:00:23. > :00:26.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics on Friday.
:00:26. > :00:30.We've had the hearsay and the gossip, now we have the documentary
:00:30. > :00:33.evidence - the project to replace Tony with Gordon.
:00:33. > :00:38.Can the Government's work programme get a million unemployed people
:00:38. > :00:41.back to work? We'll be asking the Employment Minister.
:00:41. > :00:43.And figures record a huge increase in crime in the Palace of
:00:43. > :00:53.Westminster - the mystery of the missing iPads, golf clubs and
:00:53. > :00:54.
:00:54. > :00:56.And with me for today are the political editor of The Spectator,
:00:56. > :01:02.James Forsyth, and chief political commentator of The Independent,
:01:02. > :01:07.Steve Richards. Now, I'm taking delivery of a new
:01:08. > :01:10.car today - a Volvo. But I read this morning that "Project Volvo"
:01:11. > :01:15.was the codename of a Gordon Brown rebranding exercise, part of the
:01:15. > :01:19.push to replace Tony Blair as Prime Minister. Umm...I might be
:01:19. > :01:22.regretting my choice of car. The Daily Telegraph has published a
:01:22. > :01:24.dossier of memos, apparently belonging to the current Shadow
:01:24. > :01:30.Chancellor Ed Balls, detailing the moves against Tony Blair amongst
:01:30. > :01:33.Gordon Brown's allies. One document, dated 19th July 2005, just two
:01:33. > :01:36.months after the 2005 election when Ed Balls and Ed Miliband became MPs,
:01:36. > :01:43.appears to set out the structure for a Gordon Brown leadership
:01:43. > :01:48.challenge to Tony Blair. It mentions a "GB transition
:01:48. > :01:51.storyline" and a "first 100 days policy plan". A small group of
:01:51. > :01:56.attendees are mentioned, including Ed Balls, Ed Miliband and Douglas
:01:56. > :01:59.Alexander. Another strategy document for the campaign, heavily
:01:59. > :02:06.annotated by Ed Balls, is dated 21st July 2005 - the day of the
:02:06. > :02:09.failed terrorist attack on London's transport system. Issues that need
:02:09. > :02:14.to be addressed include "Who is GB?", "Lawyers - a list we can
:02:14. > :02:16.trust", and establishing a "handling plan" for supporters.
:02:17. > :02:21.Other memos exchanged between Tony Blair and Gordon Brown illustrate
:02:22. > :02:24.the animosity at the top of Labour. On a letter from Mr Blair
:02:24. > :02:30.discussing a possible transition deal, Mr Brown scribbled the words
:02:30. > :02:32."shallow", "inconsistent" and "muddled". In an interview last
:02:32. > :02:42.year, Ed Balls was asked about his conduct during the Blair
:02:42. > :02:42.
:02:42. > :02:46.premiership. Do you regret these years of
:02:46. > :02:51.plotting and scheming to undermine Mr Blair? The thing is, this is
:02:51. > :02:57.based upon gossip and rumour and anonymous briefings. If you had
:02:57. > :03:02.been in politics like me or David or dead, we always get this stuff.
:03:02. > :03:07.You did try to undermine Mr Blair. A untrue. You wanted him to go.
:03:07. > :03:12.thought it was right... You did your best for him to go. Himself
:03:12. > :03:19.had announced he would go. Don't tell me you didn't want him to go.
:03:19. > :03:21.The tis very easy for you, in a quite lazy way, to repeat this
:03:21. > :03:26.innuendo and gossip based on no substance about what people claim I
:03:26. > :03:31.have done. It is so near. That was Ed Balls talking to Andrew during
:03:31. > :03:38.the Labour leadership election. Joining us from Birmingham is Liam
:03:38. > :03:45.Byrne. Are you surprised to learn that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls were
:03:45. > :03:53.planning to replace Tony Blair with Gordon Brown as early as July 2005?
:03:53. > :03:57.I haven't looked at the Telegraph's story. Take it from the. 2005, very
:03:57. > :04:01.clearly, 19th July, there were documents, papers, working groups,
:04:01. > :04:09.a whole infrastructure set up to replace Tony Blair. I think a
:04:09. > :04:14.couple of things. Firstly, most importantly, this stuff appears to
:04:14. > :04:20.me to be some time in the past. The relationship between Tony and
:04:20. > :04:26.Gordon is pretty well catalogued now. From what I have made up from
:04:26. > :04:30.what you have said to me today, these documents are about
:04:30. > :04:37.discussions in Gordon's team that actually date from after when Tony
:04:37. > :04:40.have said he was stepping down. In that time when Gordon, as he did,
:04:40. > :04:45.aspire to lead the Labour Party, would have been thinking about the
:04:45. > :04:48.leadership contest after Tony had finally steps down. You are right,
:04:48. > :04:53.it is after the time he said he would step down, but he did say he
:04:53. > :04:56.wanted to serve a full term of office. If you look at the
:04:56. > :05:00.documents, and I have them here, we have lists of what people are going
:05:00. > :05:04.to do, and these people are now operating at the top of the Labour
:05:04. > :05:08.Party, including the leader. Do you think it was right that those
:05:08. > :05:13.people, so pays to be working within a government under Tony
:05:13. > :05:18.Blair, were devoting much of their time to trying to get Gordon Brown
:05:18. > :05:24.to be Prime Minister? From what you have described, you have a group of
:05:24. > :05:26.people talking about how Gordon would face up to a leadership
:05:26. > :05:30.contest in the late Bish - Labour Party in the time after Tony
:05:30. > :05:36.Blair... You think it was right that there was this infrastructure
:05:36. > :05:39.set up while Tony Blair was still serving, detailing his weaknesses,
:05:39. > :05:47.his failures as prime minister, people supposed to be working under
:05:47. > :05:50.him, they were trying to get Gordon fine? I think it is an honourable
:05:50. > :05:54.ambition to want to lead the Labour party and want to be a Labour Prime
:05:54. > :05:58.Minister. When you confront a situation in politics where the guy
:05:58. > :06:03.at the top has said he is stepping down, it is not very unnatural for
:06:03. > :06:08.people behind any particular camp to start thinking about how their
:06:08. > :06:13.guide is going to confront the leadership contest that could
:06:13. > :06:20.decide the future Labour leader and the future Labour Prime Minister.
:06:21. > :06:26.But this stuff is quite old now. Yes, it might be quite bold... --
:06:26. > :06:30.old. Most of the figures are still there. Ed Balls, Ed Miliband,
:06:30. > :06:34.Douglas Alexander, they are at the top of the current party, are you
:06:34. > :06:37.saying it doesn't have any implications at all? What I have
:06:37. > :06:43.learned about politics in my career in Westminster is that voters are
:06:43. > :06:47.more interested in the future than the machinations of the past.
:06:47. > :06:52.about the denials? Ed Balls has repeatedly denied being involved in
:06:52. > :06:58.any insurgency. Whichever way you look at it, it was an insurgency.
:06:58. > :07:04.Insurgency? Any project to replace penny Blair with Gordon Brown. Do
:07:04. > :07:07.you believe him? -- Tony Blair. you don't mind me saying,
:07:07. > :07:14.insurgency is rather a grand term for what looked like a group of
:07:14. > :07:17.friends coming together... Liam Byrne, you are making out this was
:07:17. > :07:21.some sort of school boy friendly group. We know it wasn't for more
:07:21. > :07:26.of the evidence given by both sides. Are you saying it is right that Ed
:07:26. > :07:30.Balls has denied being involved in any of that when his fingerprints
:07:30. > :07:35.are all over it? I just think you might be putting a bit of a class
:07:35. > :07:41.and a bit of an interpretation on what sounds like a number of
:07:41. > :07:45.documents that are minutes of meetings about how Gordon Brown it
:07:45. > :07:49.is going to go into a leadership contest for the leadership of the
:07:49. > :07:52.Labour Party. The ambition and the aspiration to lead the Labour Party
:07:52. > :07:55.and to want to be Labour prime minister and through that office
:07:55. > :07:59.and through the force of that office to change our country for
:07:59. > :08:03.the better is an honourable thing to want to do, surely. Did it work
:08:03. > :08:09.in your mind? Replacing Tony Blair with Gordon Brown? Was it a
:08:09. > :08:13.success? It is no secret that I was a strong supporter of Tony Blair,
:08:13. > :08:18.his kind of politics were my kind of politics, I think they are good
:08:18. > :08:23.politics, they have worked well for my constituency. But he came to his
:08:23. > :08:26.own decision to step down at the time needed. I remember at the time
:08:26. > :08:32.that I was sad about this because I thought he was a great prime
:08:32. > :08:34.minister, but I also worked closely with Gordon Brown, I thought he was
:08:34. > :08:37.a super prime minister and a superbly doer of our country at a
:08:37. > :08:45.time when we faced one of our maximum set of dangers in the
:08:45. > :08:49.recent past. -- Super leader. were disappointed that these
:08:49. > :08:54.documents have come to light? The implicate the Brownite so,
:08:54. > :09:00.particularly Ed Balls. Is this a bad thing for the Labour Party or
:09:00. > :09:05.not? Well, I don't know, autumn and the these other things voters judge.
:09:05. > :09:11.Voters will look at this kind of thing and think shock, horror,
:09:11. > :09:14.documents and minutes of meetings from five years ago. For most
:09:15. > :09:17.people, looking at the problems they have today a looking at the
:09:17. > :09:21.way the current government is leading an -- leading us in the
:09:22. > :09:26.wrong direction, most voters will not mind. You don't think it
:09:26. > :09:30.affects a Ed Balls's credibility? He is a superb Shadow Chancellor.
:09:30. > :09:34.The message he has set out over how George Osborne is cutting back too
:09:34. > :09:40.far and too fast, the way he is leading our recovery into the slow
:09:40. > :09:44.lane, at a time when unemployment is falling much faster... All right.
:09:44. > :09:49.Are you surprised about the paper trail? The fact that these papers
:09:49. > :09:54.were left on a desk in Ed Balls's department with political
:09:54. > :09:57.annotations all over them, setting up a replacement structure? He was
:09:57. > :10:00.supposed to be the education secretary at the time and this was
:10:00. > :10:06.what he was spending his time doing and then he left the papers all
:10:06. > :10:11.over his desk. With respect... would know all about that. I think
:10:11. > :10:15.we will have to wait and see what Gus O'Donnell. Ed Balls have -- has
:10:15. > :10:19.said they were found in his department. They were left in the
:10:19. > :10:22.desk in his office. I just think it may be a little bit early to second
:10:22. > :10:27.guess where these documents have come from and how they found their
:10:27. > :10:32.way into the newspapers. Where did they come from? Who leaked them?
:10:32. > :10:36.The interesting question is the people who benefit from this, the
:10:36. > :10:40.people who don't want Ed Balls to be leader of the Labour Party,
:10:40. > :10:46.those who don't like him. That leaves a certain list of candidates.
:10:46. > :10:51.Do we have any idea who that might be? They will be on the Blairite
:10:51. > :10:55.wing of the party, maybe recently arrived. Do you agree with that?
:10:55. > :11:00.Talking to Liam Byrne, who is trying to say these documents are
:11:00. > :11:05.historical and don't have much impact, that all it showed was a
:11:05. > :11:08.fairly natural plan to succeed Tony Blair, is that how you see it?
:11:08. > :11:12.are topical in the sense it is an operation to damage Ed Balls, and
:11:13. > :11:16.that is clearly what it is about, it is not an attempt to have a
:11:16. > :11:20.debate about the familiar story of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. That
:11:20. > :11:25.is the aim of the operation. Reading them and remembering the
:11:25. > :11:31.context of the time, 2005, 2006, when people knew Tony Blair was
:11:31. > :11:37.going to go, I think if you reverse this and say imagine if they were
:11:37. > :11:44.not planning for this, for urging him to go to give them space, given
:11:44. > :11:52.that we all knew they wanted him to take over, it would be absurd. I am
:11:52. > :11:57.genuinely not surprised... You are mentioned in one of the documents.
:11:57. > :12:00.Did you go to one of the meetings? No. This was about the image of
:12:00. > :12:07.Gordon Brown. It shows how precarious some of that planning
:12:07. > :12:11.was. I can unequivocally assure you are did not go to the meetings.
:12:11. > :12:18.Somebody said, I don't know whether you should be pleased or bewildered
:12:18. > :12:22.or alarmed. Journalistically, on this thing, I think they are quite
:12:22. > :12:26.interesting in revealing their thinking, the policy differences,
:12:26. > :12:30.which were quite profound and are still underestimated, and are still
:12:30. > :12:34.relevant as Ed Miliband tries to lead what is still quite a
:12:34. > :12:38.fractious, divided party. In that sense they are interesting and
:12:38. > :12:42.topical, but they are not surprising or shocking. They are
:12:42. > :12:47.not surprising, but do they not reinforce, James Forsyth, some
:12:47. > :12:51.people's perceptions of the divisions that existed on
:12:52. > :12:57.personality and policy? Blairites are bitter about Tony Blair being
:12:57. > :13:03.bundled out of the door. Gordon Brown, with indecent haste, moved
:13:03. > :13:07.him on. He was not allowed to go at the time of his own choosing. That
:13:07. > :13:11.is back. The other thing that is here is that Ed Balls was destroyed
:13:11. > :13:14.in the Labour leadership campaign and in some ways he was the most
:13:14. > :13:18.impressive candidate, but he did not get going because of his past
:13:18. > :13:22.and he will never be able to escape that past. It will come back again
:13:22. > :13:28.and again. Liam Byrne, do you think it was a mistake for Ed Balls to
:13:28. > :13:33.have been involved as closely as he was in any project to succeed Tony
:13:33. > :13:39.Blair on behalf of Gordon Brown? think Ed Balls had worked closely
:13:39. > :13:45.for many years with Gordon and I don't think it was dishonourable or
:13:45. > :13:49.surprising... Do you think it is bad for him now? Is this is seen as
:13:49. > :13:52.something that will discredit him, in the end should he not have
:13:52. > :13:56.stepped back further and not been so closely associated with what
:13:56. > :14:01.some people will interpret as a project to get rid of Tony Blair
:14:01. > :14:04.earlier than he wanted? I don't understand or accept the premise of
:14:04. > :14:08.that question. Ed Balls is focused on being Shadow Chancellor and
:14:08. > :14:13.taking the argument on the economy to George Osborne. Most voters will
:14:13. > :14:16.think that is the right way for him to spend his time. He might never
:14:16. > :14:20.become leader of the Labour Party. Ed Miliband is the leader of the
:14:20. > :14:23.Labour Party and under the policy review I am leading for him, we
:14:23. > :14:26.will put together a platform which will take us back into government
:14:26. > :14:34.and then Ed Miliband will be the next Labour prime minister. Thank
:14:34. > :14:38.And the Government's the work programme scheme begins today with
:14:38. > :14:42.ministers hoping to get 1 million people off benefits and back into
:14:42. > :14:45.work within the next two years. Chris Grayling was out and about
:14:45. > :14:48.this morning meeting people on a scheme in West London run by a
:14:48. > :14:52.private company, and it is mostly private companies that will operate
:14:52. > :14:56.the scheme. How much they are paid will depend on how many people they
:14:56. > :15:03.get back into work. There are concerns that the scheme will not
:15:03. > :15:07.tell people in the poorest parts of the country. Contractors have large
:15:07. > :15:11.geographical areas in which they can focus their attention. We are
:15:11. > :15:15.worried that in areas like Wales, where there are places with a
:15:15. > :15:18.strong economy like Cardiff, and weaker areas like Merthyr Tydfil,
:15:18. > :15:22.then the contractors will focus their efforts on Cardiff and give
:15:22. > :15:26.less attention to Merthyr Tydfil. That will be profitable for them
:15:26. > :15:30.but it will not help the people that are hardest to reach. Chris
:15:30. > :15:40.Grayling joins us now. How will it work in places where there will
:15:40. > :15:47.effectively be less jobs, such as outside the South East? I was not
:15:47. > :15:56.clear whether we would see a difference in those companies...
:15:56. > :16:01.you will not if they are profit- making. Would we have as many Big
:16:01. > :16:05.ears in the North of England, for example, and the answer was yes. --
:16:05. > :16:08.as many bidders. So I am very confident that we will get coverage
:16:08. > :16:12.everywhere and people will be referred everywhere and will get
:16:12. > :16:17.into work everywhere. The providers have to take and provide support
:16:17. > :16:21.for all of the people referred to them, regardless of where they live.
:16:21. > :16:24.But the success of the scheme, both in terms of the Government and
:16:24. > :16:29.getting back to work, is the economy growing and those jobs
:16:29. > :16:32.being created and it is a gamble. The Independent Office for Budget
:16:32. > :16:36.Responsibility is forecasting an increase in employment over the
:16:36. > :16:40.next four years of almost 1 million, even after you take into account
:16:40. > :16:44.the changes in the public sector. I want to make sure that we do not
:16:44. > :16:47.make the same mistakes that previous Government made, whereby
:16:47. > :16:53.most of the new jobs created when the economy was going well were
:16:53. > :16:56.going to migrant workers. Most of the people on benefits in this
:16:56. > :16:59.country stayed there and I don't want that to happen in the future.
:16:59. > :17:03.These jobs of the people on benefits. How can you guarantee
:17:04. > :17:10.those jobs will be spread, if not even the then relatively so across
:17:10. > :17:12.the country? -- if not evenly. We have seen a significant increase in
:17:12. > :17:16.the number of private sector jobs and that has been pretty evenly
:17:16. > :17:20.spread. There has been growth in Scotland, and Wales saw a
:17:20. > :17:23.significant improvement last month. There will be ups and downs
:17:23. > :17:27.throughout the recovery but we are trying through the regional growth
:17:27. > :17:29.fund to target support at the private sector in areas of the
:17:29. > :17:34.country where there are bigger and employment challenges and whether
:17:34. > :17:38.private sector is smaller precisely so that we see growth in the
:17:38. > :17:43.economy and in jobs. The select committee report noted that 88% of
:17:43. > :17:50.contracts were awarded to private firms. You have made a big deal
:17:50. > :17:53.about the voluntary sector. They will be a very small proportion.
:17:53. > :17:58.There are some very serious voluntary sector organisations.
:17:58. > :18:01.They may be very serious but the number is smaller than you said.
:18:01. > :18:07.always knew there would be few organisations in the voluntary
:18:07. > :18:11.sector because they cannot raise capital like the private sector.
:18:11. > :18:15.But one of the conditions was that they are assembled networks of
:18:15. > :18:22.organisations, private sector, public sector, voluntary
:18:22. > :18:26.organisations, small businesses, charities. We have one extreme, the
:18:26. > :18:30.Prince's Trust, right down to a community walled garden project in
:18:30. > :18:34.Yorkshire. So there is a lot of people involved in helping people
:18:34. > :18:38.get back to work. One of the concerns are about the safeguards
:18:38. > :18:41.preventing vulnerable people being pushed into in appropriate jobs.
:18:41. > :18:46.You can put people in jobs for a certain amount of time, but then
:18:46. > :18:51.they lose their jobs, the project stopped, and they are back on the
:18:51. > :18:55.dole. We think this approach is very new and has not been done
:18:55. > :19:00.anywhere else in the world. He does not just provide for people to get
:19:00. > :19:04.into employment, it pays them in instalments. For up to two years
:19:04. > :19:07.after they get into work, which makes sure that we have on-going
:19:07. > :19:12.support, mentoring, people watching over their shoulders so that they
:19:12. > :19:18.do not drop out of work. If you she won somebody in to a wrong job and
:19:19. > :19:22.they stay for a short time, the providers do not get paid. So how
:19:22. > :19:30.will the payment structure work? Will the safeguards be guaranteed
:19:30. > :19:34.by you? We have a group of organisations investing �500
:19:34. > :19:39.million. Begetters more upfront payment for the first three years
:19:39. > :19:44.and then that this appears. -- they get the small upfront payment. They
:19:44. > :19:49.only get payments when people have been put into the right vacancies.
:19:49. > :19:53.It is a giant Employment Service, matching the right people to the
:19:53. > :20:01.right jobs. That is how people will get money about this. He sounds
:20:01. > :20:05.very upbeat, but will it work, Steve? Can I ask a question? Your
:20:05. > :20:09.projection of the growth in employment vacancies, is that based
:20:09. > :20:13.on the revised growth figures all the more optimistic ones? That is
:20:13. > :20:17.the most recent figure that has come out. One thing I would say,
:20:17. > :20:20.Steve, every day of the week we have thousands of vacancies coming
:20:20. > :20:24.into JobCentre Plus. 1 million vacancies have passed through
:20:24. > :20:28.JobCentre Plus in the last three weeks, but there has been a growth
:20:28. > :20:33.in the long-term unemployed. We are really focusing this programme on
:20:33. > :20:37.them. They're always job vacancies, but we want to get the long-term
:20:37. > :20:40.unemployed into these jobs. I think the mechanism is fine and the
:20:40. > :20:47.principle is a good one. I agree with the implication of the first
:20:47. > :20:52.question, that growth is central. It is central to what the
:20:52. > :20:58.Government is trying to do. But the scheme could fail. It looks fine on
:20:58. > :21:03.paper, but it won't work, unless there is growth. And growth in
:21:03. > :21:10.every part of the UK. From the point of view of the taxpayer, we
:21:10. > :21:13.are only paying by results, when people are back into work. It is
:21:13. > :21:20.the belief that they can sort out the problem of long-term
:21:20. > :21:24.unemployment. If they cannot, they are the ones that lose out. You're
:21:24. > :21:30.talking about paying by results. The risk is pushed on to the
:21:30. > :21:34.private sector. What other areas of policy which you apply this model
:21:34. > :21:38.to? This is a real watershed for the way that Government words. We
:21:38. > :21:42.can look at this again, for example drug addiction, the Rehabilitation
:21:42. > :21:45.of offenders, working with problem families to overcome the hurdles
:21:45. > :21:49.that they face. There are obvious areas where the Government can do
:21:49. > :21:52.much more. I hope that having got the work programme up and running
:21:52. > :21:57.we can provide a precedent that changes the way the Government
:21:57. > :22:01.works in many areas. Why do you think that the private providers
:22:01. > :22:07.will be better than state providers in this case? The Government has
:22:07. > :22:10.often tried to design programs itself, the New Deal was designed
:22:10. > :22:14.in Whitehall, 13 weeks in a classroom. We are saying that we
:22:14. > :22:22.don't know best. You are the professionals. You design what
:22:22. > :22:25.works, you develop specialist support, and we will pay you went
:22:25. > :22:32.you are successful and we will trust you to do the right thing. If
:22:32. > :22:36.you don't, you are the ones losing money. At focuses the industry on
:22:36. > :22:40.providing real best practice. They will chase what is most successful.
:22:40. > :22:49.Thank you. Time to catch up the big political
:22:49. > :22:53.stories of the last few days. The Judgment from a higher place this
:22:53. > :22:57.week as the Archbishop of Canterbury slammed David Cameron's
:22:57. > :23:05.big society as painfully stale. David Cameron hopes that is new and
:23:05. > :23:09.improved plans for the NHS will calm down the critics. He has
:23:09. > :23:14.announced significant changes. will ensure that the competition
:23:14. > :23:17.benefits patients. Is that a U-turn or the sound of the screeching
:23:17. > :23:21.tyres from the Justice Secretary? Ken Clarke has backed down on
:23:21. > :23:25.controversial plans to halve the sentence for rapists if they admit
:23:25. > :23:34.their guilt early on. The PM insisted there is plenty of fuel in
:23:34. > :23:37.the tank of Ken Clarke. A new Mini purred down Downing Street as BMW
:23:37. > :23:41.announced �500 million in UK car production. If you are looking for
:23:41. > :23:46.a new vehicle, it might be better than a Volvo. The description of
:23:46. > :23:53.Gordon Brown's image as papers reveal his plan to unseat Tony
:23:53. > :23:57.Blair. But two had their hands on the steering wheel of that
:23:57. > :24:01.manoeuvre? -- who? We have already discussed that. You
:24:01. > :24:05.cannot trust anyone these days. There have been a spate of thefts
:24:05. > :24:10.in Parliament, not just from Ed Balls's desk. Keith Vaz, himself
:24:10. > :24:14.the victim, received a written response from John Thurso, listing
:24:14. > :24:19.some of the items that have been stolen. They include laptops,
:24:19. > :24:24.mobile phones and iPad. But also some unusual items, including a set
:24:24. > :24:30.of golf clubs, a candlestick, an orchid and the cable drum. This
:24:30. > :24:34.sounds like Cluedo. Keith Vaz joins us now. Are you surprised? I am
:24:34. > :24:41.astonished by the number of deaths that we have had in the last few
:24:41. > :24:46.years, but particularly by the number of thefts we have had since
:24:46. > :24:51.January this year, 25 laptops having been stolen. And the number
:24:51. > :24:54.that was stolen in May of this year, the month of very high security
:24:54. > :24:59.because the President of the United States was visiting the House of
:24:59. > :25:04.Commons. This is a large number of thefts and very few people have
:25:04. > :25:08.been arrested the according to the information that I received in my
:25:08. > :25:13.parliamentary question. Nobody has been prosecuted this year. What
:25:13. > :25:17.prompted this was the fact that my research assistant's laptop and my
:25:17. > :25:20.iPad were taken from my office. I asked whether it happened to anyone
:25:20. > :25:25.else and part of the problem is people did not know to reported.
:25:26. > :25:28.You wonder if it is going on and people are not reporting it.
:25:28. > :25:33.this was a street in my constituency, such as the one I
:25:33. > :25:37.have just visited, I would be saying that this was a very serious
:25:37. > :25:42.crime area. I would be calling a residents' meeting demanding CCTV
:25:42. > :25:47.cameras. And I would probably set up the Neighbourhood Watch. I have
:25:47. > :25:52.not ruled out doing this. Are you saying that crime is worth in the
:25:52. > :25:59.Houses of Parliament and in your constituency? -- worse. It may well
:25:59. > :26:04.be! 25 laptops stolen in six months, it probably is. Our people nervous?
:26:04. > :26:09.We are all very shocked. People have been cleared for security. It
:26:09. > :26:12.is a big process. Your form is very long, you know how long it is. It
:26:12. > :26:17.takes a while to be security cleared and you have to be a
:26:17. > :26:20.certain type of person to get the pass to get in. We have also had a
:26:20. > :26:25.reduction in the number of House of Commons staff. In the building that
:26:25. > :26:31.I am in, of Scotland Yard ironically enough, they used to be
:26:31. > :26:39.someone at reception, and that person has been removed. We have
:26:39. > :26:43.had increased patrols in Norman Shaw North. But the week that there
:26:43. > :26:50.is a new national crime agency announced, in Parliament itself we
:26:50. > :26:53.have a major crime problem. cannot blame that! Are you saying
:26:53. > :26:59.they should be more protection for property in the Houses of
:26:59. > :27:02.Parliament? There ought to be much more rigorous and robust
:27:02. > :27:08.surveillance of what is going on. I think it is a good idea to have
:27:08. > :27:13.CCTV as you enter. We would like to see somebody prosecuted. So many
:27:13. > :27:17.laptops, so many pieces of equipment in six months. We need
:27:17. > :27:21.our best detectives on this. I know that Mr Yates is busy doing other
:27:21. > :27:24.things. Rather than coming in and arresting MPs as they have done in
:27:24. > :27:30.the past, they should spend their time looking for these criminals.
:27:30. > :27:36.Is that to good use of resources? A bottle of whisky has gone, a set of
:27:36. > :27:39.chairs, a pair of shoes. They have probably just been mislaid. It is
:27:40. > :27:43.an eclectic collection of stuff that has gone missing. It is
:27:43. > :27:49.bizarre. You can only get into the House of Commons by swiping your
:27:49. > :27:53.pass. Everybody in their house that pass. As Keith Vaz said, they have
:27:53. > :27:59.been security cleared. It is odd that they cannot find the culprits
:27:59. > :28:05.when their past he's on the doors and you know who is in the building
:28:05. > :28:11.at what time. It is like a mysterious crime thriller, or
:28:11. > :28:15.comedy perhaps. I do not know what it signified. Something incidental,
:28:15. > :28:19.or something significant. I am baffled by it. I always lose my
:28:19. > :28:23.security pass and find it hard to get anywhere they think the
:28:23. > :28:28.security is very tight. I am amazed that this is going on without any
:28:28. > :28:33.resolution, frankly. The security is tight. Do you think some of this
:28:33. > :28:38.stuff has just been mislaid by busy MPs and their staff? I don't think
:28:38. > :28:44.so. Busy MPs do mislay things but it is difficult in his late 25
:28:44. > :28:49.laptop computers in six months. grasped that. -- difficult to