:00:23. > :00:25.Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics, on the day when the
:00:26. > :00:30.prospects of Rupert Murdoch taking over the whole of BSkyB are getting
:00:30. > :00:33.slimmer and slimmer. Labour is threatening a Parliamentary vote on
:00:33. > :00:36.the matter on Wednesday, and Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has
:00:36. > :00:43.this morning written to Ofcom and the Office of Fair Trading to ask
:00:43. > :00:49.for further advice on allowing the takeover. Almost everybody thinks
:00:49. > :00:52.the Government is looking for a way to stop the takeover. What will Mr
:00:52. > :00:54.Murdoch's next move be? After months of wrangling, the Government
:00:54. > :01:02.is finally about to release its public services white paper,
:01:02. > :01:05.promising power to the people. We'll examine the details.
:01:05. > :01:15.And we'll bring you tales of drunkeness and debauchery from the
:01:15. > :01:19.
:01:19. > :01:24.Why don't we get invited to those parties?
:01:24. > :01:26.I have never seen that! All that in the next half hour. With us for the
:01:26. > :01:30.duration, journalist Simon Jenkins, welcome to the show. Rupert Murdoch
:01:30. > :01:33.has flown into the country to give his support to Rebekah Brooks, who
:01:33. > :01:36.is likely this week to be interviewed by the police.
:01:36. > :01:39.Meanwhile, it has emerged this morning that Culture Secretary,
:01:39. > :01:46.Jeremy Hunt, is writing to Ofcom and the Office of Fair Trading to
:01:46. > :01:49.ask for further advice on whether there should be an inquiry. I also
:01:49. > :01:52.heard yesterday that they've just commissioned a new series of Dallas.
:01:52. > :01:58.I don't know why they bothered. There's much more intrigue, double-
:01:58. > :02:01.dealing and corporate bad behavious at Wapping.
:02:01. > :02:06.-- bad behaviour. Here's Adam Fleming with a round up of the
:02:06. > :02:10.story so far. Here are the comings and goings
:02:10. > :02:14.since your last tuned into The Daily Politics. Gone, the News of
:02:14. > :02:19.the World, 5 million copies were printed of the last ever edition.
:02:19. > :02:23.Coming, Rupert Murdoch touched down in the UK for a show of support for
:02:23. > :02:28.his top executive and former News of the World editor, Rebekah Brooks,
:02:28. > :02:32.and to see what effect his -- the scandal is having on his bid for
:02:32. > :02:36.the trunk of the satellite broadcaster BSkyB, which he doesn't
:02:36. > :02:41.already own -- the truck. Walking into Nick Clegg's office, the
:02:41. > :02:44.family of Milly Dowler, whose firm was allegedly hacked. The Deputy
:02:44. > :02:49.Prime Minister had this message for Mr Murdoch. I would say, look how
:02:49. > :02:53.people feel at honest. Look out the country has acted with revulsion to
:02:53. > :02:57.the revelations. So do the decent and sensible thing, and reconsider,
:02:57. > :03:00.think again about your bid for BSkyB.
:03:00. > :03:04.Arriving in the Commons on Wednesday, a motion to that effect
:03:04. > :03:09.from Labour, which is getting support from many Lib Dem MPs and
:03:09. > :03:13.some Tories. But potentially tromping that is a letter winging
:03:13. > :03:19.his way to the communications regulator of Comp, from the Culture
:03:19. > :03:25.Secretary, Jeremy Hunt -- Ofcom. Asking for fresh advice which could
:03:25. > :03:30.put the kibosh on that takeover. The advice I already have is that I
:03:30. > :03:34.should allow this deal to go ahead. But obviously in the last week, we
:03:34. > :03:38.have had some horrific revelations which I think have shocked everyone.
:03:38. > :03:41.I am writing back to them and saying, do you still stand behind
:03:41. > :03:46.the advice you gave me before, that this deal should be allowed to go
:03:46. > :03:50.ahead, or are there some new facts which have emerged that will cause
:03:50. > :03:55.you to change that advice? knows what the next headline will
:03:56. > :04:02.be in a story that's changing by the minute.
:04:02. > :04:07.It is indeed. Simon Jenkins has worked for News International, he
:04:07. > :04:10.knows the media scene back to front. It is pretty clear that if the
:04:10. > :04:15.government can find any possible way of stopping or delaying this
:04:15. > :04:19.together, they will do it. Yeah. ain't going out and if they can
:04:19. > :04:25.stop it. The politics is all over it now. They will do that and there
:04:25. > :04:29.are ways of doing it. Whether it matters is a different matter. It
:04:29. > :04:34.has become so toxic politically that they have got to do it.
:04:34. > :04:38.Labour Force did to a vote, it probably won't go to that, I would
:04:38. > :04:46.suggest Mr Cameron would have difficulty whipping his own side --
:04:46. > :04:53.forced it to a vote. He would lose This is increasing his shareholding
:04:53. > :04:56.in a company he already runs. A bigger story than famine in East
:04:56. > :05:04.Anglia -- East Africa? It is leading every news channel in
:05:04. > :05:09.Britain. You don't think we should? This is a commercial rival. The
:05:09. > :05:15.media are not dispassionate in this story, it is a masher -- matter of
:05:15. > :05:20.commercial rivalry. It is a watershed. Since Harold wasn't,
:05:20. > :05:23.prime ministers, or those who have wanted to be Prime Minister, have
:05:23. > :05:29.paid abeyance to Mr Murdoch -- since Harold Wilson. That ain't
:05:29. > :05:36.going to happen again. Yes, it will. Insofar as papers have power, media
:05:36. > :05:40.groups have power. They will do it again. Nothing will change.
:05:40. > :05:43.don't think that Mr Murdoch has become such a toxic figure that a
:05:43. > :05:47.politician would be better to try to get elected by saying he has got
:05:47. > :05:52.nothing to do with him? We can remember when he was a toxic vigour
:05:52. > :05:56.before, he has been all his life. He has never been a toxic figure in
:05:56. > :06:01.the way that it is because of the phone hacking. This week, yeah. And
:06:01. > :06:07.last week. We will see. I am not sure you are right on that. Tessa
:06:07. > :06:13.Jowell, good to see you. At what point did you and Labour decide
:06:13. > :06:19.that Mr Murdoch's ownership of so much media was maligned? I think it
:06:19. > :06:24.has been a continuing preoccupation, and when I was Culture Secretary, I
:06:24. > :06:30.made sure that the Communications Act had a provision in it to
:06:30. > :06:35.safeguard plurality, in the light of convergence, and to address
:06:35. > :06:40.precisely the kind of situation that we are in today, with News
:06:40. > :06:44.International wanting to acquire BSkyB. As Culture Secretary, you
:06:44. > :06:52.relaxed the rules on media ownership in this country. No, I
:06:52. > :06:56.made it easier for local newspapers to own up local radio stations.
:06:56. > :07:00.relaxed the laws, you made it easier for mergers and cross
:07:00. > :07:04.ownership of different kinds of media to happen. That was one of
:07:04. > :07:11.the purposes of the bill. I remember covering it at the time, a
:07:11. > :07:17.lot of people didn't like it. we safeguarded the fact of
:07:17. > :07:23.convergence, that people would read newspapers online. The threat to
:07:23. > :07:27.local newspapers. With the plurality provisions, to ensure
:07:27. > :07:32.that the number of voices and the range of views still predominated.
:07:32. > :07:35.An interesting rewriting of history. I don't think so. You were
:07:35. > :07:38.presented by the Information Commissioner with a report that
:07:38. > :07:42.showed the illegal gathering of information was rife in British
:07:42. > :07:46.newspapers, it was endemic, and the News of the World was not anywhere
:07:46. > :07:55.near the worst. Why did the last Labour government do nothing about
:07:55. > :07:59.that? We certainly should have done. Why didn't you? I don't think there
:07:59. > :08:02.is any good reason to explain why we didn't do anything about it. We
:08:02. > :08:11.certainly should have done. Because you were in bed with Rupert
:08:11. > :08:15.Murdoch? No. I think this is overstated. The focus now is on a
:08:15. > :08:21.news organisation which appears to have committed, in a pretty
:08:21. > :08:27.systematic way, a number of criminal acts. I think you have got
:08:27. > :08:32.to create a bit of sense of proportion about the inevitability
:08:32. > :08:38.that politicians like me and Bonn will have relationships, with
:08:38. > :08:43.newspaper editors. But will continue. It should be motivated by
:08:43. > :08:46.the public interest and not other interests. The relationships that
:08:46. > :08:50.New Labour had with Rupert Murdoch and his people were on a different
:08:50. > :08:55.level to relationships I have with various governments. Let me bring
:08:55. > :08:59.in Don Foster. You have got clean hands because Rupert Murdoch never
:08:59. > :09:03.thought you mattered and didn't want to waste his time dealing with
:09:03. > :09:08.the Lib Dems, who he thought were useless. You now have a free hand
:09:08. > :09:13.to do what you want. Am I right in saying, in so far as I can divine
:09:13. > :09:18.it, it is your party's policy that this takeover must not happen?
:09:18. > :09:23.don't want it to go ahead, that is certainly true. I am concerned
:09:23. > :09:27.about this rewriting of history about the Labour Party. 1996, John
:09:27. > :09:32.Major tried to control ownership of the media, when in opposition, the
:09:32. > :09:38.Labour Party opposed that, and Tony Blair flew over to America, to see
:09:38. > :09:43.Murdoch. We then had... Tessa says in 2003, they wanted to put
:09:43. > :09:46.plurality rules in. You didn't, it was only your backbenchers in the
:09:46. > :09:52.House of Lords who forced that upon you. You have done some rewriting
:09:52. > :09:57.of history as a, it was Australia he flew to, but never mind. --
:09:57. > :10:01.history yourself. I think events may make the vote below --
:10:01. > :10:06.irrelevant, but if it is a vote, will the Lib Dems vote against it
:10:06. > :10:14.one last? The real problems we all face is we all know what we want to
:10:14. > :10:17.achieve, the question is how you can do that. The issues to do with
:10:17. > :10:20.the competition arrangements in relation to the takeover are dealt
:10:21. > :10:25.with by the European Commission. The issues to do with fit and
:10:25. > :10:29.proper persons are dealt with an independent regulator, Ofcom. The
:10:29. > :10:33.issues to do with plurality, the range of voices, is in the hands of
:10:33. > :10:38.one person in a quasi judicial role, the Secretary of State. The
:10:38. > :10:43.question is, what can Parliament do that will achieve the end that we
:10:44. > :10:49.and the public want. I understand all that. Just be clear from the
:10:49. > :10:54.Lib Dems, you will split from your coalition partners, if need be, on
:10:54. > :10:58.this issue. We will do what we can, to prevent this merger going ahead,
:10:59. > :11:03.and to all of the inquiries have taken place, if we can do it
:11:03. > :11:09.legally. We can't go round and say other people have been acting
:11:09. > :11:14.illegally... I understand that. If it need be, you will vote with
:11:14. > :11:19.Labour? If the motion is one that delivers what we want and provides
:11:19. > :11:22.a legal route of doing it, that is likely to be... I haven't talked to
:11:22. > :11:27.my parliamentary colleagues yet, we have got to have those discussions,
:11:27. > :11:32.but I imagined that is what we are likely to do. All right. Your
:11:32. > :11:37.leader, Mr Miliband, has taken quite a lead in this and set the
:11:37. > :11:46.pace. Is he not running a huge risk, having Tom Baldwin as his press
:11:46. > :11:51.secretary? Of News International. He was recruited from The Times, as
:11:51. > :11:54.Bob Roberts was recruited from The Mirror. It is a good thing to have
:11:54. > :12:00.as your head of communications, somebody with frontline media
:12:00. > :12:03.experience. The mayor has also been up to quite a few dodgy ways of
:12:03. > :12:07.getting information -- The Mirror has also been. Is it sensible for
:12:07. > :12:11.someone who would like to be Prime Minister to surround themselves
:12:12. > :12:16.with red-top tabloid journalists? Tom Baldwin was not a red-top
:12:16. > :12:21.tabloid journalist. The chap from The Mirror was a. He was a
:12:21. > :12:24.journalist of repeat from The Times. Who has been accused of using
:12:24. > :12:27.someone to break into Lord Ashcroft's bank account.
:12:27. > :12:33.allegation which he has emphatically and categorically
:12:33. > :12:38.denied. So did Andy Coulson. think that this is a very
:12:38. > :12:43.dangerous... If I can say, improper line of questioning. An allegation
:12:43. > :12:47.was made in the newspaper yesterday. Tom Baldwin has flatly denied it,
:12:47. > :12:52.he has denied it to me and to the leader of the Labour Party. We put
:12:52. > :12:55.the same 0.2 the Tories about the employment of Andy Coulson. -- the
:12:55. > :13:00.same point to the Tories. Where does this line of questioning take
:13:00. > :13:05.us? When the truth comes out... are saying that in denying this
:13:05. > :13:15.allegation, Tom Baldwin is not telling the truth. I am saying that
:13:15. > :13:18.
:13:18. > :13:21.Mr Coulson denied many allegations And journalists shouldn't work for
:13:21. > :13:25.government. I have always thought that. It always ends in tears. It
:13:25. > :13:29.ended in tears with Alastair Campbell. The people who should
:13:29. > :13:35.work for government are civil servants. Bernard Ingham was a good
:13:35. > :13:38.press officer. He was a civil servant. We are on one side of the
:13:38. > :13:43.fence, they are on another side. And we should not jump over the
:13:43. > :13:48.fence. It always leads to this kind of mess. I think the whole thing
:13:48. > :13:53.has blown way out of proportion. The Andy Coulson affair was clearly
:13:53. > :13:57.sad, a lot of people are advised Cameron, including myself, don't
:13:57. > :14:02.get a red top editor in your office. I am afraid, I just think they have
:14:02. > :14:06.all got mud on their hands. We are going to have to leave it there. We
:14:06. > :14:10.have run out of time. We asked for someone from the government to talk
:14:10. > :14:14.about this, including from the Department of Culture, Media and
:14:14. > :14:20.Sport, but surprise, surprise, nobody wanted to come on. I don't
:14:20. > :14:23.know why. This afternoon, David Cameron will
:14:23. > :14:26.unveil his long-awaited plan to reform public services. I say long-
:14:26. > :14:29.awaited - in fact, this white paper has been delayed for months because
:14:29. > :14:32.of furious rows within government about the plans. Despite all this,
:14:32. > :14:34.the Prime Minister says he remains committed to transforming the way
:14:34. > :14:39.public services are delivered and ending the "top-downm "take what
:14:39. > :14:42.you're given" culture. So, Anita, will he get his way?
:14:42. > :14:45.Citizen Cameron wants to give "power to the people" with his new
:14:45. > :14:48.public services white paper. In a speech this afternoon, he will say,
:14:48. > :14:55."The old dogma that Whitehall knows best - it's gone. There will be
:14:55. > :14:58.more freedom, more choice and more local control." The white paper
:14:58. > :15:01.will mean that the state is no longer the default provider for
:15:01. > :15:04.public services. Instead, outside organisations, like charities,
:15:04. > :15:10.community groups and private companies, will be able to bid to
:15:10. > :15:13.run things like local health services, parks and libraries. The
:15:13. > :15:18.plans will also allow personal budgets so individuals can buy
:15:18. > :15:24.their own services. And there will be more payment by results, to
:15:24. > :15:27.encourage markets to develop across the public sector. The white paper
:15:27. > :15:29.was supposed to have been published in February, but the initial plan
:15:29. > :15:37.provoked a huge backlash from the unions, who accused Cameron of
:15:37. > :15:39.driving a Thatcherite-style privatisation agenda. The initial
:15:39. > :15:42.plans also sparked rows within government, between Cameron's
:15:42. > :15:52.policy guru, Steve Hilton, and some senior Conservatives and Lib Dems
:15:52. > :15:55.
:15:55. > :15:58.who had doubts. Andrew. Tessa Jowell, the Shadow Cabinet
:15:58. > :16:08.Office Minister, is still with us and I'm also joined by the
:16:08. > :16:10.
:16:10. > :16:14.Given the difficult birth of this White Paper, will it be stillborn?
:16:14. > :16:18.I do not think so. This creates a blueprint for the way we want
:16:18. > :16:21.public services to work in the future, to create an opportunity
:16:22. > :16:26.for diversity of provision and the people to take responsibility for
:16:26. > :16:30.running their own services. There are two nurses in my constituency
:16:30. > :16:33.who set up a community health partnership and are running a lot
:16:33. > :16:38.of community services in Mid Surrey better than was the case previously.
:16:38. > :16:43.That kind of model offers a blueprint for the way we can
:16:43. > :16:48.continue to deliver public services. But we entrust the poet --
:16:48. > :16:53.professionals to do it for us. can you assure us that your Lib Dem
:16:53. > :16:56.colleagues in the coalition are 100% behind these plans? Absolutely.
:16:56. > :17:01.We are bringing forward the white paper together this afternoon. It
:17:01. > :17:06.has the endorsement of both coalition partners. So the Lib Dems
:17:06. > :17:10.have not been kicking back in the formation of this White Paper?
:17:10. > :17:15.Lib Dem philosophy has always been about decentralisation. They have
:17:15. > :17:20.always been about local control and devolution. That did not work with
:17:20. > :17:24.health reform. I know what they stand for, but are you telling our
:17:24. > :17:29.viewers today that this comes with the wholehearted endorsement of
:17:29. > :17:34.your Lib Dem coalition partners? Yes, if you look at the things we
:17:34. > :17:37.are doing with the free schools policy and the work programme, the
:17:37. > :17:41.devolution of responsibility of welfare to work to third-party
:17:41. > :17:45.organisations, saying to them, you deliver what works, and we will pay
:17:45. > :17:51.you. Why did it take so long to see the light of day? It is a
:17:51. > :17:56.complicated policy. You want to make sure you get it right. There
:17:56. > :18:02.has been plenty of discussion on that. The two parties have one
:18:02. > :18:04.thing in common, which is a desire to devolve and decentralise, and a
:18:04. > :18:09.belief that the old adage of government knowing best is not
:18:09. > :18:13.quite. Tessa Jowell, your party in government was in favour of
:18:13. > :18:18.competition. Mr Blair used to complain that he was not allowed to
:18:18. > :18:26.do enough devolution. Why have you changed your mind? We have not
:18:27. > :18:31.changed our mind. However, I have not seen the white paper yet. There
:18:31. > :18:38.are three things that concern us about this. Firstly, there may be a
:18:38. > :18:43.lot in the rhetoric on which we can agree. But the test will be in the
:18:43. > :18:49.detail of how this is applied, specifically, perhaps Chris can
:18:50. > :18:56.give us assurances on this, that competition by price will not
:18:56. > :19:04.feature in the White Paper. Not at all? That it will not feature as
:19:04. > :19:11.the defining criteria for decentralising services to third
:19:11. > :19:15.sector organisations. Price is a factor, but so is quality. We look
:19:15. > :19:25.to both the quality of provision, not dictating what it should be,
:19:25. > :19:29.but seeing what people's ideas are, and then looking at price. But the
:19:29. > :19:34.reason the health service reform had to be knocked back was the
:19:34. > :19:43.insistence on competition by price being the driving force for
:19:43. > :19:47.commissioning healthcare. In the health service, you want both
:19:47. > :19:50.quality and price. Within the health service now, some hospitals
:19:50. > :19:57.operate more efficiently and can offer a comparable service at a
:19:57. > :20:00.lower price. We do not want to see a third party commercial
:20:00. > :20:05.organisations coming in and exploiting the health service for
:20:05. > :20:09.profit. And similarly community services? But within the health
:20:09. > :20:13.service, if you have a group of nurses who can take over the
:20:13. > :20:22.community service they operate and deliver it at a lower price, that
:20:22. > :20:27.is a good thing. I had a second question. You have already had two!
:20:27. > :20:31.Let's see what Simon says. It is probably the same thing. I am a
:20:31. > :20:40.fanatical localist and I have read the same document from both parties
:20:40. > :20:44.for year after year. Hazel Blears' White Paper was identical. The nub
:20:44. > :20:52.of it is privatisation, not localisation, and there you have
:20:52. > :21:00.problems. PFI has been a mess. Some of it has worked. Serco do good
:21:00. > :21:03.work running the congestion charge and so on. But other services are
:21:03. > :21:10.not benefited by privatisation. There are two different concepts.
:21:10. > :21:14.In focusing on the cliche power to the people, what does it mean? It
:21:14. > :21:19.does not mean power to local government. It does not mean
:21:19. > :21:25.devolving power to raise taxes locally. It is a vague concept of
:21:25. > :21:31.the community and neighbourhood, which hazel Blears had the concept
:21:31. > :21:37.of, and Tony Blair and Gordon Brown liked it. Let the localist - it
:21:37. > :21:45.does not mean anything. And your third question? My third question
:21:45. > :21:49.is about the stuff that was briefed yesterday, that schools and
:21:49. > :21:54.hospitals, under this new set of proposals, would be allowed to fail.
:21:54. > :22:00.Can you assure us that schools and hospitals will not be allowed to
:22:00. > :22:04.fail because of their commercialisation? Simon is asking
:22:04. > :22:09.what is different. Free schools are something we have already started.
:22:09. > :22:15.That is a radical new departure, saying to parents, if you believe
:22:15. > :22:19.you can run a school better than the school down the road, you can
:22:19. > :22:23.do that. I expect that the free schools to take pupils away from
:22:23. > :22:27.the failing schools if they are good. And will the other school
:22:27. > :22:31.therefore close? I am confident that we will see improvements in
:22:31. > :22:38.standards across the board. But logically, if a failing school
:22:38. > :22:44.comes under pressure from a school that is doing well, that may happen.
:22:44. > :22:52.You have run out of questions. will have my chance later. Both of
:22:52. > :22:59.you should come back again. All this arguing is enough to drive
:22:59. > :23:06.you to drink. That seems to be the case for MPs and their researchers.
:23:06. > :23:10.In the bowels of Parliament, there is a place, a bar called the Sports
:23:10. > :23:15.and Social, where they do not play sports. And sometimes things are
:23:15. > :23:19.anti-social. It is a place where the hard working parliamentary
:23:19. > :23:23.staff can let off a bit of steam. But it seems they might have been
:23:23. > :23:33.overdoing it a bit, and in a bid to stop raucous behaviour, Black Rod,
:23:33. > :23:38.no less, has limited the number of guests allowed in.
:23:38. > :23:43.In the Palace of Westminster, that icon of sober democracy, trouble
:23:43. > :23:47.has been brewing. In Parliament's Central lobby, you get what he
:23:47. > :23:51.expect, the guilt, the grandeur, the statues of past politicians.
:23:52. > :23:56.But right under my feet is a part of hidden Parliament, the Sports
:23:56. > :24:04.and Social bar. And down there, things have been going a little
:24:04. > :24:13.awry. # But all I found was cigarettes
:24:13. > :24:16.and alcohol. The Sports and Social baris in the bowels of the building,
:24:16. > :24:21.behind the trash compared to, to give you an idea of what it is like.
:24:21. > :24:26.It is like an old working man's club. It smells of booze. It has a
:24:26. > :24:32.trophy cabinet and boards telling you who is the darts champion.
:24:32. > :24:36.There are MPs' researchers, about 3000 of them. The rest are staff of
:24:36. > :24:42.the house, maintenance workers, cleaners, catering staff. They make
:24:42. > :24:46.up the largest client base. It is a place where the researchers can go
:24:46. > :24:49.and bring their friends. What went wrong? They became a bit too
:24:49. > :24:55.enthusiastic about bringing their friends in. In the last Parliament,
:24:55. > :24:58.there was a bar where the Tory researchers used to drink. And the
:24:58. > :25:03.Sports and Social was whether Labour researchers would drink.
:25:03. > :25:08.of the staff bars was closed down recently, so it was an issue of too
:25:08. > :25:11.many groups of people using the same bar. There was a problem with
:25:11. > :25:17.the researchers having a bit too much to drink, forgetting that
:25:17. > :25:24.their guests were only guests, and they were leaving people without
:25:24. > :25:28.passes to wander around full of drink. Blackwood has ruled only two
:25:28. > :25:33.guests per member of staff on certain nights. There is an urban
:25:33. > :25:39.myth that it is a subsidised bar. It is not. They have lower
:25:39. > :25:42.overheads, but prices are set at market rates. It is important for
:25:42. > :25:49.both researchers and MPs that they have places they can go and relax
:25:49. > :25:54.with colleagues without the public listening over their shoulder.
:25:54. > :25:59.her Black Rod's rules observed, that allows insiders to continue to
:25:59. > :26:05.drink for Britain. As Chris Grayling was leaving, he
:26:05. > :26:09.said, I do not even know where it is. Two people who do know where it
:26:09. > :26:13.is are two Westminster veterans known to have the odd swift half in
:26:13. > :26:17.the parliamentary bars, Labour's Austin Mitchell and Kevin Maguire
:26:17. > :26:26.from the Mirror. Austin Mitchell, what kind of bad behaviour has
:26:26. > :26:30.there been? Very occasional fights. In my time, two MPs fell down the
:26:30. > :26:35.steps going home. One suffered brain damage, and that was
:26:35. > :26:42.noticeable -- not noticeable, of course, in the Commons. One of the
:26:42. > :26:47.Tory whips was something of an alcoholic. We used to get a
:26:47. > :26:57.uproariously drunk. But drinking happens far less now. We do not
:26:57. > :26:59.
:26:59. > :27:09.have all-night sittings any more. And there are more women. Some have
:27:09. > :27:10.
:27:10. > :27:14.died of alcoholism. Allegedly! Kevin, it begs the question, why is
:27:14. > :27:18.there a drinking club in the bowels of Westminster? You are meant to be
:27:18. > :27:22.working. They are supposed to be off duty when they are there.
:27:22. > :27:27.Whether they are is another matter. It is to keep them on site. Do you
:27:27. > :27:31.think pubs want these parliamentary researchers? You get the sense that
:27:31. > :27:37.there is a lot of pressure and they need a place to let off steam. Was
:27:37. > :27:46.it a mistake to close down one of the bars? De new Tory lot are very
:27:46. > :27:55.thirsty. One of them collapsed and could not vote. Allegedly. He was
:27:55. > :27:59.poured into a taxi. I know he did admit it. But it is nothing like it
:27:59. > :28:04.used to be. I do not know why they do not ban drinking altogether.
:28:04. > :28:08.They have banned smoking. A male guest collapsed recently. His wife
:28:08. > :28:14.came to pick him up, and she collapsed. There was a lot of
:28:14. > :28:21.drunkenness. There was less drinking when I arrived at the
:28:21. > :28:26.House of Commons, a long time ago, than there was at the BBC. Nobody
:28:26. > :28:32.drinks now. We have no hospitality here. We did not even give you
:28:32. > :28:35.water today. The main drinking used to be where the journalists went.
:28:35. > :28:39.Tony Blair used to have a whisky and half a bottle of wine, and
:28:39. > :28:49.thought he was becoming an alcoholic. They are sadly out of
:28:49. > :28:54.time. I say thanks to all our guests.