06/07/2011

:00:22. > :00:27.Good morning, this is the Daily Politics. Tabloid journalism in the

:00:28. > :00:31.dock. More damaging allegations over phone hacking at News of the

:00:31. > :00:33.World. Claims that its former editor, Andy Coulson, once David

:00:33. > :00:38.Cameron's right-hand man, authorised payments to police

:00:38. > :00:44.officers. Where will it all end? MPs debate the whole affair this

:00:44. > :00:48.afternoon. We'll have the latest. Who wants to take on David Cameron

:00:48. > :00:54.at PMQs? Last week it was The Speaker. This week, will Ed make

:00:55. > :00:57.more of a mark? Join us for all the live action at midday. We celebrate

:00:57. > :01:02.the achievements of the House of Commons Backbench Business

:01:02. > :01:12.Committee. It is not as boring as it sounds. In fact, quite the

:01:12. > :01:22.opposite. And what do the French do best? Strike of course. PY Gerbeau

:01:22. > :01:23.

:01:23. > :01:32.tells us why we should not be Yes, all that and more coming up in

:01:32. > :01:35.the next 90 minutes of TV wizardry at its best. And with us for the

:01:35. > :01:43.duration, we have the Voldermort and Dumbledore of political thought.

:01:43. > :01:45.I leave it to you to decide which is which. Yes, with us today is

:01:45. > :01:51.Tony Blair's former Director of Communications, Alistair Campbell,

:01:51. > :01:55.and the former Shadow Home Secretary, David Davis. Now first

:01:55. > :02:05.let's turn our attention to a story that caught our eye on page six of

:02:05. > :02:11.

:02:11. > :02:14.It may be a good day to very bad news. Because, this afternoon, the

:02:14. > :02:17.House of Commons is to hold an emergency debate about the News of

:02:17. > :02:25.the World phone hacking controversy - a story we covered in depth

:02:25. > :02:32.yesterday. New allegations have emerged overnight and this morning.

:02:32. > :02:38.Anita has more. The pressure is piling up on Rupert Murdoch's News

:02:38. > :02:41.International. We already know of allegations that Milly Dowler's

:02:41. > :02:44.phone was hacked and now it has been alleged the parents of the

:02:44. > :02:50.murdered Soham girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, may have also

:02:50. > :02:53.had their phones intercepted. It has also been revealed that at

:02:53. > :03:03.least one family of one of the 7/7 bombing victims has been contacted

:03:03. > :03:07.by the police and told their phone may have been hacked. Another

:03:07. > :03:10.parent has said he was contacted. But that's not all, News

:03:10. > :03:12.International have now confirmed that they have handed emails over

:03:13. > :03:17.to an investigation which allegedly shows former News of the World

:03:17. > :03:20.Editor, Andy Coulson, authorised payments to the police. This brings

:03:20. > :03:22.the saga right to the door of David Cameron as Mr Coulson was

:03:22. > :03:27.previously the Prime Minister's Director of Communications before

:03:27. > :03:30.he resigned. The allegations also heap pressure on Rebekah Brooks,

:03:30. > :03:32.now a senior executive at News International, who was Editor of

:03:32. > :03:39.News of the World when the voicemails of Milly Dowler were

:03:39. > :03:44.allegedly intercepted. But it is not just News International

:03:44. > :03:47.newspapers who are making the headlines. Along with the Sun, the

:03:47. > :03:54.Daily Mirror has been charged with contempt of court over stories

:03:54. > :03:57.published following the murder of Jo Yeates. Little wonder perhaps

:03:57. > :04:07.that a recent MORI poll on public trust found that only 19% of people

:04:07. > :04:15.

:04:15. > :04:18.They trust presenters a bit more. We're joined now by the former

:04:18. > :04:23.Chairman of the Conservative Party, Norman Fowler, who has been calling

:04:23. > :04:28.for an urgent independent inquiry into how the media operates. You'd

:04:28. > :04:36.do not, at the moment, look as if you're going to get your way, am I

:04:36. > :04:41.right? I think you are probably wrong. I have been doing this for

:04:41. > :04:46.six months. Bit by bit the Government has been edging towards

:04:46. > :04:52.it. Yesterday, a minister said in the House of Lords they were not

:04:52. > :04:56.actually going to rule it out. I think we will get it. I do not

:04:56. > :05:05.understand why the Government does not do it. They have said they have

:05:05. > :05:12.to wait for the police inquiry. Are they right to do that? Yes. You can

:05:12. > :05:18.announce it now that after the police inquiries are ended and the

:05:18. > :05:24.court cases have come to an end, then you can do that. It should go

:05:24. > :05:30.much wider than News of the World and phone hacking. We have

:05:30. > :05:35.discussed in the use of private investigations, the links between

:05:35. > :05:41.police and private investigators have - it is criminality at

:05:41. > :05:46.virtually every level of newspapers. Norman has been pushing on this for

:05:46. > :05:51.some time. The press has been in denial. If David Cameron has any

:05:51. > :05:59.sense, he will announce a wide- ranging inquiry to take place as

:05:59. > :06:05.soon as it is practical. Who could do it? It is difficult to think of

:06:05. > :06:10.anyone above you, or below. Personally I think it has almost

:06:10. > :06:16.got to a point where you need a judicial inquiry. You need the

:06:16. > :06:22.ability of the Chairman of the inquiry to subpoena people, bring

:06:22. > :06:30.them in and put them under oath. the media, we think judges are

:06:30. > :06:35.hostile to the press. You sometimes think that. If it has got to carry

:06:35. > :06:42.public support, then I think if you put a judge in charge of it, and

:06:42. > :06:49.other people who are expert in this area, then I think you get the best

:06:49. > :06:59.possible service. It has to have investigative capabilities. It will

:06:59. > :07:00.

:07:00. > :07:05.not happen soon. We did announce an inquiry. Here you have at least one

:07:05. > :07:11.criminal event, if it is true, paying policeman is a criminal

:07:12. > :07:19.offence. Most of this hacking is a criminal offence. The three of you

:07:19. > :07:24.want an inquiry. How much of a mistake was it for David Cameron to

:07:24. > :07:34.hire and Nicholson as spin-doctor in opposition and then make him

:07:34. > :07:38.head of communications? -- Andy Coulson. He knew he had been

:07:38. > :07:46.involved and it appeared he did the honourable thing and step down.

:07:46. > :07:52.knew there was a hacking investigation. I do not think he

:07:52. > :07:56.could walk away at that point. he established eyeball to or --

:07:56. > :08:06.eyeball to eyeball that nothing would emerged that was potentially

:08:06. > :08:06.

:08:06. > :08:10.embarrassing, I can never be clear that that happened. We do know that

:08:10. > :08:16.step-by-step it has become more serious. It was not on the scale it

:08:16. > :08:22.is now. It has gone from the Westminster wine bars to every pub

:08:23. > :08:28.in the learned. This week it has been avalanche. We have some

:08:28. > :08:33.breaking news with Nick Robinson. He has been working hard this

:08:33. > :08:36.morning. Welcome to the programme earlier than usual on a Wednesday.

:08:36. > :08:42.I understand that News International executives have

:08:42. > :08:46.uncovered what they believed to be evidence of who in the organisation

:08:46. > :08:52.sanctioned and commissioned the hacking off the phone off Milly

:08:52. > :08:55.Dowler. You remember that Rebekah Brooks, the chief executive officer

:08:55. > :09:00.of News International, said when this revelation came out that she

:09:00. > :09:06.was shocked and appalled, I am told the evidence does not point to her.

:09:06. > :09:10.They did do a documentary will, and evidence trawl, including e-mail

:09:10. > :09:16.from within the organisation and they believe they have pieced

:09:16. > :09:20.together the jigsaw of who Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator

:09:20. > :09:26.who apologised yesterday, who exactly he was dealing with and on

:09:26. > :09:36.what basis. Instant mate we want to know who that is was Doug News

:09:36. > :09:40.International are not going to save. I cannot say because I do not know.

:09:40. > :09:49.I am not hinting it is Andy Coulson because I have no evidence to

:09:49. > :09:53.suggest it was him. He has always denied some wrongdoing. News

:09:53. > :09:57.International believe they know pretty clearly who was involved.

:09:57. > :10:01.You would assume they would have to discipline someone if they were

:10:01. > :10:07.still on the staff or if they do not discipline someone, they are

:10:07. > :10:11.suggesting it is someone who already left the building. It is

:10:11. > :10:19.clear that deputy heads must roll. When deputy head's role, they have

:10:19. > :10:22.a habit of telling you what the boss told you. It is not

:10:22. > :10:28.necessarily a get out of jail card for Rebekah Wade because it

:10:28. > :10:32.happened on her watch and it may have been one of her senior

:10:32. > :10:36.executives. What is interesting about that is the phrase, happened

:10:36. > :10:43.on her watch. And Nicholson resigned as editor of News of the

:10:43. > :10:48.World insisting that he did not know anything about phone hacking.

:10:48. > :10:53.-- Andy Coulson. He had to go because it happened on his watch.

:10:53. > :10:58.Rebekah Brooks does not regard that as a precedent that, in that case,

:10:58. > :11:04.someone had gone to prison - the royal reporter of the News of the

:11:04. > :11:07.World. She is not planning to resign simply because it happened

:11:07. > :11:12.on her watch. She said it was inconceivable she knew about it at

:11:12. > :11:18.the time. There is still a determination she will continue to

:11:18. > :11:23.lead to this company. The owners of this company - its shareholders -

:11:23. > :11:27.will have to contemplate whether she credibly can continue to lead

:11:27. > :11:33.both the investigation and the company when it is coming in for

:11:33. > :11:36.such huge criticism. All eyes will be on what David Cameron has to say

:11:36. > :11:45.at Prime Minister's questions in a few minutes' time about the scandal

:11:45. > :11:51.as a whole and about Andy Coulson. Just briefly on that, there is

:11:51. > :11:57.remarkable revelation that came out last night, I forget when but News

:11:57. > :12:02.International itself has handed over at e-mails to the police

:12:02. > :12:08.purporting to show that Andy Coulson was making substantial

:12:08. > :12:13.payments to the police itself. What do we know about that? We know that

:12:13. > :12:18.is what happened. News International handed over those e-

:12:18. > :12:23.mails. Why do we know it? Vanity Fair approached News International

:12:23. > :12:27.and they had the story saying that News International were withholding

:12:27. > :12:31.the e-mails. They said they were so determined to clear their name on

:12:31. > :12:37.at least the issue of co-operating with the police, they decided to

:12:37. > :12:40.confirm that many weeks ago they did indeed hand over e-mails that

:12:40. > :12:44.allegedly showed there were a series of payments to the police

:12:44. > :12:50.sanctioned by Andy Coulson when he was editor of News of the World. It

:12:50. > :12:54.makes it a more political story than it was before. I do not know

:12:54. > :12:59.what the Prime Minister will say. I am clear there is a mood change

:12:59. > :13:04.among those people around David Cameron. They realise it will no

:13:04. > :13:09.longer do to simply say it is a police matter, wait for the

:13:09. > :13:15.evidence to be uncovered. Thank you very much. If Vanity Fair can get

:13:15. > :13:19.stories, there will be a lot coming up. If the distinction is that

:13:19. > :13:27.somebody went to prison, I will be astonished when it is concluded,

:13:27. > :13:35.that a lot of people... If it is right to send someone to prison for

:13:36. > :13:39.hacking into a royal... Most people think that it is bad. We had all

:13:39. > :13:45.these stories from News International. They have had a

:13:46. > :13:50.thorough investigation. They have looked at the e-mails. Every time

:13:50. > :13:54.they are back on the defensive, they find new e-mails. I believe

:13:54. > :14:01.what has happened is because we have Prime Minister's Questions and

:14:01. > :14:10.there is the MPs debate, they want big brokers to switch to David

:14:10. > :14:16.Cameron and Andy Coulson. -- the focus. Can Rebekah Brooks survive?

:14:16. > :14:22.I think it will be very difficult. If Rupert Murdoch wants to touch

:14:22. > :14:29.things out, he well. It has now reached a position where, if I had

:14:29. > :14:35.been in the back of a cab with all the people that had been involved,

:14:35. > :14:44.they're all talking about it. It has reached eight tipping point.

:14:44. > :14:52.is embarrassing for David Cameron because of his relation with Andy

:14:52. > :14:58.Coulson. You supped with these people as well? At times. So were

:14:58. > :15:05.you, so were the BBC. Throughout the time of Tony Blair in Downing

:15:05. > :15:11.Street, I was there once. Rebekah Wade was there more than once.

:15:11. > :15:16.was Rupert Murdoch. You were very close. You are both just as bad.

:15:16. > :15:21.That makes the point. The worst thing that can happen is it becomes

:15:21. > :15:26.a party political debate. As you rightly say, both parties have been

:15:26. > :15:32.guilty of getting too near to the Rupert Murdoch press in all kinds

:15:32. > :15:38.of ways. What one needs to do is look at the issue itself which is

:15:38. > :15:42.the abuse of power. I do agree with that. Latterly towards the end of

:15:42. > :15:48.the Tony Blair pecked -- Premiership, I was adding that the

:15:48. > :15:51.press had become a real problem. Tony should be thinking about doing

:15:52. > :15:57.something. He always said the public cared more about health and

:15:57. > :16:02.education and jobs and it was not the parity. David Cameron now has

:16:02. > :16:07.to show some leadership on this. The public has accepted the press

:16:07. > :16:14.they get is not the press they deserve. The mood has changed. Nick

:16:14. > :16:22.is right about that. Up until a short time ago, less than 24 hours

:16:22. > :16:27.ago, people were still talking in terms of this is simply a media...

:16:27. > :16:30.David Cameron told me he was not going to do to Rupert Murdoch what

:16:30. > :16:34.Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had done. Within six months he is

:16:34. > :16:44.doing exactly that. It seems the political leaders of our country

:16:44. > :16:46.feel they cannot run this country There is little doubt that the

:16:47. > :16:54.pressure on any Prime Minister is to talk to these people more than

:16:54. > :16:57.they should. Can I make one other point? Of course the pressure is

:16:57. > :17:01.building but the risk in politics is when the pressure gets massively

:17:01. > :17:09.on to one side and we have a free press and must be very careful that

:17:09. > :17:17.the swing the other way does not become one of over-regulation.

:17:17. > :17:20.is fine, as long as that inquiry includes, and I agree in principle,

:17:20. > :17:26.that that inquiry includes the Press Complaints Commission and

:17:27. > :17:31.what those powers and functions are. This has been going on for years.

:17:31. > :17:34.As I said to the leader of the Press Complaints Commission

:17:34. > :17:42.yesterday, the report said if Sega Red Ed - aka self-regulation did

:17:42. > :17:47.not work, we must move to statutory. In principle I still support self-

:17:47. > :17:51.regulation but yesterday, you're interview showed why the Press

:17:51. > :17:57.Complaints Commission has become such a joke. It is a body of the

:17:57. > :18:04.press and for the press. Any inquiry has to have investigative

:18:04. > :18:09.powers but policy, including what system of regulation replaces this.

:18:09. > :18:13.Dare I say said, these issues that have come up, they're far too big

:18:13. > :18:20.for any self-regulating organisation, this is about police

:18:20. > :18:25.not doing their job, accepting criminal action. There has always

:18:25. > :18:29.been a grey area in the press were we accept there is public interest

:18:29. > :18:32.for buying stolen material. And people have not objected to this

:18:32. > :18:36.because of the public interest but what has happened is police have

:18:36. > :18:41.stepped back completely and except that the police -- press can do

:18:41. > :18:45.what they want. This is bigger than any self-regulatory operation.

:18:45. > :18:51.Would anyone want the sun or the News of the World having an

:18:51. > :18:59.endorsement for the next election? Let me just say something. We did

:18:59. > :19:03.not win the election in 1987 because of the Sun. Or 1992? Even

:19:03. > :19:13.on that, we did not lose the election in 1982. I have myself

:19:13. > :19:18.said the Sun likes to be on the winning side. But that begs the

:19:18. > :19:26.question, why were you so close? In your darkest hour, the days after

:19:26. > :19:31.the death of David Kelly, who said to you, you have done nothing wrong,

:19:31. > :19:34.just hang in and don't give them the satisfaction? Rebekah Wade.

:19:34. > :19:44.was a press and communications person and it would be ordered by

:19:44. > :19:49.was not speaking to journalists. That is a personal message. I know.

:19:49. > :19:53.Painting to Downing Street endlessly... Lots of people... I am

:19:53. > :19:58.not saying they do not matter, I say that their influence and

:19:58. > :20:03.standing is overstated, not least by themselves. The son marketed

:20:03. > :20:07.themselves as the endorsement for the election. Of course it

:20:07. > :20:11.matters... Weather David Cameron not win a majority of with

:20:11. > :20:16.virtually all the press behind him? He if you have one organisation

:20:16. > :20:19.that controls almost 40% of the press, it is inevitable that that

:20:19. > :20:24.matters for political leaders, we must be realistic. We have not got

:20:24. > :20:34.time for the rights and wrongs. At the very least, should the

:20:34. > :20:34.

:20:34. > :20:39.Government delay the Murdoch bid for BSkyB? Yes. Yes. And on that

:20:39. > :20:46.uncharacteristic and shock unanimity, we must move on. You are

:20:46. > :20:52.being held hostage. Norman Fowler, the release you! Fascinating

:20:52. > :20:58.discussion. We will go to another. I don't want any doubt out there.

:20:58. > :21:05.The very well-known statutory instruments committee. It is a body

:21:05. > :21:08.we like to keep close tabs on every now and then. Stop that! Yesterday

:21:08. > :21:10.the members backed a proposal to make extra loans worth around �9

:21:10. > :21:14.billion available to the International Monetary Fund to fund

:21:14. > :21:17.the bailout of Greece. However, Labour members voted no and a group

:21:17. > :21:25.of Conservative non-members gate- crashed the meeting to vent their

:21:25. > :21:28.fury at the plans. Because of the vote in favour, the proposal should

:21:28. > :21:31.go to what's known as a silent vote in the house, but the rebels

:21:31. > :21:41.haven't given up hope and one of the chief troublemakers, the

:21:41. > :21:43.

:21:43. > :21:49.Conservative MP, Douglas Carswell, joins us now. Before we learn about

:21:49. > :21:52.the noise you'll make, tell us what happened yesterday. These

:21:52. > :21:55.committees are normally very staid affairs and the powers that be

:21:55. > :22:00.expect to get business through. On lot of none committee members who

:22:00. > :22:03.felt strongly about this, and you can buy long-term care for older

:22:03. > :22:06.folk with that money and it is wrong to increase the subscription

:22:06. > :22:11.in this way. We turned up to say what we thought our constituents

:22:11. > :22:14.would like us to say. I'm very pleased that on the strength of the

:22:14. > :22:18.argument, Labour voted against these proposals and there will be a

:22:18. > :22:23.ballot of the whole house. Short of making a racket about this, you

:22:23. > :22:28.will not be able to change anything? I am not so sure. There

:22:28. > :22:32.is a fundamental problem, the IMF seems to preside over the first be

:22:32. > :22:37.like in history that has involved ladling more water into the boat.

:22:37. > :22:42.Traditionally, the IMF has followed the principle of what you might

:22:42. > :22:47.call devaluation of the currency, defaulting on debt and downsizing

:22:47. > :22:52.the public sector. Yet, in the Eurozone, it does the opposite and

:22:52. > :22:57.by coughing up �9.2 billion, we allow this problem to be made worse.

:22:57. > :23:01.That is an issue of real concern. Thank you very much. Let's turn to

:23:01. > :23:06.the panel. Is there any justification for giving this money

:23:06. > :23:10.to the IMF when they needed so badly at home? I have not follow

:23:10. > :23:15.the argument they had yesterday but I can see circumstances when it

:23:15. > :23:21.would be, yes. Even though we have the obligation, you would say...?

:23:21. > :23:25.Should we? I can see circumstances were we could. Just because we have

:23:25. > :23:29.massive problems domestically, it does not mean you don't have

:23:29. > :23:33.international obligations. I did not follow the debate yesterday but

:23:33. > :23:38.I can see circumstances were that could be the case. Labour MPs say

:23:38. > :23:42.no, we hate this. They were at this and they are across the argument.

:23:42. > :23:48.You asked me the question if I could see the circumstances and I

:23:48. > :23:52.say yes, I can. I am trying to find out whether, even though we have

:23:52. > :23:57.the obligation, if we should be able to back out gracefully? Is it

:23:57. > :24:00.morally wrong to give this money away? The Treasury minister today

:24:00. > :24:05.said we have to pay this money or we will lose a receipt at the table.

:24:05. > :24:10.It must be the most expensive armchair in history. The truth is,

:24:10. > :24:14.the IMF should not do this, they should leave it to the ECB. The

:24:14. > :24:17.real point is that bailing out something, bailing out a country

:24:17. > :24:24.and actually softening the blow for the country, the country must take

:24:24. > :24:31.measures itself to bring its own economy under control. There are

:24:31. > :24:35.strings attached and you have listened to this. Yes... My point

:24:35. > :24:42.is we cannot separate the globalised economy and domestic and

:24:42. > :24:46.international. Very briefly, do we keep that seat at the table at any

:24:46. > :24:51.cost? Of course, we do not keep the seat at any cost but we must take

:24:51. > :24:54.the arguments on its merits. I have not followed this argument, I say

:24:54. > :25:01.that we do have as a big international player, we must

:25:01. > :25:05.recognise this. Thank you but very much for being with us. Reports are

:25:05. > :25:08.coming to us that this might be the last we see of Speaker Bercow for a

:25:08. > :25:11.while. Stop crying at the back! After the robust exchanges between

:25:11. > :25:14.him and the Prime Minister last week, an aide to David Cameron has

:25:14. > :25:21.suggested John Bercow could now be off to Afghanistan to take part in

:25:21. > :25:25.a job swap with the speaker of the Afghan parliament. No doubt Channel

:25:25. > :25:29.4 will have a reality show on this! Lucky old him. Apparently, Mr

:25:29. > :25:33.Bercow says he'll only go if he can take a Daily Politics mug with him.

:25:33. > :25:38.But he hasn't got one, so he'll have to enter this week's Guess the

:25:38. > :25:48.Year competition. Yes, indeed. Hope you're watching carefully, Mr

:25:48. > :26:04.

:26:04. > :26:14.Speaker. We are on iPlayer! Can you There is so much harassment, we

:26:14. > :26:28.

:26:28. > :26:38.None of the members of the commission are Marxist and the

:26:38. > :26:44.

:26:44. > :26:54.arguments on the report are well- A Labour council hiring taxis to

:26:54. > :26:57.

:26:57. > :27:07.scuttle around the city and hand It is ideal for shopping, any

:27:07. > :27:16.

:27:16. > :27:19.To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your

:27:19. > :27:22.answer to our special quiz email address. That's dpquiz@bbc.co.uk.

:27:22. > :27:29.You can see the full terms and conditions for Guess the Year on

:27:29. > :27:39.our website, bbc.co.uk/dailypolitics. Are used

:27:39. > :27:42.

:27:42. > :27:46.during his tea for him? Cross- party! -- are used during his tea?

:27:46. > :27:50.Anyway, enough of this trivia! It's coming up to midday. Just take a

:27:50. > :27:53.look at Big Ben. That can mean only one thing: Yes, Prime Minister's

:27:53. > :27:59.Questions is on its way. And that's not all. James Landale is with us,

:27:59. > :28:04.just back from accompanying the Prime Minister to Afghanistan.

:28:04. > :28:08.Welcome back. Congratulations. Thank you. You told us that sending

:28:08. > :28:12.the Speaker to Afghanistan isn't a joke? It is true, he will go out

:28:12. > :28:16.there. We will get the Afghans bickered and MPs and Peers will be

:28:16. > :28:25.sent out there, it's to beef up the Afghan parliamentary institutions.

:28:25. > :28:30.That is the theory. That will really work. Hacking? Very hard for

:28:30. > :28:35.the two front benches to ignore this. Both would rather. What

:28:35. > :28:39.tactic does Mr Miliband play to get at Mr Cameron? It's a big Judgement

:28:39. > :28:44.Call, for Ed Miliband, something which he presents himself as a

:28:44. > :28:51.tribune of the people for? Putting pressure on the political Whitehall

:28:51. > :28:55.Westminster elite? Or does he focus more on David Cameron's judgment in

:28:55. > :28:59.Harry Andy Coulson. That is the choice he has. David Cameron, I

:28:59. > :29:02.have been to a briefing at the Prime Minister's spokesman office

:29:02. > :29:06.and we have no view on whether there should be an inquiry, just

:29:06. > :29:11.the Government has the view that MPs should do get this. That line

:29:11. > :29:16.will not hold. Does David Cameron be bold and does he say something

:29:16. > :29:20.has to change? And how far does he go? Does he keep this to the narrow

:29:20. > :29:24.focus on what happened but does he said we need a wider look at the

:29:24. > :29:29.whole issue of media regulation? What angle would you advise and to

:29:29. > :29:33.tie? The first. I would not go down the road of Andy Coulson and

:29:33. > :29:37.Stephen Cameron, this is a bigger subject and he must stay focused on

:29:37. > :29:41.the public revulsion and the public belief that there has to be changed

:29:41. > :29:44.in the media system. If David Cameron is sensible, he will start

:29:44. > :29:48.the process by which there will be an inquiry leading to a new system

:29:48. > :29:54.of regulation. Afghanistan has been overshadowed by this, right or

:29:54. > :29:58.wrong, but there will be a statement? We were on a flight

:29:58. > :30:02.yesterday morning and the only arrived in the UK at 10pm last

:30:02. > :30:06.night so do it Cameron has had a lot of catching up to do. There has

:30:06. > :30:10.been a lot of work overnight and in terms of Ghana Stan, we will get a

:30:10. > :30:14.reduction in troop numbers, around 500. The point is, David Cameron

:30:14. > :30:18.has given in to the generals and he will delay this until the back end

:30:18. > :30:23.of next year. There is a good few fighting seasons with large troop

:30:23. > :30:27.numbers static. The message from the Government to the rest of the

:30:27. > :30:32.NATO allies is, do what we do, not the Americans. But we must follow

:30:32. > :30:36.the Americans? We are entirely dependent on their support system?

:30:36. > :30:41.David Cameron's a collisions that by saying all combat troops will be

:30:41. > :30:45.out by the end of 2014 gives them some slack and within that period,

:30:45. > :30:49.to delay that process and he feels that he can do this by making

:30:49. > :30:54.another statement. He must follow the aggregate timetable and he must

:30:54. > :30:58.make sure the troops are as safe as possible. They will say, cut strips

:30:59. > :31:06.and cost lives. Those who remain will be more vulnerable? Exactly.

:31:06. > :31:09.I'm quite sure that will be the argument. You sense any U-turn?

:31:09. > :31:13.is under huge public pressure. Whenever David Cameron talks about

:31:13. > :31:17.this he talks about the context of... Yesterday, he said these are

:31:17. > :31:27.the questions the public are asking. This is the reassurance I can give.

:31:27. > :31:32.That is his context. Let's go I am sure the whole House will wish

:31:33. > :31:38.to join me in paying tribute to Scott McLaren of The Royal Regiment

:31:38. > :31:41.of Scotland. This week I witnessed at first hand the sacrifice of our

:31:41. > :31:46.soldiers. I pay tribute to the bravery and dedication of this

:31:46. > :31:51.particular soldier who was lost in such tragic circumstances. Our

:31:51. > :31:55.thoughts will be with his family and friends. We pay tribute to him

:31:55. > :31:58.and all like him his serve our country so magnificently in

:31:59. > :32:03.Afghanistan and elsewhere. This morning I had meetings with

:32:03. > :32:13.ministerial colleagues and others. I shall have further such meetings

:32:13. > :32:13.

:32:13. > :32:19.later today. I agree with the sentiments the Prime Minister has

:32:19. > :32:25.made. It is a dreaded going thinking about the knock on the

:32:25. > :32:31.door and he is lost in action. Our sympathies go with his father and

:32:31. > :32:39.family at that particular time. Is it right, Mr Speaker, that

:32:39. > :32:46.yesterday we gave �10 billion to be bailed out of the bank's in Greece?

:32:46. > :32:53.We gave �7 billion to the bail out in Ireland. We gave 100 billion -

:32:53. > :32:59.of this is the British tax pair - 100 billion a year for the quality

:32:59. > :33:04.of the banks in this country, for insurance purposes and other

:33:04. > :33:14.purposes. Why does the Prime Minister not get on his bike and go

:33:14. > :33:18.

:33:18. > :33:23.down to his friends in the City and sack the few spivs and speculators?

:33:23. > :33:27.First of all, it is this government that has put a bank levy on the

:33:27. > :33:32.banks so they are paying more in every year than they paid in the

:33:32. > :33:37.bank bonus tax under the last government. In terms of Greece, I

:33:37. > :33:41.have kept us out of the European bale out of Greece. In Ireland,

:33:41. > :33:46.that economy is so close and integrated, it is right we give

:33:46. > :33:53.them support. That is the right approach. This government is tough

:33:54. > :33:57.in making sure the banks pay their fair share. Severe drought,

:33:57. > :34:02.conflict and food prices have combined viciously in the Horn of

:34:02. > :34:10.Africa creating desperate hunger and threatening the lives of

:34:10. > :34:14.millions. What is the Government doing to help? As ever, we are

:34:14. > :34:19.being extremely effective in trying to help with the crisis where 10

:34:20. > :34:25.million people are at threat of starvation. We are right to

:34:25. > :34:30.maintain and increase our spending in this area - difficult as the

:34:30. > :34:36.arguments sometimes are. In spite of the difficulties, it is nothing

:34:36. > :34:41.like these people facing starvation and death unless we help them.

:34:41. > :34:45.I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Highlander Scott

:34:45. > :34:50.McCarron of the Highlanders forced Battalion The Royal Regiment of

:34:50. > :34:54.Scotland. He was young man, serving our country who died in the most

:34:54. > :34:58.horrific circumstances. The thoughts of the whole House are

:34:58. > :35:04.with his family and friends. The whole country has been appalled

:35:04. > :35:10.about the allegations of phone hacking - the 7/7 victims, the

:35:10. > :35:15.parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, and of course Milly Dowler.

:35:15. > :35:21.That anyone could listen to the messages and delete them, giving

:35:21. > :35:26.false hope to those parents, is immoral and a disgrace. Given the

:35:26. > :35:32.gravity of what has occurred, will the Prime Minister's support the

:35:32. > :35:39.calls for a ball, independent, public inquiry into the practices

:35:39. > :35:44.of British newspapers? Let me be very clear, yes, we do need to have

:35:44. > :35:50.an inquiry, possibly inquiries into what has happened. We're no longer

:35:50. > :35:56.talking about politicians and celebrities. We are talking about

:35:56. > :36:00.murder victims, potentially terrorist victims, it is absolutely

:36:00. > :36:05.disgusting. Everyone in this House and the country will be revolted at

:36:05. > :36:10.what they have heard and seen on the television. May I make a couple

:36:10. > :36:14.of points? People need to know there is a major police

:36:14. > :36:20.investigation under way. It is one of the biggest police

:36:20. > :36:23.investigations currently under way in our country. It does not involve

:36:23. > :36:29.the police officers who were involved in the original

:36:29. > :36:34.investigation. That clearly did not get to the trees. It is important

:36:34. > :36:39.we had inquiries that are public and independent and have public

:36:39. > :36:43.confidence. It seems there are two vital issues we need to look into.

:36:43. > :36:47.The first is the original police inquiry and why did not get to the

:36:47. > :36:53.bottom of what happened and the second is about the behaviour of

:36:53. > :36:58.individual people and individual media organisations. A wider look

:36:58. > :37:02.into media practices and ethics in this country. As he says, we cannot

:37:02. > :37:07.start all that sort of inquiry immediately because you must not

:37:07. > :37:11.jeopardise the police investigation. It may be possible to start some of

:37:11. > :37:15.that work earlier. I'm very happy to discuss this with him, with

:37:16. > :37:22.other party leaders to make sure we get this right and that lessons are

:37:22. > :37:26.learnt from what has become a disgraceful episode. Let me say to

:37:26. > :37:31.the Prime Minister I am encouraged that he does recognise now the need

:37:31. > :37:39.for a full public inquiry into what happened. He is right to say this

:37:39. > :37:44.the police investigation has taken its course. As he said in his

:37:44. > :37:49.answer, that may take some years. It is possible for the Prime

:37:49. > :37:54.Minister to start his process now. He should immediately appoint a

:37:54. > :37:58.senior figure, potentially a judge, to lead this inquiry. Make clear it

:37:58. > :38:03.will have the power to call witnesses under oath and establish

:38:03. > :38:07.clear terms of reference, covering a number of key issues. The culture

:38:07. > :38:12.and practices of the industry, the nature of regulation which is

:38:12. > :38:18.absolutely crucial, and also the relationship between the police and

:38:18. > :38:23.the media. I wonder whether he can just respond on those points.

:38:23. > :38:27.want to respond positively. Of the two issues I mentioned, the conduct

:38:27. > :38:32.of the earlier police inquiry and the broader lessons about ethics in

:38:32. > :38:37.the media, I do not think it is possible to start an investigation

:38:37. > :38:42.into the format until the police investigation is continued. There

:38:42. > :38:45.would be a danger of jeopardising the current police inquiry. I do

:38:45. > :38:50.think responding positively to what he says it may be possible to make

:38:50. > :38:55.a start on other elements. I do not want us to rush this decision. I

:38:55. > :38:58.want us to get it right, having discussed it with other party

:38:58. > :39:02.leaders, the Attorney-General and the Cabinet Secretary. All too

:39:02. > :39:12.often these inquiries are set up to early without thinking through what

:39:12. > :39:12.

:39:12. > :39:20.needs to be done. I think the Prime estate is applied -- implying that

:39:20. > :39:29.it can start now and it is very important that we do so. A beer to

:39:29. > :39:34.the day, he did appoint an inquiry about the treatment of detainees.

:39:34. > :39:39.Let me go on to ask him about what happens in the meantime pending

:39:39. > :39:42.this public inquiry. We have consistently said the BSkyB bid

:39:42. > :39:46.should be referred to the Competition Commission and not

:39:46. > :39:52.dealt with in the way the Culture Secretary has done. The Prime

:39:52. > :39:57.Minister must realise the public will react with disbelief if, next

:39:57. > :40:02.week, the decision is taken to go ahead with this deal at the time

:40:02. > :40:07.when news International is subject to a major criminal investigation

:40:07. > :40:12.and we do not yet know who charges will be laid against. Does the

:40:12. > :40:16.Prime Minister agree the BSkyB bid should now be referred to the

:40:16. > :40:21.Competition Commission to provide a breathing space that is required?

:40:21. > :40:27.Let me answer the point about Gibson. It is a good and fair point.

:40:27. > :40:31.We established the Gibson Inquiry but it has not made much process --

:40:32. > :40:36.progress until criminal proceedings had been brought to an end. You do

:40:36. > :40:40.not want to jeopardise a police operation which you would do so if

:40:40. > :40:44.you start questioning witnesses through a public inquiry process at

:40:44. > :40:50.the same time they are being questioned through a police process.

:40:50. > :40:54.I want us to get on with this issue. The faster we can set up other

:40:54. > :40:59.elements of the inquiry, the happier I will be. About BSkyB,

:40:59. > :41:06.what we have done is followed the correct legal processes. That is

:41:06. > :41:12.what the Government has to do. The Secretary of State is in a quiet

:41:12. > :41:17.side judicial rale - he has to follow that. The leader of the

:41:17. > :41:20.Labour Party said that the issue of competition and plurality is

:41:20. > :41:25.separate from the very important issue we are discussing today.

:41:25. > :41:34.These processes must be followed properly, including bike of calm.

:41:34. > :41:40.They have the duty to make a recommendation. -- including by

:41:40. > :41:47.Ofcom. Mr Speaker, I am afraid that answer was out of touch. The public

:41:47. > :41:50.will not accept the idea that, with this scandal engulfing the News of

:41:50. > :41:55.the World and News International, that the Government should, in the

:41:55. > :42:00.coming days be making a decision outside of the normal processes for

:42:01. > :42:05.them to take control of one of the biggest media organisations in the

:42:05. > :42:10.country. I know this is difficult for him but I strongly urge him to

:42:10. > :42:14.think again and send this decision to the proper authority, which is

:42:14. > :42:19.the Competition Commission. This will provide breathing space for

:42:19. > :42:24.legitimacy and the proper decisions to be made. I would say to him that

:42:24. > :42:27.the decision making has been through the proper processes. It is

:42:27. > :42:32.right the Government acts are legally in every way. That is what

:42:32. > :42:37.it has done. One is about morality and ethics and a police

:42:37. > :42:41.investigator that needs to be carried out in the proper way. They

:42:41. > :42:46.have total independence. The other is about plurality and competition

:42:46. > :42:53.which has to act under the law. Incredible as he has done a U-turn

:42:53. > :43:03.in order to look good in the House of Commons. Mr Speaker, this is not

:43:03. > :43:05.

:43:05. > :43:10.the time for technicalities or low We have said consistently,

:43:10. > :43:14.throughout this process, that this bid should be referred to the

:43:14. > :43:20.Competition Commission. This is the right way forward. The Prime

:43:20. > :43:25.Minister should speak for the country on this issue. This is what

:43:25. > :43:28.people want him to do. I hope he will think again because it is in

:43:28. > :43:32.the interests of the media industry and the British public that this is

:43:32. > :43:37.properly referred to the Competition Commission in the way

:43:37. > :43:42.that all other bids are dealt with. What we also know, as well as

:43:42. > :43:45.needing a public inquiry and the BSkyB bid referred to the

:43:45. > :43:50.Competition Commission, these were not the actions of a rogue

:43:50. > :43:58.individual or a road reporter but part of a wider, systematic pattern

:43:58. > :44:03.of the abuses. The public sees no one wanting to take responsibility

:44:03. > :44:10.for what happened. No one is denying the phone off Milly Dowler

:44:10. > :44:15.was hat. No one is denying it happened on the watch of the editor

:44:15. > :44:18.of the newspaper at the time. Will the Prime Minister join me if he

:44:18. > :44:26.believes the people taking responsibility for insane she

:44:26. > :44:30.should take responsibility and consider her position? -- in saying.

:44:30. > :44:33.Let me deal with the technicalities. When you are dealing with the law,

:44:33. > :44:38.you have to look at the technicalities because there is

:44:38. > :44:45.something called up to process that you have to follow. That is

:44:46. > :44:50.necessary for any government. -- called due process. Everyone needs

:44:50. > :44:54.to ask searching questions at News International. Everyone is subject

:44:54. > :44:58.to one of the largest police investigations under way in this

:44:59. > :45:03.country. We should let the police do their work was done they should

:45:03. > :45:08.follow the evidence, Brett it needs was a big people are guilty of

:45:08. > :45:18.wrongdoing, they should have no hesitation in making sure they are

:45:18. > :45:19.

:45:19. > :45:24.I am clear, she should take responsibility and stand down. And

:45:24. > :45:27.Mr Speaker, these events show a systematic set of abuses which

:45:27. > :45:30.demonstrate the abuse of power without responsibility in the

:45:30. > :45:33.country and is in the interests of democracy and the public that these

:45:33. > :45:37.are sorted out. With the biggest press scandal in modern times

:45:37. > :45:41.getting worse by the day, I'm afraid he has not shown the

:45:41. > :45:46.leadership necessary today. He has not shown in leadership necessary

:45:46. > :45:52.on BSkyB, or on a News International. And is it not the

:45:52. > :45:59.case that if the public is to have confidence in him, he must accept

:45:59. > :46:09.that he made a catastrophic error of judgment by bringing Andy

:46:09. > :46:15.Coulson... Into the heart of his Downing Street machine? What

:46:15. > :46:20.people... Order! Order! The Prime Minister should not have to shout

:46:20. > :46:25.to be heard or should the leader of the opposition. It is thoroughly

:46:25. > :46:28.disorderly. The Prime Minister will be heard. I take full

:46:28. > :46:31.responsibility for everyone I employed and everyone I. And I take

:46:32. > :46:36.responsibility for everything my Government does. What this

:46:36. > :46:40.Government is doing is making sure that the public, and I felt

:46:41. > :46:45.appalled by what has happened, murder victims, terrorist victims

:46:45. > :46:48.who have had their phones tapped, that is disgraceful and there must

:46:48. > :46:51.be a full police investigation of all the powers they need. That is

:46:51. > :46:55.why it is important we have as inquiries to get to the bottom of

:46:55. > :46:58.what went wrong and the lessons that need learning. That is why we

:46:58. > :47:01.need to enquire as to how we improve the ethics and morals of

:47:02. > :47:04.the press in this country and make sure they improve for the future.

:47:04. > :47:11.That is what needs to be done and what this Government is doing and

:47:11. > :47:17.we don't have to take lectures from him about it. Nicky Morgan. Thank

:47:17. > :47:22.you. For the year 9 pupils at a high-school and my constituency,

:47:22. > :47:25.they have joined hundreds of other pupils to the send my sister to

:47:25. > :47:29.school campaign and will the Prime Minister and support to the scores

:47:29. > :47:34.and I should not remind people that good education here or overseas

:47:34. > :47:38.transforms children's lives and their life chances. I am delighted

:47:38. > :47:43.to welcome the campaign that she mentions and her personal support.

:47:43. > :47:47.The fact is that across the world there are 39 million curls out of

:47:47. > :47:52.school and even if they are in school, the gender gaps we see are

:47:52. > :47:57.appalling and in the UK, with the aid budget, we are securing

:47:57. > :48:02.schooling for 11 million children by 2015, that is more in the UK but

:48:02. > :48:08.we can do this at 2.5% of the cost. This is a good investment for

:48:08. > :48:11.British taxpayers to make sure we reduce inequality in the world.

:48:11. > :48:15.the Prime Minister explain whether he thinks the cost of his NHS

:48:15. > :48:18.reforms, set to rise even further with the revelation that a new

:48:18. > :48:21.super quango in the NHS will be created, might be partly

:48:21. > :48:27.responsible for the funding squeeze affecting health services in

:48:27. > :48:32.Harrow? It puts at risk services at the popular Alexandria Avenue

:48:32. > :48:36.clinic in my constituency. What we have seen since this Government has

:48:36. > :48:40.taken office is more than 2000 doctors and 4000 fewer managers.

:48:40. > :48:45.And we're cutting bureaucracy by one-third. They don't like to hear

:48:45. > :48:49.it, but if we follow their plans and cut in a chest and -- spending,

:48:49. > :48:53.we would see the numbers of doctors and nurses coming down and just

:48:53. > :49:00.this morning we have seen the numbers of diagnostic tests going

:49:00. > :49:04.up. Because of the investment going in under this Government. The Prime

:49:04. > :49:07.Minister will be aware of the news this morning that Portugal's debt

:49:07. > :49:12.has been downgraded. Does he agree that it is a warning to every

:49:12. > :49:19.member of this house that you cannot put off difficult decisions

:49:19. > :49:22.and the only plan B is bankruptcy? My friend is right, Plan B stands

:49:23. > :49:27.for bankruptcy. We can see what happens when governments do not get

:49:27. > :49:32.a grip of their debt and deficit. That is what this Government does

:49:32. > :49:35.and the party opposite have learnt nothing. Does the Prime Minister

:49:35. > :49:40.agree with me that the maximum sentence for the offence of

:49:40. > :49:45.dangerous driving does not properly reflect the potential harm caused

:49:46. > :49:49.to victims? Sometimes these victims are left paralysed and brain damage.

:49:49. > :49:54.Will the Prime Minister's support me and my front bench in increasing

:49:54. > :49:57.the maximum sentence took seven years? I know that the Honourable

:49:57. > :50:00.Gentleman speaks with personal knowledge about this, not just

:50:00. > :50:04.because of his constituency case that he wrote to me about but

:50:04. > :50:14.because of his work as a barrister before coming to this place. I

:50:14. > :50:16.

:50:16. > :50:19.brought to me, someone was really damaged permanently for life and

:50:19. > :50:27.the next one sentence is two years. We are looking at this issue and we

:50:27. > :50:35.hope to make progress. To even more us. What the Prime Minister agree

:50:35. > :50:41.that the event should be allowed from the opposition of �10 billion

:50:41. > :50:51.isn't just the fear not in the IMF and in the 1970s, the IMF bailed

:50:51. > :50:55.out their government? I agree with what my friend said and it was

:50:55. > :50:59.remarkable yesterday that the Labour Party put themselves in a

:50:59. > :51:01.position of opposing our involvement in the IMF. Britain is

:51:02. > :51:09.a serious global economy and we should take responsibility for

:51:09. > :51:13.serious global issues, including through the IMF. David Simpson.

:51:13. > :51:16.Does the Prime Minister agree that details of all the weapons and

:51:16. > :51:22.explosives be commissioned in Northern Ireland should be made

:51:22. > :51:25.public, as promised? And will he agree to have negotiations with the

:51:25. > :51:33.Irish government to move forward to the Americans to see that it

:51:33. > :51:36.happens? The Independent Commission did not provide us with an

:51:36. > :51:42.inventory, they were an independent body and this was a decision for

:51:42. > :51:46.them to make, difficult as that is. They stated that we would not want

:51:46. > :51:54.to inadvertently discourage further decommissioning with groups that

:51:54. > :51:58.are actively engaged. This is difficult and we're having to deal

:51:58. > :52:01.in Northern Ireland with difficult things in order to bring conflict

:52:02. > :52:09.to an end and keep conflict to an end and this is what the

:52:09. > :52:13.commissioner's report did. On the issue of delaying inquiries, the

:52:13. > :52:17.public have little confidence in the Metropolitan Police, were

:52:17. > :52:22.investigations concerning News International are concerned. Colour

:52:22. > :52:25.remind him of a question I asked in April, will he have a full judicial

:52:25. > :52:30.inquiry that looks particularly at the link between News International

:52:30. > :52:34.and the Metropolitan Police? Clearly this is a very important

:52:34. > :52:39.issue and my friend is disgusted with the Commissioner of the

:52:39. > :52:42.Metropolitan Police. -- has discussed it. Let me try to

:52:42. > :52:47.reassure the house and the on and a gentleman about this because even

:52:47. > :52:50.before you get to the point about independent and public inquiries,

:52:50. > :52:53.what the public needs to know is that the police will go about their

:52:53. > :52:58.job properly in terms of this investigation and they do need to

:52:58. > :53:02.know that this is an investigation completely separate from the

:53:02. > :53:06.previous investigation and as it stands today, it is one of the

:53:06. > :53:11.largest police investigations going on anywhere in the country. Teresa

:53:11. > :53:15.Pearce. Thank you. The victims of knife crime in London have

:53:15. > :53:18.increased by 8% over the last three months. On the streets of London

:53:18. > :53:23.have children carrying knives and other children afraid of the

:53:23. > :53:28.journey to and from school. Last Friday, on a busy shopping parade,

:53:28. > :53:31.a 16 year-old constituent of mine was stabbed to death. Two children

:53:31. > :53:36.have been arrested in connection with this and what with the Prime

:53:36. > :53:41.Minister do to ensure that the mayor of London gets a grip on this

:53:41. > :53:44.problem and that was one of the election promises? The case that

:53:44. > :53:48.she raises is a tragic one and there are still too many victims of

:53:48. > :53:52.knife crime, particularly among young people, in our cities. What

:53:52. > :53:55.we're doing is creating a new offence with a mandatory sentence

:53:55. > :53:59.to send a clear message to those who carry knives. The offence would

:53:59. > :54:03.apply to those with the knife who threaten and endanger others and a

:54:03. > :54:09.public place. It will send a clear message to those who possess nice,

:54:09. > :54:13.if you threaten anyone, you go to jail. What the Prime Minister agree

:54:13. > :54:19.that those who pay back early their student loans are doing the right

:54:19. > :54:22.thing and should be encouraged? If so, how is it consistent with the

:54:22. > :54:26.government policy which is apparently want to discourage

:54:26. > :54:31.people from paying back early and indeed penalising them for early

:54:31. > :54:36.repayment? I would urge my friend to look carefully at the details of

:54:36. > :54:39.what we propose. We want a progressive system were people who

:54:39. > :54:44.earn more pay back more and that is why we have the system were nobody

:54:44. > :54:49.pays anything until they earn �21,000 and you don't pay back in

:54:49. > :54:53.full until �35,000. We are proposing that people who pay back

:54:53. > :55:01.�3,000 a year, as they earn money, should not be discouraged because

:55:01. > :55:08.that is the right thing to do. opposition the Prime Minister was

:55:08. > :55:11.clear that... Last week, he said I fell back on the same explanation

:55:11. > :55:19.is that he refused to accept when they were given to him by the

:55:19. > :55:25.previous Prime Minister. What has changed? We have banned the Taliban,

:55:25. > :55:30.we have taken action, and as my friend, the Lord Chancellor, will

:55:30. > :55:33.history testify, it is endlessly frustrating that we are subject to

:55:33. > :55:43.so many legal requirements but I'm afraid we have to be a government

:55:43. > :55:47.

:55:47. > :55:51.under the law. Order! Mr Robert Hall Farm... Given that the

:55:51. > :55:55.Olympics and the Diamond Jubilee are next to, is the Prime Minister

:55:55. > :55:59.aware that emigration Special Branch officers are concerned that

:55:59. > :56:03.the common area of travel channel allows illegal migrants, Islamists

:56:03. > :56:08.and terrorists, into the country without passports being checked.

:56:08. > :56:11.Will he take steps to close this loophole immediately? By friend

:56:11. > :56:14.makes an important point but I would say that passport free travel

:56:14. > :56:18.between the UK and Crown dependencies and the Republic of

:56:18. > :56:22.Ireland has been in place for many years and it offers economic and

:56:22. > :56:26.social benefits. I except that these routes can be open to abuse

:56:26. > :56:29.and we're determined to resolve this, the UK Border Agency is

:56:29. > :56:31.working closely with Ireland and others to make sure this happens

:56:31. > :56:41.what we want to try to do this without disadvantaging people who

:56:41. > :56:41.

:56:41. > :56:44.can take advantage of this common travel area up to now.

:56:44. > :56:49.committee's secretary and the DWP secretary has said that British

:56:49. > :56:59.employers should employ British workers. Will the Prime Minister

:56:59. > :57:05.start with the DWP offshore or company in offering -- outsourcing

:57:05. > :57:11.jobs to Bangalore? I understand the case she makes... Order! I want to

:57:11. > :57:16.hear the answer! What we need to do is make sure that our welfare

:57:16. > :57:20.reforms are encouraging those people who sit on welfare and could

:57:20. > :57:24.work and make them go out to work. Under the party opposite, yes,

:57:24. > :57:31.economic growth but 5 million working-age people living on

:57:31. > :57:40.benefits. That isn't good enough and we will change that. What the

:57:40. > :57:43.Prime Minister agree that centres in rural areas provide a valuable

:57:43. > :57:49.service to their local communities and hundreds of my constituents

:57:49. > :57:54.send this message to Derbyshire NHS as they threaten the closure of the

:57:54. > :57:58.centre? I agree of my friend and we want to see maternity networks so

:57:58. > :58:02.that mothers can make a choice about where they can give birth.

:58:02. > :58:06.Whether that is in a community setting, midwife lead or in a

:58:06. > :58:14.district general hospital, where they have all the paraphernalia of

:58:14. > :58:18.consultants, and it should be a choice made by them. Is the Prime

:58:18. > :58:22.Minister aware that when yesterday Bombardier had to announce

:58:22. > :58:27.redundancies, including skilled engineers and signers, the company

:58:27. > :58:31.made public for the first time that they had offered to establish a new

:58:31. > :58:35.Academy in this country for the design and manufacture of cars for

:58:35. > :58:40.the next generation of high-speed trains in this country and across

:58:40. > :58:43.the world. More jobs and jobs with even higher skills. He won't have

:58:43. > :58:47.had time to familiarise himself with the details but will he

:58:47. > :58:49.undertake to look into this with care to give substance to the

:58:49. > :58:54.commitment to give in my constituency to British

:58:54. > :59:00.manufacturing? I will look very carefully at what the Honourable

:59:00. > :59:04.Lady has said about this but let me just say this... I Want to See More

:59:04. > :59:09.British jobs in manufacturing and as we are seeing across the country

:59:10. > :59:16.but in case of Bombardier, the procurement process was designed

:59:16. > :59:19.and emaciated by the Government of which she was apart. We are bound

:59:19. > :59:23.by the criteria they set out and therefore we must continue with the

:59:23. > :59:27.decision that has been made according to that. Separately, we

:59:27. > :59:31.are setting out to ask the question, what more can we do within the

:59:31. > :59:38.current rules to make sure that the boost manufacturing in the country?

:59:38. > :59:43.And not have situations like this in the future. 12 days ago a young

:59:43. > :59:48.constituent of mine was the victim of a vicious knife attack. This

:59:48. > :59:53.last weekend, another 16 year-old man was also the victim of a knife

:59:53. > :59:57.attack. Will my Right Honourable friend join with me in condemning

:59:57. > :00:04.this upsurge in gang related violence and confirm that those

:00:04. > :00:10.that carry knives will be facing a custodial sentence if apprehended?

:00:10. > :00:12.As I have said, it is important to send a clear message about this and

:00:12. > :00:16.we're doing that with the new offence that carries a mandatory

:00:16. > :00:22.sentence and that is a single to anyone who contemplate carrying a

:00:22. > :00:26.knife. We should be frank. Surely looking at this from a criminal

:00:26. > :00:29.justice situation isn't the answer. We have to ask ourselves why so

:00:29. > :00:33.many young people joined gangs and why aren't families and communities

:00:33. > :00:42.doing more to keep them close and prevent the carrying of knives and

:00:42. > :00:47.that is something that runs across government. It isn't the case of

:00:47. > :00:51.the Government follows the normal process in relation to the takeover

:00:52. > :00:55.of BSkyB. Why does he believe the assurances that News Corporation

:00:55. > :01:01.executives give are any more credible than the ones they give

:01:01. > :01:05.over phone hacking? We have followed the correct processes and

:01:05. > :01:07.indeed, if you do not know the correct process, you will be

:01:07. > :01:17.judicially reviewed and all the decisions you would like to make

:01:17. > :01:20.

:01:20. > :01:25.for a political point of view it will be struck down in the courts.

:01:26. > :01:35.Order! If the house can overcome its collective mirth, we will hear

:01:35. > :01:39.Mr Ian Miss Wales. I visited a school in my constituency which is

:01:39. > :01:42.the 17th most deprived primary- school in the country. Will the

:01:42. > :01:46.Prime Minister join me in congratulating the school and the

:01:46. > :01:50.community in their work to convert an area of demolished houses into a

:01:50. > :01:59.playing field and will he ensure the Government improves its pupil

:01:59. > :02:06.premium policy to support this excellent work? I believe the

:02:06. > :02:08.people premium which will pump billions into the most deprived

:02:08. > :02:18.children in deprived parts of the country will make a huge difference

:02:18. > :02:30.

:02:30. > :02:40.That was the penultimate Prime Minister's Questions. That is the

:02:40. > :02:43.

:02:43. > :02:46.second last! Yes! Phone hacking dominated the exchanges. We have

:02:46. > :02:52.agreement that there should be an inquiry but exactly when and with

:02:52. > :02:56.the terms of reference, obviously there are no concrete piece of news

:02:56. > :03:00.but there is disagreement on whether Mr Murdoch's attempt to buy

:03:00. > :03:08.60% of BSkyB that he does not own should be referred to the

:03:08. > :03:18.Competition Commission for at least delayed. Why that was going on in

:03:18. > :03:19.

:03:20. > :03:24.Parliament, the outside world is We learned in the last half hour

:03:24. > :03:31.that Halifax, Virgin Holidays, Lloyds Bank and Vauxhall Motors had

:03:31. > :03:35.also withdrawn. There is a sense of an avalanche. There is talk of

:03:35. > :03:44.Renault, cabarets, at NatWest, Coca-Cola, Body Shop pulls up

:03:44. > :03:54.various others may not be advertising. That think can hurt.

:03:54. > :03:56.

:03:56. > :04:03.We remember what happened to The Sun paper macro. Boycotts can hit

:04:03. > :04:08.you. Rupert Murdoch likes big, thick bottom lines. One of the new

:04:08. > :04:12.things we have been doing is monitoring the tweets that come in.

:04:13. > :04:16.In the Westminster village, those people who make their business

:04:16. > :04:23.punting on these issues, they thought that Ed Miliband scored a

:04:23. > :04:30.clear win. Wiped the floor with David Cameron. These up all people

:04:30. > :04:35.who work in the business. What about you? This one from Peter in

:04:35. > :04:39.Oxfordshire. David Cameron failed to address the public perception of

:04:39. > :04:45.the close link between News International and the Conservative

:04:45. > :04:51.Party. It seems Ed Miliband judges people before they are found guilty,

:04:51. > :04:57.says Maureen Ryan. Chris from Sheffield says what a disgusting

:04:57. > :05:01.attitude by members of the opposition towards the Prime

:05:01. > :05:06.Minister. He was being heckled constantly by Labour backbenchers.

:05:06. > :05:12.Another one, what a waste! What we care about is trying to make a

:05:12. > :05:15.static way to go even further week after week. Alastair Campbell,

:05:15. > :05:20.adviser to David Cameron and the Prime Minister, and they say that

:05:20. > :05:24.because he wrote a new block. I have heard to say before that Mr

:05:24. > :05:30.Cameron would stand up and then as he would agree to the principle of

:05:30. > :05:34.a broad-based inquiry and that is what he did. I am glad he did it.

:05:34. > :05:43.Ed Miliband Havel did extremely well. David Cameron did the right

:05:43. > :05:48.thing. -- Ed Miliband handled it extremely well. I think now of this

:05:48. > :05:52.inquiry has to be wide ranging. It cannot just be about the News of

:05:52. > :05:58.the World. It is about links with police and private investigators.

:05:58. > :06:03.It has to lead to a settlement between politics and the media. A

:06:03. > :06:09.lot of politicians will start to think that maybe Selfridge it --

:06:09. > :06:16.self regulation is best. The Prime Minister a's line is that we have

:06:16. > :06:21.to follow to process. The Culture Secretary does not meet without

:06:21. > :06:24.half a dozen lawyers in the same room so he is being seen to act to

:06:24. > :06:32.the letter of the law. Public opinion and the public mood is

:06:33. > :06:37.another thing. Can apposition be sustained? I thought the first part

:06:37. > :06:47.was Parliament at its best was that it was the right tone was a bit

:06:47. > :06:51.

:06:51. > :07:00.came a par with the BSkyB quote. -- -- beat it where it came apart was

:07:00. > :07:06.with the BSkyB quote. What is very likely to happen is that somebody

:07:06. > :07:10.will resurrect all bring up the fit and proper test. There is a

:07:10. > :07:18.requirement, said Labour media takeovers, that the person taking

:07:18. > :07:23.over has to meet a fit and proper test. The default option is Ofcom.

:07:23. > :07:28.That is the regulatory body for the media. It looks rather weak. I

:07:28. > :07:34.think Mr Cameron will go back to No. 10 and say, find me a way through

:07:34. > :07:43.all of this. Why can it not be referred to the Competition

:07:43. > :07:49.Commission? New information, I have changed my mind. It is more fit and

:07:49. > :07:54.proper. This whole picture has changed completely. We do not know,

:07:54. > :08:00.we will not know for months, quite how far up the Murdoch organisation

:08:00. > :08:07.the blame for these problems goes. That is the key issue. If it goes

:08:07. > :08:16.right to senior level... You do not do �750,000 settlements with Gordon

:08:16. > :08:19.Taylor without it going very high up. It will open the doors to much

:08:19. > :08:26.more. If you came back of a plane last night and were presented with

:08:26. > :08:31.a problem like this, you can announce two inquiries - one on the

:08:31. > :08:36.police and one on the issue of wider media regulation. He had no

:08:36. > :08:42.alternative about that. So many people will say, if we touch the

:08:42. > :08:49.BSkyB issue, we have to get it right. We cannot get it wrong. The

:08:49. > :08:55.moment something goes wrong with it, the consequences could be huge.

:08:55. > :09:00.supplied to Ben Bradshaw was rather tetchy. We will have to go and find

:09:00. > :09:05.out what is the wiggle room the Government have. The question by

:09:05. > :09:13.Ben Bradshaw was quite interesting. He knows a bit about the background

:09:13. > :09:18.to this. I think David is right. I think David Cameron looked very

:09:18. > :09:24.uncomfortable. The public, whether he likes it or not, they are

:09:24. > :09:29.linking the two issues. It is big enough to have a public inquiry

:09:29. > :09:33.into the media but to have a public inquiry into the police and the

:09:33. > :09:37.media would be unprecedented and potentially devastating for a lot

:09:37. > :09:46.of people. Labour members of the Metropolitan Police have authority

:09:46. > :09:51.have called upon Paul Stephenson to refer the bourse voluntary -- be

:09:51. > :09:57.forced voluntary to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

:09:57. > :10:07.are dragging people out of bed at midnight and all the rest of it.

:10:07. > :10:09.

:10:09. > :10:13.Compare the lack of zeal on this! You, I understand, are currently

:10:13. > :10:19.Labour's largest individual donor. Why it is Ed Miliband not

:10:19. > :10:25.attracting more financial support? We are the third most interesting

:10:25. > :10:29.party at the moment. In Scotland we are the 4th most interesting party

:10:29. > :10:34.or they may be the Lib Dems do not count. It you have got to be head

:10:34. > :10:38.of the Tories and the Lib Dems. We're the third most interesting

:10:38. > :10:43.party. The Tories are the Government. Business has moved back

:10:43. > :10:49.a fair amount and Ed is finding it hard to attract that sort of

:10:49. > :10:53.support. That is inevitable at this stage of the parliament. David will

:10:53. > :10:58.know this from when he was trying to raise money through his campaign,

:10:58. > :11:05.money does tend to go a bit towards where they think the winners Mike

:11:05. > :11:14.bees. It is about -- might be. It will have done him and the PLP a

:11:14. > :11:20.lot of beard. I was surprised my donation was the largest last month.

:11:20. > :11:30.Next month it will be the guy who paid for the dedication of my book

:11:30. > :11:31.

:11:31. > :11:35.was up is that this book here? said, during the leadership

:11:35. > :11:39.campaign, I think Ed Miliband is a really nice guy. The need to

:11:39. > :11:45.differentiate between making the party feel ABOUT losing a making

:11:45. > :11:51.the party face up to what it needs to get into shape again. He is yet

:11:51. > :11:57.to do that, hasn't he? If he has started the process. He has the

:11:57. > :12:02.space now. I think a lot of us, and a lot of our people, have found it

:12:02. > :12:09.hard to adapt to the fact the are no longer in government. It cannot

:12:09. > :12:14.have opened debates. If somebody says something... We are having

:12:14. > :12:20.them, why can't you? I think the Labour Party can have a much more

:12:21. > :12:26.lively and much more robust debate about past, present and future. Ed

:12:26. > :12:32.is getting a very bad press most of the time. He should get a

:12:32. > :12:37.reasonable press after today. Ultimately, politics is about

:12:37. > :12:43.making big strategic choices. I do not think we up their lead in terms

:12:43. > :12:49.of being clear about the strategy we want to pursue. -- we are bare.

:12:49. > :12:56.Up he said he would be the Iain Duncan-Smith of the Labour Party.

:12:56. > :13:01.can remember, that is ridiculous, it cannot be as bad as that. In the

:13:01. > :13:06.latest poll in the Independent on Sunday, it says that Ed Miliband is

:13:06. > :13:11.more unpopular than Iain Duncan- Smith in the same stage of his

:13:11. > :13:16.leadership. The mood around him has been very negative. He needs to

:13:16. > :13:21.keep going. There has to be a big debate. There is no problem with

:13:21. > :13:27.having an open debate and differences of opinion about why we

:13:27. > :13:33.lost and the economic policies pursued, we should have that debate.

:13:33. > :13:38.Ed does have the manner. He has a nice touch with people. He is

:13:38. > :13:41.developing in Parliament. The important thing is about policy. We

:13:42. > :13:51.can afford to have a much more robust debate the we're having at

:13:52. > :13:52.

:13:52. > :13:57.the moment. Some in your party will not one that debate. There is no

:13:57. > :14:02.agreement over the past. Some people in the party, Ed Balls among

:14:02. > :14:08.others, think a debate that looks to the past is distracting. The

:14:08. > :14:18.next election should be fought on future issues. You should not enter

:14:18. > :14:19.

:14:19. > :14:22.an argument about who did what rank in the last Parliament, at the last

:14:22. > :14:28.government. That is why we should all recognise that nobody has

:14:29. > :14:32.anything to fear. I think it would do the Labour Party a lot of good.

:14:32. > :14:38.Every time I read about, if somebody says something slightly

:14:38. > :14:43.different to what Ed has said, there is a plot going on. There is

:14:43. > :14:48.no plot that I know off. It is a desire to learn lessons about why

:14:48. > :14:54.we lost and what we did when we were winning elections. That is

:14:54. > :14:59.really important. Just a comment on the poll thing. Whoever won the

:14:59. > :15:04.leadership election, with the in a difficult position. That is the

:15:04. > :15:09.biggest story. All of them would be in trouble. Unless you have this

:15:09. > :15:13.debate, that is all we will talk about. The Tory high command view

:15:13. > :15:18.at the moment where they have not got a lot to cheer about because

:15:18. > :15:24.they're in the worst part of the political and economic cycle... Of

:15:24. > :15:31.the second worst part. These draw they grasp is that we're up against

:15:31. > :15:36.Ed Miliband, they say. Isn't that dangerously complacent? It is good

:15:36. > :15:40.for rattling the other side. When Iain Duncan Smith was leader we

:15:40. > :15:46.used to have a weekly meeting, sitting down. We used to work out

:15:46. > :15:56.what his drinks were, what his weaknesses were. -- his strengths.

:15:56. > :16:09.

:16:09. > :16:13.You should never underestimate your Thank you for being with us. And

:16:13. > :16:19.things aren't moving with the News of the World story and we learnt

:16:19. > :16:22.that the court has also suspended its dealings with News of the World

:16:22. > :16:25.and an investigation is taking place. It's often thought the

:16:25. > :16:30.French dress better than us, cook better food than us and produce

:16:30. > :16:33.better wine. And, of course, they strike better than us. According to

:16:33. > :16:38.the French entrepreneur PY Gerbeau, they take to the streets on an

:16:38. > :16:48.almost daily basis. Here's his soapbox on why we should not be

:16:48. > :16:57.

:16:57. > :17:02.trying to emulate our friends across the Channel. I left my

:17:02. > :17:06.beloved France 11 years ago to work and live in the UK, mainly to avoid

:17:06. > :17:11.the end this French striking culture. There is a strike almost

:17:11. > :17:16.every day which not only paralyses the country but also stops any

:17:16. > :17:21.entrepreneurs of being able to run any business. The French population

:17:21. > :17:28.is constantly taken hostage by trade unions that basically to not

:17:28. > :17:33.represent anybody in France. This is a recipe for disaster. The UK

:17:33. > :17:36.has always been synonymous with the fantastic business model were an

:17:36. > :17:41.entrepreneur can succeed and were the trade unions are no safeguard

:17:41. > :17:47.but can be supportive, unlike in France, where they are entirely

:17:47. > :17:52.destructive. There is a big pot. With Brussels and its constant

:17:52. > :17:55.threat of bringing more red tape to the showers and the slow, dangerous

:17:55. > :18:00.drift towards the field French economic system, we have a massive

:18:00. > :18:04.reason to be worried. Last week saw much protest which could only be

:18:04. > :18:09.the tip of the iceberg with cuts coming in and as a businessman I

:18:09. > :18:13.question what impact it will have on UK plc because all of us should

:18:13. > :18:16.focus on three things - getting ourselves out of recession, making

:18:17. > :18:26.sure we create and protect jobs and make sure the country gets back on

:18:26. > :18:31.its front foot. The UK population is desperate for good news, to be

:18:31. > :18:35.able to face the tough economy. But the reality of our day-to-day life

:18:36. > :18:40.is transport chaos, massive strikes, the Olympics, which should have

:18:40. > :18:44.been the greatest news but it's a project four times over budget and

:18:44. > :18:54.the population isn't able to buy tickets. That isn't a recipe to

:18:54. > :18:56.

:18:56. > :19:03.motivate and inspire people. We're joined now by PY Gerbeau. We get

:19:03. > :19:07.people to crunch numbers, you do not deserve your reputation. You

:19:07. > :19:14.are actually the European average. We do it very noisily and disturb

:19:14. > :19:18.everybody. They bring sheep and tractors and stop everything.

:19:18. > :19:22.hardly take to the streets. And with so many cuts and so much pain,

:19:22. > :19:28.is it not right and proper in a democracy that people can come out?

:19:28. > :19:31.A exactly, I am not against trade unions. In France they're totally

:19:31. > :19:38.disruptive and I am totally for the liberty of protesting. My problem

:19:38. > :19:42.is when they take people hostage, people cannot go to work.

:19:42. > :19:50.convenient strike is pointless in many people's eyes? Nobody will

:19:51. > :19:54.notice! Were we to like us to go on strike?! We can go on strike we

:19:54. > :19:58.should not have the opportunity to disturb people's lives and take

:19:58. > :20:03.them hostage. That is what my problem is and that is what the

:20:03. > :20:07.entrepreneurial spirit has disappeared and why my colleagues

:20:07. > :20:13.are economic refugees. Alastair Campbell, you were talking the Big

:20:13. > :20:17.Top, is that where we should be going? Convenient strikes? I have

:20:17. > :20:22.been at a few strikes in France and their like social occasions, people

:20:22. > :20:27.bring their children and food and wine and they sit around. They do

:20:27. > :20:29.have a very different attitude. Partly it is about the media, our

:20:29. > :20:34.media is very conditioned to covering strikes from a very

:20:34. > :20:39.negative perspective. Striking is always bad. In France, a lot of

:20:39. > :20:49.people think they are part of the industrial culture. There was more

:20:49. > :20:54.public support. I agree with Alastair. Let David Davies come in

:20:54. > :21:02.on this... I think they chewed strikers to cure advice, until

:21:03. > :21:07.three in the morning. Who noticed? On the issue of striking, it is an

:21:07. > :21:12.important point, is it right, morally, for the public sector to

:21:12. > :21:17.be striking when actually in many areas they are better off than in

:21:17. > :21:21.the private sector? The private sector perhaps complaint that it

:21:21. > :21:26.did it do? To be serious, they should be tougher rules for public

:21:26. > :21:30.sector strikes. If you are in the private sector and go on strike,

:21:30. > :21:33.there is a competitor who will look after your customers and the public

:21:33. > :21:40.sector there is a monopoly, you cannot get to work, you cannot do a

:21:40. > :21:43.job. Whatever that might be. In those circumstances, we have had

:21:43. > :21:50.debate about requiring the majority of the workforce and not just the

:21:50. > :21:57.electorate. Vince Cable is playing footsie with this notion. Should we

:21:57. > :22:03.look at the terms and conditions of the strikes? He is playing footsie,

:22:03. > :22:06.and the balance is right. Thatcher pushed this in a very certain

:22:06. > :22:10.direction and it came back a little bit but this whole idea that the

:22:10. > :22:14.public sector leader these gilded lives with their so-called gold-

:22:14. > :22:18.plated pensions, a teacher who works for several decades doing a

:22:18. > :22:25.bloody good job, they don't end up on these massive pensions that

:22:25. > :22:29.people talk about. They will have a half a million pound pension pot!

:22:29. > :22:34.They will have a decent pension that will retire them over their

:22:34. > :22:38.old age. Better than most people, ordinary workers, will know. That

:22:38. > :22:42.is because of what has happened to the pensions industry but I still

:22:42. > :22:47.think that playing this as a game between the private sector being

:22:47. > :22:51.terribly poor and the public sector... We are running at a time,

:22:51. > :22:54.very quickly, looking at this, is there room for negotiation or are

:22:54. > :22:58.strikes inevitable over the next few months? There should be room

:22:58. > :23:02.for negotiation and advanced in his public support but this is changing.

:23:02. > :23:08.There is a lobby group of traditional workers who are fed up

:23:09. > :23:11.with being taking -- taken hostage. There is a place for protesting.

:23:11. > :23:17.France they always say they want change but when it comes to it,

:23:17. > :23:22.they don't. We are special that we! Thank you very much for being with

:23:22. > :23:24.us. If you ask politicos what the most memorable debates in

:23:24. > :23:27.Parliament have been recently, they'd probably say the ones about

:23:27. > :23:30.wild animals in circuses and voting rights for prisoners. They might

:23:30. > :23:36.never have happened if it hadn't been for the relatively new

:23:36. > :23:38.Backbench Business Committee. You might never have heard of it but

:23:38. > :23:45.it's becoming an increasingly powerful way for backbenchers to

:23:45. > :23:55.get stuff off their chests. Yesterday Adam had a bit of a nose

:23:55. > :24:01.

:24:01. > :24:05.around. It is Tuesday at 1pm and MPs are flocking to the regular

:24:05. > :24:10.meeting of the backbench business committee. They will compete in a

:24:10. > :24:14.Dragon's Den style format for a slot to have a debate on the topic

:24:15. > :24:21.of their choice. If they do secure that, it can lead to fireworks...

:24:21. > :24:28.Can be to prisoners should not have the vote. Rapists, drug dealers,

:24:28. > :24:33.frankly it does not matter what the crime is. Given its seriousness.

:24:33. > :24:41.Many of these animals have been so domesticated over so many years, to

:24:41. > :24:45.wrench them out of the life there used to what be more cruel...

:24:45. > :24:49.community was created as part of a package of reforms to plump up the

:24:49. > :24:52.role of backbench MPs. It has just celebrated its first birthday.

:24:52. > :24:57.are to meet congratulate the backbench committee over the last

:24:57. > :25:01.year. It has made a difference in Parliament and I think it is quite

:25:01. > :25:04.right that actually a House of Commons can choose to debate the

:25:04. > :25:08.subject of its choosing on a motion of its choosing at a time of his

:25:08. > :25:14.choosing. That is right and it has discussed a range of issues from

:25:14. > :25:17.the very mundane to the quite obscure. It has been a year of

:25:17. > :25:21.bread and circuses! The backbench business committee is responsible

:25:22. > :25:25.for scheduling debates on 35 days of the year and they would love

:25:25. > :25:31.more. But that would require the Government to seriously relax its

:25:31. > :25:36.grip on the Commons timetable. We can speak now to the chair of the

:25:36. > :25:40.Backbench Business Committee, the Labour MP Natascha Engel. Welcome

:25:40. > :25:45.to the Daily Politics. Are you the most popular woman in Parliament?!

:25:45. > :25:52.I don't think so. It depends on who you talk to. Not with the

:25:52. > :25:57.Government. Backbench MPs are always eager to get their

:25:57. > :25:59.particular hobby-horse aired and they must come to you? Yes, and I

:25:59. > :26:04.think that has been the one innovation that we have introduced

:26:04. > :26:09.that has been successful. We are guided by what backbenchers bring

:26:09. > :26:15.to us rather than a community of it people just making up the bits as

:26:15. > :26:20.we go along. What criteria do you use? Topicality is very important.

:26:20. > :26:22.But we do look at making sure that we do not choose debates that are

:26:22. > :26:25.merely in opposition to the Government, we want to hold the

:26:25. > :26:29.Government to account and there is a subtle difference but it is

:26:29. > :26:36.important. We want cross-party support for debates, we don't just

:26:36. > :26:40.want... We have had this on everything. It isn't an extra

:26:40. > :26:44.vehicle for the opposition? It is for things that Parliament wants to

:26:44. > :26:48.discuss? Absolutely right. Which the executive might not want to

:26:49. > :26:52.discuss? If we look at the phone hacking scandal, for example, if

:26:52. > :26:55.the speaker had not wanted any urgent debate today, that is the

:26:55. > :26:59.sort of thing that the Government may not bring to the floor of the

:26:59. > :27:04.house and we now have a way of bringing a foreword by coming to

:27:04. > :27:08.the backbench committee. You have a Dragon's Den star performers. You

:27:08. > :27:12.have appeared in front of this? What did you have to do? Did you

:27:12. > :27:18.bring any invention? I had to bring Jack Straw! That is a little

:27:18. > :27:23.invention! And I made my case. Why does this matter? It was prisoners

:27:23. > :27:27.votes. Why did this matter? The House disagreed with the government

:27:28. > :27:31.line and so we wanted to make that point. And I think a change the

:27:31. > :27:35.Government's position. We got that you get, we had a huge debate with

:27:35. > :27:40.the huge turnout and it was a great victory on one side and the

:27:40. > :27:48.government had to change its position. Do the party whips try to

:27:48. > :27:53.influence you? Singing, I don't think that is a good idea. They are

:27:53. > :27:58.the wrong party whips! They don't try to influence me and they don't

:27:58. > :28:03.talk to me that often. Something the Labour whips may not like

:28:03. > :28:07.discussed? It has not worked out like that. What happens is that it

:28:07. > :28:09.really is the backbenchers. Sometimes there is a sense that

:28:09. > :28:15.backbenchers have been influenced a little bit by the party whips but

:28:15. > :28:20.we can see through that quickly. So, no, it isn't like that. What is the

:28:20. > :28:23.next did it? We have had all our time taken away and that is a

:28:23. > :28:27.problem, it is time allocated by government. Back to work in the

:28:27. > :28:34.autumn? Absolutely. Thank you for coming in and we will keep an eye

:28:34. > :28:42.on that. And the answer to our Guess the Year competition was 1985.

:28:42. > :28:46.Guess what? I think it was! We will check... We will not pick any