:00:33. > :00:35.Morning, folks. Welcome to The Daily Politics. I'm at work, are
:00:35. > :00:38.you? Hundreds of thousands of public sector workers aren't.
:00:38. > :00:41.They've taken to the streets angry over proposed changes to their
:00:41. > :00:45.pensions and how long they'll have to work. That's the view in central
:00:45. > :00:47.London, where the main march is about to start. It's estimated
:00:47. > :00:57.750,000 people are taking part in industrial action across the
:00:57. > :00:59.country. Thousands of schools are shut across England and Wales.
:00:59. > :01:04.Government ministers had to cross picket lines in Westminster this
:01:04. > :01:12.morning. The Government says it's still negotiating with the unions.
:01:12. > :01:17.We'll be asking, will there be a compromise? The PM's also on a
:01:17. > :01:24.collision course with his mates in Europe. No surprise there. The EU
:01:24. > :01:28.is calling for an increase in it's budget. Call Me Dave's not happy.
:01:28. > :01:32.Some people call him Red Ed, but is he actually on a mission to turn
:01:32. > :01:42.Labour blue? Or even purple? Are you going colour blind yet?! Ed
:01:42. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :01:51.Miliband's new policy wallah will It could end up a rainbow coalition.
:01:51. > :01:57.I see what you did. All that in the next half hour.
:01:57. > :02:01.With us for the duration, Labour peer, Maurice Glasman.
:02:01. > :02:11.Welcome to the programme, the first time, I think. It is, thank you.
:02:11. > :02:16.
:02:16. > :02:19.He's also personal guru to Ed Before we talk about strikes, let's
:02:19. > :02:22.turn our eyes briefly to events in Europe, because the EU's talking
:02:23. > :02:28.money again. It wants a 5% increase in its budget for the seven years
:02:28. > :02:33.from 2014. This is at a time when national budgets across Europe are
:02:33. > :02:36.being slashed. Not music to the ears of the Government, who called
:02:36. > :02:44.it "completely unrealistic". The Commission is also proposing a
:02:44. > :02:49.Europe-wide VAT levy and a re- working of the UK budget rebate. No
:02:49. > :02:54.doubt Mr Cameron will be looking for Mrs Thatcher's au -- old
:02:54. > :02:59.handbag. What is your view? I think the EU has lost its way, it has
:02:59. > :03:03.become very administrative, liberal and procedural. The vision is there
:03:03. > :03:08.and -- is not there. We have to restore proper democratic politics.
:03:08. > :03:13.A 5% increase, for what? Do you think this government, which often
:03:13. > :03:16.talks tough and doesn't always act tough, will it to draw what they
:03:16. > :03:21.call the red line in Brussels, will there be much bluster and they will
:03:21. > :03:24.walk away from it? I think this government talks tough but is
:03:24. > :03:28.generally weak and quite confused and they will cave. That should
:03:28. > :03:30.cheer them up in Brussels if not in the rest of the country.
:03:30. > :03:33.Picket lines are being set up outside schools, Government
:03:33. > :03:37.buildings, job centres and courts as thousands of public sector
:03:37. > :03:41.workers go on strike over their pensions. The Government estimates
:03:41. > :03:45.that up to one in five of all public sectors workers will strike
:03:45. > :03:55.today. But who exactly is taking action? And what are they angry
:03:55. > :03:57.
:03:58. > :04:02.With some schools closed, we thought we'd give our own lesson
:04:02. > :04:05.this morning. You'll be surprised to hear both sides are claiming
:04:05. > :04:08.victory in the strike today. There are four unions involved in the
:04:08. > :04:13.action, three teaching unions and the Public and Commercial Services
:04:13. > :04:16.Union. According to a Downing Street survey of about 75% of
:04:16. > :04:25.schools in England, around a third will close, a third will be
:04:25. > :04:30.partially closed and a third would be open. In Wales it's believed
:04:30. > :04:32.around 1,000 out of 1,800 are closed. The PCS has about 250,000
:04:32. > :04:39.members, including coastguards, police support workers, court staff
:04:39. > :04:41.and UK border agency staff. Airports are warning of delays,
:04:41. > :04:48.although the Government claims a "vast majority" of courts, job
:04:48. > :04:50.centres and HM Revenue and Customs call centres would remain open. The
:04:50. > :04:54.unions are protesting at planned changes to their pensions which
:04:54. > :05:02.will mean having to work longer, pay more in and receive less in
:05:02. > :05:05.retirement. The Government argues these changes are necessary because
:05:05. > :05:13.the current schemes are unaffordable and says the plans are
:05:13. > :05:17.fair to taxpayers and the public sector. Earlier this morning, I
:05:17. > :05:20.spoke to Christine Blower, who's the general secretary of the NUT. I
:05:20. > :05:28.began by asking her whether it was right to strike when negotiations
:05:28. > :05:30.are continuing. The problem with the talks is that
:05:30. > :05:35.the government haven't been listening to what we have been
:05:35. > :05:39.saying. In the Hutton reports, there are no comments about the
:05:39. > :05:43.pensions being unaffordable. The point is, the government has not
:05:43. > :05:47.done the evaluation of the teachers' pension scheme. Secondly,
:05:48. > :05:52.the cost of public sector pensions is set to fall. Hutton recognises
:05:52. > :05:55.that. Yet the talks from the Government's point of view are all
:05:55. > :05:59.about implementing what they have already put on the table. That
:05:59. > :06:02.simply isn't satisfactory. That is why we have decided to take action,
:06:02. > :06:07.because at last, the media is realising that what we've been
:06:07. > :06:13.saying all along, about the pensions not going broke and not
:06:13. > :06:17.being unsustainable, isn't -- is actually true. Aren't these points
:06:17. > :06:21.that should be raised around the table instead of placards and
:06:22. > :06:25.freezing central London? You saw Benny Alexander saying, this is the
:06:25. > :06:30.bottom line, there are no negotiations about anything other
:06:30. > :06:35.than this. If they were to take the �2.8 billion off the table, which
:06:35. > :06:39.is what they want to put on to the public sector pension scheme, we
:06:39. > :06:43.would have something about which we could discuss. That was our
:06:43. > :06:47.position at the end of January when these talks started. The fact is
:06:47. > :06:51.there has been no move on the central question of affordability.
:06:51. > :06:55.We think it is very important that by taking this action today, we are
:06:55. > :06:58.able to make the case for the fact that Hutton did not say public
:06:58. > :07:02.sector pensions are unaffordable. The government can't demonstrate
:07:02. > :07:05.that they are, because in the case of the teachers' pension scheme,
:07:05. > :07:09.they haven't done the valuation. The how much sympathy do you think
:07:09. > :07:12.there is for your course, particularly from people not on
:07:12. > :07:18.public sector pensions, who have had to take a day of work to look
:07:18. > :07:21.after their kids? Today, we are launching a petition, fair pensions
:07:21. > :07:26.for all. We recognise that in the private sector, there are real
:07:26. > :07:30.problems with pensions. We don't want to be in a race to the bottom.
:07:30. > :07:34.The petition we are launching his for fair pensions across the public
:07:34. > :07:40.sector, the private sector, and a fair state pension. Yes, we believe
:07:40. > :07:44.we are all in this together. Rather different from George Osborne.
:07:44. > :07:47.you disappointed in the stance of the Labour Party? There is no
:07:47. > :07:51.shoulder to shoulder from the leadership, they have distanced
:07:51. > :07:57.themselves from today's action. It would appear to be a backlash even
:07:57. > :08:00.among your firmest allies. I think what Ed Miliband has said is that
:08:00. > :08:04.this is a failure of the system and the government should have been
:08:04. > :08:07.negotiating in good faith. That is what Andy Burnham said in the House
:08:07. > :08:12.of Commons. Of course, there will be Labour MPs who have supported
:08:12. > :08:16.this, I am not going to name them now. The fact is there are people
:08:16. > :08:20.everywhere across society who support us. Even parents who are
:08:20. > :08:24.losing money today, we have had many messages of support from them.
:08:24. > :08:28.You are being selective about the Miliband quote. He also said
:08:28. > :08:33.today's action was a mistake and he is taking great pains to distance
:08:33. > :08:36.himself from it. It is his view that it is a mistake, but not my
:08:36. > :08:40.view, and not the view of the members who are on strike today.
:08:40. > :08:44.Because they know that by taking this action, we are exposing the
:08:44. > :08:48.flaws in the Government's position. If you listen to Justine Greening
:08:48. > :08:52.or Francis Maude, you will see that they can't answer the basic
:08:52. > :08:57.questions. The basic questions are about affordability, and whether
:08:57. > :09:01.the scheme is tenable or not. It's a choice, whether the scheme is
:09:01. > :09:05.tenable or not. We believe we have systems in place, from the
:09:05. > :09:10.arrangements were made in 2007, to be able to maintain the teacher
:09:10. > :09:14.scheme as it is, albeit with a negotiation that contributions may
:09:14. > :09:24.have to go up. But on the basis of the scheme that we negotiated in
:09:24. > :09:24.
:09:24. > :09:27.Apologies for the pictures dropping out.
:09:27. > :09:32.You forgot to put a shilling in the meter.
:09:32. > :09:36.I am not that well off. We are joined by Nick deep, we hope
:09:36. > :09:40.to be joined by the general secretary of the Fire Brigades'
:09:40. > :09:49.Union, Matt Wrack. The government - - we are joined by the Schools
:09:49. > :09:54.Can we clarify what areas are still open to negotiation and compromise?
:09:54. > :09:58.Moving pension increases from the RPI index to the CPI index, which
:09:58. > :10:01.is a tougher index, it doesn't rise by as much as the RPI, though they
:10:01. > :10:05.both go through the roof at the moment. Is that open to
:10:05. > :10:10.negotiation? The issues that are being discussed with the trade
:10:10. > :10:14.unions are about how you implement these different recommendations,
:10:14. > :10:18.recommended by Lord Hutton. There has to be an increase in
:10:18. > :10:23.contributions, there has to be some move on the retirement age, because
:10:23. > :10:28.people are living longer. All those issues are being discussed with the
:10:28. > :10:33.trade unions. I understand that, so I will come back to my question. Is
:10:33. > :10:39.the move from RPI to CPI open to negotiation or not? That decision
:10:39. > :10:44.has been taken. It will be a move to CPI. So it is not? The decision
:10:44. > :10:52.has been taken. By the norms of the English language as I was taught it,
:10:52. > :10:56.that means it is not open to negotiation. I have given the
:10:56. > :11:00.wording as I have given it. What about public sector workers, who
:11:00. > :11:05.often don't make much of a contribution, they are now going to
:11:05. > :11:10.make bigger ones, sometimes 3% more, is that open to negotiation? There
:11:10. > :11:13.has to be a significant increase in the contribution all rate. If these
:11:13. > :11:18.pensions are to be sustainable... This is what Lord Hutton said, he
:11:18. > :11:24.said that given the scheme design, the general public cannot be sure
:11:24. > :11:27.of the sustainability of the pension into the future.
:11:27. > :11:31.understand that. We have heard all this before. I am trying to find
:11:31. > :11:36.out what is still open for negotiation. I take it that
:11:36. > :11:40.increased contributions of up to 3%, maybe more, that is not open to
:11:40. > :11:43.negotiation. How those contributions are allocated across
:11:43. > :11:49.the funds and between employees of different salary levels is what is
:11:49. > :11:54.being discussed. An employee earning under �15,000 a year, we do
:11:54. > :11:57.believe should be making any contributions increase.
:11:57. > :12:01.principle of increased contributions of 3% or more, that
:12:01. > :12:05.is not open to negotiation. concept of increased contributions
:12:05. > :12:14.has to happen, if we are going to keep these pensions sustainable to
:12:14. > :12:18.the future. We want teachers and public service staff to have good
:12:18. > :12:22.pensions, in great contrast to many people in the public -- the private
:12:22. > :12:25.sector who no longer have defined benefits. I know you have to get
:12:25. > :12:29.your talking points out, but I am asking specific questions and we
:12:29. > :12:33.haven't got much time. It would be good if you could stick to the
:12:33. > :12:39.specific answers. Changing the retirement age, up to an extra
:12:39. > :12:43.eight years for some people, not as much for others, a substantial rise
:12:43. > :12:47.in the retirement age, is that open to negotiation? There does have to
:12:47. > :12:52.be a change in the retirement age. One-third of all active members of
:12:52. > :12:56.the teacher pension, are already at retirement age of 65. Given that
:12:56. > :12:59.people are living significant number, it is right that people
:13:00. > :13:04.contribute longer to the Pensions Scheme, if they are to be
:13:04. > :13:07.sustainable. What you have just told us is that there maybe a lot
:13:07. > :13:11.to talk about, negotiations are going on, but on the core
:13:11. > :13:15.principles of switching from RPI to CPI, increasing contributions by 3%
:13:15. > :13:20.or more, and changing the retirement age up to an extra eight
:13:20. > :13:24.years, these three core principles are not open for negotiation.
:13:24. > :13:28.they are implemented is the issue. That is not the issue, ministers. I
:13:28. > :13:32.am saying, are they open for negotiation or not as core
:13:32. > :13:35.principles. I think you have told your viewers that they are not.
:13:35. > :13:39.they are implemented, the extent they are implemented, is what is
:13:39. > :13:43.being discussed with the trade unions, this Monday for two hours,
:13:43. > :13:47.resuming again next week. Which is why we believe that going on strike
:13:47. > :13:51.is premature, while these negotiations are going on. I am
:13:51. > :13:55.sorry, Minister. I can understand there are issues of process. Let's
:13:55. > :14:00.take the idea that some people's retirement age may have to go up by
:14:00. > :14:04.eight extra years. Is that open to negotiation? The way you put it, it
:14:04. > :14:08.is as though somebody who is 64 will be working until they are 72.
:14:08. > :14:13.No, I am not. There is a transitional period for all of this
:14:13. > :14:16.and all the crude rights will be maintained. Nobody need fear that
:14:16. > :14:20.the money they have put into their pension will change as a
:14:20. > :14:26.consequence -- all the accrued rights. None of this will come in
:14:26. > :14:30.before 2015, there will be plenty of time for it to be implemented.
:14:30. > :14:34.will have one more go. Is it open to negotiation that some people in
:14:34. > :14:38.their 50s, mainly women as I understand it, at some stage, under
:14:38. > :14:41.the current plans, their retirement age increases by eight years. What
:14:41. > :14:47.they had planned to retire on and what they will, under your
:14:47. > :14:50.proposals, will change by eight years, is that open to negotiation?
:14:50. > :14:54.How it is implemented is what is matters, that will determine the
:14:54. > :14:57.precise retirement age of any individual, the transition period.
:14:57. > :15:01.We have said that people can still retire at the age they were
:15:01. > :15:09.expecting to, but there may be an actuary the adjusted figure that
:15:09. > :15:12.applies to their pension. I believe the unions are issuing
:15:12. > :15:16.scaremongering statements about the consequences of these reforms, and
:15:16. > :15:20.that is what the negotiations are about. We understand the passions
:15:20. > :15:23.teachers have for their profession, we want to maintain good-quality
:15:23. > :15:27.pensions in the teaching profession. It is part of the overall package
:15:27. > :15:37.for people working in the public sector, and that is what we want to
:15:37. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:43.You have described what the Government is doing as vicious.
:15:43. > :15:50.That is a 1970s word, it is doing what a Labour government would have
:15:50. > :15:54.had to do and what a former Labour minister said had to be done.
:15:54. > :16:00.last government did significantly changed pensions and we did not
:16:00. > :16:04.like those. But we were told in 2006 that the changes make would
:16:04. > :16:10.make public sector pensions affordable for the long term. That
:16:10. > :16:16.is why we consider this vicious. Horton said affordability has to be
:16:17. > :16:23.measured by the share of GDP going to pension liabilities -- the Lord
:16:23. > :16:28.Hutton. This is a nonsense. Given that average public-sector pay it
:16:29. > :16:32.in this country is higher than average pay and the private sector,
:16:32. > :16:36.from the office of National Statistics, why should those in the
:16:36. > :16:42.private sector with poor pensions have to pay more for those and the
:16:42. > :16:45.public sector with good pensions? Every year, another �10 billion is
:16:45. > :16:50.added to public spending from private sector taxes to pay for
:16:50. > :16:55.your pension, why should you not contribute more? We want decent
:16:55. > :17:01.pensions for everybody. This Government has created a nasty and
:17:01. > :17:06.vicious attempt to divide people in both sectors. Most have family
:17:06. > :17:10.members in both. I have a member of my family on strike today as a
:17:10. > :17:14.teacher and others in the private sector, we reject this idea the
:17:14. > :17:22.government is creating. Because they have taken it away from people
:17:22. > :17:26.in the private sector, they want to take it away from you. It is an
:17:26. > :17:30.outrageous and nasty attack by the government. It is not the
:17:30. > :17:35.Conservative government that has seen private pensions slight to the
:17:35. > :17:40.bottom, Mr Brown took 100 and -- �100 billion out of private sector
:17:41. > :17:45.provision. I do not care who did it, it is disgraceful what happens to
:17:45. > :17:52.workers in the private sector and I support them trying to defend their
:17:52. > :17:58.pensions. Lord Hutton has made it clear we want good-quality pensions.
:17:58. > :18:03.Take teachers' pensions, this year it cost �7 billion a year and by
:18:03. > :18:11.2014 it will be 10 billion, so we need to take measures to keep these
:18:11. > :18:16.as high quality pensions that our sustainable into the future. You
:18:16. > :18:23.referred to the paragraph in the Hutton report saying it is 1.5% of
:18:23. > :18:29.GDP, but he says that depends on the assumptions you use for life
:18:29. > :18:37.expectancy, size of workforce. Every assumption and sup with less
:18:37. > :18:43.than 1.9% of GDP last year -- ends up with. But that was before that.
:18:43. > :18:48.It was 1.5% in 1999, we are trained to get it to a level that is
:18:49. > :18:52.sustainable in the long term -- we are trying to. We cannot be sure it
:18:52. > :18:55.will be sustainable in the future unless we make the recommended
:18:55. > :19:02.reforms. It Lord Hutton was a Labour minister dealing with
:19:02. > :19:08.pensions. I understand what he did. Maurice Glasman, you have been
:19:08. > :19:12.patient. If this is right, a vicious attack on ordinary workers,
:19:12. > :19:19.why does the Leader of the Labour Party say these strikes are wrong
:19:19. > :19:22.at a time when negotiations are going on? We have not yet built up
:19:22. > :19:28.the organisation and the support and the mobilisation, the
:19:28. > :19:38.compelling alternative. This can be portrayed as a defence of the
:19:38. > :19:38.
:19:39. > :19:43.status quo. Why does he not support the workers as Labour leader?
:19:43. > :19:49.this is the result of is the complete dishonour of teachers. So
:19:49. > :19:58.where is the mutualisation with the public sector? You do not trust
:19:58. > :20:03.teachers. Teachers have no sense of vocation, no sense of respect. You
:20:03. > :20:07.have a teacher who is 50 Yate and have been wonderful and served the
:20:07. > :20:11.children, in your scheme, there is no recognition of good teachers all
:20:11. > :20:15.those who have given everything to the children. And now she is
:20:15. > :20:25.looking at less money, working longer, you have really dishonoured
:20:25. > :20:26.
:20:26. > :20:32.the teachers and no part of your scheme... Do you see this, you
:20:32. > :20:37.are... I am an an old-fashioned socialist. Do you see this as a
:20:37. > :20:42.political challenge? I think members, I think they are very
:20:42. > :20:50.careful about what they do. They study the details of the government.
:20:50. > :20:56.Do you see it? Pay and pensions of public sector which has -- workers
:20:56. > :21:01.are a key political debate in Britain today. I know you have a
:21:01. > :21:04.busy day, so thank you for being here.
:21:04. > :21:07.Now, we all know blue stands for Conservative. Yellow stands for
:21:07. > :21:17.Liberal Democrat and Red is Labour. But moves are afoot in the Labour
:21:17. > :21:29.
:21:29. > :21:32.Party to change all that. Max Hello, today, we are talking about
:21:33. > :21:38.callers. Weather blew his Conservative, whether read his
:21:38. > :21:47.radical or whether Green is green - - blue. Let's look at the pictures
:21:47. > :21:51.you have been sending the and four hour gallery. David Cameron -- sent
:21:51. > :21:58.us in for the gallery. David Cameron does not like this as much
:21:58. > :22:04.as this, the Red Tory. It is about Big Society. Nick Clegg has been
:22:04. > :22:08.working on this for some time, it is the Orange book and it is a
:22:08. > :22:17.homage to economic liberalism. This is the purple book, from the New
:22:17. > :22:23.Labour think tank. The idea is blue Conservatism meets read socialism.
:22:23. > :22:29.But we are here to talk about the work of Ed Miliband. This is Blue
:22:29. > :22:33.Labour, but he has had a bit of help. Marks tears was -- Mark
:22:33. > :22:39.Stears was at Oxford with Ed Miliband and is one of the
:22:39. > :22:44.architects of New Labour. Something went wrong with Tony Brown -- Tony
:22:45. > :22:49.Blair and Gordon Brown. Labour was so far out of touch with the public.
:22:49. > :22:53.Labour did not resonate with the public. So it came up with a plan
:22:53. > :22:58.of doing politics by stealth, to redistribute by stealth and
:22:58. > :23:02.increase people's right. For a lot of the time, of New Labour was
:23:02. > :23:07.doing things behind closed doors rather than saying, this is what we
:23:07. > :23:11.think, this is what we think, how can we find a common good? Blue
:23:11. > :23:16.Labour wants to reconnect with working class voters who feel
:23:16. > :23:20.alienated. They want to on a family, faith and community. Policy
:23:20. > :23:24.relating to immigration and minority rates were not be swept
:23:24. > :23:29.under the carpet, and Blue Labour wheat to the private sector and not
:23:29. > :23:35.state to weed growth and provide jobs. This man likes some of the
:23:35. > :23:39.stuff, but there are plenty of reservations. Some of the rhetoric
:23:39. > :23:44.suggests the people cannot see anything good that new Labour did
:23:44. > :23:49.in power for 13 years. And that is unfortunate. Some of the colour-
:23:49. > :23:53.coded names like Blue Labour, and the purple book, they disconcert
:23:53. > :24:00.ordinary party members because it sounds like because you are moving
:24:00. > :24:10.away from the Labour Party must back read that you are going to
:24:10. > :24:17.ditch values -- the Labour party's red. Politics, branding is
:24:17. > :24:20.everything, and this is like asking Manchester it United to play in the
:24:20. > :24:22.kicked of Manchester City. -- Manchester United.
:24:23. > :24:32.We're now joined by Danny Finkelstein, of the Times, and
:24:33. > :24:33.
:24:33. > :24:38.Maurice Glasman, of course, to talk about Blue Labour.
:24:38. > :24:46.So many viewers do not know what Blue Labour is about. What is the
:24:46. > :24:52.main difference between Blue Labour and New Labour? It has disrespect
:24:52. > :24:57.for the managerial are some and has more on a for the workforce. So if
:24:57. > :25:03.you talk about schooling, we would like to see parents have a third of
:25:03. > :25:09.the power and teachers and the state or local authority, and
:25:09. > :25:16.negotiate a common good. New Labour look for managerial solutions in
:25:16. > :25:21.the private sector that led to the banking collapse, and to the public
:25:21. > :25:27.sector... We but people and relationships first. What is the
:25:27. > :25:32.difference between Blue Labour and Old Labour? There is a distrust of
:25:32. > :25:37.the Keynesian economics. The idea you get a few people that worked at
:25:37. > :25:43.Oxford and put them in the Treasury and it will be all right.
:25:43. > :25:47.Miliband also did PPE at Oxford, so did his brother and Ed Balls.
:25:47. > :25:51.there is a problem with the way working class leaders have --
:25:51. > :25:56.working-class readers have not come through, we have become to
:25:56. > :26:01.managerial. People who have not had the experience of life. If you look
:26:01. > :26:07.at Bevan, they Union was their teacher and they would great
:26:07. > :26:12.teachers. The difference between old and new is that we rejected the
:26:12. > :26:17.nationalisation model. And we are very interested in the German
:26:17. > :26:24.social market economy, particularly in vocation. What do you make of
:26:24. > :26:28.this? Some of it is good, some of it is right. Some of it makes the
:26:28. > :26:32.Labour recognise issues they did not recognise enough empower. But I
:26:32. > :26:37.am worried it sounds quite nostalgic and it moves the Labour
:26:37. > :26:41.Party towards a class analysis. A lot of talk about respecting the
:26:41. > :26:46.working class or public servants, I am in favour of respecting
:26:46. > :26:51.everybody, but with an issue like pensions, it is about distributing
:26:51. > :26:55.money between one person and another. So the respect you showed
:26:55. > :26:59.teachers are increasing their pensions is disrespect you show to
:26:59. > :27:04.security guards charging them to pay for it. So there are
:27:04. > :27:13.distribution issues. There are a lot of be questioned. New Labour
:27:13. > :27:18.believes in distribution of income? Do not be too anxious! People keep
:27:18. > :27:28.going, I am really worried. Read it carefully and do not drum -- jump
:27:28. > :27:28.
:27:28. > :27:34.to premature conclusions. This is just crazy. Security guards,
:27:35. > :27:44.cleaners and cooks is my central concern, so to talk about not being
:27:45. > :27:48.
:27:48. > :27:56.concerned about living wage... Naturally. This is just wrong!
:27:56. > :27:59.There is no nostalgia. Naturally, you have respect. But Arab
:27:59. > :28:04.distributional questions and I do not think you have sold those --
:28:04. > :28:09.but there are. And talking about respect for working people, there
:28:09. > :28:12.were people he sustained Labour full sums to -- for some time in
:28:12. > :28:18.power and Tony Blair's concentration on middle-class is
:28:18. > :28:23.help they stayed in power. And I am middle class. I am in favour of the
:28:23. > :28:33.German model that favours both sides, there has to be a big change
:28:33. > :28:34.
:28:34. > :28:44.in the way we conceptualise public funds... I am sorry we have had to
:28:44. > :28:44.
:28:44. > :28:51.rush this. These are some pictures of what is happening, that is the
:28:51. > :28:54.march in central London. Thanks to our guests. I'll be back tonight
:28:54. > :28:56.for This Week with the author Michael Rosen, Adam Boulton and