:00:27. > :00:31.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics, live from
:00:31. > :00:35.Westminster, where the whiff of rebellion is in the air. The Prime
:00:35. > :00:37.Minister is trying to stave off a rebellion in his own ranks on
:00:37. > :00:41.Monday's vote in the Commons on a referendum about our relationship
:00:41. > :00:48.with Europe. Around 60 Tory backbenchers seem ready to mutiny
:00:48. > :00:50.and vote for such a referendum. Meanwhile, the eurozone crisis
:00:50. > :00:53.heads to its climax, President Sarkozy rushed to Berlin last night,
:00:53. > :00:56.missing the birth of his child, as the chances of France stitching
:00:56. > :01:06.together a comprehensive response to the sovereign debt crisis began
:01:06. > :01:08.
:01:09. > :01:15.to recede. Compared with that, the Commons vote is a sideshow. But, if
:01:15. > :01:19.Europe falters, will the eurosceptics be emboldened? We will
:01:19. > :01:23.be looking at whether or not to get rid of stamp duty. Now the house
:01:23. > :01:26.price boom is over. Has it become a tax that is putting a brake on the
:01:26. > :01:36.British economy? And, we'll find out just how close I managed to get
:01:36. > :01:38.
:01:38. > :01:44.to George Clooney at last night's And joining us for the duration the
:01:44. > :01:47.Director of the Institute of Fiscal Studies - Paul Johnson. So, the big
:01:47. > :01:51.story today is Europe - both the economic crisis abroad and the
:01:51. > :01:54.political rebellion brewing here at home. David Cameron seems
:01:54. > :01:59.determined to make a show of strength over Monday's vote on
:01:59. > :02:03.whether to have a referendum on Europe. There would be three
:02:03. > :02:05.options. Staying in, pulling out or staying in but with a substantial
:02:05. > :02:15.repatriation of powers from Brussels, which I seem to remember
:02:15. > :02:16.
:02:16. > :02:26.was the Tory policy at the last Paul Johnson, how much of our taxes
:02:26. > :02:38.
:02:38. > :02:43.We are spending something like 12 billion a year - gross
:02:43. > :02:48.contributions to the EU. That is going up over the next few years.
:02:48. > :02:58.We get a fair chunk of that back. A few years ago, our net contribution
:02:58. > :02:59.
:03:00. > :03:04.was about 3 billion. That is rising fast over the next few years.
:03:04. > :03:08.our net contribution is beginning to rise. That is the money that is
:03:08. > :03:15.going out of the country in net terms. Is that down to the fact
:03:15. > :03:19.that, unlike France and Italy and Spain, we do not get much out of
:03:19. > :03:24.the Common Agricultural Policy? get a lot less out of it than other
:03:24. > :03:32.countries, given the scale of what we put 10. Early in the 1980s we
:03:32. > :03:36.negotiated that rebate. -- put in. That is because the rebate is going
:03:36. > :03:43.down. �10 million is a lot of money. The EU budget is only 1% of
:03:43. > :03:48.national income. We spend 40%. The EU budget is one 40th the size of
:03:48. > :03:54.an ordinary national budget. Euro-sceptic case is not on the
:03:54. > :03:57.cost of membership. There are other things they are not happy about.
:03:57. > :04:02.There are a whole range of other things that being in Europe is
:04:02. > :04:07.about. There is the cost of membership for the UK. We make
:04:07. > :04:11.contributions to other countries across the EU. It is the other
:04:11. > :04:16.stuff. 4 billion would be a rounding error in national accounts.
:04:16. > :04:19.In terms of money spent, it is relatively small money. This debate
:04:19. > :04:21.on the referendum was going to be next Thursday but the powers-that-
:04:21. > :04:31.be moved it forward so David Cameron and William Hague could
:04:31. > :04:39.
:04:40. > :04:42.attend. Leading Tories say there is a panic. If the Commons did vote to
:04:43. > :04:46.have a referendum, and it looks highly unlikely that it will do
:04:46. > :04:50.that, just because of the arithmetic, even if they did, it
:04:50. > :04:55.would not be binding on the Government. It would ramp up the
:04:55. > :05:01.pressure on ministers to become much more Euro-sceptic. Just give
:05:01. > :05:05.us the background. In 1975, but Bay City Rollers were topping the
:05:05. > :05:09.charts. Jim began fixing it, the Tories chose a woman to lead their
:05:09. > :05:14.party and Britain embraced Europe in a referendum. That asked whether
:05:14. > :05:21.we should remain part of the Common Market which we joined a few years
:05:21. > :05:24.earlier. Back then, 67% of Brit said yes. Jump forward to 2006 and
:05:24. > :05:28.the Conservative leadership promised a referendum on the Lisbon
:05:28. > :05:31.Treaty. It change the constitutional framework of the EU.
:05:31. > :05:35.By 2009, the treaty had been ratified across Europe and the
:05:35. > :05:39.Tories dropped the pledge. Thereafter, David Cameron promised
:05:39. > :05:48.a referendum lock - were crying a referendum on any future transfers
:05:49. > :05:57.of power. -- requiring a referendum. The Lib Dems promised an in are out
:05:57. > :06:01.referendum on EU membership. Monday's debate motion calls for a
:06:01. > :06:06.referendum by May, 2013, with three options but the public. Keep the
:06:06. > :06:11.status quo, leaving the EU on reforming the terms of the UK
:06:11. > :06:16.membership of the European Union. Joining us now is James Landale.
:06:16. > :06:20.Support is growing for the summer as Conservative MPs, isn't it?
:06:20. > :06:26.is. The issue of Europe has been pretty quiescent throughout much of
:06:26. > :06:30.the leadership of David Cameron. By and large, by trying to keepers of
:06:30. > :06:34.the front pages and trying to enjoy the fact that many Conservative
:06:34. > :06:41.Euro-sceptic MPs have had different issues. Some are concerned about
:06:41. > :06:43.repatriating powers, others are more concerned with issues such as
:06:43. > :06:49.the Human Rights Act and the European Court of Human Rights.
:06:49. > :06:53.What this court next Monday does is, it allows the coalescence of all
:06:53. > :06:57.the Euro-sceptic concern to come together on one issue and one vote,
:06:57. > :07:01.I think that is why the Government is so concerned about it and that
:07:01. > :07:06.is why they're trying to head it off as much as they can. Is it wise
:07:06. > :07:13.for David Cameron to make it a show of strength? That is what he has
:07:13. > :07:15.been advised not to do. We do not know how hard the Government will
:07:15. > :07:21.order its MPs to back the Government's position on Monday.
:07:22. > :07:25.That is quite fluid. They are saying they expect MPs to back the
:07:25. > :07:29.Government. There is a lot of mainstream Conservative MPs who
:07:29. > :07:33.think that one option for the Government would be to ease off the
:07:34. > :07:38.whipping. It is a backbench issue and it was raised through a
:07:38. > :07:41.backbench procedure. There was a petition asking for a debate. Leave
:07:41. > :07:45.it in that context and say to ministers and others within
:07:45. > :07:51.government, if you are concerned about it, just do not turn up on
:07:51. > :07:56.the day. There is a lot of many of them in -- manoeuvring going on.
:07:56. > :08:05.What a bad arrangements in the other parties? We know the Labour
:08:05. > :08:10.Party will oppose the motion. -- about other arrangements in other
:08:10. > :08:14.parties? There will not be a vote in favour of the whole house of
:08:14. > :08:18.Commons calling for a vote on membership of the European Union.
:08:18. > :08:22.The question is, how many Conservative MPs feel they can
:08:22. > :08:26.oppose the Government on this because they feel so strongly about
:08:26. > :08:32.it and constituents feel so strongly about it and they feel it
:08:32. > :08:37.really needs to happen. We are now joined by Emma Reynolds, who speaks
:08:37. > :08:43.for the Labour Party on Europe and Andrew Rossendale he stood up
:08:43. > :08:49.yesterday at Prime Minister's Questions, telling that the British
:08:49. > :08:54.people are crying out for a referendum. About understanding the
:08:55. > :08:58.Labour position, when it comes to this vote, what will Labour do? Is
:08:58. > :09:03.there a three-line whip to vote against? There is a three-line whip
:09:03. > :09:08.to vote against having a referendum on our membership in the European
:09:08. > :09:14.Union. It was not in our manifesto, nor in the manifesto of the
:09:14. > :09:19.Conservative Party. It was a new once promised by the Lib Dems.
:09:20. > :09:24.other kind of Lib Dem promise is there? It is normally sitting on
:09:24. > :09:34.the fence! We think it is a distraction. The economy is that
:09:34. > :09:35.
:09:35. > :09:40.lies in, -- flats lining. People should not be concentrating on
:09:40. > :09:46.theirs. Our front bench will not defy the three-line whip. Some well.
:09:46. > :09:52.You have some rebels. A small minority of Labour MPs, I think,
:09:52. > :10:02.will vote for the nation. Andrew Rosenfeld Kite you have lost pretty
:10:02. > :10:03.
:10:03. > :10:07.heavily. -- the motion. This is a fundamental issue facing our
:10:07. > :10:11.country. It has gone on for years. The British people deserve the
:10:11. > :10:17.right to have their say in a referendum. I do not understand why
:10:17. > :10:24.it keeps whipping politics apart. We should be allowed to had a --
:10:24. > :10:29.allowed to have a say on this. agree with you but she used -- but
:10:29. > :10:35.you should not be able to determine that. Have the Lib Dems told to how
:10:35. > :10:39.they will vote? I have not spoken to the Lib Dems. What a do know is,
:10:39. > :10:45.however the House of Commons votes, deep people of Britain want to
:10:45. > :10:52.decide the future of this country. -- the people. I believe that David
:10:52. > :10:58.Cameron is doing the right thing for Britain. His heart is the same
:10:58. > :11:05.as the rest of us. He has a three- line whip against you put up his
:11:05. > :11:10.heart is no Rennie yours. If he pledges at some point the British
:11:10. > :11:15.people have the chance to vote, he will satisfy many British people.
:11:15. > :11:24.Is it Labour policy on Europe to repatriate any powers? We have said
:11:24. > :11:29.our membership of the European Union is a vital matter of national
:11:29. > :11:34.interest. We need to make sure we have the strong voice in the
:11:34. > :11:39.European Union to make sure that whatever comes out of this crisis,
:11:39. > :11:45.our businesses and jobs depend on the eurozone. Whatever comes out of
:11:45. > :11:49.it, we still have our vital national interest protected in
:11:49. > :11:55.Europe by further deepening beat single market. Her I understand
:11:56. > :12:01.that. Where do you go after this? - - I understand that. The interest
:12:01. > :12:07.will be the size of the rebellion you can muster. The eurozone is
:12:08. > :12:10.meeting this weekend. Signs do not look good to me for any deal being
:12:10. > :12:15.done. Otherwise Nicolas Sarkozy would stay and watch the birth of
:12:15. > :12:19.his child. Where do you go after this? At what point does the
:12:19. > :12:25.British Parliament allow the British people the right to decide
:12:25. > :12:28.their own destiny. It has gone on for decades and decades. The House
:12:28. > :12:32.of Commons needs to allow the British people to make a decision
:12:32. > :12:37.about our long-term future. It is not just about the crisis at the
:12:37. > :12:41.moment, it is about the long-term position of the United Kingdom with
:12:41. > :12:46.regard to the European Union. The option of trade and co-operation is
:12:46. > :12:54.what the vast majority of people want. I want trade and co-operation
:12:54. > :12:59.- a sensible relationship that suits Switzerland. As I understand
:12:59. > :13:04.it, the third option is not a Swiss position. Switzerland is not a
:13:04. > :13:08.member of the EU. The third option is, we stay in that have a more
:13:08. > :13:16.arm's-length relationship. Can you clarify that? Be third option has
:13:16. > :13:23.to be discussed as to what bad exactly means. So, the third option
:13:23. > :13:28.is not staying in? We have to change our relationship
:13:28. > :13:31.fundamentally. This is new. I want to get this right. As I had
:13:31. > :13:35.understood it and BBC has been reporting, the options and his
:13:35. > :13:42.referendum would be a vote to come out, vote to stay in on the
:13:42. > :13:49.existing arrangements, Status quo, will vote to stay in or having a
:13:49. > :13:55.substantial repatriation of powers? If we can achieve that, fantastic.
:13:55. > :14:00.There is only one other option. That is the problem. Why have a
:14:00. > :14:10.referendum when you know you cannot deliver? We promised a referendum
:14:10. > :14:14.on the constitutional treaty. We had negotiations, I was working in
:14:14. > :14:20.the Foreign Office at the time... If we have the political will to
:14:20. > :14:26.achieve this, then we can achieve it. We cannot give up before we
:14:26. > :14:30.start. If we leave, we will need to go through an arrangement of trade
:14:30. > :14:37.co-operation. That would be no different you a third option. I
:14:37. > :14:42.want to come back to run important point on Labour policy. -- an
:14:42. > :14:48.important point. It is now conservative coalition policy to
:14:48. > :14:55.urge the eurozone to go full fiscal integration - made to transfer of
:14:55. > :14:59.payments from north to south and fall economic policy to be
:14:59. > :15:04.controlled from the centre. What is the policy of Labour? George
:15:05. > :15:09.Osborne has said for the eurozone to be successful, they need some
:15:09. > :15:15.kind of fiscal integration. That will only be the eurozone 17
:15:15. > :15:20.members and not the wider European Union. I did not know that but I'm
:15:20. > :15:24.grateful to find out, as you and your government are urging, that
:15:24. > :15:30.changes the whole dynamics of Europe. Britain will be on the
:15:30. > :15:35.wrong side of the block of 17 that will always vote together. That is
:15:35. > :15:40.why, if our membership is being questioned, that weakens our boys
:15:40. > :15:44.in the European Union. I am in favour of us still retaining the
:15:44. > :15:52.relationship we have. You just said you are in favour of the position
:15:52. > :15:56.of Osborne of the deepening fiscal integration. Of the eurozone 17.
:15:56. > :16:06.is a 17 Boat block. There are differences on the single market
:16:06. > :16:11.
:16:11. > :16:14.The crisis is the real news at the moment, there is a real problem
:16:14. > :16:19.going on and that is where the focus of UK and European attention
:16:19. > :16:23.should be. If that is not sorted out... The EU is by far and away
:16:23. > :16:27.our biggest trade June -- trading partner and if they meet real
:16:27. > :16:30.trouble, our economies won't be far behind.
:16:30. > :16:37.You don't think there is going to be a solution by Monday?
:16:37. > :16:42.I think the signs are not good. Mr Sarkozy would not even stay for the
:16:42. > :16:45.birth of his child, which shows you how bad things are.
:16:45. > :16:55.Last night saw the premiere of George Clooney's latest film, The
:16:55. > :16:58.
:16:58. > :17:02.Ides Of March, a dark thriller It says we are going to help people
:17:02. > :17:06.get an education, create national unity, treat them a trade and get
:17:06. > :17:10.them out of debt for their college loans. Where does that fail? That
:17:10. > :17:17.is exactly right, but if you're going to do it, it do it. Make it
:17:17. > :17:21.mandatory, not voluntary. Mandatory. Everybody who turns 18 or graduates
:17:21. > :17:25.high school gives two years of service to his or her country, and
:17:25. > :17:29.for that your college education is paid for. The beauty of it is that
:17:29. > :17:38.everybody over the age of 18, or pass the age of eligibility will be
:17:38. > :17:42.for it. And all of the others? Can't vote. Too young. For proof
:17:42. > :17:48.policy, there. The man who wrote the film with George Clooney is
:17:48. > :17:52.Beau Willimon, he is in the studio. I saw the film, it was great. It
:17:52. > :17:57.was also really dark, politically, showing what happens behind the
:17:57. > :18:01.scenes. Is it really like that, or was this a more cynical take?
:18:01. > :18:05.really is like that. We are keeping our focus on the darker side of it,
:18:05. > :18:11.but I have worked on a number of campaigns over the years, going
:18:12. > :18:16.back to a Senate race in 1998, Bill Bradley in 2000, Hillary Clinton,
:18:16. > :18:21.Howard Dean. I based my writing of the play and the movie on all of
:18:21. > :18:25.those experiences and things I saw first hand, or variations of first
:18:25. > :18:30.hand. I suppose everybody presumes there is a little bit of dirty
:18:30. > :18:36.tricks that goes on on the campaign trail. That's understandable. This
:18:36. > :18:40.went a stage further. The moral that I took away is that you cannot
:18:40. > :18:45.be a nice guy in politics, only the bad boys won. A lot of people would
:18:45. > :18:51.see that as a cynical attitude but I see it as a realistic one. In
:18:51. > :18:55.America, we want diametrically opposed things from politicians. We
:18:55. > :19:05.want them to be bastions of moral integrity but also looked to be
:19:05. > :19:08.
:19:08. > :19:11.effective -- effective leaders. To be effective leaders, you have do
:19:11. > :19:16.sometimes be abhorrent. When you have someone who is willing to
:19:16. > :19:19.break the rules, or the law, to get something accomplished, and we want
:19:19. > :19:23.to praise them for their ability to get things done, and on the other
:19:23. > :19:27.hand, we want to destroy them, because they have not projected
:19:27. > :19:31.that image of moral integrity on to the wild, we are being hypocrites
:19:31. > :19:34.as an electorate -- onto the world. As much as they are being
:19:34. > :19:38.hypocrites as people. You are saying that leaders have to be
:19:38. > :19:44.flawed, if they are prepared to go and stop at nothing to get the big
:19:44. > :19:48.prize? They are human beings like the rest of us. If you are married
:19:48. > :19:57.and in a long-term relationship, the statistics are that you have
:19:57. > :20:00.cheated, or you will. Those are the odds. When a politician does that,
:20:00. > :20:07.we suddenly find them unfit to lead. One could argue that we should hold
:20:07. > :20:11.them to a higher standard than we told ourselves, -- hold ourselves,
:20:11. > :20:15.but we need to see that we are also because, all contradictory. They
:20:15. > :20:19.have a great deal of power but they are human beings. Those campaigns
:20:19. > :20:23.you work on, were there different levels of taking that to the nth
:20:23. > :20:28.degree? Was some of the guys you worked with worse than others when
:20:28. > :20:34.it became too behaviour in terms of ethical behaviour? -- when it came
:20:34. > :20:37.to behaviour. It focuses on those behind the scenes, and because they
:20:37. > :20:46.are not in the public light, they have more latitude to do things
:20:46. > :20:52.that are wrong, or illegal, or ethically tenuous. Politicians find
:20:52. > :20:56.themselves in that position all the time. Good politics is about Pope
:20:56. > :21:03.compromise -- about compromise at the end of the day. Every time you
:21:03. > :21:08.do that on an ideological landscape, you are redrawing the line in the
:21:08. > :21:12.sand. That sort of behaviour can pleat into your personal life and
:21:12. > :21:16.sense of moral integrity -- bleed into. So that the redrawing of the
:21:16. > :21:20.line becomes a habit. People I have worked for have been great
:21:20. > :21:26.candidates like Howard Dean, Bill Bradley, Hillary Clinton. They are
:21:26. > :21:34.great leaders. Do I have first-hand experience of any of them doing
:21:34. > :21:38.incapacity things, no. I have to interrupt, sorry to do this. We are
:21:38. > :21:47.getting reports from Libya that Colonel Gaddafi has been wounded
:21:47. > :21:50.and captured by the rebel forces in Libya itself. This is coming out of
:21:50. > :21:56.the National Transitional Council. They say they have Colonel Gaddafi
:21:56. > :22:01.in Libya. These reports are unconfirmed. They are being
:22:01. > :22:08.reported by a Reuters. We are getting other reports, we have not
:22:08. > :22:14.yet got it confirmed. We will bring you this as soon as we get it.
:22:14. > :22:18.He is captured and winded in both legs, taken away by ambulance --
:22:18. > :22:25.and wounded. But it is not confirmed. But it looks like
:22:25. > :22:30.something is happening. Sorry to interrupt with that news. If you
:22:30. > :22:34.were watching, Jo was boasting about how she was going to speak to
:22:34. > :22:38.George Clooney. I was cut off before I finish that
:22:38. > :22:42.sentence! This is how close she got. Look at
:22:42. > :22:51.this. Can't you see me?
:22:51. > :22:56.The closest she got was, George! I am over here! Thank you very much.
:22:56. > :22:59.Thank you so much. Our guest of the day is Paul Johnson from the
:22:59. > :23:04.Institute of Fiscal Studies, which published a report on the number of
:23:04. > :23:09.areas of taxation it thought right for reform. One of them was stamp
:23:09. > :23:15.duty, a relic of the 17th century. A bit like us. It was only meant to
:23:15. > :23:21.be temporary, just like income tax. Damn you, William Pitt. Was it the
:23:21. > :23:25.younger all the elder? Who brought in income tax. A cash-strapped
:23:25. > :23:29.Treasury isn't keen on giving up its big earners.
:23:29. > :23:33.If you are lucky enough to be able to afford one, it is just something
:23:33. > :23:37.you have to pay when you are buying a house. But have you ever thought,
:23:37. > :23:43.what the hell is stamp duty? It is a weird one. Like many taxes, it
:23:43. > :23:49.was brought in to fund the war, in 6094, William and Mary's reign, a
:23:49. > :23:54.war against the French -- 16 at 94. It was only meant to come in for
:23:54. > :23:57.four years. All these years later, it is still there, because like
:23:57. > :24:02.most Chancellors, they think, this is quite nice, we will hang on to
:24:02. > :24:12.this. Best estimates suggest stamp duty land tax let's the Treasury
:24:12. > :24:16.
:24:16. > :24:20.hang on to �6 billion a year. But Raised a lot of politicians out
:24:20. > :24:25.there accept the fact that stamp duty and the way it is levied is
:24:25. > :24:32.well past its sell-by date. Maybe not get rid of it but they need to
:24:32. > :24:39.be substantial reforms. The charge is three form. -- threefold. If you
:24:39. > :24:44.buy a house that is �1 over 250,000, you will pay 3%, not 1%. At �1
:24:44. > :24:49.could cost you �5,000. That can't be right. What we are saying, there
:24:49. > :24:59.should not be that slapper approach. It is a disincentive. You should be
:24:59. > :25:02.
:25:02. > :25:06.looking at it in the same way. -- Regional differences mean half the
:25:06. > :25:09.stamp duty revenue comes from a quarter of transactions that in --
:25:09. > :25:14.are in the south-east. And it is an extra financial burden on first-
:25:14. > :25:17.time buyers, which taken altogether, suggests leading stamp duty as it
:25:17. > :25:21.is is bad for the housing market. Trouble is, with a cash-strapped
:25:21. > :25:25.government, it seems now is not the time to cut such a big source of
:25:25. > :25:28.revenue. The Treasury is raising the tax is and we need those to pay
:25:28. > :25:31.for public services. If we were looking at anything, it would be
:25:32. > :25:36.help for small businesses, those parts of the economy that will
:25:36. > :25:40.create growth. The Treasury's position is that any and every tax
:25:40. > :25:44.cannot always be under review. And all of them could be up for reform.
:25:44. > :25:48.In the current economic climate, having spoken to officials and a
:25:48. > :25:55.Treasury Minister, it is fair to say, stamp duty reform is not, at
:25:55. > :26:03.the moment, top of their agenda. We are joined by the Tory MP
:26:03. > :26:08.Is it realistic to get rid of stamp duty in any way, given it has
:26:09. > :26:13.become a huge money-spinner for the Treasury? No but two reforms are
:26:13. > :26:20.possible. I have been pushing to see stamp duty paid by people
:26:20. > :26:23.selling the very expensive houses. If a company is not carrying on
:26:23. > :26:29.business, if it consists of a single property, when it is sold,
:26:29. > :26:34.it should be taxed as... That is a London problem. Yes, but it would
:26:34. > :26:37.bring in a lot of money, and we need to extend capital gains tax to
:26:37. > :26:43.non-residents. That would make people at the top pay a fair share.
:26:43. > :26:48.The other issue is the one that you said in your clip, above 250,000.
:26:48. > :26:53.In my constituency of Rochester and Strood, many family detached homes
:26:53. > :27:00.are worth 250, 300,000, and it is very difficult to sell those. Many
:27:00. > :27:04.people have to take a prize at 249995, because of this economic
:27:04. > :27:07.cliff -- a price at. Do you get the indication that the Treasury is
:27:07. > :27:12.interested in any of that? Potential it. I think the Treasury
:27:12. > :27:19.would want to do that in a revenue neutral way, charging a bit about
:27:19. > :27:22.1% on those immediately below 250,000. I also think the Treasury
:27:22. > :27:25.appreciates these taxes tend to reduce transactions. When Labour
:27:25. > :27:29.put in the big increases, the property market was booming. Given
:27:29. > :27:34.the difficulty of transactions in the property market, if you cut
:27:34. > :27:40.rates temporarily, it could lead to more transactions and revenue, and
:27:40. > :27:45.house sales feed into the wider economy. It is a very damaging tax,
:27:45. > :27:49.it reduces the number of transactions, it increases rather
:27:49. > :27:53.than reduces volatility in prices. The approach is absurd because it
:27:53. > :27:57.makes it very difficult to sell. There was a report earlier this
:27:57. > :28:02.week worrying that too many people occupied houses too big for them.
:28:02. > :28:07.One reason, it was so expensive to sell the house. The whole housing
:28:07. > :28:12.tax system needs reforming. It is unfair and regressive and the way
:28:12. > :28:16.it impacts on people. I don't see tax reform being high up the
:28:16. > :28:22.Government's agenda, but I live to be surprised. We have depict the
:28:22. > :28:32.guess the year when a bomb yesterday. -- we have to pick. From
:28:32. > :28:33.
:28:33. > :28:39.Roger Langley from Ipswich, the mud is yours. That is it, thanks to all
:28:39. > :28:46.of our guests -- the mark is yours. Thanks to Paul Johnson. I will be