19/10/2011

:00:25. > :00:28.Good morning. This is the Daily Politics.

:00:28. > :00:31.There've been angry clashes at Dale Farm in Essex where dozens of riot

:00:31. > :00:35.police have entered the camp to clear the illegal part of the

:00:35. > :00:38.travellers' site. Two people were tasered this morning and one person,

:00:38. > :00:45.so far, has been arrested. Officers were targeted with bricks and

:00:45. > :00:48.rubble. We'll have the latest. Mervyn King warns time is running

:00:48. > :00:51.out to solve the world economy. The governor of the Bank of England

:00:51. > :00:55.says the recovery has gone off track and the consequences will

:00:55. > :00:57."inflict pain on everyone". Is our green and pleasant land

:00:57. > :01:03.about to be ruined by the Government's proposed planning

:01:03. > :01:06.legislation? Or is there a whiff of a U-turn on the horizon?

:01:06. > :01:09.And talking of the countryside, as the EU prepares to reform the

:01:09. > :01:15.Common Agricultural policy, we hear from one farmer who says it's a

:01:15. > :01:23.lost opportunity. Yes all that and more, including

:01:23. > :01:28.The next 90 minutes of TV bronze. We worry about the bureaucratic

:01:28. > :01:34.proposals. And we worry about whether we are less competitive

:01:34. > :01:40.rather than more competitive. All that and more, including Prime

:01:40. > :01:49.Minister's Questions. Coming up in the next 90 minutes of TV bronze.

:01:49. > :01:53.See how self-effacing we are! There is a terrible smell of blue in the

:01:53. > :01:57.studio. Have you gone back to sniffing? No, I took my nail

:01:57. > :02:01.varnish off before. And with us for the duration we have a match made

:02:01. > :02:03.in heaven. Indeed the Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher of Westminster.

:02:03. > :02:13.The Environment Secretary, Caroline Spelman, and the newly-promoted

:02:13. > :02:21.

:02:21. > :02:24.Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umanna. The BBC pronunciation

:02:24. > :02:27.department scores they first. Welcome to you both.

:02:27. > :02:30.First this morning let's turn to events at Dale Farm in Essex, where

:02:30. > :02:34.after a long, legal battle riot police and bailiffs moved in this

:02:34. > :02:44.morning to evict travellers, many of whom have lived there for over a

:02:44. > :02:46.

:02:46. > :02:50.decade. Our correspondent is there. What is the latest?

:02:50. > :02:59.The police and the bailiffs are still trying to dismantle the main

:02:59. > :03:03.gate of Dale Farm. The 40 ft barrier. They went into the site

:03:03. > :03:10.from the other side, from the friends behind the back. They went

:03:10. > :03:14.in pretty swiftly and used Taser gun as and rocks and other missiles

:03:14. > :03:19.were thrown at the police. And they are trying to get the protesters

:03:19. > :03:24.down of the scaffolding, so they can clear away the barricades at

:03:24. > :03:29.the front and get the emergency vehicles in. They need to put out

:03:29. > :03:34.at least one fire that is burning inside Dale Farm and begin the

:03:34. > :03:38.process of clearing the site of those illegal homes. It looks as if

:03:38. > :03:44.the resistance is coming from the protesters as much as the

:03:44. > :03:47.travellers, is this going to be a long, drawn-out process? I think it

:03:47. > :03:53.is, I think the council was initially planning for this to take

:03:53. > :03:58.eight weeks, and that was a month ago. We have had all of the legal

:03:58. > :04:02.challenges since then. Although the number of travellers inside Dale

:04:02. > :04:07.Farm and supporters have dwindled, we think most of the children are

:04:07. > :04:12.already out. Some of the caravans have left. The number of supporters,

:04:12. > :04:20.there were about 100 a few weeks ago, now down to about a couple of

:04:20. > :04:25.dozen. It is an easier operation than it might of been, and some are

:04:25. > :04:31.offering various degrees of resistance. Others are resisting

:04:31. > :04:37.more peacefully. This is going to be a drawn-out process, not just

:04:37. > :04:43.securing the site, but beginning the removal of those homes. Thanks

:04:43. > :04:46.very much for the update. Now, earlier I spoke to the local

:04:46. > :04:54.MP for the area, John Barron. I began by asking him whether he had

:04:54. > :04:59.any sympathy for the families who were being evicted. These are

:04:59. > :05:03.families that have broken the law. We cannot have in this country, our

:05:03. > :05:08.law for one group of people and a law for another group of people.

:05:08. > :05:12.These traveller families have been offered alternative accommodation.

:05:12. > :05:16.They have refused that because they deem it to be bricks and mortar.

:05:16. > :05:21.There are other alternative authorised sites around the country,

:05:21. > :05:25.but they said they do not want to travel. Also the council has an

:05:25. > :05:30.obligation to look after the elderly, the young and the

:05:30. > :05:34.vulnerable from the site. Those that are displaced from the site.

:05:34. > :05:39.Doesn't the council take some responsibility for having taken so

:05:39. > :05:44.long to sort this out. After 10 years surely they have earned some

:05:44. > :05:50.right to stay? The previous Government stock the council from

:05:50. > :05:54.taking some action. But there were periods in the past, for up to two

:05:55. > :06:02.years, the Labour Government stock Basildon council from taking action.

:06:02. > :06:06.In that period, the site quadrupled in size. It is not local residents

:06:06. > :06:10.fault and that they have been landed in this situation. Now we

:06:10. > :06:15.have had to go through the courts, which has taken time. What impact

:06:15. > :06:22.has that had on the wider constituency? What the law abiding

:06:22. > :06:29.majority want and local people want is the law enforced equitably.

:06:29. > :06:34.Otherwise it is the law-abiding society being prejudiced against.

:06:34. > :06:38.What message would it send out to everybody else? Everybody would say,

:06:38. > :06:46.if they can do it, why can't we get away with it and we would have

:06:46. > :06:53.chaos. Caroline Spelman, has this been a sensible use of money? �22

:06:53. > :06:57.million so far. You could have given them all a house? You cannot

:06:57. > :07:02.have one law for the travelling community and a law for the settled

:07:02. > :07:06.community. Everybody knows, you cannot just occupy a piece of green

:07:06. > :07:13.belt land, green meadow, and rip off the turf and build what you

:07:14. > :07:19.want. You have to have planning for mission. You let plenty of tents in

:07:20. > :07:25.Westminster Square. If I put a tent in Hyde Park you would arrest me?

:07:25. > :07:30.That is a separate issues. It is the same point? No, we need more

:07:30. > :07:34.authorised sites for the travelling community. We provide more? Yes,

:07:34. > :07:39.the new Government said we would provide an incentive to local

:07:39. > :07:44.authorities that provide authorised sites for travellers. They would

:07:44. > :07:48.have greater powers to enforce the law than on unauthorised sites.

:07:48. > :07:54.Basildon has done its bit. But some of the surrounding councils don't

:07:54. > :07:57.have provision for travellers. It is important that we provide for

:07:57. > :08:01.both the travelling community, but make sure the law is upheld for

:08:01. > :08:06.both the settled and the travelling community. They have been there for

:08:06. > :08:10.10 years, where do they go now? they want to settle in Basildon,

:08:10. > :08:15.like you or I want to settle in Basildon. If we were homeless

:08:15. > :08:22.tomorrow we become a priority on the house and Liszt in Basildon.

:08:22. > :08:28.That is if they want to settle her. A lot of these are fixed structures.

:08:28. > :08:32.If that is what they want to do, prioritising the elderly, the

:08:32. > :08:36.children and families. If you want to settle in a local authority area

:08:36. > :08:41.and you are without a roof, you are homeless, you become a priority on

:08:41. > :08:46.that housing list. Isn't that right, they have put a permanent

:08:46. > :08:51.structures which means they are not travel as any more. Why should they

:08:51. > :08:57.be able to do what the rest of us cannot do? We cannot just go up and

:08:57. > :09:01.put houses up where we feel like it? It is important the law is a

:09:01. > :09:08.poll but I wonder if there is a better way for the law to be upheld.

:09:08. > :09:13.I don't know the answer. I have a site opposite might constituency.

:09:13. > :09:18.These pictures are unprecedented. People having Taser gun as used on

:09:18. > :09:22.them, and after this situation has been dealt with, Basildon council

:09:22. > :09:26.will carry out an inquiry to see if they handled it correctly and

:09:26. > :09:30.whether it could have been handled better. It sounds like you would

:09:30. > :09:36.like your policy to be different than the Government's, but you

:09:36. > :09:39.haven't got one? I am just being honest. There is no point in me

:09:39. > :09:43.expressing huge outrage for the sake of doing so. Most people

:09:43. > :09:49.watching this will look at that and think it is not every day you see

:09:49. > :09:55.something like that happening. has taken 10 years? As I understand

:09:55. > :09:59.it, they actually own the site but they're not allowed to build on it.

:09:59. > :10:05.Part of it, they have legitimate planning. It is the part they

:10:05. > :10:10.don't? Absolutely. One can either criticise a particular situation

:10:10. > :10:14.and seek to learn from it, and I think that is what needs to happen.

:10:14. > :10:18.Actually, the problem does go back a long way to a change in the Lord

:10:18. > :10:22.John Prescott made. One of the difficulties is, councils have

:10:22. > :10:26.spent taxpayers' money trying to tackle illegal or unauthorised

:10:26. > :10:30.encampments. When we formed the Government we made a conscious

:10:30. > :10:35.decision to change the law, to make sure we are able to answer this

:10:36. > :10:40.question about how do you make sure there is an enforcement of the law

:10:40. > :10:44.that you can make it work. But, there is plenty of provision for

:10:44. > :10:49.those who want to travel. I think the package the Government has come

:10:49. > :10:52.up with is the right one. We shall see how events develop today and

:10:52. > :10:55.tomorrow as well. Now, listen carefully because this

:10:55. > :10:58.is complicated but yesterday the Backbench Business Committee voted

:10:58. > :11:02.to hold a debate on holding a vote to have a referendum on Britain's

:11:02. > :11:06.membership of the European Union. We reported it on the programme

:11:06. > :11:10.yesterday. Now many backbench Conservatives - and we know what a

:11:10. > :11:13.lot of them think of the EU - may not be over the moon to hear that

:11:13. > :11:16.David Cameron will order his MPs to vote against holding a referendum.

:11:16. > :11:25.The Conservative MP, David Nuttall, who is expected to propose the

:11:25. > :11:31.motion, next week is on College Green. How many Conservative MPs do

:11:31. > :11:36.you expect to join you in this? Already we know from the order

:11:36. > :11:40.paper that there are dozens and dozens of Conservative MPs who have

:11:40. > :11:46.signed this motion. The total number of names on here, we have

:11:46. > :11:53.had double more added this morning and we are up to 16 games to back

:11:53. > :11:58.his emotions. Across all parties! As a Conservative MPs, did you say

:11:59. > :12:06.60 MPs across all parties? Yes, across all parties. The vast

:12:06. > :12:13.majority are Conservatives. There are some Labour members who had

:12:13. > :12:19.signed. What about the Liberal Democrats? Would you be expecting

:12:19. > :12:24.many more of those MPs to sign because it was in their manifesto?

:12:24. > :12:29.Up to now, no Liberal Democrats have signed, but I would expect

:12:29. > :12:33.them to sign it because after all it was in their manifesto. Lots of

:12:33. > :12:39.voters who voted for them will want to see this motion passed next week

:12:39. > :12:45.and they can have a say on this vital issue. I suppose one might

:12:45. > :12:50.ask you did not stand on a platform and the Conservatives did not stand

:12:50. > :12:57.on a platform for an in and out referendum. Do you have a mandate

:12:57. > :13:01.for this? It is 36 years since we had a referendum on this issue. The

:13:01. > :13:05.Conservatives at the last election stood on a platform at wanting to

:13:05. > :13:11.renegotiate powers. This is provided for in the referendum I am

:13:11. > :13:14.proposing. It is in line with what we stood on. I believe if this

:13:14. > :13:19.legislation was passed, it would strengthen the hand of the

:13:19. > :13:24.Government in any negotiations with the rest of the European nations.

:13:24. > :13:28.It won't be binding will it, it will be indicative? I believe if

:13:28. > :13:31.the House of Commons passes this motion, any Government would be

:13:31. > :13:34.hard-pressed to ignore the Democratic will of the British

:13:34. > :13:39.people as expressed through their democratically elected Members of

:13:39. > :13:45.Parliament. You cannot be surprised David Parliament is going to try

:13:45. > :13:51.and obviously get MPs not to support it? What matters is what is

:13:52. > :13:56.good for the country and British businesses who are Bob down by red

:13:56. > :14:00.tape from Brussels. They have to compete on the world stage and it

:14:00. > :14:07.is about British jobs and securing a flourishing future of the three

:14:07. > :14:09.enterprise in this country. That's what is behind this. Imagine if

:14:09. > :14:16.there was the vote and Britain did leave the EU, what would happen in

:14:16. > :14:22.terms of trade? We are long way from that. You are asking people to

:14:22. > :14:28.vote, so what would happen? believe that as a trading nation,

:14:28. > :14:33.most of our trade is with the rest of the world, some of it goes to

:14:33. > :14:37.Europe. When somebody go shopping, do they really look were an item

:14:37. > :14:42.was produced? No, they buy it because it is good quality and at

:14:42. > :14:47.the right price. That is matters when you try to sell abroad. No

:14:47. > :14:52.British housewife looks and says, I am not buying this because it

:14:52. > :14:58.wasn't produced in the European Union.

:14:58. > :15:02.I am going to dispute that, I do look at the like -- label. If

:15:02. > :15:12.people want to buy British, you can look at a food label and with

:15:12. > :15:16.I don't think this is a nightmare. The most important thing is what is

:15:16. > :15:19.in the interest for the country right now. With the crisis in the

:15:20. > :15:23.eurozone, from which we are not immune, it is clear having a

:15:23. > :15:30.referendum about the membership of the European Union is not what is

:15:30. > :15:33.needed now. He has said they would like to have one of the votes on a

:15:33. > :15:38.renegotiating powers which was a promise by the Conservatives. Are

:15:38. > :15:42.you going to keep that promise? will have a referendum, if there

:15:42. > :15:48.was a treaty change which would see more power to Brussels, and that is

:15:48. > :15:54.a commitment to stand by completely. The manifesto promise to

:15:54. > :15:58.renegotiate and repatriate power. Yes, and if you look at their his

:15:58. > :16:01.policies, this important negotiations right now about how to

:16:01. > :16:05.conserve fish stocks, and that could be done with a much better

:16:06. > :16:11.localised approach to make sure that the fishing industry closest

:16:11. > :16:15.to the coastal waters that... You're not repatriating fishing

:16:15. > :16:19.powers and that will you promise to do. It's designed to make sure we

:16:19. > :16:26.have sustainable fish stocks for the future, and we have support

:16:26. > :16:29.amongst other countries. Are there any others? If you take the reform

:16:29. > :16:34.of the Common Agricultural Policy, which is coming up right now, as

:16:34. > :16:38.part of a negotiation, we are do in conjunction with other member

:16:38. > :16:43.states, the detailed implementation of that should be decided in the

:16:43. > :16:48.context of the member states, because farming in Cyprus and the

:16:48. > :16:52.UK are very different to. Why don't you let them have their vote? Why

:16:52. > :16:56.don't the MPs have their boat and see what they say on the issue you

:16:56. > :17:01.stood for at the election? Up at the election we said we would have

:17:01. > :17:05.a referendum... Why won't you let them? I don't think it will help

:17:06. > :17:13.the situation. People are worried about paying their mortgages, and

:17:13. > :17:17.want the economic turmoil on the world stage and within Europe, just

:17:17. > :17:23.be sorted out. No one is saying you should have a referendum now that

:17:23. > :17:26.have it next year. Had it with the independent Scottish referendum.

:17:26. > :17:36.The important point played in that interview, City have a good part of

:17:36. > :17:38.

:17:38. > :17:43.our trade is in a Europe. It would be... Hold on a minute. 93% of our

:17:43. > :17:53.trade would not be affected being inside or outside. It was

:17:53. > :17:53.

:17:53. > :17:59.negotiated by GAT, so they couldn't put tariffs against us. What is

:17:59. > :18:05.your answer to that? 40% of our trade is with other European

:18:05. > :18:10.countries. Which would not be affected. Yes, it would.

:18:10. > :18:14.wouldn't, because of they can't put tariffs against the rules. Not Just

:18:14. > :18:17.parrots, but you seek to ensure a level playing field in a single

:18:17. > :18:25.market. It's an advantage of the countries that operating on a

:18:25. > :18:29.single playing field for the WTO rules cover both barriers. Andrew,

:18:29. > :18:35.and talks have broken down. There is no agreement on trade

:18:35. > :18:41.liberalisation. Yes, there is also its to bring in emerging markets

:18:41. > :18:49.balls-up where is this huge demand for the referendum? I haven't had

:18:49. > :18:53.one business meeting, another new been a couple of days now, and I'd

:18:53. > :19:03.been in the team for many months now, and I haven't had one Business

:19:03. > :19:03.

:19:03. > :19:07.asking me for a referendum on Europe. Right, Now it appears that

:19:07. > :19:10.not a day goes by without more bad news on the economy. Last night the

:19:10. > :19:13.governor of the Bank of England, some might mistake him for the

:19:13. > :19:17.harbinger of doom these days, gave us a sober assessment of the

:19:17. > :19:20.economic situation. Mervyn King said Britain must use the gravity

:19:20. > :19:24.of the global crisis to provoke a bold response. Jo bring us up to

:19:24. > :19:28.speed. Each day there is news of fresh economic woes both at home

:19:28. > :19:31.and abroad. Let's just take a quick snapshot of what we have learnt in

:19:31. > :19:34.the last 24 hours. Yesterday morning, the latest inflation

:19:34. > :19:37.figures were published with the consumer price index hitting 5.2%,

:19:37. > :19:42.and the retail price index a massive 5.6% The figures published

:19:42. > :19:49.yesterday showed that gas prices have gone up by 13% since August.

:19:49. > :19:52.And electricity has gone up by 7.5%. Then last night the Governor of the

:19:52. > :19:55.Bank of England Mervyn King warned that the time is running out to

:19:55. > :20:05.solve the world economic crisis and that the consequences threatened to

:20:05. > :20:07.

:20:07. > :20:10.inflict pain on everyone. Over in Greece, a 48 hour general strike

:20:10. > :20:13.has begun as parliament prepares to vote on the latest round of

:20:13. > :20:15.spending cuts and tax increases. And ahead of the EU Summit this

:20:15. > :20:18.weekend, President Sarkozy said of the crisis facing the single

:20:18. > :20:27.currency that allowing the destruction of the euro is to risk

:20:27. > :20:30.of the destruction of Europe. British people are now going

:20:30. > :20:35.through the severest squeeze on their living standards since the

:20:35. > :20:39.1920s. What are you doing about it? We need to be clear what the

:20:39. > :20:46.Government can and can't do. There are two things which are beyond our

:20:46. > :20:51.control completely. The rising commodity prices for food because

:20:51. > :20:59.of increasing population and rising energy prices. They haven't risen

:20:59. > :21:06.since 2008. Not on energy prices. They are way off the peak. Allow

:21:06. > :21:11.fuel bills are still rising. Energy prices rose in at 2008, the retail

:21:11. > :21:18.price rose as well. They have fallen since. Our retail prices are

:21:18. > :21:25.still rising. So what will you do? There are things you can and can't

:21:25. > :21:30.do. Particularly on energy prices helping people paying their bills

:21:30. > :21:35.despite the scaremongering. We have kept the winter fuel allowance for

:21:35. > :21:38.pensioners at �200. After that two severe winters we have had and

:21:38. > :21:46.possibly another one to come, it's important to help the vulnerable

:21:46. > :21:50.families because it's important for people to stay warm. It doesn't do

:21:50. > :21:54.anything for the squeeze the middle. The most important thing we can do

:21:54. > :22:01.is help people to reduce their energy consumption. The green deal

:22:01. > :22:06.is designed to help everyone. It makes a difference. If you fit

:22:06. > :22:11.homes would double glazing you can halve your energy bill. Your

:22:11. > :22:16.response to the severest squeeze on living standards since 1925 is

:22:16. > :22:21.double glazing? I'm telling you what we can do. What is basically

:22:21. > :22:26.nothing. We need to produce more food because it's in short supply,

:22:26. > :22:30.so the number one priority is to produce more food and to produce it

:22:30. > :22:36.at less cost. That's not going to happen overnight for the are you

:22:36. > :22:41.going to pay for my double glazing? You can draw down �6,000 of capital

:22:41. > :22:49.to suit your property. I'm supposed to do this at a time when average

:22:49. > :22:53.pay is rising by less than 2%, and prices are rising by 6%? It doesn't

:22:53. > :22:58.come out of your pay packet but drawn down over your utility bills

:22:58. > :23:04.over a number of time, because people don't have the capital right

:23:04. > :23:11.now to I play on energy conservation. Basically, other than

:23:11. > :23:16.things on the margin, there is very little the Government can do to

:23:16. > :23:21.ameliorate this terrible squeeze on living standards? We can't change

:23:21. > :23:29.the trajectory of world prices but we can do things to help are

:23:29. > :23:33.vulnerable families. Overall, with food, we need to produce more food

:23:33. > :23:38.because of supply and demand. have said all that. The Governor

:23:38. > :23:42.said last night the root cause of the debt crisis was unsustainably

:23:42. > :23:50.high levels of consumption by governments, companies, and

:23:50. > :23:55.individuals. Who presided over that? I'm not sure. Your hinting at

:23:55. > :24:01.certain conclusions there. I'm not sure we have the financial problems

:24:01. > :24:05.we have now because we spent historically too much on schools,

:24:05. > :24:09.hospitals he's just saying governments, companies and

:24:09. > :24:16.individuals all borrowed too much. And it was unsustainable and the

:24:16. > :24:21.party would have to end. Who presided over this unsustainable

:24:21. > :24:28.borrowing in all three sectors? were in power for 13 years, that's

:24:28. > :24:32.a fact. In relation to private consumption, and spending and its

:24:32. > :24:36.place in our overall GDP, we need to rebalance the economy so we are

:24:36. > :24:44.not reliant so much on consumption, which makes up two-thirds of GDP.

:24:44. > :24:49.We need to build and Grover's other sectors, like manufacturing. --

:24:49. > :24:53.grow those other sectors. In so far as the public sector debt is

:24:53. > :24:57.concerned, clearly, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now were it

:24:57. > :25:02.not for the financial crisis which found itself in the banking sector.

:25:02. > :25:06.Things would be very difficult and different now had not been for that.

:25:06. > :25:10.The key way to resolve these things is to get growth and jobs back and

:25:10. > :25:13.the economy because we had 2.5 7 million unemployed people at the

:25:13. > :25:20.moment and we have to pay them benefits, and they don't pay income

:25:20. > :25:23.tax so, ultimately, it costs us about half a billion pounds, for

:25:23. > :25:28.the more people we get back into work, the quicker we will be able

:25:28. > :25:33.to resolve the issues of the public sector debt. How do you do that but

:25:33. > :25:43.we will come back to that of. We will have the Guess The Year

:25:43. > :25:44.

:25:44. > :25:46.competition and then PM queues for the -- pm at questions. A new

:25:46. > :25:49.presenter has seen the ratings plummet, there have been newspaper

:25:49. > :25:56.reports of feuding talent and the critics are beginning to wonder if

:25:56. > :25:59.the show is past its best. No, we haven't lost our X Factor. How

:25:59. > :26:03.could we? But you've got to feel sorry for poor old Simon Cowell,

:26:03. > :26:06.whose show has it appears. Luckily, me and my Sinitta have got some

:26:06. > :26:10.advice. Simon, don't worry about the songs or the stylists. You can

:26:10. > :26:17.have mine. Forget winning the �27,000 mini. If you want to keep

:26:17. > :26:21.your audience, it's all about having this very special prize.

:26:21. > :26:31.get better every week. Doesn't it? We'll remind you how to enter in a

:26:31. > :26:37.

:26:37. > :26:43.minute, but let's see if you can At least 18 people have died and

:26:43. > :26:53.thousands more injured in these spontaneous riots which the

:26:53. > :26:54.

:26:54. > :27:47.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 53 seconds

:27:47. > :27:50.Governor of California has termed a Nostalgia rules. To be in with a

:27:50. > :27:54.chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our

:27:54. > :27:59.special quiz email address. That's dpquiz@bbc.co.uk. And you can see

:27:59. > :28:03.the full terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.

:28:03. > :28:12.That's bbc.co.uk / dailypolitics. It's coming up to midday here. Just

:28:13. > :28:16.take a look at Big Ben. There it is framed in a beautiful blue sky.

:28:16. > :28:19.It's Wednesday. And that can mean only one thing. Yes, Prime

:28:19. > :28:22.Minister's Questions is on its way. Before we head over to the Commons

:28:22. > :28:27.we've been joined by Matthew Parris of the Times. Welcome back. Good to

:28:27. > :28:31.see you. What should Mr Miliband go on today? In a cornucopia of

:28:31. > :28:36.choice? There will be up to be something about Liam Fox, but my

:28:36. > :28:42.guess is that he will hit the economy had a, and the inflation

:28:42. > :28:45.figures. -- harder. I would have thought he doesn't want to appear

:28:45. > :28:50.to political but would want to appear on the side of ordinary

:28:50. > :28:54.people, or not thinking a lot about Dr Fox, and nothing about the way

:28:54. > :28:59.the Government benefits, pensions, would actually be going up as much

:28:59. > :29:05.as inflation and inflation is going up faster than people thought.

:29:05. > :29:14.would you advise him to go on? There is a cornucopia of issues.

:29:14. > :29:21.What would I go on? Liam Fox is the issue of the moment. For ordinary

:29:21. > :29:28.people? His life work is undone. He's lost his job. Maybe the issue

:29:28. > :29:32.of the moment is not the issue brought up with me on the doorstep.

:29:32. > :29:40.We have not mentioned at this morning for the only you. Didn't

:29:40. > :29:44.you? Matthew just mentioned it. is the bubble personified. So I

:29:44. > :29:52.think it will be the big issue for people at the moment, the economy.

:29:52. > :30:00.But we will wait and see. Mr Miller and, despite -- Ed Miliband never

:30:00. > :30:04.sounds totally in command when it comes to the economy. It's

:30:04. > :30:08.difficult to sound in command when it you are a new Leader of the

:30:08. > :30:11.Opposition. Margaret Thatcher shadow the Chancellor before she

:30:11. > :30:15.became leader of the Conservative Party and she never sounded much in

:30:15. > :30:20.command, either. It comes with experience, and he's got plenty of

:30:20. > :30:24.time. One of the things which strikes me about the political

:30:24. > :30:29.elite on the left and right at the moment is a total absence of

:30:29. > :30:32.credible policy. Alternatives to what's happening at the moment.

:30:32. > :30:37.which makes politics quite interesting in one sense but in the

:30:37. > :30:42.other sense, quite a doll. We are being forced down the same channel.

:30:42. > :30:50.-- quite dull. Caroline would disagree with me on this. There has

:30:50. > :30:57.been, since the crash in at 2008, two quite distinct positions. In

:30:57. > :31:01.some senses, grounded in the party attitudes towards the state and how

:31:01. > :31:08.much it should intervene. I think there are real differences in

:31:08. > :31:11.approach. What is the major difference? Our five-point plan for

:31:11. > :31:14.growth shows the Government doing things for demand and we don't

:31:14. > :31:20.think the state is the answer to everything but I suppose we take a

:31:20. > :31:30.more benign view than ideological, the Conservatives would do. We will

:31:30. > :31:31.

:31:31. > :31:37.come back to that. Let's go to the I am sure the whole House will wish

:31:37. > :31:45.to join me in remembering rifleman DJ ride from the Gurkha Rifles. He

:31:45. > :31:50.was a talented soldier. He was proud to be a Gurkha and it is at

:31:50. > :31:54.times like these we remembered the deep debt of gratitude we owe those

:31:54. > :32:00.brave soldiers. I had meetings this morning with ministerial colleagues

:32:00. > :32:04.and others and I will have such further meetings later.

:32:04. > :32:09.Can I commend and share the views of the Prime Minister concerning

:32:09. > :32:15.our brave military personnel. Is the Prime Minister a word that this

:32:15. > :32:20.year we are commemorating the 75th anniversary of the Jarrow march?

:32:20. > :32:26.Isn't it wrong that even today, people in this country living fear

:32:26. > :32:29.of the door and unemployment? The Government have been in a year and

:32:29. > :32:33.already we are back to the 1980s. Can I ask the Prime Minister

:32:33. > :32:38.question? Will he be supporting workers or will he be sacrificing

:32:38. > :32:43.them? I believe we need to be supporting people and helping them

:32:43. > :32:47.back into work. We should commemorate the Jarrow march, and I

:32:47. > :32:50.noticed it has been commemorated this year. We have a challenge

:32:50. > :32:54.across the country as we see numbers employed in the public

:32:54. > :32:59.sector inevitably go down. And that would be happening whoever was

:32:59. > :33:05.standing here. We have to make sure there are more jobs in the private

:33:05. > :33:10.sector. In the north-east, we seem Nissan is creating 200 jobs,

:33:11. > :33:16.Hitachi have to 500 jobs, the Lear Corporation up to 300 jobs and BT

:33:16. > :33:22.are creating an extra two wounded 80 jobs in South seals. There are

:33:22. > :33:27.half a million more private sector jobs compared at the time of the

:33:27. > :33:36.election. I agree we need to do more.

:33:36. > :33:42.Can I congratulate the Prime Minister... Are on his joint

:33:42. > :33:48.declaration with Canadian Prime Minister on Ocean renewable

:33:48. > :33:52.energies. Obviously we need to make sure we have growth in our economy.

:33:52. > :33:58.May I ask as to what he thinks universities such as Plymouth, who

:33:58. > :34:05.have a very good reputation for marine research, can do to try and

:34:05. > :34:08.help? I commend him for his question, because there are a

:34:08. > :34:15.number of universities across the country, and including Edinburgh,

:34:15. > :34:17.which I visited. They are leaders in marine renewable energy and

:34:17. > :34:21.yesterday the climate change Secretary announced we will be

:34:22. > :34:27.going ahead with the renewable obligations certificates, making

:34:27. > :34:32.sure we Bruce this industry and attract jobs to this country for

:34:32. > :34:38.offshore wind and other renewable technologies. -- boost.

:34:38. > :34:42.Can I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to the riflemen from

:34:42. > :34:48.2nd Battalion the Royal Gurkha Rifles in joining the army was

:34:48. > :34:51.following a proud family tradition. He showed the utmost courage and

:34:51. > :34:56.bravery and our condolences are with his family and friends. The

:34:56. > :34:59.revelations over the last week about what has been going on in the

:34:59. > :35:02.most sensitive department at the heart of the governments are

:35:02. > :35:06.worrying. The former Defence Secretary had an unofficial adviser

:35:06. > :35:12.with access to top officials in the military and foreign governments,

:35:12. > :35:16.funded by undeclared, private donations solicited by him. Yet the

:35:16. > :35:21.Prime Minister says he and Number Ten knew nothing about these goings

:35:21. > :35:26.on for 18 months. How did he allow this to happen?

:35:26. > :35:31.I agree with him, this is an important and serious issue and

:35:31. > :35:35.that is why I set up a proper inquiry, by the Cabinet Secretary.

:35:35. > :35:41.He has produced that report and the report has been published. I do

:35:41. > :35:44.think it is worth, Mr Speaker, recognising in this case, the

:35:44. > :35:48.Secretary of State for Defence recognised he made a mistake,

:35:49. > :35:53.acknowledged team broke the ministerial code and resigned. That

:35:53. > :35:59.is not something that always happened in the last 13 years!

:36:00. > :36:08.Miliband. Mr Speaker, a piece of advice to the Prime Minister, this

:36:08. > :36:13.week of all weeks, show a bit of humility! And the truth is, we

:36:13. > :36:18.still don't know the full facts about his case. About the money

:36:18. > :36:23.trail, about to be in the Government Messer Adam Werritty. It

:36:23. > :36:27.is becoming clear there were a network of individuals who funded

:36:27. > :36:31.Mr Werritty, some with close links to the Conservative Party and

:36:31. > :36:35.others close links to the Cabinet. Giving he says he knew nothing

:36:36. > :36:39.about the arrangements of the former Defence Secretary, can he

:36:39. > :36:43.get this house a categorical guarantee that over the last 18

:36:43. > :36:48.months, no other Government minister has been engaging in

:36:48. > :36:53.similar activities? I think we should have a little bit of

:36:53. > :37:03.humility from the people who gave us cabs for hire, passports of

:37:03. > :37:07.

:37:07. > :37:12.favours, mortgages for maids! Dodgy de Souza. -- dodgy dossier. These

:37:12. > :37:16.are the questions he was meant to ask last week. Perhaps I have some

:37:16. > :37:24.advice for him - if you jump on a bandwagon, make sure it is still

:37:24. > :37:29.moving! Ed Miliband. Mr Speaker, no answers to the questions people

:37:29. > :37:35.want answers. This is a Prime Minister and we see a pattern of

:37:35. > :37:40.activity. He does not ask the tough questions of those around him and

:37:40. > :37:45.when anything goes wrong, it is nothing to do with him. What did he

:37:45. > :37:49.say in the ministerial code? He said, it is not enough simply to

:37:50. > :37:54.make a difference, we must be different. And in the last three

:37:54. > :37:58.months we have seen his Defence Secretary resign in disgrace and

:37:59. > :38:03.his spin doctor arrested. Is that what he meant about being

:38:03. > :38:13.different? He seems to have failed to notice the minister in question

:38:13. > :38:15.

:38:15. > :38:25.has resigned. You're just a bit late!

:38:25. > :38:25.

:38:25. > :38:28.Would my Right Honourable Friend agree that at a time when... Order.

:38:28. > :38:34.Would my Right Honourable friend agreed that at a time when the

:38:34. > :38:38.Governor of the Bank of England has said we are facing possibly an

:38:38. > :38:46.unprecedented economic crisis, it is a good thing this country is

:38:46. > :38:55.still committed to getting debt under control, and to retaining

:38:56. > :39:01.credibility in the financial He makes an important point. People

:39:01. > :39:06.should listen to the Governor of the Bank of England when he served

:39:06. > :39:10.with a lower level of sterling we were on track. But the problems in

:39:10. > :39:14.the Euro area and a marked slowing of the economy have length and the

:39:14. > :39:19.big period that their returns to normality is likely. We should

:39:19. > :39:23.stick to the plan of dealing with debts and deficits. If we listen to

:39:23. > :39:30.the party opposite and added �23 billion to the deficit this year,

:39:30. > :39:35.it wouldn't be Greek economics, it would be freed Economics.

:39:35. > :39:40.Mr Speaker, the Speaker has acknowledged there was collusion in

:39:40. > :39:45.the murder of Pat Finucane. Does he accept in order to get to the

:39:45. > :39:50.bottom of that, we have to get to the top of that? Does he recognise

:39:50. > :39:54.many of us lack confidence that a review by even an eminent lawyer is

:39:54. > :40:01.going to be able to do that, and will he reflect further on the

:40:01. > :40:05.grave misgivings reflected by the family and the Irish Government?

:40:05. > :40:08.course I accept the scepticism. But there was scepticism at the time of

:40:08. > :40:12.the inquiry as to whether that would get to the truth. What

:40:12. > :40:16.matters is the intent of the British Government in uncovering

:40:16. > :40:20.what happened, being frank about it, acknowledging it and apologising

:40:20. > :40:25.for it. You don't need an open- ended inquiry to achieve that. To

:40:25. > :40:28.those who are sceptical, I know they will go on being sceptical,

:40:28. > :40:33.just have an open mind and I believe we can deal with this issue

:40:33. > :40:41.properly. Will a prime Minister join me in congratulating my

:40:41. > :40:47.Gorrell council -- Borough Council in building the first council

:40:47. > :40:51.housing in many years. But also recognise their anxiety the first

:40:51. > :40:55.draft of the new national planning policy framework could render them

:40:55. > :40:59.powerless to defend treasured and green spaces on the urban fringe

:40:59. > :41:03.which are being deliberately targeted by developers? Let me

:41:03. > :41:07.reassure him on the planning policy. We are not making changes to green

:41:07. > :41:13.belt and other protections. He can discuss that with the planning

:41:13. > :41:17.minister. I congratulate all local councils to build the badly-needed

:41:17. > :41:20.houses we need and deal with overcrowding. I am sure he will

:41:20. > :41:24.welcome the announcement that have been made and the Deputy Prime

:41:24. > :41:28.Minister and I have been working closely on this, to make sure use

:41:28. > :41:34.money from the right to buy to build more social housing so we end

:41:34. > :41:39.the scandal of overcrowded housing. Can I thank you and your staff and

:41:39. > :41:42.put on record my gratitude to the Home Secretary and all sides of the

:41:42. > :41:46.House for their support for their Hillsborough families during the

:41:46. > :41:52.debate on Monday. Will the Prime Minister acknowledged governments

:41:52. > :41:58.have made mistakes, that 22 years is 22 years to too long to fight

:41:58. > :42:03.for the truth. If it is proven there was an orchestrated cover-up,

:42:03. > :42:08.justice should still prevail? And those really responsible for the

:42:08. > :42:13.Hillsborough disaster should be brought to book? First of all, let

:42:13. > :42:15.me say to him, last week I promised him the time for his debate would

:42:15. > :42:21.be properly protected and the house would have a proper time to debate

:42:21. > :42:26.it, which it did. Yes we are going to open up those papers and publish

:42:26. > :42:31.the papers as promised, so people can see what was happening. I would

:42:31. > :42:35.say it is important to remember, the Taylor inquiry was a proper

:42:35. > :42:40.investigation, it led to huge changes in the way we manage and

:42:40. > :42:45.arrange football in this country. Hillsborough was a national tragedy,

:42:45. > :42:48.I am sympathetic to the families of the victims and I'm sure there are

:42:48. > :42:53.regrets from all the institutions involved at the time, including the

:42:53. > :42:58.Government. The Prime Minister has giving his backing to national

:42:58. > :43:01.heroes Day this Friday, 21st October. Will he commend hundreds

:43:01. > :43:06.of schools taking part celebrating inspirational role models and

:43:06. > :43:10.raising money for help for heroes? I am very pleased to do that, I am

:43:10. > :43:15.a huge fan. It has been a remarkable story how that charity

:43:15. > :43:18.has grown. I have seen for myself the extraordinary efforts they have

:43:19. > :43:22.made at Headley Court, where they have built this swimming-pool which

:43:22. > :43:26.is used by so many people recovering from their injuries in

:43:26. > :43:32.Afghanistan and elsewhere. I am pleased to support what he says.

:43:32. > :43:36.Miliband. Last week we heard unemployment was

:43:36. > :43:40.at its highest level since the last Conservative Government. This week

:43:40. > :43:44.we heard retail price inflation was at its highest level since the last

:43:44. > :43:51.Conservative Government. Does the Prime Minister still think his plan

:43:51. > :43:56.is working? CPI, the measure of inflation we all now recognise, the

:43:56. > :44:04.last time CPI was as high as this was in 2080 when he was in

:44:04. > :44:08.Government. -- 2008. Inflation is too high, the principal reasons for

:44:08. > :44:13.inflation being high of world food prices, fuel prices, the

:44:13. > :44:18.depreciation of sterling and yes, there was an effect on the increase

:44:18. > :44:23.in VAT, just as there was an effect when he increased VAT at the

:44:23. > :44:26.beginning of 2010. But the reason for increasing VAT is to get on top

:44:26. > :44:30.of the record at this at the last Government left.

:44:30. > :44:36.As always the Prime Minister says it is just like that in the rest of

:44:36. > :44:42.the world. We have the highest inflation than any other EU country

:44:42. > :44:45.apart from Estonia. It is decisions he made, including VAT. The

:44:45. > :44:50.evidence mounts his plan is not working and he just refuses to

:44:50. > :44:55.change course. Lastly, we heard his flagship National Insurance scheme

:44:55. > :44:59.had not worked. Now let me ask him about his flagship regional growth

:44:59. > :45:09.fund which he launched 16 months ago. Can he tell us how many

:45:09. > :45:09.

:45:09. > :45:13.businesses have had cash paid out One of the reasons why Britain has

:45:13. > :45:17.such a difficult situation with inflation is we would be country

:45:17. > :45:22.with the biggest boom and bust of any European country. He cannot

:45:22. > :45:25.hide from that. The regional growth fund will distribute billions of

:45:25. > :45:29.pounds it right across the country and it's a thoroughly worthwhile

:45:29. > :45:36.scheme he should be supporting. don't think he knows the answer, Mr

:45:36. > :45:41.Speaker. Mr Speaker, they have certainly issued lots of press

:45:41. > :45:48.releases about the regional growth fund. 22, but how many businesses

:45:48. > :45:55.have been helped in the last 16 months? Two. Two businesses in the

:45:55. > :45:59.16 months. And how many have gone bankrupt in that time? 16,000. What

:45:59. > :46:03.greater example can there be on the way this Government's plan is not

:46:03. > :46:08.working. We've had 18 months of his economic experiment and what have

:46:08. > :46:12.you got to show for it? More and more people losing jobs, businesses

:46:12. > :46:19.going bust and inflation through the roof, and all we have is a

:46:19. > :46:29.prime minister who is hopelessly out of touch. Because all he wants

:46:29. > :46:33.

:46:33. > :46:38.to do is talk down the economy. He won't mention the fact that there

:46:38. > :46:42.are 300,000 new businesses started. There are 500,000 people who got

:46:42. > :46:49.jobs who didn't have them at the time of the election, but the big

:46:49. > :46:58.question is, if he doesn't like our plan, where is his plan? We now

:46:58. > :47:03.know his plan to deal with our debts is to... Order. Organised

:47:04. > :47:09.barracking is not acceptable for the Prime Minister must be heard.

:47:09. > :47:14.His plan is to add �23 billion to Britain's deficit this year and

:47:14. > :47:24.almost �100 billion up by the end of the parliament, but there is not

:47:24. > :47:30.

:47:30. > :47:32.one single country in Europe that Order! We are grateful to the

:47:32. > :47:39.shadow chancellor followed advice but I would like him up to applied

:47:39. > :47:43.to the House as a whole. The House must come down up. The Prime

:47:43. > :47:49.Minister. The problem is, it was his advice which got us into this

:47:49. > :47:53.mess in the first place. When is he going to learn there is not a

:47:53. > :47:57.single country in a Europe that things you deal with your debts by

:47:58. > :48:03.adding to your debts? That's why nobody listens to him here or in

:48:04. > :48:08.Europe. Yesterday, a report was published in to the serious

:48:08. > :48:12.failings by Nottinghamshire police to protect a young woman who went

:48:12. > :48:16.on to be murdered by her violent partner. Would the Prime Minister

:48:16. > :48:23.agree with me, it is imperative all police forces have the practices,

:48:23. > :48:28.policies and the training to protect women from violent men?

:48:28. > :48:31.absolutely agree. The point she makes is important because some

:48:31. > :48:36.police forces have made huge steps forwards in domestic violence but

:48:36. > :48:43.not all have, and we need to spread that best practice and recognise it

:48:43. > :48:49.across the country. The Association of college principals has just

:48:49. > :48:54.announced the largest fall in college enrolments since 1999 and

:48:54. > :48:57.cite the abolition of EMA as a factor. It's a tragedy of the

:48:58. > :49:00.Government's own making and lies directly at the door of the

:49:00. > :49:05.Secretary of State for Education. What does the Prime Minister going

:49:05. > :49:11.to do to put this right? figures actually show that some end

:49:11. > :49:14.Romans had gone up and if you look at our replacement for EMA, it's a

:49:14. > :49:23.well funded scheme which would be much better targeted on those

:49:23. > :49:29.people in need of. People will get more under EMA. The families in the

:49:29. > :49:31.country are facing very high fuel bills and there's a vested interest

:49:31. > :49:37.by the Big Six feel companies not to allow competition into the

:49:37. > :49:43.market. What of the primer so doing to bring more competition to get

:49:43. > :49:47.prices down? One thing we are doing is insisting the Big Six up to make

:49:47. > :49:52.more of their energy available into a pooling arrangement so new

:49:52. > :49:55.businesses can come into this industry. The last government

:49:55. > :50:00.abolished the pooling arrangements and created a situation with the

:50:00. > :50:06.Big Six, and we don't have to ask who the energy secretary was in

:50:06. > :50:11.that government. We are looking at him. Given the importance of carbon

:50:11. > :50:16.capture and storage, as a way of helping reduce our carbon emissions

:50:16. > :50:20.and also as an exporter will technology to rebalance the economy,

:50:20. > :50:25.will the Prime Minister put his words into action and in short the

:50:25. > :50:29.organic demonstration project goes ahead? What I can say is the

:50:29. > :50:34.funding we set aside for carbon capture and storage is still there.

:50:34. > :50:38.It will be made available. The scheme has not working in the way

:50:38. > :50:45.they intended but the money from the Government, the support, is

:50:45. > :50:50.there. Given the huge savings the nation made by the Cabinet Office

:50:50. > :50:54.is across government without legislation, and a huge financial

:50:54. > :50:57.risks provoked by constant structure reorganisation of the NHS,

:50:57. > :51:02.wouldn't it be better at politicians learn to manage more

:51:02. > :51:08.and medal less, even if the governments find the latter more

:51:09. > :51:13.interesting? He makes an important point. Let me pay tribute to a

:51:13. > :51:17.member for Horsham who does this very patient work at the heart of

:51:17. > :51:23.government and doesn't always get recognised for it but we have

:51:23. > :51:29.reduced management consultants by 70%, saving �870 million. We have

:51:29. > :51:34.spent less on lay bat, temporary labour, spent less on marketing and

:51:34. > :51:38.advertising. These are serious changes to cost things and provide

:51:38. > :51:42.good value for money. None of these things were done under the last

:51:42. > :51:47.government to put up the Prime Minister claimed before the

:51:47. > :51:51.election anyone carrying a knife should go to prison. Has he read a

:51:51. > :51:56.Brooke Kinsella's article in today's Sun newspaper revealing 40%

:51:56. > :52:02.of knife crime is carried out by under 18? Why won't he put them in

:52:02. > :52:05.jail? A we are doing something the last government failed to do,

:52:05. > :52:15.create a mandatory sentence for adults caught with knives to make

:52:15. > :52:17.

:52:17. > :52:23.sure that happens. The British people are simply crying out for a

:52:23. > :52:27.referendum on the future of the Europe. Will he please make history

:52:27. > :52:30.and follow the example of great prime ministers like Winston

:52:30. > :52:37.Churchill and Margaret Thatcher and given the British people a chance

:52:37. > :52:41.to vote on our future with the EU? I completely understand and share

:52:41. > :52:46.the frustration that many have about the way the European Union

:52:46. > :52:51.goes about its business, the bureaucracy, but I have to say, the

:52:51. > :52:55.key focus here is to get on top of the EU budget, keeping Britain out

:52:55. > :53:02.of the bail-out scheme, and make sure the single market is working.

:53:02. > :53:06.Of course, we are committed to the return of powers from Brussels to

:53:06. > :53:14.Westminster. We are committed as a government that if power passes

:53:14. > :53:18.from Brussels there would have to be a referendum. That promise is

:53:18. > :53:26.good for this Parliament and beyond but I don't support holding a

:53:26. > :53:29.referendum come what may. I will not be supporting a motion. We are

:53:29. > :53:36.aware of the courage of our armed forces as they serve and

:53:36. > :53:41.Afghanistan. Last November, Major Ian McCormick from Coleraine in my

:53:41. > :53:44.constituency, died in Helmand province, one of many but he paid

:53:44. > :53:49.the highest price to defend freedom. His commanding officer said today

:53:49. > :53:53.there is a gap in their ranks which no ordinary man can fill. He was

:53:53. > :53:58.the best of his country and we mourn his loss. What the Prime

:53:58. > :54:03.Minister ensure he will review the way the Ministry of Defence

:54:03. > :54:07.prepares its honours list so families will see the entire nation

:54:07. > :54:13.recognises the sacrifice and selflessness of these brave men and

:54:13. > :54:18.women? I will certainly look very carefully at what he says and

:54:18. > :54:23.perhaps arrange a meeting with him and the Minister for other veterans

:54:23. > :54:26.and the honourable member for Blaby. I think it would be a good thing to

:54:26. > :54:32.do. I had the highest possible regard for the professionalism,

:54:32. > :54:36.courage, dedication of our forces are also we paid a high price in

:54:36. > :54:43.Afghanistan and Iraq for all we had to do there, and the whole country,

:54:43. > :54:47.actually, recognises that and feels that very strongly and are looking

:54:47. > :54:53.for new ways to recognise what the armed forces do. That's why there's

:54:53. > :54:56.such strong support for help for heroes and homecoming parades for

:54:56. > :55:03.honours lists, the military government and those sorts of

:55:03. > :55:12.things. I think we should recognise this service and sacrifice.

:55:12. > :55:15.Inaccurate reporting and statements about a European director of that

:55:15. > :55:20.applies to insulin-dependent diabetics seize up to one million

:55:20. > :55:24.such people fearing for their driving licence, but is it not the

:55:24. > :55:28.case, it's for the Department of Transport and how it interprets

:55:28. > :55:33.this directives which will determine whether or not some body

:55:33. > :55:40.loses their licence? When the Prime Minister make the position clear?

:55:40. > :55:43.will try to do that. I understand his concern and it is shared by

:55:43. > :55:50.many insulintreated diabetics across the country who want to go

:55:50. > :55:55.on driving. I can reassure him that, relatively few people will lose

:55:55. > :55:59.their licence as a result of this director's. The DVLA is going back

:55:59. > :56:04.to the European Commission to check its understanding of the

:56:04. > :56:13.interpretation of the minimum standards of this director's. On

:56:13. > :56:22.too many occasion, gold-plated directives should be stopped it.

:56:22. > :56:24.The British airports Authority's is selling Edinburgh Airport. Does he

:56:24. > :56:30.agree it's important others many international routes and services

:56:30. > :56:33.as possible. Why does the honours and the views of the four major

:56:33. > :56:39.transport in Scotland who wish to see the devolution of air passenger

:56:39. > :56:45.duty? We will listen carefully to these arguments balls-up Investment

:56:45. > :56:50.should go and the infrastructure of airports. I know Edinburgh airport

:56:50. > :57:00.has a superb facilities and they are being improved. We will go on

:57:00. > :57:02.

:57:02. > :57:05.listening to those arguments are. Does he agree, private schools a

:57:05. > :57:14.lot well before then she not only support underperforming schools but

:57:14. > :57:18.also encourage them to federate? This should be cross-party

:57:18. > :57:24.initiative and I pay tribute to Lord Adonis who live think is made

:57:24. > :57:29.some extremely important speeches on this issue. There's an

:57:29. > :57:35.opportunity for independent school to sponsor academies in the state

:57:35. > :57:38.sector. I think we can to the breaking down of the barriers

:57:38. > :57:45.between independent and state education. I hope this will have

:57:45. > :57:50.all-party support. A change in the national targets regime have led to

:57:50. > :57:56.the murders his services in Greater Manchester being in the disarray. -

:57:56. > :57:59.- emergency services. The response time of the fire service has

:57:59. > :58:03.doubled in parts of Greater Manchester and the police

:58:04. > :58:08.switchboard is in meltdown. What reassurances can the Prime Minister

:58:08. > :58:12.give to the House they won't be a tragic death because of this

:58:13. > :58:21.failure in the service? I will look carefully at what the honourable

:58:21. > :58:26.gentleman says balls of we are carrying out the �20 billion of

:58:26. > :58:31.savings carried out by the Health Secretary but the depth of between

:58:31. > :58:35.our policies, we are putting those savings back into the NHS whereas

:58:35. > :58:42.the official Labour position is increasing spending in real terms

:58:42. > :58:50.on the NHS is irresponsible balls- up we think it's irresponsible not

:58:50. > :58:57.to do that. David Brown's spending in my constituency, being in

:58:57. > :59:02.receipt of a regional growth and investment, that will help to

:59:02. > :59:07.create 80 new jobs, does the Prime Minister agree with me that despite

:59:07. > :59:13.the my brain and doom-mongering opposite, there are success stories

:59:13. > :59:20.out there, and will he opened the new innovation and enterprise

:59:20. > :59:27.centre at Huddersfield University in the spring? What a delightful

:59:27. > :59:36.invitation. Can I thank the honourable gentleman. Or does. --

:59:36. > :59:41.order. What he has managed to show his the first lot of questions were

:59:41. > :59:47.irrelevant and the second set of questions were wrong. Mr Speaker,

:59:47. > :59:53.the answer the prime minister just gave just isn't good enough. The

:59:53. > :59:57.fact is, despite all his promises, but fewer people carrying knives

:59:57. > :00:03.are going to prison so will we apologise to broken seller and

:00:03. > :00:10.other bereaved families back Brooke Kinsella, for breaking the promises

:00:10. > :00:14.he made that he would take a tougher approach. It's a brave

:00:14. > :00:20.thing, her campaign, when you have lost a campaign in your own family

:00:20. > :00:25.to campaign for change in the law and also the way the police behave,

:00:25. > :00:30.young people behave. I think she is a thoroughly good individual with a

:00:30. > :00:34.very great campaigner. What we are doing under this government is have

:00:34. > :00:43.a mandatory sentence for knife crime and that will be introduced

:00:43. > :00:48.in the forthcoming Bill. My Right Honourable friend, will hear

:00:48. > :00:50.support the Royal College of speech therapist giving voice campaign

:00:50. > :00:56.which is emphasising the central importance of speech, language and

:00:56. > :01:00.communication in tackling a wide range of social issues. I will

:01:00. > :01:05.certainly join my honourable friend doing that. This is an issue way

:01:05. > :01:09.take a close personal interest as well. For anyone who has brought up

:01:09. > :01:13.disabled children, they know the importance of speech therapists and

:01:13. > :01:18.know this not another bum to provide a help and services we need

:01:18. > :01:26.and no getting their services can be extremely tough, so I certainly

:01:26. > :01:32.agree with what he says. The Prime Minister, Leno at officials from

:01:32. > :01:38.other governments were given the impression that the former Defence

:01:38. > :01:45.Secretary's an official adviser represented at the UK government --

:01:45. > :01:51.an official. How many people were misled and rarely provide a list?

:01:51. > :01:57.He should read the report by the Cabinet Secretary and he will find

:01:57. > :02:07.in there all the details the needs about what's Adam Werritty was

:02:07. > :02:19.

:02:19. > :02:26.doing. It comes El from a party to Even the former leader, in the last

:02:26. > :02:31.two months, has got �120,000 for speeches to Credit Suisse, Visa and

:02:31. > :02:41.he told us he was going to put money into the banks. We did not

:02:41. > :02:48.

:02:48. > :02:58.know he was going to get it out so Does the Prime Minister accept that

:02:58. > :03:07.

:03:07. > :03:13.moves towards will undermine the He makes an extremely important

:03:13. > :03:17.point, which while we believe the logic of a single currency drives

:03:17. > :03:22.fiscal integration, it poses particular threats and risks to

:03:22. > :03:27.those of us who want the single market to work properly. It is

:03:27. > :03:33.important to argue for safeguards, to make sure the single market

:03:33. > :03:38.remains properly protected. Of course, in the longer term it maybe

:03:38. > :03:43.there will be further moves towards further treaties and the rest of it.

:03:43. > :03:48.They may be opportunities to bring further powers back to Britain and

:03:48. > :03:52.then maybe powers Best opportunities for a recommend --

:03:52. > :04:00.referendum. We have so much to do to get Europe to sort its problems

:04:00. > :04:05.out. Michael Meacher. The statutory register of lobbyists, will the

:04:05. > :04:09.Prime Minister also ensure so- called think-tanks, whose

:04:10. > :04:13.propaganda is clearly aimed to manipulate both ministers and the

:04:13. > :04:17.public for their own ends, should be required to reveal who

:04:17. > :04:22.ultimately funds them, so we all know whose interests they really

:04:22. > :04:27.represent? We are committed to having a statutory register and it

:04:27. > :04:33.does need to be put in place. In needs to include think tanks and

:04:33. > :04:38.other organisations. It also needs to include the lobby that owns the

:04:38. > :04:48.party opposite, lock, stock and trade-union barrel - the trade

:04:48. > :05:01.

:05:01. > :05:06.There was a switch to the economy, and a lot of argy-bargy. Whether

:05:06. > :05:10.there was any wisdom, is a matter for you to judge.

:05:10. > :05:16.It is split into two on Liam Fox and the economies.

:05:16. > :05:23.Lorna Taylor says! David Cameron is a disgrace, he did not answer the

:05:23. > :05:30.questions, I am so angry". From Phillip Taylor in Cheshire"

:05:30. > :05:35.very angry, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

:05:35. > :05:41.John says people are concerned about Liam Fox more than the

:05:41. > :05:46.economy and unemployment. David Holmes in Newcastle" I am

:05:46. > :05:52.impressed by David Miliband for the first time ever, had David Cameron

:05:52. > :05:57.on the back foot on the economy". This from Simon Green in

:05:57. > :06:04.Southampton"somebody shut Ed Miliband up, his party was in power

:06:04. > :06:12.for 13 years and their policies have put this company on its knees".

:06:13. > :06:16.This one from someone in author, David Cameron is in Government and

:06:17. > :06:21.not in opposition. The Prime Minister accuses the

:06:21. > :06:24.opposition of talking down the economy, has he forgotten all he

:06:24. > :06:29.has done for the last six years is precisely that.

:06:29. > :06:33.I am glad John from Edinburgh is watching, because it means Scotland

:06:33. > :06:39.is watching. He could be watching for London

:06:39. > :06:44.feed of the Sky television system. Is there any mileage, Matthew

:06:44. > :06:50.Parris in Liam Fox? I wouldn't have thought so from the party political

:06:50. > :06:55.point of view. Everybody knows Mr Murphy was rather slow in getting

:06:55. > :06:59.on to that particular bandwagon. I think the Prime Minister's joke

:06:59. > :07:05.that it was too late to join the bus because it had stopped had hit

:07:05. > :07:08.home. I think the story remains interesting, and the question Ed

:07:08. > :07:12.Miliband asked, why didn't the Prime Minister know about this, it

:07:12. > :07:17.is an important question but it is not important for the party-

:07:17. > :07:23.political dogfight. So no party political advantage? He don't only

:07:23. > :07:27.as questions for party political advantage, believe it or not!

:07:27. > :07:33.Prime Minister's Questions, you do. You don't only, you keep butting

:07:33. > :07:36.into me today Andrews. You also have a function to scrutinise what

:07:36. > :07:42.Government is doing. Ed Miliband asked, what guarantees can the

:07:42. > :07:45.Prime Minister give, the kind of practices that shadow advisory

:07:45. > :07:51.operation that Liam Fox had in place, what guarantees can he give

:07:51. > :07:56.no other minister has that kind of operation in place and what is he

:07:56. > :07:59.doing to provide the public with confidence. What the public don't

:07:59. > :08:04.like in my view and that is what is reflected in commence in my

:08:04. > :08:13.constituency, they don't like power and influence they cannot see.

:08:13. > :08:18.Transparency is key. Questions are remaining un answered. I am sorry

:08:19. > :08:25.to interrupt you again, but do you have your phone on? Do you have a

:08:25. > :08:31.phone on you? Is it on? I don't think so. It is interfering with

:08:31. > :08:39.sound. I had to interrupt you there. If you have it on, can you switch

:08:39. > :08:43.it off because Ahsan people will be very grateful. How can you

:08:43. > :08:48.guarantee another minister is not running his own shadow operation?

:08:48. > :08:51.The rules have changed regarding ministerial conduct. We have to be

:08:51. > :08:57.transparent about the meetings we have with people in the department,

:08:57. > :09:00.any hospitality we receive, any gifts we receive and put it in the

:09:00. > :09:10.public domain. None of that would have stopped George

:09:10. > :09:12.

:09:12. > :09:19.Papaconstantinou? Anyone would have seen who you were meeting on.

:09:19. > :09:25.Nothing was done about it. What the Prime Minister launched, what more

:09:25. > :09:29.safeguards can be put in place? So we make sure ministers abide by the

:09:29. > :09:38.ministerial code. By the letter and the spirit of it. At the end of the

:09:38. > :09:43.day, what a great wrong was done? I understand the stupidity. I

:09:43. > :09:49.understand the bizarre arrangement to have someone almost helping you

:09:49. > :09:54.to have your own shadow policy, but what wrong was done? We don't know,

:09:54. > :09:58.because we don't have the answers to the questions. There are a set

:09:58. > :10:01.of facts for potential wrongdoing and the public need to be given

:10:01. > :10:06.confidence there hasn't been wrong doing. And if there has, action

:10:06. > :10:11.will be taken. As things stand at the moment, you cannot tell me what

:10:11. > :10:14.great wrong was done? On a basic level in terms of the facts we do

:10:14. > :10:19.know, if you asked most people up and down the country, do you think

:10:19. > :10:28.it is acceptable, is it right for someone to take one of their mates

:10:28. > :10:32.along to a meeting? That is down as stupid. What is wrong? That is very

:10:32. > :10:38.serious. There aren't many people around the Cabinet table who have

:10:38. > :10:44.special brands protection. That is because not everybody is dealing

:10:44. > :10:53.with serious matters for the Ministry of Defence. That is why it

:10:53. > :10:57.is wrong to take you made a long to meetings. Also, Adam Werritty's

:10:57. > :11:03.financial backers, they have shelled out a lot of money for no

:11:03. > :11:06.discernible influence. And that is their problem. His senior Cabinet

:11:06. > :11:11.Minister was trying to build up a power base and was probably failing,

:11:11. > :11:16.but he shouldn't have been allowed to try in that way. Let's go back

:11:16. > :11:21.to the economy, which I suggest effects your constituents more than

:11:21. > :11:27.the fate of Dr Fox. You have a situation where unemployment is at

:11:27. > :11:33.a modern high and inflation is at a modern hype. We used to call that

:11:33. > :11:38.stagflation, the economy is in growing and inflation is high. Did

:11:38. > :11:42.you ever thing under this coalition you would return to stagflation?

:11:42. > :11:49.need to address absolutely, the question on how to get the economy

:11:49. > :11:53.growing again. It on blocks of the situation, the economic situation

:11:53. > :11:57.we are in. The decisions we have taken to tackle the debt we have

:11:57. > :12:05.inherited has restored Britain's credit rating. Had we not done that,

:12:05. > :12:11.interest rates would be higher. You scoff, but it is true. It is true

:12:11. > :12:21.Mervyn King has endorsed this, the UK's plan to reduce debt is the

:12:21. > :12:22.

:12:22. > :12:27.right plan. Like a man on a salary of 20,000, lived on a salary of

:12:27. > :12:32.30,000 for 10 years. Given countries who were not regarded as

:12:32. > :12:40.having credible reduction plans... Have high interest rates. Can I ask

:12:40. > :12:44.the question? Greece, Italy, France, Spain, now paying more for their

:12:44. > :12:52.Government bonds and we pay far ours? The payment term on our debts

:12:52. > :12:57.is longer. It is not for France? You have talked about Greece, Italy

:12:57. > :13:00.and Spain. The term on our debt is longer than it is for those

:13:00. > :13:05.countries collectively. Interest rates were falling when we left

:13:05. > :13:09.Government. One of the biggest drivers we have low interest rates

:13:09. > :13:13.is we're not in the eurozone and thank God Gordon Brown does not

:13:13. > :13:17.take us into that. Of course we have got to reduce the deficit, but

:13:17. > :13:23.you cannot do that without growth. That is the problem, we don't have

:13:23. > :13:28.growth. We saw record borrowing in August, the highest level of

:13:29. > :13:36.borrowing for a Government. Over the course of this Parliament, we

:13:36. > :13:40.will see it �46 billion higher. your standards, that is the good

:13:40. > :13:46.thing. You want borrowing to be higher? They say they have a plan

:13:47. > :13:52.and it is working. But it isn't working. We have a plan, Matthew

:13:52. > :13:57.Parris coins this important phrase, it is payback time for the UK. We

:13:57. > :14:02.have got to pay back and grow the economy. Perfectly possible to do

:14:02. > :14:07.both things. You are not doing it. We are doing it. Everybody agrees

:14:07. > :14:12.growth is needed, the Labour Party keep shouting Winnie growth, growth,

:14:12. > :14:15.why isn't the Government doing anything about growth. Ensure

:14:15. > :14:24.privately George Osborne and David Cameron are worried about gross.

:14:24. > :14:29.Nobody knows how to get it. Money has been Ponton to the economy, --

:14:29. > :14:37.pumped into the economy. I don't agree with this idea nobody knows

:14:37. > :14:40.what to do about it. We are quite a consumption led economy. The drop

:14:40. > :14:44.in confidence which fell off a cliff after the Comprehensive

:14:44. > :14:49.Spending Review was announced, has had an impact on the man, so people

:14:49. > :14:56.have not been spending. If you look at the measures in a five-point

:14:56. > :15:02.plan... If you look at what happened, one of the points of it

:15:02. > :15:09.was to reduce VAT, they raise you imposed on families this year. When

:15:09. > :15:17.we did that at the end of financial -- to 1008. The last time we had a

:15:17. > :15:20.financial crisis we did that, we put �11 billion, and people went to

:15:20. > :15:26.spend �8 billion into the economy and it led to an increase. In terms

:15:27. > :15:34.of the extra borrowing at that time, it is a favourite of yours to ask

:15:34. > :15:40.for year and get a specific figure, but I do know... I am not worried

:15:40. > :15:46.about 2008, I am asking you now, this Government will borrow around

:15:46. > :15:56.125 billion, more than planned, which is 120 tears. It is about 10%

:15:56. > :15:58.

:15:58. > :16:02.of the GDP. How much would you borrow? If you look at the Alastair

:16:02. > :16:09.Darling plan, look at the gap between the parties going forward.

:16:09. > :16:14.There is a gap of 8 billion. Alastair Darling plan did not

:16:14. > :16:19.include a cut in VAT? It was a different situation in a different

:16:19. > :16:28.scenario. If you are Max out on your credit card, you don't borrow

:16:28. > :16:33.more money. We are forgetting there are emerging markets, China, Brazil.

:16:33. > :16:37.China's growth is falling as well. Germany exports more to China than

:16:37. > :16:40.the whole of Europe put together. If there isn't an opportunity for

:16:40. > :16:46.British-made products to export to those markets - it we cannot see

:16:46. > :16:50.that, we are staring an opportunity in the face, an export-led recovery

:16:50. > :16:54.is what the Government... Let's finish on the departments of

:16:54. > :17:02.business which is run by the coalition Government. Citing

:17:02. > :17:12.bureaucratic snags is conceding the 1.4 billion Growth Fund has

:17:12. > :17:13.

:17:13. > :17:17.dispersed 1.5 �8 million. Why his The answer is you have got to give

:17:17. > :17:27.value for money. If they don't provide that, we aren't any

:17:27. > :17:28.

:17:28. > :17:31.position... Caroline, the money has not gone through. Now did you know

:17:31. > :17:36.that if you're a taxpayer, you pay �107 every year to farmers. The

:17:36. > :17:38.money forms part of the Common Agricultural policy, or CAP. And it

:17:38. > :17:43.accounts for 40% of EU spending. Many governments have tried to

:17:43. > :17:46.reform it. None have ever really succeeded. But the EU have decided

:17:46. > :17:56.to have another go. We asked one farmer to explain why he thinks the

:17:56. > :18:02.

:18:02. > :18:07.CAP project -- protect us from volatility in the market and at the

:18:07. > :18:12.same time protects the consumer from volatility in food prices and

:18:12. > :18:15.enables farmers to farm on the hills and other disadvantaged areas

:18:15. > :18:18.where they provide a valuable landscape and other assets which

:18:18. > :18:28.are incredibly important to the British public and also to tourism

:18:28. > :18:30.

:18:30. > :18:36.We quite like the proposals from the CAP reform, they encourage

:18:37. > :18:42.young Popple -- people do come into the industry and more research and

:18:42. > :18:46.development. We worry about the complicated bureaucratic nature of

:18:46. > :18:49.the proposals and we also worry about the fact that they might well

:18:49. > :18:53.mean we are less competitive up rather than more competitive as a

:18:53. > :18:58.result of the reforms. We need to be more market orientated so that

:18:58. > :19:02.we become less reliant on payments from Europe for the it's incredibly

:19:02. > :19:06.important to talk about the challenges ahead of us. Sir John

:19:06. > :19:11.Beddington, the chief scientist of the Government, says we have to

:19:11. > :19:16.produce more food in the next 50 years than we are produced in the

:19:16. > :19:22.last 2000 due to the increased population in the world. One

:19:22. > :19:27.proposal is to set aside more land and that, to me, seems totally

:19:27. > :19:36.wrong given the challenges we face and the difficulty in achieving the

:19:36. > :19:40.increase in food production as it is with a land we have. As farmers,

:19:40. > :19:45.we would prefer it to derive our livelihoods in the market place but

:19:45. > :19:48.as things stand today, at least half farmers would be out of

:19:48. > :19:52.business were it not for the CAP payment. It's essential bigger

:19:52. > :19:58.markets to work properly and that's the real challenge for government.

:19:58. > :20:03.Gwyn Jones joins us now. Listening to that film, we have been talking

:20:03. > :20:08.about food prices, people struggling to make ends meet and

:20:08. > :20:11.they will say why can't farmers accept cuts, too? We absolutely

:20:11. > :20:17.agree people are going to a very tough time at the moment and it's

:20:17. > :20:20.very difficult. We also accept the Budget in Europe will be cut.

:20:20. > :20:26.However, if we continue with food production within the European

:20:26. > :20:31.Union, we are governed by the Common Agricultural Policy and

:20:31. > :20:36.important thing for us is to make sure that its tears farmers away

:20:36. > :20:43.from payments towards markets, and also make sure farmers in the UK

:20:43. > :20:46.are not disadvantaged against competitors in the EU. Can we

:20:46. > :20:53.afford to produce food on that sort of scale if we need that much

:20:53. > :20:58.subsidy? Economically, it doesn't make sense. Do you accept that

:20:58. > :21:03.argument? To an extent. The biggest problem we have is markets in many

:21:03. > :21:09.areas just don't work for the the dairy industry in this country, we

:21:09. > :21:15.have been four pence per litre below the European and world prices,

:21:15. > :21:20.and also 27th out of 27 countries in Europe, so it's not just in milk,

:21:20. > :21:25.but markets just don't work properly. You say farmers don't

:21:25. > :21:31.want to be dependent on subsidies. Will that ever happen? How far away

:21:31. > :21:34.are we from get into that position? With the last two reformers have

:21:34. > :21:37.been slowly going in that direction but the real concern about this

:21:37. > :21:42.particular proposal it takes us backwards actually add isn't going

:21:42. > :21:47.to help to get us into a more competitive position. So we can

:21:47. > :21:53.move away from payments from Europe. How old do you feel about wealthy

:21:53. > :21:56.landowners getting the same sort of money as less well-off people

:21:56. > :22:01.question is the right Prince Charles receives �1.3 million in

:22:01. > :22:05.subsidies, for example? Generally, we are disadvantage in this country

:22:05. > :22:10.if there was capping on payments, simply because our farms are

:22:10. > :22:13.generally bigger than the ones in Europe. We have some very large

:22:13. > :22:18.bombs in the horticultural sector and they are suffering incredibly

:22:18. > :22:21.at the moment. They have millions of turnover and yet they are not

:22:21. > :22:27.making profits and not covering their capital investments due to

:22:27. > :22:34.the markets paying them less than the cost of production. We need to

:22:34. > :22:44.produce more food but why are you taking more land out of production?

:22:44. > :22:45.

:22:45. > :22:48.We are not. Well, more Greening. It's not my proposal. We have

:22:48. > :22:54.proposed a reform which is a backward-looking and what we need

:22:54. > :22:56.to do is produce more food sustainably. First there goes the

:22:56. > :23:00.Asian is tomorrow for that we have said these proposals are

:23:00. > :23:08.disappointing but we are going to work really hard to get a better

:23:08. > :23:15.deal for UK farmers, taxpayers and consumers. What can you offer?

:23:15. > :23:24.Times Arpad and why we are subsidising the pig prices rise? --

:23:24. > :23:31.times are hard. -- big price rises. What is the dealer you're going to

:23:31. > :23:35.be fighting for exactly? What is the deal? A greener CAP, because it

:23:35. > :23:40.gives other public goods in return for the money also you not only

:23:40. > :23:44.good food of good quality, say be produced, a reasonable price, but

:23:44. > :23:50.the farmer takes measures to protect the environment for the we

:23:50. > :23:55.want to get it recognised. pleased the Secretary of State

:23:55. > :24:01.agrees more land should be taken out of it production, that's good.

:24:01. > :24:06.Given the negative stance the Government has towards the CAP, we

:24:06. > :24:11.worry how effective the negotiations are going to be, and

:24:11. > :24:19.how will we get a more competitive position for us as British farmers?

:24:20. > :24:26.We have to fish there. -- finish there. Thank you for coming in.

:24:27. > :24:32.Caroline, do you remember this? looks like you run to the hills?

:24:32. > :24:35.Not at all, we have to reform the Forestry Commission, but that the

:24:35. > :24:40.regulator and a major seller of timber into the market and in this

:24:40. > :24:45.day and age, you can't be the regulator and a major player, so we

:24:45. > :24:52.have to reform those kinds of conflicts of interest. So the

:24:52. > :24:56.Lady's Not For turning yet? No. I am ending the public consultation

:24:56. > :24:59.on this and I take full responsibility for that for the

:24:59. > :25:03.it's quite clear from the early responses to the consultation that

:25:03. > :25:10.the public and many honourable members are not happy with the

:25:10. > :25:20.proposals we set out. I am sorry. We got it wrong. But we have

:25:20. > :25:25.

:25:25. > :25:27.listened to people's concerns. the lady was for turning after all.

:25:27. > :25:30.U-turning over government proposals to sell off the forests. It's

:25:30. > :25:33.amazing what a campaign led by a national newspaper, some rural

:25:33. > :25:36.campaign groups and the Ramblers can do. And we are joined by the

:25:36. > :25:38.Whitehall Editor of that national newspaper, the Daily Telegraph,

:25:38. > :25:41.whose current campaign is aiming to defeat the Government's planning

:25:41. > :25:45.policy. Before I come to you, are you going to do any you turns on

:25:45. > :25:51.the planning laws? The point I wanted to make, the convicted

:25:51. > :25:56.interest about being a regulator and adviser... That's history. Are

:25:56. > :25:59.you going to U-turn on the planning laws? No, because they don't plan

:25:59. > :26:05.for sustainable development. Everyone watching this programme

:26:05. > :26:11.can think of where housing estates have been bolted on two villages

:26:11. > :26:18.without the infrastructure in place. Surely you don't want to keep laws

:26:18. > :26:21.which keep sustainable development. So your campaign will fail?

:26:21. > :26:27.think it's a short-term problem for the Government, getting the economy

:26:27. > :26:33.to grow but long term it will be a problem for rural areas. People are

:26:33. > :26:37.concerned about building on green areas. Why are there four times as

:26:37. > :26:42.many Treasury officials were among the plans as your officials? It

:26:42. > :26:46.blows apart the whole argument it's an unbiased document for the first

:26:46. > :26:49.of all, to be perfectly clear, Protection Fault green belts,

:26:50. > :26:59.outstanding national beauty. National parks, none of this

:27:00. > :27:01.

:27:01. > :27:04.changes. Rural areas is the concern. It's not DEFRA planning. Do you

:27:04. > :27:11.really want the existing laws that produce unsustainable development

:27:11. > :27:20.to continue under formed? You said you don't. You have waved the white

:27:20. > :27:25.flag of the whole issue. I haven't up. This is fiction. You are

:27:25. > :27:34.rewriting planning rules which have been in place for 50 years.

:27:34. > :27:41.don't take policy documents to your sunbed. Communities department, in

:27:41. > :27:45.charge by Eric Pickles, we work with local committees because we

:27:45. > :27:51.believe sustainable develop at the heart of the public system will

:27:51. > :27:54.produce a better result. Sustainable development is a brick

:27:54. > :28:04.wrapped in something else. More building on the countryside. You

:28:04. > :28:07.

:28:07. > :28:12.have got to bring back brownfield In 1987 per... Let me finish. In

:28:12. > :28:19.1987, it is economically socially and environmentally, the three

:28:19. > :28:26.pillars Of sustainable development. It's a lawyers' charter, simple as

:28:26. > :28:34.that of. Will you put it to a vote? It's a consultation. It was like

:28:34. > :28:44.being at Wimbledon there and I felt like the referee. That's it. We

:28:44. > :28:44.

:28:44. > :28:50.have to leave it there. Thanks to our guests. Will be the result of