:00:29. > :00:34.Afternoon, folks. The sun is out and the sky is blue and the
:00:34. > :00:40.economic backdrop is grim and getting grimmer. Maybe that is why
:00:40. > :00:45.the Lib Dems have voted to create a National Institute of well-being.
:00:45. > :00:55.For all of you cynics out there, -- before you scoff, I wanted to know
:00:55. > :01:25.
:01:25. > :01:29.that I feel better already, even We will be talking to Danny
:01:29. > :01:34.Alexander. That is not all, because Jo is here in Birmingham as well,
:01:34. > :01:38.so it must be an important day. What a welcome. I am here as well,
:01:38. > :01:42.I will be looking back at what a turbulent year the Liberal
:01:42. > :01:48.Democrats have had. It has not been plain sailing for Nick Clegg. What
:01:48. > :01:52.with tuition fees, the a be a referendum and health. If you are a
:01:52. > :02:02.member of the party, you may not want to watch our review of the
:02:02. > :02:07.
:02:07. > :02:11.year, a health warning for you. And Yes, all that coming up in the next
:02:11. > :02:17.hour of political pantomime. Sorry, I mean public service broadcasting
:02:17. > :02:25.at its finest. We have the former Chief Secretary to the Treasury,
:02:25. > :02:29.David Laws MP. Welcome back. How is life outside the cabinet? Not bad,
:02:29. > :02:35.I am a strong supporter of the coalition, -- government. What have
:02:35. > :02:41.you been up to? I have my job to do as a Member of Parliament and I am
:02:41. > :02:45.supporting the government involved in the parliamentary services bill.
:02:45. > :02:48.Sometimes you seem to be supporting the government more than some of
:02:48. > :02:52.the members of the government? not sure about that but I believe
:02:52. > :02:57.it is important that the Liberal Democrats should play a
:02:57. > :03:02.constructive role in the coalition. Sometimes we need to act as a
:03:02. > :03:07.breaker in particular areas. But our role in the coalition
:03:07. > :03:10.government is to be partners and to pursue a constructive partnership
:03:10. > :03:14.and make sure we get as much of foreign policy agenda implemented
:03:14. > :03:18.in government. I understand that, it is true of any party in a
:03:18. > :03:24.coalition. But constructive relationship, it hasn't exactly
:03:24. > :03:30.been the hallmark of speeches. Are you comfortable with this Tory
:03:30. > :03:34.bashing? I think the party has been trying to find the right balance in
:03:34. > :03:40.coalition, between making clear to the electorate that there is
:03:40. > :03:43.distinction between the Liberal Democrats, in the case of values
:03:43. > :03:48.and policies, many of them, but demonstrating something that the
:03:49. > :03:52.public were sceptical about in May 2010, that two parties with
:03:52. > :03:55.different traditions could work together. I think in the first year
:03:55. > :03:59.we got the balance wrong, the public felt we were not hearing
:03:59. > :04:02.enough from the Liberal Democrats - - they were not hearing enough. In
:04:03. > :04:07.the second year, we have tried to get the balance right and I am sure
:04:07. > :04:13.that we will do. The party has been trying to re-establish its identity,
:04:13. > :04:20.that is part of the motive for the Tory bashing. In most areas, your
:04:20. > :04:24.policy, the party's policy, is the policy of the coalition government.
:04:24. > :04:29.You haven't got a separate defence policy from the coalition
:04:29. > :04:33.government, or do you? We have our own policies as Liberal Democrats,
:04:33. > :04:38.but we have agreed with the Conservatives, a plan for coalition
:04:38. > :04:44.government. Sometimes a very big issues like tax, the Conservatives
:04:44. > :04:47.have made concessions, so we are delivering. You have not got
:04:47. > :04:51.policies in the main areas, because they are the combine compromised
:04:51. > :04:55.policies of the coalition. There is not a separate Lib Dem policy on
:04:55. > :04:59.growth, or is there? That is the nature of coalition, that you come
:04:59. > :05:04.together, and agree while you are governing together, to make those
:05:04. > :05:07.compromises. At the next general election, we will still have all of
:05:07. > :05:12.the parties competing between themselves with our own policy
:05:12. > :05:18.agendas. It will then be up to the public to decide which of those to
:05:18. > :05:23.support. The Lib Dems' policy for growth is the same as the
:05:23. > :05:26.coalition's, at the moment? That's right, we are working within the
:05:26. > :05:29.coalition government to make sure we have strong support for the
:05:29. > :05:32.deficit reduction strategy, that we were part of shipping, but to make
:05:32. > :05:36.sure, in a very challenging year for the whole of the developed
:05:36. > :05:40.world economy, that we are doing everything we can to support growth,
:05:40. > :05:48.which is critical to the deficit reduction strategy, and there is a
:05:48. > :05:52.lot we can do one grows. Why isn't it working -- on growth. We have
:05:52. > :05:57.had international developments that have been unfavourable. Oil prices
:05:57. > :06:01.going up 50%, food prices doubling, chaos in the eurozone, the US
:06:01. > :06:04.economy slowing down, the Japanese tsunami. All of those are
:06:04. > :06:08.international events, some of those we can help to correct in the
:06:08. > :06:12.future, we need to be working in the eurozone to sort out the
:06:12. > :06:16.problems. Some are outside the power of the British Government in
:06:16. > :06:22.the short term. We can obviously do things, and that debate is
:06:22. > :06:28.happening within the government at the current time, to support growth.
:06:28. > :06:32.I understand it is difficult time for everybody. The IMF poss
:06:32. > :06:38.downgrade of growth forecast was worse for us than for Europe or the
:06:38. > :06:43.United States, we are barely going to grow by 1%. So we are worse.
:06:43. > :06:46.next year, we are forecast to grow in line with all of the major
:06:46. > :06:51.developed economies. In fact, faster than a number of developed
:06:51. > :06:59.countries. But not this year? year we are forecast, and the other
:06:59. > :07:03.major economies are forecast to be growing in the 1%, to 1.5% zone, so
:07:03. > :07:06.all very similar. The problems we have in the United Kingdom are not
:07:06. > :07:09.some particular aspect of the way the government is conducting
:07:09. > :07:13.economic policies, they come as a consequence of international
:07:13. > :07:17.problems, including the very big squeeze on purchasing power,
:07:17. > :07:21.because of the rise in inflation due to the oil price and food price
:07:21. > :07:25.shocks. The IMF said it activity were to undershoot current
:07:25. > :07:31.expectations, and this is me, that is certainly true in Britain, you
:07:31. > :07:35.have undershot your growth forecasts, countries that face
:07:35. > :07:40.historically low yields, and that is also Britain, should also
:07:40. > :07:50.consider delaying some of their planned adjustments. In other words,
:07:50. > :07:50.
:07:50. > :07:54.budget cuts. Why did you follow the IMF's and vice? -- advice.
:07:54. > :07:57.should be sticking with our deficit-reduction plan. It doesn't
:07:57. > :08:01.say that. That is what they have said clearly about Britain,
:08:01. > :08:05.yesterday and in all of their statements over the last few months.
:08:05. > :08:09.They have been absolutely clear they don't want us to change.
:08:09. > :08:14.page 79 of the World economic Outlook, they say that countries
:08:14. > :08:18.like Britain... They don't say if you have got a big deficit, you
:08:18. > :08:24.shouldn't... They are saying if you can borrow cheaply, you should
:08:24. > :08:27.consider delaying budget cuts. Why wouldn't you do that? They were
:08:27. > :08:31.asked this question about Britain yesterday and they made clear they
:08:31. > :08:36.support the existing strategy of the government. It is that strategy
:08:36. > :08:40.that is keeping interest rates low, helping businesses and mortgage
:08:40. > :08:43.payers, and potentially giving scope to the Bank of England to
:08:43. > :08:50.carry out further measures to ease monetary policy, if they think that
:08:51. > :08:55.is necessary. That would not happen if they talk it up. If the Vince
:08:55. > :08:58.and -- tore it up. If Vince Cable called for a new style fiscal
:08:59. > :09:06.stimulus, he is wrong and not going to get it question are he is
:09:06. > :09:09.He is absolutely supporting that he believes the government's deposit
:09:09. > :09:13.reduction strategy should stay in place. He has pointed out sensibly
:09:13. > :09:16.that the Bank of England, when inflation comes down next year as
:09:16. > :09:21.we believe it will do, has the scope to do more quantitative
:09:21. > :09:23.easing. Why did he not call for a fiscal stimulus? He is supporting
:09:23. > :09:27.the policies that Danny Alexander has implemented this week, for
:09:27. > :09:32.example, where we have found an additional half a billion pounds to
:09:32. > :09:37.put into capital expenditure. you seriously looking me in the
:09:37. > :09:42.face and saying that half a billion pounds of a trillion pound economy
:09:42. > :09:45.is a new deal style fiscal stimulus? Tell me. I am saying it
:09:45. > :09:50.is one of a whole series of things that the government is doing, and
:09:50. > :09:56.can be going along with the Bank of England, to support growth. Danny
:09:56. > :09:59.Alexander has made it clear there will be no extra fiscal stimulus. A
:09:59. > :10:03.new deal style stimulus is not saying, we will bring something
:10:03. > :10:08.sport, we will change the money and spend it here rather than there.
:10:08. > :10:12.The key is in the world stimulus. It is extra, and that is not going
:10:12. > :10:16.to happen, is that right? There are other ways of delivering a stimulus
:10:16. > :10:21.to the economy that don't simply rely upon the government breaking
:10:21. > :10:25.public expenditure plans. The CBI has described a number of ways in
:10:25. > :10:30.which the private sector could play a bigger role in supporting growth
:10:30. > :10:35.in infrastructure spending. It is not investing because it doesn't
:10:35. > :10:38.really... It hasn't got confidence in the coalition government to
:10:38. > :10:43.provide the economic framework that would make investment sensible.
:10:43. > :10:46.don't think that is right. I have spoken to the head of the CBI, is
:10:46. > :10:50.supportive of what the government is doing. He doesn't have money to
:10:50. > :10:54.invest. He is looking for the government, which is what the
:10:54. > :11:00.government is also seeking to do, to support private business
:11:00. > :11:04.investment, and talking about the role in infrastructure. Why isn't
:11:04. > :11:07.business investing? Business is reliant on the general state of the
:11:08. > :11:12.economy, and we have been buffeted in the United Kingdom by the same
:11:12. > :11:16.pressures... We have considered that. And we need to look at doing
:11:16. > :11:21.the things we can do to support the businesses that have got the money,
:11:21. > :11:24.but also potentially, to get additional credit through to the
:11:24. > :11:31.small and medium-sized business centre, where we know there are
:11:31. > :11:34.genuine credit constraints. There is a crisis building up in the
:11:34. > :11:39.wholesale money markets, that any banks with substantial sovereign
:11:40. > :11:44.debt exposure can't even borrow now, or they borrow a very high rates
:11:44. > :11:47.and a very short term. It is of a big concern in the United Kingdom
:11:47. > :11:57.there we have this crisis of confidence in the eurozone, that
:11:57. > :12:01.
:12:01. > :12:06.To we have a big stake, even though we are not members of the euro, to
:12:06. > :12:10.solve those problems out. Dee's be a lot to Nick Clegg, David Cameron?
:12:10. > :12:13.-- do you speak a lot? I don't believe in phoning up the
:12:13. > :12:18.leadership 10 times a day and giving them my advice. What about
:12:18. > :12:21.once a day? When I have something to say that I think maybe useful, I
:12:22. > :12:26.feed it in. When they think I have anything to say, they may ask my
:12:26. > :12:31.views. But they have plenty of other very good advisers. Danny
:12:31. > :12:36.Alexander is over there now. He is doing a damn good job. Waiting in
:12:36. > :12:41.the wings, he is joining us in a minute. He is doing a damn good job.
:12:41. > :12:44.You have to say that. He is. Many people in the media were throwing
:12:45. > :12:48.stones original, they are not throwing them now. The Daily
:12:48. > :12:53.Politics has never thrown a stone at Danny Alexander, I want that on
:12:53. > :12:57.the record. We have not thrown one and you either, maybe the odd
:12:57. > :13:02.pebble, or a Chucky. Do you know what that is? Danny will tell you
:13:02. > :13:09.what that is. David Lloyds likes plan A, at least that is what he
:13:09. > :13:15.told us -- David Laws likes. What about you? Are you a A, or B
:13:15. > :13:19.person? We sent Adam off with his box of tricks to find out.
:13:19. > :13:23.This conference is taking place against a backdrop of grim news
:13:23. > :13:27.about the economy. The most recent piece being the IMF downgrading its
:13:27. > :13:30.forecast for Britain's growth this year. Do the Lib Dem delegates
:13:30. > :13:36.thinks the government should stick to its plan a on the economy, or is
:13:36. > :13:42.it time for a Plan B? It is very difficult. We don't know if the
:13:42. > :13:47.plan is working or not. There is no Plan B. I would like to put it in
:13:47. > :13:54.plan B, but I can't see a credible, coherent alternative, so I'll have
:13:54. > :13:58.to go with plan A, against my best wishes. You have gone for plan A,
:13:58. > :14:02.why? It is difficult, but it is slowly moving in the right
:14:02. > :14:07.direction. I think we ought to stick with it. If we change
:14:08. > :14:14.direction, it will undermine the markets. Let's -- it is time for
:14:14. > :14:21.Plan B. Plan A is looking... Affecting the low-paid, the
:14:21. > :14:27.underprivileged only. We now need to speed up the tackling of the
:14:27. > :14:30.rich. One thing you can say about the Conservatives, it does hurt and
:14:30. > :14:34.sometimes the cuts are not fair, but they usually do saw the economy
:14:34. > :14:41.out to an extent. I hope it is the crude way of judging economic
:14:41. > :14:46.policy. I would not take part in that because I am a plan A plus
:14:46. > :14:51.person. I am not trying to be difficult. If you were Michael
:14:51. > :14:55.Crick, I would give the same answer. Your menu choice is to be expanded,
:14:55. > :14:59.it is never that simple. What do you think of this as a polling
:14:59. > :15:04.method? As long as you choose the sampled the cricket, this is
:15:04. > :15:08.precisely the method as the one we used to predict the general
:15:08. > :15:14.election in our exit poll -- as long as you choose the sample
:15:14. > :15:24.correctly. That is the seal of approval from the experts. I will
:15:24. > :15:29.
:15:29. > :15:36.probably go for plan B at the Vince Cable, right up your street,
:15:36. > :15:42.Plan A or plan B on the economy? No, perhaps he does not have a view.
:15:42. > :15:50.Let's see who is in the lead, it is planning by a mile. But a lot of
:15:50. > :15:56.people have said they are voting for Plan A plus. Vince Cable, do
:15:56. > :16:01.you want to pick up one of the balls? You have got it control on
:16:01. > :16:09.the interest rates on sovereign debt. Plan B leads to greater cuts
:16:09. > :16:13.in the long term. Are you confident that pioneers working? I am apply
:16:13. > :16:20.any person, but not with any joy, and no one really knows how it is
:16:20. > :16:25.going to pan out. The Liberal Democrats should not be helping the
:16:25. > :16:35.Conservatives so much. The reason there is not much in Plan B is
:16:35. > :16:38.possibly, what is plan B? Labour need to tell us what they would do.
:16:38. > :16:46.Below loads of delegates have voted and it is clear there are singing
:16:46. > :16:51.from the same hymn sheet. Most people are in favour of planning.
:16:51. > :16:55.Like David Laws, the rank-and-file were on message for Plan A,
:16:55. > :16:59.although some without much enthusiasm. As if by magic, we get
:16:59. > :17:06.two for the price of one, the former Chief Secretary to the
:17:06. > :17:13.Treasury, David Lodge, and now we have his successor. -- David Laws.
:17:13. > :17:19.It is Danny Alexander. My worry is that I will not get a cigarette
:17:19. > :17:24.paper between the two of you. Let me try. Has Vince Cable ever
:17:24. > :17:27.suggested that he wants more capital spending? What we have
:17:27. > :17:32.discussed is what I have been describing today, how do we make
:17:32. > :17:37.sure that the capital spending we have set aside, which we prioritise,
:17:37. > :17:44.how do we make sure that happens on schedule? Bureaucracy often holds
:17:44. > :17:47.these things up in government and we cannot afford for that to happen.
:17:47. > :17:51.Can we use our spending more effectively to help the private
:17:52. > :17:56.sector and bring forward developments. The thing I announced
:17:56. > :18:01.on Sunday was a fund specifically aimed at unlocking local
:18:01. > :18:06.development sites that have been stalled. That is intelligent use of
:18:06. > :18:11.the money. We're committed to the spending plans we have set out
:18:11. > :18:16.because it is important to our nation's credibility. So it is
:18:16. > :18:22.fiddling, moving around the deck chairs, but not adding to the
:18:22. > :18:27.number of deckchairs? I am not sure I want to pursue the deck chairs
:18:27. > :18:32.analogy. It is in the context of the massive work going on in
:18:32. > :18:36.government to identify the things we can do to help economic growth.
:18:36. > :18:42.I would argue that our deficit reduction plan is the foundation of
:18:42. > :18:48.growth, but many things, like the regulation, the planning sector,
:18:48. > :18:53.these are all there to lift the productive potential of our economy.
:18:53. > :18:59.Words mean nothing if we cannot agree that that does not amount to
:18:59. > :19:04.a new deal style fiscal stimulus. It is not a fiscal stimulus, it is
:19:04. > :19:11.sticking within our existing spending plans. We're spending �700
:19:11. > :19:17.billion of public money this year. 50 % of GDP. Over the course of
:19:17. > :19:24.this financial period, 2.8 trillion pounds will be spent by government.
:19:24. > :19:29.We cannot spend �700 million and -- if we cannot spend �700 million and
:19:29. > :19:34.do some good, we need to try something else. He cannot comment
:19:34. > :19:39.because he is the Treasury minister, but you are not, should the Bank of
:19:39. > :19:43.England going for more quantitative easing? Provided we hold course on
:19:43. > :19:47.the deficit reduction plan, which is what we're going to do, if the
:19:47. > :19:52.economy remains weaker than we would like because of international
:19:52. > :19:57.pressures, the bank will be in a position to consider different
:19:57. > :20:00.sorts of quantitative easing. Particularly as we know that it is
:20:00. > :20:05.likely that the uncomfortable inflation we have had this year is
:20:05. > :20:12.likely to come back down next year, because the increase in food and
:20:12. > :20:17.energy prices will not feed through again. You can comment on this
:20:17. > :20:23.because you are a backbencher. Is it not inevitable that giving
:20:23. > :20:28.Greece's public debt is now heading for 200 % of its GDP, and the
:20:28. > :20:37.economy is declining by 6%, that Grease defaults as night follows
:20:37. > :20:41.day? I think that the fault is not the word I would use. -- a
:20:41. > :20:47.defaulting. The Eurozone governments need to come together
:20:47. > :20:50.with the Greek government to do two things. To have a serious strategy
:20:50. > :20:55.for deficit reduction in Greece and to look at where there the debts
:20:55. > :21:01.they have got, which are difficult to manage, can be re scheduled to
:21:01. > :21:05.make them bearable. How can you ask the Greeks to do more when as the
:21:06. > :21:10.schools went back last week they did not even have textbooks? We can
:21:10. > :21:15.ask them to deliver on the promises they may can be serious about that,
:21:15. > :21:21.and secondly, if they do those things they can expect assistance
:21:21. > :21:27.from the other EU governments, which could include re scheduling
:21:27. > :21:35.their dead so that the burden is bearable. If we put to march on
:21:35. > :21:40.Grease, we will create problems. You can answer this question but I
:21:40. > :21:43.am not sure that you will. When we will look at what is happening in
:21:43. > :21:49.the money markets, for the financial system to work, banks
:21:49. > :21:53.need to borrow from the wholesale market, then they lent to us. That
:21:53. > :21:58.is drying up in the way it did before the collapse of Lehman
:21:58. > :22:04.Brothers. The banks are not able to earn because they have Greek debt
:22:04. > :22:09.on their balance sheets. Are we not on the brink of another major
:22:09. > :22:14.financial meltdown? I would not necessarily draw those parallels
:22:14. > :22:17.myself but there is a lot of uncertainty in the market. That is
:22:17. > :22:23.fuelled by doubts about the ability of politicians to get to grips with
:22:23. > :22:28.the problems they have. People like it the United States and see the
:22:28. > :22:31.Congress and the President not been able to agree. People look at the
:22:31. > :22:39.Eurozone and see those governments not coming up with solutions as
:22:39. > :22:43.quickly as they need to. markets and are acting in a way...
:22:43. > :22:46.The reason why the markets are not lending money to the banks is
:22:46. > :22:52.because they see the politicians are not doing anything to sort the
:22:52. > :22:56.problem and that in itself will create a financial crisis. We need
:22:56. > :23:02.to see those steps taken in those countries. Are you nervous about
:23:02. > :23:06.the current situation? It is extremely challenging. It has a
:23:06. > :23:11.real effect on the economy of this country and people in every corner
:23:11. > :23:16.of the United Kingdom. That is why we're working with our partners in
:23:16. > :23:21.the Eurozone to encourage them to take steps that need to be taken,
:23:21. > :23:26.and make sure that each country does the right thing in terms of
:23:26. > :23:31.its own economic situation. It is not often you get two chief
:23:31. > :23:37.secretaries, one former and one current, so I have a quiz for you
:23:37. > :23:42.both. Who said in January 2009, printing money is the last resort
:23:42. > :23:52.to desperate governments when all other policies have failed? Was if
:23:52. > :23:53.
:23:53. > :23:58.you, Andrew. No. I need to spend more time listening to my
:23:58. > :24:07.colleagues' speeches! It is your current boss, George Osborne, the
:24:07. > :24:13.Chancellor. He said that printing money is the economics of Mugabe?
:24:13. > :24:17.think that was Vince Cable. You are correct. Do we have a bigger
:24:17. > :24:21.structural deficit than we thought, because the Financial Times report
:24:21. > :24:28.this week came out with a structural deficit of 12 billion
:24:28. > :24:31.more than what you calculations are based on? We set up an independent
:24:31. > :24:36.Office For Budget Responsibility to take the judgment of those things
:24:36. > :24:43.out of the hands of politicians. I will wait for their forecast rather
:24:43. > :24:47.than relying on speculation. was borrowing at a record in
:24:47. > :24:53.August? I thought you were meant to be cutting borrowing? You have been
:24:53. > :24:58.in power for 17 months and you had to borrow �16 billion in August.
:24:58. > :25:04.That has never happened in our history. There were special factors.
:25:04. > :25:08.The previous month, borrowing had been much lower than it had been
:25:08. > :25:15.the previous year. We have one of the largest deficits of any
:25:15. > :25:20.developed country. When we came into office, borrowing 150 billion,
:25:20. > :25:23.we're bringing it down this year. That is still greater than the cost
:25:24. > :25:31.of funding the entire National Health Service. This is why you
:25:31. > :25:37.think you have to bring it down? Correct. The target is 122 billion
:25:37. > :25:43.this year? Yes. That is what was set out. We are on target for this
:25:43. > :25:48.year. The Office For Budget Responsibility's calculations
:25:48. > :25:52.assumed a higher growth rate and we're currently experiencing, so
:25:52. > :25:57.are you not going to have lower tax rates and higher welfare payments
:25:58. > :26:03.to make? A inflation has an impact on those kind of cost, feeding
:26:03. > :26:10.through in future years. That is what the last will be are forecast
:26:10. > :26:14.showed. We will see what they came out with in November. -- the last
:26:14. > :26:20.Office For Budget Responsibility forecast. People need to have
:26:20. > :26:25.confidence in Britain's ability to pay off her debts. Would you like
:26:26. > :26:33.your old job back? Sadly, I think Danny Alexander is doing too good a
:26:33. > :26:37.job. When will we see you back in government? I do not know. I am a
:26:37. > :26:43.strong supporter of the coalition but we have very good ministers,
:26:43. > :26:49.including at the Treasury. You were a Business Secretary? If you were a,
:26:49. > :26:57.you would be more on message than the current one? Despite your
:26:57. > :27:00.mischief-making attempts, we have a very good Business Secretary.
:27:00. > :27:05.rank-and-file Want You Back, let's look at the audience. They are
:27:05. > :27:10.mostly journalists. I think they have come to see the current Chief
:27:10. > :27:16.Secretary. That is The Daily Politics audience. They have come
:27:17. > :27:24.here to see you today. Thank you to board if you for being such good
:27:24. > :27:30.sports and for being here on The Daily Politics. Let's go to Jo.
:27:30. > :27:35.It is time now for some hacks, not me, of course. There was a time
:27:35. > :27:40.that discussing leader trip troubles was as much part of party
:27:40. > :27:44.conferences as nursing a hangover. -- leadership troubles. Not that
:27:44. > :27:50.this one, everyone seems to be solidly behind Nick Clegg, but if
:27:50. > :27:58.that changes, how do you get rid of Liberal Democrat leader? Here is
:27:58. > :28:02.Giles. There are a number of circumstances
:28:02. > :28:07.that can provoke a Liberal Democrat leadership election and there are
:28:07. > :28:11.all covered in article 10 of the party's constitution. The triggers
:28:11. > :28:18.for such a contest are if the leader calls an election, such as
:28:18. > :28:22.Charles Kennedy did, or resigns, such as Menzies Campbell did, or
:28:22. > :28:26.resigns or dies or is incapacitated. That involves the leader but the
:28:27. > :28:34.only way for the party to force a leadership election is if there is
:28:34. > :28:39.a vote of no confidence colt by a majority of MPs are request for a
:28:39. > :28:43.leadership election by at least 75 local parties. You cannot just put
:28:43. > :28:49.your hat in the ring, you need at least 10 % of the parliamentary
:28:49. > :28:54.party to support you, 200 party members, and they have got to be
:28:54. > :29:01.from at least 20 different local parties. That is a lot of telephone
:29:01. > :29:05.bashing. But things are rosy-ish for the current leader. Bound
:29:05. > :29:09.though he is by being in a coalition with the Conservatives,
:29:09. > :29:17.which some Liberal Democrats do not like, it is unlikely for the time
:29:17. > :29:20.being that anyone will use these rules to challenge Nick Clegg.
:29:20. > :29:27.Charles reporting there. Keeping the company, we have Simon Hoggart
:29:27. > :29:30.from the Guardian and Andrew Pierce from the Daily Mail. Andrew, you
:29:30. > :29:34.could say that Nick Clegg has survived? There has not been a
:29:34. > :29:40.leadership challenge which is an achievement in itself? If you
:29:40. > :29:46.consider where the party was after the AV referendum, when they were
:29:46. > :29:52.crushed, a blow for her Nick Clegg's authority, it was a success
:29:52. > :29:59.for him. Byatt I am surprised he has not died of boredom this week
:29:59. > :30:03.because this has been uninteresting. Really? Yes, it is flat. The
:30:03. > :30:07.problem is that this conference hall is too big for the Liberal
:30:07. > :30:17.Democrats. They need a smaller venue because they are a small
:30:17. > :30:23.party. There is not a lot of policy in terms of announcements? No.
:30:23. > :30:28.know we should not say these things, but if Nick Clegg were to fall
:30:28. > :30:37.under the proverbial bus, who would replace him? It would be between
:30:37. > :30:44.Chris Huhne, and Tim Farron, the party president, who is a
:30:44. > :30:52.Lancashire lad. He said yesterday, the economy is barbered. I do not
:30:52. > :30:56.think he will fall under a bus. There would be a great dividing
:30:56. > :31:00.point between the Liberal Democrats and the Tories if that Nick Clegg
:31:00. > :31:06.had to go back and say, our people will not change their view on this
:31:06. > :31:11.one. People keep raising the subject of divorce, but if you do,
:31:11. > :31:21.your spouse may take the hint after a while. I think that is what Tim
:31:21. > :31:21.
:31:21. > :31:26.Isn't it a synthetic cardamom, marriage, divorce, distancing --
:31:26. > :31:30.synthetic argument? We sound like relationship counsellors. They are
:31:30. > :31:35.in a dysfunctional relationship because they loathe each other.
:31:35. > :31:39.all of them. A lot of it, or they want to beat the Tories when they
:31:39. > :31:43.campaign. It is an unlikely pressure, they have done incredibly
:31:43. > :31:46.well to keep it together and I think it will continue. Nick Clegg
:31:46. > :31:50.seems more relaxed at this conference, which is slightly
:31:51. > :31:54.bizarre, if you think the calculation when they came into the
:31:54. > :32:00.coalition was that fears of austerity, economic upturn and we
:32:00. > :32:08.will get back in next I -- a few years of austerity. What happens to
:32:08. > :32:16.the party? It is descending into Death Valley. I did gather a report
:32:16. > :32:24.of Nick Clegg smiling once. There is a whole website of Nick Clegg
:32:24. > :32:29.looking sad! That missing puppy that his children lost has not
:32:29. > :32:34.turned up yet. He reminds me of an exasperated headmaster with the
:32:34. > :32:36.recalcitrant school assembly. In the question and answers session he
:32:36. > :32:40.was tetchy with those Liberal Democrat members, because he wants
:32:40. > :32:43.to make this work and he is fed up with them complaining and moaning.
:32:43. > :32:47.He should talk to Vince Cable who complained and moaned all through
:32:47. > :32:55.his speech. Do you think that needs to change? Does there need to be
:32:55. > :32:58.more uplifting? Truth and honesty, it fair enough but you have to have
:32:58. > :33:03.something to be uplifting. You have to talk about the sunny uplands
:33:03. > :33:09.even if they are not going to happen. Every study of politics
:33:09. > :33:14.shows that it is the optimism that wins. Ronald Reagan it knew nothing
:33:14. > :33:23.about the role of government but he was an optimist. You need a smack
:33:23. > :33:30.of that. Why do you think Nick Clegg is more relaxed? Is it
:33:30. > :33:35.because they feel the rock bottom was tuition fees, that has gone,
:33:35. > :33:41.and the AV referendum was I think that is it. He has displayed what
:33:41. > :33:47.is called muscular liberalism. It is a way of trying to have a
:33:47. > :33:57.different narrative, he feels he has pitched it right and he is
:33:57. > :34:02.
:34:02. > :34:12.cheering up his activists. If you Conservatives watching this, will
:34:12. > :34:13.
:34:13. > :34:16.they be interested, will they be put off? You have the realists who
:34:16. > :34:20.might say, we have got to stick with these people, at least until
:34:20. > :34:23.the next election. You have the head bangers who are saying, these
:34:23. > :34:28.appalling people are holding us back from going Britain what it
:34:28. > :34:34.really needs. Whenever Paddy Ashdown specs, the conference is a
:34:34. > :34:39.little bit electrified. -- speaks. I don't think they're going to be
:34:39. > :34:47.excited this afternoon. Talking of excitement, you can have a badge.
:34:47. > :34:51.Which one would you like? I love mansion tax, Andrew Pierce? I think
:34:51. > :34:58.I will have don't panic. I have already pinched, I love the
:34:59. > :35:04.EU, but it is ironic! Is it? -- I love the euro. The Liberal
:35:04. > :35:09.Democrats used to La for the euro, it is very much in the past.
:35:09. > :35:13.used to love the euro. Has it been a good or bad year for the Liberal
:35:13. > :35:23.Democrats. Can you remember the ups and downs? This will jog your
:35:23. > :35:26.
:35:26. > :35:29.We confounded those who said that coalition government was impossible.
:35:29. > :35:34.The Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives are, and always will
:35:34. > :35:42.be, separate parties with distinct history is and different futures.
:35:42. > :35:46.But for this Parliament, we work together. To raise the cap on
:35:46. > :35:55.tuition fees is wrong. We will resist, vote against, campaign
:35:55. > :35:59.against any lifting of that cap. course, I feel really bad. It is
:35:59. > :36:03.one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do, to own up to
:36:03. > :36:06.the fact that I signed a pledge which I feel I can't deliver.
:36:06. > :36:11.Graduates should make some contribution for the benefit of
:36:11. > :36:14.going to university, the question is how. The road to Westminster are
:36:14. > :36:24.covered with the skid marks of different political parties
:36:24. > :36:27.
:36:27. > :36:31.changing direction on this issue. The waiting is over, this was to be
:36:31. > :36:36.the day of the cuts. The day when people would learn what they meant
:36:36. > :36:41.for their jobs, their pensions, to their services. Today is the day
:36:41. > :36:45.when Britain steps back from the brink. We are picking on the week
:36:45. > :36:49.is society -- you are picking on the week is people in this society
:36:49. > :36:52.and it is completely unfair, how you have applied this budget.
:36:53. > :37:02.the real world, the richest are paying the most. There is no doubt
:37:03. > :37:19.
:37:19. > :37:29.Getting up early, what I call a lot of Britain, working hard, we are on
:37:29. > :37:29.
:37:29. > :37:34.AV would be wrong for Britain. It is obscure, it is unfair, it is
:37:34. > :37:39.expensive. This is a campaign built on lies and a deeply personal
:37:39. > :37:44.attack on the Deputy Prime Minister. If you thought it was all over, it
:37:44. > :37:50.is now. By well over two to one, Britain voted not to change its
:37:50. > :37:55.This is a bitter blow for those people like me to believe in the
:37:55. > :38:00.need for political reform. We are seeing a repeat pattern of northern
:38:00. > :38:06.cities where the Liberal Democrats are losing not just one or two, but
:38:06. > :38:10.virtually all of their This is not the moment to embark
:38:10. > :38:16.upon the reorganisation of the most trusted public service in the whole
:38:17. > :38:20.of the United Kingdom. Pause. Listen. To reflect. We are not
:38:20. > :38:24.afraid to disagree, to have the debate and bring together the best
:38:24. > :38:30.of our ideas. You will see a strong liberal
:38:30. > :38:40.identity in a strong coalition government. You might even call it
:38:40. > :38:44.
:38:44. > :38:49.You can't smash a window and grabbed a BlackBerry, a pair of
:38:49. > :38:59.shoes, a T-shirt that you like the look of and sometimes you think you
:38:59. > :39:00.
:39:00. > :39:05.The idea that we are going to shift of focus to the wealthiest in the
:39:05. > :39:08.country when everyone is under pressure is cloud-cuckoo-land.
:39:08. > :39:12.is right to privatise the help to millions of people who need it the
:39:12. > :39:22.most, and not to a small minority of people who don't need as much
:39:22. > :39:29.
:39:29. > :39:33.help. In other words, the people at That was the year, and I am joined
:39:33. > :39:36.now by Lorely Burt, the chair of the Liberal Democrat party. We have
:39:36. > :39:41.seen that the party has been battered over the past year to some
:39:41. > :39:46.extent, by tuition fees, the drubbing at the local elections,
:39:46. > :39:51.the AV referendum. Are you in denial about the state of the party,
:39:51. > :39:54.Alan? No. One of the reasons that your previous commentator found it
:39:54. > :39:59.boring is that there is no great row or bust-up. For me, the
:39:59. > :40:04.highlight of the year was 5th April when 1 million people came out of
:40:04. > :40:07.income tax because Liberal Democrat policy had been carried out. People
:40:07. > :40:11.have things they want the coalition to do, but there are things they
:40:11. > :40:16.are delighted it has done. suppose I am thinking more about
:40:16. > :40:20.where the party is at. There may have been no big bust ups, but it
:40:20. > :40:25.is a sort of, we haven't got an alternative, cross our fingers,
:40:25. > :40:29.everyone is looking cheerful. Should they be? Yes, because they
:40:29. > :40:32.are doing what is right, supporting a party into coalition. We have
:40:32. > :40:36.been arguing that we should change our political system to one in
:40:36. > :40:41.which parties work together. you lost on the AV referendum, it
:40:41. > :40:44.is gone for a generation? We have a coalition now in the present system.
:40:44. > :40:50.The present system will deliver governments that do not have a
:40:50. > :40:54.majority, that have to form coalitions. The old loyalties to
:40:54. > :41:01.the old parties have dissipated and it is a much more fluid politics.
:41:01. > :41:06.This conference has been all about differentiation. We have heard that
:41:06. > :41:10.word endlessly. But the latest poll says 68% of the public don't know
:41:10. > :41:16.what Nick Clegg stands for, that is a big problem. We have always been
:41:16. > :41:20.branded as, the nice Liberal Democrats. That is because you were
:41:20. > :41:23.never in powerful top yeah, we like to vote for you but we are not sure
:41:23. > :41:27.what you stand for. -- that was because you're never in power
:41:27. > :41:33.before. Now they know that we are standing for working for the good
:41:33. > :41:40.of the country. That is a very broad thing. What is it that Nick
:41:40. > :41:46.Clegg stands for? Fairness, improving the tax system, so that
:41:46. > :41:51.the least well are able to pay benefit most. He stands for green
:41:51. > :41:55.ness, the Green Bank, we are going to be the greenest government ever.
:41:55. > :42:03.We have restored the earnings link, we have done so many things since
:42:03. > :42:06.we have been in government. suppose the issue of the green tax
:42:06. > :42:11.is a number one concern, energy prices, these are not things that
:42:11. > :42:14.people support. Energy prices are rising, not because of things that
:42:14. > :42:18.we are putting into place but because of what is happening
:42:18. > :42:24.elsewhere in the world. We have got to take action to get our own
:42:24. > :42:28.economy, based on our own energy. Lorely Burt has listed the
:42:28. > :42:32.achievements, why is the party at rock bottom? Doldrums in the polls,
:42:32. > :42:36.popularity at the bottom. If you have done so much wonderful stuff,
:42:36. > :42:40.why aren't you doing better? We had to take difficult decisions which
:42:40. > :42:44.involved cutting back on things we would prefer not to do. The tuition
:42:44. > :42:49.fees decision is one we would not have chosen to make. We are in a
:42:49. > :42:53.much worse financial position than we expected. We have produced a
:42:53. > :42:57.fair position for people on lower incomes. We have a message to
:42:57. > :43:01.deliver to people. In a conference like this, the coverage will start
:43:01. > :43:07.to tell people what we stand for. Do you agree with Vince Cable that
:43:07. > :43:11.it is time for a stand at -- time for a stimulus? We already
:43:11. > :43:18.delivering a stimulus, we can't increase the amount we are spending
:43:18. > :43:24.over and above what we do. We could see the Bank of England putting
:43:24. > :43:29.more money into the economy, the famous quantitative easing. Vince
:43:29. > :43:34.Cable can't say that sort of thing publicly. What about a stimulus,
:43:34. > :43:37.what about growth? Do you agree with Vince Cable, even if what he
:43:38. > :43:42.said isn't going to happen? Would you like to see more money come in
:43:42. > :43:51.now? I would love to see more money, but we haven't got the money. So
:43:51. > :43:56.much of it is going on redressing If we don't get that right, we
:43:56. > :44:00.asked daft as a country. Name one thing you would like to see the
:44:00. > :44:05.Liberal Democrats claim credit for in the rest of this Parliament --
:44:05. > :44:10.we are staffed as a country. fairness agenda. Meaning what?
:44:10. > :44:15.Fairness to pensioners... What specific policy would you like to
:44:15. > :44:21.see? I would like to see more to do with... My area is business. I
:44:21. > :44:25.would like to see fairness between working people and companies as
:44:25. > :44:31.well, giving companies what they need to be able to grow, but
:44:31. > :44:34.insuring people get their fair rewards as well. The 50p tax rate,
:44:34. > :44:43.shouldn't the Liberal Democrats be more worried about what happens at
:44:43. > :44:47.the other end rather than at the We are not going to touch the 50p
:44:47. > :44:50.tax rate and less, and until we have raised the threshold for
:44:50. > :44:57.people on low incomes, and found better ways of making sure the
:44:57. > :45:03.richest people pay their share. Take a bad, what would you like? --
:45:03. > :45:07.take a badge. I love high-speed rail. That would bring a great
:45:07. > :45:17.economic stimulus to the West Midlands, so I will take this on.
:45:17. > :45:20.
:45:20. > :45:24.back the coalition. What a loyalist Party members have been taking part
:45:24. > :45:29.in an emergency debate on the NHS. It is probably fair to say that
:45:29. > :45:35.Nick Clegg has taken a bit of a pasting by some of the speakers.
:45:35. > :45:39.Listen to this. He has done an enormous amount of work, as have
:45:39. > :45:45.many in our parliamentary party to get these concessions, but we
:45:45. > :45:51.should never have been made in the first place, Nick Clegg should not
:45:51. > :45:56.have put his name to it because it was not what we agreed. Nick Clegg
:45:56. > :46:01.has had massive publicity saying that no one would be able to make a
:46:01. > :46:07.profit out of our children's education. But what I do not
:46:07. > :46:13.understand is why eight days or Kate... Sorry, why is it not OK to
:46:13. > :46:20.make a profit out of our children's education, but it is OK to make a
:46:20. > :46:24.profit out of our bad health? For my real concern, speaking to people
:46:24. > :46:28.in the youth and children's sector is the impact of this at the sharp
:46:28. > :46:34.end, the fragmentation of services which will have an impact on
:46:34. > :46:40.children. How many more children will end up being taken into care
:46:40. > :46:43.or even been a missed, like Baby P? I am worried that we are
:46:43. > :46:49.fragmenting services that are so important for every single one of
:46:49. > :46:56.us. That is not about party politics, but about why we came
:46:56. > :47:03.into politics, caring for our nation. Let's get the thoughts of a
:47:03. > :47:09.man who apparently, party president, Tim Farron, wants to be like when
:47:09. > :47:15.he grows up. I speak of the deputy leader, Simon Hughes. Who do you
:47:16. > :47:21.want to be when you grow up? Do not say Tim Farron. I think I am past
:47:21. > :47:27.thinking about this. But these health reforms, they are not
:47:27. > :47:31.popular with your members? How did you end up down this road? There is
:47:31. > :47:39.a simple answer, and there is a lot of work to do on the bill in the
:47:39. > :47:42.Lords. Our members there are clear about that. I thought the party
:47:42. > :47:50.leadership wanted to close that down, you had your rebellion in
:47:50. > :47:55.March? No, what we did not want was a full-scale debate to open up
:47:55. > :47:59.everything. To answer your first question, how we are here, this was
:47:59. > :48:05.not a Bill that came from the coalition agreement. It seemed to
:48:05. > :48:08.surprise everybody, including David Cameron. That may be true but I
:48:08. > :48:14.have no problem of following the coalition agreement that was
:48:14. > :48:19.negotiated. But the Forestry thing, that was another thing that came
:48:19. > :48:24.that was not negotiated. But we now have good procedures in place, we
:48:24. > :48:29.now have a system that unless something was in our manifest or
:48:29. > :48:33.the coalition agreement, we will only supported if the parliamentary
:48:33. > :48:39.party considerate and vote in favour. That is our safeguard for
:48:39. > :48:45.the country. A colleague -- at colleagues of yours, Andrew George
:48:45. > :48:49.MP, he says that will allow support the coalition I want to do my best
:48:49. > :48:55.to save the NHS from what I believe may be a catastrophic train crash
:48:55. > :49:01.which I believe may take the party with it. Is he representative?
:49:01. > :49:09.There are people that share his view. Let me get this clear, the
:49:09. > :49:16.argument over the health reforms is by no means over? It is not over.
:49:16. > :49:20.We made it clear at our conference in March, and the bill was stopped.
:49:20. > :49:25.Large numbers of amendments were put in at committee stage and
:49:25. > :49:31.report stage. It has gone to the House of Lords and there are some
:49:31. > :49:35.significant things that need to be done, in my view. I believe that
:49:35. > :49:40.because our Piers are clear about that... Gave me the most
:49:40. > :49:45.significant change you want to see? We need to tie down the private
:49:45. > :49:53.work of the NHS, so that they cannot become the dominant or
:49:53. > :49:58.financial practical activity. It's are you still suspicious of private
:49:58. > :50:04.activity in the NHS? We have got to make sure it cannot become the
:50:04. > :50:09.driver of any part of NHS activity. That is very interesting. We will
:50:09. > :50:14.keep an eye on that in the weeks ahead, when Parliament comes back.
:50:14. > :50:21.On the broader picture of your party, you lost the AV referendum
:50:21. > :50:26.in style, voting reform is probably off the agenda for regeneration,
:50:26. > :50:31.your last 700 seats in local government, you are 11 % in the
:50:31. > :50:35.opinion polls, less than half what you wear at the election, the
:50:35. > :50:40.students hate you and the economy is in the tank, what has been the
:50:41. > :50:44.good news this year? You can lay cat one side of the picture. We had
:50:44. > :50:51.a difficult six months from November, I know that we handled
:50:51. > :50:57.tuition fees badly. I was clear about that at the time. And you are
:50:57. > :51:03.right, the referendum was not a great success. Since then we have
:51:03. > :51:06.started picking up seats at local government level. One or two. John
:51:06. > :51:12.Major used to tell me how many local government seats he was
:51:12. > :51:18.winning and I think he lost by 160 seats. I am trying to compare
:51:18. > :51:22.before and after. We have been taking up supporters and donors,
:51:22. > :51:32.and most importantly we have been taking upper mac position in the
:51:32. > :51:37.
:51:37. > :51:41.opinion polls. I have seen 13 %. -- our position. We need to make sure
:51:41. > :51:47.that our economy does not go the way of the States and the other
:51:47. > :51:51.major economies. This city will not see manufacturing on its feet again
:51:51. > :51:55.if the whole economy is not under control and that is why we have got
:51:55. > :51:58.to be tough about that. You have heard that there will be an
:51:58. > :52:05.acceleration of the end it is putting activity back into the
:52:05. > :52:08.economy. Not a stimulus, and acceleration of existing plans?
:52:08. > :52:16.Absolutely. Transport infrastructure needs to be brought
:52:16. > :52:24.forward. As soon as there is the capacity we can do it. Do you think
:52:24. > :52:29.that this song that you have been singing is representative? We have
:52:29. > :52:37.a leader who has hung as out to dry. He made us a break air pledge, but
:52:37. > :52:45.we will stick with him because we loved him, because we love him.
:52:45. > :52:55.That was nearly a wrap, Andrew. that what date has come to? He hung
:52:55. > :52:59.
:52:59. > :53:09.a side to dry. The official Lib Dems song book. -- hung us out to
:53:09. > :53:10.
:53:10. > :53:15.dry. Have you not heard of Satar? We are joined by Nick Robinson. We
:53:15. > :53:19.have got the speech but we're not allowed to speak about the contents
:53:19. > :53:24.because it is under embargo. What do you think about it? It is an
:53:25. > :53:29.argument rather than a series of policy announcements. Does he try
:53:29. > :53:36.and says here are some new things I am unveiling, does he try and say,
:53:36. > :53:41.let me give you a vision of where we will be in 2015, to chew you up,
:53:41. > :53:46.or does he have an argument? I think that is basically what he
:53:46. > :53:55.will be doing. Without breaking the embargo, the phrase he will be
:53:55. > :54:00.using his, it is not easy, but it is right. Many people once loved
:54:00. > :54:05.him, Cleggmania, but the hard decisions were the right decisions.
:54:05. > :54:09.In a sense, his key argument to the country is that the Government is
:54:09. > :54:14.fair because Liberal Democrats are at the heart of it. He will say
:54:14. > :54:18.that is worth keeping. Is this an unusual speech in the sense that
:54:18. > :54:23.the messages the same for the party faithful in the hall and the wider
:54:23. > :54:28.audience watching at home. Sometimes they have got to give two
:54:28. > :54:32.messages? There are parts of the speech that will be significant in
:54:32. > :54:37.the hall which I suspect will not naked in two television reporter
:54:37. > :54:42.the newspapers, and in them he will say to his party it is not good
:54:42. > :54:48.enough to carry on being the opposition. The party was used to
:54:48. > :54:58.being the opposition for years. There is a danger that he continues
:54:58. > :55:02.to be the opposition party in government. His message to the
:55:02. > :55:06.people that think that, is that you can stand up on health, but you
:55:06. > :55:11.need an agenda for what you positively want to do, not what you
:55:11. > :55:16.want to stop. The mood of this conference has been quite upbeat.
:55:16. > :55:22.Is that because you are naturally an optimistic party are totally in
:55:22. > :55:27.denial? Neither of those things. thought my kit had to be one or the
:55:27. > :55:33.other. The options before me are not those. It is a serious
:55:33. > :55:38.conference. It is a serious conference for serious times by a
:55:38. > :55:42.serious party. Make Robinson made the point, quite rightly, that
:55:42. > :55:47.we're going to be judged on whether we have delivered and it is a five-
:55:47. > :55:51.year plan. It will last for the whole of five years. We knew that
:55:51. > :55:57.the first couple of years would be difficult and we have taken some
:55:57. > :56:01.heads, but it is no good going back. You have got to keep scoring
:56:01. > :56:06.Liberal Democrat victories, taking poor people lighted tax, and we
:56:06. > :56:12.will go on, within the coalition, tilting the Government away from
:56:12. > :56:16.what it would have been if it was Tory only, to a fairer outcome, so
:56:17. > :56:21.that we have recovery but it is fair because we are there.
:56:21. > :56:25.important thing is that what the Liberal-Democrats have done by
:56:25. > :56:30.coming first is that they have tried to tilted in the other
:56:30. > :56:33.direction. There will be Conservative MPs at their
:56:33. > :56:40.conference next week he will say that we do not like that killed
:56:40. > :56:46.very much. Let's get our own party leadership to bring it back, and
:56:46. > :56:49.Europe, tax cuts, crime, and this conference may cheer up Liberal-
:56:49. > :56:56.Democrats but it will also mean that there are Tories that say we
:56:56. > :57:01.are in for a fight. The good news for the country is that on the key
:57:01. > :57:06.issues there is an agreement. We need to stick to it. On law and
:57:06. > :57:12.order and Europe? There is no consensus on that? There is
:57:12. > :57:18.consensus. Even on stimulus, you seem to be divided. There has been
:57:18. > :57:22.a very pragmatic view on Europe taken by the Prime Minister. It is
:57:22. > :57:27.important that the Eurozone survives because we do 40 % of our
:57:27. > :57:31.business over the water. Ipsos MORI have introduced some new things
:57:31. > :57:39.from the opinion poll at the weekend. The Liberal Democrats are
:57:39. > :57:47.now seen as the most divided of the three men -- the three main Lidl --
:57:47. > :57:52.the three men national parties. This is the legacy of the tuition
:57:52. > :57:56.fees debate. That has clouded all sorts of things. In the end we
:57:56. > :58:00.tried to explain that we were not the Government on our own and the
:58:00. > :58:05.Tories did not agree with us. We could not win that argument
:58:05. > :58:10.internally. In terms of being divided, the political researchers
:58:10. > :58:15.have said over the last few years that we are the most united. The
:58:15. > :58:18.job has to be to make sure that this Government has things that
:58:18. > :58:26.matter to Liberals and Liberal Democrats. The answer is a fairer
:58:26. > :58:36.Britain. We have 10 seconds. It is a lot more cheaply than we thought
:58:36. > :58:36.
:58:36. > :58:46.my cake would be. Let's give them credit. We have to go for the
:58:46. > :58:48.
:58:48. > :58:51.moment. We will be back at 2:30pm. Not to o'clock, 2:30pm, for live