0:00:19 > 0:00:21Good evening and welcome to CF99,
0:00:21 > 0:00:24live from the Assembly in Cardiff Bay.
0:00:24 > 0:00:26On the programme tonight:
0:00:26 > 0:00:30As we approach local elections on Anglesey and parts of England,
0:00:30 > 0:00:32we ask what's at stake?
0:00:32 > 0:00:35Welsh Lions will be leading the team out onto the rugby pitch
0:00:35 > 0:00:39but is Scotland the key player in the constitutional game?
0:00:39 > 0:00:41And we'll ask this man
0:00:41 > 0:00:45whether our politicians make enough use of comedy.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50Gary Slaymaker will join us in a moment but joining me
0:00:50 > 0:00:54here is Richard Wyn Jones from the Wales Governance Centre
0:00:54 > 0:00:58at Cardiff University and the political commentator, Gareth Hughes.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00Welcome, both.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03Tomorrow, the people of Anglesey get a chance to elect new
0:01:03 > 0:01:08councillors following a troubled time in the island's political history.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11This is the only part of Wales to vote tomorrow,
0:01:11 > 0:01:14though there are by-elections in several parts of England.
0:01:14 > 0:01:17Here's our political editor Betsan Powys
0:01:17 > 0:01:20with a summery of the battle being played out on the island.
0:01:28 > 0:01:34Anglesey. Famous for its bridges, port and its power station.
0:01:34 > 0:01:38But over the last few years, its headlines have made painful reading
0:01:38 > 0:01:41as a result of its political problems.
0:01:43 > 0:01:47Those problems were so bad that the minister in Cardiff,
0:01:47 > 0:01:52his patience exhausted, sent a crew of commissioners to oversee things.
0:01:52 > 0:01:56And they wouldn't leave until the new minister was satisfied
0:01:56 > 0:01:59that the council was being run as it should.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03The independents make the point that things have improved recently
0:02:03 > 0:02:07under their own leadership but it's clear that tomorrow's election
0:02:07 > 0:02:12is an opportunity for the political parties to make their mark.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15All five parties promise to offer disciplined political
0:02:15 > 0:02:18leadership to the council.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21The four main parties and UKIP are eager to slacken the grip
0:02:21 > 0:02:24of the independents and gain ground on Anglesey.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27So what are the hot topics on the doorstep?
0:02:27 > 0:02:30The economy, work, the need for job creation for young
0:02:30 > 0:02:35people in particular, investment in roads, libraries and post offices.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39But the message on all the doorsteps is change.
0:02:39 > 0:02:41The appetite not to turn back the clock
0:02:41 > 0:02:45but to open a new chapter on the history of Anglesey.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48So Anglesey, the mother of Wales,
0:02:48 > 0:02:51but in the past the naughty little child of Welsh local government.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55To what extent has that already changed?
0:02:55 > 0:02:59What effect will the new electoral system have tomorrow?
0:02:59 > 0:03:02How brave will the people of Anglesey be with their second
0:03:02 > 0:03:07and third votes? How much change will we see in reality?
0:03:07 > 0:03:10From Mon over to Vaughan. Discuss.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15Betsan Powys.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17As you're from Anglesey we'll begin with you, Richard.
0:03:17 > 0:03:21In one sense, Carl Sargeant can be fairly satisfied
0:03:21 > 0:03:24that his scheme has worked in the sense that
0:03:24 > 0:03:26he's got rid of these undisputed elections,
0:03:26 > 0:03:30ensuring that the parties nominate candidates. That's succeeded.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33Yes, and we must acknowledge that.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36There's been a real problem with councillors on Anglesey.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39Certainly nobody on Anglesey denies that.
0:03:39 > 0:03:43And at least there's an opportunity to set up a new structure
0:03:43 > 0:03:46and a discussion on policy
0:03:46 > 0:03:49so know what people stand for before they're elected,
0:03:49 > 0:03:52and they know what party they're a member of before they're elected.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54There's a tradition of politicians
0:03:54 > 0:03:56becoming members of after being elected.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59Probably the only place in the world where that happens.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01So there has been a change.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03I don't want to be negative but there's a problem
0:04:03 > 0:04:06with local government structure in Wales.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10There are far too many small units
0:04:10 > 0:04:16and some of the key problems on Anglesey will remain as a result, unfortunately.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18So Gareth, I must ask the question,
0:04:18 > 0:04:21are the independents going to be a rare breed come Friday?
0:04:21 > 0:04:24The debate is going to change.
0:04:24 > 0:04:29The debate will move from the council chamber over to the political parties.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32And we know what that's like behind-the-scenes.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36I don't know if this is imbued with new democratic significance.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38I don't really see that myself.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42I've got lots of experience of political parties
0:04:42 > 0:04:45and you never know what on earth is going on!
0:04:45 > 0:04:47So is that a good thing or a bad thing?
0:04:47 > 0:04:51There has been a big problem with councillors being elected in uncontested elections.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54At least there is competition this time.
0:04:54 > 0:04:57I think everybody has to welcome that change.
0:04:57 > 0:05:01But of course, we don't know the result. It's hard to know.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04There are so many parties and possible factors,
0:05:04 > 0:05:09maybe there won't be a sensible majority within the council.
0:05:09 > 0:05:10That's interesting, isn't it?
0:05:10 > 0:05:15Gareth, it's interesting that Carl Sargeant hasn't pulled out the commissioners from the island.
0:05:15 > 0:05:23He clearly wants to see a Cabinet elected with a governing majority and a programme of government.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25That's what we're lacking, of course.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29There are parties there, how are they going to work together?
0:05:29 > 0:05:33Will Plaid Cymru and Labour, the two largest parties,
0:05:33 > 0:05:35I would have thought, after tomorrow,
0:05:35 > 0:05:38are they able to co-operate?
0:05:38 > 0:05:41They have worked together before on the island
0:05:41 > 0:05:44but Labour Party members were thrown out at the time.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47John Chorlton and others, there.
0:05:47 > 0:05:52So I don't know if that will be something that's going to happen
0:05:52 > 0:05:57because the Labour Party is very conservative when it comes to coalition.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01Let's cast an eye over the other side of Offa's Dyke.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03UKIP has received a lot of attention.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07One opinion poll, in particular, has received a lot of attention.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10I believe people have misinterpreted that
0:06:10 > 0:06:13because it measured votes just in rural parts of the country.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16People saw it as a bad thing that Labour were on an even footing
0:06:16 > 0:06:18with the Conservatives.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21That is seen as a good thing in Tory areas, Richard.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23What can we read from that?
0:06:23 > 0:06:27You know, the big story will be the UKIP performance,
0:06:27 > 0:06:29whether it be bad or good.
0:06:29 > 0:06:33There is so much pressure on that result, now.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36But in terms of the Conservatives and the Labour Party,
0:06:36 > 0:06:40because the interesting thing in the North of England
0:06:40 > 0:06:44is that now the Liberal Democrats have fallen behind,
0:06:44 > 0:06:47where is the opposition to Labour in Labour strongholds?
0:06:47 > 0:06:51And I think UKIP will do moderately well to very well
0:06:51 > 0:06:53in completely unexpected areas
0:06:53 > 0:06:56just because there is no other challenge to the Labour Party.
0:06:56 > 0:07:01So I think the UKIP story could be interesting on several levels.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04I think this is a new phenomenon on in the United Kingdom.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06You hear about countries like France
0:07:06 > 0:07:09where there are movements they call pugilist,
0:07:09 > 0:07:11populist right-wing movements.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13We see it in the US as well.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15It isn't something we've seen in the United Kingdom.
0:07:15 > 0:07:19No, and I think it will be interesting,
0:07:19 > 0:07:23as we were saying before, if you look at the results in Wales last time,
0:07:23 > 0:07:28UKIP were behind the BNP when you looked at parties in Wales.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31The BNP, when you looked at the parties in Wales,
0:07:31 > 0:07:34in every place the BNP stood, UKIP trailed behind.
0:07:34 > 0:07:39It shows that there is an extreme right-wing vote.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42UKIP have gone far beyond the field of the National front,
0:07:42 > 0:07:45the BNP or League of Empire Loyalists or whoever.
0:07:45 > 0:07:50I am spending time at the moment, writing a big piece on UKIP.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54One of the interesting things about them is in terms of the identity
0:07:54 > 0:07:59of the people who vote for them, it is English people who vote for them, not Britons.
0:07:59 > 0:08:01Even though it's to do with the Union Jack.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05Just saying this is an extreme right-wing movement is too simplistic.
0:08:05 > 0:08:10There's a wave of discontent in England and they will surf it.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12It is a very, very English party in terms of identity.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16In Wales, it is more British but in England, it is an English party.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19Yes, interesting. We must move on, friends.
0:08:19 > 0:08:23In a letter to the chancellor George Osborne this week,
0:08:23 > 0:08:27the first Minister of Wales says that devolving financial powers
0:08:27 > 0:08:31to Wales could influence the independence debate in Scotland.
0:08:31 > 0:08:36What is the significance of this latest development in the constitutional game?
0:08:36 > 0:08:41James Williams turns to the playing fields to analyse the strategy.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49From the political fields in Cardiff Bay, Westminster and beyond,
0:08:49 > 0:08:51find news on analysis on CF99.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56In sport, the big news is that the Lions coach
0:08:56 > 0:09:01Warren Gatland has announced the squad for the tour of Australia.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04The big challenge is to ensure the players from all four teams
0:09:04 > 0:09:06all push in the same direction.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09But politically speaking,
0:09:09 > 0:09:12there's not much cooperation between members of the United Kingdom.
0:09:12 > 0:09:14The future of Britain is uncertain
0:09:14 > 0:09:18as Scotland threatens to leave the team altogether.
0:09:18 > 0:09:22Welsh captain Carwyn Jones wants to keep the squad together.
0:09:22 > 0:09:26He sent a letter to the chancellor George Osborne to say
0:09:26 > 0:09:30he should action the Silk Commission recommendations on the future
0:09:30 > 0:09:33of devolution to set up a fair funding system for Wales,
0:09:33 > 0:09:37because that would show that devolution can work to the benefit of the union.
0:09:37 > 0:09:43Failing to do so, he says, would be handing over the momentum to the leader of the SNP, Alex Salmond,
0:09:43 > 0:09:46and those campaigning in favour of Scottish independence.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51The thing is that the United Kingdom Government says that
0:09:51 > 0:09:54Scotland would be handed more powers after a referendum.
0:09:54 > 0:09:58In order to show there's goodwill, it's important that they can say, "look what's happened in Wales".
0:09:58 > 0:10:01There hasn't been a referendum there but despite that,
0:10:01 > 0:10:04further powers have been handed to the Assembly in Wales
0:10:04 > 0:10:07so you can trust us after the referendum.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09I obviously want to make sure that Scotland
0:10:09 > 0:10:11stays in the United Kingdom.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13The concern for the Lions is that they would be too much
0:10:13 > 0:10:17Welsh influence in the squad but constitutionally speaking,
0:10:17 > 0:10:22is there a threat that Scotland is dictating the terms?
0:10:22 > 0:10:25There is a danger of that and say we must make sure that Welsh interests
0:10:25 > 0:10:29are considered by the United Kingdom Government.
0:10:29 > 0:10:33Like the Lions, who haven't won a test series since 1997,
0:10:33 > 0:10:35there is a point to prove.
0:10:35 > 0:10:40And for supporters of the union, they need to show that devolution
0:10:40 > 0:10:43and not independence is the best model for the countries of the UK.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52James Williams.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55Gareth, what do you make of this tactic from Carwyn Jones?
0:10:55 > 0:10:59I don't think it's going to influence
0:10:59 > 0:11:01what is going on in Scotland at all.
0:11:01 > 0:11:05The debate will wage on in Scotland
0:11:05 > 0:11:08and Richard has a better knowledge of that than me.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12But I'm not sure that was Carwyn's reason for writing the letter.
0:11:12 > 0:11:17He wants to influence Westminster to give us these powers. Why?
0:11:17 > 0:11:21He wouldn't have a hope of receiving those powers
0:11:21 > 0:11:26if Labour was elected after the next general election
0:11:26 > 0:11:31because the majority of the Labour Party in the House of Commons
0:11:31 > 0:11:35are opposed to giving further powers to this place.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38Owen Smith has gone around saying that he doesn't want
0:11:38 > 0:11:41tax-raising powers in Wales at all.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45So that is Carwyn Jones's tactic, to make sure that is
0:11:45 > 0:11:48out of the way before a Labour government gets in at Westminster.
0:11:48 > 0:11:52That's an extraordinary thing to say, for someone who knows the Labour Party.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55- Do you agree?- I hadn't considered that angle at all.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59I saw it as a strike across the bows to David Jones.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04We've had a couple of interesting weekends where the Liberal Democrats conference was held,
0:12:04 > 0:12:07where Danny Alexander made a very, very, very strong statement
0:12:07 > 0:12:10in favour of implementing Silk Commission guidelines in full.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12Then the following weekend,
0:12:12 > 0:12:15the Home Secretary didn't mention it,
0:12:15 > 0:12:18literally didn't mention it, in his speech.
0:12:18 > 0:12:23I think that's quite revealing that he isn't eager to devolve more power to this place.
0:12:23 > 0:12:27So I saw it in terms of the internal battle within the London coalition,
0:12:27 > 0:12:29which is certainly going on,
0:12:29 > 0:12:33to try and strengthen the Liberal Democrat arm of the coalition.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37But isn't there something a bit
0:12:37 > 0:12:40- and I'm trying to choose my words carefully, here -
0:12:40 > 0:12:45something a bit precocious, perhaps, to suggest that Westminster
0:12:45 > 0:12:48Government decisions over the Silk Commission
0:12:48 > 0:12:51recommendations on funding for Wales
0:12:51 > 0:12:55will have a massive influence on the result of the Scottish referendum?
0:12:55 > 0:12:58I'd go further to say there is no reason in the assumption
0:12:58 > 0:13:02that catching up with Scotland now, perhaps, will mean that Scottish people will say,
0:13:02 > 0:13:06"We don't need independence because Wales has now caught up with us."
0:13:06 > 0:13:08I just don't see that.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12The debate on the future of Scotland is a completely different one
0:13:12 > 0:13:15and nobody in Scotland is taking any notice of what's going on in Wales.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18What is even stranger is that today,
0:13:18 > 0:13:22after saying he wants to implement the Silk recommendations in full,
0:13:22 > 0:13:26now he says, "Look, boys. We want to reform Barnett."
0:13:26 > 0:13:30Reforming Barnett could mean a lot of things but quite literally,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33it means taking lots of money out of Scotland.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36The best way to ensure Scotland votes Yes
0:13:36 > 0:13:39is to reform the Barnett formula
0:13:39 > 0:13:42but it seems today that's what Carwyn Jones is calling for.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44That is very strange.
0:13:44 > 0:13:47But that's why I'm saying it's nothing to do with Scotland.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50It has more to do with Welsh politics
0:13:50 > 0:13:54and Labour Party politics in Wales.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58An issue for Welsh MPs and Assembly members.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01And there is a schism between them.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03And that is the point of that letter.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06I know that in this place,
0:14:06 > 0:14:09they have been complaining about what's been going on
0:14:09 > 0:14:13with the Labour Party in England,
0:14:13 > 0:14:16about Welsh MPs going out and saying they don't want Barnett.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20Carwyn Jones knows that and that was his tactic.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24Is there an aspect, here, that perhaps there are people here
0:14:24 > 0:14:28and on opposition benches as well as in government,
0:14:28 > 0:14:31that believe London isn't receiving the message loud and clear,
0:14:31 > 0:14:35because there are Welsh politicians in England saying, "Don't listen to the Assembly.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38"They don't really want these things. They are just saying it."
0:14:38 > 0:14:41Certainly, that's happening. There is no doubt about that.
0:14:41 > 0:14:46And there are people that say things publicly in this place
0:14:46 > 0:14:52and then say slightly different things in different circles.
0:14:52 > 0:14:56And so it isn't unreasonable for some of these Welsh politicians
0:14:56 > 0:14:59to go around in London and say,
0:14:59 > 0:15:03"They're not serious about this, boys."
0:15:03 > 0:15:08Have we reached a situation where the Westminster Government must now decide who to listen to?
0:15:08 > 0:15:13They have promised a decision before the end of spring.
0:15:13 > 0:15:15I think spring technically lasts until 20th June.
0:15:15 > 0:15:21I only learned that today. But they need to decide soon.
0:15:21 > 0:15:26The commission, now they are talking about tax-raising powers
0:15:26 > 0:15:30and I think that is something the Conservatives fundamentally want.
0:15:30 > 0:15:35They want to hand responsibility to this place for its own spending.
0:15:35 > 0:15:41I don't think it would be difficult for David Jones to bite his tongue and to see this through.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44Just briefly, I was at a meeting with Ruth Davidson,
0:15:44 > 0:15:47the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, last weekend,
0:15:47 > 0:15:49and she was arguing in favour of devolving taxes
0:15:49 > 0:15:51from a right-wing perspective
0:15:51 > 0:15:53but the Welsh Conservatives in the audience,
0:15:53 > 0:15:55for them it was a totally alien prospect.
0:15:55 > 0:15:56Thank you.
0:15:56 > 0:16:00We all know that politics is a serious business
0:16:00 > 0:16:03but it's important for us all to smile now and again.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06Barack Obama has succeeded in doing that in a video
0:16:06 > 0:16:11where he pretends to play Daniel Day Lewis playing Barack Obama.
0:16:13 > 0:16:15Was it hard playing Obama?
0:16:15 > 0:16:18I'll be honest. Yeah, it was.
0:16:18 > 0:16:19This accident took a while.
0:16:19 > 0:16:23Hello, Ohio. Hello, Ohio! I love you back.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25Look. Look. Let me be clear about this.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27'The cosmetics were challenging.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30'You wouldn't believe how long it takes to put these ears on.'
0:16:30 > 0:16:33I don't know how he walks around with these things.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37The hardest part? Trying to understand his motivations.
0:16:37 > 0:16:41Why did he pursue health care first? What makes him tick?
0:16:41 > 0:16:44Why doesn't he get mad? If I were him, I'd be mad all the time.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47But I'm not him. I'm Daniel Day Lewis.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03Well, how effective is comedy in politics
0:17:03 > 0:17:06and are there enough laughs in Welsh politics?
0:17:06 > 0:17:09I am joined by entertainer and comedian Gary Slaymaker.
0:17:09 > 0:17:13It's hard to imagine a British politician even attempting something like that.
0:17:13 > 0:17:17Yes. I think this is the domain of the Americans.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20That was part of the Press Association speech that he
0:17:20 > 0:17:23made at the beginning of the week and it was full of humour.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26And it was humour aimed at himself.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30I think the problem is that our politicians overthink things.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33So they can't make fun of themselves.
0:17:33 > 0:17:35But what was interesting,
0:17:35 > 0:17:38and I'm sure he had a team of writers behind it
0:17:38 > 0:17:40and a professional film crew to capture it
0:17:40 > 0:17:44but it does require some degree of natural comedic timing, doesn't it?
0:17:44 > 0:17:49- He clearly has it.- Yes. That was clear to see in the speech itself.
0:17:49 > 0:17:53Anyone can learn to tell a joke that's timing is innate.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56Barack Obama clearly has it.
0:17:56 > 0:17:58George W Bush, even though I wasn't a fan,
0:17:58 > 0:18:01clearly had it to some degree. He made several of these as well.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04There was just something in his nature.
0:18:04 > 0:18:07I think he knew that he was a buffoon, to say the least
0:18:07 > 0:18:12and of course, the scripts were then written with that in mind.
0:18:12 > 0:18:17I would have thought that the fear for British politicians is that things could go wrong.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20One can think of examples, like Tony Banks calling William Hague,
0:18:20 > 0:18:24"looks like an aborted foetus", I think was one.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28- The disaster that happened when the Liberal Democrats...- Sarah Teather.
0:18:28 > 0:18:33Yes. Anyone who performs comedy has watched that.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36There was also a clip on Question Time
0:18:36 > 0:18:39when a woman in the audience made a biting quip
0:18:39 > 0:18:42and Sarah Teather didn't realise that it was a joke
0:18:42 > 0:18:44until David Dimbleby had to point it out to her.
0:18:44 > 0:18:48What I say is if you don't understand a joke, don't tell it!
0:18:48 > 0:18:51Because she would just read out these jokes and you could almost see
0:18:51 > 0:18:54the tumbleweed rolling through the studio!
0:18:54 > 0:18:58Why, Richard, do you think, and there are examples of politicians
0:18:58 > 0:19:00using humour, Tony Banks is one of them.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02But it is rare in our politics, isn't it?
0:19:02 > 0:19:06Obama is in a situation where not only is he a great orator
0:19:06 > 0:19:09but the role of president is a bit above politics
0:19:09 > 0:19:12so you got a bit more freedom in that role
0:19:12 > 0:19:15but I've been to party conferences in Wales over the past few weeks
0:19:15 > 0:19:18and I heard just one good joke,
0:19:18 > 0:19:20which was Nick Clegg's joke about Lembit Opik.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23That was the only genuinely funny one.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26The other efforts were truly painful. Lots of mentions of sport.
0:19:26 > 0:19:30I was going to say, more painful than the stuff about Cardiff city
0:19:30 > 0:19:33- and the Swans and the Grand Slam? - It was awful.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36Those efforts to connect with people were embarrassing.
0:19:36 > 0:19:41There was just one good joke in all of those conferences!
0:19:41 > 0:19:45The problem is they get good scripts but they can't present them well.
0:19:45 > 0:19:50I think that is also lacking in our politics.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53In the chamber here, how many speeches do we hear?
0:19:53 > 0:19:56And half of them can't even read out their questions!
0:19:56 > 0:20:00They aren't going to tell a joke if they can't even read out
0:20:00 > 0:20:04a question on politics, which is their job!
0:20:04 > 0:20:09And yet Gary, there are comedians, plenty of them,
0:20:09 > 0:20:13who make political comments. It stems back to Ben Elton.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16They are almost all left-wing.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19There is a history, especially in Wales, we have a history of satire.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22I fronted a programme on Radio Cymru for five years
0:20:22 > 0:20:25where we just lampooned figures in the news.
0:20:25 > 0:20:30You can go back to Pupur a Halen on Radio Cymru, Pelydr X,
0:20:30 > 0:20:32programs like this.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35It's easier to be on the outside, looking in on these
0:20:35 > 0:20:40targets in government because PR is everything in politics now.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43Image is so important. They can't let go.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46We have the same problem in politics as in sport.
0:20:46 > 0:20:47There are no personalities left.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52Everything is controlled to such an extent that humour is stifled.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55You talk about a lack of personalities.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58What about someone like Boris Johnson,
0:20:58 > 0:21:02who I'm not quite sure if he's making jokes
0:21:02 > 0:21:06or whether he's some kind of performance art in himself.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10Boris is an exception. He is a lovable buffoon.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13A lot of the humour stemming from politics
0:21:13 > 0:21:16comes from the perspective of the absurd.
0:21:16 > 0:21:18Like John Redwood trying to sing the national anthem
0:21:18 > 0:21:22or Boris stuck in a harness at the Olympic Games last year
0:21:22 > 0:21:24or David Cameron being elected Prime Minister.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27It doesn't get more absurd!
0:21:27 > 0:21:29But I think that's what it is.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32When we see these perfect personalities at their worst,
0:21:32 > 0:21:37- that's where the comedy comes from. - In a way, it's our fault.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39We've just been making fun of Sarah Teather
0:21:39 > 0:21:41for trying to tell a joke and failing.
0:21:41 > 0:21:44The thing is it's easier for them not to take the risk.
0:21:44 > 0:21:46It's easier for them to play it safe
0:21:46 > 0:21:49because if they happen to get it wrong,
0:21:49 > 0:21:52and even comedians get it wrong sometimes, they won't be forgiven.
0:21:52 > 0:21:57We will be there making fun of them on programmes like this, sniggering about it.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00The best jokes happen by accident.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03Maggie Thatcher saying,
0:22:03 > 0:22:06"Every prime minister needs their own Willie".
0:22:06 > 0:22:09I hadn't realised at the time she was talking about Willie Whitelaw!
0:22:09 > 0:22:12Isn't that the problem, Gareth?
0:22:12 > 0:22:16British humour is fairly crude and if you say something that is crude,
0:22:16 > 0:22:22the Daily Mail and the Daily Express will be after you in their usual puritanical way.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25As Richard said, why take the risk?
0:22:25 > 0:22:28Yes but the thing is, what I'm saying is
0:22:28 > 0:22:32they don't take the risk but they remain figures of fun in our world.
0:22:32 > 0:22:37There is comedy in the House of Commons.
0:22:37 > 0:22:41If we look at Dennis Skinner for example,
0:22:41 > 0:22:44you can't get a better comedian than Dennis Skinner
0:22:44 > 0:22:47and when you hear him speak in places like Blackpool,
0:22:47 > 0:22:50he's better than any stand-up, in my opinion.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53But the nature of the House of Commons has changed as well.
0:22:53 > 0:22:57We don't have so many of those kind of skirmishes
0:22:59 > 0:23:03as we had in the early days.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06Gary, you were talking about the tradition of satire in Wales.
0:23:06 > 0:23:10There isn't so much of that around nowadays.
0:23:10 > 0:23:13- Is that because of a lack of characters?- To some extent.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15At the same time, you can't write comedy
0:23:15 > 0:23:18that rivals what the parties are handing us at the moment.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21Miliband looks as though he was created by Aardman animation company
0:23:21 > 0:23:24in the first place so there isn't much you can do to add to that.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28Of course, the clowns we've got in this coalition,
0:23:28 > 0:23:30it's one mess after another.
0:23:30 > 0:23:35It's hard to write jokes when they do it for you.
0:23:35 > 0:23:39You were talking about some of those programs like Haciwr and so on,
0:23:39 > 0:23:43Spitting Image in English, where are those programs today?
0:23:43 > 0:23:46It's a shame because you only got Mock The Week
0:23:46 > 0:23:48and Have I Got News For You?
0:23:48 > 0:23:52Our political situation is so interesting
0:23:52 > 0:23:54that there should be more satire.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56Thank you very much.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58That's all for tonight. Thank you for watching.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01We'll be back at the same time next week. Join us then.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05For now, from the Assembly in Cardiff Bay, good night.