:00:23. > :00:26.Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. European finance
:00:26. > :00:33.ministers meeting in Luxembourg have agreed in principle to provide
:00:33. > :00:36.Greece with emergency funding of �10 billion. But they say it's
:00:36. > :00:42.dependent on the Greek parliament approving a new round of austerity
:00:42. > :00:45.measures. We'll be asking, are they just throwing good money after bad?
:00:45. > :00:51.Ministers are to stick to their timetable for changing the state
:00:51. > :00:54.pension age despite being urged to think again by backbench MPs.
:00:54. > :00:58.Are free schools all the rage? The Government hopes so! It says more
:00:58. > :01:03.than 100 of them will open next year run by parents, teachers and
:01:03. > :01:05.charities. And gone but in no way forgotten.
:01:05. > :01:15.We'll be discussing the legacy of the anti-war campaigner Brian Haw,
:01:15. > :01:17.
:01:17. > :01:20.All that in the next half hour. And with us for the whole programme
:01:20. > :01:23.today is the former deputy headteacher who was forced to
:01:23. > :01:31.resign from her job following a speech she made to the Conservative
:01:31. > :01:33.Party conference, Katharine Birbalsingh. Welcome back. First
:01:33. > :01:36.this morning, let's talk about pensions because MPs unhappy at the
:01:36. > :01:40.Government's plans to raise the retirement age for men and women to
:01:40. > :01:49.66 by 2020 will get a chance to voice their opposition when the
:01:49. > :01:52.Commons debates the Pensions Bill today. Critics say the move is
:01:52. > :01:58.unfair on around 330,000 women who will be forced to work for two
:01:58. > :02:01.years longer than they expected. But ministers are, so far, sticking
:02:01. > :02:11.to their timetable. Our correspondent Jo Coburn can tell us
:02:11. > :02:12.
:02:12. > :02:17.more. We are talking about quite a bit of opposition. Yes, cross-party
:02:17. > :02:23.opposition. Not many Tory MPs, 61 signatures for an early day motion
:02:23. > :02:27.to force a debate on this issue. A significant number of Lib Dem and
:02:27. > :02:31.Labour MPs who are leading this campaign are saying remitted --
:02:31. > :02:35.women will be targeted unfairly because of the equalisation of the
:02:35. > :02:41.state pension age for men and women. They have already agreed to
:02:41. > :02:44.increase the state pension age to 66 by 2020, but in order that men
:02:44. > :02:49.and women will be able to get to that stage at the same time, they
:02:49. > :02:54.will have to increase the rate for women and there will be a certain
:02:54. > :03:00.group of women who will not be able to claim their pension until 65 by
:03:00. > :03:05.2018 and they will be unfairly poor. I heard that Iain Duncan Smith
:03:05. > :03:10.himself has expressed reservations to George Osborne. In view of the
:03:10. > :03:14.fact that even the welfare Tsar is uncomfortable, how long can they
:03:14. > :03:18.stick to that possession -- position? Iain Duncan Smith will be
:03:18. > :03:24.uncomfortable, they will be uncomfortable that the idea that
:03:24. > :03:28.women might be unfairly targeted. What we don't have is the exact
:03:28. > :03:32.figure, how much money would have to be thrown at this in order to
:03:32. > :03:36.subsidise and pay the women they might lose out over those 18 months.
:03:36. > :03:39.But some of the figures have been something like �3 billion. The
:03:39. > :03:43.Treasury would have to come up with that and at the moment I don't get
:03:43. > :03:48.the sense they are keen to do so. That doesn't mean they have closed
:03:48. > :03:50.the door on this, but the issue will be raised this afternoon and
:03:50. > :03:56.it will be interesting to see whether they give any indication
:03:56. > :04:00.that in a few years they might tried to find the money. Thank you.
:04:00. > :04:08.Looking forward to working until 66? I have to say I do love
:04:08. > :04:12.teaching. I would happily teach forever. 66 might be too early!
:04:12. > :04:17.Indeed, it would be for me. But I realise that is not necessarily the
:04:17. > :04:26.normal response from people. Clearly it is a concern. People
:04:26. > :04:31.having to work longer. But at the same time, our population... We
:04:31. > :04:35.can't have it all. We have to live within our means. People are living
:04:35. > :04:40.longer. I was about to say unfortunately, it is not
:04:40. > :04:43.unfortunate, but there are consequences. His there anybody in
:04:43. > :04:49.the teaching profession in the state schools, you have got to
:04:49. > :04:57.retire at the retirement age? you can continue working longer if
:04:57. > :05:01.you want. In teaching it is always said that the longer you wait to
:05:01. > :05:06.retire, the more likely you want to die earlier. It is such a stressful
:05:06. > :05:16.job and it takes so much out of you that when you stop suddenly, you
:05:16. > :05:19.
:05:19. > :05:21.are in a bit of shock. Treadmill. Yes, you have to go on forever.
:05:21. > :05:24.The Greek debt crisis and the austerity measures that the
:05:24. > :05:27.government is trying to implement make the situation in Britain look
:05:27. > :05:30.like a walk in the park. The government in Athens says it will
:05:30. > :05:33.run out of funds within weeks unless it receives the next tranche
:05:33. > :05:35.of money from the bailout agreed last year. EU finance ministers
:05:35. > :05:38.meeting in Luxembourg have postponed a final decision until
:05:38. > :05:41.the Greek parliament agrees a new round of spending cuts. But they
:05:41. > :05:47.will also need to negotiate a second bailout to prevent a default
:05:47. > :05:50.further down the line. Not everyone, though, is happy about more public
:05:50. > :05:54.money being committed. Anita has more.
:05:54. > :05:57.Are we just days away from a Greek tragedy? Last year, economic
:05:57. > :06:03.collapse was averted by a 110 billion euro bailout from the EU
:06:03. > :06:07.and the IMF. The Greek government, led by George Papandreou, promised
:06:07. > :06:11.to implement tough austerity measures. Now, though, a new
:06:11. > :06:17.bailout is needed to stop Greece defaulting on its debt - maybe a
:06:17. > :06:20.further 120 billion euros. Most of the money would have to be put up
:06:20. > :06:23.by other countries in the eurozone. But German Chancellor, Angela
:06:23. > :06:27.Merkel, says that private investors should take some of the pain too,
:06:27. > :06:32.perhaps by rolling over loans. And she may seek the participation of
:06:32. > :06:36.countries outside the eurozone, including the UK. Boris Johnson
:06:36. > :06:43.says that Greece should be allowed to default and leave the eurozone.
:06:43. > :06:46.Agreeing a second bailout would be "chucking good money after bad".
:06:46. > :06:51.George Osborne insists that Britain should not have to contribute to a
:06:51. > :06:55.new rescue. But the Government fears that a Greek default could
:06:55. > :06:58.spark off a new banking crisis. With financial markets unsettled by
:06:58. > :07:02.the uncertainty, a decision will have to be taken soon one way or
:07:02. > :07:07.the other. I'm joined now by our correspondent Steve Evans, who's in
:07:07. > :07:15.Luxembourg where EU finance ministers have been meeting. Maybe
:07:16. > :07:19.you can tell us firstly which way... What have they decided? They have
:07:19. > :07:23.decided, given the money -- give them the money, but only if they do
:07:23. > :07:27.the tough bit. They are not going to say you can have the money and
:07:27. > :07:31.we will wait to see what happens with the austerity measures.
:07:31. > :07:35.Basically, you can have the money, but you need to do it. There is a
:07:36. > :07:40.game of bluff going on because the eurozone ministers' meeting in
:07:40. > :07:45.Luxembourg know quite well that Greece defaulting would be a crisis
:07:45. > :07:49.for all of them. Greece has strong cards to pay, the eurozone
:07:49. > :07:53.ministers clearly have strong cards to pay in that they have the money.
:07:53. > :07:57.There has a lot of bluff going on, and arm-twisting, with the IMF
:07:57. > :08:03.saying you need to put up your bit of the money from the eurozone to
:08:03. > :08:09.keep this thing afloat. The great unspoken argument is, would it be
:08:09. > :08:12.better if Greece simply was cut loose from the eurozone? There is
:08:12. > :08:16.the difficulty of that for the people here because that would
:08:16. > :08:19.precipitate a banking crisis in Greece and that would probably
:08:19. > :08:27.precipitate banking crisis in other countries, perhaps including
:08:27. > :08:31.Britain. It is very much being shouted from the hilltops here,
:08:31. > :08:39.Boris Johnson saying cut them loose, let's not give a penny to them. How
:08:39. > :08:43.could Britain be pressured to do it and are they likely to do it?
:08:43. > :08:47.pressure would be if there were a crisis, let's imagine them acquire
:08:47. > :08:51.a Greek default, the Greek banking system collapsed, the Greek
:08:51. > :08:55.government could not repay its debts, you then look at the banks
:08:55. > :08:59.which have lent to Greece, they are primarily France, another to
:08:59. > :09:03.Germany, number three Britain. All of those banks would be going to
:09:04. > :09:08.their governments and saying, remember Lehman Brothers clumber --
:09:09. > :09:12.Lehman Brothers? Are you going to let us for? What are you going to
:09:12. > :09:17.do about it? That is the way the real politics would unfold in that
:09:17. > :09:21.extreme situation. It is not certain to happen. Maybe the
:09:21. > :09:27.austerity will go through, maybe the Greek economy will start to
:09:27. > :09:33.sort itself out, maybe productivity will rise and maybe this drip-drip
:09:33. > :09:38.approach of the bail-out will work. But the possibility, the scenario
:09:38. > :09:41.at the darkest end of it, is a very serious one. If British people
:09:42. > :09:48.think we are not in the eurozone so it doesn't affect us, the view here
:09:48. > :09:51.would be they are wrong. Thank you for that.
:09:51. > :09:53.With us now is Professor Costas Meghir, an economist from the
:09:53. > :10:03.University College London, and Sajid Javid, the Bromsgrove MP and
:10:03. > :10:06.
:10:06. > :10:10.a former director at Deutsche Bank. That -- it is the German banks who
:10:10. > :10:16.have the second biggest exposure to Greek debt after the French banks.
:10:16. > :10:21.They have already had 110 billion euros. And they need more, a lot
:10:21. > :10:26.more. Yet the Greek financial situation is just as bad as when
:10:27. > :10:30.they got there first bail-out. Why throw good money after bad? In my
:10:30. > :10:34.opinion Greece will almost certainly do fault, it is the
:10:34. > :10:38.question of time. It is a matter of months rather than years. The key
:10:38. > :10:41.issue is because time is so important, if more time can be
:10:41. > :10:46.purchased to help banks and other investors to prepare for this, it
:10:46. > :10:51.will benefit everyone, including the UK economy. They are not going
:10:51. > :10:57.slow in Europe to prepare for a default, they are going slow to try
:10:57. > :10:59.to negotiate the right terms in the hope of avoiding a default. In my
:11:00. > :11:03.opinion they went the vault -- avoid the default. The whole
:11:03. > :11:08.European project was based on political dishonesty in the first
:11:08. > :11:16.place and that has been continued by European leaders. Greece can't
:11:16. > :11:20.recover unless it leaves the euro, but it is better that more time is
:11:20. > :11:24.purchased so we avoid a Lehman Brothers scenario. Many observers
:11:24. > :11:27.believe Greece doesn't suffer from a liquidity problem, it is not
:11:27. > :11:33.short of cash and they need money just to tide it over until the
:11:33. > :11:37.money comes in, it is effectively bust and no amount of bail-out can
:11:37. > :11:43.rescue a bust economy. That is absolutely true. Greece is
:11:43. > :11:47.basically insolvent because of deep structural problems. The Labour
:11:47. > :11:50.markets and product markets and other aspects of the Greek economy
:11:50. > :11:59.have been not only neglected, but going worse over the last 30 years.
:11:59. > :12:04.What is happening now is that the Europeans have to think through the
:12:04. > :12:07.whole euro project. The 12 billion that Greece needs now to remain
:12:08. > :12:11.afloat will be forthcoming and I think there will be a vote of
:12:11. > :12:16.confidence passing on Tuesday because nobody is ready for an
:12:16. > :12:20.early summer apocalyptic scenario. But then they will have to think,
:12:20. > :12:27.they need to realise Greece is insolvent and the need to decide
:12:27. > :12:33.what to do. They Iraq two options. One is they decide, OK, the
:12:33. > :12:36.eurozone project is very important, we will go to some kind of fiscal
:12:36. > :12:42.union and we will forgive part of Greek debt against tough reforms
:12:42. > :12:45.and the market. Germans telling you how to run your fiscal policy.
:12:45. > :12:51.Exactly, or so the structure of the economy, like markets,
:12:51. > :12:59.privatisations. They would do that for you as well? That will go down
:12:59. > :13:03.a bomb in Athens! That is only one option. The other option is that
:13:03. > :13:11.Greece leaves the euro, it makes the debt into Crapper, which is a
:13:11. > :13:16.default. Your debt would still be in euros. -- drachma. If Greece
:13:16. > :13:22.left the euro, it would do nominate its debt in drachmas and default. A
:13:22. > :13:27.its current debt distilling euros. All Greek debt, 90% of group debt
:13:27. > :13:32.is under Greek law. Effectively nobody can stop them from
:13:32. > :13:38.dominating it in another currency. It will be a default, but it makes
:13:38. > :13:43.no sense for Greece to before start of the euro without nominating...
:13:43. > :13:48.The EU and the IMF are saying we will probably give you this but we
:13:48. > :13:51.want see evidence that things will change. I read this morning that
:13:51. > :13:58.this privatisation programme that is supposed to raise so much money
:13:58. > :14:02.has not even got off the ground. Nothing has been sold. And that in
:14:02. > :14:07.an economy dominated by the public sector, so far not a single civil
:14:07. > :14:12.servant has lost their job. Yes. is not happening. You're absolutely
:14:12. > :14:22.right and that is exactly the problem. You're asking what should
:14:22. > :14:23.
:14:23. > :14:28.happen. I think what should happen is that we need to start a very
:14:28. > :14:32.deep programme of reforms. You are talking about privatisations, but
:14:32. > :14:35.only a public finance issue, at the same time you need to change the
:14:35. > :14:41.structure of the economy, you need to increase competition and change
:14:41. > :14:46.the legal structure. Griggs paying tax would be interesting. Then
:14:46. > :14:51.there is another misconception. That the constitution does not
:14:51. > :14:56.allow firing civil servants, it does. There should be a big reform?
:14:56. > :15:02.Yes. Does the British government have a policy? I think it does. We
:15:02. > :15:05.have to act in our best interests. What is the policy? It is in our
:15:05. > :15:10.best interests that there is no immediate collapse of Greeks and
:15:10. > :15:16.other peripheral countries in the euro countries. We trade over half
:15:16. > :15:20.our exports with the eurozone. Almost 500% of GDP, which leads to
:15:20. > :15:30.greater exposure to the eurozone. We are in favour of a second juror
:15:30. > :15:34.K bailout should be managed by the eurozone countries. I would not
:15:34. > :15:38.like to see us participate in a second bailout. I did not as
:15:38. > :15:43.whether we should participate. Regardless of whether we
:15:43. > :15:47.participate or not, is the British government in favour of a second
:15:47. > :15:50.the EU bailout? I cannot speak for the British government, but what is
:15:50. > :15:53.interesting is that there was a meeting of European ministers
:15:53. > :15:57.yesterday, and I gather the Chancellor did not attend. I think
:15:57. > :16:02.if he had, they would have expected him to bring his cheque from. That
:16:02. > :16:06.speaks for itself. If we step back from this, the euro was always a
:16:06. > :16:10.bankruptcy machine. The causes may be different in the different
:16:10. > :16:15.countries, but the trigger point is exactly the same, and that is the
:16:15. > :16:20.euro. Fundamentally, the countries in their need to move to fiscal
:16:20. > :16:27.union all we need to get rid of it. The Chancellor had an important
:16:27. > :16:33.event to attend, his 40th birthday! Have before tax money to be used to
:16:33. > :16:38.bail out Greece? -- happy for your tax money. I like people, schools
:16:38. > :16:44.and countries to be held to account. I will take that as a no! Thank you
:16:44. > :16:47.for coming back. His story is going to run all through the summer,
:16:47. > :16:51.particularly because the Government's majority in Greece is
:16:51. > :16:57.about five seats. This morning, Michael Gove gave a
:16:57. > :17:01.speech at a think tank just around the corner. Katharine was there. He
:17:01. > :17:05.was crowing about the success of his free schools policy with about
:17:05. > :17:08.20 to open in September. We have been following one, a primary
:17:08. > :17:14.Academy in Berkshire, and Max Cotton has been to meet the new
:17:15. > :17:18.teachers who have been appointed since we were last there.
:17:18. > :17:23.This is Langley Hall, and we have been watching it transformed from
:17:23. > :17:27.the grain of an idea into a real school opening its doors after the
:17:27. > :17:32.summer holidays. Like other free schools, this one will be funded
:17:32. > :17:36.out of general taxation, but they are controlled and run by private
:17:36. > :17:41.companies or individuals. Since we were last here, the teaching staff
:17:41. > :17:44.have been hired, and while the building work at the school goes on
:17:44. > :17:49.in preparation for the arrival of Langley Hall's first pupils, we
:17:49. > :17:55.have gone to the local pub. In primary school tradition, we
:17:55. > :18:00.started with a bit of show and tell. Priya has been teaching for 12
:18:00. > :18:05.years and will be concentrating on the youngest pupils at Langley Hall.
:18:05. > :18:11.Brendan has been teaching for 11 years, and his expertise is in
:18:11. > :18:16.special needs. Elaine has been a teacher for more than 30 years, and
:18:16. > :18:20.her subject is music. I want to ask you all, what has attracted you to
:18:20. > :18:25.this school? Many things. The main thing is the ethos of the school
:18:25. > :18:28.matches my home. The Health is preparing children for life. --
:18:28. > :18:34.ethos. We will be doing that through looking at life skills,
:18:34. > :18:38.which is very much in tune with the early years curriculum. It is new,
:18:38. > :18:42.exciting we are experiencing it from the start, and we have got a
:18:42. > :18:45.great team of people who are determined to make it work. Have
:18:45. > :18:50.you been able to pay for it to light out of the curriculum? Is
:18:50. > :18:54.that a good thing? Yes. It is choosing the things that are right
:18:54. > :18:59.for the children we are going to be teaching. When I first started
:18:59. > :19:02.teaching 32 years ago, it was a more free form of education. I saw
:19:02. > :19:07.the national curriculum cumin and teachers being channelled down a
:19:07. > :19:10.specific path. There are aspects of the natural curriculum which we are
:19:10. > :19:14.going to take, and we want to take them on because they are right, but
:19:14. > :19:23.certain parts we can now tailor to what we want to do and what is
:19:23. > :19:28.right for the children. Is it elitist? It is not selective. The
:19:28. > :19:32.admissions criteria are in line with admissions criteria for other
:19:32. > :19:37.local authority schools. You have got people leaving independent
:19:37. > :19:42.private schools to come to this school, haven't you? Only 25%, the
:19:42. > :19:45.rest are coming from state schools, so it is a great mixture. And that
:19:45. > :19:50.is not elitism, it is parents choosing to send their children to
:19:50. > :19:54.the school. They are not being selected as such. They have to be
:19:54. > :19:58.alive at the same admissions criteria as anyone else applying. -
:19:58. > :20:05.- in line. And you're all being paid much more money, is that
:20:05. > :20:11.right? Hardly! We are being paid in line with standard pay scales.
:20:11. > :20:17.it is the same Quetta mark you are not in it for the money? No.
:20:18. > :20:23.are all idealists customer TS. As many as 20 free schools will be
:20:23. > :20:28.opening in September. The take-up next it could be over 200.
:20:28. > :20:31.Our guest is planning to set up a free school in south London, and in
:20:31. > :20:36.the Middlesbrough studio is the Labour education spokesman, Ian
:20:36. > :20:42.Wright. You are setting up any borough of Lambeth, I think. That
:20:42. > :20:46.is right. If the local education authority, which I assume controls
:20:46. > :20:50.most of the schools in that area, is it helping or hindering? Well,
:20:50. > :20:55.at the moment we are in discussions with the local authority, and I'm
:20:55. > :20:59.hoping that they will be held for. What you need from them? Well, the
:20:59. > :21:04.building that we would like is an old school building, and it belongs
:21:04. > :21:07.to the council. It would be for the council to negotiate with the
:21:07. > :21:12.Department for Education and when the time comes. So they could
:21:12. > :21:17.refuse to let you have the building. You have another one? No. We would
:21:17. > :21:23.be in trouble. How much money when you get from the government to run
:21:23. > :21:33.the school? Well, schools are funded on a pay-per-view basis. --
:21:33. > :21:35.
:21:36. > :21:40.Our intention is to build up the number of pupils every year.
:21:40. > :21:45.main advantage that these schools have is that they are independent
:21:45. > :21:49.of the local authority, so people think. But the school that you got
:21:49. > :21:54.into so much trouble in after a speech was independent of the local
:21:54. > :21:57.authority as well, wasn't it? It was an academy. You are right to
:21:57. > :22:01.say that they will be run in the same way that academies are run.
:22:01. > :22:08.They are exactly the same, really. The difference is that a free
:22:08. > :22:11.school is set up by people in the community, and what academy status
:22:11. > :22:17.for free school status in says Gould is the freedom to be ever to
:22:17. > :22:20.make decisions. Just like that teacher was saying, certain parts
:22:20. > :22:26.of the curriculum are useful for their population of children, and
:22:26. > :22:28.some parts are not. It seems silly that people from the local
:22:28. > :22:33.authority who do not know about teaching should come and tell
:22:33. > :22:38.teachers how to teach, or tell the governors have to govern. Let me go
:22:38. > :22:44.to Ian Wright. We have not got much time, I am afraid, but we will come
:22:44. > :22:49.back to the subject. I'm interested, for our viewers and for myself, his
:22:49. > :22:52.Labour for or against establishing these free schools? Good morning.
:22:52. > :22:58.Labour is against the establishment of free schools as national policy,
:22:58. > :23:02.I hope that is fairly clear. It is fairly clear, and your boss, Andy
:23:02. > :23:08.Burnham, when asked on another BBC shows said, yes, I am against them
:23:08. > :23:13.as well, but he then said that he rather liked the look of a free
:23:13. > :23:17.school being started up by a Labour supporter, Peter Hyman. I think
:23:18. > :23:22.Andy, to be fair to him, is very pragmatic. He recognises that when
:23:22. > :23:27.we get back into power in 2015, the educational landscape will be very
:23:27. > :23:29.different. He also appreciates that many parents and people setting of
:23:30. > :23:35.free schools have the best interests of pupils and children at
:23:35. > :23:38.heart. He has to be pragmatic, quite rightly, because we cannot
:23:38. > :23:43.support that kind of blanket statement. But as a national policy,
:23:43. > :23:47.Labour is opposed to free schools. So why has the support of Peter
:23:47. > :23:52.Hyman setting up a pre-school? is right in thinking that,
:23:52. > :23:58.depending on local circumstances, what is available and turns of a
:23:58. > :24:01.specific area, different approaches are needed. -- in terms of. So you
:24:01. > :24:05.may be for or against them depending on local circumstances.
:24:05. > :24:09.think I have been clear in saying that as a national policy we are
:24:09. > :24:13.against it. If it is national policy to be against them, why are
:24:14. > :24:19.you in favour of one set up by a Labour adviser? You are posing one
:24:19. > :24:25.set up by a Tory sympathiser, Toby Young. Why you in favour of Peter
:24:25. > :24:29.Hyman's? We are opposed to it as a national policy. Far too much time
:24:29. > :24:32.and attention has been devoted by Michael Gove and Department for
:24:32. > :24:35.Education officials on the matter, and we should have a policy for all
:24:35. > :24:40.children, to stretch all children to have the ambition for every
:24:40. > :24:44.single child going through the process, not just for a narrow
:24:44. > :24:51.elite. If and when you get back into power, will you abolish free
:24:51. > :24:55.schools? No, and I think that is where Andy is being pragmatic.
:24:55. > :24:59.Let's look at local circumstances and see how these schools are doing.
:24:59. > :25:04.Thank you for joining us from Middlesbrough, thank you very much.
:25:04. > :25:07.Now, you may agree or disagree with what he stood for, but there was no
:25:07. > :25:10.doubting that Brian Haw made his mark on Westminster through 10
:25:10. > :25:14.years of protest in Parliament Square. His death was announced at
:25:14. > :25:18.the weekend. Adam has been having a look back at his life.
:25:18. > :25:22.Anyone who came to Westminster, whether they were working or
:25:23. > :25:26.visiting as a tourist, saw this, the protests started by Brian Haw.
:25:26. > :25:32.He first pitched up in 2001. He was angry about sanctions being imposed
:25:32. > :25:36.on Iraq, but his protests grew in the wake of the war on terror, the
:25:36. > :25:39.war in Afghanistan and the war against Saddam Hussein. In his ten-
:25:39. > :25:43.year vigil, he around three different prime ministers, often
:25:43. > :25:47.with a megaphone, until it was taken away from him. The local MP
:25:47. > :25:50.said that Brian Haw enjoyed being a pain in the neck. He will be
:25:50. > :25:55.pleased to know that his anarchic spirit lives on amongst his
:25:55. > :26:00.supporters. I have said to the skies that, out of respect I will
:26:00. > :26:04.not put anything... But some of them were willing to speak to us.
:26:04. > :26:08.have come to erect a blue plaque for Brian Haw to commemorate the
:26:08. > :26:12.sterling work that he did for the peace movement in Parliament Square
:26:12. > :26:17.through the years, through wind, rain and snow. There were numerous
:26:17. > :26:20.attempts to remove them, including a law which bans demonstrations at
:26:20. > :26:25.Westminster, but he often found that as a peaceful protest of the
:26:25. > :26:29.law was on his side. Last year, a new group of activists this to up,
:26:29. > :26:33.leading to serious divisions among the parliaments were protesters. --
:26:33. > :26:37.pitched up. The big question is what happens now that Brian Haw has
:26:37. > :26:41.passed away? The local council and many MPs, while up holding the
:26:41. > :26:46.right to protest, would be glad if this was no longer a permanent
:26:46. > :26:50.feature on their doorstep. Jenny Jones from the Green Party is
:26:50. > :26:55.with us, very much a Brian Haw supporter. What was he like? You
:26:55. > :26:58.knew him, didn't you? He was clearly very brave, very committed,
:26:58. > :27:03.and I think millions of people in Britain will think he was right in
:27:03. > :27:07.trying to bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. He was
:27:07. > :27:10.political Marmite, wasn't he? Some people objective to the spectacle
:27:10. > :27:14.that he created in Parliament Square. There was a running joke
:27:14. > :27:19.that he ought to have a designer in on his placards and then he might
:27:19. > :27:22.be more acceptable to the establishment. He is one of those
:27:22. > :27:26.great British eccentrics, and we should remember him like that, an
:27:26. > :27:29.incredibly brave man. Although it did not make much difference in the
:27:30. > :27:33.end, did it? How much to these protests make a difference? It is
:27:33. > :27:37.difficult to say, because they colour the whole political
:27:37. > :27:40.landscape in a certain way, so it is difficult to know. But he was
:27:40. > :27:44.somebody who put his life on the line. You could say he was another
:27:44. > :27:49.casualty of war, because living outside for 10 years cannot be good
:27:49. > :27:53.for your health. Should the protesters now move away? I do not
:27:53. > :27:57.think so. I think they have a right to be there and make their point.
:27:57. > :28:01.When the climate can was there, it was amazing how many tourists
:28:01. > :28:07.thought it was part of the two has seen in London. But Westminster
:28:07. > :28:11.council now has a real duty and should probably put paid blue
:28:11. > :28:16.plaque there for Brian Haw. heard that argument, fixture, I saw,
:28:16. > :28:21.where do you stand? I am all for the blue plaque. I am not sure I am
:28:21. > :28:25.all the protesters. On the other hand, there is the right to protest.
:28:25. > :28:29.It is a difficult one, I think I might sit on the fence, but I am
:28:29. > :28:35.all for the blue plaque. Some may say 90 need a lifetime of
:28:35. > :28:39.achievement for that 10 years of protest may not qualify. That is it
:28:39. > :28:43.for today. Thank you to our guests, especially Katharine for being
:28:43. > :28:47.guest of the day. We are back at 11:30am tomorrow, the early start