:00:28. > :00:35.Good morning, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. More commit other
:00:35. > :00:39.high street. Two more retail chains announced shop closures. Thorntons
:00:39. > :00:43.and TJ Hughes are the latest victims. Thousands of jobs are
:00:43. > :00:47.malign. We are asking what, if anything, can be done. More power
:00:47. > :00:51.to the students. The Government says it wants greater competition
:00:51. > :00:55.between universities. Labour calls the latest shake-up to higher
:00:55. > :00:59.education a complete shambles. And they are back on the streets,
:00:59. > :01:09.eight two day general strike is being held across Greece ahead of a
:01:09. > :01:15.vote that could determine the So, all of that in the next half-
:01:15. > :01:25.hour. With us for the duration, media and advertising might
:01:25. > :01:29.
:01:29. > :01:33.Let's turn our eyes to the visit of Wen Jiabao yesterday. It appears
:01:33. > :01:39.the Chinese premier is not happy with David Cameron criticising
:01:40. > :01:43.China's human rights record. Do you do business in China? Big business,
:01:43. > :01:47.close to $1 billion. What should come first, business of human
:01:48. > :01:55.rights? The answer is probably both. But there are ways of doing it. I
:01:55. > :02:00.draw a distinction between what we saw Jack rocks and the IOC do
:02:00. > :02:10.around the Beijing Olympics. -- Jack rocks. There were external
:02:10. > :02:13.
:02:13. > :02:18.issues like Sudan and Darfur. The quiet diplomacy, in the context of
:02:18. > :02:24.the Beijing Olympics, dealing with difficult issues, against how
:02:24. > :02:30.Google handled a similar set of issues and, in a way, how the Prime
:02:30. > :02:34.Minister yesterday talked about human rights issues, the Chinese-
:02:34. > :02:42.made moves last week to release prisoners and try to deal with the
:02:42. > :02:45.issue. It doesn't work to, in public, take them to task.
:02:45. > :02:49.David Cameron done too much of that? I think it's a difficult
:02:49. > :02:53.thing to balance. You are making political decisions, you have to
:02:53. > :02:57.counterbalance... Has he got the balance right? If you actually
:02:57. > :03:01.tried to do something, I don't think... It is this odd question
:03:01. > :03:06.about a loss of face. Westerners get worried about that. I think the
:03:06. > :03:10.key issue is that you do it in private, the Chinese listen and
:03:10. > :03:14.learn, if you have a strong case, talked to them privately and they
:03:14. > :03:18.will change and move on. Slapping them in the face in public, whether
:03:18. > :03:22.it is Google, and I don't think it was quite as bad yesterday as
:03:22. > :03:25.people are making out, but I think it's counter-productive. When you
:03:25. > :03:29.say business of human rights, you can achieve one with the other, by
:03:29. > :03:33.working closely with them. Do we really want to be friends with
:03:33. > :03:37.them? They are always mounting cyber-attacks against us, they are
:03:37. > :03:42.not our friends. The MI5 has written that hundreds of UK
:03:42. > :03:46.companies have been hacked by the Government of China. The German
:03:46. > :03:50.government says that the personal computer of Chancellor Merkel was
:03:50. > :04:00.hacked into. Are you suggesting that Julian Assange is a Chinese
:04:00. > :04:09.plant? No, I think he is Australian. The Vodafone network, there were 90
:04:09. > :04:15.million a tax on consumer accounts. On the road system, about 6 million
:04:15. > :04:20.a year. Cyber-attacks is a major issue and we had only seen the
:04:20. > :04:23.beginning of it. But there are many types of hackers. People are
:04:23. > :04:27.attributed to many governments. It's going to be an issue we have
:04:27. > :04:31.to deal with increasingly, whether it be Sony, the attacks they have
:04:31. > :04:36.suffered, or others in recent months. It's a big issue, but you
:04:36. > :04:40.can't put it at the door of the Chinese totally. Have you ever been
:04:41. > :04:47.in a dilemma where, on the one hand, if we going to this market and do
:04:47. > :04:55.this we could make a lot of money, on the other hand... Yes. Sudan.
:04:55. > :05:00.Iran. I was offered a considerable piece of business by a major
:05:00. > :05:04.multinational company in Iran. Which, to the front, given the
:05:04. > :05:07.sanctions that were meant to be operating and which the UK and
:05:07. > :05:15.American government claimed are being effective, I was shocked to
:05:15. > :05:20.even have the offer made to me. We declined. Burma, Cuba is off limits.
:05:20. > :05:26.There may be political changes. Iran is actually one of the next 11,
:05:26. > :05:30.I call it the next 10, because Iran is of the map. We made the decision
:05:30. > :05:37.not to do it. If it's a difficult decision. If you go to Turkey, you
:05:37. > :05:41.will find many examples of sanction busting through Turkey. We are glad
:05:41. > :05:49.you took the decision to be with us today. We've got a lot more to talk
:05:49. > :05:52.about. An offer I couldn't refuse. Andrew Neil, the Godfather! Plans
:05:52. > :05:55.for a radical shake-up of universities in England will be set
:05:55. > :05:59.up by the Government today. Ministers say they want to increase
:05:59. > :06:02.competition and provide potential students with more information.
:06:02. > :06:07.They are hoping to improve what they are calling the quality of
:06:07. > :06:10.courses and drive down the level of fees. They also propose allowing
:06:10. > :06:14.private companies to offer degrees and the best investors to recruit
:06:14. > :06:18.more students with top grades. This is what David Willetts had to say
:06:18. > :06:22.earlier today. What we are saying is, look, students are going to be
:06:23. > :06:26.thinking very carefully about the quality of the academic experience
:06:26. > :06:30.at university, what their job prospects after they had been to
:06:30. > :06:33.university. We are looking for a transformation in the amount of
:06:33. > :06:37.information that they get so that they will be able to make well-
:06:37. > :06:42.informed choices. It will really drive universities to think about,
:06:42. > :06:46.well, how crowded are the seminars? How much practical experience do
:06:46. > :06:49.they get, how much work experience do we provide? Those are the things
:06:49. > :06:52.that students care about and we want them to know what is being
:06:52. > :06:56.offered. No government minister was available to talk about the
:06:56. > :07:00.proposals. We are joined by Gareth Thomas, the shadow university's
:07:00. > :07:04.minister. Isn't is a good thing that the universities that people
:07:04. > :07:08.really want to go to La going to be given the freedom to get bigger?
:07:08. > :07:12.the Government proposals, the vast majority of students who get the
:07:12. > :07:15.highest grades get the opportunity to go to university. What is in
:07:15. > :07:21.this white paper is that the number of student places that we are
:07:21. > :07:25.seeing offered, at a far lower rate, is likely to be increased. Students
:07:25. > :07:29.are going to seek place is taken from mainstream universities,
:07:29. > :07:35.beneath the very highest level, and offered at far lower rates. That is
:07:35. > :07:40.likely to affair in a -- a share in a new generation of high property
:07:40. > :07:46.corporations, some of which have very low degree completion rates
:07:46. > :07:50.and high drop-out rates. I'll come to private universities in a moment.
:07:50. > :07:54.But students are not stupid. They will go to the university that will
:07:54. > :07:58.give them the best chance of scoring a job in the future. That
:07:58. > :08:01.will give them the best student experience. Really, what will
:08:01. > :08:06.happen, is that those that are poor-quality will fall by the
:08:06. > :08:10.wayside. That is just the way it should be? Well, that is not what
:08:10. > :08:13.the Government is saying. It is taking place is away from
:08:13. > :08:17.universities, many universities with a pretty good reputation at
:08:17. > :08:24.the moment. It is going to offer them, in an auction, to the lowest
:08:24. > :08:30.bidder. Beneath the highest universities, you are going to see
:08:30. > :08:33.cuts... Of what examples can you give me where they are taken places
:08:33. > :08:37.away from a successful, good university? By what benchmarks do
:08:37. > :08:40.you say it is good? The Government is going to propose that the
:08:40. > :08:44.students that get a highest grades will be able to go at the
:08:44. > :08:48.University of their choice, if the universe deep in question wants to
:08:48. > :08:54.expand. Beneath that level, what the Government have been ripping up
:08:54. > :08:58.to now is that they want to cut university places at every other
:08:58. > :09:03.university by a small amount, 20,000 places, and offer them, in
:09:03. > :09:11.an auction, to a lower bidder. Doesn't that drive down prices for
:09:11. > :09:16.students? That is what they want to hear, they want to pay less? That
:09:16. > :09:20.is what they want to do, drive down the headline fees that they have it
:09:20. > :09:23.-- allowed to rise to �9,000 in most cases. Potentially, what they
:09:23. > :09:28.are going to do is make a race to the bottom, to lower quality
:09:28. > :09:31.degrees. I don't know why you keep saying that, they will go to the
:09:31. > :09:37.cheap university that is the best in that bracket. Martin Sorrell,
:09:37. > :09:43.what do you think? I welcome greater private sector... As in
:09:43. > :09:45.most areas of activity, greater private sector involvement. I
:09:45. > :09:49.noticed the Shadow Minister talked about the American experience. My
:09:49. > :09:53.experience of the private sector in America is that it has been pretty
:09:53. > :09:58.vibrant, it has contributed to general levels of improving
:09:58. > :10:02.education and training, at different levels. At the most
:10:02. > :10:06.excellent degree level, at trade schools, that schools on down. I
:10:06. > :10:13.feel that involving the private sector is not a bad thing. Netting
:10:13. > :10:17.fees inflate I think is very important. Actually, I did
:10:17. > :10:20.something for business schools at the turn of the millennium. We
:10:20. > :10:24.looked at business schools. There are too many in the UK. You get
:10:24. > :10:31.people coming in and donating to create a new school, that sucks in
:10:31. > :10:35.more teens, Chancellors, students, you get a lowest common denominator.
:10:35. > :10:39.I want the highest common multiple. One of the things we can sell the
:10:40. > :10:45.Chinese is education and training, it's one of our strengths. Boosting
:10:45. > :10:48.the private sector in education, having a public and private
:10:48. > :10:52.partnership is not a bad thing, it's a good thing. Students
:10:52. > :10:57.investing in their education, being able to pay for it longer term,
:10:57. > :11:01.very much the American model, I think that's a good thing. I don't
:11:01. > :11:05.agree with Martin's General point that there is a role for public-
:11:05. > :11:09.private partnerships. There is a role for the private sector. But if
:11:09. > :11:12.you take what has happened in America, many of the very big
:11:12. > :11:17.business higher education corporations do have very high
:11:17. > :11:21.drop-out rates, very low degree completion rates. They have very
:11:21. > :11:25.aggressive recruitment practices. Some of them have been compared to
:11:25. > :11:27.the pension mis-selling scandals we have had over here in the past. I
:11:27. > :11:30.think we have to be extremely careful that quality is not
:11:30. > :11:35.sacrificed because of the Government's financial incompetence,
:11:35. > :11:39.to drive down fees for students. But the Americans have eight of the
:11:39. > :11:43.top 10 universities in the world, they are the benchmark, Harvard,
:11:43. > :11:46.Yale, these are the best universities in the world. We are
:11:46. > :11:50.not talking about those type of universities expanding go be here.
:11:50. > :11:54.We are talking about universities that offer a far lower standard of
:11:54. > :11:59.education. Otherwise we would not have the statistics from the US.
:11:59. > :12:04.are talking about a leaked White Paper, we haven't seen it yet. Is
:12:04. > :12:09.there going to be some sort of benchmark to, testing, approval
:12:09. > :12:13.process? One would hope so. One would hope that they are regulated
:12:14. > :12:18.more vigorously, more often, in order to prove their worth. It's
:12:18. > :12:22.not clear if that is going to happen. We will get those details,
:12:22. > :12:28.as you say. We've got quite convincing leaks, but when we see
:12:28. > :12:32.it for real we will have you back. Greece, and the trade unions have
:12:33. > :12:36.begun a 48 hour general strike against the proposed drastic public
:12:36. > :12:41.spending cuts, which are being voted on by parliament tomorrow in
:12:41. > :12:45.Athens. If their package of austerity measures is rejected,
:12:45. > :12:50.degraded national loans will have to be withheld. The country could
:12:50. > :12:55.run out of money within two weeks, some say. That would throw the
:12:55. > :13:01.European sovereign debt crisis into a new level of chaos. Jon Sopel is
:13:01. > :13:08.in Athens. The demonstrators, are they going through the motions or
:13:08. > :13:13.do they believe that they can stop these austerity plans? I think the
:13:13. > :13:20.key is how many people turn out. If it is hundreds of thousands of
:13:20. > :13:23.people who turn out and show that the anger is widespread, not just
:13:23. > :13:27.concentrated amongst trade unionists, I think that will have
:13:27. > :13:32.some influence. The other factor to bear in mind is how much trouble
:13:32. > :13:37.there is today. We have seen groups of at -- anarchists, and I think we
:13:37. > :13:41.can see them emerging into the square, wielding sticks, or wearing
:13:41. > :13:47.gas masks and crash helmets. They are clearly intent on causing some
:13:47. > :13:50.trouble here. Now, I think some trouble was always going to be
:13:51. > :13:56.expected and anticipated today. If you look at the opinion polls, it
:13:56. > :14:02.is not just a small minority of people opposed to the austerity
:14:02. > :14:09.measures that are protesting outside Parliament today. It is 70
:14:09. > :14:13.to 80% of the Greek people. We are broadcasting from Syntagma Square,
:14:13. > :14:17.from the roof of what should be prime real estate. The building is
:14:17. > :14:22.largely derelict and empty because so many businesses have closed
:14:22. > :14:26.during the past year or so of the austerity crisis. If people had
:14:26. > :14:29.expected the parliament to vote for the austerity measures. But when
:14:29. > :14:33.the politicians see the scale of the demonstration you are looking
:14:33. > :14:40.on know, might they changed their minds? Might there be a vote to
:14:40. > :14:45.reject austerity? Let's deal with the maths. For those that don't
:14:45. > :14:49.know the precise numbers in the Greek parliament, there are 300 MPs,
:14:49. > :14:55.155 of them are from the ruling Socialist Party. If they all toe
:14:55. > :15:00.the line, George Papandreou should get it past. If you Socialists say
:15:00. > :15:03.they are going to vote against. There is also a lot of pressure on
:15:03. > :15:08.the centre-right to come in and back it. They will be very aware of
:15:09. > :15:13.the people out there. If you like, Greece has two choices. One of them
:15:13. > :15:17.is awful and the other one is calamitous. I think that is what
:15:17. > :15:21.the Greek politicians have to weigh in mind. Do they go for the awful
:15:21. > :15:26.choice of having another austerity programme, further tax increases,
:15:26. > :15:30.further spending cuts, on a country that is already suffering? Or do
:15:30. > :15:33.they go for the calamitous choice, and many people think it would be,
:15:33. > :15:43.of a default and all of the consequences that might flow from
:15:43. > :15:44.
:15:44. > :15:49.that? Not just, of course, for Thank you, look after yourself.
:15:49. > :15:53.Looks like it will be a hot day in Athens in more ways than one. Don't
:15:53. > :15:58.we meet a reality check? Greece has already had a bail-out, it is now
:15:59. > :16:02.looking for another 100 billion bail-out, it may come back for a
:16:02. > :16:06.third bail-out and the austerity measures, which mean massive
:16:06. > :16:12.unemployment in the public sector and huge privatisation, is probably
:16:12. > :16:21.not going to happen? It is too big to sail again. Look at the knock-on
:16:21. > :16:26.effects. That is different. Would it be Portugal, Ireland, Spain,
:16:26. > :16:30.there are still a fundamental issues to be dealt with. It is too
:16:30. > :16:35.big to fail, it is Northern Rock and Lehman Brothers all over again.
:16:35. > :16:39.Look at the ramifications for the system, it is also interconnected.
:16:39. > :16:46.At the end of the day, to say it is posturing would be unfair because
:16:46. > :16:51.it is much deeper than that, but this is a process... In the case of
:16:51. > :16:57.restructuring and bankrupts, they like companies to go through this
:16:57. > :17:05.as well. Somebody is going to have to pay the bill at the end of the
:17:05. > :17:08.day. You are part of the eurozone, in Ireland. Right? Yes. Has the
:17:09. > :17:15.euro got a future? We are coming back to the UK if the legislation
:17:15. > :17:21.gets... Coming back to Britain? This is not unique to Daily
:17:21. > :17:27.Politics. This isn't the Politics Show! This is Daily Politics.
:17:27. > :17:33.sorry. We're coming back when the legislation is enacted. We said
:17:33. > :17:40.after the last Budget, we would get shareholders' approval, which we
:17:40. > :17:45.haven't got yet, but on the euro, I think it does hang together and it
:17:45. > :17:49.will hang together. Putting myself out on a limb but I think the
:17:49. > :17:54.Greeks will approve it. There is a contingency plan that the EU have
:17:54. > :17:59.already indicated they will put in place, emergency funding, and then
:17:59. > :18:02.they will ask the Greeks to make the decision again. The politicians
:18:02. > :18:07.are stuck between the banks and between the people so they have to
:18:07. > :18:14.go through this process. It is very unpleasant. You have Amicis
:18:14. > :18:19.involved as well. It is very unseemly and difficult -- you have
:18:19. > :18:24.anarchists involved as well. Let me be the first to welcome you back.
:18:24. > :18:28.We missed you. You should never have gone. It was the threat of
:18:29. > :18:37.increased taxation, not the reality. Let's turn our eyes to the high
:18:37. > :18:41.streets. Or is really not well in the retail sector. A David Bailey
:18:42. > :18:48.goes by without another household name announcing a fall in profits
:18:48. > :18:51.and shop closures -- barely a day goes by. It is carnage on the high
:18:51. > :18:56.street! Carnage is the word for it to be
:18:56. > :19:06.honest and it looks like it may just keep getting worse. Gloomy to
:19:06. > :19:10.say the least. Be warned, the list of shops I am going to go through
:19:10. > :19:13.is very, very long. At first, we mourned the disappearance of those
:19:13. > :19:18.charming family owned shops as we bemoaned an attack of the clones,
:19:18. > :19:21.the big generic superstores. But now it looks like closing time for
:19:21. > :19:24.some of the giant retailers. This morning, chocolate purveyors
:19:24. > :19:31.Thorntons announced plans to close up to 180 stores over the next
:19:31. > :19:34.Fashion store Jane Norman shut all it's 90 stores this weekend. It
:19:34. > :19:39.reopened them yesterday but only to the administrators. Although
:19:39. > :19:42.efforts are being sold to sell it. Up to 1,600 jobs are at risk.
:19:42. > :19:47.Liverpool-based TJ Hughes has also said it will call in the
:19:47. > :19:50.administrators. Up to 4,000 jobs are thought to be at risk.
:19:50. > :19:54.On Friday, Habitat, founded in 1964 by Sir Terrence Conran, saw its 30
:19:54. > :19:57.stores outside London placed into administration. 900 jobs are under
:19:57. > :20:04.threat. Mothercare announced in May it will
:20:05. > :20:08.shut 110 outlets and and focus on out of town super-stores.
:20:08. > :20:13.HMV announced plans to close 60 stores at the beginning of the year
:20:13. > :20:19.due to declining sales. It has also sold the Waterstones book chain for
:20:19. > :20:26.�53 million to prop up its finances. Focus DIY and Oddbins are amongst
:20:26. > :20:30.other stores that have faced buy- I'm joined now by Stephen Robertson
:20:30. > :20:36.from the British Retail Consortium. This is a miserable lift. What do
:20:36. > :20:41.you blame it on? There is no doubt that the consumer has got a lot
:20:41. > :20:45.less in their pockets. We saw it reported last month, 8% less
:20:45. > :20:51.discretionary spend. Where that is really hitting, as your list
:20:51. > :20:58.demonstrates, is the non-food retailers because it is
:20:59. > :21:04.discretionary spending that gets hits first. It is then non-food
:21:04. > :21:09.retailers that we saw serious decline in, we have all got to eat.
:21:09. > :21:14.Those sales are being sold at a poor practice because of the deals
:21:14. > :21:20.and offers that go behind them. good ones will survive, the bad
:21:20. > :21:30.ones will sink and that may be no bad thing? Remember, the retail
:21:30. > :21:33.sector is 10% of all jobs in the UK. That is 3 million jobs. These
:21:33. > :21:37.closures and reductions in trading are not without consequence and
:21:38. > :21:41.right now, it is very important that the private sector is well
:21:41. > :21:48.positioned to be able to mop up some of the jobs that we have seen
:21:48. > :21:53.been shed in the public sector and we need to get from cuts to growth.
:21:53. > :21:59.What do you want the government to do? You want a big hand to be
:21:59. > :22:04.played? No. We do not want handouts. But there is no doubt about it,
:22:04. > :22:09.things like the business rates increase that we saw at Easter, and
:22:09. > :22:12.eye-watering 4.5%, do not help the situation. We do need action. The
:22:12. > :22:16.red tape challenge that the Secretary of State for the
:22:16. > :22:21.Department of business has issued. We need to get conclusions to
:22:21. > :22:25.remove some of the problems that we have in business to do with ticking
:22:25. > :22:29.boxes. In the employment legislation, we have seen growth in
:22:29. > :22:33.the number of people going to industrial tribunals, which wastes
:22:33. > :22:37.time and money in business. Let's see those sorts of things sorted
:22:37. > :22:42.out very quickly. We have seen the appointment of a celebrity to
:22:42. > :22:47.review the high street. Let's get to action, not more reviews. Thank
:22:47. > :22:50.you very much. Back to Andrew. Thank you.
:22:50. > :22:56.With us now is Allister Heath, editor of City AM, and Clare Perry,
:22:56. > :23:02.who is a Conservative MP. Welcome. Allister, let's UN pick this. Let
:23:02. > :23:07.me suggest to you, fundamentally a lot of these shops are closing
:23:07. > :23:11.because of this incredible squeeze on living standards. People's wages
:23:11. > :23:16.are not in any way keeping pace with prices. They just don't want
:23:16. > :23:23.to spend any more. That is the number one reason for this
:23:23. > :23:26.situation. When retail sales stopped growing or shrink, the best
:23:26. > :23:31.performers continue to do well but the weaker shops go bust and that
:23:31. > :23:36.is what is happening. When things are harder, we see a difference
:23:36. > :23:40.between the retailers. Inflation is very high, taxes are going up and
:23:40. > :23:44.in comes a not keeping up. The second reason is the technological
:23:44. > :23:49.revolution, which is linked to the first. That is the longer term
:23:49. > :23:53.trend. When everything is booming, when retail sales are going up
:23:53. > :23:57.because of cheap credit, the fact that internet retailers were going
:23:57. > :24:01.up 20% did not matter for traditional bricks and mortar shops.
:24:01. > :24:05.Now it does. People are shopping mall online so there we could
:24:06. > :24:11.traditional stores are going under and that trend is not going to stop
:24:11. > :24:16.any time soon. So all the closures we see of famous high street names
:24:16. > :24:22.is a direct consequence of the government policy. It is a
:24:22. > :24:26.consequence of unravelling a decade of over leverage. People are
:24:26. > :24:31.perhaps moving from consumption toward saving and investment and in
:24:31. > :24:37.the long term, that makes for a more sustainable economy. Meanwhile
:24:37. > :24:42.the casualties of Sirius. The good shops continue to survive. -- the
:24:42. > :24:47.casualties are serious. John Lewis had its best performance ever. In
:24:47. > :24:53.smaller market towns, if you get the shopping centre right, you have
:24:53. > :24:57.a fantastic mix of independent retailers and it becomes a more
:24:57. > :25:02.sustainable economy. Towns like devisers. So there is nothing to be
:25:02. > :25:07.done. The biggest problem is when there is no link between business
:25:07. > :25:13.rates and the local council can't see so all things that affect the
:25:13. > :25:18.locality, like high street parking, developments, the council has no...
:25:18. > :25:23.What we have to do, I am hoping there will be a consultation next
:25:23. > :25:31.week, is give councils more up lift if they generate... Would that has
:25:31. > :25:35.saved Habitat? We have seen a huge change in shopping patterns and
:25:35. > :25:42.perhaps Habitat is not the strongest there. I suspect a lot of
:25:42. > :25:45.traffic has gone to John Lewis. We need a stronger link between their
:25:45. > :25:49.business community and the local council. Some of this is probably
:25:49. > :25:55.the inevitable shift of market forces but this is still an
:25:55. > :25:59.expensive country in which to be a retailer. We are a rock in the
:25:59. > :26:08.North Sea with 60 million people and leasing property is extremely
:26:08. > :26:14.high. Rents peaked at 2008 and they have come down, except London rents.
:26:14. > :26:19.Prime positions in London, driven by the Olympics. But the recession
:26:19. > :26:23.is an accelerated. That has accelerated the process.
:26:23. > :26:28.Fundamentally it is the rise of e- commerce. It is interesting that
:26:28. > :26:31.the internet is the biggest medium in the UK. It was the second
:26:32. > :26:36.country in the world where we saw the internet surpassed television
:26:36. > :26:44.as the main medium. Denmark was the first country a couple of years ago
:26:44. > :26:47.and the UK was two years ago as well. This is an e-commerce country.
:26:47. > :26:55.Most non-food will be sold over the internet. It will be a mixture. The
:26:55. > :27:02.model will be a mixture... I am the woman who probably does most of the
:27:02. > :27:06.shopping as recreation... Not if you are my husband. By increasing
:27:07. > :27:11.use the internet, that is key. the high street, these jobs are
:27:11. > :27:16.completely the same, the customer experience is terrible, they are
:27:16. > :27:22.dull. Many reporters is trying to make the high Street's more
:27:22. > :27:28.exciting. -- Mary. I don't think it is about the government trying to
:27:28. > :27:32.change these things. The biggest single driver is the fact that this
:27:32. > :27:38.quarter and the previous quarter, retells will continue to fall and
:27:38. > :27:42.that is because of high inflation, increasing taxes and low incomes.
:27:42. > :27:47.It is exactly the same as newspapers. Chopping trees down and
:27:47. > :27:51.distributing newsprint is not a particularly economic the efficient
:27:52. > :27:58.process or environmentally-friendly. If you can download a newspaper, it
:27:58. > :28:06.is much more efficient and cheaper. Newspapers never close because some
:28:06. > :28:11.mug is always ready to buy it. newspapers actually make money. Of
:28:11. > :28:17.course some newspapers are doing badly. But by shifting their models
:28:17. > :28:22.to embrace the new technology, and it is interesting, what is Murdoch
:28:22. > :28:26.in the process of doing? Proving that subscriptions work. Don't we
:28:26. > :28:31.need these retailers to think about their online brand. We have been
:28:31. > :28:37.talking about this for 20 years. Sorry to keep plugging John Lewis...
:28:37. > :28:42.You have done, non-stop! There is a great online presence there.
:28:42. > :28:47.Anyway! We have run out of time. One thing is for sure, the high
:28:47. > :28:51.street will be very different in the next five years. Thanks to our