:00:20. > :00:26.Afternoon, folks. From the last day of the French Socialist Party
:00:26. > :00:29.Conference on the Cote D'Azur... Actually it is the last day of the
:00:29. > :00:34.British Labour Party Conference here in Liverpool. But the weather
:00:34. > :00:37.has turned it into the Cote de Mersey. And Ed Miliband, by turning
:00:37. > :00:46.his back on the Blair-Brown, may find he ends up closer to the
:00:46. > :00:49.mainstream of continental socialism than New Labour ever was. That is
:00:49. > :00:55.the view in Liverpool this morning, where the Labour Party Conference
:00:55. > :00:58.is winding down. Within the hour, the party's deputy leader, Harriet
:00:58. > :01:04.Harman, will close the conference with what everyone hopes will be a
:01:04. > :01:11.rousing speech. Expect the red flag flying, tears, emotion and some
:01:11. > :01:14.hugs. We will be reviewing Labour's year with Alan Johnson, the former
:01:14. > :01:21.Home Secretary. He never actually turned up to this conference but we
:01:21. > :01:24.tracked him down. And do you know Ed Miliband appeared to have no
:01:24. > :01:33.idea this morning, even though he is tipped to be the next Labour
:01:33. > :01:39.leader in Scotland. He is called Ken MacIntosh. And that's not all.
:01:39. > :01:42.Jo is in London. And away from the conference centre, there is
:01:42. > :01:46.continued trouble in Euroland. The German parliament have just voted
:01:46. > :01:48.to approve an increase in the size of the euro bail out fund. But our
:01:48. > :01:51.Foreign Secretary has called the eurozone a burning building without
:01:51. > :02:01.exits and the Deputy Prime Minister warned that the crisis could cause
:02:01. > :02:05.
:02:05. > :02:10.the EU itself to rupture. So is Yes, all that coming up in the next
:02:10. > :02:13.hour of public service broadcasting at its finest. Actually it is the
:02:13. > :02:16.only public service broadcasting that covers the last day of the
:02:16. > :02:22.Labour Conference, which has been visibly wilting since Mr Miliband
:02:22. > :02:24.spoke on Tuesday afternoon. Most delegates, three quarters of the
:02:24. > :02:30.Shadow Cabinet and every single hack except for me, has hot-footed
:02:30. > :02:33.it out of Liverpool. Just why Labour drags its conference on till
:02:33. > :02:35.Thursday is one of the great mysteries of British politics,
:02:36. > :02:45.especially since both other main national parties manage to end on
:02:46. > :02:46.
:02:46. > :02:53.Anyway who would want to miss Hattie's address? Certainly not the
:02:53. > :03:03.couple of Labour bloggers we have assembled for your delectation. Dan
:03:03. > :03:09.
:03:09. > :03:13.Hodges from Labour Uncut and Mark Give me your overview of this
:03:13. > :03:19.conference. Ed Miliband is facing some criticisms about lack of
:03:19. > :03:24.direction, lack of strategy. He has dealt with that. We know who he is.
:03:24. > :03:31.He has pitched and self as a Liberal intellectual. You know what
:03:31. > :03:36.his strategy is. We know what his strategy is. He is going to take on
:03:36. > :03:41.the British establishment on behalf of the British people. I think that
:03:42. > :03:47.is a completely suicidal electoral strategy. Give him credit.
:03:47. > :03:52.think all that. You do not think it is the right thing to do. No. He
:03:52. > :03:57.had had a debate and discussion about where the middle ground is.
:03:57. > :04:02.Ed Miliband attempted to articulate where it was in his speech on
:04:02. > :04:05.Tuesday. The general consensus is that where Ed Miliband and those
:04:05. > :04:10.around him see the middle ground resting is not whether British
:04:10. > :04:16.people see it resting. That is his problem. Her what is your take on
:04:16. > :04:23.it? This has been an average conference. The Poles will have
:04:23. > :04:27.hardly shifted at all. We have gained nothing. We have not lost
:04:27. > :04:34.much. Someone said to me yesterday, we're all in quite a good mood but
:04:34. > :04:41.we do not know why. I think a lot of us a slightly wondering why we
:04:41. > :04:47.are here. Not just you but never mind. Let's move on quickly over
:04:47. > :04:51.that. Let me maybe bring down your ambition and say that one thing has
:04:51. > :04:59.been achieve. I am not sure the wider public has a better idea who
:04:59. > :05:03.Ed Miliband is that your party has. That is part of the problem. The
:05:04. > :05:09.whole mood of the conference and his speech was pitched very much at
:05:09. > :05:13.the Labour Party. When we arrived in Liverpool, everyone was clear
:05:13. > :05:21.about what Ali -- Ed Miliband needed to do. He needed to start to
:05:21. > :05:26.connect with the electorate. I take slight issue. I think people will
:05:26. > :05:32.start to look at him and have greater clarity about who Ed
:05:33. > :05:40.Miliband his in the wider public. As I said, I am concerned about his
:05:40. > :05:45.political position. Is he what the public wants? We you go along with
:05:45. > :05:52.what the Labour Party is saying about moving to a clear left-wing
:05:52. > :05:57.anti-establishment position? -- Will you go along? He does not seem
:05:57. > :06:02.very anti-establishment to me. is a former Treasury special
:06:02. > :06:09.adviser. He is part of the Establishment himself. This will
:06:09. > :06:16.take some work, at the very least. For me, I am not sure what they
:06:17. > :06:20.take away from this. Would I go not to -- what was the key message from
:06:21. > :06:30.this conference? There is a lot of mood music but not a key message
:06:31. > :06:34.
:06:34. > :06:44.was dubbed we have a couple of Labour bloggers reverse. -- with us.
:06:44. > :06:48.
:06:48. > :06:53.It is Liverpool, it is Labour. The task of Ed Miliband was to
:06:53. > :07:03.establish himself as a character with his movement. Who is this guy
:07:03. > :07:05.
:07:05. > :07:12.Miller Band? I am not only Blair. - - Tony Blair. That line went down
:07:12. > :07:17.really well. He had a reasonably successful afternoon. Only David
:07:17. > :07:23.Cameron could believe that you make ordinary families work harder by
:07:23. > :07:32.making them poorer and you make the rich work harder by making them
:07:32. > :07:40.richer. It is the wrong priority. It is based on the wrong values.
:07:40. > :07:44.How dare they say we are all in it together? Of course if Ed Miliband
:07:44. > :07:50.is to establish a relationship with the people he will have to make
:07:50. > :07:53.friends with the media. We had this speech from Ivan Lewis.
:07:53. > :07:59.industry should consider whether people guilty of gross malpractice
:07:59. > :08:06.should be struck off. In other words, any journalist misbehaving
:08:06. > :08:11.him or herself could be banned. Oh dear! That is me to the knacker's
:08:11. > :08:21.yard. I would just speak to the police to make sure they are OK
:08:21. > :08:26.with that sentence. And now to the sport. Who is that portly fellow?
:08:26. > :08:32.He tackles pretty low in politics as well, they say. His speech was
:08:32. > :08:37.toying with the idea of an apology but a politician like Ed Balls was
:08:37. > :08:45.never going to find that easy. they so we make mistakes in
:08:45. > :08:48.government, they are right. A 75p pension rise was a mistake, so was
:08:48. > :08:53.the abolition of the 10 pence tax rate. We did not do enough to get
:08:53. > :08:57.employers to train the work falls. We should have adopted tougher
:08:57. > :09:03.controls on migration from Eastern Europe. We did not spend every
:09:03. > :09:06.pound of public money well. We did not regulate the banks toughly
:09:06. > :09:11.enough and stop the gross irresponsibility here in Britain
:09:11. > :09:17.and all around the world. If we do not pay off the deficit now it will
:09:17. > :09:23.be left to future generations. Lo and behold up one popped, a 16-
:09:23. > :09:29.year-old from Maidstone. The home I lived in since birth was
:09:29. > :09:34.repossessed. We had no money and savings. I owe my entire well-being
:09:34. > :09:41.to the welfare state. That welfare state is being ripped apart by a
:09:42. > :09:47.vicious and right wing led Tory government. We later learned he was
:09:47. > :09:52.not such a son of a proletariat. He had been to private school and his
:09:52. > :09:57.dad was a property developer. He is a face of tomorrow. Where are the
:09:57. > :10:02.faces of the past? No Tony Blair, no Peter Mandelson, no Gordon Brown,
:10:02. > :10:08.not even John Prescott. It is as though these security fences have
:10:08. > :10:16.been designed to keep New Labour out. Oh well! Manchester next and
:10:16. > :10:20.the Tories. See you there. Quentin Letts giving us his view. He makes
:10:20. > :10:24.a point that a lot of the names of faces that have been ubiquitous at
:10:24. > :10:34.Labour conferences since you were in short trousers were not further
:10:34. > :10:38.
:10:38. > :10:45.share. There have been a lot of new ones. -- were not there. He made an
:10:45. > :10:54.impromptu address without notes during the week. Also Yvette Cooper.
:10:54. > :10:59.She has emerged, it Ed Miliband were to fall under a bus, she would
:10:59. > :11:09.come up head and shoulders as the next leader. I would have to agree
:11:09. > :11:13.on Yvette Cooper. Taking over from her husband? I think the burning
:11:13. > :11:18.question is, whether she once said and how much she wants it? If she
:11:19. > :11:25.wants it, it is hers. She was not in the mix last time but she would
:11:25. > :11:32.be next time. Who has had a bad week? Without question Ed Miliband.
:11:32. > :11:40.The last year he has successfully managed to remove the badge of Red
:11:40. > :11:46.Ed and then said, I am Red Ed now. Now we are going to have to see
:11:46. > :11:54.over the next few weeks him a tempting to cleanse his name.
:11:54. > :12:03.not think he came out as Red Ed, I think he came out as A blue ed. He
:12:03. > :12:08.has adopted a blue agenda. Every senior figure tells you something
:12:08. > :12:13.different. We are very confused. A Shadow Cabinet reshuffle looks to
:12:13. > :12:23.be around the corner. He has the power to have on board who he wants,
:12:23. > :12:25.
:12:25. > :12:32.rather than he the MPs vote for. think we're going to see Chuka
:12:32. > :12:38.Umunna in the Shadow Cabinet. one of the up and coming... And may
:12:38. > :12:44.be some more women. I think there will need to be some rebalancing. I
:12:44. > :12:50.quite like Stella but at think it is a bit early. We have a present
:12:51. > :12:56.on the Daily Politics. We have some Tesco bourbon creams from hazel
:12:56. > :13:01.Blears. She said I hope these keep you going next week. You might need
:13:01. > :13:10.something to make you smile. Being generous, I am not taking them to
:13:10. > :13:20.the Tories, I'm going to share them here. Have one of these and one of
:13:20. > :13:22.
:13:22. > :13:31.these. Which batch would you like? -- badge. Very well, excellent.
:13:31. > :13:34.Where are the biscuits for us? On their way. I am sending them down.
:13:34. > :13:37.Politicians here in Britain may be busy enjoying themselves at their
:13:37. > :13:39.respective conferences but out in the real world Europe is facing
:13:39. > :13:42.financial meltdown. In an interview in the Spectator magazine, the
:13:42. > :13:45.Foreign Secretary, William Hague, repeated his claim that the euro
:13:45. > :13:48.was like a burning building with no exits. In order to try to find a
:13:48. > :13:53.way out of the crisis, German Chancellor Angela Merkel has just
:13:53. > :13:57.the EU's main bailout fund called the European Financial Stability
:13:57. > :14:00.Facility. This was overhauled back in July and consists of a
:14:00. > :14:03.commitment to boost bail out guarantees to 440 billion euros,
:14:03. > :14:10.the hope being that it will be enough to calm the markets and help
:14:10. > :14:15.However, many commentators have argued that given the current
:14:15. > :14:17.climate much more will be needed in the long run. Also this week, the
:14:17. > :14:21.eurozone countries agreed a deal that would see private lenders
:14:21. > :14:24.write off 20% off their loans to Greece, although it is believed a
:14:24. > :14:29.plan to allow Greece to default on around 50% of its debt is on the
:14:29. > :14:32.cards. Yesterday the head of the European Commission Manuel Barroso
:14:32. > :14:38.warned that Europe was facing its greatest challenge but said he
:14:38. > :14:40.believed Greece would stay in the Eurozone. However, Nick Clegg will
:14:40. > :14:43.later today warn European governments that the EU would
:14:43. > :14:49.rupture if the eurozone countries make decisions without consulting
:14:49. > :14:52.governments outside the single currency. I am joined now from
:14:52. > :15:02.Strasbourg by the Conservative MEP, Daniel Hannan, and here in the
:15:02. > :15:02.
:15:02. > :15:11.studio by Katinka Barysch of the Does this mean the end of the
:15:11. > :15:15.crisis for Germany, Katinka Barysch? Certainly not. And it does
:15:15. > :15:20.not mean the end of the euro crisis, either. The real debate is about
:15:20. > :15:24.what we're going to do next. It is about having a bigger bail-out fund.
:15:24. > :15:27.And it certainly is not the end of the political debate in Germany,
:15:27. > :15:32.how much Germany wants to make available to help its neighbours,
:15:32. > :15:36.what is Germany's new role in the European Union? It seems everyone
:15:36. > :15:40.sees Germany as the powerhouse of Europe, and that they have to lead
:15:40. > :15:46.the way, and there has been criticism that Angela Merkel has
:15:46. > :15:50.tracked her feet - how do you think she has handled the crisis? She has
:15:50. > :15:54.handled it in a very Angela Merkel kind of way. She has never been a
:15:54. > :15:57.leader, she has always been cautious. In the beginning, we
:15:57. > :16:01.liked her forehead. She was good at knocking heads together but she was
:16:01. > :16:06.never a leader. The Germans have very little post-war experience of
:16:06. > :16:13.leadership. The entire post-war period has been one of just neatly
:16:13. > :16:17.fitting into European integration and NATO. And all of a sudden they
:16:17. > :16:23.find themselves in this leadership situation, and it is slow, it is
:16:23. > :16:27.awkward, they're to slow to do this. They are trying to catch up. Is it
:16:27. > :16:31.right that the Germans should be the ones, bearing in mind they are
:16:31. > :16:37.doing better, economically, should they not be the one has to lead the
:16:37. > :16:40.bail-out? But they are paying the most, and they are trying to lead
:16:40. > :16:43.from the front. It is not as if they are not trying. They are not
:16:43. > :16:48.doing as well as the commentators and the markets would like them to
:16:48. > :16:52.do. But they are trying to do what is feasible for them, financially
:16:52. > :17:02.and politically. This vote today in the Bundestag is just one more step
:17:02. > :17:03.
:17:03. > :17:13.in a much longer journey. Thank you for joining us, Daniel Hannan. What
:17:13. > :17:16.
:17:16. > :17:19.do you think should happen now? do you think should happen now?
:17:19. > :17:23.Katinka Barysch just said, the crisis has already moved on. The
:17:23. > :17:29.talk now is of expanding the available resources to this almost
:17:29. > :17:33.incredible amount of two trillion Euros. And this is going to be done
:17:33. > :17:40.by borrowing. We are treating the debt crisis with a massive increase
:17:40. > :17:46.in debt. Two questions immediately a rise - first of all, who are
:17:46. > :17:49.guarantee an amount that large? The answer on paper is the ECB. But the
:17:49. > :17:54.European Central Bank has been buying up so much junk debt that it
:17:54. > :17:59.is almost a Bag bank already, by definition. So, the reality
:17:59. > :18:03.standing behind this new debt other taxpayers of Greece, Italy, Spain,
:18:03. > :18:10.Ireland, Portugal, in other words, that the tours are the same as the
:18:11. > :18:15.guarantors. Where are we going to get two truly Euros from? -- the
:18:15. > :18:25.debtors are the same as the guarantors. I suppose, what would
:18:25. > :18:31.
:18:31. > :18:35.the alternative be, that's the question? Surely any alternative
:18:35. > :18:40.would be even worse to borrowing even at these high interest rates,
:18:40. > :18:45.because it would cost more in the long run? That's not correct. The
:18:45. > :18:48.metaphor you used is interesting. The way to prevent contagion is
:18:48. > :18:52.through quarantine. But the European Union is doing the
:18:52. > :18:55.opposite, taking the finances of perfectly healthy countries and
:18:55. > :18:59.degrading them by making them liable for the loans of other
:18:59. > :19:05.countries. The alternative is to let each country pursue its own
:19:05. > :19:08.monetary policy, determined by its own conditions. Clearly it is in
:19:08. > :19:13.the interest of these countries to be able to price their way back
:19:13. > :19:17.into the market. The only reason why this is not happening is
:19:17. > :19:20.because people are trying to save face, because they have got so much
:19:20. > :19:25.tied up politically in the euro project, and they are expecting the
:19:25. > :19:28.people to pay an extraordinary price for it. What do you say, that
:19:28. > :19:35.now is the time to draw the line, we should not be throwing good
:19:35. > :19:39.money after bad? That's a very interesting point. I just spent
:19:39. > :19:44.this morning with a Greek analyst and university professor, who made
:19:44. > :19:48.the point to me very clearly, that he and the majority of the Greek
:19:48. > :19:53.people do not actually believe that leaving the euro is a solution to
:19:53. > :19:57.their problems. 66% of the Greeks do not want to leave the euro. Then,
:19:57. > :20:01.they would have to massively default both on public and private
:20:01. > :20:07.debt. You cannot repay massive debts and devalue the currency at
:20:07. > :20:13.the same time. What about the other countries, do we care enough about
:20:13. > :20:17.what happens to Greece? Obviously, the Greek austerity programme now
:20:17. > :20:20.has become counter-productive, in the sense that it is straining the
:20:20. > :20:26.economy, you cannot squeeze any more tax money out of an economy
:20:26. > :20:29.that is shrinking for four years in a row. But what is right is that
:20:29. > :20:34.Greece and some other European countries have to implement the
:20:34. > :20:39.reforms, and the same applies to Germany in that respect. But these
:20:39. > :20:43.are long-term programmes. The big problem that we have at the moment
:20:43. > :20:47.is, how do we keep the euro together, so that we can implement
:20:47. > :20:49.the long-term plans? I do not believe for one second that
:20:49. > :20:57.splitting up the euro is the solution for the structural
:20:57. > :21:03.problems that we have. And nor does Nick Clegg, Daniel Hannan - he has
:21:03. > :21:07.said that we Shand shoulder to shoulder with the eurozone. He even
:21:07. > :21:11.went as far as to say that actually they should not be making
:21:11. > :21:21.agreements within the eurozone which do not include us outside. He
:21:21. > :21:21.
:21:21. > :21:24.says we have to stick together... suspect that Nick Clegg, an old
:21:24. > :21:30.friend of mine, is auditioning for his next job as the British nominee
:21:30. > :21:37.to the European commission. You're not the first person to say that.
:21:37. > :21:40.prosperous and stable countries on our doorstep. The euro takes 40% of
:21:40. > :21:44.our exports, it is plainly in our interests to have other countries
:21:44. > :21:47.growing. That is not the same as keeping the euro going. When it
:21:48. > :21:51.becomes clear that the price of keeping the euro together is
:21:51. > :21:54.permanent deflation, poverty and immigration for the southern
:21:54. > :21:57.countries, and Permanent World countries for the northern
:21:57. > :22:01.countries, so that both lots are growing more slowly than they
:22:01. > :22:05.otherwise would, is not in our interests. They should not send us
:22:05. > :22:08.the bill for that, either. We have no interest in such a policy.
:22:08. > :22:17.briefly, what about this transaction tax that has been
:22:17. > :22:20.talked about, the Tobin tax? What is your view on that?
:22:20. > :22:24.transaction tax would raise something like 50 billion euros, of
:22:24. > :22:27.which something like 40 billion euros would be coming from London.
:22:27. > :22:37.In other words, we're being stuck with the bill to prop up the
:22:37. > :22:42.
:22:42. > :22:46.currency which we declined to join. Both of you, thank you very much.
:22:47. > :22:52.It started last year in Manchester, and ended in Liverpool. David was
:22:52. > :22:56.fancied, but in the end, it was Ed, rebuilding the party after a
:22:56. > :23:00.disastrous election defeat. How did the new leader measure up, and how
:23:00. > :23:10.well is he suited to the job? We asked former Cabinet Minister Alan
:23:10. > :23:17.
:23:17. > :23:21.# They seek him here, they seek him there.
:23:21. > :23:27.# He has got to buy the best, because he's a dedicated follower
:23:27. > :23:31.of fashion. Refashioning the Labour Party was
:23:31. > :23:34.never going to be easy for Ed Miliband - taking on the worst job,
:23:34. > :23:38.Leader of the Opposition, at the worst time, just after an election
:23:38. > :23:44.defeat, and in the worst possible circumstances, after beating his
:23:44. > :23:49.brother. Isn't the biggest favour that David Miliband can do to the
:23:49. > :23:54.Labour Party to end this psychodrama? This is no psychodrama.
:23:54. > :23:58.I came in on Saturday planning a slightly different week. I'm now
:23:58. > :24:02.thinking what I'm going to do instead. But it is measuring up to
:24:02. > :24:07.be a pretty good year for Labour. Party membership is increasing, we
:24:07. > :24:17.are ahead in the polls, we had some notable successes in the local
:24:17. > :24:19.
:24:20. > :24:24.elections, and so far, we have won # Oh, yes he is. OK, so, we were
:24:24. > :24:28.stitched up in Scotland, and unfortunately for Ed, and for me,
:24:28. > :24:32.the alternative vote did not suit the public. But despite the party
:24:32. > :24:38.being split on the referendum, it did not damage the leader. In other
:24:38. > :24:43.areas, Ed has bravely decided to do what he thinks is right. For
:24:43. > :24:47.example, scrapping Shadow Cabinet elections, and making it clear that
:24:47. > :24:52.he wants to change the rules for electing the party leader. In
:24:52. > :24:55.respect of policy, Ed probably made life difficult for himself by
:24:55. > :25:02.supporting the graduate tax and a blank sheet of paper probably
:25:02. > :25:06.wasn't the best phrase to use. But this early in any parliament, no
:25:06. > :25:11.opposition leader wants to pick policies off the peg, and Ed isn't
:25:11. > :25:18.your typical party leader, forever chasing headlines. But the last 12
:25:18. > :25:21.months have really been all about the cuts. Ed has been very clear
:25:21. > :25:31.that we have to cut out koitt according to our cloth. But
:25:31. > :25:37.sometimes that message has been lost. Our job is to fight and
:25:37. > :25:43.preserve the things that we value... In parliament, aide is up against a
:25:43. > :25:45.consummate performer, in David Cameron. Today, we learn that the
:25:45. > :25:50.Foreign Secretary describes his gang as the children of Thatcher.
:25:50. > :25:56.would rather be a child of Thatcher than a son of Brown. Whilst he has
:25:56. > :25:59.taken some hits, he has also had some notable successes. He was
:25:59. > :26:05.statesmanlike on Libya, he was strong on issues like cancer
:26:05. > :26:08.sufferers, DNA, and of course, the hacking scandal, and David
:26:08. > :26:15.Cameron's decision to hire Andy Coulson. He has got to accept that
:26:15. > :26:21.he made a catastrophic error of judgment by bringing Andy Coulson
:26:21. > :26:25.into the heart of his Downing Street machine. On reflection, I
:26:25. > :26:33.think aide has had a good year. On personal issues, he has got a new
:26:33. > :26:37.wife, a new baby, a different nose, and a brother less strange than he
:26:37. > :26:42.seem to be a year ago. I think Ed Miliband has done extremely well,
:26:42. > :26:52.and I think he will grow in confidence and in stature as his
:26:52. > :26:53.
:26:54. > :26:56.That was Alan Johnson, part of the old guard, really. I'm now joined
:26:57. > :27:03.by three bright young things - at least that's what it says on the
:27:03. > :27:08.script. I'm talking about Gloria De Piero, John Woodcock and Lisa Nandy.
:27:08. > :27:12.You all got elected last year for the first time. Let's see what you
:27:12. > :27:18.make of it. His Ed Miliband right not to say that New Labour has one
:27:18. > :27:22.out of steam, we need to build something new? What I'm really
:27:22. > :27:27.pleased about his hearing Ed Miliband talk about things which
:27:27. > :27:31.people want to talk to me about on the doorstep. So, New Labour, and
:27:31. > :27:35.current Labour, whatever you want to call it, it is about being on
:27:35. > :27:39.the side of the decent, hard- working majority of people. Ed has
:27:39. > :27:42.said this week, the people at the top, some of those people have been
:27:42. > :27:46.top, some of those people have been scoring people. But also, people
:27:46. > :27:50.say to me, that guy around the corner, I'm hurting at the moment,
:27:50. > :27:54.but he's taking benefits, and he does not seem to want to work. It
:27:54. > :27:57.is about being on the side of the majority. You would have to
:27:58. > :28:00.conclude that New Labour did not do any of that, which is why you're
:28:00. > :28:05.any of that, which is why you're having to start again. The New
:28:05. > :28:10.Labour project, as it was, led by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, was
:28:10. > :28:13.unquestionably the right thing for its time. And the level of
:28:13. > :28:18.electoral success which it brought, and the changes it brought to
:28:18. > :28:22.Britain, were hugely significant. But we are now in 2011. Ed was
:28:22. > :28:26.right to say that I'm policy programme has got to move on, and
:28:26. > :28:32.we have got to read direct the challenges that we know that we
:28:32. > :28:37.need to face, so that in 2015, or whenever the election is, we're
:28:37. > :28:42.putting forward policies which matter to the future of the country.
:28:42. > :28:45.A from understand that New Labour had one out of steam, all political
:28:45. > :28:48.projects run out of steam, Thatcherism ran out of steam, the
:28:48. > :28:52.collective consensus after the Second World War over and out of
:28:52. > :28:56.steam. But given that New Labour was electorally very successful for
:28:56. > :29:03.you, and some former ministers would say, successful for the
:29:03. > :29:07.country, I do not understand why you want to draw a line under it.
:29:07. > :29:11.Because we saw an amazing amount of investment into some of the poorest
:29:11. > :29:15.communities in this country. I saw some of that on the front line,
:29:15. > :29:18.working with children in my previous job. But we also saw an
:29:18. > :29:22.alarming growth in inequality. What Ed was saying on Wednesday was that
:29:22. > :29:25.we did not do enough to create a level playing field, so that those
:29:25. > :29:28.people who are genuinely trying to do the right thing are getting the
:29:28. > :29:32.help that they need from the government. This government is not
:29:32. > :29:36.doing that. It is actively going out and destroying people's lives
:29:36. > :29:46.through the decisions that they are taking. Ed was saying, we urgently
:29:46. > :29:52.
:29:52. > :29:57.You constantly changing and update. You start a new revolution. He is
:29:57. > :30:02.so that it is going to be a new revolution. The basic principle of
:30:02. > :30:06.New Labour was that we look out that the country are not into
:30:07. > :30:11.ourselves. We understand the challengers. That is at the heart
:30:11. > :30:17.of what the run to do under the leadership of Ed Miliband. He is
:30:17. > :30:27.not budging. He has said that clearly. Do not think it is a moved
:30:27. > :30:29.
:30:29. > :30:35.to the left? -- do you not? Politicians have said it is a move
:30:35. > :30:41.to the left. Ed Miliband said he is not budging from the centre ground.
:30:41. > :30:48.I think it is a move to where people are. When I knock on doors
:30:48. > :30:52.around Wigan Dom they talk to you about producer and editor companies.
:30:52. > :31:00.They say they're not getting support from the Government or a
:31:00. > :31:06.decent deal from the banks. It is too easy for people to be undercut.
:31:06. > :31:10.They want a better deal and a leather -- level playing-field.
:31:10. > :31:15.is now saying that immigration did undercut people's wages but he is
:31:15. > :31:21.not going to do anything about it. He is saying that he is on the side
:31:21. > :31:27.of strivers and he does not want people to be doing nothing if they
:31:27. > :31:31.can work. You are never going to out to the coalition on welfare
:31:31. > :31:37.reform. We have to be really tough on setting the right conditions
:31:37. > :31:42.which help and cajole people off benefit and into work. We did make
:31:42. > :31:47.very significant progress in government. They need to do much
:31:47. > :31:54.more. What was the significant progress? In 90 until seven you
:31:55. > :32:00.started with 5 million people of working age out of work. -- 1997.
:32:00. > :32:04.The financial crisis that hit come up which knocked this economy and
:32:04. > :32:12.economies across the world, is going to take a very significant
:32:12. > :32:17.effort to recover from. It showed that the financial industry,
:32:17. > :32:23.unchecked, was not operating in the long-term interests of the British
:32:23. > :32:28.economy. We have been absolutely clear we should have done more. The
:32:28. > :32:31.Conservatives were arguing for us to regulate less. The lesson from
:32:32. > :32:37.that is that governments should not be neutral on the kind of economy
:32:38. > :32:47.we want to build and the kind of growth we want to support in our
:32:47. > :32:55.communities. A quick word from you. The hardest point in politics is to
:32:55. > :33:05.workout where Peter macro is. not sure where that is. We do not
:33:05. > :33:09.
:33:09. > :33:16.have much time. We are still in Liverpool. There is no script, this
:33:16. > :33:23.is all and lip. They're cheering a Lib Dem councillor who has joined
:33:23. > :33:28.Labour. Tell us why you go on to Thursday. He ate his Giles. We have
:33:28. > :33:32.done policy, we have done leadership. -- here is Giles was
:33:32. > :33:37.dug should the leader's speech be the last event of conference? Made
:33:37. > :33:42.it or leave it. The leader's speech is the big thing and the way
:33:42. > :33:48.everyone goes. They go home and go, what was that about the game? What
:33:48. > :33:55.we take to our party? What to be tell on the doorstep. What sound
:33:55. > :34:05.bites to ride take? I think it helps. Which you leave it or move
:34:05. > :34:18.
:34:18. > :34:24.I think there is a big build up to the leader's speech. You need time
:34:24. > :34:32.to absorb what has been said and discuss it. I think it would be
:34:33. > :34:36.better at the end for those attending conference. Ed Miliband,
:34:36. > :34:45.today's Daily Politics made box is, should you move your speech to the
:34:45. > :34:51.last event of conference? Send them home with basing. I am happy it is
:34:51. > :35:01.out of the way. We have two dozen members of the public coming to
:35:01. > :35:02.
:35:02. > :35:08.talk to us. You can relax a bit. -- 2000. It is not just about the
:35:08. > :35:17.leader telling us what he thinks it is about policy. The party leader
:35:17. > :35:22.can listen as well as speak. speech cliffs every ruddy up. --
:35:22. > :35:26.lifts everybody up. You should end on a big high note. That is a
:35:26. > :35:30.speech from the leader. We are not getting quite so many people
:35:30. > :35:38.involved. Not because they do not like the question that because they
:35:38. > :35:42.are not so many around. That lets you know why maybe move it is
:35:42. > :35:49.winning. So, the last day of the conference, but there is a clear
:35:49. > :35:56.message coming from the managers of the party with our mood box today.
:35:56. > :36:01.They would move the leader's speech to the last day. That was Giles.
:36:01. > :36:05.They are giving another cheer to the Lib Dem who has joined Labour.
:36:05. > :36:15.Let's deal with the big issues of our time. Should the leader's
:36:15. > :36:21.speech be on the last day? I would not mind considering it. There
:36:21. > :36:25.probably is an argument for looking after it. It is worth thinking
:36:25. > :36:33.about. I am not sure the fever- pitch excitement from journalists
:36:33. > :36:40.would build up all week if we let it go on a Tuesday. What do you
:36:41. > :36:44.think? I would move it. That speech injects a sense of energy in the
:36:44. > :36:54.conference. It is a chance to respond to what he has been told
:36:54. > :36:55.
:36:55. > :36:59.throughout the week. Having members of the public here has been a great
:36:59. > :37:04.change. Ed Miliband, did he performed better in the question
:37:04. > :37:11.and answers session and he did in his speech? I found him engaging in
:37:11. > :37:19.both. I was really moved by the speech. Which one? In terms of the
:37:19. > :37:26.way the media has written it up... Yesterday was more successful but I
:37:26. > :37:32.thought it was a good speech. brilliant in the way he is engaging
:37:32. > :37:37.with the public. He is one of those rare politicians who listens to
:37:37. > :37:45.people. He has asked me to do a Daily Politics Q&A special with a
:37:45. > :37:51.live audience. We are considering it. High point of the week?
:37:52. > :37:59.speech. Low point? The couple are people who booed Tony Blair. High
:37:59. > :38:05.point? Yvette Cooper putting across The Record we have had in
:38:05. > :38:10.government. Low-point? We have got to show to the public, looking at
:38:10. > :38:16.this, that the most successful leader we have ever had is not
:38:16. > :38:24.something that we should be going. The Tony Blair think the stock
:38:24. > :38:32.higher point? Inspirational head teacher introducing Andy Burnham
:38:32. > :38:35.yesterday. Low-point? No low-point. Love it. Your leader could not name
:38:35. > :38:45.the candidates for the Labour these should contest in Scotland. Can
:38:45. > :38:51.
:38:51. > :38:58.you? Ken, Joanne and Tom. There we go. Can you name the three of them?
:38:58. > :39:07.What I say is they have is Tom Harris, there is Duran Lamont and a
:39:07. > :39:12.third candidate. -- Duran. Ken Macintosh is the front runner. He
:39:12. > :39:19.will be an excellent candidate. guess when you get it wrong it is
:39:19. > :39:26.best to admit it, isn't it? Miliband is a human being. Have you
:39:26. > :39:36.ever forgot and a name? I have not, Georgina! So, you enjoyed the
:39:36. > :39:38.
:39:38. > :39:43.conference anyway? Yes. What a great city Liverpool is! The Labour
:39:43. > :39:46.government has transformed the docks. Have you ever answered the
:39:46. > :39:51.question and not tried to make a party political point? When your
:39:51. > :40:01.mum says come up with two white meat or fish for dinner? Do you say,
:40:01. > :40:05.I will have meet because under Labour beach house got bigger? --
:40:05. > :40:15.the cows. Harriet Harman is just about to start speaking. We will
:40:15. > :40:19.
:40:19. > :40:26.give you some highlights before we go off air in 20 minutes. Back to
:40:26. > :40:33.London. I had two people with me who sneaked out early. Welcome to
:40:33. > :40:40.both of you. Can I start with you? You work with Tony Blair. The cheer
:40:40. > :40:46.went up went Ed Miliband said, I am not only Blair. How did you feel?
:40:46. > :40:51.It disgusted me. -- Tony Blair. Ed Miliband should have said, whatever
:40:51. > :40:59.you think about Tony Blair and the Iraq will, he won more elections
:40:59. > :41:03.than any Labour leader in history. Afterwards, a lot of people... I
:41:03. > :41:10.think at the time people did not know what to do. How could you
:41:10. > :41:15.respond? It was a badly phrased speech. It was. He paused as if
:41:15. > :41:21.something should have happened. Miliband was mortified by it
:41:21. > :41:28.afterwards. He was, absolutely. He went to say, I am not only Blair, I
:41:28. > :41:34.am not Gordon-Brown, I am my own man. -- Tony Blair. There has been
:41:34. > :41:40.a lot of talk about the shift to the left. What were you left with?
:41:40. > :41:45.I was left with a sense of frustration. Talking about
:41:45. > :41:49.responsibility. It is the right questions to ask. The credibility
:41:49. > :41:55.is not there. What he needed to in his speech was get his fiscal
:41:55. > :42:01.credibility back. He said he would not have done every single cup the
:42:01. > :42:06.Government did. It makes him look like a weak leader. The other big
:42:06. > :42:09.problem is a lot of the other suggestions, the stuff about good
:42:09. > :42:16.businesses and bad businesses, it reminds me of the times when they
:42:16. > :42:21.were in opposition. It is not taking them anywhere. Tuition fees
:42:21. > :42:26.and a graduate tax... It looks like, or they would do is spend lots of
:42:26. > :42:34.money and run up a lot of debts again. In terms of what Ed Miliband
:42:34. > :42:40.had to do, here you raise the issue of the predator issues, it has been
:42:40. > :42:46.talked about extensively. Maybe the mood music was, that people did not
:42:46. > :42:50.think it was the greater speech ever. You talk about the squeezed
:42:50. > :42:56.middle, some of the concepts were there. The most interesting
:42:56. > :43:01.response to that speech was from the Daily Mail. It said the speech
:43:01. > :43:08.touched a chord with many ordinary Britons. That is what he was aiming
:43:08. > :43:13.to do - raised, in a sense... In my view, the middle classes are doing
:43:13. > :43:18.really badly at the moment. They have no political party to express
:43:18. > :43:25.what they want. The coalition are going to take away child benefit
:43:25. > :43:35.from double and a couples. Ed Miliband is Beijing himself towards
:43:35. > :43:37.being the party of the organised working class and the angry middle
:43:37. > :43:42.classes. That is a fairly positive note. In terms of, we have got
:43:42. > :43:49.another three years, there is a long time to go, isn't there? Quite
:43:49. > :43:55.a long time to go to stage yourself to that point. Now we know there is
:43:55. > :44:00.a fixed Parliament. He has some problems. People do not think he is
:44:00. > :44:05.a Prime Minister character. People cannot see him in the job. People
:44:05. > :44:09.are cynical about politics. The problem with his speech was, you
:44:10. > :44:14.knew he was not going to be able to do a lot of the things he was
:44:14. > :44:19.promising so, in that sense, he was making the problem worse. He has
:44:19. > :44:24.said he wants to get energy bills down. People really care about that.
:44:24. > :44:31.Then he says, because of climate change energy bills will have to go
:44:31. > :44:36.up. It is kind of not credible. That reinforces the worst fears of
:44:36. > :44:40.people about politicians. It does not make him look like a leader.
:44:40. > :44:44.What you think the state of the Labour Party years at the moment?
:44:44. > :44:49.It has clear direction. The Shadow Cabinet have to fill out the
:44:49. > :44:55.details of that. The Labour Party is waking for a break through.
:44:55. > :45:00.Since the coalition, Labour has gone up to 39% in the polls. It
:45:00. > :45:06.needs to go up over 40%. Ed Miliband needs to make a connection
:45:07. > :45:16.with the public. That has been said with some of the addresses about
:45:17. > :45:18.
:45:18. > :45:26.the squeezed middle. Thank you both In a moment we will be speaking to
:45:26. > :45:29.the Shadow Communities Secretary, schadenfreude. But first, let's see
:45:29. > :45:35.what Harriet Harman has been saying to the party faithful before they
:45:35. > :45:42.leave the conference. Our thoughts are with them and
:45:42. > :45:46.their families. We have heard this week about the process of renewal
:45:46. > :45:51.under way in Scottish Labour, and I would like to pay tribute to Iain
:45:51. > :45:59.Gray. His passionate speech at this conference shows he is the Best
:45:59. > :46:04.First Minister Scotland never had. APPLAUSE This week we have had a
:46:04. > :46:07.sharp focus on our campaign for the Greater London assembly and for
:46:07. > :46:12.Mayor of London. What does Tory Boris Johnson stand
:46:12. > :46:17.for? Higher fares for Londoners, lower tax for bankers. Let's face
:46:17. > :46:27.it, Boris is in it for himself, Labour's Ken Livingstone is in it
:46:27. > :46:35.
:46:35. > :46:38.for London. And we say, yes, we Ken. The spirit and enthusiasm of labour
:46:38. > :46:42.has run throughout this conference. We go forward with the new
:46:42. > :46:47.supporters' Network, a more powerful role for local councillors,
:46:47. > :46:51.the historic decision, a first for any political party in this country,
:46:51. > :46:57.to always have a woman in the leadership team, the brilliant
:46:57. > :47:01.innovation of Jim Murphy, to have Labour friends of the forces, and a
:47:01. > :47:07.stronger voice for young people in our party. And we have heard many
:47:07. > :47:10.of those voices this week. Many of them have been at our conference
:47:10. > :47:16.for the first time, some as young as 16, speaking with such
:47:17. > :47:21.conviction. With the Tory-Lib Dem attack on the Future Jobs Fund, on
:47:21. > :47:26.EMA, on tuition fees, the Government have hit the prospects
:47:26. > :47:36.for young people, but young people are hitting back. We have seen here,
:47:36. > :47:43.
:47:43. > :47:47.this week, the dynamic, a new It would like to say a huge thank
:47:48. > :47:51.you to Ray Collins, our very own blond bombshell. He stepped into
:47:52. > :48:01.the role of general secretary at a really difficult time. He stepped
:48:02. > :48:02.
:48:02. > :48:12.up to the plate, with tremendous passion for the party. Ray. He has
:48:12. > :48:12.
:48:12. > :48:16.built a firm foundation for the future. I would like to give a big
:48:16. > :48:20.thank you to everyone who has worked so hard to make everything
:48:20. > :48:24.this week go like clockwork - the party staff and volunteers, the
:48:24. > :48:34.porters and the stewards, our own Red Army. Thank you very much
:48:34. > :48:38.
:48:38. > :48:41.This week has been a turning point. Aide has shown his bold and
:48:41. > :48:45.optimistic vision of the future. We have challenge the unspoken
:48:45. > :48:49.orthodoxies which have governed Britain for too long, and we have
:48:49. > :48:59.we founded on party, so that we can be a force which changes people's
:48:59. > :49:12.
:49:12. > :49:20.Harriet Harman bringing the conference to an end. Not quite the
:49:20. > :49:25.end yet, because there will be a bit of music. While we watch these
:49:25. > :49:30.pictures, we have got filmic instant in here with us. Have you
:49:30. > :49:33.enjoyed the conference? Yes, it has been great. We have done a lot to
:49:33. > :49:38.encourage people for standing for next year's local elections. It has
:49:38. > :49:42.been a good conference. Reading the comments about this so-called
:49:42. > :49:49.Shadow Cabinet reshuffle, I cannot work out whether you're going to be
:49:49. > :49:54.fired or promoted. I really do not know. What is your instinct? You're
:49:54. > :50:01.so busy, you do not actually see much of the news. I just try to do
:50:01. > :50:06.the best job I can, Andrew. I have very much enjoyed doing my brief on
:50:06. > :50:15.this. It has given me the opportunity to think about how we
:50:15. > :50:19.reconnect with our local government base. They're singing the Red Flag,
:50:19. > :50:29.an old Labour tradition, which I think Mr Blair would have liked to
:50:29. > :50:29.
:50:29. > :51:28.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 59 seconds
:51:28. > :51:32.have got rid of, if he was still # And did those feet, in ancient
:51:32. > :51:42.time. # Walk upon England's mountains
:51:42. > :51:47.
:51:47. > :51:57.# And was the Holy Lamb of God. # On England's pleasant pastures
:51:57. > :52:01.
:52:01. > :52:11.seen. # And did the countenance divine
:52:11. > :52:38.
:52:38. > :52:48.shine for upon our clouded hills. # Bring me my bow of burning fire.
:52:48. > :52:51.
:52:51. > :52:55.The Labour conference coming to an end with the traditional singing of
:52:55. > :53:00.Jerusalem, after A&E at the Red Flag. Of course, they have to hand
:53:00. > :53:05.out the words to the Red Flag these days. Just in case, people are a
:53:05. > :53:14.bit tired at the end of the week. Many people think Jerusalem should
:53:14. > :53:17.be England's national anthem, not Britain's. I suppose we're
:53:17. > :53:22.expecting a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle, because for the first
:53:22. > :53:27.time, the Labour leader has the power to choose his or her own
:53:27. > :53:30.Shadow Cabinet. Exactly. I think that has been an important
:53:30. > :53:35.transition in the last year. If you look back at what has been
:53:35. > :53:38.significant for Ed, that is up there. He made the decision that
:53:38. > :53:43.that was what he wanted to do, and brought the party with him. It
:53:43. > :53:46.helps him define himself, and what sort of team he wants. Are you
:53:46. > :53:51.comfortable with the direction of the party, in the sense that it is
:53:51. > :53:56.not saying, New Labour has run out of steam, it is time to inject new
:53:56. > :54:00.life for a new era, but saying, New Labour is over, and we're going to
:54:01. > :54:05.start something new? I'm not sure it is saying that. I just think
:54:05. > :54:10.about what it meant to me, when I got involved and the party. For me,
:54:10. > :54:14.it was always about the Labour Party getting itself to a place
:54:14. > :54:18.where it could reflect modern aspects of our lives, but still
:54:18. > :54:22.holding on to the principles which we built our party on. I don't
:54:22. > :54:26.think that has changed. But we have to move on. The problem was that
:54:26. > :54:31.New Labour was so associated with two individuals, and we cannot
:54:31. > :54:37.allow that to capture us for the rest of time. It is about moving
:54:38. > :54:41.forward, but dealing with the challenges of today and tomorrow.
:54:41. > :54:46.Are you not open to the criticism of your opponents that it
:54:46. > :54:50.represents a clear move to the left? Mr Miliband does not talk
:54:50. > :54:55.about the market economy any more. He talks about the centre, but he
:54:55. > :54:59.implies that the centre has moved left, to him. I don't think it is
:54:59. > :55:04.about moving to the left. I look at Yvette Cooper's speech on law and
:55:04. > :55:07.order. We are defending things like DNA records, CCTV, police numbers.
:55:07. > :55:12.I have talked about changing the way in which we allocate social
:55:12. > :55:16.housing, to make sure that working people on low incomes get a shot.
:55:16. > :55:20.Those incomes have been supported by Ed. But there are some
:55:20. > :55:24.challenges which we have to face up to. The financial system, we did
:55:24. > :55:28.not regulate it well enough. And there have been concerns over the
:55:28. > :55:31.past few years about parts of business, and how it operates.
:55:31. > :55:36.There are some good examples of businesses which develop their work
:55:36. > :55:39.force and work with communities. There are others, for example,
:55:39. > :55:43.businesses which go into liquidation, having not paid their
:55:43. > :55:46.business rates, leaving their staff without any wages, and then they
:55:46. > :55:52.can just start up again under another name. It is talking about
:55:52. > :55:56.the bad practices, but in doing that, we are not anti-wealth or
:55:56. > :56:01.anti-enterprise. Yvette Cooper was here in this very seat yesterday,
:56:01. > :56:09.and I put it to her that the riots had happened under a Conservative
:56:09. > :56:12.coalition, but the rioters, most of them were Labour's children. You're
:56:12. > :56:17.the shadow Communities Secretary, where were you during the riots?
:56:17. > :56:25.was away, but when I came back, I went to visit Lewisham, Croydon and
:56:25. > :56:31.Birmingham, to talk to people. Should you have had a higher
:56:31. > :56:35.profile? I think Ed wanted Yvette Cooper to handle it because it was
:56:36. > :56:41.very much a policing issue in the first instance. The follow-up was
:56:41. > :56:46.how the councils responded. But just to say something about your
:56:46. > :56:50.point about, these are our children, I think in terms of some of these
:56:50. > :56:54.cases, the rot set in long before that. We did not have riots in
:56:54. > :56:59.Doncaster, but we are still suffering from the loss of coal
:56:59. > :57:03.mining, and families with unemployment across the generations.
:57:03. > :57:07.And there are issues around families in London and elsewhere
:57:08. > :57:11.where that is the case. But it does not excuse the fact, when I went to
:57:11. > :57:15.Croydon, I was being told this was not the young people of Croydon, it
:57:15. > :57:19.was organised criminals taking advantage of the situation. Thank
:57:19. > :57:27.you very much. We have got a lot of work to do, or you have got a lot
:57:27. > :57:31.of work to do, to get this across to the country. Of course, we earns
:57:31. > :57:36.them seats in May, but I think the direction is good. We have just got
:57:36. > :57:38.to make sure that the way we communicate it, and the way we talk
:57:38. > :57:47.about practical policies going forward, strikes a nerve with the
:57:47. > :57:53.public. That's it from our live coverage of the Labour Party
:57:53. > :57:56.conference of 2011 AD. I will say that again, AD. Ed Miliband has
:57:56. > :58:04.signalled a break with the past, but he has yet to colour in the
:58:05. > :58:09.future. Labour leaves Liverpool now, facing a long and winding road
:58:10. > :58:13.ahead. We leave Liverpool, too. But not before thanking the city and
:58:13. > :58:17.its people for their magnificent Conference Centre, and the warmth
:58:17. > :58:22.and the quality of their hospitality. We look forward to the
:58:22. > :58:28.next time. Our coverage does not finish here. Giles is back tonight,
:58:28. > :58:30.with the usual round-up programme, on BBC Two. He's doing that because
:58:30. > :58:40.on BBC Two. He's doing that because I'm over on BBC One this week, with
:58:40. > :58:44.
:58:44. > :58:50.Michael Portillo, Alan Johnson, and many mam Alvin Hall, and the legend