:00:28. > :00:31.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Almost half of
:00:31. > :00:36.Conservative backbenchers defy David Cameron to vote against the
:00:36. > :00:41.Government and back a referendum on our relationship with Europe. We
:00:42. > :00:45.will be assessing the fall-out from this massive Tory rebellion.
:00:45. > :00:50.Nicolas is sick of being criticised by David. David says he will not
:00:50. > :00:57.shut up about Europe. Silvio says he wants no lessons from Angela and
:00:57. > :01:03.Nicolas. When the hissy fits are over, who will wield power in
:01:03. > :01:08.Europe? It costs �4.2 billion per year, but
:01:09. > :01:13.what are we doing to tackle the obesity epidemic? It is as stupid
:01:13. > :01:18.to tell me to pull myself together as pointing at an alcoholic lying
:01:18. > :01:25.in the street and telling them to quit drinking.
:01:25. > :01:32.Coming up in the next half an hour, all of that. Derek Hatton is with
:01:32. > :01:37.us for the duration. He supported the militant tendency when he was
:01:37. > :01:43.leader of Liverpool City Council. I hear they were big in the 80s!
:01:43. > :01:48.David Cameron also faced his big rebellion. How bad was it? Worse
:01:48. > :01:58.than they thought. Let's look at what happened in closer detail.
:01:58. > :01:58.
:01:58. > :02:03.David Cameron easily won the vote by 183 -- 483 to 111. 79 rebelled
:02:03. > :02:08.against him, plus two tellers and two abstentions. Another 12 were
:02:08. > :02:14.absent, giving 81 rebels. Even John Major never faced such a rebellion
:02:14. > :02:21.over Europe when he was Prime Minister. The biggest he faced was
:02:21. > :02:27.in 1993141 MPs voted against the Maastricht treaty. -- in 1993, when
:02:27. > :02:34.41 MPs. 50 of the rebels on un peace since 2010, it so David
:02:34. > :02:40.Cameron could have a rebellious party on his hands. -- 50 of them
:02:40. > :02:45.are new MPs. People are saddened and disillusioned by being fobbed
:02:46. > :02:50.off, as they see it, by the political elite, who always seem to
:02:50. > :02:54.find a reason to stop them having their say. The eurozone is clearly
:02:54. > :02:58.in crisis. To pile upon that uncertainty the further uncertainty
:02:58. > :03:04.of a referendum on leaving the European Union, when half the
:03:04. > :03:07.foreign direct investment coming into Britain comes from the
:03:07. > :03:10.European Union and half of our exports go out to the European
:03:10. > :03:16.Union, that is not responsible action for Her Majesty's Government
:03:16. > :03:21.to take. I am not prepared to go back on my words to my constituents.
:03:21. > :03:26.And I am really staggered, really staggered, that loyal people like
:03:26. > :03:30.me have been put in this position. If Britain's future as an
:03:31. > :03:35.independent country is not a proper matter for a referendum, then I
:03:35. > :03:38.have absolutely no idea what is. This is about whether or not we
:03:38. > :03:42.give the people, the hundreds of thousands of people that want to
:03:42. > :03:47.have a chance to discuss this, whether we give them the chance to
:03:47. > :03:52.have a debate. At the moment, to have a debate which might lead to a
:03:52. > :03:56.referendum about whether Britain is going to go into the European Union
:03:57. > :04:01.or leave it, that is such a massive distraction from the real issues
:04:01. > :04:05.that this country and the rest of Europe has to address. It is for us
:04:05. > :04:10.backbenchers to say to Her Majesty's Government, stiffen your
:04:10. > :04:19.sign used, summon up the blood, imitate the action of a tiger and
:04:19. > :04:26.that is how you should behave towards our European partners.
:04:26. > :04:30.was the flavour of the debate. We're getting reports that the
:04:30. > :04:35.Prime Minister is that a military base in Bedford. That is quite
:04:35. > :04:40.ominous. Maybe he is following Gaddafi? If we hear anything from
:04:40. > :04:44.him, we will give you the clip. We hear he is being interviewed about
:04:44. > :04:49.the follow-up from the debate. We are joined by George Young, leader
:04:49. > :04:55.of the House of Commons, Ann Tim Montgomerie, editor of Conservative
:04:55. > :05:01.Home website. How bad is this rebellion? How significant for
:05:01. > :05:05.David Cameron? I think it is very significant on two levels. Firstly,
:05:05. > :05:08.to have 81 of your own MPs rebelling is a significant defiance.
:05:09. > :05:12.Plus the abstentions. And the abstentions. Once you have rebelled
:05:12. > :05:16.once, you get into the habit of defying your Government and you can
:05:16. > :05:21.do it more easily the second or third time. I think it is about
:05:21. > :05:25.Europe as well. Some people say the Conservative Party is more united
:05:25. > :05:30.on Europe than it has ever been but that is not true. You could have
:05:30. > :05:34.fooled me! The centre has definitely moved into a euro-
:05:34. > :05:38.sceptic direction. With the new intake? We used to have Michael
:05:38. > :05:42.Heseltine on one side, the enthusiasts, and then the euro-
:05:42. > :05:46.sceptics on the other side. The new division is a majority of euro-
:05:46. > :05:49.sceptics wanting fundamental and partial renegotiation. But a
:05:49. > :05:53.significant number want to leave the European Union altogether. That
:05:53. > :05:57.division is as big as the old one, but different. It can only be
:05:57. > :06:01.resolved by a referendum. David Cameron cannot resolve it. You can
:06:01. > :06:06.manage it better but it has to be resolved by a vote from the British
:06:06. > :06:15.people and only then will they stop talking about this issue. If you
:06:15. > :06:22.add up the abstentions, 50% of the non- pourri role Tories defied a
:06:22. > :06:26.three-line whip. -- non- pay roll Tories. David Cameron always knew
:06:26. > :06:34.that there would be a spread of issues on this issue and it got one
:06:34. > :06:39.defy last night. -- has spread of opinions on this issue and it got
:06:39. > :06:43.quantified last night. Opinions have shifted. David Cameron always
:06:43. > :06:48.said he wanted fundamental reform of the EU, refashioning our
:06:48. > :06:55.membership and bringing back powers. To that extent, I think the party
:06:55. > :06:59.is united on the broader objections. What there is disagreement on is
:06:59. > :07:02.the means. The House of Commons last night said that the concept of
:07:02. > :07:07.a three-way referendum now was not the right way to reach the
:07:07. > :07:11.objective that most Conservative share. Let's get this straight. How
:07:11. > :07:20.many people wake up this morning, really giving a damp about being in
:07:20. > :07:27.Europe? It is weighed down on anybody's priority list when they
:07:27. > :07:33.wake up. In real terms, if you said to people... If you said to people
:07:33. > :07:37.about Europe, they would side what I say. Either we are in, or we are
:07:37. > :07:41.out. The problem is the mish-mash in the middle which we have had for
:07:41. > :07:46.20 years which is so counter- productive. I think where you are
:07:46. > :07:51.wrong is that European issues are way down the pecking order when it
:07:51. > :07:55.is expressed in abstract terms, but when we connected with the economy,
:07:55. > :07:59.we cannot control our borders, human rights laws, then people
:07:59. > :08:04.actually care a lot. The idea of the European Union does not excite
:08:04. > :08:07.them but the way it affects our future does. I want to look at the
:08:07. > :08:13.Tory party but we do have footage of the Prime Minister are reacting
:08:13. > :08:16.to the vote this morning. politics you have to confront the
:08:16. > :08:20.big issues, rather than trying to sweep them under the carpet and
:08:20. > :08:24.that is what we did yesterday. This has always been a difficult issue
:08:24. > :08:28.for my party and it always will be but the important thing is doing
:08:28. > :08:31.the right thing for the country and it would not be right for the
:08:31. > :08:40.country to have an outright referendum and all the rest of it.
:08:40. > :08:43.What I would say from last night, on my part there is no blood but, -
:08:43. > :08:46.- no bad blood. I understand why people feel strongly and we will go
:08:46. > :08:51.forward together and tackle the difficult decisions that the
:08:51. > :08:54.country faces. The Prime Minister with his military escort in the
:08:54. > :08:59.background! And some big military hardware! Maybe things are
:08:59. > :09:05.happening and we do not know about! Tim Montgomerie, you wrote in the
:09:05. > :09:09.Guardian this morning. You think this goes beyond Europe. You think
:09:09. > :09:15.that David Cameron has very few favours in the bank with his
:09:15. > :09:20.backbenchers. Talking-to the rebels yesterday, lot of them were divided
:09:20. > :09:23.and found this difficult. But some of them took relish in poking the
:09:23. > :09:27.Prime Minister in the eye. Lot of Conservative MPs do not feel part
:09:27. > :09:33.of the Government. You said they enjoyed the rebellion and actively
:09:33. > :09:37.distrusted him. They do not trust him to repatriate any powers.
:09:37. > :09:43.did an opinion poll of grassroots members and Conservative MPs are
:09:43. > :09:46.Conservative Home. We asked whether they thought to the Prime Minister
:09:46. > :09:49.was serious about repatriating powers and 64% said they did not
:09:49. > :09:53.think so. That is why people were voting for this motion to put
:09:53. > :09:59.pressure on the Prime Minister. party does not trust the leader.
:09:59. > :10:06.that issue. He this is a rebellious Parliament, firstly. There have
:10:06. > :10:11.been more rebellious, especially among the newer MPs. Lots of the
:10:11. > :10:18.MPs that I have listened to, those that voted against the party last
:10:18. > :10:21.night, it did so with reluctance, thinking long and hard about it.
:10:21. > :10:26.64% of the Tory MPs do not trust the Prime Minister to deliver the
:10:26. > :10:30.bacon when it comes to Europe. back to what Derek has said. The
:10:30. > :10:36.majority of the party is worried about other issues. They are
:10:36. > :10:39.delighted the Prime Minister is putting grows on the agenda. If you
:10:39. > :10:43.look at the opinion polling of the Prime Minister, he is way ahead of
:10:43. > :10:50.his party but Ed Miliband is way behind. The standing of the Prime
:10:50. > :10:55.Minister is robust. Let me ask you this. The Conservatives... There
:10:55. > :10:58.was no mention of repatriation of powers. We got it wrong on the
:10:58. > :11:02.Daily Politics. There was no mention of repatriation of powers
:11:02. > :11:06.in the Tory manifesto. What it said was that if there was another
:11:06. > :11:15.Lisbon Treaty, another move of giving more power to brothels, then
:11:15. > :11:20.you would call a referendum on that. -- to Brussels. If the Germans used
:11:20. > :11:26.the eurozone crisis to create a fiscal union, deeper integration,
:11:26. > :11:31.which will require changes to the treaties, would you use that as a
:11:31. > :11:34.window to repatriate powers? Prime Minister was asked this
:11:34. > :11:37.yesterday in the House of Commons and the answer was that we do not
:11:37. > :11:42.know what the Germans will propose. Also we do not know if there will
:11:42. > :11:45.be total agreement between the European countries and it is simply
:11:45. > :11:50.too soon to pose that question because we do not know what the
:11:50. > :11:54.treaties will do. It is your party's policy now. Your party's
:11:55. > :11:58.policy is to have a more deeper, integrated fiscal union for the
:11:58. > :12:05.eurozone. That is what you are pushing and it is what the Germans
:12:05. > :12:12.want. So if that happens, will you use that all were you not use that
:12:12. > :12:20.as an opportunity to attend to repatriate powers? -- or will you
:12:20. > :12:26.not? If there was an attempt... are kidding yourself. I need to pin
:12:26. > :12:30.him down on this. That is not what I am asking. I know about your
:12:30. > :12:35.policy. I am asking if there are treaty changes to accommodate your
:12:35. > :12:39.Government's policy and the aspirations of the Germans, to
:12:39. > :12:44.create a fiscal union within the eurozone, is that an opportunity
:12:44. > :12:48.for you or is it not to repatriate powers? The Prime Minister answered
:12:48. > :12:53.that question. It depends on what is proposed, how far it gets and
:12:53. > :12:56.whether that is the right time to press our agenda, or Wetherby Road
:12:56. > :13:06.priority is sorting out the eurozone crisis, which everybody
:13:06. > :13:06.
:13:06. > :13:09.wants to do. -- or whether it the priority. Nick Clegg has said there
:13:09. > :13:15.would be no repatriation of powers and renegotiation is not on the
:13:15. > :13:21.agenda. Is that true? Look at the coalition agreement. It looks at
:13:21. > :13:27.the balance of competencies within the EU. You of a Cabinet minister
:13:27. > :13:31.that we have here. Can renegotiation happen or not happen
:13:31. > :13:36.this side of the next election? could happen depending on what is
:13:36. > :13:39.proposed in the treaty. Do you think it will? It depends what the
:13:39. > :13:43.Germans propose, whether people agree and whether it is the right
:13:43. > :13:47.time to push the issue. I know what I am defeated and will not get an
:13:47. > :13:51.answer. Thank you. While Parliament is squabbling over
:13:51. > :13:59.how closely we should be involved in Europe, the eurozone continues
:13:59. > :14:02.to flounder. There is another summit in Brussels on Wednesday.
:14:02. > :14:06.David Cameron is trying to come up with the big enough package to
:14:06. > :14:13.tackle the eurozone sovereign debt crisis. They are running out of
:14:13. > :14:21.time and the solution has to be found before the G20 meeting on
:14:21. > :14:23.November 3rd and 4th, including a Barack Obama. An important
:14:24. > :14:29.confidence indicator came up this morning showing that Europe is on
:14:29. > :14:34.the brink of another recession, no more than in France. They have real
:14:34. > :14:38.problems. When the dust has settled, we could be looking at a radically
:14:38. > :14:45.different EU. We thought it was time to bring out the Daily
:14:45. > :14:50.Politics wedding cake, this time at the prospect of a two or three-tier
:14:50. > :14:57.Europe. Sitting on the top of the cake, Angela Merkel and Nicolas
:14:57. > :15:01.Sarkozy. But he clashed with David Cameron, saying that he was sick of
:15:01. > :15:06.being criticised and being told what to do. Nicolas Sarkozy had
:15:06. > :15:10.tried to insist that the meeting should be restricted to the 17
:15:10. > :15:15.eurozone leaders. But David Cameron won has battled to make sure that
:15:15. > :15:19.all 27 member states would attend, but only for one-hour meeting
:15:19. > :15:23.before the 17 broke away separately the final negotiations. Angela
:15:23. > :15:27.Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy have also looked down from their lofty
:15:27. > :15:32.position to tell Silvio Berlusconi to take more radical measures to
:15:32. > :15:37.tackle Italy's huge debt. He hit back after being humiliated in this
:15:37. > :15:46.way. Now there are suggestions that the two or three-tier Europe could
:15:46. > :15:55.be formalised as soon as December with a soupy eurozone excluding
:15:55. > :16:01.members like the UK. -- Super eurozone. Some members might like
:16:01. > :16:11.to join this but it could leave the UK with less influence. Nick Clegg
:16:11. > :16:18.
:16:18. > :16:24.I have always advocated a vote on Europe. We don't know what the
:16:24. > :16:29.Germans are proposing. If you listen to them talking, it is a
:16:29. > :16:33.very technical tweak in the treaty, many other countries oppose it. We
:16:33. > :16:42.should stop tilting at windmills about threats and challenges which
:16:42. > :16:46.simply are not there right now. Nick Clegg, quite categorical that
:16:46. > :16:50.for him it is not on the agenda this side of the election, which
:16:50. > :16:56.may be why David Cameron doesn't really want to create a big fight
:16:56. > :17:01.about this because he knows it may split the coalition apart. We are
:17:01. > :17:08.joined by the Conservative MP george, who tried to table a
:17:08. > :17:14.conciliatory amendment to last night's vote. In the end the
:17:14. > :17:20.government said they were not doing that. Therefore he abstained.
:17:20. > :17:26.Welcome. Are you comfortable with your government pours policy now,
:17:26. > :17:30.urging a deeper fiscal integration for the euro-zone? I think it is
:17:30. > :17:34.more of a decision for those countries in the euro-zone. They
:17:34. > :17:38.understand that but are you comfortable with the government?
:17:38. > :17:44.They are right - if the Euro is to succeed, they need to integrate
:17:44. > :17:50.more deeply. We knew that, it was one of the main arguments against
:17:50. > :17:54.Britain joining the euro. Unless there is a political acceptance of
:17:54. > :17:58.that within countries like Germany and France, it will cause future
:17:58. > :18:03.problems. It was one thing for the German public to integrate with
:18:04. > :18:08.East Germany and take on board the liability, but will they want to
:18:08. > :18:13.have mutual liability with countries like Italy and Greece.
:18:13. > :18:18.That is not what I want to get into this morning. Are you comfortable
:18:18. > :18:24.advocating an approach for the 17 of the euro-zone that we would not
:18:24. > :18:28.be part of ourselves? We are really saying, you go for it but we will
:18:28. > :18:34.not be part of it. I think we should not be telling them what to
:18:34. > :18:44.do. You agree with Nicolas Sarkozy? I wouldn't put it the way he does,
:18:44. > :18:44.
:18:44. > :18:54.but it is a big political decision for them to have a fiscal union.
:18:54. > :18:55.
:18:55. > :18:59.is a joke, he is sitting there.... I am saying you are either in or
:18:59. > :19:05.out. He will have no influence whatsoever, it is a gesture.
:19:05. > :19:12.don't need it because we have control of our own economy. How can
:19:12. > :19:20.we have control of our own economy? It turned out it was a good boat to
:19:20. > :19:26.miss during the euro, we did the right thing. There is only one
:19:26. > :19:32.interviewer when I am doing these things. George Eustice, are you
:19:32. > :19:37.clear in your mind that if the euro-zone comes to an agreement
:19:37. > :19:47.over sovereign debt involving the 17, does that agreement have to be
:19:47. > :19:48.
:19:48. > :19:52.approved by the 27? I think it does. I think we do, and we have to stop
:19:52. > :19:56.trying to find a way to not talk about this and confront the issue.
:19:56. > :20:01.The reason we are in this mess is because deeper integration has been
:20:01. > :20:04.a failure and we need to have this debate. Rather than saying there
:20:05. > :20:09.won't be a treaty because no other countries want one, Britain should
:20:09. > :20:14.be saying we want the treaty and we want to confront this issue. It is
:20:14. > :20:19.tied up in getting the economy going again. We have the burden of
:20:19. > :20:24.new EU laws every week. A let's assume for this discussion that is
:20:24. > :20:29.true, all the more bizarre that it is almost impossible to work out
:20:29. > :20:36.what your party's policy is now. was trying to find out from George
:20:36. > :20:41.Young, what is your understanding of the policy? If the Europeans go
:20:41. > :20:48.down this road, isn't that an opening to start repatriating past
:20:48. > :20:53.London? It is clear in the agreement that we would examine the
:20:53. > :20:58.competences of the European Union, that is why my amendment called for
:20:58. > :21:03.a White Paper to fulfil that commitment. But the coalition
:21:03. > :21:08.agreement refers to powers going to the EU as a whole. That is not what
:21:08. > :21:15.is on the cards at the moment. What is on the cards is at the euro-zone
:21:15. > :21:20.getting more powers for itself. I asked again, if that happens, is
:21:20. > :21:24.that the Government's opportunity to repatriate power or not? What
:21:25. > :21:32.the coalition agreement says is that it would examine the existing
:21:32. > :21:37.competences of the EU. So what is the answer to my question? That
:21:37. > :21:42.that is our policy. The government should be producing a white paper.
:21:42. > :21:46.If George Young could not tell me that, he said it depended on the
:21:46. > :21:51.nature of the euro-zone renegotiation. My position is that
:21:51. > :21:55.if they reintegrate more deeply, this is an opportunity to have a
:21:55. > :22:03.fresh start. I am not here to speak on behalf of the government, this
:22:03. > :22:09.is my personal view. At times of crisis, the future belongs to those
:22:09. > :22:13.with a plan. It is a problem that cost �4.2 billion a year and
:22:13. > :22:16.affects a quarter of the population - obesity is an urgent issue, but
:22:16. > :22:21.have governments been taking the right step to tackle it?
:22:21. > :22:25.Not according to Derek Hatton, who has a personal interest in
:22:25. > :22:35.addressing the issue. We have been speaking to one woman who faces up
:22:35. > :22:38.
:22:38. > :22:45.to what she describes as an addiction. I am in a lot of pain
:22:45. > :22:50.are a lot of the time. It depends if I am having a good or a bad day,
:22:50. > :22:56.but my back aches, my shins ached. Walking to the bus-stop is a chore,
:22:56. > :23:04.and on top of that there is the emotional pain. People avoid
:23:04. > :23:10.catching your eye and avoid sitting next to you on the bus. When I feel
:23:10. > :23:15.bad about myself I get over emotional, and then I eat too much.
:23:15. > :23:20.Emma Burnell has been struggling with food and her weight since she
:23:20. > :23:24.was a teenager. Being fat makes her on happy and she is trying to lead
:23:24. > :23:28.a healthier life. She is getting counselling, but public health
:23:28. > :23:35.officials concerned about obesity don't even appear to understand the
:23:35. > :23:42.problem. Most people will go out and have too much to read, or eat a
:23:42. > :23:47.burger when they know they should be eating a sell land. -- a salad.
:23:47. > :23:52.It is when it becomes over reliance, that is when you have a problem.
:23:52. > :23:57.How common is that? In my opinion, I don't want to talk to everybody
:23:57. > :24:00.who feels and looks like me, but inappropriate relationships with
:24:00. > :24:05.food is extremely common but an extremely hidden aspect of our
:24:05. > :24:09.society. At the government recently launched a new strategy to deal
:24:09. > :24:16.with obesity, they want us as a country to eat 5 billion fewer
:24:16. > :24:22.calories each day. In what has been dubbed as a call to action, they
:24:23. > :24:28.want us to eat less and be more active. Most of it is really
:24:28. > :24:35.patronising. Education is important, of course, but I am a very bright
:24:35. > :24:39.woman. I have a university degree, I work in a high Lovell job, and I
:24:39. > :24:43.know that basically the way to lose weight is through diet and exercise
:24:43. > :24:48.but it is more complicated. When I hear people saying pull yourself
:24:48. > :24:53.together, it is just diet and exercise, it is as stupid as
:24:53. > :24:59.pointing to an alcoholic and telling them to quit drinking.
:25:00. > :25:06.I am joined by the shadow health minister Diane Abbott and Derek
:25:06. > :25:14.Hatton. She is saying it is an addiction, and illness. Obesity is
:25:14. > :25:22.not the disease, it is a disgrace. People have choices, and if people
:25:22. > :25:28.are obese, in the vast majority, it is either because they eat too much
:25:28. > :25:32.or they don't exercise enough. That is true, but the worry I have when
:25:32. > :25:38.you hear people like that is it is almost ignoring that as a fact.
:25:38. > :25:43.What you do to get to that stage is a discussion we can have. At the
:25:43. > :25:49.end of the day, the reality is you are eating too much and not
:25:49. > :25:55.exercising enough. You listen to that goal, it is almost as if it is
:25:55. > :26:00.a big addiction, there is no way I can get out of it. You can, stop
:26:00. > :26:03.eating and start exercising. people need help in that sense. In
:26:03. > :26:10.2010, a report said significant progress in cutting hospital
:26:10. > :26:15.waiting times have been undermined by failing to tackle obesity. Not
:26:15. > :26:21.enough was done - do you accept that? Yes, we could have done more.
:26:22. > :26:26.It leads to diabetes, cancer, strokes, high blood pressure, and
:26:26. > :26:31.it cost the health service millions. What sort of public health campaign
:26:31. > :26:36.should be done? Do they achieve anything? Some of the money that
:26:36. > :26:41.was spent was wasted on leaflets and the rest of it, but I have seen
:26:41. > :26:45.interesting programmes in schools where you work with individual
:26:45. > :26:50.children and families around being more active and looking at what
:26:50. > :26:56.they all lead. When you have a fat child, the family has bad eating
:26:56. > :26:59.habits generally. Things like banning trans fats, which are no
:27:00. > :27:05.good to anybody, and when the government says it is about
:27:05. > :27:08.personal choice and control, that is wrong. What about the dependency
:27:08. > :27:14.culture this government seems to want to tackle, do you think that
:27:14. > :27:19.has led to high rates of obesity? I'd do. I think that over the years
:27:19. > :27:24.people have sat back and thought people will do this for us.
:27:24. > :27:29.they want gastric bounds. People have got to do it themselves. In
:27:29. > :27:34.some ways it is against the political line I would have taken
:27:34. > :27:39.before, but people have to realise they have power over them own lives.
:27:39. > :27:46.I am involved in a campaign to get people to use their bicycle to go
:27:46. > :27:50.to work. You talk to the employers of those people with bikes, and
:27:50. > :27:56.they say they get a more diligent workforce, a much more keen work
:27:56. > :28:00.force and a happier workforce. People have got to realise that
:28:00. > :28:05.when they start getting healthier, they are in many ways ready to take
:28:05. > :28:10.on the world. Do you agree with the government to use more stick and
:28:10. > :28:15.less carrot? Jamie Oliver and others, all of those specialist in
:28:15. > :28:19.the field say the Government's so- called obesity strategy is rubbish.
:28:19. > :28:25.It is relying too much on multinationals and fast food
:28:25. > :28:31.manufacturers to do the right thing, and not enough providing practical
:28:31. > :28:36.help like schemes like Derek's. We need a proper strategy, people need
:28:36. > :28:44.real help. Carrots for lunch, biking home?