13/07/2011

:00:21. > :00:24.Good morning and welcome to the Daily Politics, as the Prime

:00:24. > :00:28.Minister prepares to name a judge to lead two inquiries into phone

:00:28. > :00:34.hacking. MPs of all parties unite to urge Rupert Murdoch to drop his

:00:34. > :00:37.bid for BskyB. We'll have the latest.

:00:37. > :00:41.Up to 2,000 rank and file police officers will be descending on

:00:41. > :00:43.Westminster to protest against budget cuts and a pay freeze. But

:00:43. > :00:48.how much has the phone hacking scandal eroded any public sympathy

:00:48. > :00:51.for their position? And what about those issues which

:00:51. > :00:57.usually make the political weather? Could weak growth blow the

:00:57. > :01:00.Government's plans for the economy off course?

:01:00. > :01:10.And is a lack of runways in the South East putting the brakes on

:01:10. > :01:12.

:01:12. > :01:15.And before we all pack off on our hols, with us for the duration for

:01:15. > :01:20.the this last Daily Politics of the summer is the man who'll be getting

:01:20. > :01:23.us there, Transport Secretary, Phillip Hammond. And hitching up

:01:23. > :01:33.her Bailey Pegasus 514 is former Labour Minister and keen caravaner,

:01:33. > :01:34.

:01:34. > :01:37.Margaret Beckett. I thought that was a motorbike!

:01:37. > :01:40.The Prime Minister will attempt to get on the front foot over the

:01:40. > :01:43.phone hacking scandal. He'll be making a statement to MPs just

:01:43. > :01:53.after Prime Minister's Questions, on how the inquiry into phone

:01:53. > :01:53.

:01:53. > :01:56.hacking will be set up. That will be just after 12:30pm.

:01:56. > :02:03.And then later today, MPs will support en masse a Labour motion

:02:03. > :02:13.calling on Rupert Murdoch's News Corp to abandon its bid for BskyB.

:02:13. > :02:15.

:02:15. > :02:20.That will probably be in the early evening. If there is a vote. There

:02:20. > :02:24.will be about a three-hour debate. The government are having to run

:02:24. > :02:29.fast to keep up with public opinion and the opposition, isn't it?

:02:29. > :02:32.are very clear where public opinion is, and what our own feelings are.

:02:32. > :02:38.The government, unlike the opposition, and to some extent the

:02:38. > :02:43.media, is constrained by what the law requires it to do, what the

:02:43. > :02:47.legal processes are. We are now in a position, because Rupert Murdoch

:02:47. > :02:51.withdrew the assurances he had given around the BSkyB bid, we are

:02:51. > :02:56.in a position to refer that to the Competition Commission and that has

:02:56. > :03:00.been done. You will vote for the Labour motion tonight? If there is

:03:00. > :03:04.a vote, absolutely. I suspect all Members of Parliament will agree on

:03:04. > :03:08.this and nobody will be willing to shout no, and therefore it will go

:03:08. > :03:13.through by unanimity. That is by acclamation, but it doesn't count

:03:13. > :03:18.the votes. If you want to let Mr Murdoch know what our parliament

:03:18. > :03:21.really thinks of him, and his desire to get the rest of BSkyB,

:03:21. > :03:25.shouldn't you count the votes? think it is a really interesting

:03:25. > :03:29.question that you have put your finger on. There won't be anybody

:03:29. > :03:35.who wants to say, by shouting no, that there will be a vote.

:03:35. > :03:38.don't you shout no? Thanks! not? It would be a matter of

:03:39. > :03:43.twisting somebody's arm. People will be discussing whether that is

:03:43. > :03:47.the best way to go, or whether to say, there is so much unanimity,

:03:47. > :03:51.nobody wants to go, might be an even more powerful message --

:03:51. > :03:54.nobody wants to vote. The premise that has changed his tune several

:03:54. > :03:58.times, it took him a while to agree to having a judge lead inquiry. It

:03:58. > :04:04.was only when the story became too horrific to ignore that he agreed

:04:04. > :04:07.on that. He initially told the BBC he would do the debate tonight,

:04:07. > :04:11.then he said he wouldn't. He doesn't really know what he is

:04:11. > :04:14.doing. The Prime Minister said very clearly from the outset, there

:04:14. > :04:19.would have to be a judge Legg inquiry, he made that very clear

:04:19. > :04:22.last week. Excuse me, he made it clear last week but there have been

:04:22. > :04:26.calls for an inquiry long before last week. Once the story started

:04:26. > :04:30.to break, the Prime Minister was very clear there would have to be a

:04:30. > :04:35.judge lead inquiry. The question tonight, won the debate today, is

:04:35. > :04:39.about how best for everybody to have their say. -- on the debate.

:04:39. > :04:41.The Prime Minister will make a statement and that is the proper

:04:41. > :04:46.way for prime ministers to set out the Government's plans. There will

:04:46. > :04:50.then be a debate which is primarily a chance for Parliament to have its

:04:50. > :04:53.say, for backbenchers to have its say. Many more speakers have put

:04:53. > :04:57.their names forward than will be able to speak, so I don't think it

:04:57. > :05:00.will be helpful for a prime minister to again repeat what he

:05:00. > :05:05.has already said in his statement, chewing up time when backbenchers

:05:05. > :05:09.could be debating this issue. Miliband is having a bit of a field

:05:09. > :05:14.day. Most commentators think he has set the pace. He has led on this,

:05:14. > :05:18.completely. It is not through courage, is it? He only turned on

:05:18. > :05:22.Mr Murdoch after he was already doubtful but two weeks ago, he was

:05:22. > :05:29.paying obeisance at Mr Murdoch's summer party. He never raised any

:05:29. > :05:33.of that. He is kicking Mr Murdoch because he is not powerful. I have

:05:33. > :05:37.heard you say enough things about the Murdoch empire and about Rupert

:05:37. > :05:42.Murdoch's attitude to things. I thought that when Ed came out and

:05:42. > :05:46.said what he did about the BSkyB bid and the hacking, I thought it

:05:46. > :05:51.was a classic Yes Minister moment. You could hear Sir Humphrey in the

:05:51. > :05:55.background going, that is very brave. It was. It would have been

:05:55. > :05:59.braver to do it too was three years ago. Some of us were critical of Mr

:05:59. > :06:03.Murdoch when he had the power to strike back. Your leader has been

:06:03. > :06:07.critical now he has not got the power to strike back for a Ed was

:06:07. > :06:10.not the leader two or three years ago, he is now. He stepped forward

:06:10. > :06:14.when it was not clear how this was going to go. It was a very bold

:06:14. > :06:17.thing that he did and everybody else has had to follow. If he

:06:17. > :06:22.hadn't stepped forward, I doubt we would be in the position we are in

:06:22. > :06:28.today. What do you say to that? If Mr Miliband hadn't set the pace,

:06:28. > :06:33.even though the going was Elia -- was easier, we wouldn't be here

:06:33. > :06:38.today. I don't think this is getting us anywhere. Whether it is

:06:38. > :06:41.a lot, the viewers is -- will decide, what is the answer? I think

:06:41. > :06:45.the viewers will have decided, all politicians were too close to the

:06:45. > :06:49.Murdoch empire. We know the previous Labour administration were

:06:50. > :06:54.very close. David Cameron has been clear, he now sees that we were too

:06:54. > :06:58.close to the Murdoch empire, and we all now need to distance ourselves

:06:59. > :07:03.from the media. Would you like to answer this question or have 30

:07:03. > :07:08.seconds silence to contemplate? When Gordon Brown says, he never

:07:08. > :07:14.had a good relationship with News International. I think that is

:07:14. > :07:18.probably right, actually. Why did he go to Rebekah Wade's wedding?

:07:18. > :07:23.Let me give you a slightly different example. I have heard

:07:23. > :07:27.repeatedly, look how Tony Blair flew to Australia. I have always

:07:27. > :07:30.thought that was an issue that should be turned on its head. If

:07:30. > :07:34.you have an invitation to go to something and you say, certainly

:07:34. > :07:40.not, when you are in a position of being a political leader, whatever

:07:40. > :07:44.your party, you are uttering a deliberate public snub. Why did Mrs

:07:44. > :07:48.Brown invite Rebekah Wade to Chequers for a sleep over? Well...

:07:48. > :07:52.That sentence, never had a good relationship, cannot stand. He is

:07:52. > :07:57.talking about with News International, not individual

:07:57. > :08:00.journalists. He has said he had huge respect for Rupert Murdoch.

:08:00. > :08:04.Rupert Murdoch was at Chequers over the weekend that Gordon Brown made

:08:04. > :08:07.the decision to pull the 2007 election. If that isn't indicative

:08:07. > :08:12.of the closeness of the relationship, I don't know what is.

:08:12. > :08:18.Sometimes, 30 seconds silence works well stop lots of people go to

:08:18. > :08:21.up to 2,000 police officers are descending on Westminster this

:08:21. > :08:24.lunchtime. No, they're not all being questioned by MPs, but

:08:24. > :08:27.protesting at cuts to the police and a Government imposed pay freeze.

:08:27. > :08:29.I'm joined from their day of action by Simon Reed, who's vice-chairman

:08:29. > :08:37.of the Police Federation, who represent rank and file police

:08:37. > :08:41.officers. Thank you for taking time out for us. I wonder, in the light

:08:41. > :08:46.of this tacking scandal, how much it has heard your cause. Your

:08:46. > :08:51.reputation as the police is not flying very high -- hurt your cause.

:08:51. > :08:56.There are three profession to have been harmed by this. Journalists,

:08:56. > :09:01.politicians, police officers. We have a very few number of reach. I

:09:01. > :09:05.hear what you are saying, -- of each. I think you will find it is a

:09:05. > :09:09.very few number at the moment. It affects all three professions are.

:09:09. > :09:15.Do you know of any police officers who have taken money from

:09:15. > :09:23.journalists? No, I don't, not at all. Are you surprised that the

:09:23. > :09:26.practice went on? Yes, I am surprised. I imagine that

:09:26. > :09:31.yourselves as journalists are surprised, and politicians are

:09:31. > :09:34.surprised at their own professions. We are where we are. We have

:09:34. > :09:39.investigations going on. We can't speculate, we have to let those

:09:39. > :09:43.inquiries happen and see what outcomes they are. I won't ask you

:09:43. > :09:47.to speculate but react. Maybe you saw Andy Hayman, you could not have

:09:47. > :09:54.avoided hearing his submissions to the select committee. Were you a

:09:54. > :10:00.bit embarrassed by the kind of South we have certain views about

:10:00. > :10:04.what was said by all of them. are those views? We would love you

:10:04. > :10:08.to share them with us. What did you make of what you heard senior

:10:08. > :10:11.police officers saying to the select committee? Some of us were

:10:11. > :10:15.quite surprised at how inadequate some of the responses were. We have

:10:15. > :10:19.also got to accept, they are speaking from memory, they don't

:10:19. > :10:23.have notes, they have left the service. We have to put it in

:10:23. > :10:28.context. The majority of people I have spoken to were surprised at

:10:28. > :10:32.how poor Andy Hayman was. Let's talk about the protest today.

:10:32. > :10:36.Everybody is facing cuts, surely the police have got to take their

:10:36. > :10:41.fair share as well? Indeed, we have always accepted that. We said from

:10:41. > :10:45.a year ago, the 12% cut that Her Majesty's Inspectorate was saying

:10:45. > :10:51.is possible over four years, we accepted that, and we were prepared

:10:51. > :10:54.to help the government to do the 12% cut. But we have seen 20%, an

:10:54. > :10:59.additional �1 billion out of policing. That is what our concerns

:10:59. > :11:02.are. I wonder if it is wise to take such an aggressive stance. You are

:11:02. > :11:05.meant to be neutral but taking a very aggressive stance when it

:11:05. > :11:10.comes to the government. During a Police Federation conference in May,

:11:10. > :11:14.Theresa May had to sit through a video talking about cuts, and you

:11:14. > :11:20.had the music from the Kaiser Chiefs's I predict a riot, it is

:11:20. > :11:23.hardly a neutral stance. Why would it be a neutral stance? We work in

:11:23. > :11:28.a vacation we are proud to be part of. We know what is happening in

:11:28. > :11:32.terms of policing and what the cuts will mean. We know that there is an

:11:33. > :11:36.issue of crime and public safety. We need to get our message across,

:11:36. > :11:44.sometimes we do it in a robust way. We don't make any apologies for how

:11:44. > :11:48.Philip Hammond, they don't like you very much, and it is an odd and

:11:48. > :11:52.peculiar situation for a Conservative minister to be in,

:11:52. > :11:54.when you hear a policeman having such antipathy towards a

:11:54. > :11:58.Conservative-led coalition government. I should start by

:11:58. > :12:04.saying, we do like them, are great admirers and respecters of the

:12:04. > :12:07.police. They don't feel like to, they feel you are cutting service

:12:07. > :12:12.to the bone for us that they have to change, as other parts of the

:12:12. > :12:20.public service have to change. are talking about a 14% real terms

:12:20. > :12:26.change in police funding -- real- terms cut. We are talking about a

:12:26. > :12:31.service which still has some very considerable changes that it can

:12:31. > :12:35.make, in labour practices, in the amount of overtime used, that will

:12:35. > :12:38.make it more efficient and effective. Get more police officers

:12:38. > :12:44.out onto the front line and deliver a better service to the public.

:12:44. > :12:47.There is some fog over how many cuts will go into front line

:12:48. > :12:57.services and there was a leaked memo to the Guardian, predicting a

:12:58. > :13:04.

:13:04. > :13:10.That is assuming there would be no contribution from local precepts.

:13:10. > :13:16.On the wider issue, how has the image of the police force been

:13:16. > :13:21.damaged by hack date, or as others are saying, everything gate. I hope

:13:21. > :13:27.that the public are drawing a distinction between the bobby on

:13:27. > :13:33.the beat, and the small Quatre of officers that appear to be

:13:33. > :13:36.implicated in this kind of activity. I don't think this will dent public

:13:36. > :13:42.confidence in their local police forces, who they see as

:13:42. > :13:47.tremendously important and part of their community. Are there a few

:13:47. > :13:50.rotten apples or is this endemic? think we are talking about rotten M

:13:50. > :13:55.-- rotten apples. I am sure the policeman hate that when someone is

:13:55. > :14:01.pulling out with the police, they will throw this in their face. --

:14:01. > :14:03.falling out. I also agree that most people won't think it is the police

:14:04. > :14:08.they deal with day-to-day. One of the most excellent things that has

:14:08. > :14:12.come out of our period in office is that we have this neighbourhood...

:14:12. > :14:15.People know the local police who on the beach, they have their mobile

:14:15. > :14:19.numbers and so on. They are not going to put those people in the

:14:19. > :14:22.same category. On the of it face of it, some good

:14:22. > :14:32.news on the economy this morning, with unemployment falling by some

:14:32. > :14:36.26,000. That is a measure which most economists -- economists think

:14:36. > :14:39.is the most accurate way of measuring unemployment. But at the

:14:39. > :14:41.same time, the number claiming Job Seekers' Allowance increased by

:14:41. > :14:45.almost the same amount and the Employment Minister, Chris Grayling,

:14:45. > :14:55.warned that the "road to recovery would be choppy." It's it may be

:14:55. > :14:58.

:14:58. > :15:02.because of the government's welfare Questions about the growth of the

:15:02. > :15:06.economy, rather than unemployment or prices, are now taking centre

:15:06. > :15:11.stage. If there isn't growth, it could wash away the Chancellor's

:15:11. > :15:15.plans for reducing the deficit and getting the economy going. Anita

:15:15. > :15:18.has the details. Yes, just as Andrew is getting

:15:18. > :15:21.ready to hit Magaluf for the summer, the Chancellor of the Exchequer is

:15:21. > :15:28.also off to the seaside. But the ominous waves on the horizon

:15:28. > :15:31.threaten to destroy all his pretty work of rebuilding the economy.

:15:31. > :15:37.First, there's the growth problem. Last November, the Office for

:15:37. > :15:41.Budget Responsibility said growth for 2011 would be 2.1%. In March,

:15:41. > :15:48.they revised this down to 1.7%. But the average independent forecast

:15:48. > :15:51.has now fallen to 1.5%, and shows no sign of stopping there. And

:15:51. > :15:59.looking at the last three months, the NIESR think tank thinks the

:15:59. > :16:02.economy grew by just 0.1%. The Chancellor will get the official

:16:02. > :16:05.figure on 26 July, but with the economy stagnating over the

:16:05. > :16:08.previous six months, that would mean growth of just 0.1% in nine

:16:08. > :16:13.months - raising questions over how the Government can possibly cut the

:16:13. > :16:16.deficit. And the Chancellor will also be concerned about

:16:16. > :16:22.manufacturing. The accountancy firm BDO's optimism index has fallen by

:16:22. > :16:23.26 points from February to June. The problems in UK manufacturing

:16:23. > :16:31.have become synonymous with the Derby-based train-builder,

:16:31. > :16:36.Bombardier. They have said they will shed 1,400 jobs after missing

:16:36. > :16:46.out on the Thameslink contract. Today, union leaders met with the

:16:46. > :16:51.

:16:51. > :16:57.Transport Secretary, Philip Hammond, Philip Hammond, starting with

:16:57. > :17:01.Bombardier, on how did the meeting go? A meeting with the unions was

:17:01. > :17:08.primarily to discuss the reform agenda and the McNulty report. They

:17:08. > :17:16.asked if they could raise the Bombardier issue. I answered their

:17:16. > :17:22.questions. So there is no joy? procurement carried out was carried

:17:22. > :17:27.out properly within the narrow confines of what was set out in the

:17:27. > :17:31.procurement that Labour started in 2008. I did not have, and it does

:17:31. > :17:37.not matter how many opposition politicians assert that I did have,

:17:37. > :17:42.I did not have the flexibility to award... Just for clarification,

:17:42. > :17:46.the union meeting this morning has changed nothing as far as the

:17:46. > :17:51.contract is concerned? That is right. I wanted to talk with the

:17:51. > :17:56.unions about how I think, going forward, we can and must look at

:17:56. > :18:00.the way that we procure these big public contracts, to make sure that

:18:00. > :18:06.we give British business a fair chance. Margaret Beckett, my right

:18:06. > :18:09.in thinking that Bombardier is inure constituency? It is a big

:18:09. > :18:17.issue for the British economy and a big issue for your area, given the

:18:17. > :18:20.jobs and the skills involved. The Government's case is that the way

:18:20. > :18:24.in which the contract was constructed under the Labour

:18:24. > :18:29.government meant that it was a narrow contract and they could not

:18:30. > :18:36.take wider considerations into account, and they had to give it to

:18:36. > :18:40.Siemens in Germany. That is their case. But as Philip is well aware,

:18:40. > :18:48.there are quite a number of questions around that argument.

:18:48. > :18:53.From my point of view, I do not agree that this was done and dusted,

:18:53. > :18:58.cut-and-dried and there was no choice. Why not? Partly because it

:18:58. > :19:03.appears that the argument is that a lot of this was because of the

:19:03. > :19:07.finance. Siemens is now a bank. I have only recently realised this.

:19:07. > :19:11.It was able to put its balance sheet of behind this order and that

:19:11. > :19:16.may, rather than the quality of the trains, have been the thing that

:19:16. > :19:19.caused it. Was it? It was a factor. One of the things I have said to

:19:19. > :19:26.Margaret and publicly is that I do not think the way the procurement

:19:26. > :19:32.was structured was most helpful. Why should Siemens being a bank

:19:32. > :19:35.affect the decision? Because Siemens is a company with a very

:19:35. > :19:41.strong credit rating. It has a massive balance-sheet and it is

:19:41. > :19:46.able to borrow money more cheaply than Bombardier. Is that not an

:19:46. > :19:52.unfair situation? The contract was structured as a requirement for

:19:52. > :19:58.somebody to build the trains, or one and finance them over 30 years.

:19:58. > :20:01.The cost of financing was part of the structure. I am not blaming

:20:01. > :20:07.Labour politicians. I think this is about a culture in the public

:20:07. > :20:13.sector,... You don't blame them but to make it clear that the hands --

:20:13. > :20:17.your hands were tied, is that not right? We do not think it is.

:20:17. > :20:21.is what he is saying. I understand that. Philip is in the position all

:20:21. > :20:25.ministers are run. He is being given information by civil servants.

:20:25. > :20:29.If you look at the tender as it was drawn up, you can argue that was a

:20:29. > :20:37.poor process, and I agree we need a different one for the future, but

:20:37. > :20:40.within that, the Department for Transport kept explicitly the

:20:40. > :20:46.decision to handle financing separately. They had two

:20:46. > :20:50.opportunities to actually trigger that separate decision. Let me

:20:50. > :20:53.answer that. I have specifically looked at this issue. The ability

:20:53. > :20:58.for asked to intervene is only at the preferred bidder stage. We

:20:58. > :21:03.could say to Siemens that having appointed the preferred bidder, we

:21:03. > :21:06.do not like the package and we want to nominate banks to provide 50% of

:21:06. > :21:13.the financing. But that would not run to the preferred bidder status.

:21:13. > :21:19.I have looked at this. Certainly, it is a tragedy for the people at

:21:19. > :21:24.bomb RDA. A tragedy we are trying to avert. -- Bombardier. Let me

:21:24. > :21:29.look at the economy. Economic data out this week. If you look at what

:21:29. > :21:35.is happening in the Eurozone, the reason why the right these massive

:21:35. > :21:40.downgrades on the debt of Greece, Portugal and Ireland, and now Italy

:21:40. > :21:44.in trouble too, they have this massive debt but there are

:21:44. > :21:47.economies are barely growing. Some are actually declining, so the

:21:47. > :21:52.markets have concluded that they will not make the money to be able

:21:52. > :21:56.to pay back the debt. Britain has Floodline for six months, and a

:21:56. > :22:02.quarter that has just ended looks like it is going to be weak.

:22:02. > :22:08.Minister, are we not in danger of ending up in the same position? --

:22:08. > :22:12.Britain has a flat wind. There are two major differences. First of all,

:22:12. > :22:17.we are not in the Eurozone. We are able to adjust the value of our

:22:17. > :22:22.currency for. We have done that already. It is already down 25%.

:22:22. > :22:26.may happen again. You think it should go more? We do not make

:22:26. > :22:30.predictions on the exchange rate but Britain has a currency. The

:22:30. > :22:36.exchange rate can change to reflect the reality we are in. Greece,

:22:36. > :22:42.Ireland, Portugal, Italy, Spain do not. They are locked into a fixed

:22:42. > :22:46.exchange rate mechanism. The second point is that we have taken clear

:22:46. > :22:53.and decisive action to resolve the problems in the public finances in

:22:53. > :22:59.a way that the markets find satisfactory. Right now, Britain

:22:59. > :23:03.has a level debt which is similar to Portugal's in relation to GDP,

:23:03. > :23:06.yet we have interest rates very similar to Germany's. The market

:23:06. > :23:09.has given Britain the benefit of the doubt because they have seen

:23:09. > :23:15.that we have a credible plan and that we are determined to deliver

:23:15. > :23:19.it. If we waver in that determination, then the markets

:23:19. > :23:24.will start to struggle. So the position is there is still no Plan

:23:24. > :23:31.B. Regardless of the Kroll problems, what the minister says about the

:23:31. > :23:36.markets have been sunk confidence in the deficit reduction plan,

:23:37. > :23:39.based at bended judgment in the election campaign. -- they

:23:39. > :23:47.suspended judgement. They suspended judgment to wait until the campaign

:23:47. > :23:54.was over. The race no alternative to deficit reduction. Everybody

:23:54. > :23:58.agrees that there is no alternative. But by their scale? We do not

:23:58. > :24:02.accept that. Then you could end up in trouble. Well, if you look at

:24:02. > :24:06.sales of long-term gilts before the election, it was perfectly clear.

:24:06. > :24:10.Every time I hear this conversation about George Osborne, I think he

:24:10. > :24:14.was hoisted by his own petard. He was very responsible and

:24:14. > :24:19.competition -- in opposition. All that rubbish about us being in the

:24:19. > :24:24.same position as Greece, it was not true, but if the markets start to

:24:24. > :24:28.believe it, we will all suffer. markets would have believed George

:24:28. > :24:38.Osborne rather than Gordon Brown, who would have thought? Last night,

:24:38. > :24:39.

:24:39. > :24:46.some lucky person here in the UK hit the jackpot. They did not win a

:24:46. > :24:50.Daily Politics mug, but they would have wanted to. They won �161

:24:50. > :24:58.million on the EuroMillions lottery. Isn't it good to live in a country

:24:58. > :25:08.where effort and hard work and application gets you on in society?

:25:08. > :25:09.

:25:09. > :25:14.There are, however, some things which money cannot buy.

:25:14. > :25:18.Unless you go on eBay! I knew she was going to say that! To be in

:25:18. > :25:21.with a chance of winning, he will have to enter our Guess The Year

:25:21. > :25:31.competition. We will remind you how in just a

:25:31. > :25:40.

:25:40. > :25:50.moment. First, can you remember We hope to create a shield against

:25:50. > :25:55.

:25:55. > :26:05.aggression, and the fear of We shall also show that we are not

:26:05. > :26:13.

:26:13. > :26:23.just the nation of shopkeepers. -- In these 49 cars is the heart of

:26:23. > :26:49.

:26:49. > :26:57.A flurry of guesses here. To be in with a chance of winning, just send

:26:57. > :27:02.your answer to our special e-mail address: Full terms and conditions

:27:02. > :27:08.on our website. I think it was a very important

:27:08. > :27:13.year. Very important in my household. A very, very important

:27:13. > :27:16.here. Coming up to midday, Big Ben behind

:27:16. > :27:21.us. It can only mean one thing, Prime Minister's Questions is on

:27:22. > :27:25.its way. It is the final PMQs of the summer season. There will be no

:27:25. > :27:29.more until September, which means that we will not be seen Nick

:27:29. > :27:34.Robinson at this time of the day, but we do today. We were all

:27:34. > :27:38.assuming that PMQs will be dominated by the Murdoch scandal,

:27:38. > :27:44.but it does not end there. At 12:30pm, the Prime Minister will

:27:44. > :27:49.stand up again and tell us? We will get a statement from him and, in a

:27:49. > :27:53.sense, it battle for the control of the agenda. Ed Miliband has led the

:27:53. > :27:57.way with the motion that we will see afterwards, emotion which

:27:57. > :28:00.everyone will support. The Prime Minister is desperate. It looks

:28:00. > :28:05.like he, and not a Labour leader, is in the driving seat. He will

:28:05. > :28:15.announce the name of the judge who will lead this inquiry. It will be

:28:15. > :28:15.

:28:15. > :28:20.one, not two inquiries. Two faces. The new approach to transparency in

:28:20. > :28:23.Minister's meetings with media moguls. At the moment, you only get

:28:23. > :28:27.that information if they have met on official premises but from now

:28:27. > :28:32.on, I think we will get something that suggests that even a meeting

:28:32. > :28:39.in the Prime Minister's flat for his constituency or a form of

:28:39. > :28:42.meeting at a party will be revealed publicly. That will be interesting.

:28:42. > :28:47.In Piers Morgan's diaries, it came out that the Prime Minister, Mr

:28:47. > :28:51.Blair at the time, had seen the editor of the miniature -- the

:28:51. > :28:56.editor of the male I think 65 times, which made a lot of people wonder,

:28:56. > :29:01.why are you seeing Piers Morgan 65 times? Is that has to become public,

:29:01. > :29:05.you will think about that. Not only that, but how will journalism work

:29:05. > :29:09.if every meeting asked to be made public? Things are said

:29:09. > :29:13.confidentially to journalists. What I do not know is whether there will

:29:13. > :29:16.be a distinction between people who control newspaper groups or own a

:29:16. > :29:18.newspaper groups and the journalists. The reason the Prime

:29:18. > :29:25.Minister did not spell this out is because instantly civil servants

:29:25. > :29:31.pointed out these problems, say if you see the economics editor, if

:29:31. > :29:34.you're the Chancellor, and you reveal that you had been meeting...

:29:34. > :29:41.You were after reveal that you saw the Chancellor of the day before,

:29:41. > :29:47.it is quite easy to work out where the story came from. Exactly. It is

:29:47. > :29:51.likely to be limited to executives but the trick that says, well, we

:29:51. > :29:55.met at a party or a country house, I think they will have to find a

:29:55. > :29:59.way of saying that that is dealt with as well. The political contest,

:29:59. > :30:04.who is in the driving seat? The truth is it is Ed Miliband. He will

:30:04. > :30:09.want to make questions about David Cameron. I expect we will see the

:30:09. > :30:14.question saying, what did you know and when about Andy Coulson? This

:30:15. > :30:19.business of two inquiries, two for the price of one, there is going to

:30:19. > :30:27.be an inquiry... I will have to hold that question because we can

:30:27. > :30:30.go straight over to Prime I had meetings with ministerial

:30:30. > :30:35.colleagues and others ant in addition to to my duties, I will

:30:35. > :30:40.have further such meetings today. Secretly deleting voice mails left

:30:40. > :30:43.for a missing teenager, buying the silence of public figures who would

:30:43. > :30:47.incriminate your business, and publishing confidential medical

:30:47. > :30:52.details of a disabled child who just happens to have a famous

:30:52. > :30:58.father. I ask the Prime Minister, I any of these the actions of a fit

:30:58. > :31:01.and proper person? My honourable friend makes an extremely powerful

:31:01. > :31:08.point in a powerful way. We have to be clear about what is happening

:31:08. > :31:13.here. There is a firestorm that is engulfing parts of the media, parts

:31:13. > :31:17.of the police, and our political system's ability to respond. What

:31:17. > :31:21.we must do, in the coming days and weeks, is think of the victims,

:31:22. > :31:25.like the Milly Dowler family, who are watching this today, and make

:31:25. > :31:35.doubly sure we get to the bottom of what happened and prosecute those

:31:35. > :31:36.

:31:36. > :31:40.Mr Speaker, yesterday, I met the family of Milly Dowler, who have

:31:40. > :31:45.shown incredible bravery and strength in speaking out about what

:31:45. > :31:49.happened to them, the hacking of their daughter's phone, and their

:31:49. > :31:52.terrible treatment at the hands of the News of the World. I am sure

:31:53. > :31:57.the whole House will want to pay tribute to their courage and

:31:57. > :32:01.bravery. Does the Prime Minister now agree with me that it is an

:32:01. > :32:06.insult to the family, that Rebekah Brooks, who was editor of the News

:32:06. > :32:09.of the World at the time, is still in her post at News International?

:32:09. > :32:15.I made very clear, she was right to resign, that resignation should

:32:15. > :32:18.have been accepted. There needs to be root and branch change at this

:32:18. > :32:24.entire organisation. I think it is now becoming increasingly clear

:32:24. > :32:28.that while everybody, to start with, wanted to separate what was

:32:28. > :32:31.happening at News International and what is happening with BSkyB, that

:32:32. > :32:35.is simply not possible. What has happened at this company is

:32:35. > :32:38.disgraceful, it has got to be addressed at every level and they

:32:38. > :32:44.should stop thinking about mergers when they have got to sort out the

:32:44. > :32:47.mess they have created. Mr Speaker, I it thanked the Prime Minister for

:32:47. > :32:51.that answer and he is right to take the position that Rebekah Brooks

:32:51. > :32:56.should go. When such a serious cloud hangs over at News

:32:56. > :33:01.Corporation, and when the more systematic pattern of deceit we

:33:01. > :33:05.have seen, does he agree with me, and he clearly does, that it will

:33:05. > :33:09.be quite wrong for them to expand their stake in the British media.

:33:09. > :33:12.Does he further agree that if the House of Commons speaks with one

:33:13. > :33:17.voice today, and I hope he will come to the debate, that Rupert

:33:17. > :33:22.Murdoch should drop his bid for BSkyB, should recognise the world

:33:22. > :33:25.has changed, and he should listen to this House of Commons. I agree

:33:25. > :33:29.with what the right honourable gentleman said and I think it is

:33:29. > :33:34.good that the House of Commons is going to speak with one voice. As

:33:34. > :33:38.he knows, the government has a job to do, to act at all times within

:33:38. > :33:43.the law. My right honourable friend, the Culture Secretary, has to obey

:33:43. > :33:47.every aspect of the law, laws that were on the whole put in place by

:33:47. > :33:51.the last government. Yes, as the honourable member says, we should

:33:51. > :33:55.look at amending the laws. We should make sure the fit and proper

:33:55. > :34:01.test is right, we should make sure the competition and Enterprise acts

:34:01. > :34:05.are right. I think it is perfectly acceptable, perfectly -- to obey

:34:06. > :34:10.the law as a government but to send a message that this business has

:34:10. > :34:14.got to stop the business of mergers and get on with cleaning its

:34:14. > :34:17.stables will stop I look forward to debating these issues with the

:34:17. > :34:23.Leader of the House, who will be speaking for the government later

:34:23. > :34:27.in the debate. I know he is making a statement shortly about the

:34:27. > :34:30.inquiry, but can he confirm something we agreed last night?

:34:30. > :34:35.That we need to make sure we get to the bottom not just of what

:34:35. > :34:39.happened at our newspapers, but also of the relationships between

:34:39. > :34:43.politicians and the press. Does he agree with me that if we expect

:34:43. > :34:48.editors and members of the press to give evidence under oath, so should

:34:48. > :34:53.current and past politicians? agree with that. On this issue of

:34:53. > :34:56.the debate, we are debating now, and that is right. We will have a

:34:56. > :35:00.statement in the House of Commons. I will stand here and answer

:35:00. > :35:04.questions from as many Members of Parliament as want to ask them. I

:35:04. > :35:07.think we should focus on the substance. As the Leader of the

:35:07. > :35:11.Opposition said, we had an excellent meeting last night, we

:35:11. > :35:15.discussed the nature of the inquiry that need to take place, we discuss

:35:15. > :35:18.the terms of reference. I send those to his office this morning,

:35:18. > :35:22.we have had some amendments, we are happy to accept those amendments.

:35:22. > :35:26.They will still be draft terms of reference and I want to hear what

:35:26. > :35:29.the Dowler family and others have to say, so we can move ahead in a

:35:29. > :35:34.way that takes the whole country with us, as we deal with this

:35:34. > :35:37.problem. I also think, if we are going to say to the police, you

:35:37. > :35:41.must be more transparent and cut out corruption, if we are going to

:35:41. > :35:45.say to the media, you must be more transparent and cut out malpractice,

:35:45. > :35:49.yes, the relationship between politicians and the media has

:35:49. > :35:53.changed and we must be more transparent as well, about meetings,

:35:53. > :35:57.particularly with executives, editors and proprietors. I will be

:35:57. > :36:00.setting out proposals for precisely that in a minute or two. I want to

:36:00. > :36:04.thank the Prime Minister for those answers and they answers the whole

:36:04. > :36:08.country will have wanted to hear. Can I also ask him to clear up one

:36:08. > :36:12.specific issue. It has now been confirmed that his chief of staff

:36:12. > :36:15.and his director of strategy were given specific information before

:36:15. > :36:20.the general election by the Guardian newspaper. The information

:36:20. > :36:25.showed that while he was editing the News of the World, Andy Coulson

:36:25. > :36:30.had hired Jonathan Rhys, a man jailed for seven years for a

:36:30. > :36:33.criminal conspiracy, and who made payments to police on behalf of the

:36:33. > :36:40.News of the World. Can the Prime Minister tell us what happened to

:36:40. > :36:43.that significant information that was given to his chief-of-staff.

:36:44. > :36:47.would like to answer this in full and I need to give a very full

:36:47. > :36:52.answer. All these questions relate to the fact I hired a tabloid

:36:52. > :36:54.editor. I did so on the basis of assurances he gave me, that he did

:36:55. > :36:59.not know about the phone hacking and he was not involved in

:36:59. > :37:03.criminality. He gave those same assurances to the police, a select

:37:03. > :37:06.committee of this house, and under oath to a court of law. If it turns

:37:06. > :37:10.out he lied, it won't just be that he shouldn't have been in

:37:10. > :37:14.government, it will be that he should be prosecuted. But I do

:37:14. > :37:21.believe that we must be to the principle that you are innocent

:37:21. > :37:24.until proven guilty. Let me deal directly about the information

:37:24. > :37:30.given to our office by figures from the Guardian newspaper in February

:37:30. > :37:36.last year. This information was not passed on to me. Let me be clear,

:37:36. > :37:39.this was not some secret stash of information. Almost all of it was

:37:39. > :37:44.published in The Guardian in February 2010, at the same time my

:37:44. > :37:47.office was approached. It contained no allegations directly linking

:37:47. > :37:52.Andy Coulson to illegal behaviour, it did not shed any further light

:37:52. > :37:58.on the issue of phone hacking. It was not drawn to my attention by my

:37:58. > :38:03.office. What is more... I met the editor of The Guardian the very

:38:03. > :38:07.next month and he didn't raise it with me once. I met him a year

:38:07. > :38:11.later, he didn't raise its them either. I would ask, if this

:38:11. > :38:17.information is soap significant, why have I not been asked one

:38:17. > :38:22.question about it at a press conference, or in this house? The

:38:22. > :38:27.reason why, Mr Speaker, it didn't add anything to the assurances that

:38:27. > :38:31.I was given. Let me say once more, if I was like to, if the police

:38:31. > :38:41.were lied to, if the select committee was lighted, it will be a

:38:41. > :38:47.

:38:47. > :38:54.matter of deep regret and a matter Order, order. Any body might think

:38:54. > :39:00.that there is orchestrated Nye's. Order! Order! The house will come

:39:00. > :39:04.to order. -- orchestrated noise. These exchanges will continue in an

:39:04. > :39:09.orderly way. Mr Ed Miliband. Speaker, the Prime Minister has

:39:09. > :39:13.made a very important admission. He has admitted that his chief of

:39:13. > :39:19.staff was given information before the general election, that Andy

:39:19. > :39:25.Coulson had hired a man jailed for seven years for a criminal

:39:25. > :39:31.conspiracy, who made payments to the police on behalf of the News of

:39:31. > :39:34.the World. This evidence casts serious doubt on Mr Coulson's

:39:34. > :39:40.assurances that the phone hacking over which he resigned was an

:39:40. > :39:44.isolated example of illegal activity. The Prime Minister says

:39:44. > :39:48.his chief of staff did not pass on this very serious information. Can

:39:48. > :39:55.he now tell us what information he proposes to take against his cheek

:39:55. > :39:59.of staff? -- is chief of staff. have given the fullest possible

:39:59. > :40:09.answer I could to the honourable gentleman. He can ask questions

:40:09. > :40:12.

:40:12. > :40:17.about Andy Coulson. I can ask He can ask questions about my

:40:17. > :40:22.private office. I can ask questions about Damien McBride. Do you know

:40:22. > :40:27.what, Mr Speaker? I think the public, and the victims of this

:40:27. > :40:37.appalling scandal, want us to rise above this and deal with the

:40:37. > :40:47.problems that this country faces? Mr Speaker, he just doesn't get it.

:40:47. > :40:51.

:40:51. > :40:57.I say this to the Prime Minister. He was warned by the Deputy Prime

:40:57. > :41:02.Minister about hiring Andy Coulson. He was warned by Lord Ashdown about

:41:02. > :41:08.hiring Andy Coulson. He has now admitted in the House of Commons

:41:08. > :41:11.today that his chief of staff was given complete evidence which

:41:11. > :41:15.contradicted Andy Coulson's previous account. The Prime

:41:15. > :41:19.Minister must now publish the fullest account of all the

:41:19. > :41:24.information that was provided, and what he did, and why those warnings

:41:24. > :41:28.went unheeded. What he should do most of all, he should apologise

:41:28. > :41:35.for the catastrophic error of judgment he made in hiring Andy

:41:35. > :41:40.Coulson. I am afraid, Mr Speaker, the person who is not getting it is

:41:40. > :41:44.now the Leader of the Opposition. What the public want us to do is

:41:44. > :41:48.address this firestorm. They want us to sort out bad practices at the

:41:48. > :41:53.media, they want us to fix the corruption in the police, they want

:41:53. > :41:57.a proper public inquiry, and they are entitled to ask, when these

:41:57. > :42:01.problems went on for so long, for so many years, what was it that

:42:01. > :42:06.happened in the last decade? When was the police investigation that

:42:06. > :42:10.didn't work? Where was the public inquiry over the last 10 years? We

:42:10. > :42:15.have now got a full un police investigation that will see proper

:42:15. > :42:20.prosecutions and I hope, proper convictions. We will have a proper

:42:20. > :42:27.inquiry, run by the judge, to get to the bottom of this issue. That

:42:27. > :42:37.is the leadership I am determined to provide. Order! Order! Order! Or

:42:37. > :42:41.

:42:41. > :42:46.I say to the Children's Minister, tried to calm down, and behave like

:42:46. > :42:51.an adult. If you can't, if it is beyond you, leave the chamber, it

:42:51. > :42:59.get out, we will marriage without due. Mr David Ward -- we will

:42:59. > :43:03.manage without you. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Order, order. This is

:43:03. > :43:10.intolerable behaviour as far as the public... It is not fund it. Only

:43:10. > :43:17.in your mind, Mr Lawton, is it funny. It is disgraceful. Mr David

:43:17. > :43:20.Ward. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. In a case of the pot

:43:20. > :43:24.calling the kettle black, if we could have a pantomime interval for

:43:24. > :43:31.a moment. Is the Prime Minister aware that there are young people

:43:31. > :43:36.in Bradford being quoted, without convictions or claims, �53,000 to

:43:36. > :43:45.insure their first car. These ridiculous premiums are being

:43:45. > :43:52.driven by insurance companies selling fresh details of personal

:43:52. > :43:56.injuries. He my honourable friend is making a very good point about

:43:56. > :43:59.the problem of referral fees, that are driving up the cost of

:43:59. > :44:03.insurance for many people. right honourable gentleman, the

:44:03. > :44:06.Member for Blackburn, has made very powerful points about this. There

:44:06. > :44:11.was a report to the government calling for refer all fees to be

:44:11. > :44:18.banned. I am very sympathetic to this, the Justice Secretary is as

:44:18. > :44:22.well, and we hope to make progress. Will the Prime Minister, if asked,

:44:22. > :44:28.give evidence to the judge lead public inquiry that he is setting

:44:28. > :44:30.up today? Of course. The point about the inquiry, which I will be

:44:31. > :44:34.announcing in a moment or two, it will be judged lead, it will take

:44:34. > :44:40.its powers from the inquiries Act, it will be able to call people

:44:40. > :44:45.under oath. His there is the issue of police corruption, the issue of

:44:45. > :44:55.what happened at the media, and questions for politicians, past,

:44:55. > :44:55.

:44:55. > :44:59.My constituents are increasingly concerned about the deepening

:44:59. > :45:05.problems in the Eurozone. Will the Prime Minister reassure me that he

:45:05. > :45:09.is doing everything he can to keep us out of it and to urge the

:45:09. > :45:15.Eurozone to Act? I think my Honourable Friend his right. We

:45:15. > :45:18.have to stay out of the Eurozone. A think being a member of the Euro

:45:18. > :45:23.would take away the flexibility we currently have, but we have to

:45:23. > :45:27.remember that 40% of our exports go to Eurozone countries, so we have

:45:27. > :45:32.to make constructive suggestions about stress tests for their banks,

:45:32. > :45:36.backed up with the recapitalisation involving the private sector, and

:45:36. > :45:39.earning fiscal credibility through concrete action to reduce excessive

:45:39. > :45:43.deficits. Basically, Eurozone countries have to recognise that

:45:43. > :45:50.they have got to do more together and faster. They have to get ahead

:45:50. > :45:55.of the market, rather than responding to the next crisis.

:45:55. > :46:00.Ashdown said he warned Number Ten last year of the terrible damage

:46:00. > :46:06.that it would suffer if Andy Coulson was appointed. Can the

:46:06. > :46:11.Prime Minister see how precisely he reacted to this powerful warning?

:46:11. > :46:14.The point I made before, of course, the decision to employ a tabloid

:46:14. > :46:19.editor meant that there were a number of people who said it was

:46:19. > :46:22.not a good idea, particularly when that tabloid editor had been at the

:46:22. > :46:26.News of the World when bad things had happened. The decision I made

:46:26. > :46:30.was to accept the assurances he gave me. As I have said, those

:46:30. > :46:34.assurances were given to the police, to a Select Committee and the court

:46:34. > :46:39.of law. If I or others were like two, that will be a matter of deep

:46:39. > :46:45.regret. We must make sure that we judge people at innocent -- as

:46:45. > :46:49.innocent until proven guilty. week I received another e-mail from

:46:49. > :46:53.a constituent regarding Meckel and cable theft, although this time it

:46:53. > :46:57.told me of an elderly lady who was at home and unable to raise the

:46:57. > :47:01.alarm because she had had a fall and the cables from the village had

:47:01. > :47:06.been stolen for the second time in as many weeks. This is a growing

:47:06. > :47:11.problem. The legislation relating to this dates back to 1964, please

:47:11. > :47:13.can we have a review to ensure that those scrap-metal dealers to accept

:47:13. > :47:23.the Still to come: Will are prevented from doing so and

:47:23. > :47:25.

:47:25. > :47:28.prosecuted? I have every sympathy. I am being -- I'm trying to make

:47:28. > :47:32.sure that these crimes are taken very seriously by the police

:47:32. > :47:36.because they put massive costs on to voluntary services and charities

:47:36. > :47:44.and businesses. We must make sure it is not seen as a second order

:47:44. > :47:48.crime. It is a worrying crime. debate this afternoon will be vital

:47:48. > :47:52.because it shows that the House will be united in its revulsion at

:47:52. > :47:55.what has been done to Milly Dowler's family. Can I ask the

:47:55. > :47:59.Prime Minister to make urgent inquiries as to whether the

:47:59. > :48:03.families of the victims of 9/11 were similarly targeted by

:48:03. > :48:08.criminals and News International, and if they were, well you raised

:48:08. > :48:13.it with his counterparts in the United States? -- will he raised it.

:48:14. > :48:19.In the statement I will make, I will give figures for the amount of

:48:19. > :48:24.phones that the Metropolitan Police think were hacked. They pledge they

:48:25. > :48:28.will contact every single one. Paul Stephenson and thyme last night,

:48:29. > :48:33.and I sought further reassurances of -- about the scale of the

:48:33. > :48:36.operation. In what was a mixed appearance by police officers at

:48:36. > :48:40.the Home Affairs Select Committee last night, I thought that Sue

:48:40. > :48:44.Akers, leading the investigation, acquitted herself extremely well.

:48:44. > :48:49.We should have confidence that the Metropolitan Police will get to the

:48:49. > :48:53.bottom of this. With ambitions of being the greenest County, Suffolk

:48:53. > :48:58.is committed to a low carbon world with offshore wind farms, nuclear

:48:58. > :49:02.power and the recycling rate of over 60%. He is always welcome to

:49:02. > :49:07.visit but will he give his backing to our ambitions to enhance skills

:49:07. > :49:10.training so we can build a new job opportunities to be created locally.

:49:10. > :49:15.I think the honourable lady makes a good point and I congratulate her

:49:15. > :49:18.on branding Suffolk as the green coast. I think there is a big

:49:18. > :49:24.opportunity in light of what the Energy and Climate Change Secretary

:49:24. > :49:27.has sat, in terms of green jobs, renewable energy and nuclear. One

:49:27. > :49:30.of the things to encourage the inward investment we want is to

:49:30. > :49:33.demonstrate that we are going to build up our skills base, and that

:49:33. > :49:39.is where local Enterprise partnerships can create such a

:49:39. > :49:42.valuable role of. Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether he

:49:42. > :49:47.had any conversations about phone hacking with Andy Coulson at the

:49:47. > :49:52.time of his resignation, and will he place in the elaborate a lot of

:49:52. > :49:58.any meetings and phone calls between him and Andy Coulson

:49:58. > :50:05.discussing his resignation? As I said, perhaps before she wrote or

:50:05. > :50:10.had written her questioned, of course I sought assurances from

:50:10. > :50:17.Andy Coulson and I received those assurances. Those assurances were

:50:17. > :50:19.not just given at the time to me, but also given subsequently to the

:50:19. > :50:23.Select Committee and to a criminal case under oath. These were

:50:24. > :50:27.repeatedly given. Let me say, for the avoidance of any doubt, if

:50:28. > :50:31.these assurances turn out not to be true, then it is not just that he

:50:31. > :50:39.should not have worked in government, it is that he should,

:50:39. > :50:43.like others, face the full force of law. Can I raise a different case

:50:43. > :50:47.of hacking. The computer hacker Gary McKinnon. Whilst I recognise

:50:47. > :50:52.the Home Secretary has legal process to follow, does he share

:50:52. > :50:58.the concern for my constituent's nine-year nightmare as he feels his

:50:58. > :51:02.life is hanging on a thread, waiting to be cut by extradition?

:51:02. > :51:05.recognise the seriousness of this case. The Deputy Prime Minister and

:51:06. > :51:10.I raised it with permanent -- President Obama when he visited. It

:51:10. > :51:14.is not about the alleged offence, which everyone knows is very

:51:14. > :51:18.serious, and you can understand why the Americans feel so strongly

:51:18. > :51:22.about it, REALLY is in front of the Home Secretary, who has to consider

:51:22. > :51:26.reports about Gary McKinnon's Health and well-being. It is right

:51:26. > :51:36.that she does that in a proper, effectively and quartzite judicial

:51:36. > :51:41.

:51:41. > :51:45.way. -- and the case really is. Can I ask the Prime Minister to

:51:45. > :51:50.justify the following expenditure, at the beginning of last month a

:51:50. > :51:57.servicemen from Northern Ireland a asked for a non urgent pair of

:51:57. > :52:02.boots. �45. They were dispatched from defence based best by private

:52:02. > :52:10.courier to Northern Ireland at a cost of �714. Is it not time that

:52:10. > :52:14.he got a grip of this? I know that former health ministers wanted to

:52:14. > :52:17.hear the rattle of every bedpan and maybe I should see the order of

:52:17. > :52:20.every pair of boots, but to recognise the point. One of the

:52:21. > :52:24.things we're trying to do in the Ministry of Defence is recognised

:52:24. > :52:28.that there is a huge amount of cost in terms of back-office costs and

:52:28. > :52:32.logistics. We want to make that more efficient so that we can spend

:52:32. > :52:40.money on the front line. The example he gives is a good one and

:52:40. > :52:42.I shall check it out. Can the Prime Minister assure the

:52:42. > :52:47.House that all the legal press activity under the last government

:52:47. > :52:50.will be investigated now, and that this will include the criminal

:52:50. > :52:57.conspiracy between the highest levels in that last government,

:52:57. > :53:03.with parts of the Murdoch empire, including blagging of bank accounts

:53:03. > :53:10.of Lord Ashcroft in a bid to undermine him and his positions, as

:53:10. > :53:12.laid out in dirty politics, dirty times. The point about the inquiry

:53:12. > :53:17.is that it will look at the relationship between politicians

:53:17. > :53:21.and media groups over the whole issue of that relationship as it

:53:21. > :53:26.relates to media policy. I think this is extremely important. The

:53:26. > :53:29.inquiry will have the ability to call serving politicians, previous

:53:29. > :53:36.Prime Ministers, to get to the bottom of what happened and how on

:53:36. > :53:42.healthy this relationship was. That is what needs to happen. One Monday,

:53:42. > :53:47.the MoD Permanent Secretary told the Public Accounts Committee that

:53:47. > :53:53.the Prime Minister himself locked the National Audit Office from

:53:53. > :53:57.accessing relevant Security Council documents. The audit is considered

:53:57. > :54:01.essential to assess whether decisions on the aircraft carrier

:54:01. > :54:07.in the Defence Review represent value for money. That refusal is

:54:07. > :54:11.unprecedented. In the interests of full transparency and

:54:11. > :54:18.accountability, will be Prime Minister now agree to immediately

:54:18. > :54:23.release the information? The short answer is we were following

:54:23. > :54:27.precedent, but a long answer is, if she wants me to come to a committee

:54:27. > :54:33.and explain what an appalling set of decisions by last government

:54:33. > :54:38.made on aircraft carriers, the delay alone by the government she

:54:38. > :54:42.worked for added �1.6 billion to the cost of aircraft carriers! If

:54:42. > :54:46.she wants me to turn up and not just tell you what we discussed in

:54:46. > :54:55.Cabinet, but lay out the full details of the waste that her

:54:55. > :54:58.government was responsible for, name the day. Following a question

:54:58. > :55:02.from me three-and a-half years ago, his predecessor, the right

:55:02. > :55:07.honourable member for Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath set up pilot

:55:07. > :55:09.schemes to provide sign language support for deaf parents and their

:55:09. > :55:14.children in Devon and Merseyside. These have now been completed and

:55:14. > :55:18.have been a success. Will he meet a delegation of deaf parents and

:55:18. > :55:24.children to discuss how this sign language support can be extended to

:55:24. > :55:27.all children and parents across the United Kingdom? We do a lot to

:55:27. > :55:30.support different languages throughout the United Kingdom and

:55:30. > :55:34.signing is an incredibly valuable language for many people in our

:55:34. > :55:38.country. These pilot schemes have been successful and I looked at

:55:38. > :55:47.what the last Prime Minister said when asked this question. I will

:55:47. > :55:51.certainly arrange a meeting for him. My question to the Prime Minister

:55:51. > :55:56.concerns the Translink real programme and the contract. He will

:55:56. > :56:00.be aware that with 20,000 manufacturing jobs at risk, it is

:56:00. > :56:05.right that it should be of concern. Can the Prime Minister confirm that

:56:05. > :56:15.no contract has been signed and that no contract can be signed

:56:15. > :56:15.

:56:15. > :56:25.until the funding package itself is determined. --? Given that the

:56:25. > :56:28.

:56:28. > :56:33.funding package... 20,000 jobs are at stake. Given that 20,000 jobs

:56:33. > :56:41.are at risk, will be Prime Minister look at holding the competition for

:56:41. > :56:45.that funding package... I think we have got it. What I would same to

:56:45. > :56:49.the honourable gentleman, I know he cares deeply about this issue, and

:56:49. > :56:54.bombard BAA is a great country if - - Bombardier is a great company. In

:56:54. > :56:59.this case, the procurement process was designed and initiated by the

:56:59. > :57:02.previous government. We were bound by the criteria they set, and

:57:02. > :57:06.therefore we have to continue with the decision made according to that

:57:06. > :57:12.criteria. We are looking at all EU procurement rules to see whether we

:57:12. > :57:16.can make better for the future issues like this. Will the Prime

:57:16. > :57:23.Minister join me in calling for the electrification of the crew Mach 2

:57:23. > :57:30.Chester realign? -- Crewe took Chester rail line, which will link

:57:30. > :57:35.us to High Speed Two? I am well aware of this campaign. I remember

:57:35. > :57:41.spending a lot of time at Crewe station during the last Parliament,

:57:41. > :57:45.normally accompanied by people dressed in top hat and tails. It is

:57:45. > :57:50.not in the current programme but we will look sympathetically. We know

:57:50. > :57:55.we want to see more electrification of railway lines in our country.

:57:55. > :58:03.His government said that university tuition fees would average 7005

:58:03. > :58:09.under pounds. In actual fact, the average �8,400. -- �7,500. How can

:58:09. > :58:14.you open the taxpayer to such a liability during this Parliament?

:58:14. > :58:18.There are only nine universities charging �9,000 for every student.

:58:18. > :58:24.There are 58 universities that will not charge �9,000 for any of their

:58:24. > :58:29.courses. If you look at further education courses, 108 out of 124

:58:29. > :58:33.will charge less than �6,000 for all their courses. But the point I

:58:33. > :58:39.make is that university degrees have not suddenly started costing

:58:39. > :58:42.7000, 8000 or �9,000. They have always cost that. The question is,

:58:42. > :58:48.do you last successful graduates to pay or do you ask the taxpayer to

:58:48. > :58:54.pay? We have made our choice and I think that the party opposite, that

:58:54. > :59:00.introduced tuition fees, has got to come up with an answer. Amid the

:59:00. > :59:04.turmoil in other European economies, is it not essential that this

:59:04. > :59:13.country should continue to take steps to reduce its debt and Steer

:59:13. > :59:16.clear of paying for any future EU bail-outs? It is not only the

:59:16. > :59:20.restrictions of the Euro, it is also the building up of

:59:20. > :59:24.unsustainable levels of debt. Although we are out of the Euro, it

:59:24. > :59:28.does not mean that we do not have to deal with debt. We do. But we

:59:28. > :59:31.have the opportunity of being a safe haven for people. You can see

:59:31. > :59:35.our market interest rates coming down because of the action this

:59:35. > :59:39.government has taken. We have to keep that up but recognise that the

:59:39. > :59:43.Euro is sorting out its own problems and that is in our edition

:59:43. > :59:49.-- that is in our best interests. We have to be helpful and

:59:49. > :59:52.constructive. Last week, I was approached regarding a fee paying

:59:52. > :59:56.debt management company that wanted to advise their clients to take out

:59:56. > :00:01.a remortgage to pay debts. The company paid �11,000 to creditors

:00:01. > :00:06.and went out of business, taking the rest of his money. I have many

:00:06. > :00:10.other examples like this. Self- regulation is not working with his

:00:10. > :00:14.industry. Will the Prime Minister look at regulating this sector and

:00:14. > :00:19.provide the OFT with the resources to take action swiftly so that

:00:19. > :00:22.vulnerable people are not continuing to be ripped off? I know

:00:22. > :00:26.that the honourable lady has not just constituency experience of

:00:26. > :00:31.this but managed a Citizens Advice Bureau centre herself, so has

:00:31. > :00:33.experience of seeing people coming in with debt problems. I would say

:00:33. > :00:37.that the Citizens' Advice Bureau was probably the finest

:00:37. > :00:40.organisation in our country for helping people with debt. I will

:00:40. > :00:47.certainly look at the suggestion she makes about whether the sector

:00:47. > :00:55.can be better regulated. And also, looking at the issue of credit

:00:55. > :00:59.unions and how we can lead to their expansion. The House will share the

:00:59. > :01:02.out rage that the right honourable member for Kirkcaldy and

:01:03. > :01:07.Cowdenbeath Express this week about the publication of private medical

:01:07. > :01:15.information relating to his son. He said when he was Prime Minister, he

:01:15. > :01:18.tried to set up a investigation into phone hacking. Can my -- can

:01:18. > :01:23.be Prime Minister save what detailed preparatory work he

:01:23. > :01:29.received? I have sympathy with the former Prime Minister about the

:01:29. > :01:35.blagging of his details. In public life, we are all subject to extra

:01:35. > :01:41.scrutiny. It is not fair one laws are broken. The fact is, we have

:01:41. > :01:46.suffered and we have been too silent. That is the problem. You

:01:46. > :01:54.hold back from dealing with these situations because you want good

:01:54. > :02:04.relations with the media. I did not inherent any work about the public

:02:04. > :02:07.inquiry. But the one we have set up will get the job done. The 45th

:02:07. > :02:14.International Children's Games will come to lecture at the start of

:02:14. > :02:19.August. When hundred 1012 to 15- year-old will participate in nine

:02:19. > :02:28.sports across the county. Will the Prime Minister congratulate two

:02:28. > :02:38.Labour authorities in Olsson the games and will he set a -- send a

:02:38. > :02:41.

:02:41. > :02:45.representative of the Government to It sounds like an excellent

:02:45. > :02:50.initiative and I wish everyone the best of luck. Would the Prime

:02:50. > :02:55.Minister confirm that all witnesses will be required to give evidence

:02:55. > :02:59.under oath? As I will explain in a minute, it is going to be one

:02:59. > :03:03.inquiry with two parts, but led by a judge, and the judge will

:03:03. > :03:13.eventually agree the terms of reference, set out the terms it is

:03:13. > :03:18.

:03:18. > :03:22.going to work, and be responsible In recent days, the whole country

:03:22. > :03:26.has been shocked by the revelations of the phone hacking scandal. What

:03:26. > :03:30.this country and this house has to confront is an episode that is

:03:30. > :03:34.frankly disgraceful. Accusations of widespread law-breaking by parts of

:03:34. > :03:38.our press, alleged corruption by police officers and as we have just

:03:38. > :03:43.discussed, a failure of our political system over many years,

:03:43. > :03:48.to tackle a problem that has been getting worse. We must, I think, at

:03:48. > :03:53.all times, keep front and centre, the real victims of this. Relatives

:03:53. > :03:56.of those who died at the hands of terrorism, war heroes, murder

:03:56. > :04:01.victims, people who have already suffered in ways that we can barely

:04:01. > :04:06.imagine. They have been made to suffer all over again. I believe we

:04:06. > :04:10.all want the same thing. We want press, police and politicians that

:04:10. > :04:14.serve the public. Last night, the Deputy Prime Minister and I met

:04:14. > :04:17.with the Leader of the Opposition. I also met with the chairs of

:04:17. > :04:22.Culture, Media and Sport, home affairs and justice and select

:04:22. > :04:26.committees to discuss the best way forward. I want to set out how we

:04:26. > :04:29.intend to proceed. First on the public inquiry, second on the

:04:29. > :04:33.issues surrounding News International's proposed takeover

:04:33. > :04:37.of BSkyB, and third on ethics in the police service and its

:04:37. > :04:41.relationship with the press. Before I do that, let me update the house

:04:41. > :04:44.on the current criminal investigation into phone hacking. I

:04:44. > :04:48.met with Sir Paul Stevenson last night. Be assured me the

:04:48. > :04:52.investigation is fully resourced, it is one of the largest currently

:04:52. > :04:55.under way in this country and it is being carried out by a completely

:04:55. > :05:00.different team than the one that carried out the original

:05:00. > :05:04.investigation. It is being led by Sue Akers, who I believe impress

:05:04. > :05:11.the select committee yesterday. Her team is looking through 11,000

:05:11. > :05:16.pages containing 3870 names, including around 4,000 mobile and

:05:16. > :05:20.5,000 landline phone numbers. They have contracted 170 people so far

:05:20. > :05:23.and they will contact every person named in those documents. The

:05:23. > :05:27.commissioner's office informed me that the team have made eight

:05:27. > :05:32.arrests and undertaken numerous interviews. Let me turn to the

:05:32. > :05:36.action that the government is taking. I set out our intention to

:05:36. > :05:39.establish an independent public inquiry into phone hacking and

:05:39. > :05:42.other illegal practices in the British press. We have looked

:05:42. > :05:47.carefully at what the nature of this inquiry should be. We want it

:05:47. > :05:51.to be one that is as robust as possible, that can get to the truth

:05:51. > :05:55.fastest, and get to work the quickest. And one that vitally

:05:55. > :05:59.commands the full confidence of the public. There are two pieces of

:05:59. > :06:03.work that have to be done. First, we need a full investigation into

:06:03. > :06:06.wrong doing in the press and police, including the failure of the first

:06:06. > :06:10.police investigation. Second, we need a review of regulation of the

:06:10. > :06:14.press. We would like to get on with both of these elements as quickly

:06:14. > :06:18.as possible, while being mindful of the ongoing criminal investigations.

:06:18. > :06:23.After listening carefully, we have decided the best way to proceed is

:06:23. > :06:27.with one inquiry, but in two parts. This inquiry will be led by one of

:06:27. > :06:31.the most senior judges in our country, Lord Justice leavers and.

:06:31. > :06:35.He will report to both the Home Secretary and the Secretary for

:06:35. > :06:40.Culture, Media and Sport. The inquiry will be established under

:06:40. > :06:43.the 2005 inquiries Act, which means it will have the power to summon

:06:43. > :06:51.witnesses including newspaper reporters, management, proprietors,

:06:51. > :06:57.policemen and politicians of all parties, to give evidence under

:06:57. > :07:02.oath. Starting as soon as possible, Lord Justice leaders and, assisted

:07:02. > :07:05.by a panel with relevant expertise in media, broadcasting, regulation

:07:05. > :07:09.and government, will inquire into the culture, practices and ethics

:07:09. > :07:14.of the press, their relationship with the police, the failure of the

:07:14. > :07:18.current system of regulation, the contacts made and discussions had

:07:18. > :07:22.between national newspapers and politicians. Why previous warnings

:07:22. > :07:26.about press misconduct were not heeded. And the issue of cross-

:07:26. > :07:29.media ownership. He will make recommendations for a new, more

:07:30. > :07:33.effective way of regulating the press, one that supports their

:07:33. > :07:37.freedom, plurality and independence from government, but which also

:07:37. > :07:41.demands the highest ethical and professional standards. He will

:07:41. > :07:45.also make recommendations about the future conduct of relations between

:07:45. > :07:49.politicians and the press. This part of the inquiry, we hope will

:07:49. > :07:54.report within 12 months. The second part of the inquiry will examine

:07:54. > :07:57.the extent of unlawful or improper conduct at the News of the World or

:07:57. > :08:01.other newspapers. And the way in which management failures may have

:08:01. > :08:04.allowed this to happen. This part of the inquiry will look into the

:08:04. > :08:07.original police investigation and the issue of corrupt payments to

:08:07. > :08:12.police officers. And it will consider the implications for the

:08:12. > :08:16.relationships between newspapers and the police. Lord Justice has

:08:16. > :08:19.agreed to these draft terms of reference. I am placing them in the

:08:19. > :08:23.library today and we will send them to the devolved administrations. No

:08:23. > :08:27.one should be in any doubt of our intentions to get to the bottom of

:08:27. > :08:32.the truth and learn the lessons of the future. Next, the issue of News

:08:32. > :08:35.International's bid to take over BSkyB. By the day, we are hearing

:08:35. > :08:39.shocking allegations. Allegations that royal protection officers were

:08:39. > :08:43.in the pay of the News of the World and they handed over the contact

:08:43. > :08:46.details of the Royal Family for profit. Allegations that the former

:08:46. > :08:56.prime minister, Gordon Brown, had his personal details black by

:08:56. > :08:57.

:08:57. > :09:02.another News International title. - Serious questions must be asked

:09:02. > :09:06.about News Corporation's proposed takeover of BSkyB. News Corporation

:09:06. > :09:10.has withdrawn his proposed undertakings in lieu of reference

:09:10. > :09:13.to the Competition Commission. That is why on Monday, my right

:09:13. > :09:17.honourable friend, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport,

:09:17. > :09:19.referred their bit to the Competition Commission. The

:09:19. > :09:23.relevant independent authorities will have the time to take an

:09:23. > :09:27.exhaustive look at all the relevant issues and come to an consider

:09:27. > :09:30.decision on whether this takeover should proceed. -- considered

:09:30. > :09:35.decision. It will be up to the Secretary of State to make the

:09:35. > :09:39.final decision, in his quasi- judicial capacity. We must follow

:09:39. > :09:43.the law in respect of News International's proposed

:09:44. > :09:48.acquisition of BSkyB. Let me repeat what I said on Monday. In my view,

:09:48. > :09:51.this business should not be focused on mergers and takeovers but on

:09:52. > :09:57.tearing up the mess and getting their house in order. That is what

:09:57. > :10:00.the house will be voting on tonight -- Clearing up. The people involved,

:10:00. > :10:03.whether they were directly responsible for wrong doing,

:10:03. > :10:07.whether they sanctioned it all covered it up, however high or low

:10:07. > :10:13.they go, they must not only be brought to justice but also have no

:10:13. > :10:16.future role in running a media company in our country. Now let me

:10:16. > :10:20.turn to the issue of ethics in the police and their relationship with

:10:20. > :10:23.the press. Of course, it is important that there is a good

:10:23. > :10:26.relationship between the media and the police. Police often used

:10:26. > :10:30.newspapers and other media to hunt down wanted criminals and appeal

:10:30. > :10:33.for information. However, allegations have been made that

:10:33. > :10:37.some corrupt police officers may have taken payments from newspapers.

:10:37. > :10:41.There are wider concerns that the relationship between the police and

:10:41. > :10:47.the press can also be too close. When I spoke to Sir Paul Stephenson

:10:47. > :10:49.yesterday, he made clear that he is as determined as I am to -- that

:10:49. > :10:54.all aspects of the police Russia should with the media should be

:10:54. > :10:59.beyond reproach. Want -- police relationship. On the issue of

:10:59. > :11:03.improper payments, the Met Police immediately referred the case to

:11:03. > :11:07.the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Since then, the IPCC's

:11:07. > :11:11.most senior commissioner has been supervising the Met's work to

:11:11. > :11:15.identify officers we may have taken payments. As soon as any officers

:11:15. > :11:18.are identified, the commission has made clear that it will move to

:11:18. > :11:28.wear full independent investigation, drawing on all the available

:11:28. > :11:33.expertise necessary, so the public is reassured. -- moved to a full.

:11:33. > :11:36.It has the resources and full powers to investigate any

:11:36. > :11:40.wrongdoing they might uncover. The Home Secretary has commissioned a

:11:40. > :11:43.report from the IPCC on their experience of investigating

:11:43. > :11:46.corruption in the police service, and any lessons that can be learned.

:11:47. > :11:50.Their initial findings will be delivered by the end of the summer.

:11:50. > :11:57.I can also tell the House that in addition to the work of the

:11:57. > :12:00.judicial requiring, the -- inquiry, Sir Paul Stephenson is looking to

:12:00. > :12:03.invite a senior figure to advise him on the ethics that should

:12:04. > :12:07.underpin the relationship for his own force, the Metropolitan Police.

:12:07. > :12:13.This figure will advise him on how to ensure maximum transparency in

:12:13. > :12:17.public confidence on how the arrangement works. If we are

:12:17. > :12:21.calling for greater transparency from the police, it is only right

:12:21. > :12:26.we provide it in government and too. As I have said, one of the reasons

:12:26. > :12:29.we got into this situation, is that over the decades, politicians and

:12:29. > :12:33.the press have spent time courting support, not confronting the

:12:33. > :12:36.problems. I will be consulting the Cabinet Secretary on an amendment

:12:36. > :12:41.to the ministerial code, to require ministers to record all meetings

:12:41. > :12:45.with newspapers and proprietors, senior editors and executives,

:12:45. > :12:49.regardless of the nature of the meeting. Permanent secretaries and

:12:49. > :12:52.special advisers will also be required to record such meetings.

:12:52. > :12:55.This information should be published quarterly. It is a first

:12:55. > :12:58.for our country and alongside the other steps we are taking, will

:12:58. > :13:02.help make the UK Government one of the most transparent in the world.

:13:03. > :13:08.I will also discuss this with the opposition and perhaps we can adopt

:13:08. > :13:12.this on a cross-party basis. After this statement, I will be meeting

:13:12. > :13:18.the family of Milly Dowler. None of us can imagine what they have gone

:13:18. > :13:22.through, but I do know this. They, like everyone else in this country,

:13:22. > :13:26.want their politicians, all of us, to bring this ugly chapter to a

:13:26. > :13:35.close and ensured that nothing like it can never happen again. It is in

:13:35. > :13:38.that spirit that I commend this Can I start by thanking the Prime

:13:39. > :13:42.Minister for his statement, and the meeting last night? The revelations

:13:42. > :13:46.of the past week have shocked the whole country. The public now

:13:46. > :13:50.rightly expects those of us in this house that represent them, to

:13:50. > :13:54.provide not just an echo for that shock but the leadership necessary

:13:54. > :13:58.to start putting things right. That is why it is in the interest of the

:13:58. > :14:01.whole house that we move forward swiftly, comprehensively and

:14:01. > :14:06.wherever possible, on an agreed basis. Let me ask him about the

:14:06. > :14:10.timing, the nature and scope of the inquiry. Can I welcome the

:14:10. > :14:14.establishment of the inquiry today, and can the Prime Minister

:14:14. > :14:18.confirmed it will be staffed, and up and running, before the recess?

:14:18. > :14:22.Can he also confirm that from the moment the judge is appointed today,

:14:22. > :14:27.it will be an offence to destroy documents relating to this inquiry,

:14:27. > :14:32.and can he tell us was that he will be taken to preserve documents at

:14:32. > :14:38.Downing Street which might be relevant to the judge's inquiry. We

:14:38. > :14:44.welcome a number of aspects of the announcement today that we have

:14:44. > :14:48.been clearly dealing -- calling for. It must be judged lead if it is to

:14:48. > :14:53.get to the bottom of what happened, and when. Can he confirm it has

:14:53. > :14:58.been set up under the inquiries Act 2005, and will have the power to

:14:58. > :15:02.compel witnesses? Can he explain how he envisages the judge and the

:15:02. > :15:05.panel operating together? Turning to the scope of the inquiry, the

:15:05. > :15:09.Prime Minister set out a number of areas he envisaged being covered in

:15:09. > :15:15.his press conference last Friday, and he has gone further today. A

:15:15. > :15:22.think it is right the government had decided to follow our advice,

:15:22. > :15:32.and the Curia views... -- the Clear the use of the hacked off campaign

:15:32. > :15:32.

:15:32. > :15:36.and the Dowler inquiry in acting And we come out of that exchange at

:15:36. > :15:41.the House of Commons. You can continue to follow it on the BBC

:15:41. > :15:47.Parliament shall. On a day where British politics is now totally

:15:47. > :15:50.dominated by what happened at the News of the World and the fall-out

:15:50. > :15:54.from that. Prime Minister's Questions, the front bench exchange

:15:54. > :15:57.was all about that subject. And the Prime Minister has just made a

:15:57. > :16:01.statement which means that for the foreseeable future, although it may

:16:01. > :16:07.not be in the headlines to the extent it is now, this issue will

:16:07. > :16:09.continue to rumble on for two, three, possibly four years as the

:16:09. > :16:15.inquiries that the Prime Minister has announced into the behaviour of

:16:15. > :16:20.the press over hacking and the police, and then they brought some

:16:20. > :16:24.inquiry into the nature of press regulation and press standards in

:16:25. > :16:28.this country takes place. -- a broad. One that will take place

:16:28. > :16:34.under a judge, under oath and in public with proprietors having to

:16:34. > :16:39.turn up as well as everybody else. Legal obligations to do so. We have

:16:39. > :16:46.15 minutes on this programme to go. These are big events. Your reaction

:16:46. > :16:49.first and then that of our panel. Strong reactions from you. John

:16:49. > :16:53.from Garden City: "Ed Miliband started with a strong hand but now

:16:53. > :16:57.he seems to be concentrating solely on Andy Coulson. He is in danger of

:16:57. > :17:02.posturing. The key issue is standards. It looks like David

:17:02. > :17:06.Cameron made just begin to start leading on this issue." Annie in

:17:06. > :17:13.Manchester: "David Cameron has demonstrated he will throw anyone

:17:13. > :17:16.to the wolves to say his -- save his own face.'s another

:17:16. > :17:21.viewer,"Presumably Andy Coulson was vetted before taking his position.

:17:21. > :17:25.Interesting to know whether the betting was completely done. If it

:17:25. > :17:29.was, did the Prime Minister ignored the advice? If not completely done,

:17:29. > :17:36.it needs to be looked into."Jacqueline Korn"David Cameron

:17:36. > :17:43.has been forthright. If Ed Miliband tries to make a with this, he

:17:43. > :17:48.should be demoted."Another one,"I wonder why Mr Clegg and Mr Osborne

:17:48. > :17:55.are not joining in the roars of the backbenches."And it would not be

:17:55. > :18:01.PMQs if we did not have a comment on the Speaker. Andrew:"The Speaker

:18:01. > :18:04.needs to come down."A full advice. I'm sure the Speaker will help it -

:18:05. > :18:12.- helpful advice. I'm sure the Speaker will take it. When are we

:18:12. > :18:15.now, Nick Robinson? On the one hand, we have the Prime Minister urging

:18:15. > :18:20.the opposition to come with him, saying that any future meeting

:18:20. > :18:23.between senior politicians and not only -- not ordinary journalists

:18:23. > :18:29.but their editors, managers or proprietors will have to be

:18:29. > :18:32.recorded. We do not know how. I suspect that they will give us the

:18:32. > :18:37.dates -- they will not give us the Danes, but I expect they will say

:18:37. > :18:41.that there were two meetings in the last quarter or so on. When you say

:18:41. > :18:45.recorded, not take it? It will be published, entered into the log

:18:45. > :18:49.book. Later, not bad day, but we will be told that the Prime

:18:49. > :18:53.Minister had a meeting with the likes of Rebekah Brooks, Rupert or

:18:53. > :19:00.James Murdoch or their equivalents in other organisations including

:19:00. > :19:07.the BBC. That is a very significant change. If you speak to the Prime

:19:07. > :19:14.Minister, will bat now be -- well that's now be out? I think he means

:19:14. > :19:17.the people who run the newspapers, so whether it would be the BBC's

:19:18. > :19:21.head of news or the Director General, who knows? It is not yet

:19:21. > :19:25.clear but it seems to me those meetings would be recorded along

:19:25. > :19:28.with those from newspapers as well. There does not seem to be a great

:19:29. > :19:32.problem with that but it is an important change. We will be able

:19:33. > :19:36.to see a pattern of whether politicians are seeing a particular

:19:36. > :19:42.paper or a particular -- particular proprietor in advance of important

:19:42. > :19:46.news stories and business decisions. In addition, we will get under off

:19:46. > :19:50.from a judge the exposure of what happened in the past between

:19:50. > :19:54.politicians and the media. And both Ed Miliband and David Cameron have

:19:54. > :19:59.now publicly said that there is quite a lot in their party's pasts

:19:59. > :20:03.that they regret and in David Cameron's case, his personal past.

:20:03. > :20:08.As it happens, Ed Miliband has had rather limited contact, something

:20:08. > :20:13.that was seen as a problem two weeks ago. Suddenly, having no

:20:13. > :20:18.friends and the media comes -- becomes an asset. That process of

:20:18. > :20:22.exposing who did what, who knew what. One other thing was not said

:20:22. > :20:27.in the statement, which are thought was terribly important. The Prime

:20:27. > :20:31.Minister said"We must look at amending the laws. The fit and

:20:32. > :20:36.proper test, the test that can be applied by the media regulator as

:20:36. > :20:41.to whether anyone is a fit and proper holder of the and

:20:41. > :20:44.broadcasting licence."The problem with that, politicians tell me, is

:20:44. > :20:49.that until there is a conviction, you cannot say someone is not fit

:20:49. > :20:53.and proper. The problem in this case is that the timetable for the

:20:53. > :20:56.takeover of BSkyB is quicker than the timetable for any prosecutions.

:20:56. > :21:00.Therefore, the decision has to be taken before you know whether they

:21:00. > :21:06.are fit and proper. One other thing, he suggested that competition law

:21:06. > :21:09.might have to be changed. The law was set up precisely to stop

:21:09. > :21:14.politicians picking and choosing between which businessmen they

:21:14. > :21:17.liked and which they did not like. Yet it leaves the Prime Minister

:21:17. > :21:21.and the Culture Secretary in a problem, saying, we do not want

:21:21. > :21:24.this to happen but we cannot stop it happening. That leaves

:21:24. > :21:32.Parliament in the extraordinary situation of voting, if there is

:21:32. > :21:35.every vote, and there may not be a vote because of procedural things,

:21:35. > :21:39.voting to stop things happening, but being unable to do so. Margaret

:21:39. > :21:47.Beckett, it looks like the Government has given Mr Miliband

:21:47. > :21:51.what he wanted. It sounds like it. If you go back a week or 10 days,

:21:51. > :21:56.we were calling for evidence on oath and a judge-led inquiry. You

:21:56. > :22:00.name it, and it appears to be all there. If there are any nooks and

:22:00. > :22:06.crannies, it will no doubt come out later. There may be an argument

:22:06. > :22:13.about Heinen -- timing issues. looks as though we have got 80 or

:22:13. > :22:17.90% of what we asked for. Were you struck by what I was struck by?

:22:17. > :22:23.thought there was a personal thing and will the Prime Minister

:22:23. > :22:25.said."The search your bins,"He said,"And you do not complain

:22:25. > :22:29.because you want a good relationship."I thought that was

:22:29. > :22:33.something that anybody on any side of the Commons could have agreed

:22:33. > :22:38.with. It seemed to go beyond the political. I was muttering that

:22:38. > :22:42.that was completely right. We have heard these changes. David Miliband

:22:42. > :22:46.-- Ed Miliband challenged David Cameron to publish retrospective

:22:46. > :22:51.details of meetings with newspaper proprietors. I expect that is

:22:51. > :22:56.because he is assuming that Mr Cameron has had more than Mr

:22:56. > :23:01.Miliband has had. It is confession day. Some people watching this will

:23:01. > :23:06.say that we are effectively in war -- at war in Libya, there is a

:23:06. > :23:12.European sovereign debt crisis gathering momentum and perhaps

:23:12. > :23:19.coming to the boil, and that there is no sign that growth is returning

:23:19. > :23:22.any time soon to this economy. But our political system is going to be

:23:22. > :23:26.dominated by investigations into the media. It is the wrong priority,

:23:26. > :23:30.some people will say. I do not think it is the wrong priority. It

:23:30. > :23:36.is clear the public feels a sense of outrage about what has happened.

:23:36. > :23:39.Listening to Nick, My senses that there is two parts to this. There

:23:39. > :23:45.is looking at the relationship between the police and the media

:23:45. > :23:48.and there is looking at the hacking episode. But there is also a

:23:48. > :23:52.broader context, the relationship between the media and the

:23:53. > :24:00.politicians, going back into the past. I expect that that will give

:24:00. > :24:04.you and your colleagues in the media many, many hours of copy and

:24:04. > :24:09.interview time over the years. It will dominate the political agenda

:24:09. > :24:13.far more than the Iraq Inquiry did. There is also we reason why it is

:24:13. > :24:18.not irrelevant when it comes to talking about Libby and the economy.

:24:18. > :24:23.Nick Robinson made the point about the thing of people going through

:24:23. > :24:27.bins, but the fact is that in any government, for as long as I can

:24:27. > :24:33.remember, making the right decisions about your policy choices

:24:33. > :24:36.is also influenced by how well the meatier -- influenced by how the

:24:36. > :24:42.media treats it and you. Anything that makes that healthier is good

:24:42. > :24:45.for politics. Well that every change, do you seriously think it

:24:45. > :24:50.will? Does it not happen in every democracy in the world you might

:24:50. > :24:54.yes, but it might become less poisonous. In a way, your policy

:24:54. > :25:02.was hijacked by Mr Murdoch and News International. Perhaps that will

:25:02. > :25:08.come out. I would suggest, Nick Robinson, that in the nest -- Nick

:25:08. > :25:12.Robinson, but in the rest of the media, the non National newspapers,

:25:12. > :25:18.they will be saying to Mr Murdoch, look what you have done to us, look

:25:18. > :25:21.what your behaviour has done. agree. I have a personal view, if

:25:21. > :25:26.you permit me. I have met people who were not in the News

:25:26. > :25:30.International empire who have been saying,"Isn't this great?". I have

:25:30. > :25:34.said, be careful what you wish for. This is an investigation that will

:25:34. > :25:38.expose practices that could empower people who want to hamper the press

:25:38. > :25:42.and the media, which could mean that people come for other people

:25:42. > :25:48.in the media. It is all that well to say, let us open it out, but no

:25:48. > :25:52.one knows quite where it will end. What is interesting is that when

:25:52. > :25:56.you go back to wide this was not reopened, John Yates has had lot of

:25:56. > :26:00.criticism but let us be honest, journalists like myself have had

:26:00. > :26:04.criticism for not taking it seriously enough a few months ago.

:26:04. > :26:10.Part of why I believe the police did not reopen the case, as well as

:26:10. > :26:14.other things that may be exposed, it comes to the root of your

:26:14. > :26:17.question, which is, or do not better things to be doing? There

:26:17. > :26:21.was a frustration that the political classes were dragging the

:26:21. > :26:27.police into dealing with their own dirty business and the view of the

:26:27. > :26:31.police was, sort yourself out, politicians. I have to stop you

:26:31. > :26:41.there because I have news for more important than anything you have

:26:41. > :26:41.

:26:41. > :26:46.been talking about. Far more important and rather sad. Sad for

:26:46. > :26:51.us and our regular viewers. After three years, Anita is departing.

:26:51. > :26:56.She leaves behind a treasure trove of memories and great times but we

:26:56. > :27:00.have enjoyed together with the team. Here are some of them. -- that we

:27:00. > :27:10.have enjoyed. Let us see if you can remember when

:27:10. > :27:10.

:27:10. > :27:15.this happened. Bon jour! That is French, don't you

:27:15. > :27:21.know? Repeat after me, argued David

:27:21. > :27:26.Lambie, happy to share a platform with me, Jo Swinson? Why you, David

:27:26. > :27:30.Lambie, happy to share a platform with me, Jo Swinson? -- are you,

:27:30. > :27:40.David Lambie. A healthy body needs a healthy mind.

:27:40. > :27:44.

:27:44. > :27:54.A healthy body, needs a healthy mind.

:27:54. > :27:55.

:27:55. > :28:00.I will do it again. Take two! I am talking nonsense.

:28:00. > :28:10.Are you taking over this interview, David? Let me answer another

:28:10. > :28:14.

:28:14. > :28:20.question. Don't do that, it is not nice.

:28:20. > :28:24.Salut! How can you not be sad after seeing

:28:24. > :28:31.all of that. The flowers on the film was when Anita went off to

:28:31. > :28:32.have a baby. These are flowers for you, my darling. For our last

:28:32. > :28:36.programme. Thank you.

:28:36. > :28:40.What are you going to do now? I have a new show on Radio 5 Live

:28:40. > :28:48.and I will be popping up on Radio 4. You get to pick a winner.

:28:48. > :28:54.It is Josie. You were getting a mug. -- a Daily Politics mug.

:28:54. > :28:58.1945, the Euro was born. We will be back tomorrow night. I will be

:28:58. > :29:02.joined by Michael Portillo, Quentin Letts, Diane Abbott and Jon Snow.