20:03if we want to see the Welsh language flourishing in our communities.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06We want to see the language alive in our communities,
0:20:06 > 0:20:09and as I said earlier, unfortunately,
0:20:09 > 0:20:14in some traditionally Welsh speaking areas, the language is decreasing.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17The danger, I'd imagine, Aled, is that we perhaps end up
0:20:17 > 0:20:21with some kind of denominationalism developing within the language movements,
0:20:21 > 0:20:24you know, that there's a large number of groups who all have broadly the same aims,
0:20:24 > 0:20:28but disagree on the small details here and there,
0:20:28 > 0:20:33like the Scotch Baptists arguing with Calvinist Methodists,
0:20:33 > 0:20:36rather than bringing the gospel to the people, as it were.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38Well, as an Independent...
0:20:40 > 0:20:44No, I think there have always been different standpoints in terms of the language,
0:20:44 > 0:20:48that some people support lawbreaking and some are uncomfortable with it.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50I think that's always been the situation,
0:20:50 > 0:20:54but I think it's quite healthy that there are now different groups coming to us.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56We should listen to every one of them,
0:20:56 > 0:21:00we won't agree with all of them, but every group brings ideas.
0:21:00 > 0:21:04But is there a place for placards and marching, Richard Wyn Jones?
0:21:04 > 0:21:07- Or do you want all that to be put aside?- No...You know...
0:21:07 > 0:21:10In the same spirit as Colin Nosworthy being ecumenical,
0:21:10 > 0:21:12I'll be ecumenical too.
0:21:12 > 0:21:16There's no...that is, there's room for different kinds of emphasis.
0:21:16 > 0:21:22What I personally feel is that Cymdeithas Yr Iaith concentrates on one thing,
0:21:22 > 0:21:25and opportunities are lost because of that,
0:21:25 > 0:21:28so this is an attempt to make the best of those opportunities.
0:21:28 > 0:21:33And there's no doubt that there's a radical chic to Cymdeithas Yr Iaith.
0:21:33 > 0:21:37There's an appeal for Welsh speakers especially of...
0:21:37 > 0:21:40You know, you see those images on screen and there's an excitement to it,
0:21:40 > 0:21:45and perhaps people will say, "No, we don't want this kind of movement in future,
0:21:45 > 0:21:48"you're not exciting enough," and perhaps the whole thing won't work.
0:21:48 > 0:21:53But I think enough people instinctively understand that we need to use these establishments.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55Perhaps they'll choose academic chic!
0:21:55 > 0:21:57Exactly.
0:21:57 > 0:21:58Thanks to you three.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00That's it for another week.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03We'll be back at the same time next Wednesday.
0:22:03 > 0:22:05- Until then, goodnight.- Goodnight.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd