:00:21. > :00:31.You can tell a summer holiday is over, the sun is out. Parliament is
:00:31. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:44.Yes, welcome to this new season of the Daily Politics, which will take
:00:44. > :00:48.us through the party conferences and all the way up to Christmas.
:00:48. > :00:51.But you wonder if we should ever have been away! We've had riots in
:00:51. > :00:54.major English cities. Billions of pounds of damage caused. The
:00:54. > :01:04.prisons filling up with those arrested and convicted. The House
:01:04. > :01:08.of Commons was recalled and battle joined over how to react.
:01:08. > :01:12.causes are complex, simplistic solutions won't provide the answer.
:01:12. > :01:15.We've had revolution in Libya. What seemed stalemate in July looks like
:01:15. > :01:18.victory in September. It's not all over yet. But Gaddafi is beaten and
:01:18. > :01:25.in hiding, to the delight of both rebels and Western political
:01:25. > :01:30.leaders. The Libyan people have taken their
:01:30. > :01:36.country back. A cross Libya, millions are enjoying Eid for the
:01:36. > :01:39.first time free of a vicious dictatorship.
:01:39. > :01:44.Not only that we've had the mother of all phone hacking scandals,
:01:44. > :01:49.turmoil in the financial markets and slowdown in the economy. Which
:01:49. > :01:52.makes for a busy half hour! And with us for the whole programme
:01:52. > :01:54.today we have the Home Office Minister, Nick Herbert, for the
:01:54. > :01:59.Conservatives. Shadow Health Minister, Diane Abbott, for Labour.
:02:00. > :02:04.And the Deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, Simon Hughes.
:02:04. > :02:07.So, first day back at school here at Westminster. But no time for
:02:07. > :02:12.sitting around and comparing tans and holiday snaps. It's straight
:02:12. > :02:17.back into the serious stuff of high-politics and low mud-slinging.
:02:17. > :02:19.Nick Clegg's been out already this morning. He was appearing with some
:02:20. > :02:24.school kids ahead of a speech insisting he'd never allow Free
:02:24. > :02:28.Schools to make a profit. Meanwhile, over in the Commons his
:02:28. > :02:32.backbenchers are grumbling again about the Government's NHS reforms.
:02:32. > :02:34.This is ahead of a big debate tomorrow. A meeting of the Lib Dem
:02:35. > :02:37.Parliamentary Party takes place a little later today which will
:02:38. > :02:42.decide just how many of them are prepared to back their own
:02:42. > :02:46.ministers. For Labour, tales of woe from Gordon Brown's Cabinet just
:02:46. > :02:51.keep on coming. According to the former Chancellor, Alistair Darling,
:02:51. > :02:59.there were bitter fights over economic policy. And of course
:02:59. > :03:04.there is the Prime Minister himself. He took the view I was being too
:03:04. > :03:08.cautious. Every Treasury in the world is cautious. He took the view
:03:08. > :03:12.it would be over in six months. took the view I have been
:03:12. > :03:15.exaggerating and was misled by the advice I received.
:03:15. > :03:19.David Cameron might have spent some of his summer holidays at the
:03:19. > :03:22.Highland Games in Braemar. But he, like the rest of us, is waiting to
:03:22. > :03:32.find out if the Conservative Party in Scotland decides to sever all
:03:32. > :03:34.
:03:34. > :03:39.ties with their past. And if it does, will anybody notice?
:03:39. > :03:44.Diane Abbott, you fought the last election led by a man who ran the
:03:45. > :03:48.Government like a Cavaldi, who tried to destroy his own Chancellor
:03:48. > :03:54.and he thought our economic problems would be all over in six
:03:54. > :03:58.months, did you know any of that? am one of the people who did not
:03:58. > :04:02.nominate him to be leader of the party. It might have been better to
:04:02. > :04:09.have a contested election. I am surprised at people like Alastair
:04:09. > :04:14.Darling, who did nominate him, now launching these attacks.
:04:14. > :04:18.happened on a Thursday night in this very studio. I seemed to
:04:18. > :04:22.remember some anticipation on your part as Mr Brown as the Great
:04:22. > :04:27.Leader? I am one of these optimistic people and I am sure
:04:27. > :04:32.that is why I am on the left in politics. If Gordon Brown was as
:04:32. > :04:35.terrible as all that, why didn't he do something at the time? The
:04:35. > :04:40.problem is with these newspaper serialisations, you make more money
:04:40. > :04:44.out of newspaper then you do selling the book. And to get it see
:04:45. > :04:50.realised you have to have these juicy bits. I will wait to read the
:04:50. > :04:55.book. But, the continuity in this, which is why it is not right to say,
:04:55. > :05:01.it is all history. Is a man at the centre of this, who shared Mr
:05:01. > :05:07.Brown's views on the deficit, as opposed to Mr Darling's is Mr Ed
:05:07. > :05:15.Balls who is the Shadow Chancellor? He is a great man and a grey shadow
:05:15. > :05:20.chancellor. Will he not cut the deficit as Mr Brown did? Not at all.
:05:20. > :05:29.They can be decided by the shadow cabinet as a whole on her by Ed
:05:29. > :05:36.Miliband. Can we just write that down? Simon Hughes, Nick Clegg
:05:36. > :05:39.talking about free schools this morning. Almost trying to be in
:05:39. > :05:42.opposition in Government at the same time. He will be saying they
:05:42. > :05:48.won't be allowed to make a profit, when has Michael Gove said they
:05:48. > :05:52.would be? I'm not sure he has, it was a Tory idea and not our idea
:05:52. > :05:57.and came into the coalition agreement from the Tory side.
:05:57. > :06:01.Clegg said it was in your manifesto? They are slightly
:06:01. > :06:06.different, I won't get into the technicalities but it was a bid
:06:06. > :06:10.from the Tory side of the coalition. We came to an agreement. Then there
:06:10. > :06:13.is a concern they were going to give them a special status and
:06:13. > :06:17.position and there was a risk they would take money from money that
:06:17. > :06:22.would be in the pot for local authority schools. What Nick Clegg
:06:22. > :06:28.was trying to do this morning was a lay some of the concerns of things
:06:28. > :06:32.that wouldn't happen. Is he worried about people like you and about
:06:32. > :06:40.people in the Lib Dem conference coming up. Because in your
:06:40. > :06:44.conference last year, live on the Daily Politics, your conference
:06:44. > :06:50.approved a motion urging people not to take up the free school option.
:06:51. > :06:53.Your party is against it? believe the best way is to have
:06:53. > :06:58.comprehensive education in a Democratic way. So you are against
:06:58. > :07:03.free schools? It has always been tension as to what you give people
:07:03. > :07:08.the freedom to create a school. That is why you can justify
:07:08. > :07:12.denominations schools. Whether that eats into the resources available.
:07:12. > :07:17.My judgment has always been we need to make sure they don't take
:07:17. > :07:23.resources that are available for schools. Are you for against free
:07:23. > :07:27.schools? I prefer local authority schools. So you are against them?
:07:27. > :07:33.I'm not against them... You won't be encouraging any to be formed in
:07:33. > :07:39.your neck of the woods? No, I won't. Nick Herbert, I know it is not your
:07:39. > :07:45.decision because you are an English Tory, but do you agree with the
:07:45. > :07:49.idea the Scottish Conservative Party should just abolish itself?
:07:49. > :07:53.think it is a reasonable debate to kick off. In the end it has to be a
:07:53. > :07:58.decision for because they have -- Scottish Conservative Party.
:07:58. > :08:03.tried to pre-empt that answer. is a perfectly reasonable debate to
:08:03. > :08:08.have. What the Scottish people want, I think it is a real choice and I
:08:08. > :08:13.think that if they are able to be given the choice in terms of the
:08:13. > :08:20.things we stand for, it is a possibility. You are Unionist?
:08:20. > :08:27.a Unionist, but I am happy for this debate to be had. The decision
:08:27. > :08:32.should rest with members... It is a good debate to have, we are having
:08:32. > :08:36.it, it is not your decision, but what is your opinion? My opinion is
:08:36. > :08:40.I am happy and proud to be a member of the Conservative Party which is
:08:40. > :08:44.a Unionist Party. But, equally in Northern Ireland for instance, we
:08:44. > :08:47.ran on a platform in the last election or where we had an
:08:47. > :08:54.association with members of another party. That is something that could
:08:54. > :08:59.be considered. Let's have the debate. Wouldn't it be seen as a
:08:59. > :09:04.cosmetic, rebranding exercise? is a thing we have got to decide.
:09:04. > :09:07.The person advocating this said it would be about a fundamental change.
:09:07. > :09:12.They have to have the debate and let it take place in Scotland and
:09:12. > :09:18.let the members of the party decide. He rebranded yourselves? You used
:09:18. > :09:26.to be the Tories' and then in 1834 U became the Conservatives. But we
:09:27. > :09:33.still call you the Tories? You do, and parties go through periods
:09:33. > :09:42.where they remain themselves but the core values survive of security
:09:42. > :09:46.and individual responsibility. Those will remain. Now there used
:09:46. > :09:49.to be a time we called the 'silly season' between the House of
:09:49. > :09:51.Commons going into recess in mid- July and the start of the Party
:09:51. > :10:01.Conference season in mid-September. Most August months are news-free
:10:01. > :10:02.
:10:02. > :10:05.zones. A barren month punctuated only by shots of fresh-faced
:10:05. > :10:14.teenagers celebrating their A level results and the latest parade of
:10:14. > :10:18.wannabes and D-list celebrities parading into the Big Brother House.
:10:18. > :10:20.But not this year! Here's David Thompson So the summer was blighted
:10:20. > :10:30.by riots across England, Parliament was recalled and no-one was talking
:10:30. > :10:40.
:10:41. > :10:45.This is the most humble they are my life. The ICA the fightback has
:10:45. > :10:50.begun, we will protect you. It might not have been a long hot,
:10:50. > :10:53.summer but it has not been dull. We have had riots, Libya and phone
:10:53. > :10:59.hacking and Parliament has been recalled not once, but technically
:10:59. > :11:03.twice. Testing time for politicians. How have Ed Miliband and David
:11:03. > :11:08.Cameron done? Does this summer give us any political clues about the
:11:08. > :11:14.summer ahead? England's troubles cities have given David Cameron a
:11:14. > :11:18.major challenge. Can he turn crisis into opportunity? David Cameron
:11:18. > :11:22.emerges from this with a chance to relaunch his premiership. We are
:11:22. > :11:27.about to discover whether he can use the riots and accommodation of
:11:27. > :11:31.the lift he will get out of his victory in Libya, will he use that
:11:31. > :11:35.as a chance to really give his Government a new mission this
:11:35. > :11:40.autumn? We will know the answer to that probably by the beginning or
:11:40. > :11:45.the middle of October. Given the correct response to the riot was
:11:45. > :11:52.vital for Ed Miliband, too. But did the phone hacking round give his
:11:52. > :11:56.leadership a makeover? Ed Miliband has had a good summer. He was
:11:56. > :12:01.convincing on the whole Rupert Murdoch scandal. Tying it into what
:12:01. > :12:06.many people regard as the corrosion of public life and on the riots, he
:12:06. > :12:10.didn't fall into the trap of being seen to equate it with the cuts all
:12:11. > :12:16.the great social discord. images which define the summer, but
:12:16. > :12:19.will they fade with time or help shape the party leaders?
:12:19. > :12:24.Miliband responded effectively to the phone hacking crisis and showed
:12:24. > :12:28.he had some steel and his party liked it. But he hasn't formulated
:12:28. > :12:32.a message of a kind which really seems to Connect in any meaningful
:12:32. > :12:36.way with the sort of voters he needs to stand a chance of winning
:12:36. > :12:41.the next election. That is what this autumn will be about for him,
:12:41. > :12:46.he has to put flesh on the bone. The greatest criticism within the
:12:46. > :12:50.Tory party and outside it and that of the David Cameron is he is not
:12:50. > :12:55.strongly right wing, people don't know what he is. He asked to define
:12:55. > :12:59.that this autumn. As normal service resumes in Westminster, the
:12:59. > :13:04.extraordinary events of recent weeks will fall into perspective.
:13:04. > :13:08.But now, this feels like a summer of change.
:13:08. > :13:14.The summer season was blighted by riots, Parliament was recalled and
:13:14. > :13:17.nobody was talking about hugging hoodies any more. On 10th August,
:13:17. > :13:20.David Cameron said, "There are pockets of our society that are not
:13:20. > :13:23.only broken, but frankly sick". The following week he vowed to tackle
:13:23. > :13:26.the "slow-motion moral collapse" affecting parts of the country. By
:13:26. > :13:31.contrast Labour leader, Ed Miliband, talked about a wider "crisis of
:13:31. > :13:35.values". In a speech on the 15th August he made a link between the
:13:35. > :13:40.values of the looters and those of the bankers. "Our whole country is
:13:40. > :13:43.held back by irresponsibility, wherever it is found". Deputy Prime
:13:43. > :13:49.Minister, Nick Clegg, attacked the "smash and grab" culture of those
:13:50. > :13:53.involved in the unrest. Although he did also say that the best response
:13:53. > :14:02.was to give people "opportunities to get ahead so they feel they have
:14:02. > :14:08.a stake in their own future". Diane Abbott, let me come to you
:14:08. > :14:15.first. Now it has died down a bit, we are standing back a bit. Did
:14:15. > :14:19.these riots have anything to do with coalition policy or not?
:14:19. > :14:23.practical terms, no, not least because the coalition policies have
:14:23. > :14:30.yet to feed to those on the ground, particularly the cuts. I never said
:14:30. > :14:33.the cuts caused the riots. But David Cameron and Nick Clegg have
:14:33. > :14:38.agreed an inquiry where they will go into communities and ask them
:14:38. > :14:42.what they think happened. So when Harriet Harman specifically linked
:14:42. > :14:51.the riots to the cuts in the educational maintenance allowance,
:14:51. > :14:53.that wasn't true? It is not a causal link, but there is no doubt
:14:53. > :14:57.cuts in education funding have affected communities and their
:14:57. > :15:02.perception of what opportunities there are for them. Nick Herbert,
:15:02. > :15:06.you are talking about taking �2 billion out of the police budget in
:15:06. > :15:16.the spending round and increasing the budget for international did
:15:16. > :15:16.
:15:16. > :15:21.allotment by �2 billion. How does It is exactly why our policy of
:15:21. > :15:25.free schools is designed to extend educational opportunities. In
:15:25. > :15:30.relation to police funding, we have to deal with the deficit, of a
:15:30. > :15:34.police can make their share of the savings. A report today has been
:15:34. > :15:38.produced by policy exchange, an independent think-tank, pointing
:15:38. > :15:42.out there are thousands of officers in backroom positions who Onuoha
:15:42. > :15:47.near the front line. We can make savings and still do that in a way
:15:48. > :15:52.that protects the visible and available policing. The Policy
:15:52. > :15:57.Exhange, you call it an independent think-tank, it is centre right.
:15:57. > :16:02.is a good report. The Inspectorate of Constabulary have said exactly
:16:02. > :16:06.that the same thing. They said there were 25,000 police officers
:16:06. > :16:10.in back and middle office positions, not on the front line. There is
:16:10. > :16:14.plenty of scope for savings if forces work more efficiently. Have
:16:14. > :16:21.I reject the idea that a cut in funding means there has to be a
:16:21. > :16:23.poorer service for the public. they are Johnson of London -- and
:16:23. > :16:29.Boris Johnson said the riots undermined the case for cutting
:16:29. > :16:34.police budgets, he was wrong? disagree. In London, he is
:16:34. > :16:39.increasing the numbers of officers from the level he inherited. It is
:16:39. > :16:45.not about that in London. He was talking about outside London.
:16:45. > :16:50.Meyers are bound to bid for... is the Mayor of London. He was
:16:50. > :16:55.talking about outside London. is not the time to think about
:16:55. > :16:59.making substantial cuts in police numbers, I am looking at the
:16:59. > :17:03.country as a whole, he said. He was talking about outside London. He
:17:03. > :17:09.said himself he had addressed the situation in London and he was
:17:10. > :17:14.increasing the numbers. Snares are bound to bid for more money. --
:17:14. > :17:20.Meyers. We have a deficit and we have to be -- deal with it. There
:17:20. > :17:23.is plenty of scope for saving. did it take a riot, or several
:17:23. > :17:30.riots, for you to decide you needed to do something about gangs? That
:17:30. > :17:33.is simply not the case. There has been ongoing work. The government's
:17:33. > :17:38.College and a set up by David Cameron in opposition when he
:17:38. > :17:42.talked about social responsibility and some of the social measures we
:17:42. > :17:47.need to take in terms of radical reform in both education, that
:17:48. > :17:51.Michael Gove was talking about last week, extending opportunity and
:17:51. > :17:55.improving discipline and opportunity, and Iain Duncan
:17:55. > :18:00.Smith's agenda of welfare reform, were set in train some time ago.
:18:00. > :18:05.Could they have been embraced under a coalition programme. We are
:18:05. > :18:12.embarked on an agenda that his social reform. Simon Hughes, you
:18:12. > :18:20.warned against knee-jerk policy responses, have you seen any?
:18:20. > :18:24.have seen the courts be tougher than normal. And I think some of
:18:24. > :18:28.those will have sentences which may be reduced on appeal. There should
:18:28. > :18:34.be an addition for taking part in a riot. Were these tough sentences
:18:34. > :18:38.knee-jerk? They were a response... A word a knee-jerk? They weren't a
:18:38. > :18:43.knee-jerk response, but they were a response that was a difficult one
:18:43. > :18:48.to judge. OK. I have seen a debate which I welcome about how we are
:18:48. > :18:53.more effective with our policing. I am very clear and I am a London MP,
:18:53. > :18:58.I don't think you need to see a reduction in police numbers if you
:18:58. > :19:03.see a reduction in budget. Brian Paddick said this morning that if
:19:03. > :19:08.you look, for example, at the extras that senior police officers
:19:08. > :19:13.in the net get, extra accommodation, chauffeur-driven cars, there are
:19:13. > :19:18.lots of things you can take out. I discovered, I didn't know this
:19:18. > :19:22.before, that most police officers in London are not allowed to go out
:19:22. > :19:26.and deal with public order offences because they are not trained to
:19:26. > :19:30.have body armour and helmets. That is ridiculous. All police on the
:19:30. > :19:38.streets ought to be on to deal with all situations. Wood cutting the
:19:38. > :19:43.welfare benefits of a family with a member involved in riots could be a
:19:43. > :19:47.knee-jerk response? I am not in favour of that. I have warned that
:19:47. > :19:52.kicking people out of public sector housing and taking benefits await
:19:52. > :19:56.seems the wrong response. Evicting a family from council property,
:19:56. > :20:00.which Southwark council has, that his knee-jerk? They haven't yet.
:20:00. > :20:05.They have talked about it. They want to do it. I will tell you why
:20:05. > :20:11.it is illogical. If you have two people who go into Argos to make
:20:11. > :20:16.staff and one happens to live in a council property and one is also
:20:16. > :20:20.living in private property, to distinguish between them is invalid.
:20:20. > :20:24.Younger siblings will suffer. On the question of sentencing, I would
:20:24. > :20:28.say this. The public would expect sentencing to be a little higher
:20:28. > :20:36.given the context and the system of appeals will help to deal with them.
:20:36. > :20:39.Will we see more riots? I hope not. I would add on sentencing,
:20:39. > :20:45.exemplary sentences are important and they have been set
:20:45. > :20:48.independently. I visited one of the courts. How can you support
:20:48. > :20:56.exemplary sentences, which is basically banging people up for a
:20:56. > :20:59.longer time than normal, how can you do that and cut prison funding?
:20:59. > :21:04.For the Prime Minister has been clear. There will be enough places
:21:04. > :21:08.provided to ensure the courts can give a prison sentence. There is a
:21:08. > :21:11.difference between cramming people in and giving them the sort of
:21:11. > :21:16.experience that might help to rehabilitate them. I would agree
:21:16. > :21:23.that up he might have space to cram them in. Are you prepared at more
:21:23. > :21:26.prison spaces? We will provide sufficient prison spaces.
:21:26. > :21:30.police could end up arresting 25,000 people and there might be a
:21:30. > :21:35.lot more convictions. You are prepared to add more prison places
:21:35. > :21:39.to accommodate these people? So far there have been over 2000 arrests
:21:39. > :21:43.and half of those have been charged. We can learn the lessons over house
:21:43. > :21:50.with just as was. That has not answered my question. Sufficient
:21:50. > :21:56.places will be available. Does that mean you are prepared to increase
:21:56. > :22:00.the prison population? The Prime Minister answered it, he said
:22:01. > :22:05.enough places will be available. I agree with Diane, it is not just
:22:05. > :22:09.about incarcerating people, it is also about reducing reoffending and
:22:09. > :22:15.breaking the cycle. Where will these extra prison places come
:22:15. > :22:21.from? We have been able to accommodate those that have been
:22:21. > :22:25.incarcerated in present by sentences in response to the riots.
:22:25. > :22:29.It is the government's responsibility to ensure there will
:22:29. > :22:32.be sufficient... Are you confident they are getting the education they
:22:32. > :22:36.would normally get? Are you confident they are getting the
:22:36. > :22:41.support they would normally get? is so important that we have a
:22:41. > :22:45.prison system that does work and works to reduce reoffending. 17% of
:22:45. > :22:52.those that have been charged in the riots have had previous convictions.
:22:52. > :22:59.-- 70%. We need to move on to Libya. Diane Garbutt, you described Libya
:22:59. > :23:04.in May as an elf entered intervention. -- Diane Abbott. It
:23:04. > :23:07.is not sustainable. Would you like to change your opinion? A lot of
:23:07. > :23:11.backbench MPs thought that. We were glad to vote for the original
:23:11. > :23:16.intervention because we thought we were protecting the people in the
:23:16. > :23:22.cities. You have been proved wrong by events. This is a bit like Iraq.
:23:22. > :23:26.There was a point when everyone was crying victory. Bush had this
:23:26. > :23:30.banner, mission accomplished. Let's not say mission accomplished yet.
:23:31. > :23:34.You also said, where advisers go, troops can be found behind. The
:23:34. > :23:40.British public will be wringing their hands tomorrow. Troops have
:23:40. > :23:44.and followed and I am glad of that. I think it is right that backbench
:23:44. > :23:49.MPs should express what a lot of the British public were thinking.
:23:49. > :23:55.It would have been very poor... Even if you were wrong.
:23:55. > :24:05.public's concerns are valid. Let me bring the one to another public
:24:05. > :24:10.concern. How ashamed are you to discover the incredible extent and
:24:10. > :24:15.complicity of the last Labour government with Colonel Gaddafi?
:24:15. > :24:18.Well... As you know there are a number of aspects of the last
:24:18. > :24:25.Labour government I was not absolutely thrilled was. Things
:24:25. > :24:29.will come out... Things have come out, how ashamed of you? The idea
:24:29. > :24:34.that our security services, under a Labour government, would be
:24:34. > :24:43.complicit in returning someone to Libya clearly to be tortured, and
:24:43. > :24:45.he was tortured, for three years. have always been against any breath
:24:45. > :24:50.of intimation that British government could be involved with
:24:50. > :24:56.torture. How about the Prime Minister helping side Gaddafi with
:24:56. > :25:01.his PhD thesis? Why was it necessary... I understood and the
:25:01. > :25:04.point that he wanted to change the trajectory that Libya was on, but
:25:04. > :25:09.it did not mean that Labour had to climb into bed with them.
:25:09. > :25:14.Parliament known, you can be assured parliamentarians on both
:25:14. > :25:21.sides would have expressed their concern about these things. In your
:25:21. > :25:26.view, what is worst of the Blair years, the way Mr Blair cosy up to
:25:26. > :25:32.Mr Gaddafi or Mr Blair becoming a godfather to one of Mr Murdoch's
:25:32. > :25:37.children? You are tempting me! In the long run, the fact that Tony
:25:37. > :25:42.Blair was godfather... It is a close call. Was it acceptable that
:25:42. > :25:48.MI6 helped Mr Gaddafi's forces with anti- Gaddafi rebels? I would not
:25:48. > :25:52.be able to comment on that allegation. Other than to say that
:25:52. > :25:58.clearly such matters are serious. The Prime Minister is making a
:25:58. > :26:03.statement to the House later and I understand he has suggested that
:26:03. > :26:06.this may be a proper matter for an inquiry. There is an existing
:26:06. > :26:09.inquiry, the gives an inquiry, and that could be extended to consider
:26:09. > :26:16.matters of such collusion and the British government must always
:26:16. > :26:19.stand against torture and improper behaviour. There must be a concern
:26:19. > :26:24.among MPs like yourself that this sort of thing isn't continuing
:26:24. > :26:29.elsewhere. Firstly, we should have gone into Libya to protect Libby --
:26:29. > :26:33.Libyan people. Secondly, I was very clear that it looked on the
:26:33. > :26:37.evidence as if there was illegal rendition in the last government.
:26:37. > :26:40.The gives an inquiry is the right place to start and it would be
:26:40. > :26:46.logical to get a High Court judge to look into this. But I do have
:26:46. > :26:50.the concern that there are other despotic regimes in North Africa
:26:50. > :26:54.and the Middle East. We must be very careful that our foreign
:26:54. > :26:57.policy does not continue to sustain them in the same way, including
:26:57. > :27:02.potentially detention of people in large numbers in Syria. My
:27:02. > :27:07.particular concern is the way we manage our arms trade. We have
:27:07. > :27:10.often made a lot of money out of selling arms to countries with
:27:10. > :27:15.regimes we should in no way be publicly supporting. I hope that
:27:15. > :27:21.will be a review. A on the economy, why it is the recovery worse than
:27:21. > :27:26.the recession? In what respect? Falling living standards,
:27:26. > :27:30.unemployment among young people, no sense of growth, growth is lower
:27:30. > :27:36.than it was a year ago. For most people the recovery is hurting more
:27:36. > :27:40.than the recession. Globally, we have seen the problems in the
:27:40. > :27:44.United States. We can't pretend we are insulated from that and
:27:44. > :27:48.insulated from things like rising commodity prices. But it is
:27:48. > :27:53.important that remain tame the course of getting hold of the
:27:53. > :27:57.deficit by doing that. We succeed in having market confidence in the
:27:57. > :28:01.economy. You have to do something about growth as well. For most
:28:01. > :28:08.damaging thing we could do in relation to growth would be to
:28:09. > :28:13.choke it off. By losing that confidence, taking the advice of Ed
:28:13. > :28:16.Balls and others who say we should increase spending at this time, we
:28:16. > :28:21.have seen the fact that a huge surge of spending in the US has not
:28:22. > :28:26.produced the growth they want. The important thing is to maintain that
:28:26. > :28:31.confidence, maintain our course. What spending would Labour make --
:28:31. > :28:37.spending cuts would lead to make to cut the deficit? But we have run
:28:37. > :28:40.out of Tarin! Don't say I am not good to you! -- we have run out of
:28:40. > :28:43.time. That's all for today, thanks to our
:28:43. > :28:46.guests. I'll be back tomorrow along with Jo Coburn for an extended
:28:46. > :28:49.programme. There's just too much politics to cram into half an hour.
:28:49. > :28:52.Not least Boris Johnson in front of one Select Committee talking about