16/09/2011

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:00:28. > :00:31.Alone and welcome to The Daily Politics on Friday. As George

:00:31. > :00:37.Osborne warns that Britain is not immune to troubles in the eurozone,

:00:37. > :00:44.has the City learned the lessons of the financial crisis? And after a

:00:44. > :00:47.bruising year of lost referendums and other setbacks, how are the

:00:47. > :00:52.Liberal Democrats feeling as they head towards party conference? And

:00:52. > :01:01.what does the future hold for the Tories? We are joined by one of the

:01:01. > :01:04.brightest young stars. And talking of big ideas, we go

:01:04. > :01:08.back to the free school in Slough which opened its doors for the

:01:08. > :01:14.first time this week, Langley Primary School. We started with a

:01:14. > :01:24.proposal, and then it picked up more and more support. And now, it

:01:24. > :01:26.

:01:26. > :01:31.And with me today, Sue Cameron of the Financial times, and Jackie

:01:31. > :01:33.Ashley from The Guardian. Later today, George Osborne will join

:01:33. > :01:37.European finance ministers to discuss the global financial crisis.

:01:37. > :01:39.This morning he has told an audience of business people in

:01:40. > :01:44.Manchester that the fate of the euro cannot be a matter of

:01:44. > :01:49.indifference to Britain. indifference to Britain.

:01:49. > :01:53.Here at home we are not immune to what is going on on our doorstep.

:01:53. > :01:59.America and the eurozone are our two biggest export markets. But I

:01:59. > :02:03.am confident that we can weather the storm. That was George Osborne.

:02:03. > :02:07.He's talking about Britain not being immune, Sue Cameron gone but

:02:07. > :02:13.it seems that the banking system is better regulated, but nonetheless,

:02:13. > :02:18.is not immune to Rogue Traders? Absolutely, what a spectacular

:02:18. > :02:24.disaster. And it comes almost three years exactly since the collapse of

:02:24. > :02:28.Lehman Brothers. It is a terrible problem for confidence. As George

:02:28. > :02:33.Osborne says, although Britain might be in a better position to

:02:33. > :02:36.weather the storm, we are certainly not immune from such storms. It

:02:36. > :02:44.seems as though the whole system is staggering from crisis to crisis.

:02:44. > :02:50.And then, in the middle of it, you get UBS losing �2 billion. It is

:02:50. > :02:54.the same greed, the same driven profit at any price. That's the

:02:54. > :02:59.point - is it about culture, is that culture still so very

:02:59. > :03:03.prevalent, do you think, Jackie Ashley? I think the very fact that

:03:03. > :03:08.he could lose that much money without anybody noticing, it must

:03:08. > :03:12.have been going on for some time, presumably. Another interesting

:03:12. > :03:15.thing, in the report on banking which they're all considering now,

:03:15. > :03:19.I don't think there is any mention of dealing with Rogue Traders like

:03:19. > :03:24.this. So I think this will happen again, unless more reforms are put

:03:24. > :03:28.in place. I suppose it could be grist to the mill for those who

:03:28. > :03:35.support the separation between retail and investment banking.

:03:35. > :03:38.can you stop it? If they go off and have a gamble, how can you stop it?

:03:38. > :03:42.This time last year, things were challenging enough for the Liberal

:03:42. > :03:47.Democrats. But since that party conference, the party has had a

:03:47. > :03:50.torrid time. Rebellions over tuition fees were followed by

:03:50. > :03:54.defeat in the AV referendum, and near annihilation at the local

:03:55. > :03:58.elections. Add in agonies over the NHS, boundary changes which could

:03:58. > :04:01.hit the party hard, and this week promises to be even more

:04:01. > :04:06.challenging for the party. Our political correspondent Carole

:04:07. > :04:11.walker joins us now. What do you think will be top of the agenda?

:04:11. > :04:15.think the overall problem for the party will be how it can set out a

:04:15. > :04:19.really distinctive Liberal Democrat voice, one which appeals not just

:04:19. > :04:22.to Liberal Democrat activists, but to voters more widely, without

:04:22. > :04:27.becoming some sort of internal opposition to their coalition

:04:27. > :04:32.partners. Clearly, there are some key flashpoints on this. We know

:04:32. > :04:38.that on the NHS, for example, some very senior figures in the party,

:04:39. > :04:43.including Baroness Williams, are very unhappy indeed that the

:04:43. > :04:46.leadership at the moment are planning to have just a topical

:04:46. > :04:49.discussion and a question-and- answer session on this. They want

:04:49. > :04:52.to have a proper motion which they can vote on to set out their

:04:52. > :04:56.opposition to some of the changes which are being brought in in the

:04:56. > :04:59.NHS, even though those changes have been amended somewhat. They're

:04:59. > :05:03.trying to force a vote in the Conference on that. Beyond that, it

:05:03. > :05:07.will be fascinated to see what kind of tone we get on things like

:05:07. > :05:12.taxation. The Lib Dems are very opposed to any moves to scrap the

:05:12. > :05:16.top 50p rate on tax. They want the effort to go into lifting people at

:05:16. > :05:19.the bottom end. And indeed, concerns on things like benefits

:05:19. > :05:25.changes, in particular the ideas being floated about removing some

:05:25. > :05:28.of the benefits from rioters. I'm joined now by the Liberal

:05:28. > :05:33.Democrat MP Tom Brake. On health, is it time for your colleagues like

:05:33. > :05:38.Baroness Williams to be quiet on this issue? Certainly we have made

:05:38. > :05:43.a huge amount of progress on the bill. The Government came forward

:05:43. > :05:49.after the listening exercise with more than 180 amendments. I think

:05:49. > :05:52.it has been substantially improved. So, they should shut up? There may

:05:52. > :05:55.be scope for more negotiations behind the scenes, but in terms of

:05:55. > :05:59.the broad brush of the bill, I think that it is what is going to

:06:00. > :06:04.be. So, the Liberal Democrats will not be able to vote on this, the

:06:04. > :06:08.party faithful? We're going to have a question-and-answer session on

:06:08. > :06:10.the subject, I'm sure the members will want to express their views.

:06:11. > :06:15.But broadly speaking, we have made the changes which were needed to

:06:15. > :06:18.the bill, particularly addressing people's concerns about

:06:19. > :06:25.privatisation. That does not sound very democratic, it sounds like

:06:25. > :06:28.you're running scared of what my -- what they might vote for. The we

:06:28. > :06:32.had a very democratic conference in the spring, we had a motion which

:06:32. > :06:36.set out clearly what we were going to do. You have had a pretty awful

:06:36. > :06:39.year, electorally, and now we have had the boundary review, and it

:06:39. > :06:45.looks as if the Liberal Democrats are going to come off worse in

:06:45. > :06:47.terms of seats being split up and lost, not least your own... If you

:06:48. > :06:54.talk to any of the political parties, they will probably say the

:06:54. > :06:58.same thing. But how do you feel about your seat? Clearly, if the

:06:58. > :07:03.Boundary commission proposals go ahead, it becomes a completely

:07:03. > :07:07.different -- seat. It gets split in half and gets joined up with parts

:07:07. > :07:10.of Croydon. My personal opinion is that that is not a natural

:07:10. > :07:14.community, and the boundary commission will need to look at it

:07:14. > :07:18.again. You did vote for these proposals in the first place. But

:07:18. > :07:23.now it looks as if you and others are saying you do not like the

:07:23. > :07:26.results? What we voted for was that there should be 50 fewer seats, we

:07:26. > :07:30.accept that. The Boundary commission has come forward with

:07:30. > :07:36.proposals, and I think we are entitled to put forward alternative

:07:36. > :07:41.suggestions. Will you vote it down if it does not go the way you would

:07:41. > :07:50.like? It is far too early to say what the outcome might be. If any

:07:50. > :07:53.vote takes place, it will be in 20,013. -- it will be in 2013.

:07:53. > :07:57.it will be difficult for you and other Liberal Democrats. Do you

:07:57. > :08:01.accept that many of your colleagues have built up personal connections

:08:01. > :08:05.with the electorate, which you will now lose? If the boundaries are

:08:05. > :08:09.changed, then of course we will have to establish ourselves in an

:08:09. > :08:14.adjacent part of the constituency. But I'm confident that my

:08:14. > :08:18.colleagues are capable of doing that. You do not feel stitched up?

:08:19. > :08:22.No, I think the Boundary commission have conducted an exercise which to

:08:22. > :08:26.a great extent has been a desktop exercise. We now have to come back

:08:26. > :08:31.to them and say, you need to look again, particularly at natural

:08:31. > :08:35.communities, and their historic links, and how they co-exist.

:08:35. > :08:38.Looking at taxation, the party has always said that it wants to take

:08:38. > :08:43.people out of the bottom end of the scale, something you say you have

:08:43. > :08:47.partly achieved. You're also clear that the 50p tax rate should stay

:08:47. > :08:52.for the moment. But is there a possibility of trading that, seeing

:08:52. > :08:57.it abolished, if you got your mansion tax? Again, it is far too

:08:58. > :09:02.early to say. We have said clearly that we are committed to increasing

:09:02. > :09:06.the tax threshold, up to �10,000, by the end of the parliament. We

:09:06. > :09:10.are on track to do that. And we believe that at this present moment,

:09:10. > :09:16.we need to maintain the 50p tax, because people on low and middle

:09:16. > :09:20.incomes are suffering. But would you be prepared to see the 50p tax

:09:20. > :09:25.rate abolished if you had some kind of mansion tax or land value tax at

:09:25. > :09:35.the other end? I'm not part of the Treasury team. But what would you

:09:35. > :09:37.

:09:37. > :09:41.like to see? It is too early to say. It is above my pay grade. Well, I

:09:41. > :09:45.think it is not going to happen. The Tories just will not have it.

:09:45. > :09:48.They will not have a mansion tax. I think it will be the issue which

:09:49. > :09:52.will show the dividing lines between the two parties in the

:09:52. > :09:56.coalition. There will be a debate about the 50p tax rate, because it

:09:56. > :10:01.is symbolic. It says what each party stands for. It will be very

:10:01. > :10:05.interesting what comes out at the end. At the present moment in time,

:10:06. > :10:08.with the economic threats which we are facing as a country, and the

:10:08. > :10:11.difficulties for people, particularly on low incomes, I

:10:11. > :10:16.think it would be completely unsustainable for us as a party to

:10:16. > :10:21.get rid of the 50p rate. But the Conservatives are saying, yes, we

:10:21. > :10:24.need to do it to stimulate business. But it will be much harder for them,

:10:24. > :10:30.now that they have had this disaster with the UBS, politically,

:10:30. > :10:34.to get rid of the 50p tax rate. what if this review, in January,

:10:35. > :10:40.says that it makes no money for the Treasury and harms the economy,

:10:40. > :10:43.what would your position be then? We will consider the report

:10:44. > :10:49.carefully. Those arguments have been deployed in the past, but I

:10:49. > :10:56.would want to examine the detail. It sounds as if you would not be

:10:56. > :10:59.prepared to even look at the idea of abolishing that 50p tax rate.

:10:59. > :11:03.Maybe we can do things in terms of, if there is an issue about the 50p

:11:03. > :11:09.rate, and issues to do with tax evasion and tax avoidance, then

:11:09. > :11:14.that is something we could address. But again, I think the message

:11:14. > :11:18.which that would give, at this present moment in time, would be a

:11:18. > :11:23.very, very bad message. Do you agree with Chris Huhne that Nick

:11:23. > :11:28.Clegg would make a tremendous European Commissioner? I'm sure

:11:28. > :11:32.that if...! I'm sure that Nick Clegg, in future years, when he is

:11:32. > :11:36.considering alternatives, maybe that is something he would consider.

:11:36. > :11:40.But personally I am very happy with Nick Clegg as party leader. He's

:11:40. > :11:47.doing a great job. It was borne out in a recent opinion poll in the

:11:47. > :11:51.Times, which showed that as a party, we have both the right policies,

:11:51. > :11:56.according to a substantial number of people, as well as the right

:11:56. > :11:59.leaders. So much for the Lib Dems, but what

:11:59. > :12:03.about the Tories? It should not be forgotten that they did not

:12:03. > :12:06.actually win the general election last year. The coalition still has

:12:06. > :12:10.more than three years to run. But a group of Tory MPs have written a

:12:10. > :12:14.book which sets out their vision of a future without the Liberal

:12:14. > :12:17.Democrats. Looking into their crystal ball, they see their ideas

:12:17. > :12:21.returning David Cameron to Downing Street at the next election, but

:12:21. > :12:26.also but in Britain firmly on the path back to greatness. They're

:12:26. > :12:30.calling for radical reform of the Health Service, patients to be held

:12:30. > :12:34.responsible for drinking, smoking and diet, and being asked to

:12:34. > :12:37.contribute more for excessive and preventable dependency on the NHS.

:12:37. > :12:41.They think lower tax rates are the answer to kick-starting growth,

:12:41. > :12:46.arguing that it previously worked for countries like Estonia, which

:12:46. > :12:49.has a flat rate of 26%. The book is bursting with new ideas, but they

:12:49. > :12:53.have nothing to say about David Cameron's pet project, the "big

:12:53. > :12:58.society", perhaps because that slogan failed to win the day in

:12:58. > :13:05.2010. We are joined by one of the authors, Conservative MP Chris

:13:05. > :13:08.Skidmore. Let's be clear, you have got no time for the idea, I presume,

:13:08. > :13:18.that the coalition might continue beyond this Parliament. Absolutely

:13:18. > :13:19.

:13:19. > :13:23.it will depend on the election in 2015, the voters. But what about

:13:23. > :13:26.you, you would not want that? want to fight for a Conservative

:13:26. > :13:30.government, with David Cameron as the Conservative Prime Minister.

:13:30. > :13:36.But what about the view which has been expressed to me by people

:13:36. > :13:40.within the party, and MPs like Nick Knowles, that being dependent on

:13:40. > :13:48.Liberal Democrat support is preferable to relying on MPs on the

:13:49. > :13:52.right of the Tory party? I'm a Tory MP, and many of the 150 new MPs

:13:52. > :13:55.fought as Conservatives, and we want to fight as Conservatives at

:13:55. > :13:59.the next general election. This is why we have put this book together

:13:59. > :14:08.now. We have probably less than 1,000 days until the collision ends.

:14:09. > :14:15.We need to get these ideas out for discussion. So Domitian -- the

:14:15. > :14:24.coalition ends. Have you had in the input from people at the top of the

:14:24. > :14:28.party? The book has only just been published. You said the coalition

:14:28. > :14:31.is at its best when it is bold, and it is bold when it is Conservative,

:14:31. > :14:36.so presumably you feel the Government has suffered by being

:14:36. > :14:39.constrained by the Liberal Democrats? When you look at Iain

:14:39. > :14:43.Duncan Smith's welfare reforms, capping housing benefit, when you

:14:43. > :14:47.look at Michael Gove's fiscal policies, these are successful

:14:47. > :14:52.policies which are working, but overall, they are Conservative

:14:52. > :14:55.policies. Hopefully when it comes to the general election, the

:14:55. > :15:00.electorate will have realised that within the coalition, it has been

:15:00. > :15:05.the Conservative Party which has presented radical reform. Three

:15:05. > :15:10.schools, NHS reforms, nothing to do with the Liberal Democrats...

:15:10. > :15:16.disagree. Clearly, as a coalition, the different parties have pushed

:15:16. > :15:18.parts of their manifesto with varying degrees of success. An

:15:18. > :15:21.assessment on The Politics Show actually said that three-quarters

:15:21. > :15:31.of the programme of the coalition was emanating from the Liberal

:15:31. > :15:35.Democrats. But on those issues we There are Liberal Democrat

:15:35. > :15:39.ministers in those departments, but it may be that the overall flavour

:15:39. > :15:44.comes more from the Conservatives' manifesto. In other areas of policy,

:15:44. > :15:47.it will be a Liberal Democrat emphasis that comes across.

:15:47. > :15:52.feel that NHS reform has been watered down because of the Liberal

:15:52. > :15:55.Democrats? Not at all. The Health Select Committee made very similar

:15:55. > :15:58.recommendations to what has happened about clinical

:15:58. > :16:02.commissioning groups. We would agree that we have to make reform

:16:02. > :16:06.of the NHS is to survive for the next 30 years, otherwise it is

:16:06. > :16:08.going to run out of money with the ageing population. One of the

:16:08. > :16:13.things you have said in the literature is that patients should

:16:13. > :16:19.be held responsible in the future for lifestyle choices, so excessive

:16:19. > :16:24.smoking, drinking, diet and obesity. You say they should be expected to

:16:24. > :16:28.contribute more. How? This is a debate that we need to have. First

:16:28. > :16:32.and foremost, we want to stay within the context of the NHS

:16:32. > :16:35.constitution, free at the point of delivery, but when you look at

:16:35. > :16:41.services in the NHS and you look at people who are dependent on it,

:16:41. > :16:46.some people persistently use NHS services, and resources are being

:16:46. > :16:50.taken up... How do they contribute more? That is something we have to

:16:50. > :16:54.discuss. You're talking about contributing financially? It may be

:16:54. > :16:58.the case that if somebody has told that they have to stop leading a

:16:58. > :17:02.lifestyle in a certain way and they persistently refused, the NHS and

:17:02. > :17:07.the doctors have the ability to act on that. In what way? Should they

:17:07. > :17:10.be refused treatment? Should they pay? It may be that they could be

:17:10. > :17:14.paying through a social insurance scheme. When you look at the rest

:17:14. > :17:19.of Europe, the Netherlands, for example, they have a compulsory

:17:19. > :17:22.scheme which the state subsidises. They have a reset mechanism which

:17:22. > :17:25.ensures that the most probable patients, those with genetic

:17:26. > :17:30.disorders, the insurance companies compete for that. We do not put

:17:31. > :17:35.that idea in the book, but in terms of funding the NHS by 2050, it will

:17:35. > :17:38.need about �230 billion in order to cover the ageing population. We

:17:38. > :17:45.have to find that somewhere eventually. You have hinted that

:17:45. > :17:49.the idea of social insurance. It has always been difficult to

:17:49. > :17:54.suggest it. How would you persuade an electorate to sign up for that?

:17:54. > :17:58.David Cameron has said, we will not go down that route. It is not

:17:58. > :18:01.something for 2015. The Netherlands spent 25 years discussing how to

:18:01. > :18:05.fund their healthcare system. We could have a conversation or 25

:18:05. > :18:08.years. We have a commission talking about the social care, and we may

:18:08. > :18:12.have to look at an insurance mechanism in order to fund

:18:12. > :18:16.residential care. You talk about people who smoke a lot and eat too

:18:16. > :18:20.much and drink too much. By and large, these tend to be the poorer

:18:20. > :18:24.groups in society, and it seems to me the only answer is to say that

:18:24. > :18:29.they are going to have to pay. But surely cannot be right, it is not

:18:29. > :18:32.an election-winning formula. Balance that in the book with what

:18:32. > :18:36.happens in the United States where you create health gaps. We do not

:18:36. > :18:41.focus on who is using the NHS, and when you look at statistics

:18:41. > :18:45.elsewhere, about 10% of the population are responsible for 40%

:18:45. > :18:50.of the costs. If you target and intervene on that percentage, you

:18:50. > :18:53.can bring down costs dramatically. How do you marry that with the

:18:53. > :19:03.anti-nanny state that we hear so much about Greta Marc Dutroux not

:19:03. > :19:05.

:19:05. > :19:08.want public education about not drinking and smoking. The approach

:19:08. > :19:12.is universal. The reason why the NHS does not deliver as much as it

:19:12. > :19:16.could is because millionaires get the same treatment as the people

:19:16. > :19:20.who desperately-needed. What do you think about that idea? I am pleased

:19:20. > :19:25.that Chris is putting his forward as an idea, something we can

:19:25. > :19:29.discuss, because we generate a lot of discussion in coalition. You are

:19:29. > :19:32.dead against it! We might want to put into play ideas that you

:19:32. > :19:37.achieve what Riz is trying to achieve by putting additional

:19:38. > :19:42.taxation on fatty foods, for instance. -- Chris. Generally, you

:19:42. > :19:45.look fairly shocked at the idea. What I am comfortable with is that

:19:45. > :19:53.in coalition we are grown-up enough to discuss these ideas and come

:19:53. > :19:58.forward with a decision... You are sitting on the fence, Tom Brake.

:19:58. > :20:01.strong, puritanical idea of, we will tell you how to live your lies,

:20:01. > :20:04.the rich will be able to enjoy themselves because there will

:20:04. > :20:08.always be doctors who look after them. The people who will suffer

:20:08. > :20:12.are the poorest. People have to take greater individual

:20:12. > :20:17.responsibility over their own lives. Having universal service, we have

:20:17. > :20:21.not focused on how people can take individual responsibility. Without

:20:21. > :20:27.money, they cannot. And dedication as a role. There is an entire

:20:27. > :20:33.slimming industry, a multi-million- pound industry... Don't we know it!

:20:33. > :20:36.I'm afraid we're going to have to wrap it up. Now, over the past year,

:20:36. > :20:39.the Daily Politics has been following the progress of a free

:20:39. > :20:42.school being set up near Slough. Last week, Langley Hall Primary

:20:42. > :20:48.School opened its doors for the first time. In a moment, we will

:20:48. > :20:57.speak to the woman who set it up, but first Adam Fleming goes back to

:20:57. > :21:00.Day three of a new term at a new school. The second that you walk

:21:00. > :21:05.into this building, you can take it is is a school that has been open

:21:05. > :21:14.for less than a week. First of all, everything is immaculate, and the

:21:14. > :21:18.air is the full of smell of fresh Langley Hall is one of 24 free

:21:18. > :21:22.schools that opened this month. It is publicly funded, free from local

:21:22. > :21:26.authority control, and it was set up by the owner of an education

:21:26. > :21:32.company. On the Daily Politics, we have followed its progress from the

:21:32. > :21:38.birth of the idea to the first chime of the school bell. It is a

:21:38. > :21:41.bit like a snowball coming down a hill. It started with a proposal,

:21:41. > :21:46.obviously, and as it started to roll, it picked up more and more

:21:46. > :21:50.support, more and more people into the project. Things started rolling

:21:50. > :21:54.in June last year when potential free schools applied to the

:21:54. > :21:59.Department for Education. That was followed up in December 2010 by a

:21:59. > :22:03.very detailed business plan, 250 pages long. In April, parents

:22:03. > :22:06.applied for places, a leap of faith because they did not know which

:22:06. > :22:14.building it would be in. Some free schools Ali had their funding

:22:14. > :22:19.agreed late last month, which was a little bit last minute. -- Only.

:22:19. > :22:22.has been bumpy. At every level, all the way along the line, the delay

:22:22. > :22:27.we experience in releasing funds, you are ready to go, just waiting

:22:27. > :22:30.for that release, because things take time to put in place. Some

:22:30. > :22:35.involved in the project think the government will not let the school

:22:35. > :22:40.be free enough. I think the term free school is a misnomer, because

:22:40. > :22:44.in actual fact we have more red tape than ordinary schools. They

:22:44. > :22:51.have insisted on putting in extra layers of financial controls to

:22:51. > :22:54.make sure that we cannot misuse public money. Money is one of the

:22:54. > :23:02.things that worries the critics. Nick Clegg claims he prevented free

:23:02. > :23:05.Something that has always been denied by the Conservative

:23:05. > :23:10.Education Secretary, Michael Gove. Labour say that town hall education

:23:10. > :23:14.budgets will be cut as a result. None of that seems to bother the

:23:14. > :23:19.parents of Langley Hall, where it is home time. I think it was about

:23:19. > :23:24.it being a new school, it is exciting. I am a mature parent, it

:23:24. > :23:27.looks like it is going back to what it was before. Like all reforms to

:23:27. > :23:30.education, a lot of time will have to pass before we know whether the

:23:30. > :23:35.free schools policy is really working.

:23:35. > :23:38.Adam Fleming reporting, and we are joined by Sally Eaton, director of

:23:38. > :23:43.education at the Langley Hall primary school. It has been a long,

:23:43. > :23:47.hard road. It certainly has. Give us a flavour of what it has been

:23:47. > :23:52.like. It has been challenging, as you can imagine, and we did not

:23:52. > :23:56.expected to be anything else. The timescale was, I suppose, one of

:23:56. > :24:02.the challengers. We had 10 weeks to refurbish a rather large building,

:24:02. > :24:08.and it looked as if that was an impossible task, but we managed it.

:24:08. > :24:12.Four days before we actually opened, we have no tables and chairs,

:24:12. > :24:17.because the company that was going to deliver them to us went into

:24:17. > :24:22.liquidation. We had to find replacements. I see, yes, so

:24:22. > :24:25.difficult majestically. Yes! Picking up on what one of your

:24:25. > :24:30.colleagues said, free schools is a misnomer because you remain weighed

:24:30. > :24:35.down by bureaucracy and rules and regulation. Is that how you feel?

:24:35. > :24:38.Yes, I mean, we met almost on a weekly basis from someone from the

:24:38. > :24:44.DFB all the way through the process. They wanted to know what our

:24:44. > :24:49.policies and procedures were. There were times when they advised,

:24:49. > :24:56.strongly advised that things were changed. So yes, you know, we were

:24:56. > :24:59.very much rained in and sort of kept together. Is that how you

:24:59. > :25:04.understood it was going to be at the beginning, the idea that he

:25:04. > :25:10.would be more free to do your own thing? Yes, I think we did. I think

:25:10. > :25:12.we will be free with our curriculum, and that is very important to us.

:25:12. > :25:18.Although the national curriculum will be the bedrock and the

:25:18. > :25:24.foundation of what we do, we want to be able to look at the creative

:25:24. > :25:27.arts and other subjects and perhaps develop them in a different way.

:25:27. > :25:32.Sue Cameron, the idea of free schools here does not sound as free,

:25:32. > :25:36.or from the film, as free as the Secretary of State and the

:25:36. > :25:40.government said it would be, free of local authority control, free

:25:40. > :25:45.with the curriculum. You have got Whitehall on your back. It sounds

:25:45. > :25:51.as though you have! I think it is a pity. It is clearly quite difficult,

:25:51. > :25:55.it is a new concept, and if they just said, you can do what you like,

:25:55. > :25:59.or something pretty close to that, when things went wrong... One of

:25:59. > :26:03.the good things about the schools, there is an element of them being

:26:03. > :26:07.pilot projects, so different things can happen. Some are bound to be

:26:07. > :26:10.more successful than others. You have to be careful that to have

:26:10. > :26:15.some financial controls at the beginning. But it does sound as

:26:15. > :26:18.though they have overdone it. not know, it is public money. If he

:26:18. > :26:23.wanted to use your own money and charge fees, you can have a private

:26:23. > :26:27.school, but they should be some accountability on that. On the idea

:26:27. > :26:31.of profit not being allowed, should they? Sweden argues that is what

:26:31. > :26:35.made them successful. I worry when profit comes into education like

:26:35. > :26:39.that. If it is government money, the state says it will educate the

:26:39. > :26:42.nation's children, and then somebody else makes a profit.

:26:43. > :26:46.not think it is necessary either. The money that we have got coming

:26:46. > :26:51.in is perfectly sufficient, and it just brings in an element that

:26:51. > :26:59.might be confusing. Thank you very much. Time now to see what else has

:26:59. > :27:02.been going on in our round-up of David Cameron began the week in

:27:02. > :27:07.Moscow for the first official talks since the poisoning of almost by

:27:07. > :27:12.Alexander Litvinenko in London in 2006. The Prime Minister said he

:27:13. > :27:20.wanted to rebuild the relationship. The Russian Prime Minister, Dmitry

:27:20. > :27:22.Medvedev, he would have made a good KGB agent. Warnings of cuts to

:27:22. > :27:27.pensions, the Labour leader Ed Miliband upset activists by

:27:27. > :27:30.refusing to support strikes. believe it was a mistake to have

:27:30. > :27:34.strikes at the last summer, and I continue to believe that. Nick

:27:34. > :27:38.Clegg revealed a prescription for growth, getting the country to work

:27:38. > :27:41.building new roads, rail and broadband projects, but there was

:27:41. > :27:46.gloomy news as unemployment rose sharply, particularly among the

:27:46. > :27:51.young. Mr Cameron denied claims of complacency. If we were not taking

:27:51. > :27:55.a step, you have to make the cuts! At plans for a shake-up of

:27:55. > :27:59.constituency boundaries left many MPs are stunned and even some big

:27:59. > :28:06.beasts worry about their future. Ken Clarke, Member of Parliament

:28:06. > :28:11.for Rushcliffe. How very candid, as ever, of Ken Clarke. Thank you to

:28:11. > :28:18.my guests. Enjoy the conferences. That is all for this week, but I'll

:28:18. > :28:22.be back on Sunday at 1:35pm on Sunday on BBC One what the Politics

:28:22. > :28:25.Show. We will be back on the Daily Politics next week with all the

:28:25. > :28:28.news from Birmingham. Until then, we will leave you with that rare