0:00:20 > 0:00:25Good evening and welcome to CF99 live from the Assembly in Cardiff Bay.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27On tonight's programme -
0:00:27 > 0:00:29Lessons from the Education Minister.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32Is the head teacher too strict or do schools need a hard boss
0:00:32 > 0:00:34in order to improve?
0:00:35 > 0:00:38And Cardiff Bay was supposed to be a haven of equality.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41Why is there still a shortage of female Assembly Members?
0:00:41 > 0:00:44There has been a reduction in the number of female AMs
0:00:44 > 0:00:47and there could be a further reduction in the future.
0:00:50 > 0:00:55You saw her outside there, but we've let her into the building now,
0:00:55 > 0:00:57Nerys Evans, the former Plaid Cymru AM,
0:00:57 > 0:01:01who now works for the Deryn public relations company.
0:01:01 > 0:01:05We're joined by the Conservative AM for South Wales West Suzy Davies
0:01:05 > 0:01:08and welcome back to Keith Davies the for Labour member Llanelli.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12Thanks to you three for your company tonight.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Once again this week Leighton Andrews has been stirring things up
0:01:15 > 0:01:18in the world of education.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21One union has threatened to strike over the minister's plans
0:01:21 > 0:01:24to improve literacy and numeracy skills.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26Leighton Andrews has certainly been busy,
0:01:26 > 0:01:29but his methods aren't to everyone's taste.
0:01:29 > 0:01:30Here's Tomos Livingstone.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34The best weapon is the weapon of education.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37Nobody enjoys being at the forefront of education
0:01:37 > 0:01:39more than Leighton Andrews.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43Since starting the job three years ago,
0:01:43 > 0:01:45the Education Minister has fought on several fronts.
0:01:45 > 0:01:51Among his campaigns, he's put comprehensive schools into bands
0:01:51 > 0:01:55depending on the attendance of pupils and on exam results.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59Mr Andrews says these are not league tables,
0:01:59 > 0:02:02but a clear instruction for the poorest performing schools
0:02:02 > 0:02:03they need to improve.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07Qualifications will be different to those in England.
0:02:07 > 0:02:11The Welsh Government confirmed this week that GCSEs
0:02:11 > 0:02:13and A-levels would continue in Wales.
0:02:15 > 0:02:17There will be new national tests for younger children too.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22The universities haven't been let off either.
0:02:22 > 0:02:27A number of establishments have been encouraged or forced to merge.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32I think, in my opinion, that Leighton Andrews is trying
0:02:32 > 0:02:35to do too much in one period.
0:02:36 > 0:02:41I think people within the education sector see
0:02:41 > 0:02:45Leighton Andrews as quite aggressive as he tries to implement things.
0:02:45 > 0:02:49I don't think that helps either.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Are all the reforms having an effect?
0:02:52 > 0:02:54According to the exam inspection board, Estyn,
0:02:54 > 0:02:59fewer schools received excellent reports compared to last year.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03Wales is behind Scotland and England
0:03:03 > 0:03:07in official comparisons of reading, writing and numeracy.
0:03:07 > 0:03:11At least one union is threatening to strike.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15One of the main problems teachers raise with us
0:03:15 > 0:03:18is the change in the ethos of teaching in Welsh classrooms.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21We see the Foundation Phase, which has an ethos of learning through
0:03:21 > 0:03:24different things.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28Assessments have now been introduced in primary schools
0:03:28 > 0:03:30which goes against that ethos.
0:03:30 > 0:03:35It creates a bit of confusion within the class and for pupils.
0:03:35 > 0:03:40There's a risk that Wales will lose credibility
0:03:40 > 0:03:43among those who look into it.
0:03:43 > 0:03:47When you look at universities, especially in the Russell Group,
0:03:47 > 0:03:52and the Welsh Baccalaureate as an example,
0:03:52 > 0:03:57it's important that we don't make ourselves less of a nation
0:03:57 > 0:04:00with regard to educational credibility.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04Leighton Andrews is certainly a hard working minister
0:04:04 > 0:04:08and stands out in a Cabinet, which some see, as rudderless.
0:04:11 > 0:04:15Leighton Andrews is an experienced politician,
0:04:15 > 0:04:17but a striking politician
0:04:17 > 0:04:23especially when you compare him to the other AM's who have been there
0:04:23 > 0:04:25from the start.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28In the Labour ranks, after Rhodri Morgan and Carwyn Jones,
0:04:28 > 0:04:33he is the most familiar politician, the one who has accomplished most
0:04:33 > 0:04:38and the one who makes the most noise since the Assembly started.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40Giving a speech isn't enough sometimes.
0:04:40 > 0:04:44They had to change the thinking over closing smaller schools.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48Attempts to merge the Cardiff Metropolitan University
0:04:48 > 0:04:51with the sites in Glamorgan and Newport were in vain.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54After a row over re-marking GCSE papers
0:04:54 > 0:04:58Leighton Andrews wants to stop overseeing the exam system.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01But the man himself is quite happy.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05There are a lot of things to do.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10We have introduced a new framework
0:05:10 > 0:05:15to support literacy and numeracy.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19We have invested in our schools.
0:05:19 > 0:05:25We have introduced a new system to band secondary schools.
0:05:27 > 0:05:33It's important we ensure that the system works hard for everyone.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38More far-reaching changes are on the horizon.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41Despite the protests of those working in the sector,
0:05:41 > 0:05:45the Education Minister is not going to leave the political centre stage.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49Tomos Livingstone there.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53Keith Davies, I'm in danger of having a row from Leighton Andrews already,
0:05:53 > 0:05:56let's compare him with Michael Gove.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59Two education ministers, unhappy with the systems as they are
0:05:59 > 0:06:02and two that are willing to announce things,
0:06:02 > 0:06:06jump into all kinds of situations without caring
0:06:06 > 0:06:09if they hurt people in the process.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12I'm not sure about that. I wouldn't compare them.
0:06:12 > 0:06:17This week they've been discussing about changing qualifications.
0:06:17 > 0:06:19What Leighton Andrews offers in Wales, I accept that,
0:06:19 > 0:06:21the unions accept it.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24In England, the unions don't accept it.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26I think he's on the right track.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30Maybe he's going quickly, but maybe that's what's needed.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33One of things Leighton and I agree on
0:06:33 > 0:06:38is that 22 education authorities in Wales are too many.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40You can't bring schools together.
0:06:42 > 0:06:45You don't have the staff in the authorities.
0:06:45 > 0:06:49So he's looking to form regions now.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51But that's the point, that's what's interesting,
0:06:51 > 0:06:54these regions were set up quite recently,
0:06:54 > 0:06:58last September. Six months later, he wants to change them again.
0:06:58 > 0:07:00I don't think so.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03I think we have a framework of the regions
0:07:03 > 0:07:05and what they have to do.
0:07:05 > 0:07:11If we go back to 1996, we had three counties in west Wales.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18The first thing we wanted to do was get a team together
0:07:18 > 0:07:20to work for the three counties.
0:07:20 > 0:07:25Carmarthenshire agreed, Ceredigion agreed and Pembrokeshire didn't.
0:07:25 > 0:07:30What's happened now? Pembrokeshire has had a bad report.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33The Estyn reports on the authorities now
0:07:33 > 0:07:37not one of them are excellent.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41Nerys, is he rash or showing strong leadership?
0:07:43 > 0:07:48It was interesting to see Paul Davis saying he's doing too much.
0:07:48 > 0:07:50I wouldn't want to criticise any politician of doing too much
0:07:50 > 0:07:52these days.
0:07:52 > 0:07:57He has tried to deal with a lot of problems in the education system
0:07:57 > 0:08:01and it takes time to change structures.
0:08:01 > 0:08:06I was the spokesperson for education during the coalition.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10I worked closely with Leighton Andrews at that time.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12We had a very constructive relationship
0:08:12 > 0:08:16and we shared information and we brought Plaid Cymru policies in too.
0:08:16 > 0:08:21But he doesn't mind making people angry.
0:08:21 > 0:08:25He had a row with the Cardiff Metropolitan University for example.
0:08:25 > 0:08:30With rows like that, some outside the bubble say
0:08:30 > 0:08:33what right does he have to make decisions?
0:08:33 > 0:08:36But we live in a democracy and the man has been elected.
0:08:36 > 0:08:41Like it or not, Labour is the government in this place.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44They have been voted in to make decisions.
0:08:44 > 0:08:45That is what they are doing.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48People would be critical if politicians
0:08:48 > 0:08:51weren't making decisions, so it's a sensitive balance.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55Suzy Davies what do you make of him?
0:08:55 > 0:08:58Keith Davies and Nerys Evans seem to be fans.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00I take it you're not.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04It depends what you're talking about.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07The one thing you can say about Leighton Andrews
0:09:07 > 0:09:08is he has been busy.
0:09:08 > 0:09:13From the Conservative benches we say that Labour is a lazy government
0:09:13 > 0:09:16but Leighton Andrews has been busy.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19The question is has he been too busy to check
0:09:19 > 0:09:23whether what he's been doing is effective?
0:09:23 > 0:09:27It's as if he's setting little fires all over the place
0:09:27 > 0:09:31instead of having one big bonfire that works.
0:09:31 > 0:09:36So you think he's rushing from one issue to the next?
0:09:36 > 0:09:39He's jumping from one strategy to the other.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42It's difficult for people to understand what he's doing.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45There's a difference between leadership
0:09:45 > 0:09:51and someone who ploughs through without taking people with him.
0:09:51 > 0:09:54Let's take a look at some of the things he's done.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57Banding.
0:09:57 > 0:10:02I haven't met a parent who understands what banding is.
0:10:02 > 0:10:06They don't understand how a school they consider is better
0:10:06 > 0:10:09than a school down the road is somehow in a lower band
0:10:09 > 0:10:12because he takes this and that into consideration.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15It doesn't help parents, does it?
0:10:15 > 0:10:18Maybe it helps the schools but not the parents.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21That's a problem.
0:10:21 > 0:10:26Looking at the banding and the way schools go into bands one or five,
0:10:26 > 0:10:28it depends...
0:10:30 > 0:10:34..on the results from the previous year.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37It looks at attendance.
0:10:37 > 0:10:40It looks at how many children have free school meals,
0:10:40 > 0:10:44all these factors come together.
0:10:44 > 0:10:46You put them all together.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49I have to say, I don't see anything wrong with it,
0:10:49 > 0:10:51as long as the bandings are put together correctly.
0:10:51 > 0:10:56In the end, the education will succeed in schools.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58But it doesn't help parents, does it?
0:10:58 > 0:11:02Just because a school can go up a band by attracting more pupils
0:11:02 > 0:11:07who have free school meals doesn't help parents.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09The reason for including free meals
0:11:09 > 0:11:11is it reflects the pupils' background.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15If a school has 60% of pupils who have free school meals
0:11:15 > 0:11:18and they have good results, that says a lot about the school
0:11:18 > 0:11:21and the staff and that's what's important.
0:11:21 > 0:11:25How will the school improve things?
0:11:25 > 0:11:29Nerys, whatever we think of these league tables that exist in England,
0:11:29 > 0:11:32they do help parents.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35They might not be so good for some schools
0:11:35 > 0:11:36when it comes to pushy parents
0:11:36 > 0:11:40but banding isn't something the public understands.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44No, I think it's a bit early yet and there are a lot of elements
0:11:44 > 0:11:49in the mix about what banding means for parents.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53People will compare schools through banding.
0:11:53 > 0:11:57It's like the league tables in England.
0:11:57 > 0:12:01Schools use it as beneficial or to try
0:12:01 > 0:12:04and explain weakness in the system
0:12:04 > 0:12:08and parents will take note of it as we tackle these bandings
0:12:08 > 0:12:09in the next few years.
0:12:10 > 0:12:15We don't know whether there will be a Cabinet reshuffle, Carwyn Jones
0:12:15 > 0:12:19has suggested he won't rush to do that, but he will do it at some time.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23Suzy, where next for Leighton Andrews?
0:12:23 > 0:12:27Do you think he'll stay in his job?
0:12:27 > 0:12:30He's too busy to be moved, that's the impression he's giving.
0:12:30 > 0:12:32He's got too much to do.
0:12:32 > 0:12:37Paul Davies said in that clip that he was doing too much.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40I don't know what Carwyn Jones is thinking,
0:12:40 > 0:12:44but people are wondering whether he'll do something soon.
0:12:44 > 0:12:49Other members of the Cabinet don't compare to Leighton Andrews,
0:12:49 > 0:12:52with regard to the amount of work they do.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56Is he making other members of the Cabinet look bad?
0:12:56 > 0:13:01I think he does. He shows weaknesses in other areas.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04I think he will have to have some kind of promotion.
0:13:04 > 0:13:07Obviously, education and health are the biggest portfolios.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11It's difficult to see Carwyn Jones moving the Health Minister
0:13:11 > 0:13:14because of the problems in the health industry.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17It will be difficult to see what portfolio can be created
0:13:17 > 0:13:20to attract Leighton from the education portfolio.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24Here's an idea, Leighton likes education,
0:13:24 > 0:13:28if the economy is the main political issue going on to the next
0:13:28 > 0:13:31general election and Assembly election,
0:13:31 > 0:13:35what about a job like a tsar for the whole economy?
0:13:37 > 0:13:40If he got that job, I'm sure he'd do it well
0:13:40 > 0:13:43and not like Angela, Suzy's colleague, calls Leighton
0:13:43 > 0:13:49in nearly every meeting now - the new First Minister
0:13:49 > 0:13:51We all know what happens to tsars.
0:13:51 > 0:13:53Thank you very much.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57The political parties need to ensure that more women are elected
0:13:57 > 0:14:01to the Assembly according to the Presiding Officer, Rosemary Butler.
0:14:01 > 0:14:06She has written to the leaders to urge them to take action.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09But what happened to the Assembly being an example of equality
0:14:09 > 0:14:11within the Chamber?
0:14:11 > 0:14:15We asked one of our guests tonight for her personal perspective.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25The Borgen drama which is shown by the BBC at the moment
0:14:25 > 0:14:29shows a female prime minister in Denmark leading a coalition
0:14:29 > 0:14:32has captured the imagination of many here in Cardiff Bay.
0:14:33 > 0:14:37The Assembly Presiding Officer has written to the political parties
0:14:37 > 0:14:40asking them to take action about female representation
0:14:40 > 0:14:42here in the Assembly.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44But what is the problem?
0:14:48 > 0:14:52Before devolution the number of women politicians
0:14:52 > 0:14:53was shockingly low.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56Only 13 female MPs have ever represented Wales.
0:14:56 > 0:14:58But with the Assembly
0:14:58 > 0:15:01and because of internal policies in the parties,
0:15:01 > 0:15:04the situation improved.
0:15:04 > 0:15:11In 2003, the Assembly had 50% of women and 50% of men.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13Wales was leading the way.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17Since then, there's been a reduction in the number of female AMs
0:15:17 > 0:15:20and there's a danger there will be a further reduction in the future.
0:15:23 > 0:15:28We all have to discuss whether securing equality is something
0:15:28 > 0:15:33we should aim for, ensuring that the chamber is a microcosm of society,
0:15:33 > 0:15:39not just on the basis of age, ethnic background, disability and religion.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43The problem is ensuring equality
0:15:43 > 0:15:46sometimes goes against choosing people on merit.
0:15:46 > 0:15:51Some believe the battle has already been won.
0:15:52 > 0:15:57The burden of this falls on our political parties.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00We need a discussion about the skills you need
0:16:00 > 0:16:02to be a good politician.
0:16:02 > 0:16:06The current culture puts emphasis on skills which are more masculine,
0:16:06 > 0:16:09like being aggressive and arguing.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12Are they the most important skills for a politician?
0:16:17 > 0:16:22This is an important matter, not only for the Assembly,
0:16:22 > 0:16:25but for businesses and other establishments.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28They are losing out on a huge pool of talent by having leaders
0:16:28 > 0:16:30with similar backgrounds.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34Like devolution itself,
0:16:34 > 0:16:39ensuring equality in our political process is a process
0:16:39 > 0:16:43and not an event.
0:16:43 > 0:16:47Right, we'll leave Nerys' message out of things for a while!
0:16:47 > 0:16:54Suzy Davies, your party has never had a system to encourage women
0:16:54 > 0:16:58and for a long time, there weren't any Tory female Assembly Members.
0:16:58 > 0:17:05- Was the party at fault?- There was some practical issues with that.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10You have to have free seats for these women.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13It depends who is in the seat at the moment,
0:17:13 > 0:17:17if they've been there for a long time and they're not going to move,
0:17:17 > 0:17:20there's no room for a woman to stand.
0:17:20 > 0:17:25There are three of us in the group in the Assembly at the moment.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28There was room and the women came in.
0:17:28 > 0:17:34Is it important to you that there is equality around the 50% mark?
0:17:34 > 0:17:40Yes. I think that anyone can represent people.
0:17:40 > 0:17:47I think it's important to reflect the people you represent.
0:17:47 > 0:17:51If a lot of people see a lack of women here,
0:17:51 > 0:17:56they are right to ask whether we are talking about the thing
0:17:56 > 0:18:00that's are important to them and are we listening to the voices of women.
0:18:00 > 0:18:05This is a very important issue for us.
0:18:05 > 0:18:09Keith, what about the point about the skills.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11I watch the Assembly a lot.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14People see what happens down in the chamber,
0:18:14 > 0:18:16but I see a lot of the committees as well.
0:18:16 > 0:18:21Those who shine in the committees
0:18:21 > 0:18:24are not always the ones who shine in the chamber.
0:18:24 > 0:18:29Maybe we don't appreciate some of the skills the members have.
0:18:29 > 0:18:33They are not always to do with shouting
0:18:33 > 0:18:36and screaming in the chamber.
0:18:36 > 0:18:39Going back to the education system,
0:18:39 > 0:18:45that's one thing Leighton Andrews is doing, is developing crucial skills.
0:18:45 > 0:18:49Every child going into school now has to follow those courses.
0:18:49 > 0:18:52Part of it is to debate with people
0:18:52 > 0:18:55and talk in front of the class and so on.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59I think we need more of that than there has been in the past.
0:18:59 > 0:19:05What Nerys said was true about Plaid Cymru and Labour,
0:19:05 > 0:19:11we ensure on every shortlist that there is equality.
0:19:11 > 0:19:16But what you are doing is putting a plaster over it
0:19:16 > 0:19:22because if you look at the councils and the council chambers in Wales,
0:19:22 > 0:19:25there is a much worse inequality.
0:19:25 > 0:19:30And the Assembly Members tend to come from that pool.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33That needs to be worked on as well.
0:19:33 > 0:19:38Look at head teachers, there are more and more female head teachers now
0:19:38 > 0:19:40especially in the primary section.
0:19:40 > 0:19:45You never used to have any.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48Now, more and more are coming in.
0:19:48 > 0:19:53But I think they do have to look at other people and say,
0:19:53 > 0:19:55if she can do it, I can do it.
0:19:55 > 0:20:00Sometimes, because women get married and have children
0:20:00 > 0:20:05there's a period in their lives where they don't have the time.
0:20:05 > 0:20:10We have to consider that when we appoint head teachers.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12That is true, Nerys, isn't it?
0:20:12 > 0:20:16If you look at the salaries of people in their 20s,
0:20:16 > 0:20:20the salaries of men and women are more or less equal.
0:20:20 > 0:20:24If you look at the salaries of people when they get to their 40s,
0:20:24 > 0:20:27there's an inequality because of what's happened
0:20:27 > 0:20:29in the lives of women.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33That's true of teachers, politicians, or factory workers.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37You have to put structures in place to ensure equality.
0:20:37 > 0:20:42It falls on the political parties to take this serious.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45At the moment, Plaid Cymru
0:20:45 > 0:20:50is trying to attract a wide range of people to stand in elections.
0:20:50 > 0:20:55We need to look at mentoring systems and give women confidence.
0:20:55 > 0:21:00And we have to look at the skills you need to be a good politician.
0:21:00 > 0:21:04Most of these parties choose candidates on making a speech
0:21:04 > 0:21:07and answering questions.
0:21:07 > 0:21:09Those aren't the only skills you need.
0:21:09 > 0:21:14You need other skills, like listening to be a good politician.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18You have to understand sensitive matters
0:21:18 > 0:21:20and deal sensitively with people.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24And also ways of talking about your experience.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27Another example someone mentioned was
0:21:27 > 0:21:30if you are a parent and you show an interest in your child's school
0:21:30 > 0:21:36if you're a father they tend to push you towards the board of governors.
0:21:36 > 0:21:41If you're a mother, they push you towards the parents society.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45There are some prejudices which are basic in our society.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49Yes, and I would say they exist in political parties.
0:21:49 > 0:21:54Usually 40% or 50% of membership of political parties are females
0:21:54 > 0:21:59and they tend to do the jobs like the secretary of the branch
0:21:59 > 0:22:02instead of being the treasurer or the chairman.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04We have to look at that.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07We need to attract people to these jobs and show them
0:22:07 > 0:22:10that it's possible to do it.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13Is this true of the Conservatives?
0:22:13 > 0:22:18When you go to the local societies, do you see a lot of women
0:22:18 > 0:22:21but they are not doing the public jobs?
0:22:21 > 0:22:25I'm not sure about that now.
0:22:25 > 0:22:30A lot of women take part in the decisions the party makes.
0:22:30 > 0:22:36It's important for us as a party to try and explain
0:22:36 > 0:22:41to women who take part what about doing it publicly
0:22:41 > 0:22:45instead of just working in the background?
0:22:45 > 0:22:50Come out and make your points in front of everyone
0:22:50 > 0:22:56and show people that all kinds of women can take part in public life.
0:22:56 > 0:23:02I'm not sure whether that will happen soon.
0:23:02 > 0:23:07But there are a lot of young girls coming through now
0:23:07 > 0:23:11who have confidence and who are willing to be seen by other people
0:23:11 > 0:23:14talking on policies.
0:23:14 > 0:23:18The last word from you, Keith Davies,
0:23:18 > 0:23:23who's in charge in the Labour Party in Llanelli?
0:23:23 > 0:23:28There are four of us, three women and me. So I stay quiet.
0:23:31 > 0:23:35So, in the committee meetings, the men are with the NUM ties,
0:23:35 > 0:23:39outside their pullovers.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43The days of the NUM has changed.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46Things have changed, I have to say.
0:23:46 > 0:23:51More and more women are coming to our meetings in Llanelli.
0:23:51 > 0:23:53Thank you all.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56That's it. Thanks to our guests and thanks for watching.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59We'll be back at the same time next week.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03If you can't wait until then, I will be on "O'r Bae" on Radio Cymru
0:24:03 > 0:24:05at 2pm on Friday.
0:24:05 > 0:24:07For now, For now, goodbye.