:00:29. > :00:31.Afternoon. Welcome to this Daily Politics special, live from the
:00:31. > :00:35.Tory Party conference, here in Manchester, where it's the final
:00:35. > :00:41.day of the conference. For the first time, there's a sense of
:00:41. > :00:44.excitement. Last night, the Prime Minister's spin masters briefed the
:00:44. > :00:48.media that David Cameron will use his speech this afternoon to tell
:00:48. > :00:53.us to pay off our credit card debts. The newspapers and broadcasters, as
:00:53. > :00:59.you have no doubt seen, duly reported that this morning.
:00:59. > :01:03.That buzz before new revised figures for economic growth
:01:03. > :01:08.downgraded estimates. The British economy has not grown for nine
:01:08. > :01:14.months. So the cry went up, if the economy is flat-lining, what would
:01:14. > :01:19.happen if we all stopped spending to pay off our debts? Do you
:01:19. > :01:22.remember Brains in the Thunderbirds? He used to say,
:01:22. > :01:27."Aaahhh! Of Course! Why didn't I think of that before?". Queue the
:01:27. > :01:33.spinners to el us that the media have -- tell us that the media miss
:01:33. > :01:37.understood what they were briefed. They have gone back to the drawing
:01:37. > :01:43.board to replan what he has to say in a couple of hours. As I say,
:01:43. > :01:49.excitement and turmoil. Mr Cameron delivers his speech against the
:01:49. > :01:53.grimmest economic backdrop since the mid-1970s. It turned out the
:01:53. > :01:59.recession is deeper than thought. We lost 7prst of our national
:01:59. > :02:04.wealth, not -- 7% of our national wealth, not 6%. Italy's credit
:02:04. > :02:09.rating has been cut again as the eurozone hovers on the brink of
:02:09. > :02:13.recession and crisis. Even Tescos sales have dropped.
:02:13. > :02:17.Last year the Prime Minister told this conference that Britain was
:02:17. > :02:21.out of the danger zone. He won't be repeating that this afternoon. We
:02:21. > :02:31.will look back at the highs and lows of David Cameron's first year
:02:31. > :02:32.
:02:32. > :02:37.in advance of his big speech. And that's not all... It east such an
:02:37. > :02:43.important -- it's such an important day that even Jo has had to hot-
:02:43. > :02:48.foot it to Manchester. I could not stay away. We sent Adam out to test
:02:48. > :02:52.the mood on the coalition. Not everyone likes their partners in
:02:52. > :02:56.crime. We sent Quentin Letts out. He has not been a happy bunny in
:02:56. > :03:02.Manchester. We have not been able to take the cameras into the bars
:03:02. > :03:06.late at night. The lobbying, oh, I tell you, if the voters and if the
:03:06. > :03:16.viewers of Britain knew what went on at these events they would be
:03:16. > :03:18.
:03:18. > :03:24.You have to stay tuned for that. It is coming up in the next hour.
:03:24. > :03:31.There's more, we'll be back at 2pm this afternoon here on BBC Two with
:03:31. > :03:38.live and uninterrupted, at least we hope it will be uninterrupted David
:03:38. > :03:43.Cameron's speech. Two of the finest, the Guardian's
:03:43. > :03:48.Allegra Stratton and Iain Martin. What do you make of all of this -
:03:48. > :03:53.pay off your credit card, the Prime Minister says? It is chaotic. It
:03:53. > :04:01.may not end up in the speech. If you talk to the Osborne team about
:04:01. > :04:05.why don't you do a tax cut, they will say, "hang on we don't want a
:04:05. > :04:09.recovery that is on the backs of people spending more money,
:04:09. > :04:14.consuming more stuff." That was the problem of the economy under Blair
:04:14. > :04:20.and Brown. They are economically pure. They think if we start...
:04:20. > :04:25.Everyone is talking about the paradox of thift. If you look at
:04:25. > :04:28.the figures, people are paying down their credit cards. When they talk
:04:28. > :04:33.about paying down the debt, it's the Government that's not paying
:04:33. > :04:38.down the debt. It will go from 900 billion to 1.4 trillion. So the
:04:38. > :04:42.Government is telling us to pay off its debt while the Government is
:04:42. > :04:47.adding 500 billion to its own debt - is that the position we're in?
:04:47. > :04:52.Absolutely. They came to this conference needing to lay out a
:04:52. > :04:57.serious agenda for growth. They have failed on that. Figures have
:04:57. > :05:05.been put out which show if people paid off the credit card debt there
:05:05. > :05:10.would be a slash to growth of 0.25%. I think they didn't think it
:05:10. > :05:17.through. They are obsessed with this credit card analogy. They
:05:17. > :05:25.think that is how they've got through to the public, this
:05:25. > :05:29.otherwise difficult an algae has made it -- analogy. They went too
:05:29. > :05:34.far with this, and pay off your store card thing. They were shocked
:05:34. > :05:42.when all the journalists seized on it as the story. So, do you think
:05:42. > :05:49.that the two peas -- Ps were bigger than the two Es in the Prime
:05:49. > :05:54.Minister's degree. He's very proud of the big E. Let's look at the
:05:54. > :05:59.figures. To get the growth rate predicted, they are unlikely to get
:06:00. > :06:06.these between now and 2015. Consumer credit rises by almost
:06:06. > :06:13.�600 billion. We add to the credit card. It's unfair to ask you, but I
:06:13. > :06:16.don't understand how you reconcile that. You're dealing a Tory
:06:16. > :06:23.leadership, modernisers. When they took over they didn't expect it to
:06:23. > :06:27.be about economics. It was a settled issue in 2005-2006.
:06:27. > :06:31.Sharing the growth? If only there was growth to share. Then the crash
:06:31. > :06:38.hits in 2008. They find themselves without a credible policy. They
:06:38. > :06:41.could not say, "we told you so." Since then, they have made it up
:06:42. > :06:47.since they go along. The reason why I think the politics of this is
:06:48. > :06:55.difficult for them, I would suggest, is that you use the word "Chaotic."
:06:55. > :07:01.I use the word "Turmoil." Yet the backdrop is economic chaos. It is a
:07:01. > :07:07.grim, grim backdrop. What is happening does not encourage
:07:07. > :07:10.competence. In 200 when David Cameron was doing his pre--- 2008
:07:10. > :07:16.when David Cameron was doing his pre-election speech, and George
:07:16. > :07:22.Osborne had to go to London. George Osborne is preoccupied with
:07:22. > :07:29.that. I have to say, with this I don't
:07:29. > :07:35.think they were pushing, seriously pushing this economic argument.
:07:35. > :07:40.They would, I think they were trying to make a point. They didn't
:07:40. > :07:44.realise.... This is a conference without many policy stories. They
:07:44. > :07:49.didn't realise if you went forward with two journalists then they will
:07:49. > :07:56.go for language. Talking about credit cards means they think they
:07:56. > :08:04.are connecting with ordinary people. What do you make of this overall
:08:04. > :08:11.mood? Where is this conference at now? It's been the most boring Tory
:08:11. > :08:16.conference since Robert Peel laid out a manifesto.
:08:16. > :08:20.Broadcasting was challenging then. I had to hold a lantern in those
:08:20. > :08:28.days. There's a sense, at the end of this season, of politics being
:08:28. > :08:33.in a holding patd tern and none has reallyal -- pattern and none has
:08:33. > :08:37.really altered. Final thought from you? They are happy. Look at the
:08:37. > :08:43.Europe debate, they are happy they have managed to contain that.
:08:43. > :08:48.Despite the cat. Despite the cat- flap, which was again chaotic!
:08:48. > :08:51.Over to Jo now. Thank you. It's been quite a 12 months for the
:08:51. > :08:54.partners of the coalition. This time last year, they might have
:08:54. > :08:58.thought that Britain would be on its way to economic recovery.
:08:58. > :09:03.Instead the world has been hit by a second economic crisis and the most
:09:03. > :09:13.sustained drop in living standards since the 1920's is predicted. They
:09:13. > :09:18.
:09:18. > :09:23.are putting a brave face on things. At this time of great national
:09:23. > :09:29.challenge, two parties have come together to help make it happen.
:09:29. > :09:32.The longer you leave it, the worse it gets. You pay more interest,
:09:32. > :09:37.millions of pounds, every single day that goes to the foreign
:09:37. > :09:42.Governments we owe. We will withdraw child benefit from
:09:42. > :09:46.households with a higher rate tax band. David Cameron says the
:09:46. > :09:50.changes to tax benefit are tough but fair? They are tough, I am not
:09:50. > :09:55.sure about fair. Will the cuts hurt? They will hurt. The gamble
:09:55. > :09:59.from the men from the Treasury is they will also work. We will ensure,
:09:59. > :10:04.like every solvent household in the country, that what we buy we can
:10:04. > :10:09.afford. That the bills we incur we have the income to meet.
:10:09. > :10:19.sprinted through a long, complex list of benefits to be cut. Every
:10:19. > :10:29.
:10:29. > :10:34.I am here for people who have been knocked off from benefits. We need
:10:34. > :10:37.to move away from the system we've had for 20 years where ministers
:10:37. > :10:43.dictate everything that happens in schools.
:10:43. > :10:46.Under the new system, everyone will pay back less than what they pay
:10:46. > :10:50.under the current system. The poorest will pay less. The richest
:10:50. > :10:56.will pay more. Only the Prime Minister could treble tuition fees
:10:56. > :11:01.and then claim it's a better deal for students.
:11:01. > :11:07.323. Three-quarters of the Government's
:11:07. > :11:11.majority had been wiped out. "Shame", Labour MPs called, but it
:11:11. > :11:14.was too late. We need a social recovery to mend the broken society.
:11:14. > :11:19.To me, that is what the "big society" is all about. I don't see
:11:19. > :11:21.how you can build a bigger society when you're harming the very
:11:21. > :11:31.organisations at the heart of communities who are delivering that
:11:31. > :11:42.
:11:42. > :11:49.We will not delay in taking the action that is necessary.
:11:49. > :11:54.Pause, listen to reflect and to improve our NHS modernisation plans.
:11:54. > :11:58.Almost every hand raised in protest, almost every nurse here, angry.
:11:58. > :12:08.wanted us to make clear that competition is not there for its
:12:08. > :12:15.
:12:15. > :12:21.own sake, but to make life better To be fair to my right honourable
:12:21. > :12:31.friend, the, he's only been in his job for a year. He's doing a superb
:12:31. > :12:40.
:12:40. > :12:43.job. There's plenty more fuel in The Liberal Democrats made up this
:12:43. > :12:47.Parliament and they seem to be influencing our school policy,
:12:47. > :12:52.health, immigration and abortion. Does the Prime Minister think it's
:12:52. > :13:00.time he told the Deputy Prime Minister who is the boss.
:13:00. > :13:04.Calm down, dear. Calm down. Listen to the doctor.
:13:04. > :13:14.Conservative vote has proved to be more robust. They were doing well
:13:14. > :13:21.
:13:21. > :13:24.against their coalition partners, Do you have any regrets?
:13:25. > :13:29.With 20/20 hindsight and all that follows I would not have offered
:13:29. > :13:34.him the job. I suspect he would not have taken it. If it turns out I've
:13:34. > :13:38.been lied to, that would be a moment for a profound apolicy. In
:13:38. > :13:44.that event, I can tell you I will not fall short. It's not about
:13:44. > :13:49.whether Mr Coulson lied to him. It's about all the warnings the
:13:49. > :13:56.Prime Minister ignored. All of us would have what hoped to
:13:56. > :13:59.have avoided the use of force. This could have been complied with if
:13:59. > :14:04.Gaddafi complied with the resolution. The fact is he didn't.
:14:05. > :14:12.Colonel Gaddafi said he would hunt you down like rats, but you showed
:14:12. > :14:16.the courage of lions and we salute your courage.
:14:16. > :14:20.There are pockets of our society that are not just broken, but
:14:20. > :14:25.frankly sick. Europe's economic crisis is
:14:25. > :14:31.spreading. A warn from the EU commission. The debt contagion now
:14:31. > :14:34.threatens Italy and Spain.... Tonight, at 10pm, another surge in
:14:34. > :14:38.unemployment. Britain will stick to the deficit
:14:38. > :14:48.plan we have set out. It is the rock of stability on which our
:14:48. > :14:51.
:14:51. > :14:53.I am joined now by three backbenchers, Andrea Leadsom, Jacob
:14:53. > :14:58.Rees-Mogg and Anna Soubry. Welcome to all of you. Let's reflect on
:14:59. > :15:02.that for a moment. Anna, the high point for you over the past year? I
:15:02. > :15:07.think the high point about the coalition is it's working well.
:15:07. > :15:10.you think id wouldn't? It is so new to have two parties who fought an
:15:10. > :15:17.election coming together in the national interests. It has worked
:15:17. > :15:21.out really well. It's a difficult time. The economy is go ing to...
:15:21. > :15:27.Whatever we do. It is such a big, serious problem. Is it difficult to
:15:27. > :15:31.say, on that basis, if you look at some things which were picked in
:15:31. > :15:36.that film, we had the AV referendum, Libya. Yet on this biggest issue,
:15:36. > :15:40.on the economy, on economic growth, David Cameron struggled to find the
:15:40. > :15:43.message, that appears to have been reflected today in some of the
:15:43. > :15:47.speech which have been put out beforehand? The message is right,
:15:47. > :15:51.that it's serious and it's going to be wrong. It's going to be long.
:15:51. > :15:53.About the message about what people should do? They should pay down
:15:53. > :15:57.their debt. They have to restructure, not just the
:15:57. > :16:02.Government, but individuals as well. There was too much debt within the
:16:02. > :16:05.system and until debt is repaid, we can't begin to have a well-founded
:16:05. > :16:10.recovery. Is that wise to your constituents, at a time when many
:16:10. > :16:14.of them cannot afford to pay off those bills? It is wise to tell
:16:14. > :16:18.people the truth, even if it is an unpalatable one. Won't people think
:16:18. > :16:21.he doesn't get the situation, he being David Cameron. If he is
:16:21. > :16:25.telling people to pay off their credit card bills at a time they
:16:25. > :16:28.are struggling with family income, he has missed the point, hasn't he?
:16:29. > :16:33.I don't think so at all. My constituency bag is full of letters
:16:33. > :16:43.from people saying they understand the need for cuts. Yes, the cuts,
:16:43. > :16:43.
:16:44. > :16:48.but what about telling individuals? We want to create a better world
:16:48. > :16:52.for our children. We can go on to Don't you want people to spend? The
:16:52. > :16:59.message has been that growth is the biggest priority and you are
:17:00. > :17:03.telling people to stay at home. That is a contradictory message.
:17:03. > :17:11.is after a fashion. Not everybody is indebted. You want people who
:17:11. > :17:18.can spend to promote growth but equally you do not want people to
:17:18. > :17:19.be indebted. As it has been said time and time again, you cannot
:17:19. > :17:22.spend your way up of debt. You have to sort out, balance your books,
:17:23. > :17:28.whether it is your house or books on national books, and then you can
:17:28. > :17:35.move on a positive way. They growth figures have been revised downwards,
:17:35. > :17:41.albeit slightly, and David Cameron's message is, pull up the
:17:41. > :17:50.drawbridge. She relates it to her own constituents. Not everybody is
:17:50. > :17:55.in debt. A lot of people are and they know, because people have been
:17:55. > :17:58.so responsive and have been paying off their credit card debts and we
:17:58. > :18:01.are saying, continued to do that. Those who do who are the good
:18:01. > :18:05.people who have taken sensible measures and he will continue to
:18:06. > :18:10.spend because they are managing their family finances -- is
:18:10. > :18:14.possibly. That might strike a chord with women because a lot of them
:18:14. > :18:22.deal with family finances. Why is David Cameron not getting through
:18:22. > :18:26.to women voters? I do think we can generalise. -- don't. There are
:18:26. > :18:30.certain sections of Women voters who have fallen away from us. Some
:18:30. > :18:33.of those are because unfortunately the cuts have hit women who work in
:18:33. > :18:35.the public sector because traditionally more women work in
:18:35. > :18:38.the public sector than men. Obviously people will be less
:18:38. > :18:44.enamoured with a government they see responsible for them losing
:18:44. > :18:50.their jobs. The policies are hitting women harder. In some
:18:50. > :18:56.respects that is true and it is unfortunate. He cannot generalise -
:18:56. > :19:00.- you cannot. David admitted, in terms of trying to attract them up.
:19:00. > :19:10.It has been a great pain. Is it about the policies or is it about
:19:10. > :19:24.
:19:24. > :19:27.Do you think he needs to do more to attract the fairer sex? If we have
:19:27. > :19:32.the right policies and they succeed, the people of Britain will support
:19:32. > :19:37.the Conservatives. Having gimmicks, for whatever part of the community,
:19:37. > :19:41.men, women, whatever, is not right. It is setting your course, sticking
:19:41. > :19:48.to it, and getting the economy right. And that his policies. What
:19:49. > :19:53.about as a leader? A personal appeal? I think he has great appeal.
:19:53. > :19:56.To men and women. Is he showing the right leadership qualities? There
:19:56. > :20:03.has been debate about the leadership needed now in terms of
:20:03. > :20:06.the economy. He is a fantastic leader. He is a genuinely
:20:06. > :20:12.empathetic Person. He gets on well with people and is honest and
:20:12. > :20:14.forthright. I think he is superbly done. And the media have chosen
:20:14. > :20:19.unfortunately to pick on two incidents in the chamber when at
:20:19. > :20:23.the time we laughed about, men and women. The story the next day was
:20:23. > :20:26.that if -- different to our understanding. And the choices we
:20:26. > :20:30.have made as a party. In spite of the need to get small businesses
:20:30. > :20:37.going again, to get the economy going again, to do as much as we
:20:37. > :20:47.can to get regulation and red tape to enable tables to get going, we
:20:47. > :20:57.
:20:57. > :21:04.We are showing a balance of the economies. It is about families.
:21:04. > :21:10.When we came on air, I told you that the Prime Minister's people
:21:10. > :21:14.brief that the speech would tell us to pay of a credit card bills and I
:21:14. > :21:24.suggested this created turmoil and that some finesse of redrafting of
:21:24. > :21:24.
:21:24. > :21:27.the speech was going on. I can tell you now, from Nick Robinson, his
:21:27. > :21:34.aides are saying that what she wrote in the papers and heard and
:21:34. > :21:38.the BBC this morning was actually due to "sloppy drafting". And the
:21:38. > :21:42.briefing for the unfinished speech. Whereas in the original draft he
:21:42. > :21:46.was going to tell us that means households, all of us, paying off
:21:46. > :21:50.the credit card and store card bills, he will now have redrafted
:21:50. > :21:55.to say, the only way out of the debt crisis is to deal with your
:21:56. > :22:03.debts. That is why households and none of us are paying off the
:22:03. > :22:08.credit card and store card bills. Already a change. It is hardly a
:22:08. > :22:12.sign of competence he cannot get it right. It is a debt crisis. The
:22:12. > :22:16.answer is not to stack up additional borrowing. And I think
:22:16. > :22:19.the Prime Minister is right to say that we had a crisis in the economy
:22:19. > :22:25.in this country and in other countries, precipitated by debt in
:22:25. > :22:29.this country, not only government, that carried on borrowing and
:22:29. > :22:33.failing to invest when it could have done. And also many households
:22:33. > :22:37.at a cost to a level of debt that was unsustainable. If we have
:22:37. > :22:39.recovery that is sustainable, it will have to be based, as the Prime
:22:39. > :22:46.Minister and Chancellor of Exchequer have made clear, on
:22:46. > :22:50.Investment. And exports. Unsustainable consumer spending --
:22:50. > :22:56.and sustainable consumer spending. You have said the only way out is
:22:56. > :23:00.not to recover more debt. cannot escape for a debt crisis by
:23:00. > :23:04.borrowing more. So why is the Government adding �500 billion to
:23:04. > :23:10.our debt? Because we have a clear debt reduction plan. You don't
:23:10. > :23:18.actually. We have a deficit reduction plan. Part of that means
:23:18. > :23:22.you will add between now and 2015 �500 billion in debt. Which is far
:23:23. > :23:30.less than the Labour Party were planning to do. And it takes us to
:23:30. > :23:34.a place where the annual deficit, it is brought back into balance.
:23:34. > :23:38.And that his watch... From the point of view of funding debt, you
:23:38. > :23:42.have to be in a position where you are not adding to it from annual
:23:42. > :23:47.deficits at a place that is unsustainable. You have told us you
:23:47. > :23:51.cannot get out of a debt crisis by adding to our debts. That is what
:23:51. > :24:00.you're telling individuals. You are part of a government that is adding
:24:00. > :24:03.half a trillion pounds to our debt! both statements cannot be right.
:24:03. > :24:07.inherited a situation which nothing meal out debt to balloon, but the
:24:07. > :24:12.deficit to reach a place where literally we were borrowing more
:24:12. > :24:16.for what did he than Greece. We have to come to a place, and
:24:16. > :24:19.readmitted after the election, through the deficit reduction plan,
:24:19. > :24:24.how we were going to take an unsustainable deficit on the
:24:24. > :24:34.Government's finances to a point were the deficit has been
:24:34. > :25:08.
:25:08. > :25:13.If you have household debt, you should not max out on credit cards
:25:13. > :25:17.butchered a stop you have to live within your means. When people's
:25:17. > :25:23.pay is not keeping price with rising prices, when taxes are
:25:23. > :25:29.rising, particularly in the middle income levels, where people are put
:25:29. > :25:33.into the 40% tax brackets, you are taking obey their child benefit.
:25:33. > :25:37.And you are lecturing them to pay off their credit card bills? I am
:25:37. > :25:43.not lecturing them. All of us are in a position where we have to live
:25:43. > :25:47.within our means. We'll have occasions when we borrow to invest.
:25:47. > :25:53.We have mortgages. Nobody suggests that we shouldn't have borrowing
:25:53. > :25:57.where it makes sense. The housing market is a great example. If you
:25:57. > :26:00.get to a place where you are borrowing at levels that are
:26:00. > :26:06.completely unsustainable and not related to the security in your
:26:06. > :26:11.house, it cannot carry on. The same is true for stalked card debts and
:26:12. > :26:16.credit cards. Is it part of the Government's economic policy, then,
:26:16. > :26:22.that consumer debt should come down? It is the Government's policy
:26:22. > :26:30.to ensure sustainable recovery. it part of the Government policy
:26:30. > :26:34.that, as we'll get rid of this debt bubble, that consumer debts have to
:26:34. > :26:40.be reduced? I don't believe the Government has any target for
:26:40. > :26:43.consumer debt. He had been telling us to get rid of our credit card
:26:44. > :26:48.debts. It is clear that whether it is a household or the country, we
:26:48. > :26:58.cannot get out of the debt crisis by expanding our debt. The issue is,
:26:58. > :26:59.
:26:59. > :27:08.each of us, what we have to do is move to a more sustainable path. It
:27:08. > :27:11.is that export and competitiveness. The Prime Minister will say this
:27:11. > :27:17.afternoon the only way out of the debt crisis is to deal with your
:27:17. > :27:24.debts. This is the new draft. That is why households are paying off
:27:24. > :27:28.credit card bills. That is the Government policy. It is fact.
:27:28. > :27:35.is all of your growth forecast assumes that consumer debt will
:27:35. > :27:38.rise by �600 billion between now and 2015? The Treasury forecasts
:27:38. > :27:44.are their estimation, their understanding of what they
:27:44. > :27:49.anticipate will happen. The basis of your gross factors, your growth
:27:49. > :27:56.projections, assumed consumer debt will rise by �600 billion, not �400
:27:56. > :28:01.billion? Do you know what you're doing? Absolutely. It is shifting
:28:01. > :28:04.from an economic situation which is unsustainable because it is based
:28:04. > :28:09.on rising government debt and rising household debt that was not
:28:09. > :28:13.cake will have been repaid to a position where it is. There's
:28:13. > :28:19.nothing wrong with people financing themselves through borrowing, but
:28:19. > :28:24.if they do so on a sustainable basis. Are you aware that your
:28:24. > :28:30.government's own projections show household debt rising in the next
:28:30. > :28:37.three years? I remember the budget and other components of GDP for the
:28:37. > :28:41.future, and there are estimates of what level of investment and
:28:41. > :28:47.expenditure by consumers and government. Are you aware household
:28:47. > :28:53.debt is projected to rise in order to meet your future growth
:28:53. > :28:59.prospects? It is not to meet them. When you calculate what they
:28:59. > :29:04.anticipate the level of GDP is, level of consumer credit is a
:29:04. > :29:10.component of that. It is not we are targeting for consumers to borrow a
:29:10. > :29:13.given level of money. It is about individuals, households, the
:29:13. > :29:19.Government, moving from unsustainable debts as a basis for
:29:19. > :29:23.economic recovery to one that is sustainable. You have baffled me.
:29:23. > :29:27.Should consumer debt rise or fall? Individual consumer debt is a
:29:27. > :29:31.matter for individual households. The Government's job is to make
:29:31. > :29:33.sure but on behalf of the taxpayers and public we do not allow our
:29:33. > :29:42.economy to the damage in the way Labour did by unsustainable
:29:42. > :29:46.borrowing. I think we had better The Tories and their coalition
:29:46. > :29:56.partners, the Lib Dems, happiness thick as thieves for over a year.
:29:56. > :29:56.
:29:56. > :30:03.He has benefited the most on the These are the last minutes of the
:30:03. > :30:09.conference. Which party has benefit this funding in the coalition? --
:30:09. > :30:15.which parted has benefited the most from the coalition? It looks as
:30:15. > :30:20.though neither of them. They got power for the first time. And if
:30:20. > :30:26.they play it right, they can show they are a party that is worthy of
:30:26. > :30:36.having power given to them. Is it to the detriment of you guys?
:30:36. > :30:45.
:30:45. > :30:51.I think we've, I shouldn't say get away with, a lot of our policies.
:30:51. > :30:57.Why have you gone for that? Well, I think they've ruined quite a lot of
:30:57. > :31:02.Tory policies. Such as? Well, I think that we'd be harsher on
:31:02. > :31:06.Europe, for one thing and the economy as welt. You worked very
:31:06. > :31:09.hard for many years to have a Conservative Government and
:31:09. > :31:14.Conservative policies and the Liberal Democrats are, some of
:31:14. > :31:20.their policies are quite ridiculous. Which party has done best out of
:31:21. > :31:25.the coalition? Why would you say that? Because they have a very
:31:25. > :31:30.small size of the vote and a very large slice of the influence and
:31:30. > :31:35.it's not right. I have an admiration for them. Of course they
:31:35. > :31:39.are wrong on almost everything. That's because they are Liberal
:31:39. > :31:43.Democrats. There is a chaos theory answer to this.... No, we simply
:31:44. > :31:48.cannot find out, I am afraid. We both have benefits but not nearly
:31:48. > :31:52.as much as the country. The liberals didn't want it. They
:31:52. > :31:56.are scared stiff of it. They don't know what to do with it. I think
:31:56. > :32:03.the Liberal Democrats should be grateful to have the chance of
:32:03. > :32:09.having some junior ministerial positions. Whoops!
:32:09. > :32:15.Take two! The sooner we can ditch them, the better. How about you?
:32:15. > :32:18.agree. Why do you say that? Because they
:32:18. > :32:20.didn't have any profile previously. We have been propped up by the
:32:20. > :32:25.Liberal Democrats who have done very well themselves. Without the
:32:25. > :32:35.Liberal Democrats we would not have got anything. We have some of our
:32:35. > :32:40.
:32:40. > :32:44.manifesto put in. It is not ideal, We're doing a poll for The Daily
:32:44. > :32:49.Politics.... No Andrew Mitchell for Well, the balls have been flying
:32:50. > :32:54.thick and fast. Let's see where they have been flying to. After an
:32:54. > :33:04.early start, where people were scathing about the Lib Dems, it
:33:04. > :33:05.
:33:05. > :33:11.seems now the Tories think they are getting the most benefit.
:33:11. > :33:16.Have you had a lot of liberal people in? No Lib Dems here. Why
:33:16. > :33:20.are you so surprised when you see that result? I have to say, the
:33:20. > :33:25.liberal tail is wagging the Conservative dog. How these guys
:33:25. > :33:29.who are in Government, with their red boxes and enjoying stuff
:33:29. > :33:33.enormously, let's face it, hardly anyone voted for them. They must
:33:33. > :33:39.have done better out of it than we have. The bags are empty. Look
:33:39. > :33:43.where they have gone. The majority of Tory delegates think they are
:33:43. > :33:53.getting the benefit. A fair few thought the Lib Dems were and they
:33:53. > :33:54.
:33:54. > :34:04.were very mean about them. A clear... He started to talk before
:34:04. > :34:04.
:34:04. > :34:09.I introduced him. Brian Binley, does it surprise you
:34:09. > :34:13.to see that? I think the British people didn't want another election.
:34:13. > :34:16.They certainly didn't want Gordon Brown. We have a lot of
:34:16. > :34:24.Conservative policy on the move. There's a problem with some
:34:24. > :34:29.activists who have a perception, not only through rhetoric, but
:34:29. > :34:34.through activity that the tail wags the dog a little too much. We hear
:34:34. > :34:39.a lot from MPs, Conservative MPs, in the House, and also from
:34:39. > :34:44.activists here, who feel they have too much influence, bearing in mind
:34:44. > :34:51.they are far fewer in number. you are in the House, you see a lot
:34:51. > :34:54.of the rhetoric traded back and forth across the debating chamber.
:34:54. > :35:01.Let's think about policies, specifically. We heard somebody
:35:01. > :35:08.there saying "We would have been harsh on Europe, got rid of the 50p
:35:08. > :35:12.tax rate." Do you think these have been real down-sides for the
:35:12. > :35:17.Conservatives and coalition or not? I doubt we would have gained more
:35:17. > :35:20.from powers from Europe. The problem has been the eurozone. That
:35:20. > :35:24.will give us potentially an opportunity. Do you characterise
:35:24. > :35:28.the coalition as a necessary evil or a positive collaboration? It has
:35:28. > :35:34.been good for British politics and good for the nation generally. I
:35:34. > :35:39.would disagree a little with Jesse. We would have been more robust on
:35:39. > :35:44.Europe. How? I think the words we would have used. It would not have
:35:44. > :35:49.been policy. You could not have brought back any powers? You only
:35:49. > :35:53.have to see how some Conservatives voted, particularly on support for
:35:53. > :35:57.the eurozone to know that, I think, we would have been less forthcoming
:35:57. > :36:01.in that respect. George has put on a brave face. A lot of the
:36:01. > :36:05.Conservative Party would have wanted us to have been less
:36:05. > :36:09.forthcoming. The NHS Bill, that's been watered down somewhat because
:36:09. > :36:13.of the liberal presence. I think that we would have had a boulder
:36:13. > :36:18.Bill, which I think would have been more useful to the patients of this
:36:18. > :36:24.country. Do you agree with that? would have had a boulder Bill on
:36:24. > :36:28.the NHS. On the eurozone I don't think much would have changed. The
:36:28. > :36:35.eurozone has continued to be worse. We are massively implicated even
:36:35. > :36:39.though we have not signed 7 to more money over and -- that was of and
:36:39. > :36:41.above pledged at the time. Are you hoping it will be a majority?
:36:41. > :36:44.Conservative. I think we should have a Conservative Party leading
:36:44. > :36:48.next time around. The Conservative Party is a National Party. What
:36:48. > :36:53.we're seeing here is a decision by the delegates here to reflect the
:36:53. > :36:56.nation's interest in the form of coalition. That's why they are
:36:56. > :37:00.comfortable with coalition. One of the tensions reflected by Nick
:37:00. > :37:09.Clegg's speech, he said, clearly, the Human Rights Act is here to
:37:09. > :37:13.stay. Is it? No. Not in its present form. He says it is. You could have
:37:13. > :37:17.worries and then look at repeal. Repeal has a lot of issues. We
:37:17. > :37:24.would be bound by the.... Would you like to see it. Do you think Nick
:37:24. > :37:30.Clegg is wrong? I'm one of the few people who think the Human Rights
:37:30. > :37:35.Act is an impeccable piece of legislation. It was brought into
:37:35. > :37:39.law by Winston Churchill. The Human Rights Convention was
:37:39. > :37:44.brought into effect, not the act, which was brought into effect by
:37:44. > :37:48.Tony Blair. As you know, Brian, they are identical word for word.
:37:48. > :37:52.It's the same language. What about the British Bill of Rights. That
:37:52. > :37:55.will not happen, will it? interesting thing will be how it
:37:55. > :38:00.will be able to take the right tradition that the Conservatives
:38:00. > :38:04.have supported of basic freedoms for human beings and through into a
:38:04. > :38:11.new instrument. Take a badge before you go, please. I know you like all
:38:11. > :38:17.of them, "Don't panic" "love the coalition." Who is your favourite
:38:17. > :38:25.Liberal Democrats? I like Mark Hunter. I am not spoilt for choice.
:38:25. > :38:29.I like Martin Horwood. He is my neighbour in Cheltenham. We will go
:38:29. > :38:33.back to the conference floor where William Hague has been speaking.
:38:33. > :38:39.are putting forward the real growth agenda, which is what Europe
:38:39. > :38:43.desperately needs. It does not need any more institutions, costly
:38:43. > :38:49.regulations, cumbersome directives or a single more bureaucrat. It
:38:49. > :38:56.needs burdens on businesses, lifted the expansion of the single market
:38:56. > :39:01.and a passionate belief in the benefits of trade. It is now
:39:01. > :39:07.acknowledged that when we said that joining the euro would be a
:39:07. > :39:11.disaster for Britain, we were right. When we said.... APPLAUSE
:39:11. > :39:15.When we said that Labour should not have let us get sucked into the
:39:15. > :39:21.eurozone bail outs, we were right. Now, thanks to David Cameron,
:39:21. > :39:27.European bail outs for Greece will not call on the British taxpayer.
:39:27. > :39:31.When we said... APPLAUSE When we said the costs of the EU
:39:31. > :39:34.budget were out of control, we were right. Now, we have had
:39:34. > :39:38.unprecedented success in bringing it under control.
:39:38. > :39:47.When we said that no more areas of power should go to the EU, we were
:39:47. > :39:51.right. Now, thanks to the European Union Act, 2011, bylaw, that cannot
:39:51. > :39:59.happen without a referendum in this country.
:39:59. > :40:03.APPLAUSE. And we are just as right that the European Union has more
:40:03. > :40:07.power in our national life than it should have.
:40:08. > :40:10.I belief as strongly as I ever have that when the right moments come
:40:10. > :40:20.this party should set out to reduce that power.
:40:20. > :40:20.
:40:20. > :40:25.APPLAUSE 14 years ago I predicted the
:40:25. > :40:29.eurozone would become a burning building with no exits. But because
:40:29. > :40:32.the eurozone countries are our friends and neighbours, because our
:40:32. > :40:37.prosperity and financial stability is tide to theirs, we must now
:40:37. > :40:41.support them in their efforts to quench the flames.
:40:41. > :40:44.That was William Hague. The foreign affairs theme continued on the
:40:44. > :40:49.conference floor with a speech from the Defence Secretary, Liam Fox.
:40:50. > :40:56.There are those in Europe who are calling for the EU to take a
:40:56. > :41:00.greater role in Europe's security. Let me tell you, Europe already has
:41:00. > :41:05.a guarantor of its defence. It's called NATO.
:41:05. > :41:10.It is nonsense to duplicate and divert from NATO at a time when
:41:10. > :41:19.resources are scarce. The last thing we need is more EU
:41:19. > :41:24.bureaucracy. APPLAUSE
:41:24. > :41:29.You know, many of those calling for deeper EU defence integration are
:41:29. > :41:34.already failing to fulfil the commitments they have made to NATO.
:41:34. > :41:39.My message to them is clear: You cannot expect to have the insurance
:41:39. > :41:46.policy, but ask oh thisers to pay the premiums for u.
:41:46. > :41:50.-- for you. APPLAUSE
:41:50. > :41:55.NATO must maintain its primacy in European defence. NATO is the
:41:55. > :42:02.alliance that keeps the United States in Europe and that is not a
:42:02. > :42:07.luxury, it is a necessity. APPLAUSE
:42:07. > :42:12.At a time when we are reducing the number of military headquarters in
:42:12. > :42:17.NATO, where I shall be this afternoon, it is not the time to
:42:17. > :42:21.start increasing them in the European Union. That is why William
:42:21. > :42:25.Hague vetoed the long-term Euro- aspiration of creating a permanent
:42:25. > :42:29.EU military headquarters. APPLAUSE
:42:29. > :42:34.That was the Secretary of State for defence. He'd just had his 50th
:42:34. > :42:38.birthday. Mrs Thatcher turned up. That is an achiefment. We don't do
:42:38. > :42:42.titles on this programme. We have a man with one though, he is
:42:42. > :42:46.International Development Secretary, he is Andrew Mitchell. Welcome back
:42:46. > :42:50.to The Daily Politics. In charge of foreign aid,s we used to call it,
:42:50. > :42:54.and you are increasing the budget, spending billions more. What's it
:42:54. > :42:59.like to be at a Tory conference in charge of the least popular policy
:42:59. > :43:03.of your party? Well, I think it's getting better understood and
:43:03. > :43:07.increasingly popular. Some of the polling suggests that is the case.
:43:07. > :43:12.I've had the chance to make a speech at the conference on Sunday,
:43:12. > :43:16.where I set out the reasons for this, that even in these extremely
:43:16. > :43:20.difficult economic times we have a plan that stands by commitments on
:43:20. > :43:24.development. We do this because it's the right thing to do and very
:43:24. > :43:27.much in our national interest. you accept that there could be
:43:27. > :43:32.circumstances where you couldn't keep to that commitment? Well, it
:43:32. > :43:34.is a commitment on the size of the national cake. It is not a fixed
:43:34. > :43:38.figure. I think that is the right
:43:38. > :43:42.commitment to make. We have set out very clearly,
:43:42. > :43:46.George Osborne set it out earlier this year, very clearly what our
:43:46. > :43:49.spending plans are. We have every intention of sticking to those
:43:49. > :43:52.plans. If the economy goes into recession, which is now a
:43:52. > :43:57.possibility, you don't have to blame the Government for that -
:43:57. > :44:01.look at events abroad, if the eurozone goes into meltdown,
:44:01. > :44:06.unemployment starts to soar, living standards collapse more. Will you
:44:06. > :44:08.still continue with our commitment to spend billions on overseas aid?
:44:09. > :44:12.We are clear that is the case because it is the right thing and
:44:12. > :44:16.you see British support for that and the -- in the response across
:44:16. > :44:19.Britain to the disaster, for example in the Horn of Africa at
:44:19. > :44:23.the moment, where times are straightened than in the past,
:44:23. > :44:26.people are more generous. It is part of the British character, I
:44:26. > :44:30.think. It is also very important for our national security. This
:44:30. > :44:35.budget goes to ensure that we are more secure. Our security does not
:44:35. > :44:38.only gained by guns and bullets, but by training the police in
:44:38. > :44:42.Afghanistan, building up Government structures in the Middle East,
:44:42. > :44:46.getting girls into schools in the Horn of Africa. Those things, as
:44:46. > :44:51.well as guns and bullets help protect our security. It is hard to
:44:51. > :44:56.prove any of it. You boost about spending money in schools in
:44:56. > :44:59.Pakistan. You spend a fraction of what the Saudis spend in Pakistan.
:44:59. > :45:05.Those schools are different from the ones you are spending on. That
:45:05. > :45:10.bit is true, isn't it? The ma dra is as. Which is what the Saudis pay
:45:10. > :45:16.for. Some are doing extremely good work at teaching kids the basics of
:45:16. > :45:20.life. A lot are Islamic fundamentalist hot beds. I have
:45:20. > :45:25.seen evidence that some of them are doing good work at teaching
:45:25. > :45:29.children to read, write and count well. What we're seeking to do is
:45:29. > :45:34.get four million children into school over the next four years in
:45:34. > :45:42.Pakistan. I cannot think anything more that would frustrate the
:45:42. > :45:46.terrorists' aims than having a well educated population. The bombers on
:45:46. > :45:49.9/11 were well educated? That is not the point. They are reacting to
:45:49. > :45:56.some of the very extreme causes of poverty that they see in their own
:45:56. > :46:01.country. What we know is doing development upstream in countries
:46:01. > :46:06.like Somalia and Afghanistan is more effective at tackling the
:46:06. > :46:16.causes of before they spread out, where you have to handle the
:46:16. > :46:24.Do you accept that 70% of the people he would rather protect the
:46:24. > :46:27.collapse in police numbers and finance your department's budget?
:46:27. > :46:31.think the number of people in the Conservative Party who have
:46:31. > :46:34.reservations about the development budget is falling all the time. The
:46:34. > :46:38.reason is that we are getting across this Plaid about it being
:46:38. > :46:44.the right thing to do and in our national interest. We have made our
:46:44. > :46:47.plans which have secured international recognition and
:46:47. > :46:51.respect, which is why we have German rates of interest, although
:46:51. > :46:54.we have Greek levels of debt, and those plans include giving strong
:46:54. > :46:58.support to the police, making sure the front line is preserved, and
:46:58. > :47:04.making sure we have strong defence forces for this country. That was
:47:04. > :47:07.the result of the SDR last year. And also standing by hour of
:47:07. > :47:13.international commitments and not balancing out books on the poorest
:47:13. > :47:18.people. You are tax in the country highly in order to finance things
:47:18. > :47:23.like your department -- you're taxing. Living standards are being
:47:23. > :47:28.squeezed as never before. Not as 1925 according to the Governor of
:47:28. > :47:33.the Bank of England. And yet the Tories are urging hard-pressed
:47:33. > :47:40.people to spend even more in your area, give more of their own money.
:47:40. > :47:43.Why are you doing that? If there are the billions more out of their
:47:43. > :47:50.tax when they are hurting, why do they then have to dig into their
:47:50. > :47:58.pockets even deeper? If you have seen the broadcast, when we see it,
:47:58. > :48:03.it is a very good use of a party political broadcast. The is a bunch
:48:03. > :48:09.of rich people asking ordinary people to give money. Every which
:48:09. > :48:14.are one has contributed. They can afford it. It is creative use of a
:48:14. > :48:18.political broadcast. If you look at Comic Relief for the last two years,
:48:18. > :48:23.although each year the economy has got more difficult, people have
:48:23. > :48:27.been more generous. It is part of the British DNA. Should people, if
:48:27. > :48:37.they have spare cash, should they use it to give money in the way you
:48:37. > :48:37.
:48:37. > :49:21.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds
:49:21. > :49:26.Of the future, that is the slogan. William Hague started it off last
:49:26. > :49:30.year. Last year we had a tricky time with the actor must stop the
:49:30. > :49:39.him sharing a bedroom with his special adviser. This year the
:49:39. > :49:47.relationship is back on. And now we embark on a difficult task, to take
:49:47. > :49:53.the country that Gordon Brown and all those who run the Labour Party
:49:53. > :50:03.had their hands on for 13 years is to make it strong again. And that
:50:03. > :50:35.
:50:35. > :50:45.And there he with, rare footage showed him with a backbencher.
:50:45. > :50:52.
:50:52. > :50:59.You can see consistentsy. It will be welcomed by all those
:50:59. > :51:02.people in the country. Downing Street talking to backbenchers is
:51:02. > :51:07.not the only arm-bending that goes on at this conference. Look at
:51:07. > :51:11.this! That's the sort of thing that the
:51:11. > :51:19.Treasury does to statistics. Let's be honest, all politicians
:51:19. > :51:22.treem of standing here, at -- dream of standing here, at the door of
:51:22. > :51:27.Number Ten. The Mayor of London gave his routine speech, so routine
:51:27. > :51:31.that parts were heated from last year. The delegates liked him and
:51:31. > :51:37.he goes down very well. Is he really credible for this place? I'm
:51:37. > :51:41.not convinced. We are insisting on homes that are
:51:41. > :51:47.big enough for families with children and rooms big enough for
:51:47. > :51:52.human beings, rather than hobbits. None of us, as you may have noticed,
:51:53. > :51:57.none of us are getting any smaller. Boris lacks the seriousness of
:51:57. > :52:03.George Osborne. The Chancellor gave a speech about deficit reduction.
:52:03. > :52:09.It did have that pattern of gravity. His speech did not lift off.
:52:09. > :52:18.The activists gairve him respebgtdable applause -- gave him
:52:18. > :52:22.5th 4th May are in a debt crisis will stop you cannot borrow your
:52:22. > :52:29.way out of debt. And so we reached the end, and I cannot say I am
:52:29. > :52:32.sorry. There has been a decadence Quercus. We have not taken the
:52:32. > :52:38.cameras into that bars. But the drinking has been sybaritic. The
:52:38. > :52:44.lobbying by, if the voters and viewers of Britain knew what went
:52:44. > :52:48.on at these events, they would be horrified!
:52:48. > :52:55.We found three delegates. Don Valley Color of Pete Babri and
:52:55. > :53:00.Theodora Clark. Where are the rule of delegates? The Tory grass roots?
:53:00. > :53:05.Are you one of them? Yes I am for a stop I am not a researcher and I do
:53:05. > :53:09.not work for an MP but I still has a parliamentary candidate last year.
:53:09. > :53:13.There are some good financial reasons why a lot of people from
:53:13. > :53:17.the grassroots level do not come first but it is quite expensive to
:53:17. > :53:22.come to this conference, I feel for a star or so you agree that it is
:53:22. > :53:26.not the same that it has been in previous years? Very much so. It
:53:26. > :53:31.would be good if we could suggest that we have a single day passes.
:53:31. > :53:38.Rather than having to come though the entire period. To me you agree?
:53:38. > :53:42.Has it been hijacked by lobby and its? I wouldn't say so. I would say
:53:42. > :53:48.I am so the cut Tory activist for a stop I think that is representative
:53:48. > :53:58.of a whole lot of people who are here. It would you like to hear
:53:58. > :54:04.
:54:04. > :54:08.from the speech? It will be a He must also tell the economy and
:54:08. > :54:15.show he is the right leader to work it out. Is it the right message,
:54:15. > :54:21.asking people to pay off their bills? We do it? How many people
:54:21. > :54:27.can genuinely pay-off their bills? You are still struggling, even
:54:27. > :54:33.though interest rates alone. When I do not we come something -- why do
:54:33. > :54:38.not come up with something inevitable? A had not have a credit
:54:39. > :54:42.card before stuck -- I do not have. The importance of this is, and part
:54:42. > :54:49.of conference is not just talking to activists, and giving a message
:54:49. > :54:57.to the whole country. There is an important message in, reducing your
:54:57. > :55:07.debt, in respecting the weight with the -- in respect of the way we
:55:07. > :55:11.
:55:11. > :55:16.We are joined to -- by our BBC political editor, Nick Robinson for
:55:16. > :55:25.a stop there seems to be term there, Caersws, shambles, well over the
:55:25. > :55:30.strutting -- there seems to the turmoil, chaos. The Prime Minister
:55:30. > :55:38.and his aides have read and heard her players suggesting he wants
:55:38. > :55:47.people to pay off their credit card. It implies he will stand up there
:55:47. > :55:57.and say I cannot stop spending for a stop which would be catastrophic
:55:57. > :56:27.
:56:27. > :56:29.first stop what is being said is, Look, mistakes are made in
:56:29. > :56:34.briefings and sometimes you say something and you realise that is
:56:34. > :56:38.not going the way we thought it would be. We have to change course,
:56:38. > :56:43.and that is what has happened here. The problem, I would suggest, for
:56:43. > :56:50.them, is it is hard... I cannot remember covering a party
:56:50. > :56:54.conference when the economic backdrop was grimmer, it is grimmer
:56:54. > :56:59.than the Lehman Brothers' backdrop. You have to go back to 1968 to get
:56:59. > :57:07.a grimmer one. Voters will be looking for a sense of competence
:57:07. > :57:11.and they know what a're doing and saying. It is hard. He's walking a
:57:11. > :57:16.tightrope. On one hand he wants - that is the message they wanted -
:57:16. > :57:21.he wants a message of hope and optimism, saying this is what the
:57:21. > :57:25.future could look like. He does not want to be accused of having
:57:25. > :57:29.hopelessly in denial or unrealistic. That was the tightrope they were
:57:29. > :57:33.focusing on staying on. He has fallen on something different,
:57:33. > :57:38.which is to do with economic competence. I tell you why this has
:57:38. > :57:41.happened, which is, and it happened before the last election - the
:57:42. > :57:46.truth is, politicians have deliberately blurred the issue of
:57:46. > :57:50.debt and the deficit. Andrew Lansley sitting in that
:57:51. > :57:55.chair.... Why? When they do market research - people understand the
:57:56. > :58:00.notion of debt and they fear it and don't like it. When the
:58:00. > :58:04.Conservatives attacked Gordon Brown they always use the word "debt." He
:58:04. > :58:09.would say "our debt is not particularly big." The argument was
:58:09. > :58:13.about the deficit. In other words, the debt at which -- the rate at
:58:13. > :58:23.which the debt is getting bigger. By using household parallels, which
:58:23. > :58:24.
:58:24. > :58:30.are not accurate.... Gets them into trouble. It is your birthday. This
:58:30. > :58:36.will help you pay off the Nic Robinson credit card bill. Would
:58:36. > :58:42.you like to open it? Have you seen this expensive wrapping paper?
:58:42. > :58:47.Quick, we're running out of time. Thank you very much. A United scarf.
:58:47. > :58:53.I was at Old Trafford on Saturday. 2-0 against Norwich. Very, very