11/08/2011

:00:27. > :00:31.Morning folks. Welcome to this special edition of the Daily

:00:31. > :00:34.Politics. In the aftermath of the riots of the past week MPs have

:00:34. > :00:39.returned to Westminster for an emergency session of parliament to

:00:39. > :00:41.discuss the violence, looting, widespread lawlessness that has

:00:41. > :00:45.swept across most of England's major cities.

:00:45. > :00:49.After four nights of disorder last night was much calmer, thanks to

:00:49. > :00:53.large police numbers and heavy rain, while courts sat through the night

:00:53. > :00:57.to deal with the hundreds of those arrested.

:00:57. > :01:00.In half an hour the Prime Minister will outline more details of what

:01:00. > :01:06.he's called the fightback against the riots when he addresses the

:01:06. > :01:10.Commons. We will have his statement live here at 11.30am. And, as

:01:10. > :01:14.markets tumble further over questions now about France's

:01:14. > :01:23.economy, Chancellor George Osborne will be making a statement on the

:01:23. > :01:26.global financial turbulence. So, all that to come before 1.00

:01:26. > :01:30.this afternoon on this Daily Politics special. With me for the

:01:30. > :01:34.duration Conservative Party chairman Baroness Warsi and former

:01:34. > :01:37.Labour Home Secretary Charles Clarke. Welcome to you both.

:01:37. > :01:42.Now, after four nights when the streets of England's cities became

:01:42. > :01:47.the scene of riots and looting, sometimes unchecked by the police,

:01:47. > :01:53.last night was that bit quieter. But if the immediate threat of

:01:53. > :01:56.continuing riots appears to have died down the questions about

:01:56. > :02:00.police tactics, police response, police numbers, and the political

:02:00. > :02:06.argument over just why England has been riven by riot with areas given

:02:06. > :02:10.over to anarchy for hour upon hour, well they're only just starting.

:02:10. > :02:13.Speaking this morning Labour's shadow Home Secretary, Yvette

:02:13. > :02:17.Cooper, told the BBC that the Government must reverse its

:02:17. > :02:22.decision to cut police budgets. We've always said that we think the

:02:22. > :02:24.scale and pace of the cuts to the police budget is too great. It's

:02:24. > :02:28.unsustainable and is unfair on communities because it is taking

:02:28. > :02:32.risks with law and order. I think the events of the last few days

:02:32. > :02:36.have made it abundantly clear that if you have more officers on the

:02:36. > :02:41.streets, if you have more police out and about it makes a real

:02:41. > :02:45.difference. Speaking for the Government the Liberal Democrat

:02:45. > :02:50.leader and deputy prime minister Nick Clegg rejected the idea that

:02:50. > :02:54.the rioting was linked to cuts in police numbers. I think it's simply

:02:54. > :03:01.ridiculous to say that people have been smashing windows, looting

:03:01. > :03:05.shops, thiefing, stealing, because of Government policies or indeed

:03:05. > :03:09.about cuts to some police numbers which haven't happened and all of

:03:09. > :03:13.which we judge as a Government are entirely managable and will allow

:03:13. > :03:16.the police in the future, just as they have today, to deploy large

:03:16. > :03:21.numbers into areas where that is needed.

:03:21. > :03:27.That's a taste of what we may hear more of in the Commons from the

:03:27. > :03:33.coalition and the Labour opposition in just under half an hour. Charles

:03:33. > :03:37.Clarke, are these riots, will they result in a watershed in British

:03:37. > :03:41.politics? I think they'll be very substantial, at a whole set of

:03:41. > :03:44.levels. Firsly, it tells you that there are consequences to what

:03:44. > :03:51.happens and that means on economic policy, on policing policy and so

:03:51. > :03:53.on, there are consequences. So, I would be very surprised if all the

:03:53. > :03:58.Government - doesn't want to stop and think again about the various

:03:58. > :04:01.policies they're pursuing. Secondly, I think the Prime Minister's

:04:01. > :04:05.metaphor of sickness, which is an interesting one to use in some ways

:04:05. > :04:08.a poor one to use, in my opinion, does raise the question what is the

:04:09. > :04:12.sickness, who is sick, what's the diagnosis, what are the steps that

:04:12. > :04:17.have to be taken in a variety of different ways, in particular areas

:04:17. > :04:20.and so on? In that sense it's a debate worth having. There's a lot

:04:20. > :04:26.to be said about it. Do you have this debate during the 13 years you

:04:26. > :04:29.were in power? Absolutely if you... What went wrong? If you take the

:04:29. > :04:33.sickness metaphor, we went through a set of programmes to recreate and

:04:33. > :04:37.strengthen communities in inner cities. For example, the Sure Start

:04:37. > :04:40.programmes, neighbourhood policing, anti-social behaviour, a range of

:04:40. > :04:47.different things which were done to address this. Doesn't seem to have

:04:47. > :04:50.worked, does it? The biggest failure, I think, was not have a

:04:50. > :04:56.Coe here -- coherent enough approach to children, a group

:04:56. > :05:00.alienated and that's a failure we had. Generally speaking we did

:05:00. > :05:04.commit to solving problemss. Will this be a watershed for the

:05:04. > :05:09.coalition, will it have to rethink its approach in a number of areas.

:05:09. > :05:13.It will have to become more front- footed about some areas we have

:05:13. > :05:16.been talking about. I agree with Charles, that this is a really

:05:16. > :05:20.important debate to have. What is the sickness, where does it come

:05:20. > :05:24.from, what are the underlining causes and what can you do to deal

:05:24. > :05:29.with it? What I would define as a sickness is this culture, this

:05:29. > :05:32.feeling of a lack of personal responsibility. People feeling that,

:05:32. > :05:35.if I can I will. If you hear about some of the people going through

:05:36. > :05:41.the courts these are not deprived disadvantaged or even young people

:05:41. > :05:44.some of them, we heard about some people now in their 30s with jobs

:05:44. > :05:47.who took advantage and it's this culture of I can take advantage of

:05:47. > :05:53.this, I don't have to suffer consequences of my actions and

:05:53. > :05:58.there is that underlining deep- seated cultural... Why does it take

:05:58. > :06:04.a riot to make the political system face this? We have seen in this

:06:04. > :06:08.country an underclass festering for 40 years and getting more and more

:06:08. > :06:11.entrenched and yet on the left and the right you have effectively

:06:11. > :06:14.looked the other way. When we have spoken and I have spoken about the

:06:14. > :06:17.underclass in the past, I mean I have spoken about, for example, my

:06:17. > :06:21.own working class roots and... That's very different. That's

:06:21. > :06:24.different to what we see now as an underclass and we see it across all

:06:24. > :06:27.communities and I have spoken about it in relation to specific

:06:27. > :06:30.communities. When I have spoken about this or indeed when David

:06:30. > :06:35.Cameron has spoken about this when he spoke about broken Britain,

:06:36. > :06:40.there were a lot on the left and even the kind of intelligence on

:06:40. > :06:44.all sides who were a bit sniffy about saying why are we talking

:06:44. > :06:49.about this and maybe in some ways that important debate that David

:06:49. > :06:53.was having and the the khrfs were - - Conservatives were having. Seems

:06:53. > :06:56.to have dropped it recently. Despite much op significant from --

:06:56. > :07:00.op session from people -- opposition not to talk about what

:07:00. > :07:03.it means to have a strong society, to have strong parenting we managed

:07:03. > :07:07.to continually talk about it and this highlights why it's important.

:07:07. > :07:11.OK. Charles Clarke, you doubled public spending in the Labour

:07:11. > :07:16.Government, you had massive amounts of money going into these areas,

:07:16. > :07:21.yet it did not eradicate the core problem of a largely unemployed

:07:21. > :07:24.underclass. It didn't eradicate it. It made massive impact on it and I

:07:24. > :07:27.don't agree with your picture of 40 years of nothing happening in these

:07:28. > :07:31.areas. We had an enormous range of programmes which were targeted

:07:31. > :07:35.specifically at the inner city. For example, the parenting example. We

:07:35. > :07:38.had massive support for parenting precisely to try and address some

:07:38. > :07:41.of these particular problems. I will concede, of course, that we

:07:41. > :07:45.did not solve the problems, that's definitely the case. But it's

:07:45. > :07:48.certainly not the case it was broken Britain or this analysis

:07:48. > :07:50.being described. Britain looks pretty broken to people abroad

:07:50. > :07:53.today. You have a group of thousands of people who have been

:07:53. > :07:56.doing this terrible action, creating fear and if you look at

:07:56. > :07:59.the numbers from the Met, from the West Midlands, that's what it is,

:07:59. > :08:02.thousands, not tens of thousands of people. All right. Thank you for

:08:02. > :08:06.your initial impressions, we will go into more detail in a minute.

:08:06. > :08:11.But let me remind you of how events have unfolded on England's city

:08:11. > :08:14.streets over the past few days. Here is Adam Fleming.

:08:14. > :08:21.Trouble first flared on Saturday night in the north London borough

:08:21. > :08:26.of Tottenham. Police cars were attacked then set on fire, local

:08:26. > :08:30.businesses damaged, homes destroyed. I was trying to get out of the

:08:30. > :08:37.building, we were in such a panic and then we got outside and then I

:08:37. > :08:41.saw the building. Flames going up the building. It started as a

:08:41. > :08:44.peaceful sreupblgily by the -- vigil by friends and family of this

:08:44. > :08:49.man, Mark Duggan who was shot a few days before. Then came the looting

:08:49. > :08:53.at a nearby retail park, where clothes and electronics were stolen.

:08:53. > :08:59.As the community counted the cost of a night of violence, messages

:08:59. > :09:03.were circulating across the city on BlackBerry mobile phones calling

:09:03. > :09:06.for more. That came on the following night. On Monday youths

:09:06. > :09:10.fought battles with riot police in Hackney, south of the river in

:09:10. > :09:16.Croydon a furniture warehouse that survived the two world wars was

:09:16. > :09:21.burned to the ground. The affluent suburb of Ealing looked more like a

:09:21. > :09:27.war zone and shops in Clapham Junction became targets for more

:09:27. > :09:30.looting. Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, flew back early from his

:09:30. > :09:34.holidays, so too did the Prime Minister who called in

:09:34. > :09:38.reinforcements for the under pressure met police. The Police

:09:38. > :09:43.commissioner has said compared with the 6,000 police on the streets

:09:43. > :09:47.last night in London, there will be some 16,000 officers tonight. All

:09:47. > :09:51.leave within the Metropolitan Police has been cancelled. There

:09:51. > :09:55.will be aid coming from police forces up and down the country.

:09:55. > :09:59.That led to a night of relative calm in London, a city that felt

:09:59. > :10:03.like it was in lockdown. But trouble flared in other places,

:10:03. > :10:09.including Birmingham, elsewhere in the Midlands, Manchester, Salford,

:10:09. > :10:13.Gloucester. An ever widening spiral of disorder that's led to hundreds

:10:13. > :10:17.arrested, that's left politicians struggling to keep up and which has

:10:17. > :10:23.stretched the police almost to the limit.

:10:23. > :10:26.Adam Fleming with an overview of events of the past week. We can now

:10:26. > :10:30.join him in parliament as MPs gather for this emergency statement

:10:30. > :10:33.by the Prime Minister. It will happen at 11.30am.

:10:33. > :10:38.Morning, Andrew. MPs are coming back from their holidays for this

:10:38. > :10:43.emergency recall of parliament to listen to David Cameron's statement,

:10:43. > :10:48.then there's going to be a debate lasting to about 7.00pm. I am

:10:48. > :10:52.delighted to say I am joined by Priti Patel, the Conservative MP,

:10:52. > :10:55.and Chuka Umunna, the Labour MP for Streatham in London, there was

:10:55. > :10:58.actually trouble in your constituency at the weekend. Now,

:10:58. > :11:01.how do you make sure this isn't a talking shop with people standing

:11:01. > :11:04.up to condemn the violence and nothing gets done? Well, I think

:11:04. > :11:09.the condemnation will come, that's inevitable, there's no doubt about

:11:09. > :11:12.that. I think the questions will also come in terms of policing, in

:11:12. > :11:17.terms of also the sanctions against these people that have committed

:11:17. > :11:21.these crimes. Actually I think, certainly from my constituents and

:11:21. > :11:23.I am sure others written to, that's what the public want to hear, that

:11:23. > :11:26.action will be taken and importantly they want to know that

:11:26. > :11:29.the state has regained control as well, particularly of our streets.

:11:29. > :11:33.What sort of sanctions are you talking about? I think it's

:11:33. > :11:36.punishments for those that are convicted of violence and

:11:36. > :11:43.criminality. I have spoken this morning about this issue already. I

:11:43. > :11:47.do think we have to look at taking away some of those -- where they

:11:47. > :11:51.have been convicted of criminal acts. What does that mean for

:11:51. > :11:54.sentencing reforms planned by Ken Clarke the just Secretary? That's

:11:54. > :11:58.an open question. That's a piece of legislation going to go through the

:11:58. > :12:02.Commons in the autumn. I think we got to look at the eninforcement of

:12:02. > :12:05.punishment and this is also about welfare reform as well, another

:12:05. > :12:09.piece of legislation, looking at housing benefits, for example and

:12:09. > :12:14.some of the welfare benefits that people are currently getting. We

:12:14. > :12:19.have to relook at that, where they have committed acts of violence and

:12:19. > :12:22.criminality. There was disturbance in your constituency, do you have a

:12:22. > :12:27.theory about the root causes behind all of this? The first thing I

:12:27. > :12:31.would say I don't think we should engage in knee-jerk reaction to

:12:31. > :12:34.what's happened, I say that as an constituency MP who has had an

:12:34. > :12:38.constituency affected by this, it's not just a question of the law,

:12:38. > :12:41.it's a question of the application and enforcement of it. Of course,

:12:41. > :12:45.that brings in lots of issues, for example, police numbers. I mean,

:12:45. > :12:50.there was points in my constituency at the time over the weekend where

:12:50. > :12:54.we were just overwhelmed and so resourcing is an issue there. But I

:12:54. > :12:58.hope today that we are not going to have a competition to see who can

:12:58. > :13:03.express the most outrage and come up with perhaps the most punitive

:13:03. > :13:08.sanctions, hang them and flog them tone of debate, I hope we don't go

:13:08. > :13:11.down that avenue. Secondly, I hope people like myself and my

:13:11. > :13:14.constituents, we are entitled to have a discussion about the deep

:13:14. > :13:17.profound causes of what has happened without accusations that

:13:17. > :13:21.we are somehow appeasing or excusing what went on, because I

:13:21. > :13:23.tell you what, we are the ones who suffered from it. So if anyone can

:13:23. > :13:27.see there is absolutely no justification for what has been

:13:27. > :13:29.going on, it's people in my constituency and members of

:13:29. > :13:34.parliament like myself who represent those that have been

:13:34. > :13:40.affected. Do you agree with your Labour colleagues like khreufbg and

:13:40. > :13:43.Harare har Ken Livingstone and Harriet Harman? I am not sure I

:13:43. > :13:46.necessarily would put it that way myself. Partly because some of

:13:46. > :13:51.those things have still to come through. But there clearly is

:13:51. > :13:55.something that has gone profoundly wrong here. Even although I have

:13:55. > :13:59.said time and again this was opportunistic behaviour, completely

:13:59. > :14:04.inexcusable, we have to look at why is it that people behaving in this

:14:04. > :14:07.way, why are they doing these things? Unless we look for an

:14:07. > :14:13.explanation, unless we look to have a deeper understanding of what has

:14:13. > :14:16.gone on, instead of engaging in a kind of armchair commentary based

:14:16. > :14:19.on anecdotal-style debate we are not going to prevent it happening

:14:19. > :14:23.again. I do not want the people I represent ever having to feel that

:14:23. > :14:30.they can't go and walk on their streets at night ever again. Thank

:14:30. > :14:32.you very much. An idea there I think of some of the things that we

:14:32. > :14:37.will hear in the debate when they get to talk after the Prime

:14:37. > :14:43.Minister's statement. Thank you. Indeed, that is a sense

:14:43. > :14:47.of the mood inside parliament as MPs return and as they were

:14:47. > :14:51.discussing the debate is focusing, part anyway, on police tactics and

:14:51. > :14:54.police numbers. This morning the acting Metropolitan Police

:14:54. > :15:01.Commissioner defended the way the capital's police forces acted

:15:01. > :15:06.What I would like to do is pay tribute to the men and women who

:15:07. > :15:12.went out on Monday night, when we faced unprecedented, unprecedented,

:15:12. > :15:16.violence and damage and criminality and looting. They were so brave. I

:15:17. > :15:23.was so proud of them, in terms of how they did stand up. Any

:15:23. > :15:27.suggestion that the officers stood back is wrong. We are joined now by

:15:27. > :15:32.the former Scotland Yard police commander Bob Milton. Good morning.

:15:32. > :15:36.Welcome to the programme. Sayeeda Warsi, did increasing the numbers

:15:36. > :15:41.of police on the streets on Tuesday night, particularly in London, stop

:15:41. > :15:45.the riots? Yes, I think it made a material difference. So doesn't it

:15:45. > :15:50.follow, therefore, that if you cut the police numbers, as your

:15:50. > :15:53.Government is planning to do, we are more likely to get disorder?

:15:53. > :15:57.what follows police officers should be out on the streets more. They

:15:57. > :16:01.should be spending more of their time in frontline policing rather

:16:01. > :16:08.than completing paperwork. There's a statistic which says the average

:16:08. > :16:12.officer spends 14% of his or her time on patrol and spends 22 % of

:16:12. > :16:19.their time completing paperwork. Are you telling our viewers that,

:16:19. > :16:24.even though overall police numbers are being cut, that's inco

:16:24. > :16:29.veritable, your Government admitted that, there'll not with a reduction

:16:29. > :16:32.of police on the streets? That's exactly what I'm saying. And that's

:16:32. > :16:37.a promise, a guarantee? The Home Secretary has been saying

:16:37. > :16:41.consistently that visible policing, which is what made the difference

:16:41. > :16:48.that night. I understand that. visible policing and the situation

:16:48. > :16:52.of the last three days, that if God forbid a situation like that was to

:16:52. > :16:55.arise we would have the visible police numbers to deal with it

:16:56. > :17:00.after the cuts. So to be clear, whatever the cuts in police budgets

:17:00. > :17:04.that are taking place, that will not lead to a reduction in police

:17:04. > :17:09.numbers fon streets? It will note lead to a reduction in police

:17:09. > :17:13.visibility on the streets. Police officers who currently maybe are

:17:13. > :17:18.sitting... What's the difference between visibility in numbers?

:17:18. > :17:22.actually be a police officer which is a statistic and part of the

:17:22. > :17:25.number but not spend any time on patrol. We are very clear about

:17:25. > :17:29.police visibility on the streets. In fact the reforms are about

:17:29. > :17:36.saying we don't want police officers sat in back rooms. I get

:17:36. > :17:42.the point. Charles Clarke, you are a former Home Secretary, according

:17:42. > :17:51.to Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, in many areas only

:17:51. > :17:55.10% of the total police complement are in their -- are on the streets?

:17:55. > :17:59.In principle it is possible. That's what we were doing about numbers on

:17:59. > :18:04.the streets when I was Home Secretary and beforehand. A series

:18:04. > :18:08.of measures, the most important of which was neighbourhood policing,

:18:08. > :18:11.and establishing the police community support officers. The

:18:11. > :18:16.paperwork Sayeeda refer to is necessary to bring about the

:18:16. > :18:19.conviction of criminals. That's what police are engaged in doing.

:18:19. > :18:23.The airwave radio system, designed to increase the number of people

:18:23. > :18:28.going out on if beat. However, the core point is there's a cynicism

:18:28. > :18:33.and a dishonesty in what both the Home Secretary is saying and what

:18:33. > :18:36.Sayeeda just now said, with the suggestion that somehow you can cut

:18:36. > :18:39.the police gucts the scale that's necessary and at the same time

:18:39. > :18:45.retain the same or more police presence on the streets. I've

:18:45. > :18:49.spoken to many Chief Constables about this and to Denis oh Conor,

:18:49. > :18:56.it is simply not possible at this level. But if only 10% of police

:18:56. > :19:00.are on the streets, why is it not possible, why are 90% elsewhere?

:19:00. > :19:06.Because there's a whole set of patterns of policing, including

:19:06. > :19:10.focusing on areas of particular need. The policing the other need,

:19:11. > :19:16.that would mean there is much less police presence elsewhere. We

:19:17. > :19:22.called off football matches for that purpose. I'm not contesting,

:19:22. > :19:26.Andrew, that it is necessary to get a higher proportion of police time

:19:26. > :19:29.on the street. Would say however, that was being done, is being done,

:19:29. > :19:34.and cannot be done enough to justify the cuts in police numbers

:19:34. > :19:37.which the Government is proposing. You are a former policeman. What do

:19:38. > :19:41.you say? It is not simply how many police officers on the street, but

:19:41. > :19:45.how they operate. The communities over the last few days have given

:19:45. > :19:50.the Police Service a clear mandate. They do not want a Police Service

:19:50. > :19:53.that panders to who shouts loudist, and they are monitored to death.

:19:53. > :19:57.They want police officers going out there enforcing the law. Maybe they

:19:57. > :20:03.want a police force rather than a Police Service. You could say that.

:20:03. > :20:06.The point is that over the last 15- 20 years we've seen a slow erosion

:20:06. > :20:10.of the authority of police officers on the street. What's happening now

:20:10. > :20:15.is the shackles are being removed. We are seeing that large numbers of

:20:15. > :20:18.police officers are not sustainable. Of course we can't keep 16,000. But

:20:18. > :20:22.having police forces on the streets of London and the rest of the

:20:22. > :20:28.country on a 24 hour basis has shown communities what can be done.

:20:28. > :20:32.What do you make of reports in the media that the Metropolitan Police,

:20:32. > :20:36.as these riots gathered pace, and before the show of strength on

:20:36. > :20:42.Tuesday night, that ordinary bobbies in the riot gear and on the

:20:42. > :20:45.streets were instructed, "To stand and observe" rather than take on

:20:45. > :20:49.the rioters. There are two issues there. Can you confirm that?

:20:49. > :20:54.can't confirm, that because I wasn't in the control room. No, but

:20:54. > :20:59.you have contacts in the police. What I can say clearly is when you

:20:59. > :21:02.have disorder, you have to stamp it out straight away. That means

:21:02. > :21:07.getting sufficient people there early. Once you've done that the

:21:07. > :21:10.problem goes away. We didn't get sufficient people there early,

:21:11. > :21:15.because we didn't have sufficient police officers on the response

:21:15. > :21:20.teams 24 hours ago. Police community support officers are a

:21:20. > :21:24.good ideal. A good idea which hasn't worked. These officers

:21:24. > :21:28.individually may be very good but collectively they can't deal with

:21:28. > :21:33.this problem. They very expensive. They are not designed to deal with

:21:33. > :21:37.this type of problem. We need to build up the 24 hour response teams.

:21:37. > :21:42.We need to remove police officers from the offices. Concentrate on

:21:42. > :21:45.police officers on the street who can deal with problems. The rest of

:21:45. > :21:50.the criminal justice system needs to step up and support the Police

:21:50. > :21:56.Service as well. Could you, as chairman of the Conservative Party,

:21:56. > :21:59.could you advise Conservative candidates in Croydon, Ealing,

:21:59. > :22:03.Battersea, all margin of seats which you could win or lose in an

:22:03. > :22:11.election, to justify your Government's policy of cutting

:22:11. > :22:14.police budgets by 2.5 billion and increasing overseas aid by �2.7

:22:14. > :22:20.billion? They are two separate issues. But they are both parts of

:22:20. > :22:23.the pot of money. Tell them how to justify that. Let me deal with the

:22:23. > :22:28.two issues separately. In relation to the police budget cuts, let's

:22:28. > :22:31.not forget this is about 6% in real cash terms. When we keep talking

:22:31. > :22:35.about billions and trillions it is very important to work this out in

:22:35. > :22:41.terms of what the police will be losing in real cash terms, and how

:22:41. > :22:45.they can be sure that the police numbers... The Mayor of London, a

:22:45. > :22:50.Tory.... He has every right to make a bid for more money, but that was

:22:50. > :22:54.the decision that was taken. Internationally it is not

:22:54. > :22:58.particularly popular and not particularly something that

:22:58. > :23:02.everybody would support. Wouldn't people think it is time to give aid

:23:02. > :23:05.to Croydon, Ealing and Tottenham and the inner cities of Manchester

:23:05. > :23:11.and Liverpool? I think you are completely wrong to compare the

:23:11. > :23:18.famine in Somalia, the floods in Pakistan, all the other programmes,

:23:18. > :23:21.to what happened in Tottenham. These are two completely different

:23:21. > :23:23.areas. I think as Conservative Party co-chairman one of the things

:23:23. > :23:28.I am proud about is the fact that the Conservative Party is saying

:23:28. > :23:32.that, as a party, we value the fact that despite being in tough

:23:32. > :23:36.financial circumstances we should stand by the poorest in the world.

:23:36. > :23:42.Bob Milton, have the police have a loss of confidence? Has there been

:23:42. > :23:47.a problem of the events of the G20 summit and the policeman, where the

:23:47. > :23:51.news agent was killed. Absolutely. And complaints about kettling

:23:51. > :23:55.during the student demonstrations, even though some were quite

:23:55. > :23:59.violent? Is there a feeling in the police force if we come down too

:23:59. > :24:02.hard we get thumped, and if we stand back we get thumped?

:24:02. > :24:06.Absolutely. I'm in contact with young police officers on the street

:24:06. > :24:11.and they are fearful. They have to think three or four times before

:24:11. > :24:16.making a decision. This this change this? I think it will. This is a

:24:16. > :24:18.watershed. If politicians, leaders of the police force and communities

:24:18. > :24:22.get together, there is an opportunity here to really change

:24:22. > :24:28.the way we police London and the rest of the country. And the

:24:28. > :24:32.Government is about to make it worse by getting Boris Johnson who

:24:32. > :24:38.sacked Commissioners of police and eroded that morale. That is not

:24:38. > :24:41.true, Charles. I'm sure some people in Ealing and Battersea and

:24:41. > :24:45.Tottenham wish they had more control over the police on Saturday

:24:45. > :24:48.night. But not Boris Johnson. leave that to Boris.

:24:48. > :24:53.The debate about police tactics and numbers centre stage, but what

:24:53. > :24:59.about the deeper questions, about why these looters and rioters, why

:24:59. > :25:01.did they take to the streets in the first place? Was it opportunistic?

:25:01. > :25:05.Yesterday the Prime Minister returned to his broken Britain

:25:05. > :25:10.theme. He made a lot about nit opposition. He said, "There are

:25:10. > :25:17.pockets of our society that aren't just broken but are frankly sick."

:25:17. > :25:20.Harriet Harman struck a more sympathetic tone, citing youth

:25:20. > :25:24.unemployment and the Education Maintenance Allowance.

:25:24. > :25:28.She said young people feel they are not being listened to by the

:25:29. > :25:34.current Government Boris Johnson chose the moment to fire an awkward

:25:34. > :25:38.shot across the bows of the Government. He said this is not a

:25:38. > :25:43.time to think about making substantial cuts in police numbers.

:25:43. > :25:45.Ken Livingstone blamed the rioting on the Government's spending cuts.

:25:45. > :25:49.The economic stagnation and cuts being imposed by the Tory

:25:49. > :25:53.Government, he said, inevitably create social division.

:25:53. > :25:59.So, the political blame game is now well under way. We'll probably get

:25:59. > :26:04.more of it when we go to Parliament at 11.30. For the moment we are

:26:04. > :26:08.joined by the BBC's Nick Robinson. Nick, good to see you in August!

:26:08. > :26:12.Labour's line on this, I'm a little unsure what it is at the moment. It

:26:12. > :26:15.seemed for a while they were emphasising the law and order

:26:15. > :26:18.approach. Now we have Harriet Harman, put aside Ken Livingstone,

:26:18. > :26:22.who is a law under to himself, but Harriet Harman talking about

:26:22. > :26:27.Government cuts. I think Ed Miliband has been determined to

:26:27. > :26:31.keep his party talking about one thing - public order. Which is why

:26:31. > :26:35.he didn't back Ken Livingstone when he seemed to link wit the cuts. He

:26:35. > :26:40.certainly didn't back Harriet Harman when she, in rather

:26:40. > :26:43.difficulty language, and she insists she was misquoted by

:26:43. > :26:49.Newsnight, she seemed to suggest there was a cut in Education

:26:49. > :26:55.Maintenance Allowance, cuts in koulth services. Is it?

:26:55. > :26:57.directly. You have to have policies to help aspiration. The idea that

:26:57. > :27:02.the Government's policies are causing the action on the streets

:27:02. > :27:06.is wrong. It doesn't help what's happening in inner cities but to

:27:06. > :27:11.say these events took place because of a Government cut on EMA, that's

:27:11. > :27:17.wrong. Who was in charge, Warsi works of the country when the riots

:27:17. > :27:20.began on Saturday night? The Prime Minister was in charge. He was

:27:20. > :27:24.informed constantly what was happening. He was in Tuscany.

:27:24. > :27:30.was informed what was happening. The Home Secretary was aware of

:27:30. > :27:34.what was happening and when he realised things were getting worse

:27:34. > :27:37.he returned. People do want to know who was in charge. Even if the

:27:37. > :27:44.Prime Minister was in charge, I understand about modern

:27:44. > :27:50.communications, and he was only in Tuscany, not that far away, only an

:27:50. > :27:54.hour's time difference. Where were you? I was in France, but I don't

:27:54. > :28:00.run the country. Of course not. he was in charge, why did it take

:28:00. > :28:04.until Tuesday night to get a robust response? Wing we can sit here and

:28:04. > :28:07.we can talk who was where at what time? What's the answer to my

:28:07. > :28:11.question? What is moist important is did we make sure that our

:28:11. > :28:15.streets were protected. You didn't! Did the Prime Minister make sure

:28:15. > :28:19.the situation was brought under control. Many people would say you

:28:19. > :28:24.didn't. Why did it take until Tuesday night, so that people in

:28:24. > :28:28.Tottenham and in Hackney and in Birmingham and Liverpool, Ealing

:28:28. > :28:31.and so on, by then ordinary shopkeepers had been burnt out of

:28:31. > :28:35.their premises. If the Prime Minister was running the country on

:28:35. > :28:39.Saturday night, why did it take until Tuesday night? If you are

:28:39. > :28:43.saying that if the Prime Minister had been in the country none of

:28:43. > :28:47.that would have happened, which is what you are suggesting. No, I'm

:28:47. > :28:50.not making the issue of where he was. I'm asking you, if the Prime

:28:50. > :28:53.Minister as in charge of the country, why did it take until

:28:53. > :28:56.Tuesday night? Because, if that's what you are suggesting that the

:28:56. > :29:00.Prime Minister was not in the country. Just answer the question.

:29:00. > :29:04.I'm not suggesting anything. are. I will ask it again. If the

:29:04. > :29:09.Prime Minister was in charge of the country on Saturday night, why did

:29:09. > :29:14.it take until Tuesday night, after which so much destruction and

:29:14. > :29:18.ordinary people had their lives shattered y did it take until then.

:29:18. > :29:22.You can keep eemphasising the question. This was a changing set

:29:22. > :29:27.of circumstances. We have in the past had public disorder, looting,

:29:27. > :29:31.robberies and burglaries. What we had on these nights were looting,

:29:31. > :29:38.robberies and public disorder, widespread, in different areas at

:29:38. > :29:41.the same time, with gangs using social networking sites, BlackBerry

:29:41. > :29:47.Messenger and Twitter to get together quickly and move on to a

:29:47. > :29:52.new area. I'm sure once our streets are safe, once we've moved on from

:29:52. > :29:55.all of this, of course lots of people will look back at what could

:29:55. > :30:00.have been done operationally, whether policing would coo have

:30:00. > :30:03.been done differently. These will have to be answered. Let's admit

:30:03. > :30:09.not forget the extreme circumstances we found ourselves.

:30:09. > :30:12.It was right for the Prime Minister to say when he realised this was an

:30:13. > :30:17.everchanging matter he was in the country and he made sure our

:30:17. > :30:23.streets were protected. Sundaying morn there was anarchy in

:30:23. > :30:27.Wood Green. Shops were being looted, people terrorised, with impunity by

:30:27. > :30:35.Sunday morning it was clear something different was taking

:30:35. > :30:38.place. Why was there no real This was a constantly changing

:30:38. > :30:41.situation which the Prime Minister was aware of and when he felt the

:30:41. > :30:44.matter had got worse, having been in contact constantly throughout

:30:44. > :30:48.that period, he returned. He took charge and what we should look at

:30:48. > :30:53.is how we then took charge, how he then made sure that the streets

:30:53. > :30:57.were protected, the operational changes were made, and people felt

:30:57. > :31:00.that their streets were protected. We can go over this over and over

:31:00. > :31:04.again, or we can actually say right now what's the most important thing

:31:04. > :31:07.is to make sure people feel safe on the streets of London and in other

:31:07. > :31:09.cities and things get back to normal. People will now make up

:31:09. > :31:14.their minds whether you have answered the question or not.

:31:14. > :31:18.have. It's up to the viewer. It's not for me to decide or the you,

:31:18. > :31:26.the viewers will decide and will let us know in these days of tweets

:31:26. > :31:31.and e-mails. What's the mood on the Tory backbenches at the moment?

:31:31. > :31:33.will discover, most of them have been away. I was in Wolverhampton

:31:34. > :31:36.with the Prime Minister yesterday. What you were talking about there,

:31:36. > :31:39.there was a debate in Downing Street about whether to bring the

:31:39. > :31:43.Prime Minister back with some people inside Number 10 concerned

:31:43. > :31:47.that the act of bringing him home would somehow make it appear more

:31:48. > :31:52.of a crisis. Bear in mind there are always calls on senior politicians

:31:52. > :31:55.to come back from holidays and always resistance from them and

:31:55. > :31:58.their aides because the danger is you set a precedent and you do it

:31:58. > :32:01.endlessly. There had been calls for the Prime Minister to return

:32:01. > :32:05.because of the economic crisis before this happened but it's clear

:32:05. > :32:09.that there are a number of people in Number 10 saying do not bring

:32:09. > :32:14.David Cameron home, it will make it look worse and eventually those who

:32:14. > :32:19.were in favour of persuading him to come home did succeed but they now

:32:19. > :32:22.regret I think they didn't do it sooner. I was trying to raise the

:32:22. > :32:26.issue of not whether or not the Prime Minister should have come

:32:26. > :32:29.home or not, that's a matter of judgment, but if as the chairman

:32:29. > :32:32.has told us the Prime Minister was in charge of the country from

:32:32. > :32:36.Tuscany, with the help of others, why did it take so long to get a

:32:36. > :32:39.response? That's an excellent question, the issue is about the

:32:39. > :32:42.command and control mechanism which is not about where the Prime

:32:42. > :32:46.Minister is physically. That was my point. The question is what was the

:32:46. > :32:50.command and control mechanism. I don't understand why COBRA was

:32:50. > :32:53.brought together over the Prime Minister returned. COBRA could have

:32:53. > :32:56.been brought together on Sunday or Monday by the Home Secretary or by

:32:56. > :32:59.another Minister as appropriate, not even necessarily Government

:32:59. > :33:02.Minister, it could have been a senior official, if it was

:33:02. > :33:06.necessary to bring together. Presumably the Prime Minister could

:33:06. > :33:09.have joined by video or phone. easily. I believe the reason

:33:09. > :33:14.actually is that the scale of the problem wasn't understood by the

:33:14. > :33:18.Government, possibly even by the Metropolitan Police until as late

:33:18. > :33:21.as about Monday lunchtime. Isn't there another factor here, which

:33:21. > :33:24.you will know from your time as Home Secretary, part of the change

:33:24. > :33:27.in the responsibilities for the Metropolitan Police means nobody's

:33:27. > :33:34.sure who is in charge, not only do you have an acting Commissioner at

:33:34. > :33:37.the met, he has two bosses, the Home Secretary and the Mayor of

:33:37. > :33:40.London, who both happened to be on holiday. There seemed a lack of

:33:40. > :33:44.clarity. And this was an operational matter and should have

:33:44. > :33:47.been dealt with by the operational response of people responsible.

:33:47. > :33:52.It's why I am concerned about the whole question of elected

:33:52. > :33:58.Commissioners and so on. You have an absolutely clear operational

:33:58. > :34:00.accountability, without that accountability being consistently

:34:00. > :34:06.second-guessed, as Boris Johnson done with this police force in

:34:06. > :34:10.London and led to a morale collapse at the top of the Met meaning a

:34:10. > :34:12.real absence of leadership at a time when it was needed.

:34:12. > :34:16.tactics clearly did change later in the week and changed after the

:34:16. > :34:21.Prime Minister returned, chaired COBRA and the Prime Minister's not

:34:21. > :34:25.in charge of it at all. You had Kit Malthouse, Boris Johnson's deputy

:34:25. > :34:29.was in the country dealing with the police, then Boris Johnson returns,

:34:29. > :34:33.in the end it did appear that tactics consciously changed after

:34:33. > :34:39.the Prime Minister returned. Let me tell our viewers it's now just

:34:39. > :34:42.coming up to 25 minutes to 12, you are watching a Daily Politics

:34:42. > :34:47.special to coincide with the return of parliament. You should be able

:34:47. > :34:50.to look at it there, it's a packed House. They've all come back from

:34:50. > :34:53.holidays. We are waiting on the Prime Minister to make his

:34:53. > :34:57.statement, it will be followed by a statement from the leader of the

:34:57. > :35:06.opposition and then the Prime Minister will take questions from

:35:07. > :35:12.backbenchers on both sides. Charles Clarke, a lot of talk about

:35:12. > :35:16.the traditional forms of social deprivation that can cause social

:35:16. > :35:19.unrest and so on. If you take Tottenham, I was looking at the

:35:20. > :35:24.figures, where this all started, I am going to have to hold that

:35:24. > :35:31.question... We go straight to the House.

:35:31. > :35:35.The question is as on the order papers. The ayes have it. Statement

:35:35. > :35:39.from the Prime Minister. Thank you Mr Speaker.

:35:39. > :35:42.With permission, I would like to make a statement. First of all, let

:35:42. > :35:45.me thank you Mr Speaker and honourable and right honourable

:35:45. > :35:49.members for returning. When there are important events in our country

:35:49. > :35:53.it is right that parliament is recalled and that we show a united

:35:53. > :35:56.front. I am grateful to the leader of the opposition for the

:35:56. > :35:59.constructive approach he has taken over the past few days. I have

:35:59. > :36:02.tried to speak with many of the members whose constituencies have

:36:02. > :36:05.been affected and I would like to pay particular tribute to the

:36:05. > :36:10.member for Tottenham for his powerful words and actions over

:36:10. > :36:14.recent days. What we have seen on the streets of London and in other

:36:14. > :36:18.cities across our country is completely unacceptable and I am

:36:18. > :36:21.sure the whole House will join me in condemning it. Keeping people

:36:21. > :36:26.safe is the first duty of Government. The whole country has

:36:26. > :36:31.been shocked by the most appalling scenes of people looting, violence,

:36:31. > :36:35.vandalising and thiefing. It is criminality, pure and simple and

:36:35. > :36:40.there is absolutely no excuse for it. We have seen houses, offices

:36:40. > :36:44.and shops raided and torched, police officers assaulted and

:36:44. > :36:48.firecrews attacked as they tried to put out fires. We have seen people

:36:48. > :36:51.robbing others while they lie injured and bleeding in the street.

:36:51. > :36:56.And even three innocent people being deliberately run over and

:36:56. > :37:00.killed in Birmingham. Mr Speaker, we will not put up with this in our

:37:00. > :37:04.country. We will not allow a culture of fear to exist on our

:37:04. > :37:09.streets and we will do whatever it takes to restore law and order and

:37:09. > :37:14.to rebuild our communities. First we must be clear about the sequence

:37:14. > :37:17.of events. A week ago today a 29- year-old man named Mark Duggan was

:37:17. > :37:22.shot dead by the police in Tottenham. Clearly there are

:37:22. > :37:26.questions that must be answered and I can assure the House that this is

:37:26. > :37:28.being investigated thoroughly and independently by the Independent

:37:28. > :37:33.Police Complaints Commission. We must get to the bottom of exactly

:37:33. > :37:36.what happened and we will. Mr Speaker, initially there were

:37:36. > :37:39.peaceful demonstrations following Mark Duggan's death and

:37:39. > :37:45.understandably and appropriately the police were cautious about how

:37:46. > :37:49.they dealt with this. However, this was then used as an excuse by

:37:49. > :37:53.opportunistic thugs in gangs, first in Tottenham then across London and

:37:53. > :37:59.in other cities and it's completely wrong to say there is any

:37:59. > :38:05.justifiable causal link. It is simply preposterous for anyone to

:38:05. > :38:09.suggest people looting in Tottenham, days later in Salford were in any

:38:09. > :38:13.way doing so because of the death of Mark Duggan. The young people

:38:13. > :38:18.stealing televisions and burning shops, that was not about politics

:38:18. > :38:21.or protest, it was about theft. Mr Speaker, in recent days individual

:38:21. > :38:24.police officers have shown incredible bravery and worked in

:38:24. > :38:31.some cases around the clock without a break and they deserve our

:38:32. > :38:35.support and our thanks. But what came increasingly clear this week

:38:35. > :38:40.there was simply far too few police deployed on to our streets and the

:38:40. > :38:43.tactics they were using weren't working. Police chiefs have been

:38:43. > :38:47.frank with me about why this happened. Initially the police

:38:47. > :38:51.treated the situation too much as a public order issue, rather than

:38:51. > :38:56.essentially one of crime. The truth is that the police have been facing

:38:56. > :39:00.a new and unique challenge, with different people doing the same

:39:00. > :39:04.thing basically looting in different places, but all at the

:39:04. > :39:08.same time. Mr Speaker, to respond to this situation we are acting

:39:08. > :39:11.decisively to restore order on our streets, to support the victims of

:39:11. > :39:16.this terrible violence, and to look at the deeper problems that have

:39:16. > :39:20.led to such a hard core of young people to decide to carry out such

:39:20. > :39:24.appalling criminality. Let me take each in turn. First, restoring

:39:24. > :39:26.order. Following the meetings of COBRA which I chaired on Tuesday

:39:26. > :39:31.and Wednesday and again this morning we have taken decisive

:39:31. > :39:34.action to help ensure more robust and effective policing. Because of

:39:34. > :39:37.decisions made by Metropolitan Police Commissioner Tim Godwin and

:39:37. > :39:42.other police chiefs up and down the country there are more police on

:39:42. > :39:44.the streets, more people being arrested, and more criminals being

:39:45. > :39:50.prosecuted. The Metropolitan Police increased the number deployed on

:39:50. > :39:54.the streets of London from 6,000 to almost 16,000 officers and this

:39:54. > :39:58.number will remain throughout the weekend. We have also seen large

:39:58. > :40:01.increases in deployments of officers in other affected areas.

:40:01. > :40:06.Leave in affected forces has been cancelled. Police officers have

:40:06. > :40:10.been bussed from forces across the country to areas of greatest need

:40:10. > :40:15.and many businesses have also quite rightly released special constables

:40:15. > :40:18.to help and they performed magnificently as well. More than

:40:18. > :40:22.1200 people have been arrested. We are making technology work for us

:40:22. > :40:26.by capturing images of the perpetrators on CCTV so even if

:40:26. > :40:31.they haven't been yet arrested their faces are known and they will

:40:31. > :40:34.not escape the law. As I said yesterday, no phoney human rights

:40:34. > :40:38.concerns about publishing photographs will get in the way of

:40:38. > :40:42.bringing these criminals to justice. Anyone charged with violent

:40:42. > :40:46.disorder and other serious offences should expect to be remanded in

:40:46. > :40:50.custody, not let back on the streets. And anyone convicted

:40:50. > :40:53.should expect to go to jail. Courts in London, Manchester, and the West

:40:53. > :40:59.Midlands have been sitting through the night and will do so for as

:40:59. > :41:01.long as is necessary. Magistrates courts have proved effective in

:41:01. > :41:04.ensuring swift justice. Crown courts are starting to deal with

:41:04. > :41:06.the most serious of cases. We are keeping under constant review

:41:06. > :41:10.whether the courts have the necessary sentencing powers that

:41:10. > :41:14.they need and we will act if necessary. As a result of the

:41:14. > :41:18.robust and uncompromising measures that have been taken, good progress

:41:18. > :41:21.is being made in restoring order to the streets of London and other

:41:21. > :41:26.cities around our country. As I have made clear, nothing should be

:41:26. > :41:31.off the table, every constingency should be looked at. The police are

:41:31. > :41:35.also authorised to use baton rounds and while they would not be

:41:35. > :41:39.appropriate now, we do have in place plans for water cannon to be

:41:39. > :41:42.available at 24 hours' notice. Some people have raised the issue of the

:41:42. > :41:46.Army. The acting Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police said to me

:41:46. > :41:50.that he would rather be the last man left in Scotland Yard with all

:41:50. > :41:54.his management team out on the streets before he asked for Army

:41:54. > :41:58.support. That is the right attitude and one I share. But it is the

:41:58. > :42:01.Government's responsibility to make sure that every future contingency

:42:01. > :42:06.is looked at, including whether there are tasks that the Army could

:42:06. > :42:09.undertake that might free up more police for the front front --

:42:09. > :42:14.frontline. Everyone watching these horrific actions will be struck by

:42:14. > :42:17.how they were organised by social media. Information can be used for

:42:17. > :42:20.good, but it can also be used for ill so we are working with the

:42:20. > :42:23.police, intelligence services and industry to look at whether it

:42:23. > :42:26.would be right to stop people communicating via these websites

:42:26. > :42:31.and services when we know they're plotting violence, disorder and

:42:31. > :42:35.criminality. I have also asked the police if they need any other new

:42:35. > :42:39.powers. Specifically on face masks, currently they can only ask for

:42:39. > :42:42.these to be removed in a specific geographical location and for a

:42:42. > :42:47.limited time. I can announce today that we are going to give the

:42:47. > :42:50.police the discretion to require the removal of face coverings under

:42:50. > :42:54.any circumstances where there is reasonable suspicion they're

:42:54. > :42:59.related to criminal activity. And on dealing with crowds, we are

:42:59. > :43:02.looking also at the use of the existing des%al powers and with

:43:02. > :43:07.wider power of curfew is necessary. Mr Speaker, whenever the police

:43:07. > :43:09.face a new threat they must have the freedom and the confidence to

:43:09. > :43:14.change tactics as necessary. This Government will always make sure

:43:14. > :43:18.they have the backing and political support to do so. The fightback has

:43:18. > :43:22.well and truly begun. But there will be no complacency, and we will

:43:22. > :43:26.not stop this mindless violence and thuggery is defeated and law and

:43:26. > :43:29.order is fully restored on all our streets. Let me turn to the

:43:29. > :43:32.innocent victims. No one will forget the images of the woman

:43:32. > :43:38.jumping from a burning building, or the furniture shop that had

:43:38. > :43:42.survived the blitz but now has been tragically burned to the ground.

:43:42. > :43:46.And everyone will have been impressed by the brave words of

:43:46. > :43:51.Tariq Jahan, whose son was brutally and tragically run over and killed.

:43:51. > :43:55.Shops, businesses, homes, too many have been vandalised or destroyed.

:43:55. > :43:59.And I give the people affected this promise: We will help you repair

:43:59. > :44:03.the damage, get your businesses back up and running and support

:44:03. > :44:06.your communities. Let me take each in turn. On repairing the damages I

:44:06. > :44:10.can confirm that any individual home owner or business that's

:44:10. > :44:14.suffered damage to, or loss of their buildings, or property as a

:44:14. > :44:23.result of rioting can seek compensation under the riot damages

:44:23. > :44:28.Act even if uninsured. The Whereas normally claims must be received

:44:28. > :44:31.within 14 days, we will extend the period to 42 days. The Association

:44:31. > :44:35.of British Insurers have said they expect the industry to be paying

:44:35. > :44:39.out in excess of �200 million and have assured us that claims will be

:44:39. > :44:43.dealt with as quickly and constructively as possible. On

:44:43. > :44:46.supporting business, we are we are setting up a new �20 million

:44:46. > :44:51.support scheme to help affected businesses get back up and running

:44:51. > :45:01.quickly. And to minimise the cost facing businesses the Government

:45:01. > :45:03.

:45:03. > :45:06.will enable authorities local to We will defer tax payments for

:45:06. > :45:11.businesses in greater need. For houses and businesses that have

:45:11. > :45:14.been most badly damaged we've instructed the valuation office to

:45:14. > :45:18.stop liability for council tax and business rates. A specific point

:45:18. > :45:22.was raised with me in Wolverhampton yesterday, that planning

:45:22. > :45:25.regulations make it difficult for shops to put up protective shutters.

:45:25. > :45:29.We will weed out unnecessary planning regulations to ensure that

:45:30. > :45:33.businesses can get back on their feet and feel secure on our high

:45:33. > :45:40.streets as soon as possible. On supporting local communities, I

:45:40. > :45:46.can confirm that the Bellwyn scheme to support local authorities will

:45:46. > :45:50.be parable. However, to support urgent funding we are establishing

:45:50. > :45:53.a �2 million recovery scheme to support councils to make areas safe,

:45:53. > :45:58.clean and clear again. The Government will meet the immediate

:45:58. > :46:00.costs of emergency accommodation for families made homeless by these

:46:00. > :46:03.disturbance. The Secretaries of State for communities, local

:46:03. > :46:06.Government and business have made available to the House details of

:46:06. > :46:10.all those schemes today. The situation continues to evolve and

:46:10. > :46:15.we will keep any additional support under close review.

:46:15. > :46:20.Finally, Mr Speaker, let me turn to the deeper problems. Responsibility

:46:20. > :46:23.for crime always lies with the criminal. MEMBERS: Hear, hear..

:46:23. > :46:30.These people were all volunteers. They didn't have to do what they

:46:30. > :46:34.did, and they must suffer the consequences. But crime has a

:46:34. > :46:38.context, we must not shy away from it. I've said before there's a

:46:38. > :46:42.major problem in society with children Gloag up not knowing the

:46:42. > :46:47.difference between right and wrong. This is not about poverty but

:46:47. > :46:53.culture. A culture that glorifys violence, that shows disrespect to

:46:53. > :46:56.authority, that knows everything about rights and nothing about

:46:56. > :47:01.responsibilities. In too many cases the parents, if they are still

:47:01. > :47:05.around, don't care where their children are or what they are doing.

:47:05. > :47:08.The possibly consequences have been clear for too long without enough

:47:08. > :47:13.action being taken. As I said yesterday there is no one step that

:47:13. > :47:17.can be taken but we need a benefit system that rewards work and is on

:47:17. > :47:20.the side of families. We need more discipline in our schools, action

:47:21. > :47:24.to deal with the most disruptive families and a criminal justice

:47:24. > :47:28.system that score as clear and heavy line between right and wrong.

:47:28. > :47:33.In short, all action necessary to help mend our broken society. At

:47:33. > :47:37.the heart of all the violence sits the issue of street gangs.

:47:37. > :47:43.Territorial, hire ark cal and incredibly violent, they are mostly

:47:43. > :47:46.composed of young boys, mainly from dysfunctional homes. They earn

:47:46. > :47:50.money through crime, particularly drugs, and are bound together by an

:47:50. > :47:57.imposed loyalty to a gang leader. They have blighted life on their

:47:57. > :47:59.estates with gang on gang murders and proup volcanoed attacks on nebt

:47:59. > :48:02.bystanders. There is evidence that they've been behind the co-

:48:02. > :48:09.ordination of attacks on police and the looting that followed. I want

:48:10. > :48:15.us to use the record of success against gangs from cities like bost

:48:15. > :48:18.ston in the USA and Strathclyde Police, andened want this to be a

:48:19. > :48:21.national priority. We've introduced gang injunction and I can announce

:48:21. > :48:25.today we are going to use them across the whole country for

:48:25. > :48:28.children and adults. There are further sanctions available beyond

:48:28. > :48:32.the criminal justice system. Local authorities and landlords already

:48:32. > :48:36.have tough powers to evict the perpetrators from social housing.

:48:36. > :48:40.Some local authorities are already doing this. I want to see others

:48:40. > :48:43.follow their lead. We will consider whether these powers need to be

:48:43. > :48:47.strengthened further. The I've asked the Home Secretary to work

:48:47. > :48:53.with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and other

:48:54. > :48:59.colleagues on a cross-Government programme to act on gang come. We

:48:59. > :49:06.should be looking beyond our shores to learn lessons, and that's why I

:49:06. > :49:10.shall discuss further with the Commissioner of Police in Los

:49:10. > :49:14.Angeles. The problem is not just gangs. There were people who saw

:49:14. > :49:18.shop windows smashed and thought it would be OK to go in and steal. It

:49:18. > :49:21.is not OK. These people too will have to face the full consequences

:49:21. > :49:28.of their actions. Mr Speaker, in the past few days

:49:28. > :49:33.we've seen a range of emotions sweep this country. Anger, fear,

:49:33. > :49:37.frustration, despair, sadness, and finally a determined resolve that

:49:37. > :49:42.we will not let a violent few beat us. We saw this resolve in the

:49:42. > :49:51.people who gathered in Clapham, Manchester, Wolverhampton with

:49:51. > :49:56.brooms to clean up our streets. We saw any knows that patrol in --

:49:56. > :50:00.patrolled the roads. Those who protected the Southall temple to.

:50:00. > :50:04.The law abiding people who play by the rules and are the overwhelming

:50:04. > :50:08.majority in our country, I stay fight-back has begun. We will

:50:08. > :50:12.protect you. If you've had your livelihood and property damaged we

:50:12. > :50:16.will compensate you. We are on your side. To the lawless minority, the

:50:16. > :50:20.criminals who've taken what they can get, I say this. We will track

:50:20. > :50:24.you down. We will find you. We will charge you. We will punish you. You

:50:24. > :50:28.will pay for what you have done. We need to show the world, which has

:50:28. > :50:31.looked on frankly appalled, that perpetrators of the violence we've

:50:32. > :50:36.seen on our streets are note in anyway representative of our

:50:36. > :50:40.country, nor of our young people. We need to show them that we will

:50:40. > :50:43.address our broken society. We will restore a sense of stronger

:50:43. > :50:50.morality and responsibility in every town, in every street and in

:50:50. > :50:53.every estate. And aee away from the Olympics we need to show them the

:50:53. > :50:58.Britain that doesn't destroy but that builds. That doesn't give up

:50:58. > :51:03.but stands up, that doesn't look back and always looks forward. I

:51:03. > :51:07.commend this statement to the house. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband.

:51:07. > :51:11.Speaker, can I thank the Prime Minister for his statement and

:51:11. > :51:16.thank him for his suggestion to suggest to you, Mr Speaker, that

:51:16. > :51:20.Parliament was recalled? Whatever dedisagree on, week by week, month

:51:20. > :51:23.by month, today as a House of Commons we stand shoulder to

:51:23. > :51:27.shoulder, united against the vandalism and violence we have seen

:51:27. > :51:32.on our streets. The victims are the innocent people, who live in many

:51:32. > :51:36.of our cities, who have seen their homes and businesses destroyed.

:51:36. > :51:41.Their communities damaged. And their confidence about their own

:51:41. > :51:46.safety undermined. There can be no excuses. No justification. This

:51:46. > :51:51.behaviour has disgusted us all. It can't be allowed to stand. We will

:51:51. > :51:54.not allow it to stand. I want to join the Prime Minister in mourning

:51:54. > :51:58.the loss of life we've seen, including those killed in London

:51:58. > :52:05.and Birmingham. Our thoughts are with the family and friends of

:52:05. > :52:09.those who've died. With people like Haroon Jahan. We stand -- people

:52:09. > :52:15.like Tariq gentleman gentleman. He is the true face of Britain, the

:52:15. > :52:19.Britain of which we are all proud. I want to thank our brave policemen

:52:19. > :52:24.and women for the work they've been doing on our behalf, and the

:52:24. > :52:27.emergency services. We salute them for their courage, their dedication

:52:27. > :52:31.and their willingness to put themselves in harm's way for all of

:52:31. > :52:35.us and all our communities. Mr Speaker, thank to them a degree of

:52:35. > :52:40.order has been re-established on our streets. But from all sides of

:52:40. > :52:44.this House we know what the public want and are entitled to. A return

:52:44. > :52:49.to normality as well as order. Normality does not mean shops

:52:49. > :52:53.having to shut at 3.00pm because they fear looting. Normality does

:52:53. > :52:57.not mean rushing home because you are scared to be on the streets.

:52:57. > :53:01.Normality does not mean being fearful in your own home. They want

:53:01. > :53:06.to have back the most fundamental of all liberties, the ability to go

:53:06. > :53:11.about their business and lead their lives with security and without

:53:12. > :53:16.fear. They have a right to expect it and we have a responsibility to

:53:16. > :53:20.make it happen. Mr Speaker, to do this Parliament needs to do its job.

:53:21. > :53:25.Uniting against the violence, and being the place where we examine

:53:25. > :53:28.and debate all the issues involved. How we've got here, what it says

:53:28. > :53:33.about Britain, and what the response should be. First on

:53:33. > :53:37.policing, Mr Speaker, on the Army, I agree with what the Prime

:53:37. > :53:41.Minister said, which is that this is a job for the police. Can he in

:53:42. > :53:46.his response say what functions he thinks the Army might be able to do

:53:46. > :53:49.to relieve pressure on the police? Can he also confirm that the

:53:49. > :53:53.additional operational cost, which are significant, that police are

:53:54. > :53:57.facing, will be funded from the trez reserve and not place

:53:57. > :54:01.additional pressure on already stretched budgets? Can he also

:54:01. > :54:05.confirm that the increased presence on our streets which he said would

:54:05. > :54:09.remain in place until the weekend, will remain in place beyond the

:54:09. > :54:13.weekend until the police can be confident that the trouble will not

:54:13. > :54:16.recur? Mr Speaker, the events of the last few days have been a stark

:54:16. > :54:21.reminder to us all that police on our streets make our communities

:54:21. > :54:25.safer and make the public feel safer. Given the absolute priority

:54:25. > :54:28.the public attach to a visible and active police presence, does the

:54:28. > :54:34.Prime Minister understand why they will think it is not right that he

:54:34. > :54:38.goes ahead with the cuts to police numbers? Will he now think again

:54:38. > :54:43.about this issue? Secondly on criminal gist, the public are clear,

:54:43. > :54:47.they want to see swift, effective and tough a to send a message about

:54:47. > :54:51.the penalties and punishment from follow from the violence we've seen.

:54:51. > :54:54.We must see swift progress from charge to trial in these cases. Can

:54:54. > :54:57.the Prime Minister confirm there's a capacity within the courts and

:54:57. > :55:03.among our prosecutors to deal with cases swiftly not just for first

:55:03. > :55:07.appearance but throughout the trial process, including when people get

:55:07. > :55:11.to trial. It is right the Crown Prosecution Service is taking into

:55:11. > :55:15.account the aggravating circumstances within which is

:55:15. > :55:18.horrendous criminal acts took place. Does the Prime Minister agree that

:55:18. > :55:21.magistrates and judges need to have those circumstances at the front of

:55:21. > :55:25.their mind so that those found guilty of this disgraceful

:55:25. > :55:29.behaviour receive the tough sentences they deserve and the

:55:29. > :55:33.public expect? As the Prime Minister said, we have also been

:55:34. > :55:40.reminded about the importance of CCTV in catching those responsible.

:55:40. > :55:44.So will he undertake to look again at his proposals on CCTV, has been

:55:44. > :55:47.absolutely sure they in no way hinder bringing criminals to

:55:47. > :55:52.justice? Third, we need all of our cities back on our feet and

:55:52. > :55:55.operating as normal. That work began, and I pay tribute to the

:55:55. > :56:00.heroism of the thousands of volunteers who reclaimed our

:56:00. > :56:03.streets and showed the true spirit of our cities and our country. I

:56:03. > :56:06.welcome what the Prime Minister said and the elements of help he

:56:06. > :56:09.announced. Can he reassure us that the help that's provide Liberal

:56:09. > :56:13.Democrat meet the need and there won't be an arbitrary cap on the

:56:13. > :56:17.amount that he announced, if it turns out that further resources

:56:17. > :56:22.are required? Can he assure us these funds will flow straight away

:56:22. > :56:27.so that people can rebuild their lives and communities? Fourth, on

:56:27. > :56:32.the deeper lessons we need to learn, the Prime Minister said in 2006,

:56:32. > :56:36.understanding the background, the reasons, the causes. It doesn't

:56:36. > :56:42.mean excusing crime but it will help to tackle it. Mr Speaker, to

:56:42. > :56:46.seek to explain is not to seek to excuse. Of course these are

:56:46. > :56:49.arguments of individual criminality. But we all have a duty to ask

:56:49. > :56:54.ourselves, why are there people who feel they have nothing to lose and

:56:54. > :56:59.everything to gain from wanton vandalism and looting? We cannot

:56:59. > :57:03.afford to do this to let this pass, to calm the situation down only to

:57:03. > :57:08.find ourselves in the same position again in the future. Mr Speaker,

:57:08. > :57:12.these issues cannot be laid ti door of a single cause or a single

:57:12. > :57:17.Government. The causes are complex. Simplistic solutions will not

:57:17. > :57:21.provide the answer. But Mr Speaker, we can only tackle these solutions

:57:21. > :57:24.by hearing from our communities. What the decent people I met on the

:57:24. > :57:29.streets of London and Manchester told me, and will tell the Prime

:57:29. > :57:32.Minister, is they want their voice to be heard. They want us to go out

:57:32. > :57:39.and listen to them in thinking about the solutions that are

:57:39. > :57:43.necessary. And before saying any of us we know all the answers, or have

:57:43. > :57:46.simple solutions, we should all do so. The Prime Minister explain how

:57:46. > :57:50.those in areas affect Liberal Democrat have their voice heard, as

:57:50. > :57:55.the Government seeks to find solutions to the issues we've seen?

:57:55. > :57:57.Will the Prime Minister agree there must be a full independent

:57:57. > :58:03.Commission of Inquiry, swiftly looking at what happened in recent

:58:03. > :58:07.days and the lessons that need to will be learned. Not an inquiry in

:58:07. > :58:10.Whitehall but reaching out and listening to those affected, the

:58:10. > :58:16.decent law abiding majority affected by these terrible events?

:58:16. > :58:19.They deserve and need to be heard. Mr Speaker, we need look at and act

:58:19. > :58:24.on all the issues that matter. The responsibility we need from top to

:58:24. > :58:29.bottom in our society, including parental responsibility. And an end

:58:29. > :58:31.to a take what you can culture which needs to change from the

:58:31. > :58:36.benefits office to the boardroom. The Prime Minister is right, we

:58:36. > :58:41.need a sustained efforts to tackle the gangs in our cities. Something

:58:41. > :58:44.we did know about before the riots. Will the Prime Minister look

:58:44. > :58:47.urgently at the Youth Justice Board report published last June which

:58:47. > :58:50.had a whole series of recommendations about what the

:58:50. > :58:55.Government should be doing to tackle gang culture? And of course,

:58:55. > :58:59.Mr Speaker, as we look at the solutions we need, questions of

:58:59. > :59:04.hope and aspiration are relevant. The provision of opportunities to

:59:04. > :59:10.get on in life which don't involve illegality and wrongdoing. When we

:59:10. > :59:14.talk about responsibility we must not forget ours. Not to the tiny

:59:14. > :59:18.minority who did the violence but the vast majority of law-abiding

:59:18. > :59:20.young people. They are a generation. This is not about any one

:59:20. > :59:25.Government worried and their prospects, and we can't afford to

:59:25. > :59:28.fail them. We can't afford to have the next generation believe they

:59:28. > :59:32.are going to do worse than the last. They should be able to do better.

:59:32. > :59:35.That's the promise of Britain they have a right to expect. Mr Speaker,

:59:35. > :59:39.let me say in conclusion, successful societies are built on

:59:39. > :59:44.an ethic of hard work, compassion, solidarity and looking after each

:59:44. > :59:49.other. Ours must be one society. We all bear a share of responsibility

:59:49. > :59:53.for what happens within it. It is right that we came back to debate

:59:53. > :59:58.these issues. It is right that public order must be paramount. But

:59:58. > :00:02.it is also imperative that even after order and normality are

:00:02. > :00:06.restored we do not ignore the lessons. We can't afford to move on

:00:06. > :00:13.and forget. For all the people who've been in fear this week, for

:00:13. > :00:16.those who've lost loved ones, homes and businesses, we owe a duty to

:00:16. > :00:20.ensure no repeat of what we've seen. That is our responsibility to the

:00:20. > :00:27.victims. It is our responsibility to the country. And we on this side

:00:27. > :00:29.will play our part in making it First of all, can I thank the right

:00:29. > :00:33.honourable gentleman for what he said today and also what he said in

:00:33. > :00:37.recent days and if I can say the way in which he has said it. He

:00:37. > :00:39.made a number of points. First of all, he is right to praise the

:00:39. > :00:42.emergency services and the work they've done. It's particularly

:00:42. > :00:48.remarkable that in spite of the fact that fires have been started

:00:48. > :00:51.in many cities across our country, there have been no casualties from

:00:51. > :00:56.those fires and I think that speaks volumes about the professionalism

:00:56. > :00:59.and brilliance of our firefighters nationwide. He rightly says that

:00:59. > :01:03.it's important that as soon as possible we get our high streets,

:01:03. > :01:06.our cities, our towns back to a real sense of normality. I would

:01:06. > :01:10.say first of all that has to start with this increased police presence

:01:10. > :01:13.so people feel the confidence to go out and to enjoy their towns and

:01:13. > :01:16.cities and I believe that will happen so that our cities become

:01:16. > :01:20.the great and bustling places we want them to be. He asked questions

:01:20. > :01:23.about police, about courts, communities and the deeper lessons.

:01:23. > :01:29.Let me say a word about each. On the police, what I said about the

:01:29. > :01:32.Army, I choose my words carefully, none of us want to see a break away

:01:32. > :01:34.from the great British model of policing where the public are the

:01:34. > :01:38.police and the police are the public. But I do think that

:01:38. > :01:41.governments have a responsibility to try and look ahead at

:01:41. > :01:45.contingencies and potential problems and start asking potential

:01:45. > :01:49.problems and difficulties in advance and that's exactly what

:01:49. > :01:52.COBRA has done, in terms of simply asking if there were tasks for

:01:52. > :01:55.instance, simple tasks that could be done that would free up police

:01:55. > :01:59.for more frontline duties. This is not for today or even for tomorrow,

:01:59. > :02:04.it's just so you have contingency plans in case it became necessary.

:02:04. > :02:09.He asked about operational costs, the Treasury reserve is being used.

:02:09. > :02:14.He asked about policing numbers beyond the weekend. Deployment must

:02:14. > :02:16.be an issue and a matter for police chiefs. They will want to assess

:02:17. > :02:20.the intelligence and the situation before making those decisions, but

:02:20. > :02:24.as far as the Government is concerned they should feel free to

:02:24. > :02:27.deploy as many police as they need for as long as they need. What

:02:27. > :02:31.matters most of all, more than anything else, is restoring order

:02:31. > :02:35.on our streets. He raised the issue of police budgets and I am sure

:02:35. > :02:39.this will be debated. Let me make a couple of points. What we are

:02:39. > :02:41.saying over the next four years, we are looking for cash reductions in

:02:42. > :02:46.policing budgets, once you take into account the fact there is a

:02:46. > :02:51.preset that helps fund the police of 6% reductions over the next four

:02:51. > :02:58.years, I believe that is totally achievable without any reductions

:02:58. > :03:03.in visible policing and - a growing number of police chiefs are making

:03:03. > :03:07.that point. Let me make two additional points on this. Today we

:03:07. > :03:11.still have 7,000 trained police officers in back office jobs, part

:03:11. > :03:15.of our programme of police reform is about freeing up police for

:03:15. > :03:19.frontline duties and that's why I can make this very clear pledge to

:03:20. > :03:24.the House, at the end of this process of making sure our police

:03:24. > :03:28.budgets are affordable we will still be able to surge as many

:03:28. > :03:31.police on to the streets as we have in recent days in London, in

:03:31. > :03:36.Wolverhampton, in Manchester, and I do think this is important people

:03:37. > :03:39.understand that. He asked about the courts system and whether we are

:03:39. > :03:44.able to surge capacity in our magistrates and Crown courts, yes

:03:44. > :03:47.that is exactly what COBRA has been asking for in recent days. On

:03:47. > :03:51.sentencing I choose my words very carefully, of course it's a matter

:03:51. > :03:56.for courts to sentence, but if you look at what the sentencing council

:03:56. > :04:01.says those people found guilty of violence on our streets should

:04:01. > :04:06.expect to have a custodial sentence. He asked questions about CCTV, we

:04:06. > :04:09.fully support CCTV. We want to regulate it to make sure it is used

:04:09. > :04:13.properly, but it has been immensely valuable as I have seen for myself

:04:13. > :04:18.in police control rooms up and down the country. He asked about in

:04:18. > :04:22.terms of communities whether there would be any cap on the Monday

:04:22. > :04:27.that's available for -- money available. Of course the Act

:04:27. > :04:30.doesn't have any any cap and because we are allowing the 42-day

:04:30. > :04:33.period people will be able to apply and the Government will stand

:04:33. > :04:38.behind the police. When it comes to the deeper lessons, I think he is

:04:38. > :04:42.right, he quoted a speech I made, I said it's explaining doesn't mean

:04:42. > :04:48.excusing and he is right to say the causes are complex. I hope that in

:04:48. > :04:52.the debates we have the causes don't immediately fall into a

:04:52. > :04:55.tiresome discussion about resources, when you have deep moral fail

:04:55. > :05:00.failures you don't hit them with a wall of money. It's right, the key

:05:00. > :05:02.word that he used and that I used is the issue of responsibility.

:05:02. > :05:06.People must be responsible for their actions, we are all

:05:06. > :05:10.responsible for what we do. Finally he asked about the question of how

:05:10. > :05:14.we will listen to communities and what sort of inquiry is necessary.

:05:14. > :05:17.I think in the first instance, and I found this from talking to many

:05:17. > :05:20.members of parliament on both sides of the House of Commons who are

:05:20. > :05:23.deeply in touch with their communities, in touch with their

:05:23. > :05:26.police forces and police chiefs, that one of the first things we can

:05:26. > :05:30.do in this House is properly bring to bear all the information that we

:05:30. > :05:32.are hearing from our communities and I understand that the home

:05:32. > :05:37.affairs select committee is going to hold an inquiry and I think we

:05:37. > :05:40.should try and ask a parliamentary inquiry to do this work first and

:05:40. > :05:43.on - I thank him for the general tone of what he says and I hope we

:05:43. > :05:53.can keep up this cross-party working as we deal with this

:05:53. > :05:53.

:05:53. > :05:58.difficult problem. Why have our police been dispersing

:05:58. > :06:06.these hoods so that they can riot in other vicinities, instead of

:06:06. > :06:14.rounding them up? Does the Prime Minister remember that in 1971 at

:06:14. > :06:20.the peak of the opposition to the Vietnam war in the United States,

:06:20. > :06:27.that the US Government bought 16,000 troops in to Washington in

:06:27. > :06:36.addition to the police, that they rounded up the rioters, they

:06:36. > :06:40.arrested them, and they put 40,000 of them into the DC stadium in one

:06:41. > :06:46.morning. Has he any plans to make the Wembley Stadium available for

:06:47. > :06:50.similar use? I want the Wembley Stadium to be available for great

:06:50. > :06:53.sporting events. It's important that as we get back to a sense of

:06:53. > :06:56.normality those sporting events go ahead. Let me make this point,

:06:56. > :06:59.because the right honourable gentleman does ask an important

:06:59. > :07:02.point, which to be fair to the police and all of us should think

:07:02. > :07:05.carefully before we start criticising police tactics when

:07:05. > :07:09.they are the ones in the frontline. To be fair to the police, they now

:07:09. > :07:13.say that I think to begin with they spent too much time concentrating

:07:13. > :07:17.on the public order aspects and not enough on the criminal kpwreut as -

:07:17. > :07:19.- criminality aspects and it's been the greater police presence on the

:07:19. > :07:22.streets and the greater arresting of people that's helped to bring

:07:22. > :07:26.this situation under control and I think the police themselves, one

:07:26. > :07:29.chief said to me yesterday it's time to tear up some of the manual

:07:29. > :07:32.about public order and restart it. He said we have done this many

:07:32. > :07:37.times before in the police, we will do it again and we will get it

:07:37. > :07:44.right. It's in that spirit that we should praise British policing.

:07:44. > :07:52.Order. A great number of colleagues are trying to catch my eye. I issue

:07:52. > :07:56.my usually exortation for briefity. Can I I welcome what the Prime

:07:56. > :08:01.Minister said about the death of Mark Duggan and indeed about the

:08:01. > :08:05.compensation for victims. 45 people have lost their homes in Tottenham,

:08:05. > :08:12.burnt to the ground, running out of their homes carrying their children

:08:12. > :08:16.in their arms and their cry is where were the police? We can have

:08:16. > :08:19.this debate today, but it is no replacement for hearing from the

:08:20. > :08:27.people themselves. Will the Prime Minister come to Tottenham and

:08:27. > :08:32.speak to those victims and indeed to the independent shopkeepers,

:08:32. > :08:38.hairdressers and jewellers whose businesses are lying in cinders?

:08:38. > :08:44.And will he also commit to a public inquiry that looks at why initial

:08:44. > :08:50.skirmishes were allowed to lead to a situation in which the great

:08:50. > :08:54.Roman Road of Tottenham High Road is in cinders? I will certainly

:08:54. > :08:58.take up the invitation to go to Tottenham and hear for myself. I

:08:58. > :09:01.found in the visit I made to Croydon real anger on the streets

:09:01. > :09:05.about what happened, about how it could be allowed to happen and yes,

:09:05. > :09:08.a lot of questioning of the police tactics and the police presence. As

:09:08. > :09:12.I said in my statement, to be fair to the police I think to begin with

:09:12. > :09:16.because of the situation with Mark Duggan they were hanging back for a

:09:16. > :09:19.very good reason. But they clearly understand and they accept that

:09:19. > :09:24.that went on for too long and the police presence needed to be

:09:24. > :09:27.greater and it needed to be more robust and needed to be protecting

:09:27. > :09:31.people's homes and shops and people's houses. We will now do

:09:31. > :09:37.everything we possibly can to get those people rehoused quickly, to

:09:37. > :09:42.make sure that money is available, and I know my honourable friend has

:09:42. > :09:45.been in touch with almost all the leaders affected. In terms of the

:09:45. > :09:48.inquiry and what inquiries are necessary I think we should start

:09:48. > :09:53.with the home affairs select committee inquiry and let's let

:09:54. > :09:58.them do their work and let's take it from there.

:09:58. > :10:01.Will the Prime Minister encourage media organisations to immediate

:10:01. > :10:04.release -- immediately release all unseen footage of criminal

:10:04. > :10:08.behaviour to assist the police in bringing criminals to justice?

:10:09. > :10:13.will certainly do that. I was impressed in the control room of

:10:13. > :10:15.the West Midlands Police and emergency services yesterday, how

:10:15. > :10:20.amateur photographers have been sending in footage to help the

:10:20. > :10:23.police to arrest those that were guilty. As has been said today,

:10:23. > :10:30.everyone has a responsibility. Media organisations have a

:10:31. > :10:35.responsibility too and I hope they will act on it. Mr Speaker, no one

:10:35. > :10:38.disputes for a second the Prime Minister's determination to meet

:10:38. > :10:42.what he describes as the first duty of Government to keep the streets

:10:42. > :10:48.safe, but will he not understand that his repetition of what amounts

:10:48. > :10:53.to Treasury lines about police numbers and police budgets and also

:10:53. > :10:57.prison numbers sounds very complacent and could I beg of him

:10:57. > :11:03.to recognise a reality that these cuts will lead to fewer police on

:11:03. > :11:08.the streets, but also that he must reverse the softer sentencing plans

:11:08. > :11:12.of his Justice Secretary and stop the ludicrous plan the Justice

:11:12. > :11:18.Secretary has to close prisons when there is now patently an urgent

:11:18. > :11:22.need for more prison places? First of all, I don't accept what he says

:11:23. > :11:26.about police numbers and indeed neither do Chief Constables. Many

:11:26. > :11:29.Chief Constables, if I take the Chief Constable of the Thames

:11:29. > :11:32.Valley, what she said is what I haven't done at all is reduce the

:11:32. > :11:37.number of officers who do the patrol functions, so the officers

:11:38. > :11:41.you see in vehicles on foot, in uniforms on bicycles, we haven't

:11:41. > :11:45.cut those numbers. I think one of the things that was demonstrated by

:11:45. > :11:50.the last three days in the Met, where we have 32,000 officers, is

:11:50. > :11:54.actually they could take the action to surge from 3,000 on the streets,

:11:54. > :12:03.to 16,000 on the streets. I think that's a demonstration of using

:12:03. > :12:08.what you have to maximum effect. While Metropolitan Police Officers

:12:08. > :12:11.showed great courage and determination, will the Prime

:12:11. > :12:16.Minister agree with my concern that there were reports that police

:12:16. > :12:21.officers on several occasions were instructed to stand and observe

:12:21. > :12:25.rioting and looting that was taking place? Would he agree with me that

:12:25. > :12:27.cannot be acceptable behaviour and that if the police perhaps for

:12:27. > :12:31.understandable reasons for concerned because of the

:12:31. > :12:35.controversies after the G20 summit that they might be criticised for

:12:35. > :12:41.overreacting, there is an urgent need for fresh guidelines so that

:12:41. > :12:44.there is noam by tkpwaouity that's it's the police and not looters and

:12:44. > :12:48.rioters that will control our streets?

:12:48. > :12:51.He makes a good point. Obviously we will be looking again at the

:12:51. > :12:54.guidance. Let me be clear, there was no instruction to police

:12:54. > :12:57.officers to stand back but as I have said, and I think police

:12:57. > :13:02.chiefs have been very frank about this, that the balance between what

:13:02. > :13:05.is right for public order, and what is right for stopping criminality,

:13:05. > :13:09.looting and thiefing, that balance wasn't got right to start with.

:13:09. > :13:13.They admit that. They accept that. But they were, to be fair to the

:13:13. > :13:16.police, who do this very difficult job on all our behalf, they were

:13:16. > :13:20.facing a new set of circumstances. Yes, they've had riots before, yes

:13:20. > :13:23.they've had looting before, yes there's been violence and vandalism

:13:23. > :13:25.before but we haven't in our country before had the same thing

:13:25. > :13:28.happening in different places with different people all doing it at

:13:28. > :13:31.the same time. That was a challenge for them, a challenge I believe

:13:31. > :13:36.they're now meeting excellently, but they didn't get everything

:13:36. > :13:39.right to start with and they're the first to admit that. I am grateful

:13:39. > :13:43.to the Prime Minister for his telephone call yesterday, but what

:13:43. > :13:47.happened in Salford on Tuesday night was not about protest, it was

:13:47. > :13:51.about deliberate organised violent criminality. Will the Prime

:13:51. > :13:54.Minister give his full backing to the police to intervene in these

:13:54. > :13:57.circumstances because it was the case that some officers had

:13:57. > :14:01.instructions where they didn't have riot gear, where they weren't

:14:01. > :14:05.trained, that they had to stand by and watch what happened. The effect

:14:05. > :14:09.on public confidence is devastating. Will he ensure that the police have

:14:09. > :14:13.that backing and that confidence, review that guidance so that never

:14:13. > :14:22.again do we see the police fall back in the face of a violent mob

:14:22. > :14:31.as we saw on our streets? She knows this issue well and

:14:31. > :14:35.discussed this with the chief Chief Constable of Greater Manchester.

:14:35. > :14:38.Khaoerl what happen -- khaoerl what happened was unacceptable. I expect

:14:38. > :14:42.the gangs and criminals saw it as an opportunity to reassert

:14:42. > :14:45.themselves. All these lessons must be learned. I know the Greater

:14:45. > :14:49.Manchester police chief chief who I have spoken to, wants to learn

:14:49. > :14:52.those lessons. It's not right ever to cede control of our streets to

:14:52. > :14:56.hooligans which happened briefly in Salford but we have to judge, we

:14:56. > :14:59.have to to wrest with the operational judgment of police

:14:59. > :15:07.chiefs when they're on the streets but the time to learn lessons is

:15:07. > :15:12.Can I commend the Prime Minister for his decision on action on

:15:12. > :15:17.gangs? But I would like to raise another issue with him. He quite

:15:17. > :15:24.rightly raised or told the House about the fact the whole country

:15:24. > :15:29.was moved by the dignified words of the father of Haroon Jahan

:15:29. > :15:32.yesterday. When the father made those comments he did so against

:15:33. > :15:36.the background of ethnic tension and managed to calm the

:15:36. > :15:41.circumstances then. There's a risk that evil-minded people will try to

:15:41. > :15:45.use these conflicts to try to raise further ethnic conflicts in future.

:15:45. > :15:48.Is the Government going to take action with the communities to make

:15:48. > :15:51.sure that is not done? Government will certainly do that.

:15:52. > :15:56.I was in Birmingham yesterday and joined a meeting of community

:15:56. > :16:00.leaders from all religions, all creeds, all races, who came

:16:00. > :16:04.together to make sure that the communities did not respond in an

:16:04. > :16:07.inappropriate way to the dreadful events that had happened. I pay

:16:07. > :16:12.tribute to the Chief Constable of the West Midlands forest, to the

:16:12. > :16:16.leader of Birmingham City Council, and all those people who from their

:16:16. > :16:19.meeting went to their communities and appealed for calm. The scenes

:16:19. > :16:23.we saw on our television screens last night of communities coming

:16:23. > :16:28.together in Birmingham to try to stop violence taking place was a

:16:28. > :16:32.model of how these things should be done. What justification can there

:16:32. > :16:36.be in the West Midlands, bearing in mind what the Prime Minister just

:16:36. > :16:40.said, for very experienced police officers who have served 30 years

:16:40. > :16:46.or more being forced to retire against their wishes because of the

:16:46. > :16:50.cuts? Isn't at this time case, where there is no adequate police

:16:50. > :16:54.presence, as has been the case once or twice unfortunately during the

:16:54. > :16:58.last few days, it is the mob that takes over? I think the honourable

:16:58. > :17:01.gentleman is entirely right. When I was in Wolverhampton yesterday,

:17:01. > :17:04.what I heard was that the number of police officers was something like

:17:04. > :17:09.doubling overnight compared with the previous night. I suspect the

:17:09. > :17:13.same was happening in Walsall, West Brom itch and other parts of the

:17:13. > :17:17.West Midlands. One of the lessons we need to learn is the ability to

:17:17. > :17:21.surge the number of police officers rapidly in our communities when

:17:21. > :17:25.problems arise like this. Let me say again. The police do a

:17:25. > :17:29.difficult and dangerous job on our behalf. They learn from experience.

:17:29. > :17:33.They are hugely experienced at dealing with difficult situations.

:17:33. > :17:38.We must praise them when they get it right. We must say that some of

:17:38. > :17:42.the tactics need to change, but not substitute our judgment for theirs.

:17:42. > :17:47.That wouldn't be a sensible approach. My constituents and I

:17:47. > :17:54.witnessed some shocking events in Enfield on Sunday and Monday. But

:17:54. > :17:59.what was particularly shocking was the age of a number of the cull

:17:59. > :18:03.In the incidents that Would the Prime Minister assure me that he

:18:03. > :18:06.could ask the police authorities to work with the education authorities

:18:06. > :18:12.in an attempt to identify many of the secondary schoolchildren who

:18:12. > :18:15.were out there causing these crimes? I certainly think that's a

:18:15. > :18:19.sensible suggestion, but over and above that we have to recognise

:18:19. > :18:23.that the responsibility for the fact some of these children, and I

:18:23. > :18:28.use the word children individualsedly, rests with their

:18:28. > :18:31.parents. We need to have a sense that parents are going to take more

:18:31. > :18:37.responsibility for their children, teach them the difference between

:18:37. > :18:47.right and wrong and point out the that behaviour is unacceptable.

:18:47. > :18:51.is undeniable that these criminals who looted, stole, rioted, caused

:18:51. > :18:57.intolerable damage to the people who are the victims of this, must

:18:57. > :19:03.be dealt with by the police by the justice system. What I want to ask

:19:03. > :19:12.the Prime Minister is, do we regard these people, however abject their

:19:12. > :19:17.acts, as ir reclaimable to society, at great cost to the police, the

:19:17. > :19:21.justice system and prison system, or will we have positive policies

:19:21. > :19:25.to try, if possible, to reclaim them for society? I agree with the

:19:25. > :19:30.right honourable gentleman, we must never write people off, however bad

:19:30. > :19:33.they are. We must try and build a stronger society where you can turn

:19:33. > :19:37.people's lives around. I think one of the lessons from this is too

:19:37. > :19:40.many people have been left for too long. We need much earlier

:19:40. > :19:44.intervention. This is something where members on all sides of the

:19:44. > :19:48.House have spoken about, so when we see children going wrong we

:19:48. > :19:52.intervene earlier rather than leaving them to fall out of school

:19:52. > :19:57.and lapse into a life of criminality. If these riots had

:19:57. > :20:03.broken out in any city or town in Australia or America, the police

:20:03. > :20:07.would have had at their instant disposal water cannon, plastic

:20:08. > :20:10.bullets and tear gas. Across the UK British people watched on

:20:10. > :20:15.television while police were instructed to stand back, while

:20:15. > :20:19.shops were looted, homes or torched and cars set on fire. Does the

:20:19. > :20:24.Prime Minister really believe that 24 hours' notice of the US of water

:20:24. > :20:28.cannon is enough? Is it not that this is not about police numbers

:20:28. > :20:34.but about police being given the troops to do the job? First of all

:20:34. > :20:38.let me say to the honourable lady that the police do have access to

:20:38. > :20:42.baton rounds and they are able to make that decision to use them. In

:20:42. > :20:44.London they came quite close to making that decision. That must be

:20:44. > :20:48.an operational decision for the police. On the issue of water

:20:48. > :20:52.cannon, the very strong advice from the police is that, because on the

:20:52. > :20:56.whole they weren't dealing with very large crowds but very mobile

:20:56. > :20:58.crowds of people Hoare were intent on criminal behaviour, water cannon

:20:58. > :21:03.wouldn't have been appropriate in these circumstances. That's the

:21:03. > :21:06.police view. The point very made is that we should be ready for every

:21:06. > :21:10.possible contingency in the future, so we should know how we would

:21:10. > :21:15.answer future questions, which is why they are now available at 24

:21:15. > :21:18.hours' notice. I don't agree with her, I think the greatest possible

:21:18. > :21:22.deterrent to the sort of lawlessness we saw, is for people

:21:22. > :21:25.to know if they do that looting or violence they will be pulled out of

:21:25. > :21:28.that crowd, arrested immediately and be in front of a court that

:21:28. > :21:34.night. That is the answer. The Dee that is more police on the streets,

:21:34. > :21:38.so they are able to be more robust in the way that they intervene.

:21:38. > :21:42.I welcome all the steps taken by the Prime Minister since the start

:21:42. > :21:47.of these disorders and join with him and others in condemning the

:21:47. > :21:52.criminality and also praising the police? I, like he, was out on the

:21:52. > :21:57.streets of London yesterday. The key issue was police visibility. Is

:21:57. > :22:01.he saying that, if a police force has to dip into their con tinge sis

:22:01. > :22:06.in order to pay for what has been going on over the last few days

:22:06. > :22:09.that the Government will reimburse all this money? Can I thank the

:22:09. > :22:15.right honourable gentleman for what he said and the work his committee

:22:15. > :22:20.will be doing in the coming weeks? The Treasury is standing ready to

:22:20. > :22:24.assist police forces. The bill for the Metropolitan Police will be

:22:24. > :22:28.large. If they continue to deploy in these numbers lit get larger and

:22:28. > :22:32.the Treasury will stand behind that. Those of news the communities

:22:32. > :22:36.affected give our thanks to the police and the emergency services.

:22:36. > :22:41.But are conscious if the best deterrent is being caught, the

:22:41. > :22:48.police have a minority of their officers trained and able to use

:22:48. > :22:52.riot head gather and equipment. Can he look at that being reverse sod

:22:52. > :22:56.most police officers can act and intervene, and make sure the full

:22:56. > :22:59.force of the law doesn't good on the 50 per community, the serial

:22:59. > :23:04.communities, but adults with children who were going into the

:23:04. > :23:07.shops and nicking stuff, not just the children, to whom they are

:23:07. > :23:12.meant to be sitting an dismal the first point, yes of course

:23:12. > :23:16.there'll be a proper review in terms of what is the right balance

:23:16. > :23:19.between riot police and nor borough police sog we meet these

:23:19. > :23:24.emergencies were in future. In terms of prosecuting the guilty,

:23:24. > :23:31.the police should go after everybody. They've got the CCTV

:23:31. > :23:37.images. People all over the country are ringing up and explaining their

:23:37. > :23:41.neighbour has I qired a new 42 inch Palace ma screen. I would ask more

:23:41. > :23:44.people to do that. The people of Liverpool are united in their

:23:44. > :23:49.absolute condemnation of the criminal acts that wreaked so much

:23:49. > :23:52.havoc and caused so much fear in parts of Liverpool over the last

:23:52. > :23:56.few days. But what specific arrangements has the Prime Minister

:23:56. > :24:02.made to enable to city and indeed others who have suffered similarly

:24:02. > :24:05.to be able to be assisted in a swift recovery? I pay tribute to

:24:05. > :24:09.the honourable lady for speaking on behalf of Liverpool, which too

:24:09. > :24:13.suffered in terms of this violent disorder. Liverpool will be able to

:24:14. > :24:18.apply not only through the Bellwin scheme but through this new special

:24:18. > :24:23.scheme which doesn't have a threshold you need to cross to

:24:23. > :24:27.claim payments. The riot damages Act is effectively unlimited in the

:24:27. > :24:30.claims you can make. The Home Office will stand behind police

:24:30. > :24:35.forces. There'll be written statements in the House today so

:24:35. > :24:38.she can see details and share them with her council leader. I know

:24:38. > :24:42.Prime Minister will agree that we in Britain still have the best

:24:42. > :24:47.police force in the world. However, will he agree with he that's time

:24:47. > :24:52.that the police were refocused back to being crime fighters instead of

:24:52. > :24:57.social workers? I think the police have the clearest possible message,

:24:57. > :25:01.that we want them to be a police force, we want them to be focused

:25:01. > :25:05.on crime. We don't want them fighting paper behind their desk.

:25:05. > :25:08.They have had a clear message from the whole country this week that

:25:08. > :25:13.people want visible policing and robust policing too. The Prime

:25:14. > :25:20.Minister will be as pleased as I am there's been no rioting or looting

:25:20. > :25:23.in South Shields. He has rightly praised the independence, the

:25:23. > :25:27.professionalism of the Chief Constables why. Therefore does he

:25:27. > :25:30.wants the get rid of them all and make them stand for election?

:25:30. > :25:34.are not proposing to make Chief Constables stand for election. What

:25:34. > :25:39.we are proposing is to have police commissioners stand for election,

:25:39. > :25:44.replacing police authorities. The point I would make is this, that in

:25:45. > :25:49.recent days, in recent days I think the argument that yes you have out

:25:49. > :25:52.police Chief Constables, yes they have to be responsible for their

:25:52. > :25:57.judgments, but it is important they are accountable politically.

:25:57. > :26:04.There's a discussion that can take place between politicians and

:26:04. > :26:07.police chiefs is a good one. Ealing town centre was badly smashed up on

:26:07. > :26:16.Monday night. A man is critically ill in hospital, having been

:26:16. > :26:20.attacked by a yob when he tried to put out a fire in a litter bin.

:26:20. > :26:23.Morale was slightly lifted when the Prime Minister said that those big

:26:23. > :26:27.enough to take part in the protests are big enough to take the

:26:27. > :26:32.consequence. Can he ashaur that those found guilty will feel the

:26:32. > :26:37.full force of the law, including prison sentences? Yes, can I give

:26:37. > :26:41.her that assurance. I want to thank her for the briefing she gave me of

:26:41. > :26:45.what had been happening in Ealing on Monday night. The sentences must

:26:45. > :26:49.be a matter for the courts but the sentencing guidelines council is

:26:49. > :26:55.clear that people taking part in violent disorder should expect to

:26:55. > :26:59.go to prison. Can I invite the Prime Minister to join me and the

:26:59. > :27:03.people of Walthamstow not only in putting on the record our gratitude

:27:03. > :27:07.to the police who work sod hard to restore calm to our streets, but

:27:07. > :27:11.the outreach and community workers Hoare have been out every night

:27:11. > :27:15.talking too people to reduce the tension and restore order on our

:27:15. > :27:20.streets, in partnership with the police? Can I invite him to meet

:27:20. > :27:25.with those people to understand it is not tiresome and we must learn

:27:25. > :27:30.from their experience in restoring order every day in our communities

:27:30. > :27:33.across the country? I will certainly will happy to meet with

:27:33. > :27:38.the honourable lady. The point she makes that reclaiming the streets

:27:38. > :27:40.is not just an issue for the police but for everybody I think is

:27:40. > :27:44.absolutely right. We've seen fantastic examples of that across

:27:44. > :27:48.our country. The point I was trying to make about resources, of course

:27:48. > :27:54.resources will be debated in the debate that follows later, but I

:27:54. > :27:57.hope also we can have a debate about some of the culture, the

:27:57. > :28:04.upbringing, the parenting and the deeper point that lie behind these

:28:04. > :28:10.problems. Mr Speaker, frontline officers were telling me last night

:28:10. > :28:13.they've been afraid to use a measure of physical force because

:28:13. > :28:17.of concerns about criticisms by members of Parliament, which

:28:17. > :28:22.they've seen before. When the Prime Minister said we'll be robust and

:28:22. > :28:28.too whatever it takes, can he assure us that members of the House

:28:28. > :28:32.will support the police if they have to strike be batons or kettle

:28:32. > :28:36.them in? Force has to be met with greater force. I know the

:28:36. > :28:39.honourable gentleman serves as a Special Constable himself. People

:28:39. > :28:43.do want to have robust policing. Of course the police have to be

:28:43. > :28:47.sensitive to things that have happened in the past. Sometimes the

:28:47. > :28:52.pendulum can swing too far one way and too far the other. I'm sure

:28:52. > :28:57.message is loud and clear, that when there is this sort of violent

:28:57. > :29:02.criminal behaviour, people want a robust support. The Prime Minister

:29:02. > :29:06.has talked about the role played by gangs and technology the disorder

:29:06. > :29:10.that has taken place over the last week. Does he share my concern

:29:10. > :29:15.about the popularity and accessibility of internet footage

:29:15. > :29:20.glorifying gangs and knives? And what will he do to ensure that

:29:20. > :29:24.these despicable videos are taken down? I think honourable lady

:29:24. > :29:27.speaks powerfully for Lewisham, her constituency, and on this issue,

:29:27. > :29:31.where frankly everyone has responsibility, not just members of

:29:31. > :29:35.Parliament, police, parents but media companies and social media

:29:35. > :29:38.companies, who are displaying these images. All of them should think

:29:38. > :29:43.about their responsibilities and taking down those images. That's

:29:43. > :29:53.why the Home Secretary is going to have meetings to see what more can

:29:53. > :30:05.

:30:05. > :30:07.be done. Can he reassure me and my

:30:07. > :30:11.constituents that we are not just going to see a temporary change in

:30:11. > :30:14.police tactics and visibility but a permanent one?

:30:14. > :30:20.I thank the honourable gentleman for what he did to introduce me to

:30:20. > :30:24.some of the shopkeepers and affected home owners in his

:30:24. > :30:28.constituency, some of whom have been made homeless. One of the

:30:28. > :30:32.things that's been demonstrated is the importance of surging police

:30:32. > :30:38.numbers quickly. There are 32,000 officers in the Met and having just

:30:38. > :30:40.3,000 on the streets on Monday, - on Sunday, 6,000 on Monday, wasn't

:30:40. > :30:44.enough, that's why action was taken to increase it and I am sure

:30:44. > :30:48.lessons will be learned in that regard.

:30:48. > :30:51.We are leaving the House of Commons now, if you want to continue

:30:51. > :30:56.watching the debate and question and answer session you can do so by

:30:56. > :30:59.switching to the BBC News channel or the BBC parliament channel. You

:30:59. > :31:03.are watching a special edition of the Daily Politics here on BBC2 as

:31:03. > :31:07.parliament has been recalled for an emergency session following the

:31:07. > :31:10.riots in London and other English cities over the past few days. In

:31:10. > :31:16.his statement to the Commons and the nation the Prime Minister had a

:31:16. > :31:20.message for those who have been harmed by the riots, we are on your

:31:21. > :31:24.side, he told the country, and for those who took part in the riots, I

:31:24. > :31:28.paraphrase, he used a version of what Mr Reagan once said about

:31:28. > :31:32.terrorists, you can run but you cannot hide. The Prime Minister

:31:32. > :31:36.admitted that the police got the balance wrong at the start of these

:31:36. > :31:40.riots, they should have gone in harderment he -- harder. He says

:31:40. > :31:43.they admit that themselves but they're now on top of matters. The

:31:43. > :31:47.leader of the opposition, Ed Miliband, responded with a number

:31:47. > :31:51.of questions. It was a pretty bipartisan House that met today,

:31:51. > :31:59.there wasn't a lot of party political points scoring. The only

:31:59. > :32:03.sense of disagreement between both sides was when the Prime Minister

:32:03. > :32:07.argued that you can cut police budgets but still keep the number

:32:07. > :32:12.of police required on the streets without harming that. The leader of

:32:12. > :32:16.the opposition said he wanted an inquiry into what had happened but

:32:16. > :32:22.an inquiry that involved not listening to experts in Whitehall

:32:22. > :32:26.but listened to those who had been victims and sufferers of violence

:32:26. > :32:31.over the past few days. With me Conservative deputy chairman

:32:31. > :32:34.Michael Fallon and Sayeeda Warsi had to leave us to listen to an

:32:34. > :32:38.equivalent statement in the House of Lords. And we still have the

:32:38. > :32:41.former Labour Home Secretary Charles Clarke and the BBC's

:32:41. > :32:44.political editor Nick Robinson. Give me an overview of what you

:32:44. > :32:48.have seen. I was struck, as you have said, by the tone really. I

:32:48. > :32:52.expected it, I thought the House would want to send a unified

:32:52. > :32:56.statement, but we have listened to a lot of contributions and I

:32:56. > :33:02.thought by now someone might have raised a slightly discordant note,

:33:02. > :33:05.they've not. What's striking is a shift in the mood about police

:33:05. > :33:08.tactics and a shift in the mood about the desire for tougher

:33:08. > :33:13.measures, so you have had criticisms from a former Home

:33:13. > :33:16.Secretary, Jack Straw, echoing those made by by Charles Clarke

:33:16. > :33:19.here and really you are hearing voices on Labour benches and

:33:19. > :33:22.Conservative Party benches and even from Simon Hughes on the Liberal

:33:22. > :33:26.Democrats benches which is surprising, essentially calling for

:33:26. > :33:30.the police to act tougher, for the courts to sentence for longer, and

:33:30. > :33:34.then that debate about police resources as well. After a moment

:33:34. > :33:44.in which both frontbenches, Conservative and Labour, appeared

:33:44. > :33:44.

:33:45. > :33:50.to take a more civil Lib tearian line, I think we have seen quite an

:33:50. > :33:55.important shift. I wonder what the significance of this shift, we have

:33:55. > :33:59.the Labour MP for Tottenham, David Lammey, bemoaning the fact the

:33:59. > :34:02.police weren't there. We have had shopkeepers of all races and

:34:02. > :34:06.colours, small shopkeepers who have built their lives from nothing,

:34:06. > :34:09.many of them first, second, third generation immigrants saying where

:34:09. > :34:13.were the police? There's no law and order in this country. I remember

:34:13. > :34:17.covering the Brixton riots in the early 80s when the demand there was

:34:17. > :34:21.the police had been too tough, police had no relations with the

:34:22. > :34:25.community. This is a shift and it may, to put it in rather vulgar

:34:25. > :34:29.language of politics, has this country shifted several notches to

:34:29. > :34:34.the right on these matters? This is very interesting. I was a

:34:34. > :34:37.councillor in Hackney in 19... Where that all happened at that

:34:37. > :34:41.time and the issue was about the police being heavy-handed. There

:34:41. > :34:45.was a shift towards community policing, I think a positive shift.

:34:45. > :34:49.And over the last five years I would say on the civil liberties

:34:49. > :34:53.issues, even on the Conservative benches, even David Cameron,

:34:53. > :34:59.certainly David Davis were extremely Lib tearian against some

:34:59. > :35:02.of the things we were trying to do. Opposing what we were doing. I

:35:02. > :35:05.thought the tone of what the Prime Minister said was extremely

:35:05. > :35:09.interesting and significant and I would say positive, in shifting

:35:09. > :35:12.back towards giving the police the support they need to be able to

:35:12. > :35:16.police properly. I think the police's morale has been seriously

:35:16. > :35:20.weakened by all the issues around the subjects like kettling, around

:35:21. > :35:24.the issues around Mr Tomlinson. the G20. The demonstration. Even

:35:24. > :35:27.around some of the issues around Jean Charles de Menezes and the

:35:27. > :35:31.issues around that. So, they've become very concerned about how to

:35:31. > :35:34.act, where to act. There's been a widespread civil liberties lobby,

:35:34. > :35:38.some parts of the Labour Party, large parts of the Conservative

:35:38. > :35:44.Party, some parts of the media, and I thought the tone as you rightly

:35:44. > :35:47.said and Nick also said, of this statement today signalled a change

:35:47. > :35:51.in tone which is significant and important and I would say positive.

:35:51. > :35:56.Are we seeing a move as a result of what has happened with all segments

:35:56. > :36:00.of society calling for a tougher police response? The police getting

:36:01. > :36:04.on the neck a few times there in parliament for not being there when

:36:04. > :36:08.they were needed, other MPs saying they weren't there in Salford. Are

:36:08. > :36:11.we seeing a shift in public attitude? I think we are. Also the

:36:11. > :36:15.police have been honest about this. Those Chief Constables where they

:36:15. > :36:18.did have an operational manual where if you didn't have the right

:36:18. > :36:22.kit you were to stand back and observe and hope to catch them

:36:22. > :36:27.later on CCTV, they've now admitted, as the Prime Minister said, they

:36:27. > :36:31.got that balance between public order and criminality wrong.

:36:31. > :36:36.the Conservatives get it wrong as well? I don't think so. Will we

:36:36. > :36:40.hear more about hug a hoody? What you are getting now under police

:36:40. > :36:43.reforms is elected police Commissioners and I don't think now

:36:43. > :36:47.you are going to find Chief Constables saying it's sufficient

:36:47. > :36:50.to observe. You are going to get local members of parliament and

:36:50. > :36:54.councillors and so on saying directly to their police

:36:54. > :36:57.commissioner why aren't they being more robust, it won't take the

:36:57. > :37:02.Prime Minister coming back from holiday. We already have an elected

:37:03. > :37:09.police commissioner, that's Boris Johnson, what he has done is to get

:37:09. > :37:16.rid of one commissioner, undermined the morale of the senior leadership

:37:16. > :37:19.of the force. Did Boris Johnson get rid of Paul Stevenson? He certainly

:37:19. > :37:25.withdrew support directly and publicly, including on the Today

:37:25. > :37:28.programme and without that support from the chairman - my point if I

:37:28. > :37:32.can finish is that at the end of the day you need police who have

:37:32. > :37:37.confidence and morale, not always being second-guessed on everything

:37:37. > :37:42.they do in relation to civil liberties and elected police

:37:42. > :37:46.commissioners will undermine the police directly. You also need 9

:37:46. > :37:50.public public to have -- the public toffs confidence in the police --

:37:50. > :37:52.public to have confidence in the police. They felt the police got

:37:52. > :37:55.that balance wrong. The Prime Minister was honest about that.

:37:55. > :38:01.Chief Constables have been frank about that. And that I hope will

:38:01. > :38:04.now change. But the Government did not come to power saying it would

:38:04. > :38:09.do any of this. This Government came to power, particularly the

:38:09. > :38:13.Conservative side of it, questioning the need for CCTV to be

:38:13. > :38:18.as extensive as it is, a hug a hoody speech where we must

:38:18. > :38:22.understand where these people come from, rather than condemn them and

:38:22. > :38:25.other civil liberty issues, which were top of Mr Cameron's agenda.

:38:26. > :38:28.Has that now changed. Let me take that head on. First of all the

:38:28. > :38:31.Government came to power saying we needed to free up the police to

:38:31. > :38:35.deal with this sort of stuff on the streets, that was the whole point

:38:35. > :38:39.of our police reforms to cut out the tasks being done in the back

:38:39. > :38:43.office, to make sure more people were freed up for visible frontline

:38:43. > :38:47.policing, to introduce the reforms which frankly they shied away from,

:38:47. > :38:51.we don't want to be too political today, but they shied away from in

:38:51. > :38:54.13 years, to free up officers to be deployed properly on the stroets

:38:54. > :39:00.and to introduce -- streets and to introduce much tougher sentencing

:39:00. > :39:03.powers which we are now doing. interesting, Nick, that the Prime

:39:03. > :39:06.Minister quoted the Acting head of the Metropolitan Police saying he

:39:06. > :39:09.would rather be the last man on the streets sort of thing before the

:39:09. > :39:11.Army could be brought in. I take that, I am interested to hear your

:39:11. > :39:15.view, that there's been a discussion about bringing in the

:39:15. > :39:18.Army and the Prime Minister is not ruling it out. It's clear he didn't

:39:18. > :39:21.rule it out. He seemed to say that they would play a limited role if

:39:21. > :39:25.they played any role, sort of guarding a particular building,

:39:25. > :39:28.allowing police to be on the frontline. I think policemen are

:39:28. > :39:32.nervous, politicians are nervous about the symbolism of having the

:39:32. > :39:36.Army take to the streets. I think I have my history right in saying the

:39:36. > :39:43.last time they took to the streets in the capital was 100 years ago,

:39:43. > :39:51.in order to deal with public order. Clearly, there... The Army was

:39:51. > :39:54.brought in to Heathrow. Not parts of London. 19 11-12 when there was

:39:55. > :40:04.industrial unrest at that time. There was unrest on - it's said

:40:04. > :40:07.that gentlemen left their clubs carrying pistols. I thought it was

:40:07. > :40:11.interesting today when both sides mentioned the issue of the use of

:40:11. > :40:14.the Army, there wasn't a great hysterical reaction. It may be

:40:14. > :40:20.there are some tasks they can do. That's a matter for the police and

:40:20. > :40:23.Government to decide. As you - there was a real surprise in the

:40:23. > :40:29.tone that people didn't raise these, but police cuts is clearly one

:40:29. > :40:34.issue. The Prime Minister also interestingly mentioned Bill

:40:34. > :40:38.Bratten who was chief of police in New York when Guilani became mayor

:40:38. > :40:42.of New York and between them they fell out quite quickly, between

:40:42. > :40:49.them introduced the zero tolerance approach to policing, which in New

:40:49. > :40:54.York has reduced crime to the lowest levels since records began.

:40:54. > :40:58.Is it your sense that the Prime Minister would like to consider Mr

:40:58. > :41:01.Bill Bratten becoming chief of the police? I doubt he wants him to be

:41:01. > :41:05.the chief, I think he does want to see the possibility of people

:41:05. > :41:08.brought from overseas to either advise or be assistant

:41:08. > :41:12.Commissioners in a way that's currently discouraged by police

:41:12. > :41:15.structures. Remember, that we heard this from the Prime Minister after

:41:15. > :41:19.the resignation of Paul Stevenson as head of the Met, he made it

:41:19. > :41:22.clear then he wanted to see a shake-up in the assumption that

:41:22. > :41:25.chief police officers had to start on the streets and work their way

:41:25. > :41:28.up gradually, that he wanted people recrueltied from outside. --

:41:28. > :41:31.recruited from outside. There's no doubt that people around the Prime

:41:31. > :41:34.Minister and the Prime Minister himself are pretty scathing about

:41:34. > :41:38.the quality of some of the Chief Constables and want to bring other

:41:38. > :41:42.people in. When I was Home Secretary I met Bill and talked to

:41:42. > :41:45.him, he is an interesting and inspirational police leader and

:41:45. > :41:47.would have a lot to recommend it. It was interesting the Prime

:41:47. > :41:51.Minister referred to that specifically in the context of gang

:41:51. > :41:55.crime and that was the one bit of news which emerged from what the

:41:55. > :41:59.Prime Minister said, of a focus on gang crime. He effectively declared

:41:59. > :42:03.war on the gangs. And he should and the fact is that the problem about

:42:03. > :42:06.gang crime is fighting gangs, it's almost entirely about intelligence

:42:06. > :42:08.and establishing intelligence about what the networks are, which

:42:08. > :42:12.immediately takes you to the civil liberties issues we were talking

:42:12. > :42:17.about. Interestingly, he raised the possibility of going to internet

:42:17. > :42:20.firms and saying social media should be stopped, blocked Facebook,

:42:20. > :42:27.Twitter, BlackBerry messages stopped during this sort of unrest

:42:28. > :42:33.which would be... A good way of reducing intelligence. He drew

:42:33. > :42:38.attention to Strathclyde. Charles will confirm there's no...

:42:38. > :42:42.really think Glasgow is a safe city, when were you last there. A few

:42:42. > :42:44.months ago. There's no legal bar on somebody coming in from abroad. We

:42:44. > :42:49.sent senior police officers to other police forces around the

:42:49. > :42:51.world and I think this is one of the kind of reforms we need to

:42:52. > :42:56.reinvigorate the leadership of some of our police forces. Let us bring

:42:56. > :43:01.us back to the social conditions from which a lot of these rioters

:43:01. > :43:04.emerge. We have had reports about a school assistant and a grammar

:43:05. > :43:13.schoolgirl and the rest of it, but it's pretty clear when you look

:43:13. > :43:22.it's a consequence of a biindication of our society, that

:43:22. > :43:26.the old working class - a chunk of the old working class slipped into

:43:26. > :43:31.an underclass which is different from a poor working class. Is our

:43:31. > :43:35.political system - are our politicians across this? Do they

:43:35. > :43:39.understand what's really going on? Let me ask you this, Tottenham at

:43:39. > :43:46.the height of the boom when there were jobs aplenty, the unphreuplt

:43:46. > :43:52.rate -- unemployment rate was 19%. Today, it's 20. I don't think

:43:52. > :43:55.anybody could argue 1% has the explanation from peace to war.

:43:55. > :43:57.agree completely. I would say the learning process began actually

:43:57. > :44:03.when you were talking about earlier, when you were reporting these

:44:03. > :44:08.matters 30 years ago. I think that was a total shock, the Brixton

:44:08. > :44:10.riots, and so on, was a total shock to the system. I think all

:44:10. > :44:13.politicians actually, Michael Heseltine did a great deal as

:44:13. > :44:17.Conservative politician at that time and I would say the Labour

:44:17. > :44:21.Government really tried to focus on these problems. But obviously we

:44:21. > :44:26.have not succeeded in certain respects, in particular we haven't

:44:26. > :44:29.succeeded at reaching those very, very small sections of the

:44:30. > :44:33.population who feel completely excluded from what's going on and

:44:33. > :44:37.what's important is to develop a society within which everybody

:44:37. > :44:41.feels they have a stake in society and what we have seen in the

:44:41. > :44:44.streets the last few days indicates we have failed. I can list a set of

:44:44. > :44:48.programmes Labour put forward which were attempted to try and do that I

:44:48. > :44:52.can also indicate certain failures where we didn't do it. What I think

:44:52. > :44:55.needs to happen now for this Government is to say what's this

:44:55. > :44:58.Government's analysis of your exact question, and what are the measures

:44:58. > :45:02.we are ready to go forward with or not? The controversies about things

:45:02. > :45:06.like education and maintenance allowances and so on is that we see

:45:06. > :45:13.those as important issues of trying to provide as spiration for those

:45:13. > :45:18.people which have been cut and this Would seem to be that the old

:45:18. > :45:24.working class had a lack of money and a lack of opportunity. If you

:45:24. > :45:31.gave them that they got on. This is a subset of society which seems to

:45:31. > :45:36.be beyond normal political policy, and beyond the ken, to use a good

:45:36. > :45:42.Scottish word, of the understanding of politicians. Have any three of

:45:42. > :45:45.you seen a BBC programme called The Scheme? I know of it. It is a BBC

:45:45. > :45:49.Scotland problem. Scheme in Scotland means council estate. This

:45:49. > :45:54.is set in a particularly difficult council estate. It's been shown on

:45:54. > :45:58.BBC One in England as well. I would love every politician in

:45:58. > :46:01.Westminster to watch this programme and then consider what they talk

:46:01. > :46:06.about, because often what you talk about has no relevance to what

:46:06. > :46:10.these people are going through. remember, Andrew, when you say,

:46:10. > :46:14.that and I don't mean this cynically, but as an observation of

:46:14. > :46:20.fact, those people tend not to vote, so politicians tend not to spend a

:46:20. > :46:26.lot of time trying to persuade them to vote for their party. As much as

:46:26. > :46:30.they do vote it is in areas of safe seats for the Labour Party, and

:46:30. > :46:35.there is not much focus on the two frontbenches which focuses on that

:46:35. > :46:39.group. Because the lives of those people have now affected the lives

:46:39. > :46:42.of everybody else, there may now be a demand from the population as a

:46:42. > :46:48.whole to sort the problem, where before people were quite happy to

:46:48. > :46:52.close their eyes and say, "It doesn't really affect me." The last

:46:52. > :46:55.Labour Government did try, they chucked a lot of money at the

:46:55. > :46:58.problem, but we still inherited this generation of youngsters who

:46:58. > :47:02.have time on their hands. The reason they've got time on their

:47:02. > :47:05.hands is because they are not skilled to get into the labour

:47:05. > :47:08.market. They are completely excluded from it. We do need to

:47:08. > :47:13.think again about the kind of skills they do need and the work

:47:13. > :47:18.ethic they need to get up in the morning and do a job. If you come

:47:18. > :47:21.to this country from Poland, Lithuania or New Zealand, you can

:47:21. > :47:26.get a job in London tonight. They don't have the skills to do that.

:47:26. > :47:32.Why is it that so many of these youngsters are unemployed, and yet

:47:32. > :47:35.under the Labour Government, 2.5 million new jobs created, 80-90% of

:47:35. > :47:39.those went to people outside the country who wanted to work, had the

:47:39. > :47:43.skills, would turn up in the morning, would work hard and want

:47:44. > :47:50.to get on? It is a complex, firstly the benefit system, everybody is

:47:50. > :47:53.right in saying it needs reforming. Secondly illegal migration. Thirdly,

:47:53. > :47:58.a question of the education and skills and the relationship between

:47:58. > :48:03.the world of education and the world of work, which remains

:48:03. > :48:08.extremely flawed, in my view. I do think, Michael, it is not

:48:08. > :48:15.principally the absince of skills that are involved in this rioting,

:48:15. > :48:18.but the commitment to society, commitment to the community, which

:48:18. > :48:24.is where we need to build things together. I'm going back to the

:48:24. > :48:29.debate in a second. Just a last thought. Ed Miliband did call for

:48:29. > :48:34.an inquiry, but it was pretty clear the Prime Minister doesn't want any

:48:34. > :48:39.such inquiry. That isn't what he said. He wants to wait for the Home

:48:39. > :48:43.Affairs Committee, which is about to announce. There are a lot of

:48:44. > :48:47.inquiries at the moment. You need an immediate inquiry into what

:48:47. > :48:52.happened on command and control from last Thursday to this Tuesday,

:48:52. > :48:56.something like that. And what orders were given. What decisions

:48:56. > :48:59.were taken? There'll be an inquiry into the death of Mark Duggan,

:48:59. > :49:02.carried out by the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Then

:49:02. > :49:05.the Home Affairs Committee will carry out its work. The debate

:49:05. > :49:08.about the riots is continuing in the House of Commons. Let's look at

:49:08. > :49:15.more of the exchanges that are taking place in the past few

:49:15. > :49:21.minutes, starting with a question from a Labour MP, Diane Abbott.

:49:21. > :49:28.was on the streets of Hackney at the height of the rioting on Monday

:49:28. > :49:33.night. I know how frightened people are and remain. I believe the most

:49:33. > :49:39.important thing is to regain control of our streets. But on the

:49:39. > :49:43.question of the Army, let me say this to this House. I'm well aware

:49:43. > :49:47.how attract tiv further militarisation of this situation is

:49:47. > :49:52.to some members of this House, even to some of my own constituents. But

:49:52. > :49:56.let me say this, he will be aware that Sir Hugh Orde, who has ordered

:49:56. > :50:00.baton rounds and the use of water cannons in Northern Ireland, is

:50:00. > :50:06.against the use of these things in the current situation. I say to

:50:06. > :50:12.this House, whether it is a popular thing to say or not, the further

:50:12. > :50:19.militarisation of the situation we face will not help, and may bring

:50:19. > :50:24.things to an even worse level. First of all let me agree with what

:50:24. > :50:28.the Ron rabble lady said about the fact this was -- the honourable

:50:28. > :50:31.lady said about the criminality and how frightened people were. I agree

:50:31. > :50:34.with Sir Hugh Orde and others who said now is not the time to take

:50:34. > :50:41.these steps. Government has a responsibility to ask about con

:50:41. > :50:44.tinge sis to work out what next, what if it got worse? Let's take

:50:44. > :50:48.this opportunity to pay tribute to what the armed services do often do

:50:48. > :50:52.in our own country when it comes to floods and other emergencies. They

:50:52. > :50:55.play an incredible role and we should thank them for it.

:50:55. > :51:00.Speaker, would my right honourable friend agree that at a time like

:51:00. > :51:03.this and facing the circumstances that we face, it have a nonsense

:51:03. > :51:07.that magistrates have to refer cases to the Crown Court because

:51:07. > :51:12.their own sentencing powers are inadequate. Will he take immediate

:51:12. > :51:17.steps to give magistrates courts the powers to deal with these cases,

:51:17. > :51:21.so the perm traitors can be where they belong - behind bars? We keep

:51:21. > :51:24.sentencing powers under review. Magistrates courts can sentence up

:51:24. > :51:28.to six months. They've been passing sentences overnight and referring

:51:28. > :51:33.cases to Crown Court. It is vital we make sure that there is enough

:51:33. > :51:38.Crown Court capacity to deal with these cases quickly. Mr Speaker,

:51:38. > :51:43.can I beg the Prime Minister to change his mind about a Commission

:51:43. > :51:47.of Inquiry? This isn't going to go away. We could wish it to go away.

:51:47. > :51:52.This is a complex, changing social phenomenon we've got to understand

:51:52. > :51:58.in order to combat it. If he announced this week a Commission of

:51:58. > :52:03.Inquiry, really at the roots of this, I'm a great supporter of

:52:03. > :52:06.Select Committees, but it is not enough to leave it to a Select

:52:06. > :52:10.Committee inquiry. We need a national inquiry. I think we should

:52:10. > :52:13.have more confidence in our Select Committees in this House to do this

:52:13. > :52:16.work. I think the Home Affairs Select Committee does an excellent

:52:16. > :52:21.job. I don't rule these things out for the future. Let us start with

:52:21. > :52:23.that. Sometimes commissions of inquiry have had to be ordered

:52:23. > :52:28.because committees of this House haven't been able to get to the

:52:28. > :52:31.information or people. I don't sigh why this should be the case in this

:52:32. > :52:37.circumstances. Some cities have suffered hugely this week while

:52:37. > :52:41.others have avoided violence. And have managed to squash any

:52:41. > :52:45.potential trouble before it kicked off. When inquiries are established

:52:45. > :52:49.will the Prime Minister ensure that we learn lessons not only from

:52:49. > :52:53.those areas where violence was kicked off but from cities like

:52:53. > :52:59.Cardiff and Sheffield where there wasn't any trouble? Maybe we can

:52:59. > :53:03.learn lessons from what went right in those areas. She is right. Any

:53:03. > :53:10.inquiry should do that. Prime Minister, may I thank you for

:53:10. > :53:14.visiting Croydon earlier in the week, where you met our decent

:53:14. > :53:18.citizens who had become victims, their businesses burnted down and

:53:18. > :53:24.offices and shops trashed. The people in that Croydon war zone,

:53:25. > :53:30.that is what it was, were making the plea, where was the police? For

:53:30. > :53:36.hour after hour people were free to pillage and loot with no uniformed

:53:36. > :53:39.officer to help. On behalf of the people I met in the last two days,

:53:39. > :53:43.distraught and sad people, the people of Croydon North, the

:53:43. > :53:46.victims, may I plead with the Prime Minister on behalf of my

:53:46. > :53:50.constituents to think again about police numbers? The people of

:53:50. > :53:55.Croydon and people of London want more police in London and not fewer.

:53:55. > :54:01.Fewer would be precisely the wrong policy at precise through wrong

:54:01. > :54:06.time for our society? With the right honourable gentleman the time

:54:06. > :54:10.I spent in Croydon was incredibly powerful. To hear about the anger

:54:10. > :54:14.and frustration that shopkeepers and householders and tenants felt,

:54:15. > :54:18.but the problem was that the police weren't on the streets. The problem

:54:18. > :54:22.wasn't about police budgets in four years' time. The problem was about

:54:22. > :54:27.the availability of the police right now. There are 32,000

:54:27. > :54:30.officers in the Met. We needed to get more on the streets more

:54:30. > :54:33.quickly and more to Croydon. It is about now, not the budgets of the

:54:33. > :54:36.future. That was the Prime Minister. The

:54:36. > :54:41.exchanges are still going on in this special session of Parliament,

:54:41. > :54:46.recalled for the first time in many years back to an August session. We

:54:46. > :54:53.are coming to the end of our coverage here of this Daily

:54:53. > :54:57.Politics special of Parliament being reconvened to discuss the ry

:54:57. > :55:04.ots. Some final thoughts from our panel. Michael Fallon, Boris

:55:04. > :55:08.Johnson once dismissed the idea of a broken society as "piffle". Can

:55:08. > :55:12.there be any doubt in your mind that parts of our society are

:55:12. > :55:16.seriously broken? Absolutely not. I think if the last few days have

:55:16. > :55:19.shown us anything it is how right David Cameron was to address the

:55:19. > :55:23.problems of the broken society and say we need to think of better

:55:23. > :55:27.answers for it. We've inherited a generation of youngsters who have

:55:27. > :55:31.never been in work, don't have the skills to get into work and don't

:55:31. > :55:35.have the appetite to get into jobs. We need to tackle that.

:55:35. > :55:40.Metropolitan Police, as Home Secretary, you once had

:55:40. > :55:45.responsibility for them. They have had a bit of a battering, not just

:55:45. > :55:50.today or recent da days but over several years now. Where do we need

:55:50. > :55:54.to go to restore? We are used to this view of the police in this

:55:54. > :55:57.country were the interest integrated and most admire of any

:55:57. > :56:02.democratic society. It what be hard to argue that now. Where do they

:56:02. > :56:05.need to go? The first and most important thing is to appoint a new

:56:05. > :56:08.Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. For that person to be given

:56:08. > :56:11.support and confidence by the political environment. I mean the

:56:11. > :56:16.Mayor of London, the Government of London, the Government of the

:56:16. > :56:20.country, in carrying through what's needed. Secondly is a set of

:56:20. > :56:24.operational decisions that have to be taken about ensuring that the

:56:24. > :56:29.Met is more effective in certain respects. Some decisions were taken,

:56:29. > :56:33.to establish the borough commanders, neighbourhood policing, which is a

:56:33. > :56:37.big step forward from what it had been. But there still remain a

:56:37. > :56:41.series of reforms that need to take place. Thirdly, this question of

:56:41. > :56:45.gangs is much more serious than people think and require as very

:56:45. > :56:51.focused look by the police in conjunction, as the Prime Minister

:56:51. > :56:56.said, with other said. And yet it took a riot. We have done items on

:56:56. > :57:00.gangs. We've known about gangs. Our major cities are riddled with gangs.

:57:00. > :57:07.I don't it is right that took a riot. People haven't been able to

:57:07. > :57:12.get hold of these issues. Not easy to resolve. The question of the

:57:12. > :57:20.civil liberties environment within which the debate takes place. To

:57:20. > :57:25.the way the attitude of society is a major part of the turning point

:57:25. > :57:28.we may see today. The right would like a much tougher line than even

:57:28. > :57:32.the Prime Minister a outlining and those on the left, particularly on

:57:32. > :57:37.the Labour side, who would like more emphasis on, "It's the cuts,

:57:37. > :57:41.it is society, we are unequal" and the rest of it. We didn't hear from

:57:41. > :57:44.them. We will particularly at the party conferences. Remember, the

:57:45. > :57:48.moment at which our political leaders will have to try and, if

:57:48. > :57:52.you like, inject a political narrative into the story of the

:57:52. > :57:55.next week is in their party conference speeches. So we will see

:57:55. > :57:58.first from Nick Clegg, then Ed Miliband and David Cameron. They

:57:58. > :58:02.will come under enormous pressure from their own parties. David

:58:02. > :58:06.Cameron I believe at his conference will come under vast pressure about

:58:07. > :58:10.police numbers and resourcing, prison reforms and numbers, and to

:58:10. > :58:15.be tougher. The Ed Miliband will come under pressure to talk more

:58:15. > :58:18.ooct the cuts and the impact think have on communities. So how they

:58:19. > :58:23.find a way through will define what it means. That's all to come I'm

:58:23. > :58:27.afraid. The very to stop. That's it for today. We've run out of time.

:58:27. > :58:32.Thank you for joining us on this Daily Politics special here on BBC

:58:32. > :58:35.Two. Thanks to my guests, Charles Clarke, Michael Fallon, Sayeeda

:58:35. > :58:39.Warsi and Nick Robinson our political editor. We thank you for

:58:39. > :58:42.being with us on this August day. If you want to continue watching

:58:42. > :58:47.proceedings in the House of Commons switch over now to the BBC News