0:00:01 > 0:00:04Good evening and welcome to CF99 from Cardiff Bay.
0:00:04 > 0:00:06On tonight's programme:
0:00:06 > 0:00:09They collect bins, repair roads and schools and much more,
0:00:09 > 0:00:14but is it time to cut the number of councils in Wales?
0:00:14 > 0:00:17The world is changing and we need to be prepared
0:00:17 > 0:00:21to move with it and we need to be ready to lead that that change.
0:00:21 > 0:00:27And do council chambers adequately reflect our society?
0:00:27 > 0:00:33Joining me tonight are three experts on local government
0:00:33 > 0:00:37Assembly Member and former Wrexham Council leader, Aled Roberts.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41Labour Cabinet member from Cardiff Council, Huw Thomas
0:00:41 > 0:00:44and Ceredigion Council leader, Ellen ap Gwynn from Plaid Cymru.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46Welcome.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50It hasn't been a good year for local government leaders in Wales.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Tomorrow, at a summit in Cardiff
0:00:52 > 0:00:55they will have an opportunity to commiserate
0:00:55 > 0:00:58after months of cuts to services and criticism over pay rises.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02At the top of the agenda will be restructuring
0:01:02 > 0:01:05and cutting the number of councils.
0:01:05 > 0:01:07One academic has told CF99
0:01:07 > 0:01:11that it would be a mistake to make drastic changes.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13Here's Aled ap Dafydd.
0:01:13 > 0:01:21This is the Llanofer building that opened opened in 2012.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25One school servicing four local authorities.
0:01:25 > 0:01:30For six years, pupils from Torfaen, Newport, Monmouth
0:01:30 > 0:01:34and Blaenau Gwent all receive their education Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw.
0:01:34 > 0:01:38The headteacher, Ellis Griffiths, has seen almost £15m
0:01:38 > 0:01:41spent on this school in the last year.
0:01:41 > 0:01:48It was extended to include a new building and new equipment.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52I think it is important the local authorities co-operate
0:01:52 > 0:01:56in order to create facilities of this standard.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00We need investment and we also need co-operation
0:02:00 > 0:02:04with scarce resources so I think this is the way forward.
0:02:04 > 0:02:09I think the smaller local authorities have suffered
0:02:09 > 0:02:12in terms of investment in the past.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16The way forward is for them to work together with other authorities.
0:02:16 > 0:02:20In 2006, the Beecham report said more co-operation
0:02:20 > 0:02:25was needed between local authorities in Wales.
0:02:25 > 0:02:30The warning was if that hadn't happened by 2011
0:02:30 > 0:02:34then the number of local authorities should be cut.
0:02:34 > 0:02:38Two years after that deadline, the question is whether
0:02:38 > 0:02:42that message has reached council chambers across Wales?
0:02:42 > 0:02:48Professor Steve Martin took out the research work for the report.
0:02:48 > 0:02:53He warns against any far-reaching changes.
0:02:53 > 0:02:58I would be in favour of looking at some of the smallest authorities
0:02:58 > 0:03:02to see whether if we can amalgamate them with larger authorities.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06But I would be reticent over a wholesale reorganisation
0:03:06 > 0:03:09of local government for two reasons.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12It is impossible to get the optimum size
0:03:12 > 0:03:15for a local council because it depends
0:03:15 > 0:03:17which service you are looking at.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20Some are best delivered by bigger authorities
0:03:20 > 0:03:23and some by small authorities and some in between.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27The process of reorganisation itself is a huge distraction.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30Running our local authorities is a challenging task
0:03:30 > 0:03:33in the economic climate.
0:03:33 > 0:03:37They spend £5.7 billion between them.
0:03:37 > 0:03:43In the last five years, there has been a cut of 8.4% in their budget.
0:03:43 > 0:03:48For some, local government is a world of gluttony.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50Too many executives on high wages.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54In Caerphilly, council workers were angry after the Chief Executive
0:03:54 > 0:03:58received a pay increase that was ruled illegal.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01£140 million needs to be saved,
0:04:01 > 0:04:06but some people are still receiving pay rises.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10The question is what is the service quality?
0:04:10 > 0:04:12What do people get for their money?
0:04:12 > 0:04:15What kind of services are they offering?
0:04:15 > 0:04:18That's the conversation that needs to be had on the streets
0:04:18 > 0:04:22rather than levels of pay.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25I think people care about what they receive
0:04:25 > 0:04:28in return from their council services.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32Tomorrow is the Wales Local Government meeting.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36Everyone will merge to unite.
0:04:36 > 0:04:41Many people will also know that a shake-up could mean empty seats.
0:04:41 > 0:04:47The axe is likely to fall, but who knows how..
0:04:47 > 0:04:50Aled ap Dafydd reporting.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53There is some kind of consensus that the shake-up
0:04:53 > 0:04:59that took place in the 1990s has not produced the ideal system.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03There is also a consensus that a shake-up at a time of cuts
0:05:03 > 0:05:06would be extremely difficult.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10The Government says the answer is co-operation,
0:05:10 > 0:05:14but is that happening? The Education Minister says it isn't.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18I know it is happening in Ceredigion.
0:05:18 > 0:05:23We have two schemes in place where we are working closely
0:05:23 > 0:05:27with Powys Council on food waste for instance.
0:05:27 > 0:05:33We have the Quick scheme which means that we are sharing officials
0:05:33 > 0:05:35when it comes to building work.
0:05:35 > 0:05:39It's important because it keeps these professional jobs in the area
0:05:39 > 0:05:42and I think when we talk about a shake-up
0:05:42 > 0:05:45that we need to remember that we are talking
0:05:45 > 0:05:49about a massive geographical area in the centre of Wales
0:05:49 > 0:05:57that is in danger of being forgotten unless we are careful
0:05:57 > 0:06:03We will come to boundaries and constituencies in a moment.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07In terms of co-operation especially in education,
0:06:07 > 0:06:11it seems the minister is feeling very frustrated.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15He's saying the consortium isn't working
0:06:15 > 0:06:17and some are worse than others.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20It appears that he is feeling that way.
0:06:20 > 0:06:25I'm happy that it is working in my area.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28It has in terms of the consortium.
0:06:28 > 0:06:32In the South East, we formed three hubs.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34Ceredigion and Powys are co-operating
0:06:34 > 0:06:37with Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire
0:06:37 > 0:06:40and Swansea and Neath Port Talbot are co-operating
0:06:40 > 0:06:44and we are improving education through that consortium.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47It is in terms of the improvement in standards,
0:06:47 > 0:06:50that's what we think is really important.
0:06:50 > 0:06:55It is important that that we provide good education.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58What has gone wrong with these consortia?
0:06:58 > 0:07:02I was listening to the question session here earlier this week.
0:07:02 > 0:07:08Leighton Andrews said that he's lost patience with this consortia.
0:07:08 > 0:07:13He said that he had lost his patience. What has happened?
0:07:13 > 0:07:17I don't feel as though the Government leadership
0:07:17 > 0:07:20was strong enough in the first place.
0:07:20 > 0:07:25He decided it was possible for different models to be formed
0:07:25 > 0:07:28between the four consortia. And also as a result of that,
0:07:28 > 0:07:31there was no agreement between the different councils.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35I think the minister is frustrated
0:07:35 > 0:07:40because certainly in North Wales,
0:07:40 > 0:07:44the consortia won't be ready by September.
0:07:44 > 0:07:48Does that mean that you as Assembly members
0:07:48 > 0:07:55will have to say, "This isn't an ideal time for a shake-up."
0:07:55 > 0:07:58There isn't an ideal time for a shake-up,
0:07:58 > 0:08:02but we have to do something about these small councils
0:08:02 > 0:08:04for example Merthyr Council.
0:08:04 > 0:08:09A commission has been formed by the First Minister
0:08:09 > 0:08:15and we need to wait and see what that cross party commission decides.
0:08:15 > 0:08:19I also think that we have a tendency in Wales
0:08:19 > 0:08:23to always restructure things rather than to get to grips
0:08:23 > 0:08:27with problems concerning the quality of services
0:08:27 > 0:08:31rather than just the infrastructure.
0:08:31 > 0:08:35Huw Thomas, you are part of one of the largest councils in Wales
0:08:35 > 0:08:38in terms of the number of people it services.
0:08:38 > 0:08:44When you look at councils like Merthyr with 60,000 people,
0:08:44 > 0:08:48there aren't many more living in Blaenau Gwent.
0:08:48 > 0:08:52Do you see such councils as rather small?
0:08:52 > 0:08:57We don't have time to focus on other councils, Vaughan!
0:08:57 > 0:09:01There is a problem in terms of the different sizes
0:09:01 > 0:09:02of councils in Wales.
0:09:02 > 0:09:07I think we have to look at the way of restructuring this,
0:09:07 > 0:09:11but that is a long-term process.
0:09:11 > 0:09:16We are currently facing an economic crisis today
0:09:16 > 0:09:20and so what is the best way for us to co-operate strategically
0:09:20 > 0:09:24in order to make savings that protects core services
0:09:24 > 0:09:29but make efficient savings?
0:09:29 > 0:09:34Let's now discuss what we heard from Lesley Griffiths
0:09:34 > 0:09:38on Newyddion Naw just half an hour ago.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41She said quite frankly we have protected
0:09:41 > 0:09:45local Government budgets in the past but from now on,
0:09:45 > 0:09:50we just can't do so. You will be facing the kind of cuts
0:09:50 > 0:09:52that councils in England have faced.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55Will that force councils to co-operate?
0:09:55 > 0:09:58I think it will.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02I think there is more co-operation between councils now
0:10:02 > 0:10:05especially in the South East.
0:10:05 > 0:10:10They tend to be Labour councils but they tend to work together
0:10:10 > 0:10:14because they acknowledge the economic reality.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18I think it's inevitable, but I think we will see in the summit tomorrow
0:10:18 > 0:10:21that Welsh councils will be ready to co-operate,
0:10:21 > 0:10:25acknowledging that's the better way to go.
0:10:25 > 0:10:26Ellen ap Gwynn,
0:10:26 > 0:10:32do you think there will be some kind of benefit as a result
0:10:32 > 0:10:36of these changes, however painful they might be?
0:10:36 > 0:10:41Do you think all the arguments will disappear?
0:10:41 > 0:10:46I hope so.
0:10:46 > 0:10:51Facing such a challenge is also a great opportunity.
0:10:51 > 0:10:56We have to look again at how we provide our service.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00We don't necessarily need to restructure councils
0:11:00 > 0:11:05but we need to look at the way we deliver services.
0:11:05 > 0:11:07As Dyfed said earlier,
0:11:07 > 0:11:10people want to know when their bins will be collected,
0:11:10 > 0:11:12where their children will go to school
0:11:12 > 0:11:16and whether family members will receive social services.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18That's what people care about.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20Those services are expensive
0:11:20 > 0:11:22and they take up around 75% of our budgets -
0:11:22 > 0:11:26education and social services.
0:11:27 > 0:11:32If those services are protected within the budget
0:11:32 > 0:11:36the minister gives us, that means we are given less and less
0:11:36 > 0:11:40to deliver the other services such as refuse collection,
0:11:40 > 0:11:44the road maintenance and so on.
0:11:46 > 0:11:49And Huw's portfolio in Cardiff.
0:11:49 > 0:11:51Huw, are you expecting the axe
0:11:51 > 0:11:56as a result of the exact factors Ellen is talking about?
0:11:56 > 0:12:01You have to spend on these services, and your portfolio,
0:12:01 > 0:12:05the ministry for fun as it were, will see cuts?
0:12:05 > 0:12:07I have to be honest.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10I am worried about the future.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13Of course, it is important to make the argument,
0:12:13 > 0:12:17how do theatres, leisure centres make an economic contribution
0:12:17 > 0:12:19to towns and cities.
0:12:19 > 0:12:23How do they contribute to the health agenda, for instance?
0:12:23 > 0:12:27So those services make a huge contribution to society
0:12:27 > 0:12:31that aren't reflected in the bottom line council budgets.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36But the problem is, people see the Millennium Centre behind you
0:12:36 > 0:12:39and I'm sure that the Millennium Centre brings in
0:12:39 > 0:12:43millions of pounds worth of business into Cardiff every year.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46But if you present the electorate with a choice between
0:12:46 > 0:12:49carrying on giving money to the arts,
0:12:49 > 0:12:53but cutting back on the amount of help your mother receives,
0:12:53 > 0:12:59everyone would go with the core services at the end of the day?
0:12:59 > 0:13:03I'm sure that's a factor and in our last budget in Cardiff,
0:13:03 > 0:13:06that is the decision we took.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11We decided to protect social services and education
0:13:11 > 0:13:14and actually increase their budgets.
0:13:14 > 0:13:16But there were cuts to leisure and sports budgets
0:13:16 > 0:13:20and for those areas which weren't protected.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23So what we have to do is co-operate
0:13:23 > 0:13:27and look at other ways of delivering services.
0:13:27 > 0:13:29I will put all three of you on the spot
0:13:29 > 0:13:31to end this discussion.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34If you were starting again and there were no restructuring costs,
0:13:34 > 0:13:36if you could draw the map from anew,
0:13:36 > 0:13:39how many local councils would you have in Wales?
0:13:39 > 0:13:43We have 22, what's the ideal number?
0:13:43 > 0:13:46- I think between five and seven. - Five to seven. Huw.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50Certainly less than ten. I would imagine about eight.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54I wouldn't go back to that system because
0:13:54 > 0:13:57Ceredigion really suffered under Dyfed.
0:13:57 > 0:13:59There wasn't any investment at all.
0:13:59 > 0:14:01We don't want to see those large councils again.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04I would go back to the old system.
0:14:04 > 0:14:08Not even 13, but somewhere around that.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11The pattern would be different but around 14-15, I would say.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13Very interesting. Thank you.
0:14:13 > 0:14:15We'll come back to you in a moment.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18Next - We've got two here tonight but what comes to mind
0:14:18 > 0:14:21when one thinks of a councillor?
0:14:21 > 0:14:25A woman like Ellen or a young man like Huw? Unlikely.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28Recently Local Government Minister Lesley Griffiths
0:14:28 > 0:14:31said that we needed more variety in our chambers
0:14:31 > 0:14:35and had to encourage more women and individuals from ethnic minorities
0:14:35 > 0:14:38to stand as county and community councillors.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41But what's the situation at the moment?
0:14:41 > 0:14:44Steffan Messenger has been crunching the numbers.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58There are more than 9,000 county and community councillors in Wales.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01Some of them will come here tomorrow to the City Hall
0:15:01 > 0:15:05for the annual summit of the Welsh Local Government Association.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12Recently a question has arisen over
0:15:12 > 0:15:15whether our councils reflect society.
0:15:15 > 0:15:16Is there enough variation?
0:15:16 > 0:15:20Or is it too easy to guess the profile of Welsh councillors?
0:15:22 > 0:15:25According to Welsh Government statistics published recently,
0:15:25 > 0:15:28the majority of Welsh councillors are over 60.
0:15:28 > 0:15:3357% of county council and 61% of community councillors.
0:15:33 > 0:15:3699.4% of councillors are white
0:15:36 > 0:15:39and just 32% are women.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44Last month, the Local Government Minister, Lesley Griffiths,
0:15:44 > 0:15:46said that things had to change.
0:15:46 > 0:15:50She has set up a special group to look at how to open up
0:15:50 > 0:15:54council chambers to reflect the community they represent.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58There are two ways you can do this.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01I think the way the minister has done it is
0:16:01 > 0:16:05by reaching for the plasters to try and cover the cracks.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07That's that they're going to do now.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10But I think what we need to do in my opinion,
0:16:10 > 0:16:13is to get to grips with the core problem
0:16:13 > 0:16:17which is the fact that local government structure in Wales
0:16:17 > 0:16:19is all wrong. Everyone knows that.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22But they are unwilling to get to grips with it.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25The voting process needs to be tackled.
0:16:25 > 0:16:293,000 county and community councillors were interviewed
0:16:29 > 0:16:31for the Government's recent figures.
0:16:31 > 0:16:3683% said they had previously been councillors.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39That might be a sign that new blood is rare.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43As one of the youngest councillors at Gwynedd Council,
0:16:43 > 0:16:45Mair Rowlands is aware that she is in the majority.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48I think people have a certain image in their heads
0:16:48 > 0:16:50of what local authorities are like
0:16:50 > 0:16:54and have never thought about standing.
0:16:55 > 0:17:00Once you support them and if they do take part in their community
0:17:00 > 0:17:03and are enthusiastic such as young mothers
0:17:03 > 0:17:06or somebody who has had a successful career
0:17:06 > 0:17:08in a specialised, area, it is important to encourage them,
0:17:08 > 0:17:13but there is a stigma surrounding local government.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15The hope now is to smash that stigma
0:17:15 > 0:17:19to make sure our councils have different characters.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24That was Steffan on the streets of Cardiff.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27Some of the figures are quite frightening, aren't they?
0:17:27 > 0:17:30Yes, and unless councils change their structure
0:17:30 > 0:17:33in terms of council meetings and so on,
0:17:33 > 0:17:36then it is hard to see it changing.
0:17:36 > 0:17:38Is it the councils or the parties?
0:17:38 > 0:17:41I think the main problem is the council.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44It is possible for parties to look at targets
0:17:44 > 0:17:48in terms of women and ethnic minority candidates.
0:17:48 > 0:17:54But I think we can attract more people in
0:17:54 > 0:17:58but once they're in and they see the way the councils work,
0:17:58 > 0:18:02I think it is difficult to see how they would carry on to be honest.
0:18:02 > 0:18:07Huw, your group on Cardiff Council is full of new councillors.
0:18:07 > 0:18:13- You had about 13 before the election, and now you have...- 46.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16What is the representation in your group?
0:18:16 > 0:18:19I didn't recognise that bulletin, to be honest
0:18:19 > 0:18:24because it is quite a mixed group, to be honest.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28We've clearly got Heather Joyce as leader
0:18:28 > 0:18:32and the only other female leader is Ellen ap Gwynn here.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35We have three aged under 32 on the cabinet.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38We have several young members
0:18:38 > 0:18:41and over a third are female so it is not a perfect balance.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44We have some from ethnic backgrounds as well.
0:18:44 > 0:18:46Not the perfect balance but it's certainly better
0:18:46 > 0:18:48than what was described there.
0:18:48 > 0:18:49Did that happen naturally?
0:18:49 > 0:18:55Is that because Cardiff is a multi-cultural and a mixed city
0:18:55 > 0:18:58or did the party go out of their way to make sure that happened?
0:18:58 > 0:19:04One thing we had was, all our target seats had a woman on the shortlist.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09Because Cardiff has three seat wards?
0:19:09 > 0:19:15Exactly, but apart from that it was a natural process
0:19:15 > 0:19:18and there was plenty of competition for places.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22But that is just the talent of the Labour Party in Cardiff.
0:19:22 > 0:19:25That was a party political broadcast!
0:19:26 > 0:19:30How about in Ceredigion, Ellen ap Gwynn?
0:19:30 > 0:19:33I remember years ago I attended a meeting
0:19:33 > 0:19:36and I think it was full of farmers.
0:19:36 > 0:19:38That has changed. That has changed.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42As a result we have changed matters at the council.
0:19:42 > 0:19:47But saying that, I've already had this chat with the minister,
0:19:47 > 0:19:51I actually went out of my way to attract more
0:19:51 > 0:19:56and more women to stand before the last election.
0:19:56 > 0:20:00And I found it extremely difficult to persuade them to stand.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03- Why?- Mainly because they were working.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07They have children and they have family commitments
0:20:07 > 0:20:11and in a rural area, it can take me three-quarters of an hour
0:20:11 > 0:20:15to go from my house to the head office where we meet.
0:20:15 > 0:20:19If the county is going to grow up to Carmarthen,
0:20:19 > 0:20:22an hour-and-a-half away,
0:20:22 > 0:20:25that is going to mean even fewer people standing.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30It is difficult enough to persuade people to stand now.
0:20:30 > 0:20:34We have six out of 42 members in Ceredigion who are female.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37One is with me on the Cabinet.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40We have got young blood on the Cabinet as well.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43So there is a variety of ages.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46We have got more young people coming in after the last election,
0:20:46 > 0:20:49but we don't have enough women.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51That's not for the want of trying.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54It's easier to get them in the community.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57I think jobs are very relevant
0:20:57 > 0:20:59because I see it all the time.
0:20:59 > 0:21:04The fact that councillors work part-time as well as council duties,
0:21:04 > 0:21:08is often used as a political weapon.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10We need to look at that.
0:21:10 > 0:21:14I think we need to accept the fact that people
0:21:14 > 0:21:17aren't prepared to put their careers on hold as it was
0:21:17 > 0:21:19in order to become councillors.
0:21:19 > 0:21:23That's very difficult, and as a father with children,
0:21:23 > 0:21:27unless your partner is eager for you to take on that work,
0:21:27 > 0:21:30it is very difficult.
0:21:30 > 0:21:34Aled Roberts, we are both old enough to remember
0:21:34 > 0:21:36when councillors worked for free.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40Some people thought if councillors were paid,
0:21:40 > 0:21:44a fair wage, that would free people up.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47But the responsibilities that councillors have
0:21:47 > 0:21:51are much heavier now than when I started 25 years ago.
0:21:51 > 0:21:55It used to be four meetings a month.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58If you're talking about a leader
0:21:58 > 0:22:01or a cabinet portfolios within any council,
0:22:01 > 0:22:05you need to work at least part-time as a councillor
0:22:05 > 0:22:09and as a council leader it is hard not take it on as a full-time job.
0:22:11 > 0:22:15So what kind of move has to be made to improve the situation?
0:22:16 > 0:22:21Is there a magic bullet solution or is Local Government
0:22:21 > 0:22:25just a reflection of where power lies in our society?
0:22:27 > 0:22:31I think we need our structures to be more flexible
0:22:31 > 0:22:35and we shouldn't think of people who are over 60
0:22:35 > 0:22:38to be in charge of everything.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42And to some extent power still lies with white males over 60.
0:22:44 > 0:22:46And that goes for women too.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50What is your magic bullet solution?
0:22:50 > 0:22:53- Sorry?- One thing to change the situation?
0:22:53 > 0:22:56We need to attract more women and persuade them
0:22:56 > 0:22:58that they can do the work.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01I think there is a problem to do with lack of confidence.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03They think they can't do it.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06They are willing to stand on the community councils,
0:23:06 > 0:23:08but it is a different matter.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11Once they try it out and gain experience they are fine,
0:23:11 > 0:23:13and they are excellent,
0:23:13 > 0:23:15but it is persuading them in the first place
0:23:15 > 0:23:18and we need to raise confidence.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20And what do you think?
0:23:20 > 0:23:23We need to get the parties to speak to people so that
0:23:23 > 0:23:26people realise that councillors are normal people too.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29Thank you all. That's it for tonight.
0:23:29 > 0:23:34We will be back at 9.30pm next Wednesday.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36I hope you will join me then.
0:23:36 > 0:23:40There is more political chat on O'r Bae on Radio Cymru
0:23:40 > 0:23:43at 2.00pm on Friday. Good evening.