0:00:20 > 0:00:23Good evening and welcome to CF99,
0:00:23 > 0:00:25the Assembly postcode here in Cardiff Bay.
0:00:25 > 0:00:29On tonight's programme: The Assembly's Presiding Officer
0:00:29 > 0:00:33calls on the British press to pay more attention to Welsh politicians.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Everyone has some kind of responsibility
0:00:35 > 0:00:39but if I was a politician in Wales at the moment, I would start
0:00:39 > 0:00:43by looking closer to home and stop with the mudslinging towards London.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45And accusations that there is too much finger-pointing and not
0:00:45 > 0:00:50enough action from this minister over changes to the welfare state.
0:00:50 > 0:00:55I think Huw Lewis is irresponsible and he isn't looking at what we can do in Cardiff but moreover,
0:00:55 > 0:00:58he has no ambition for the people of Wales.
0:00:58 > 0:01:03Joining us tonight is Lord Dafydd Wigley, former Plaid Cymru leader,
0:01:03 > 0:01:08and Westminster Labour frontbencher, MP for Llanelli, Nia Griffith.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13First to the changes to the benefit system.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16The Communities and Tackling Poverty Minister in Cardiff Bay
0:01:16 > 0:01:21has been under pressure this week for not doing enough to prepare for the coming changes.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Huw Lewis says the planned government changes
0:01:24 > 0:01:27will have a dramatic affect on our communities,
0:01:27 > 0:01:32the major change being the decision to combine numerous benefits into one universal payment,
0:01:32 > 0:01:35being introduced gradually from this autumn.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38But how will he ensure Wales is able to cope with the new system?
0:01:38 > 0:01:41Here's James Williams.
0:01:50 > 0:01:53There are major changes ahead.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56The landscape has already started to change
0:01:56 > 0:02:01as some of the plans to reform the welfare state were introduced over the last few weeks.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05On a sunny day like today, the stormy debate
0:02:05 > 0:02:08over the future of the welfare state feels a long way off,
0:02:08 > 0:02:10but the changes are far-reaching.
0:02:10 > 0:02:15Some talk of social turmoil, a tsunami of unemployment.
0:02:15 > 0:02:17But others dismissed this as rhetoric,
0:02:17 > 0:02:21saying the most vulnerable in our society will not miss out.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25The Welsh Government says that one in five people in Wales
0:02:25 > 0:02:28are dependant on some kind of benefit
0:02:28 > 0:02:32and Wales could miss out on £1 billion a year as a result of these changes.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37The Government estimates households in Wales will lose on average
0:02:37 > 0:02:39four percent of their income,
0:02:39 > 0:02:43that is somewhat higher than the United Kingdom average.
0:02:43 > 0:02:47The Welsh Government says that the poor will miss out as a result of these changes
0:02:47 > 0:02:49and not for the first time,
0:02:49 > 0:02:53minister Huw Lewis was blunt in his criticism yesterday.
0:02:53 > 0:02:55We are not dealing here with a natural disaster,
0:02:55 > 0:03:00having to find resources to help a community recover from a flood or landslip.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04This is an entirely man-made situation.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07It is the deliberate decision of a government to target
0:03:07 > 0:03:10the weakest and most vulnerable members of our society.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13That decision did not have to be made.
0:03:13 > 0:03:17But the coalition insist it's making a complex and unfair system
0:03:17 > 0:03:21fairer and has accused Mr Lewis of scaremongering.
0:03:21 > 0:03:23I think Huw Lewis is irresponsible.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26He isn't looking at what government can do here in Cardiff
0:03:26 > 0:03:29but moreover, he has no ambition for the people of Wales,
0:03:29 > 0:03:33he only feels as though the majority of the people in Wales
0:03:33 > 0:03:36have no future apart from relying on benefits.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39If that is Huw Lewis's ambition for the people of Wales,
0:03:39 > 0:03:41I can assure them that's not what we want to see.
0:03:41 > 0:03:45We want to see people in Wales getting work and being self-sufficient,
0:03:45 > 0:03:49rather than relying on the welfare state, like Huw Lewis believes should be the case.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53The Welsh Government was criticised by one of the Assembly committees
0:03:53 > 0:03:57yesterday over the way it dealt with changes to council tax changes.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00There was too much emphasis on politics to the detriment
0:04:00 > 0:04:02of the correct system, in their opinion.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05There have also been criticisms that the Government has been
0:04:05 > 0:04:08too eager to finger point and slow to offer answers.
0:04:10 > 0:04:15It's clear that the Welsh Government had hoped that it could just blame
0:04:15 > 0:04:19the London Government and then use that as a weapon in the election.
0:04:19 > 0:04:24But I think they've realised that they can't do that for three years.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26So they do have a problem
0:04:26 > 0:04:29and Huw Lewis addressed the committee the other week,
0:04:29 > 0:04:35and in response to one of his own members,
0:04:35 > 0:04:39he said that the government strategy was piecemeal.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42That's when you react according to the situation.
0:04:42 > 0:04:48That is not a strategy. That shows a lack of planning.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52In a way, we've had over £100 million extra.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54We welcome the extra money.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58We welcome the fact they have put in £20 million extra to build more
0:04:58 > 0:05:01appropriate one and two-bedroomed housing, which we know we'll be lacking,
0:05:01 > 0:05:06But I would say but we need a better strategy.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09The Welsh Government has said it has a number of policies
0:05:09 > 0:05:12to help the most vulnerable in our society.
0:05:12 > 0:05:16"From expanding support for families in our most impoverished areas,
0:05:16 > 0:05:19"supporting people through our council tax benefits programme
0:05:19 > 0:05:24"to investing £75 million in the Communities First programme."
0:05:24 > 0:05:27According to a spokesperson for the Labour Government
0:05:27 > 0:05:33it is working on behalf of the people of Wales while Plaid Cymru is once again accepting Tory cuts.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36With so many changes still to come, there are fears that the most needy
0:05:36 > 0:05:40will need more help before the storm blows over.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46Both of you will agree that you are not happy
0:05:46 > 0:05:48with all of the changes being introduced.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51But Dafydd, do you share the feeling
0:05:51 > 0:05:54that the Welsh Government is more than willing
0:05:54 > 0:05:56to take advantage of those cuts for political reasons,
0:05:56 > 0:05:58rather than finding a way to allay them?
0:05:58 > 0:06:02This goes back to the 2011 election.
0:06:02 > 0:06:06Labour fought the election for the Assembly, and said on stage
0:06:06 > 0:06:10that they would fight to defend Wales from these cuts.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13So far, they have not managed to do that.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16Perhaps it is impossible, but they were elected on that promise
0:06:16 > 0:06:19and now they need a strategy.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22A number of Labour Assembly members are criticising their own minister.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25Something has to be done.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28Something needed to be done 12 or 15 months ago, when we saw this coming.
0:06:28 > 0:06:32Gwynedd Council, for the past year, has been saving £800,000
0:06:32 > 0:06:37has worked with the CAB and housing committees and so on,
0:06:37 > 0:06:41in order to have a strategy in place to deal with this problem.
0:06:41 > 0:06:45That hasn't happened at the Assembly and it's the minister's fault.
0:06:45 > 0:06:48Nia Griffith, we saw Huw Lewis appear before the committee,
0:06:48 > 0:06:50as was indicated earlier,
0:06:50 > 0:06:53and it was interesting to see Labour members
0:06:53 > 0:06:55being very critical of the Minister.
0:06:55 > 0:07:00Is this a sign that perhaps Labour had taken its eye off the ball?
0:07:00 > 0:07:03Introducing messages regarding the Conservatives,
0:07:03 > 0:07:06with its mind on political matters, rather than thinking about
0:07:06 > 0:07:09what it is they can do to reduce some of these issues.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13It's important to have an honest discussion
0:07:13 > 0:07:17and I'm glad members are speaking up about this issue.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20But of course, it is a very difficult situation.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23What often happens is that money for disabled and unemployed people
0:07:23 > 0:07:26goes straight from the London Government to the individuals.
0:07:26 > 0:07:31And as Dafydd said, councils are going out to see the individuals
0:07:31 > 0:07:35and it is important to know what their situation is.
0:07:35 > 0:07:40What is happening with the government is it's seeing that it will have to cut back
0:07:40 > 0:07:43on something else if they want to fill the gap.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46For instance with council tax,
0:07:46 > 0:07:52the Government has found £20 million in order to help people.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57Because in England, the poorest people are paying more council tax.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00But that is a perfect example of the criticism from the committee,
0:08:00 > 0:08:03that included Labour members,
0:08:03 > 0:08:05that said that month after month you were saying,
0:08:05 > 0:08:09"Nothing can be done until the figures are released."
0:08:09 > 0:08:13Even though councils in England had already operated on the basis
0:08:13 > 0:08:18of the projected figures and there wasn't a similar problem in Scotland.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20And then the Assembly had to be called back at the last minute
0:08:20 > 0:08:22over Christmas to introduce and idea,
0:08:22 > 0:08:25when there was terrible uncertainty
0:08:25 > 0:08:27for the individuals and councils involved.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30They need to see what they are doing with the money
0:08:30 > 0:08:33because they have to be certain that there weren't other things
0:08:33 > 0:08:35that were more important.
0:08:35 > 0:08:37That's the problem they've got.
0:08:37 > 0:08:42The Welsh Government has a shortage now because of cut after cut.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46And what's happening is they are trying to prioritise
0:08:46 > 0:08:50helping the poorest people with initiatives like Flying Start
0:08:50 > 0:08:54for young children, along with other programmes.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57They've given three quarters of a million pounds to councils
0:08:57 > 0:09:02to try to help with the fact that people are losing rent money.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04Dafydd.
0:09:04 > 0:09:11The truth is the Government here doesn't have money because Wales isn't funded sufficiently.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15This is the conclusion to many reports, one after the other.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19They say we're £400 million short of the Barnett formula.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22With every respect, Nia,
0:09:22 > 0:09:24your government had time to put this right.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26You had failed to address the issues.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29And there isn't a firm commitment now from a funding perspective.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32And until we get those essential resources to run services,
0:09:32 > 0:09:35there will be pressures like this in Cardiff Bay.
0:09:35 > 0:09:40It is true this was not done during the time Labour were in power
0:09:40 > 0:09:42but over here, Labour in the Assembly can't do this now?
0:09:42 > 0:09:46No. So why did they say they could protect Wales from Tory cuts?
0:09:48 > 0:09:51There are tools, when it comes to poverty,
0:09:51 > 0:09:55Huw Lewis is grandly known as the and Communities and Tackling Poverty Minister,
0:09:55 > 0:09:59but the relevant, important tools are your end of the M4.
0:09:59 > 0:10:02They are in Westminster.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04People are calling for strategy and so on,
0:10:04 > 0:10:07but any action taken here would be on the sidelines?
0:10:07 > 0:10:12The strategy is reactive to protect against the cuts taking place.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16In the second chamber, we beat the Government I think 70 times in the last year.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19On these measures cutting back on social funding,
0:10:19 > 0:10:21I think we beat them around 20 times.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23That was overturned in the House of Commons,
0:10:23 > 0:10:26with a Tory and Liberal Democrat majority.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30It's possible to beat the Government if there's the will to do so.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34Let's look at what is likely to happen from next autumn, Nia.
0:10:34 > 0:10:39You must have already had people coming to your surgeries in Llanelli
0:10:39 > 0:10:42telling you they are worried
0:10:42 > 0:10:47and that they don't understand what will happen.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49How much pain is this likely to cause
0:10:49 > 0:10:53in a constituency like yours?
0:10:53 > 0:10:55This is very important.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57People are suffering, that's the problem.
0:10:57 > 0:10:59They are suffering now.
0:10:59 > 0:11:04Many more people will suffer in future, when we have the universal credit.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07But what Huw Lewis has done is look at the digital programme.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09It is very difficult for many people...
0:11:11 > 0:11:15..to get a computer or access to a computer
0:11:15 > 0:11:18so that they can understand what needs to be done.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21They have carried out a pilot now in Manchester.
0:11:21 > 0:11:25If they start with us in Wales in the autumn,
0:11:25 > 0:11:30many people will want to go and fill it in online
0:11:30 > 0:11:33and then many people will find this difficult,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36so this is an important step forward but it is very complicated.
0:11:36 > 0:11:41Every individual is different. That's the problem.
0:11:41 > 0:11:46Dafydd. Give us a prediction. You're experienced in this field.
0:11:46 > 0:11:50People have said universal credit is this Government's poll tax,
0:11:50 > 0:11:55it will be as unpopular as that and elicit a similar response.
0:11:55 > 0:12:00Do you believe that this will be the case or are people exaggerating?
0:12:00 > 0:12:04I think the bedroom tax will be compared to the poll tax.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07You can see that start to bite at the moment.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11All things considered, there are around 30,000 individuals in Gwynedd suffering.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14In the Vale of Glamorgan 610 families are in danger
0:12:14 > 0:12:19just as a result of this bedroom tax issue.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22Of those people, 300 have disabilities.
0:12:22 > 0:12:28There isn't enough money to help those with disabilities alone, let alone the rest.
0:12:28 > 0:12:29People are suffering.
0:12:29 > 0:12:34And this, I believe, is what will undermine the credibility of the current Government.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37Thank you both for now.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39The fact that you are watching this programme suggests you
0:12:39 > 0:12:43are not suffering from the democratic deficit that is being talked about.
0:12:43 > 0:12:45Well done you!
0:12:45 > 0:12:49The Assembly's Presiding Officer Rosemary Butler believes the Assembly
0:12:49 > 0:12:52doesn't get the attention it deserves and democracy is losing out.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55She says part of the problem is the failure of the British press
0:12:55 > 0:12:59to convey the different system that exists in Wales.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02A conference will take place tomorrow in Cardiff Bay
0:13:02 > 0:13:08to discuss how best to get more Cardiff Bay politics on TV and in the newspapers.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11We asked Guto Harri, Director of Communications at News International,
0:13:11 > 0:13:15the publishers of The Sun and The Times, where does the problem lie?
0:13:23 > 0:13:26There is a problem in Wales.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30The indigenous press isn't always as strong, independent
0:13:30 > 0:13:32or as insightful as it could be.
0:13:32 > 0:13:36The press over the border in England,
0:13:36 > 0:13:40sometimes for vague reasons but otherwise fair reasons,
0:13:40 > 0:13:44doesn't take enough notice of the situation in Wales
0:13:44 > 0:13:47so that people can form fair and balanced views
0:13:47 > 0:13:50based on what they have seen on television or radio.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58Outside Wales the story about the Assembly in Cardiff
0:13:58 > 0:14:04has to compete with famine in Africa or a damn being built in China.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07It has to hold its ground as a story
0:14:07 > 0:14:10against many other stories from around the world.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14There aren't going to be many stories on the main network
0:14:14 > 0:14:16bulletins in England on Assembly business,
0:14:16 > 0:14:18and neither should there be.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21That's not to say there's no room for improvement.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25The main challenge for the Welsh press is to lift their game,
0:14:25 > 0:14:29to make its work more gripping and to attract more attention.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32If the Welsh public has an interest
0:14:32 > 0:14:35in holding their politicians to account,
0:14:35 > 0:14:38then they need to watch the programmes that are available
0:14:38 > 0:14:40and read the papers that are available.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48Politicians struggle to identify with people
0:14:48 > 0:14:51and to communicate with people.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54That is also true here at Westminster and elsewhere,
0:14:54 > 0:14:57but good politicians can do this.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59Alex Salmond has managed to do this.
0:14:59 > 0:15:01He can convey his vision
0:15:01 > 0:15:06and explain the direction he wants to take Scotland in within Scotland.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10Strangely enough, as a result of this, because of his clear vision,
0:15:10 > 0:15:14because of the clear picture, there is coverage on network programmes.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18That's not because the English press favours him over Welsh politicians,
0:15:18 > 0:15:22his vision grabs the attention of the newspapers
0:15:22 > 0:15:23and he's a better orator.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27Boris Johnson gets more attention than just about anyone in politics.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30It is the responsibility of Welsh politicians,
0:15:30 > 0:15:33rather than complaining about the press
0:15:33 > 0:15:37and asking for a kind of obligatory press that people have to tune into,
0:15:37 > 0:15:40to sell stories and explain what they're doing.
0:15:40 > 0:15:42If they do this and the story is interesting enough,
0:15:42 > 0:15:46we'll want to cover it and people will want to watch.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53I'm not telling anyone to go out and buy a tie,
0:15:53 > 0:15:57or go to M&S and buy a new suit or skirt.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00That's not the answer, superficial things like that.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04Some people should have a haircut and smarten up a bit.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07We need to talk about the proper issues.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12We need to grab the attention of so-called normal people.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14We need to show them what we're doing,
0:16:14 > 0:16:18why it's relevant and why the world would a better or worse place
0:16:18 > 0:16:21if this happened or doesn't happen.
0:16:21 > 0:16:23It's a key skill.
0:16:23 > 0:16:28If we don't try to achieve anything then as a result,
0:16:28 > 0:16:32it will be difficult to put that across so that people will have an interest in it.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35Everyone has some sort of responsibility.
0:16:35 > 0:16:39If I was a politician in Wales I would start by looking much closer
0:16:39 > 0:16:43to home and stop with the mudslinging towards London.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46Joining Dafydd and Nia now is Marc Evans,
0:16:46 > 0:16:49a Communications Consultant with Civitas Cymru.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Marc, who do you blame for this?
0:16:52 > 0:16:55Do you, like Guto, blame the politicians here?
0:16:55 > 0:17:00I think Guto Harri was trying to get away with the issue there.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03I wouldn't award him the point entirely.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06The editorial in Holyrood Magazine today said
0:17:06 > 0:17:09the press and media in England had
0:17:09 > 0:17:13only just started examining issues in Scotland
0:17:13 > 0:17:17when Gordon Brown stepped into the debate
0:17:17 > 0:17:21and they recently tried to shoehorn in the issues over Europe
0:17:21 > 0:17:24and Nigel Farage's visit along with what Gordon Brown has said.
0:17:24 > 0:17:29They don't always understand that they are issues for the people of Scotland
0:17:29 > 0:17:32and that they should respect the politicians in Scotland.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35I think the same can be said of Wales.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37If the people of Wales don't see the Welsh politicians
0:17:37 > 0:17:42getting due respect, then they will think less of them.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45If we're looking at the attention afforded to Scotland,
0:17:45 > 0:17:47they're debating a big issue.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50They are discussing independence, but what is being talked about here?
0:17:50 > 0:17:53Plastic bags and so on.
0:17:53 > 0:17:58It doesn't seem as though they are trying to find interesting topics to discuss?
0:17:58 > 0:18:03Mr Gove thinks we've hit an issue that's even tripped him up!
0:18:03 > 0:18:06It's a large enough issue for him.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09The media doesn't seem to have shown that Wales has been taking
0:18:09 > 0:18:12a different direction to Westminster for some time.
0:18:12 > 0:18:17They haven't respected the fact that Wales can take another route.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20It's Guto's right that Assembly members
0:18:20 > 0:18:24need to make more of an effort,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27the charities and bodies trying to grab their attention
0:18:27 > 0:18:29have made a great effort to use all sorts of ways
0:18:29 > 0:18:32to grab people's attention
0:18:32 > 0:18:35and imagination to contribute to the argument.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38We don't want to hear politicians talk without giving people
0:18:38 > 0:18:41a chance to respond.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43There's a promising future there
0:18:43 > 0:18:47as new media is opening up avenues for people to contribute to debates
0:18:47 > 0:18:49and respond to politicians.
0:18:49 > 0:18:53Dafydd, do you believe that there is too much complaining going on
0:18:53 > 0:18:58and the truth is the Welsh media looks at what is happening here
0:18:58 > 0:19:01and if people don't want to know about it, then that's that?
0:19:01 > 0:19:05The situation in Scotland is different to Wales.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08First of all, there are half a dozen Scottish papers
0:19:08 > 0:19:11published each morning.
0:19:11 > 0:19:14And also, the British papers have a special Scottish edition.
0:19:14 > 0:19:18There's much more attention paid there.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22It was only in 2011 that Wales was given full legislative powers,
0:19:22 > 0:19:26along with the opportunity to introduce programmes
0:19:26 > 0:19:30on education and health that truly grab people's attention.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33Two years have gone by and we need to take advantage of that now.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36But if the people of Wales are unhappy with the coverage Wales gets
0:19:36 > 0:19:39in the Daily Mail, The Sun or Daily Mirror,
0:19:39 > 0:19:41they don't have to buy the big papers, they could turn to the
0:19:41 > 0:19:45Western Mail if they wanted to know about Welsh politics. But they don't.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48Yes, that's true, but that says more about the Western Mail or Daily Post
0:19:48 > 0:19:51which comes out in the morning in Wales.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56But you will find that more papers in Scotland look at the issues within that country,
0:19:56 > 0:20:00even Newsnight has a Scottish focus in the second half of the programme,
0:20:00 > 0:20:03but here in Cardiff Bay, we need to capture people's attention.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07We need people, as individuals and parties,
0:20:07 > 0:20:10to work more effectively to reach people's minds
0:20:10 > 0:20:15and put forward the ideas that will make a difference to their lives.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17Nia, are you concerned about that situation or do you think,
0:20:17 > 0:20:20"If people want to find out what is happening they can even follow
0:20:20 > 0:20:23"Carmarthenshire's County Council's meetings online?"
0:20:23 > 0:20:26The stuff is there if people look for it.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30I'm concerned because people will watch the main network programmes,
0:20:30 > 0:20:32which is in England,
0:20:32 > 0:20:37and they will think these things will happen in Wales.
0:20:37 > 0:20:41Because sometimes they say, "In England, these changes..."
0:20:41 > 0:20:45but they don't mention that the situation is different in Wales.
0:20:45 > 0:20:49When you consider that education and health is different,
0:20:49 > 0:20:51and so are issues at local council level,
0:20:51 > 0:20:53like planning, for example, is different,
0:20:53 > 0:20:56so things can be very complicated.
0:20:56 > 0:21:00People are getting the wrong message if they just follow network news.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03Politicians can confuse people as well.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05A website was launched today
0:21:05 > 0:21:08as part of a Labour campaign
0:21:08 > 0:21:10to oppose changes to hospitals in Wales,
0:21:10 > 0:21:12which is part of the Welsh health service,
0:21:12 > 0:21:17but Labour are in power in Wales?
0:21:17 > 0:21:21How is the electorate meant to know what on earth is going on?
0:21:21 > 0:21:26We all need to look at what's online, as Marc said.
0:21:26 > 0:21:31What we need are ways to get Welsh news in front of people.
0:21:31 > 0:21:35With the BBC we have BBC Wales and people can switch onto this.
0:21:35 > 0:21:41But in many cases, people are not directed towards that.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45The other thing is we don't use local papers enough.
0:21:45 > 0:21:50Because what's happening is people are buying fewer national papers
0:21:50 > 0:21:53but people love to see photographs
0:21:53 > 0:21:58of local children dressed up for Saint David's Day, for example,
0:21:58 > 0:22:03and if local papers made more of national Welsh news...
0:22:06 > 0:22:09..it would help even more.
0:22:09 > 0:22:15Marc, if you were contracted to advise here, on how to grab people,
0:22:15 > 0:22:18how could you lift the profile of this place?
0:22:18 > 0:22:21I wouldn't put all my faith in new media.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24Some politicians have already learnt that by speeding up
0:22:24 > 0:22:27and shortening their message on the spur of the moment,
0:22:27 > 0:22:30that mistakes can be made with new media.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34There are better ways of returning to the old ways,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37speaking in public in local areas, in their constituencies.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40Now you can use new technology to store and broadcast
0:22:40 > 0:22:43this to spread this further, more effectively.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46Some people are working hard to build up a following
0:22:46 > 0:22:48who are interested in what people are saying
0:22:48 > 0:22:51and they help to spread the news,
0:22:51 > 0:22:53but we still need to have discussions.
0:22:53 > 0:22:55Do we need more theatre in this place?
0:22:55 > 0:22:59Thinking back to the days when you were in the Assembly with Rod Richards and Alun Michael,
0:22:59 > 0:23:01there was plenty of drama in the Chamber.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03The place seems very flat now?
0:23:03 > 0:23:05There are differences between here and Westminster.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08In the House of Commons, there's a possibility,
0:23:08 > 0:23:11come the election, there'll be a change in the governing party.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13We are in the fourth term here now
0:23:13 > 0:23:16and Labour has led the Government every time.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18We need the possibility of a change in Government
0:23:18 > 0:23:20if people are going to start
0:23:20 > 0:23:23to buy into the drama that takes place here.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Do you miss this place? Would you like to be back here,
0:23:26 > 0:23:29shouting across the Chamber to Carwyn Jones?
0:23:29 > 0:23:35No. I've learnt in my present job not to shout as much as I used to.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37I am older and wiser now.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40There are times when you feel you would like to be here
0:23:40 > 0:23:43in order to put forward new ideas.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45There's so much potential for that in Wales
0:23:45 > 0:23:50and that is the challenge for every party, to improve that.
0:23:50 > 0:23:54Thank you very much to all three of you. That is all for tonight.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57There won't be a programme next week,
0:23:57 > 0:24:01but join us again on 5th June for another edition of CF99.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04Until then, enjoy the sunshine and good evening.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd