02/11/2011

:00:23. > :00:26.Morning folks. This is the Daily Politics. The Government has made

:00:26. > :00:33.an improved, possibly last, offer to union leaders on its proposed

:00:33. > :00:39.changes to public sector pensions. to be announced, but they are

:00:39. > :00:41.largely technical. We'll bring them to you as soon as we can. Union

:00:41. > :00:45.leaders are discussing the proposals right now. They're angry

:00:45. > :00:48.about plans to raise workers' contributions and the pension age.

:00:48. > :00:58.We'll be asking, will the latest offer be enough to avert another

:00:58. > :01:05.strike planned for later this month?

:01:05. > :01:11.Carry on camping - we take the mood box to St Paul's. The reason for

:01:11. > :01:15.this demonstration is why I came to London for my holiday. You came

:01:15. > :01:18.here on holiday because of this? Yes. The Greek Government is

:01:18. > :01:21.teetering on the brink of collapse, but we'll be talking to one former

:01:21. > :01:25.union chief who believes Britain should still think about signing up

:01:25. > :01:34.to the euro. And Cheggers will be here putting

:01:34. > :01:37.the Government's new happiness test to the test.

:01:37. > :01:46.All that and more, including Prime Minister's Questions, coming up in

:01:46. > :01:48.the next 90 minutes. And with us for the duration we have the Mr

:01:48. > :01:51.Happy and the Mr Grumpy of political thought, International

:01:51. > :02:01.Development Minister, Alan Duncan, and Shadow Leader of the Commons,

:02:01. > :02:02.

:02:02. > :02:09.Hilary Benn. I really have no idea which is which. I just read the

:02:09. > :02:13.autocue and get paid a modest amount for doing it. Welcome.

:02:14. > :02:16.you. Now, let's turn our attention again to events at St Paul's, where

:02:16. > :02:19.it appears protesters will not be moving in the forseeable future.

:02:19. > :02:27.Today the Archbishop of Canterbury waded in on the debate, backing

:02:27. > :02:32.calls for a new tax on financial transactions. I doesn't know he was

:02:32. > :02:38.an expert in international finance. I should consult him more on

:02:38. > :02:41.religious matters. He said it would advance the protesters' moral

:02:42. > :02:51.agenda. So should they stay or should they go? We sent Adam down

:02:52. > :02:52.

:02:52. > :02:55.with the mood box. We've brought the balls to St Paul's. Do people

:02:55. > :02:59.here think it's time for the protesters to go home or should

:02:59. > :03:04.they carry on protesting? I think we'll hear from a few protesters as

:03:04. > :03:10.well. Are awe visitor or a protester? A protesting visitor.

:03:10. > :03:15.Why are you going to carry on? Because this corrupt system of

:03:15. > :03:21.banking has cast a blight on the whole world. I'm a visiting

:03:21. > :03:26.protester. Does a bunch of tents make much of a difference? It does

:03:26. > :03:31.when they are on a global scale, with 2,300 tented cities like this

:03:31. > :03:37.one around the world. Does this should not have a big impact on

:03:37. > :03:43.your job or your study? No, I've gone to all my lectures and

:03:43. > :03:49.seminars as usual. Grab a ball... would rather grab a man. Especially

:03:49. > :03:53.you, I fancy you, dear. Why is that? I've come back to my country

:03:53. > :03:58.after 40 years and I'm horrified that England has sunk into the

:03:58. > :04:05.sewer. In if this is a peaceful demonstration, you should go in

:04:05. > :04:10.peace. How long are you going to carry on for? I have to be back in

:04:10. > :04:20.Cornwall in January. I used to be a trader, so I know the greed and

:04:20. > :04:24.

:04:24. > :04:30.avarice and envy that runs the City. The reason for this demonstration

:04:30. > :04:34.is why I came to London for my holiday. You actually came here on

:04:34. > :04:40.holiday because of this? Yes, I wanted to see it. I can't go to New

:04:40. > :04:47.York to see the protesters on Wall Street, because I come from Belgium,

:04:47. > :04:54.because it is too expensive. This is an extra holiday treat. Thank

:04:54. > :04:59.you! Is this racist? How can it be racist? Are awe racist? Not to my

:04:59. > :05:05.knowledge. Do you work for a racist organisation? No. Who did you work

:05:05. > :05:10.for? The BBC. The BBC! Hardly anyone is saying it is time to go

:05:10. > :05:14.home. That may be a product of the fact that a lot of people who feel

:05:14. > :05:19.this don't feel comfortable showing this in this environment. Put a

:05:19. > :05:24.ball in. I can't. It is not my job. So I went round to the other side

:05:24. > :05:31.of the Cathedral, where views were definitely more mixed. Ultimately

:05:31. > :05:40.this is a place of worship. I think they have made their point, around

:05:40. > :05:43.the world. The genuine protesters are great, but according to the

:05:43. > :05:47.paper and various things, and also I go past it every day at the

:05:47. > :05:54.moment, there seem to be more and more unsavoury elements there and

:05:54. > :05:59.they are spoiling the protest. Thank you very much. I never

:05:59. > :06:03.understood why Guy Fawkes was Guy Fawkes. It had nothing to do with

:06:03. > :06:08.capitalism. How do you think this is going to end? Hopefully they'll

:06:08. > :06:12.get burnt and moved on! Well, after equal time spent in two locations

:06:12. > :06:16.let's see the final result. It looks like a majority are still

:06:16. > :06:24.supporting the protest carrying on. You could say that's for whom the

:06:24. > :06:27.ball tolls. He's paid by the cliche. Adam there

:06:27. > :06:32.proving his balls around St Paul's. Well, we're joined now by Ian

:06:32. > :06:36.Chamberlain who's hot-footed it from the protest at St Paul's.

:06:36. > :06:40.Welcome. I know the group there doesn't necessarily have a united

:06:40. > :06:45.front on what you want to achieve, but can we get a flavour of what

:06:45. > :06:51.you stand for? For example, do you want to nationalise the banks?

:06:51. > :06:54.think we are united by growing concern at the increasing economic

:06:54. > :06:59.inequality. That bit I get. I understand that. I'm trying to work

:06:59. > :07:02.out what you would like to do about it. I've heard a lot of people are

:07:03. > :07:07.worried about inequality, I understand that, and it's been made

:07:07. > :07:11.worse in recent years. I'm trying to work out how you would address

:07:11. > :07:14.it as opposed to other groups. Would you nationalise the banks?

:07:14. > :07:19.Would you take them into state control? I think it is important to

:07:19. > :07:24.explain what's happening at St Paul's. This isn't about a group of

:07:24. > :07:28.people with predetermined ideas about how to improve the economic

:07:28. > :07:32.crisis. It's a space where people with articulate alternatives to the

:07:32. > :07:35.austerity of the Government. It is a democratic process. We are

:07:35. > :07:39.releasing statements. We started off with an initial statement which

:07:39. > :07:45.set out our basic values and with ongoing debate and discussion we

:07:45. > :07:49.want to get to a stage where we can start forming policy. So, you talk

:07:49. > :07:54.about inequality, would you for example have a much higher tax on

:07:54. > :07:58.those who earn big salaries than the current top rate of 50 %?

:07:58. > :08:02.things that I can talk about, because they have been discussed at

:08:02. > :08:05.the camp, because I'm not here to represent myself but to capture the

:08:06. > :08:10.spirit of what's going on at the camp. People are talking about

:08:10. > :08:13.things like the Tobin tax and better regulation of the banks.

:08:13. > :08:16.Everybody is talking about better regulation of the banks. They are,

:08:16. > :08:20.but we've always realised that there are a lot of good ideas out

:08:20. > :08:24.there already but there isn't the political imp tulings us to

:08:24. > :08:27.implement them. We believe that -- impetus to implement them. In the

:08:27. > :08:34.end, I've lived through many movements. I remember the movement

:08:34. > :08:37.of the '60s. In the end that's all they were - movements. I'm just

:08:37. > :08:42.trying to work out what you, not as a firm manifesto, I understand

:08:42. > :08:48.that's not the purpose, but just as a general mood, the kind of changes

:08:48. > :08:53.that you would like to see. So, what would you do, if inequality is

:08:53. > :08:57.your major concern, what would your single biggest step be to narrow

:08:57. > :09:01.that inequality? Well, again I say, if you look at the civil rights

:09:01. > :09:07.movement in America, it was about people meeting in public spaces, in

:09:07. > :09:14.churches and things, and discussing, they had obviously aims in common.

:09:14. > :09:18.And out of that process... civil rights movement had a clear

:09:18. > :09:23.agenda, and that agenda was equality between black and white,

:09:23. > :09:28.it was to end seg gaigs in the South, it was to pass major civil

:09:28. > :09:32.rights Acts through Congress and to make sure that voter Reg station

:09:32. > :09:37.was fair. They were all specific policies. That's what I'm trying to

:09:37. > :09:41.do fu. Don't want to go down this road I will stop now. The civil

:09:41. > :09:45.rights movement didn't last two weeks. We've only been there a

:09:45. > :09:49.short time. We see this as the beginning of a movement. We see

:09:49. > :09:54.this going on not necessarily in term of the occupation but as a

:09:54. > :09:58.movement going on many years, developing and articulating

:09:58. > :10:06.policies. After two weeks I don't think we can be expected to have a

:10:06. > :10:09.full manifesto of things for you. lot of people have been there for

:10:09. > :10:13.agitation and agitprop before. Does it concern you that in a protest,

:10:13. > :10:19.which as I understand it is basically to challenge capitalism

:10:19. > :10:23.and to change capitalism in unspecified ways that the main

:10:23. > :10:26.victim so far has been the Church of England? Well, I personally

:10:26. > :10:31.believe that what's happened is that we've identified people within

:10:31. > :10:34.the Church who really support our aims and values. That's been a

:10:34. > :10:39.really empowering thing for us, because it demonstrates this

:10:39. > :10:42.rainbow coalition within our movement. It is not just anti-

:10:42. > :10:45.capitalist or people on the hard left. It is people within the

:10:45. > :10:50.Church. We had on Sunday all different faith and community

:10:50. > :10:55.leaders come down to speak to us and articulate very similar views.

:10:55. > :11:00.As a party of the centre left, should your strategy be to coopt

:11:00. > :11:04.these people to bring them into a left-wing party? Or to distance

:11:05. > :11:08.yourself from them? I don't think it's either of those, Andrew. The

:11:08. > :11:11.first thing I would say is that movements can change minds. You

:11:11. > :11:14.referred back to movements that you've seen throughout your

:11:14. > :11:18.political life. They can have an impact. People have an absolute

:11:18. > :11:22.right to protest. Whether it is the same as the right to camp in the

:11:22. > :11:26.front of St Paul's is a different point. I think the Cathedral has

:11:26. > :11:30.been put in some difficulty in trying to respond to people who

:11:30. > :11:35.turned up who they hadn't anticipated. It is a difficulty of

:11:35. > :11:41.its own making at times as well. fairness yes, because closing the

:11:41. > :11:45.Opening it again Hard to see what the health and safety issue was. I

:11:45. > :11:49.agree with you. What is being articulated and what you said today

:11:49. > :11:53.is a concern about the way things have been run, and a feeling, as

:11:53. > :11:58.yet not fully expressed, that things need to change. So why don't

:11:58. > :12:02.you coopt them, if this is an unformed feeling to which you are

:12:02. > :12:06.sympathetic, here is your chance to bring it on board and give this

:12:06. > :12:11.feeling, since you are the professional party, some policy

:12:11. > :12:16.shape? Well, let me give you two examples of how we are doing

:12:16. > :12:20.precisely that. One is, on international financial transaction

:12:20. > :12:25.fax, we were proposing that in 2009. We wanted it to cover as many

:12:25. > :12:31.countries as possible. It should be on the agenda of the G20 this week.

:12:31. > :12:36.The second is the bankers' bonus tax, to give young people a job and

:12:36. > :12:42.build 25,000 homes. But the Government doesn't agree with it.

:12:42. > :12:48.The European Union, you don't need to be camped out St Paul's to be in

:12:48. > :12:51.favour of the Tobin tax. Should they be moved? I'm not in favour of

:12:51. > :12:56.tented cities moving around the country, be it from Dale form to

:12:56. > :13:05.Parliament Square to the edge of St Paul's. When they are blocking a

:13:05. > :13:05.pavement, yes, there's a problem. Ian and I were having an

:13:05. > :13:09.programme Many respects she not probably what people were expecting

:13:09. > :13:14.as a representative of the St Paul's protesters. There are some

:13:14. > :13:17.massive problems with people who've moved money around and then the

:13:17. > :13:23.House of Cards collapses. Some of the best brains in the world are

:13:23. > :13:27.working thon and they can't work out how to solve the problem, along

:13:27. > :13:31.with the euro crisis. We have to leave it there. Ian Chamberlain,

:13:31. > :13:35.thank you for being with us. Now, should a woman have the right

:13:35. > :13:37.to know if a new partner has a history of domestic abuse? Should

:13:37. > :13:40.someone under 18 receive a mandatory prison sentence if they

:13:40. > :13:43.use or threaten with a knife? Both proposals are up for debate this

:13:43. > :13:46.afternoon. And we have two of the people behind the amendments in

:13:46. > :13:52.Central Lobby, Labour MP Hazel Blears, and the Conservative MP,

:13:52. > :13:54.Nick de Bois. Hazel, you want people to be able to find out

:13:54. > :14:04.information in about their partners, did you know or think that people

:14:04. > :14:05.

:14:06. > :14:10.want to do that? Is there a demand There was some polling done, and I

:14:10. > :14:15.think it was 91% of people thought they ought to know the history of

:14:15. > :14:18.their partner. This followed a case where some body was stalked,

:14:18. > :14:23.harassed and murdered by their partner. It turned out later that

:14:23. > :14:27.he had a whole history of such offences. And that poor young woman

:14:27. > :14:31.had no idea about his history. If she had known, she could have

:14:31. > :14:39.decided that she would have nothing to do with him. Does that mean

:14:39. > :14:42.you're in favour of the right to know, or it is up to them to ask?

:14:42. > :14:45.I'm going to be saying that somebody should be able to ask the

:14:45. > :14:53.Chief Constable, that there should be a presumption in favour of

:14:53. > :14:57.disclosure. At the moment, that information will be shared amongst

:14:57. > :15:01.all the agencies, and yet the person involved in the relationship

:15:01. > :15:05.does not have that information. That seems to me to be a ridiculous

:15:05. > :15:10.state of affairs, and there are two women every week murdered at the

:15:10. > :15:20.hands of their partners. If we could just save a few lives through

:15:20. > :15:20.

:15:20. > :15:26.this, it would be worthwhile. advice would you give to Hazel

:15:27. > :15:31.Blears on this one? I would say persistence and stubbornness, if

:15:31. > :15:34.you think your cause is right and can build a coalition around it,

:15:34. > :15:40.which I think Hazel Blears is doing, that is probably the best advice.

:15:40. > :15:44.In terms of your cause, up to 1,400 extra teenagers could get custodial

:15:44. > :15:49.sentences because of your amendment, that's a lot of young people with a

:15:49. > :15:53.criminal record. We should be looking at it from the other end of

:15:53. > :15:57.the telescope. It is absolutely vital that what I call the early

:15:57. > :16:01.stages of getting into the cycle of knife crime violence, which can

:16:01. > :16:05.lead to serious or fatal stabbings, that we need an effective deterrent,

:16:05. > :16:07.as well as a range of other measures to help discourage people

:16:07. > :16:11.from brandishing a knife in a threatening this is. We are not

:16:11. > :16:16.talking about carrying a knife, we're talking about pointing

:16:16. > :16:19.something and using it in that fashion. So, I'm optimistic, I

:16:19. > :16:28.think part of the strong message which will come out from creating

:16:28. > :16:34.this law, that will act as a way of keeping people out of prison.

:16:34. > :16:39.you both of you. Alan Duncan, this amendment being put forward by Nick

:16:39. > :16:44.de Bois, it is not going to be cheap, is it? If you're thinking

:16:44. > :16:49.about cutting is prison places, then this will not help. When I was

:16:49. > :16:52.Shadow Prisons Minister, we went through a lot of calculations about

:16:52. > :16:56.reforming people, rehabilitating them, as opposed to putting them in

:16:56. > :17:00.prison. But crimes of violence are the ones on which we ought to be

:17:00. > :17:05.the toughest. When a teenager has no respect for authority of any

:17:05. > :17:12.sort, and is wielding a knife in a threatening way, that is the sort

:17:12. > :17:16.of crime on which we ought to be tough. So you would support the

:17:16. > :17:22.extra cost. It is wrong just to look at cost on these things.

:17:22. > :17:25.Government has been saying that cost is a big issue. Of course,

:17:25. > :17:30.particularly in the warm third or so of prisoners who are very poorly

:17:30. > :17:33.educated, they have got no job, no savings, no family life, the merry-

:17:33. > :17:39.go-round of those, and those are the ones who need to be

:17:39. > :17:43.rehabilitated, is where the greatest cost hits the country.

:17:43. > :17:47.think we should do all we can to discourage people from carrying

:17:47. > :17:51.knives and retain people. But you have to be quite careful with

:17:51. > :17:56.mandatory sentences, because the courts in the end need to be able

:17:56. > :17:59.to take account of circumstances. On Hazel Blears' amendment, it

:18:00. > :18:03.would seem to me she has a strong case, because if other people get

:18:03. > :18:09.the information but a prospective partner does not, then you have got

:18:09. > :18:14.some difficulties. The Government has been coming up with some new

:18:14. > :18:19.proposals to try and appease the unions who are planning to strike

:18:19. > :18:23.on 30th November. In the last hour both sides came out of a special

:18:23. > :18:28.meeting in the Cabinet Office to try to safeguard a deal. Jo has the

:18:28. > :18:38.latest on this story. Yes, in 2010 the Government said it was

:18:38. > :18:39.

:18:39. > :18:45.the Government said it was committed to saving � 2.3 billion.

:18:46. > :18:49.This means pension schemes will need to find huge savings. Unions

:18:49. > :18:54.are currently balloting members about a nationwide day of action on

:18:54. > :18:57.30th November. The results are due out over the next couple of weeks.

:18:57. > :19:01.Earlier I spoke to the general secretary of the Association of

:19:01. > :19:03.Teachers and Lecturers union, and asked her if she would accept the

:19:03. > :19:07.asked her if she would accept the Government's proposal for more

:19:07. > :19:12.generous rates. It is a very interesting position

:19:12. > :19:17.that the Government is taking. It is their first serious change from

:19:17. > :19:20.their previous position, which was, that's your offer, take it or leave

:19:20. > :19:24.it. So it is worthy of consideration. What it will mean in

:19:24. > :19:28.each scheme will be different things, so it needs to be looked at

:19:29. > :19:31.closely. You're going to be meeting with your union colleagues - this

:19:31. > :19:36.is being painted as the Government's final offer, so in a

:19:36. > :19:39.sense, it is make up your mind time, isn't it? We will have to see. The

:19:39. > :19:43.Government told us nine months ago that they had given us their final

:19:43. > :19:49.offer, and now they have listened to the weight of argument and made

:19:49. > :19:54.a change. The accrual rate is one issue. But there are also lots of

:19:54. > :19:58.other issues which this does not address - the retirement age, the

:19:58. > :20:01.increase in pension contributions, for example. So we have to look at

:20:01. > :20:08.this in the round, and for each scheme, to see what it actually

:20:08. > :20:10.means. You must accept now that in the current economic climate,

:20:11. > :20:16.particularly when you look at the deal that private sector workers

:20:16. > :20:20.get, paying more into their pensions and getting less out...

:20:20. > :20:27.There is a real problem with private sector pensions. They lack

:20:27. > :20:33.transparency and the fees are very high. But let's are just scotch the

:20:33. > :20:39.myth that private sector pensions get no help from the taxpayer. In

:20:39. > :20:45.the last year for which figures are available, private sector pensions

:20:45. > :20:49.got �37.5 billion in indirect tax relief, which was �12.5 billion

:20:49. > :20:52.more than was paid out in public sector pensions. So, private sector

:20:52. > :20:56.pensions are very expensive, they lack transparency and they need to

:20:57. > :21:00.be reformed. We have looked after public sector pensions better.

:21:00. > :21:05.you do admit that private sector workers will pay in more and get

:21:05. > :21:08.out less. Absolutely, but that is an issue with the way their

:21:08. > :21:14.pensions are run. It does not have to happen. In other countries, they

:21:14. > :21:20.do much better, Denmark for example. What about the negotiating position

:21:20. > :21:24.- do you see yourself on strike at the end of the month? I hope not.

:21:24. > :21:28.We went on strike for the first time in more than 100 years in June,

:21:28. > :21:32.and we do not want to have to do it again. We will look at the offer

:21:32. > :21:37.seriously. What about Labour's position, are you expecting more

:21:37. > :21:42.support from Ed Miliband? I have given up a bit on that, really. I'm

:21:42. > :21:48.not relying on the Labour Party to come to our aid or even to talk

:21:48. > :21:53.much sense about pensions at the moment. Hillary Benn, she has given

:21:53. > :21:56.up on the Labour Party. I think that was a trifle unfair, given

:21:56. > :21:59.that we have been saying from the beginning of this that the

:21:59. > :22:02.Government had to negotiate seriously. Why has it taken to this

:22:02. > :22:12.late stage for the Government to come forward and make an offer? We

:22:12. > :22:15.

:22:15. > :22:19.have not seen the details yet, obviously. I think we have given

:22:19. > :22:23.every support in arguing for a negotiated settlement and a serious

:22:23. > :22:28.offer on the part of the Government, which they have failed to do up

:22:28. > :22:31.until now, because they have just imposed changes. And now, at this

:22:31. > :22:37.late stage they have come forward with something. Why have you taken

:22:37. > :22:41.so long to come up with an improved offer? It is a process of

:22:41. > :22:44.negotiation. Getting this right has been an essential component in our

:22:44. > :22:47.international reputation. If we were not tackling this problem in

:22:47. > :22:51.the way that we are, we would have enormous pain for people up and

:22:51. > :22:57.down the country, with higher interest rates. I hope this will be

:22:57. > :23:00.a sensible, grown-up negotiation between both sides. I thought the

:23:00. > :23:03.demeanour of Brendan Barber coming out of the Cabinet Office was very

:23:03. > :23:07.encouraging. I know there will be a statement later this afternoon

:23:07. > :23:12.which I hope can avoid confrontation. We do not want to be

:23:12. > :23:17.like Greece, Italy and France, full of strikes all the time. We want

:23:17. > :23:21.people to know where they are. On the pensions side, no-one within 10

:23:21. > :23:27.years of retirement will be affected. All the very poorest will

:23:27. > :23:34.be protected. And those are two very important principles. So you

:23:34. > :23:38.do not see it as the final offer? There's a process of announcing if

:23:38. > :23:44.the trade unions are happy with it or not. I'm not doing the

:23:44. > :23:50.negotiations. What I think we have seen this morning are what looked

:23:50. > :23:55.like some very fruitful encounters, which is encouraging. We are facing

:23:55. > :23:57.enormous economic dangers in Europe. Fortunately, we are in a better

:23:57. > :24:02.position than most European mainland countries, and we want to

:24:02. > :24:06.keep it that way. We had growth figures yesterday which were better

:24:06. > :24:10.than expected, but let's keeps steadily going forward and not risk

:24:10. > :24:17.collapsing in the way that our neighbour countries are. But there

:24:17. > :24:22.comes a stage when Labour, having seen the Government's offer, has to

:24:22. > :24:26.tell us, that's the best we are going to get, we should accept it,

:24:26. > :24:32.or you back the unions going on strike. We have not got to that

:24:32. > :24:35.point yet. It depends on how the negotiations go. Either there will

:24:35. > :24:40.be agreement or not, and you will have to take a judgment on which

:24:40. > :24:44.side to support. And we will do that on the basis of what we know

:24:44. > :24:48.at the time. But negotiations have not been completed. We have always

:24:48. > :24:52.urged that there should be serious negotiations, and the Government

:24:52. > :24:56.has got round to it very, very late in the day, having tried to dictate

:24:56. > :25:00.to the unions what should happen to the pension schemes. The feeling I

:25:00. > :25:07.was given was that the changes are quite technical and marginal, the

:25:07. > :25:12.main principles of the reforms are still in place, so, are you ready

:25:12. > :25:16.for a confrontation with the unions? We do not want a

:25:16. > :25:25.confrontation, that is not a question I want to answer. That's

:25:25. > :25:32.why I asked it. I would rather see no confrontation. It is hardly an

:25:32. > :25:37.unreasonable question, even by my standards. Final-salary pensions

:25:37. > :25:40.have all but disappeared in the private sector. We are seeing very

:25:40. > :25:45.difficult numbers in the public sector, where costs have gone up by

:25:45. > :25:50.50% over the last few years. You have got people possibly on �34,000

:25:50. > :25:56.a year getting pensions of �20,000 - you do not get that in the

:25:56. > :26:01.private sector. We want to see a sustainable system for the decades

:26:01. > :26:11.ahead. We want a system which will last, rather than Labour, who made

:26:11. > :26:11.

:26:11. > :26:20.tons of promises and left us in a state of financial collapse.

:26:20. > :26:24.for something completely different. The lights in the studios come up.

:26:24. > :26:32.The producer is waiting at his microphone to speak his last word

:26:32. > :26:42.to the artist. The controllers are ready on vision and sound. The

:26:42. > :26:50.vision and sound are on, the station goes on the air. Yes, dog,

:26:50. > :27:00.television is 75 years old today. Don't adjust your sets. I like it

:27:00. > :27:03.black-and-white. Back then, the BBC had an audience of 20,000. We can

:27:03. > :27:07.only dream of figures like that on The Daily Politics. There have been

:27:07. > :27:10.some great TV moments over the last 75 years, but The Daily Politics

:27:10. > :27:20.has given the world perhaps the greatest prize in television

:27:20. > :27:22.

:27:22. > :27:28.history, yes, The Daily Politics Mug. To get your hands in on one,

:27:28. > :27:38.you will have to or enter our Guess the Year competition. Let's see if

:27:38. > :27:48.

:27:48. > :27:58.# No-one to talk with, all by myself. These are the first of the

:27:58. > :28:02.

:28:02. > :28:12.Hungry silkworms are eating heartily, producing silk which will

:28:12. > :28:19.

:28:19. > :28:29.# Poetry in motion... We do not want the book to fall into the

:28:29. > :28:32.

:28:32. > :28:39.hands of unsuspecting people, who # Gone with the cold wind that

:28:39. > :28:49.swept into my heart... # Gong with the lovers who let

:28:49. > :29:05.

:29:05. > :29:13.Everybody is guessing here in the studio. Send your answer to our

:29:13. > :29:23.special quiz e-mail address. You can see the full terms and

:29:23. > :29:24.

:29:24. > :29:28.conditions for the competition on It is coming up to midday. Let's

:29:28. > :29:33.take a look cap Big Ben, that can only mean one thing, Prime

:29:33. > :29:39.Minister's Questions is on its way. And by absolutely no public demand

:29:39. > :29:45.a tall, Nick Robinson, the BBC political editor. A we have been

:29:45. > :29:49.talking about the G20. What a fine mess they have got us into. We are

:29:49. > :29:54.about to have a Question Time in which the Prime Minister will look,

:29:54. > :29:58.I fear, like a spectator at world events, rather than central to them.

:29:58. > :30:03.There is an argument that that is in fact better, because you could

:30:03. > :30:07.be Greece or Italy. But I think there is a sense that huge events

:30:07. > :30:15.are going on, the French are effectively trying to put pressure

:30:15. > :30:20.on the Greeks, with regard to this referendum. And also being told, we

:30:21. > :30:27.will take IMF money off the table if you dared to vote no. That is

:30:27. > :30:32.all happening as we speak, as the leaders had to Cabinet. On the

:30:32. > :30:36.economy, it feels to me like it is almost a holding session. Is it

:30:36. > :30:42.getting so serious in Europe that Britain may be asked to contribute

:30:42. > :30:50.directly? Again and again, they say, in the Treasury and in Number Ten,

:30:51. > :30:59.we are not doing that, we will not contribute in that way. We are a

:31:00. > :31:04.shareholder in the IMF, about 4.5% of that fund its so we contribute

:31:04. > :31:09.in that way, but when it comes to direct help via the EU, the message

:31:09. > :31:18.from the Treasury and Number Ten is absolutely unequivocal, no, we will

:31:18. > :31:22.not do it. I suggest that the Government has no better idea what

:31:22. > :31:26.is going to happen now than we do. I gather they learned about the

:31:26. > :31:30.Greek decision on the television. And when they called the Greek

:31:31. > :31:35.ambassador, he was not there. Indeed, the Prime Minister clearly

:31:35. > :31:38.thought the deal was done, when it This morning I had meetings with

:31:38. > :31:42.ministerial colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in the

:31:42. > :31:47.House I shall have further such meetings later today.

:31:47. > :31:51.With the average of-year-old living ten years longer than in the 1970s

:31:51. > :31:55.reform of the pensions is essential. Will he ensure that it is fair to

:31:55. > :31:57.my constituents in temporarys of the taxpayer and public sector

:31:57. > :32:00.workers? My honourable friend makes an important point and the Chief

:32:00. > :32:03.Secretary to the Treasury will be making a full statement to the

:32:03. > :32:08.House. It is vital that we do something that is fair to taxpayers

:32:08. > :32:12.and also fair to public sector workers. The costs of our public

:32:12. > :32:16.sector pensions system is up by a third in the last decade. It is not

:32:16. > :32:21.fair to go on as we are. But the new arrangements must be fair to

:32:21. > :32:25.people who work hard in the public sector and on whom we are all

:32:25. > :32:29.relying. Can I tell the House that low and middle income earners will

:32:30. > :32:33.get more from their public sector pensions. Everyone will keep what

:32:33. > :32:36.they've built up so far. Anyone within ten years of retirement will

:32:36. > :32:41.see no change in their pension arrangements. At the end of this

:32:41. > :32:45.people in the public sector will still get far, far better pensions

:32:45. > :32:48.than people in the private sector. Ill really it is time that the

:32:48. > :32:56.party opposite was clear they do not support strikes later this

:32:56. > :33:01.month. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband.

:33:01. > :33:06.Mr Speaker, does the Prime Minister believe that growth of 0.5% over

:33:06. > :33:12.the last year and unemployment at a 17-year high point to the success

:33:12. > :33:17.or failure of his economic plan? Obviously everybody wants the

:33:17. > :33:21.British economy to grow faster. That's what everybody wants. But I

:33:21. > :33:24.have to, I have to, I have to say to the honourable gentleman,

:33:24. > :33:31.yesterday's figure of 0.5%, which was better than many people

:33:31. > :33:38.expected, isn't it noticeable that he cannot even bring himself to

:33:38. > :33:44.welcome news like that! The key issue, I think we all have to

:33:44. > :33:48.address, is this. There's a global storm in the world economy today.

:33:48. > :33:52.And it is in our interests to help others confront that global storm,

:33:52. > :33:58.but we have also got to keep the British economy safe. We won't keep

:33:58. > :34:02.it safe if we add to our deficit, add to our debt and put interest

:34:02. > :34:09.rates at risk. Mr Speaker, first he blamed the Labour Government, then

:34:09. > :34:14.he blamed CHEERING

:34:14. > :34:18.First he blamed the Labour Government then he blamed Europe.

:34:18. > :34:21.Yesterday he was apparently blaming his Cabinet colleagues for the lack

:34:21. > :34:27.of growth in our economy. The truth with this Prime Minister is when

:34:27. > :34:32.things go wrong it is never anything to do with him. Now, let's

:34:32. > :34:36.ask about another one of his flagship policies. The business

:34:36. > :34:41.growth fund. Launched nine months ago with the banks. Can he tell us

:34:41. > :34:48.the number of businesses that the business growth fund have made

:34:48. > :34:54.investment in? First of all the problem, the problem, the problem

:34:54. > :34:58.with, the problem with pre-scripted questions is he doesn't listen to

:34:58. > :35:03.the first answer. I didn't actually in my first answer blame the last

:35:03. > :35:08.Labour Government. But if he would like me to I can start right now,

:35:08. > :35:10.because it was the last Labour Government that left us record

:35:10. > :35:14.debts, the record deficit. And it is this Government that is having

:35:14. > :35:20.to deal with that. He asked about the business growth fund. This is

:35:20. > :35:23.one of the schemes to ensure that banks are lending alongside the

:35:23. > :35:26.Merlin scheme, which is actually seeing an increase in lending to

:35:26. > :35:31.small businesses. That is the record we can be proud of and

:35:31. > :35:36.something he didn't achieve. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband.

:35:36. > :35:40.Mr Speaker, we all know by now with this Prime Minister that when he

:35:40. > :35:43.blusters like that at the dispatch box, he is either too embarrassed

:35:43. > :35:47.to answer or he doesn't know the answer.

:35:47. > :35:55.So let me help him. The business growth fund was announced nine

:35:55. > :36:01.months ago. It has five offices, 50 staff, how many investments a grand

:36:01. > :36:05.total of two. And, Mr Speaker, it's becoming a pattern with this Prime

:36:05. > :36:10.Minister, fanfare announcement then radio silence. He said in March,

:36:10. > :36:15.I'm going to watch those banks like a hawk. And make sure they deliver.

:36:15. > :36:20.So what is he going to do to get the business growth fund moving?

:36:20. > :36:28.These are if banks he completely failed to regulate year after year.

:36:28. > :36:33.Yes, yes, and these... (Interruption) THE SPEAKER: Order!

:36:34. > :36:39.The House is getting... Order! Mr Campbell, calm yourself. The House

:36:39. > :36:45.is getting far too excited. It is onlyle 6 minutes past. Order! Both

:36:45. > :36:49.the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition must be heard. It

:36:49. > :36:52.is called democracy and free expression. Prime Minister.

:36:52. > :36:57.Speaker, let me give him the figures forewhat's happened under

:36:57. > :37:02.the bank lending schemes of this Government. We have �190 billion of

:37:02. > :37:07.new credit this year, up from 179 billion last year. That is a huge

:37:07. > :37:11.increase. There is 76 billion of this for small and medium-sized

:37:11. > :37:15.enterprises. That is up 15% on last year. We are seeing more bank

:37:15. > :37:18.lending under this Government, but we are also seeing the bank levy so

:37:18. > :37:25.that people in the banks are helping to pay to deal with the

:37:25. > :37:32.deficit that his Government created. Mr Speaker, a totally hopeless

:37:32. > :37:36.answer, one of his own schemes, one of his own schemes, the business

:37:36. > :37:42.growth fund. They trumpeted the announcement and have not got a

:37:42. > :37:46.clue what is happening to their own scheme. Business is struggling but

:37:46. > :37:52.one group is doing very well indeed. Over the last year, when many

:37:52. > :37:55.people have seen their wages frozen, directors' pay rose by 49%. The

:37:55. > :37:59.Prime Minister expressed concern about this last Friday. But the

:37:59. > :38:03.public want to know what is he going to do about it? Let me tell

:38:03. > :38:07.you exactly what we are doing about it and will do about it. It is this

:38:07. > :38:11.Government that introduced the bank levy. More raised in one year than

:38:11. > :38:14.the bonus tax that they created. It is this Government that has

:38:14. > :38:21.increased the fees that non-Doms have to pay. It is this Government

:38:22. > :38:26.that has had an agreement with Switzerland and with Liechtenstein

:38:26. > :38:30.to get hold of people with money overseas. This Government has seen

:38:30. > :38:34.lower bank bonuses. I think the Archbishop of Canterbury speaks for

:38:34. > :38:37.the whole country when he says statistics unacceptable in a time

:38:37. > :38:42.of difficulty when people at the top of our society are not showing

:38:42. > :38:45.signs of responsibility. It is this Government that is now consulting...

:38:45. > :38:51.It is this Government that is consulting about proper measures to

:38:51. > :38:54.make sure we get transparency in terms of boardroom pay, proper

:38:54. > :38:59.accountability, more power for shareholders, all of those things

:38:59. > :39:04.we are doing. I have to ask him, if he is so keen on this agenda, got

:39:05. > :39:08.he do for the last 13 years? I will tell you what we did, Mr Speaker,

:39:08. > :39:12.we introduced the 50p rate of income tax that he and chiz

:39:12. > :39:16.Chancellor want to abolish! I'm glad we agree something needs to be

:39:16. > :39:22.done about top pay. Last... Conservative members should calm

:39:22. > :39:27.down, follow the Prime Minister's advice, just calm down. Last March,

:39:27. > :39:33.last March, his fair pay review, which he set up, recommended that

:39:33. > :39:39.the Government should require by January of 2012, next year, that

:39:39. > :39:43.every top company should publish how much the highest earners get

:39:43. > :39:49.compared to the average earner that. Type of transparency is the least

:39:49. > :39:53.we can expect. Can he confirm that this will happen from January 2012,

:39:53. > :39:56.yes or no? Unlike the last Government, we are consulting on a

:39:56. > :40:03.series of steps to bring responsibility to the boardroom.

:40:03. > :40:08.But very to say, Mr Speaker, we are a little bit, we are a little bit

:40:08. > :40:13.wary about accepting lectures from a party that told us they were

:40:13. > :40:18.intensely relaxed about everyone getting filthy rich, a party that

:40:18. > :40:22.had a capital gains tax system so people in the City paid less tax

:40:22. > :40:25.than their cleaner. I know he's forgotten these things but we

:40:25. > :40:32.remember them and we've done something about it. Mr Speaker,

:40:32. > :40:36.another report to Government, another failure to act. The truth

:40:36. > :40:40.is, he has sat on Will Hutton's review upon the 9 months and done

:40:40. > :40:43.nothing about it. That's why the recommendation isn't going to be

:40:43. > :40:48.implemented. Mr Speaker, that's the truth about this Prime Minister. He

:40:48. > :40:53.says we are all in it together but he lets the top 1% get away with it

:40:53. > :40:56.while the other 99% see their living standards squeezed and lose

:40:56. > :41:00.their jobs. That's why people are increasingly saying this is a Prime

:41:00. > :41:06.Minister totally out of touch with their lives.

:41:06. > :41:10.I to say, in the week when the Labour Party has hired a former tax

:41:10. > :41:14.exile to run their election campaign he's got a bit of nerve to

:41:14. > :41:18.lecture us on that. 13 years they had to regulate the banks. They did

:41:18. > :41:22.nothing. 13 years they had to deal with bank bonuses. They did nothing.

:41:22. > :41:28.And now in opposition their message to business is, give us some money,

:41:28. > :41:32.you can run our election. THE SPEAKER: Jason McCartney.

:41:32. > :41:38.Thank you Mr Speaker. Cable theft that cost the rail industry �43

:41:38. > :41:42.million over the last three years. And they've even drafted in Gurkhas

:41:42. > :41:48.to patrol the network. Homes and churchs are being pilfered of their

:41:48. > :41:53.lead and copper. In the past month one church yard in Huddersfield has

:41:53. > :41:59.had 169 memorial plaques stolen. Will the Prime Minister join me in

:41:59. > :42:03.saying now is the time to legislate to stop these stolen metals going

:42:03. > :42:08.to merchants? My honourable friend makes an extremely important point.

:42:08. > :42:10.The theft of metal, particularly from war memorials, is a sickening

:42:10. > :42:13.and disgusting crime. We are workering with the Association of

:42:13. > :42:17.Chief Police Officers to put in place an action plan to deal with

:42:17. > :42:19.this. It does involve looking again at the regulation of scrap metal

:42:20. > :42:24.dealers. We are determined to do that to put a stop to this

:42:24. > :42:27.appalling crime. People in my constituency in north

:42:27. > :42:31.Belfast and right across the country are desperately worried

:42:31. > :42:36.about the increasing costs of gas, electricity, home heating oil, how

:42:36. > :42:40.they are going to keep their homes warm this winter. What can the

:42:40. > :42:44.Prime Minister tell the country he is going to do to help people in

:42:44. > :42:47.this situation? In particular, will he reverse the cuts to winter fuel

:42:47. > :42:51.allowance, which hits senior citizens, it is not good enough

:42:51. > :42:54.surely to say he's following the plans of the opposition. He's done

:42:54. > :42:58.so many things differently from the opposition. Why isn't he going to

:42:58. > :43:02.do something different with the winter fuel allowance? On the issue

:43:02. > :43:05.of winter fuel allowance we've kept the plans set out by the last

:43:05. > :43:08.Government. I think that's the right thing to do. On the cold

:43:08. > :43:12.weather payments we've taken the increase ma was meant for one year

:43:12. > :43:16.and we've maintained that, so if there is a particularly cold

:43:16. > :43:18.weather they'll get that help. We are making sure that energy

:43:18. > :43:22.companies give people proper information in about the lowest

:43:22. > :43:27.tariffs they can get, and yes have proper reform of the energy market.

:43:27. > :43:30.Again, something that the party opposite has suddenly started to

:43:30. > :43:33.talk about but did absolutely nothing about in Government.

:43:33. > :43:37.Speaker, public sector pension reform should be achieved through

:43:37. > :43:41.negotiation and compromise. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is

:43:41. > :43:45.wholly irresponsible and down right destructive for senior politicians

:43:45. > :43:49.of any political party to support strike action while negotiations

:43:49. > :43:53.are ongoing? My honourable friend is right. This

:43:53. > :43:57.I think is a very fair offer to hard-working public servants to say

:43:57. > :44:02.that this is a strong set of pension reforms that will give you

:44:02. > :44:07.pensions that are still better than anything available in the private

:44:07. > :44:12.sector. To have a Labour frontbench that is silent on this issue, with

:44:12. > :44:16.their education spokesman encouraging teachers to strike is

:44:16. > :44:21.the height of irresponsibility. Speaker, my constituents Alan and

:44:21. > :44:27.Linda Eastwood have a son who has been serving in our nation's armed

:44:27. > :44:36.forces in Afghanistan. In common with with Royal British Legion Mr

:44:36. > :44:41.and Mrs Easton regard the Prime Minister's decision to abolish the

:44:41. > :44:48.post to be a betrayal. This is a very important issue and I have

:44:48. > :44:50.discussions with the British Legion about it it as I know the Lord

:44:50. > :44:57.Chancellor has as well. The point about the Royal British Legion,

:44:57. > :45:00.this issue, is that the current proposal for the chief crone tore

:45:00. > :45:04.the establish wood involve spending that we think the money would be

:45:04. > :45:09.better spent on improving all coroners service across the country.

:45:09. > :45:12.We are listening carefully to concerns expressed in both houses

:45:12. > :45:16.of Parliament about this issue. Are we going to improve the performance

:45:16. > :45:26.of our coroners? That is what service families want. That is what

:45:26. > :45:28.

:45:28. > :45:30.I want and that is what we will Public sector workers in my

:45:30. > :45:33.Public sector workers in my constituency work extremely hard to

:45:33. > :45:37.deliver essential public services, and I know that my Right Honourable

:45:37. > :45:40.Friend will agree with me that we value these services tremendously.

:45:40. > :45:43.Can my Right Honourable Friend the Prime Minister reassure these

:45:43. > :45:48.workers and confirm that the Government's reforms, very

:45:48. > :45:54.necessary that they are, are sustainable and remain among the

:45:54. > :45:58.very, very best? I would certainly do that. He makes an important

:45:58. > :46:02.point. The cost of supporting public sector pensions has gone up

:46:02. > :46:07.by a third in the last decade. We are now spending something like �32

:46:07. > :46:10.billion, it is a major item of public spending. And we're taking

:46:11. > :46:15.taxes off people, including in the private sector, to pay for that

:46:15. > :46:21.pension provision. But I believe it is a fair scheme. For instance, a

:46:21. > :46:26.teacher retiring on a salary of �37,000 would actually retire on a

:46:27. > :46:32.pension of �25,000 in future, more than the �19,000 that they would

:46:32. > :46:35.currently get. This is a fair set- up changes. The low paid in the

:46:35. > :46:44.public sector will not have to pay increased contributions. I think

:46:44. > :46:47.the whole House of Commons should get behind it. Mr Speaker, when the

:46:47. > :46:51.Prime Minister goes to the G20 meeting, will he try and persuade

:46:51. > :46:56.his colleagues of the urgency of coming up with some detail on the

:46:57. > :47:00.eurozone settlement reached last week? It is not at all clear how on

:47:00. > :47:05.earth Greece will get out of its difficulties, even if this

:47:05. > :47:08.referendum passes. The European banks will lead shoring up well

:47:08. > :47:17.before next summer. And as for the rescue fund, it does not actually

:47:17. > :47:23.exist. The G20 need to show the same urgency that it showed two

:47:23. > :47:26.years ago when it met in London. think the Right Honourable

:47:26. > :47:30.Gentleman is absolutely right in what he says about the urgency of

:47:30. > :47:33.this G20 meeting, and the necessity of its agenda. I think some

:47:33. > :47:37.progress was made at the European council meeting a week ago when

:47:37. > :47:42.actually, for the first time, they did accept a proper write-down of

:47:42. > :47:45.Greek debt, which has to be part of the solution, also, a proper

:47:45. > :47:49.recapitalisation of Europe's banks, done to a credible test, rather

:47:49. > :47:55.than the incredible tests which we have had in months gone by. The

:47:55. > :47:59.final element he refers to, rightly, needs to have more substance added,

:47:59. > :48:03.and that is to make sure there is a proper firewall to stop contagion

:48:03. > :48:06.in the eurozone. The need has got even greater. We cannot involve

:48:06. > :48:10.ourselves in Greek domestic politics, but it has become even

:48:10. > :48:14.more urgent to put meat on the bones of these plans, to show that

:48:14. > :48:17.we are removing one of the key obstacles to global growth, which

:48:17. > :48:20.is the failure to find a proper plan to deal with the problems in

:48:20. > :48:26.the eurozone. According to the Government's own projections,

:48:26. > :48:30.Britain's population is set to increase from 62 million to 70

:48:30. > :48:34.million by 2027, with two thirds of this being driven by immigration.

:48:34. > :48:38.Will the Prime Minister commit to stem this increase by breaking the

:48:38. > :48:43.almost automatic link between foreign nationals who come to work

:48:43. > :48:49.here subsequently been granted citizenship? We are committed to

:48:49. > :48:52.doing exactly that. He is right to raise this issue. I think proper

:48:52. > :48:55.immigration control and welfare reform are to sides of the same

:48:55. > :48:58.coin, and this government is committed to controlling

:48:58. > :49:03.immigration properly but also putting British people back to work.

:49:03. > :49:07.I can tell him that today, we have announced, in terms of the illegal

:49:07. > :49:10.immigration coming through the student route, that more than 450

:49:10. > :49:13.colleges will no longer be able to sponsor a new international

:49:13. > :49:16.students because they were not actually properly established to do

:49:17. > :49:20.that. These, just could have brought in more than 11,000

:49:21. > :49:23.students to the UK to study each year. That is just one example of

:49:23. > :49:28.how this government is living up to its promise to get a grip on

:49:28. > :49:33.immigration. Does the Prime Minister agree with the vast

:49:33. > :49:43.majority of people that smoking should be banned in vehicles where

:49:43. > :49:46.there are children present? I do think it is right, I have to admit,

:49:46. > :49:51.as a former smoker, and someone who believes strongly in Liberty,

:49:51. > :49:55.someone who did not support it at the time, it has worked, I think

:49:56. > :50:00.the smoking ban is successful. I'm much more nervous about going into

:50:00. > :50:06.what people do inside a vehicle. I will look carefully at what he says,

:50:06. > :50:10.but we have just think seriously about it. The Prime Minister will

:50:10. > :50:15.be aware of a report issued yesterday on green energy

:50:15. > :50:19.investment in Scotland. Does he agree with me that this report ably

:50:19. > :50:24.demonstrates that the benefits of green energy in the UK are only

:50:24. > :50:28.unlocked by combining Scotland's renewable potential with large-

:50:28. > :50:32.scale investment made possible by the UK? Does he agree that a drawn

:50:32. > :50:37.out independence referendum would be a serious distraction from that?

:50:37. > :50:40.He makes an important point. A major financial institution warned

:50:40. > :50:43.yesterday of the dangers of investing in Scotland while there

:50:43. > :50:49.is this uncertainty about the future of the constitution. It is

:50:49. > :50:51.important that we keep our United Kingdom together, and stressed that

:50:51. > :50:55.when it comes to vital industries, like green technology, the

:50:55. > :50:58.combination of a green investment bank, sponsored by the United

:50:59. > :51:03.Kingdom government, and the many natural advantages in Scotland, can

:51:03. > :51:06.make this a great industry, but we will only do it if we keep the

:51:06. > :51:10.country together. The Prime Minister said that his government

:51:10. > :51:15.would be the greenest ever, does he still take that statement

:51:15. > :51:19.seriously? If so, will he personally intervene to sort out

:51:19. > :51:24.the appalling chaos which is resulting from the slashing of

:51:24. > :51:33.feeding tariffs in six weeks' time, leading to substantial job losses

:51:33. > :51:36.and chaos in the industry? It is this government that has set aside

:51:36. > :51:42.�3 billion for a green investment bank, much talk about in the past,

:51:42. > :51:45.never done. This government has put in place a carbon price floor, one

:51:45. > :51:50.of the first governments anywhere in the world to do that. We have

:51:50. > :51:56.put aside �1 billion for carbon capture and storage. This is a very

:51:56. > :52:00.green government, living up to our promises. It would the Prime

:52:00. > :52:04.Minister join me in congratulating the pupils and staff at Whitchurch

:52:05. > :52:13.High School, a foundation status comprehensive school in my

:52:13. > :52:16.constituency, the former school of Sam Warburton, of Gareth Bale, both

:52:16. > :52:24.outstanding sports people, and also Geraint Thomas, the gold medallist,

:52:24. > :52:27.who will be receiving the award as state school of the year? It is a

:52:27. > :52:32.very impressive list of sports personalities who have attended

:52:32. > :52:34.this School, I don't know what they put in the water! But I would join

:52:34. > :52:41.My Honourable Friend in congratulating such an excellent

:52:41. > :52:46.school. In the past four years, six children and two adults have been

:52:46. > :52:51.killed in dog attacks, and some 6,000 postal workers are attacked

:52:51. > :52:53.each year. We need to tighten up the law in this area. Would the

:52:53. > :52:57.Prime Minister take a personal interest and make sure that

:52:57. > :53:03.legislation is brought forward? Honourable Lady makes an important

:53:03. > :53:07.point. Legislative attempts at this in the past have not always been

:53:07. > :53:14.successful at capturing the breeds that need to be captured. I will

:53:14. > :53:19.certainly take a personal interest in this. Following the Prime

:53:19. > :53:23.Minister's answers a moment ago, and given the huge anger about the

:53:23. > :53:30.pay for the top 100 directors, can he give me a personal assurance

:53:30. > :53:35.that he is committed to the transfer of power overpay from the

:53:35. > :53:39.boardroom to the shareholders of our companies? I want to see that

:53:39. > :53:42.happen. I think the answer to this is much more transparency about the

:53:42. > :53:48.levels of pay, much more accountability and strengthening

:53:48. > :53:51.the hand of shareholders. And there is something else we need to do, to

:53:51. > :53:55.make sure that non-executive directors on boards are not the

:53:55. > :53:59.usual rotating list of men patting each other's backs and increasing

:53:59. > :54:09.the level of remuneration. I want to see more women in Britain's

:54:09. > :54:19.

:54:19. > :54:24.boardrooms. Order! The House must come down, I want to hear

:54:24. > :54:30.MrDavidLammy. The Prime Minister has described his work programme as

:54:30. > :54:36.the biggest such programme since the 1930s. But there are 6,500

:54:36. > :54:40.people unemployed in Tottenham, 28,000 on out-of-work benefits, and

:54:40. > :54:44.only 150 vacancies - what is his work programme going to do about

:54:44. > :54:48.that? As the Right Honourable Gentleman says, this programme

:54:48. > :54:52.plays a key role in preparing people for work, which is

:54:52. > :54:56.absolutely vital. It also brings employers in to offer jobs to those

:54:56. > :55:00.people. I have looked specifically at the issue of Tottenham. When I

:55:00. > :55:03.visited his constituency with him, I know that there is a shortage of

:55:03. > :55:06.vacancies in the borough of Tottenham itself. But we have got

:55:07. > :55:13.to encourage people living in London to be prepared to travel

:55:13. > :55:20.more widely to look for work. I think that is absolutely vital. Pot

:55:20. > :55:24.of the work programme should be aimed at addressing exactly that.

:55:24. > :55:28.Rural fire services attend more primary fires and more road traffic

:55:28. > :55:32.accidents than those in urban areas, and yet receive less funding. This

:55:32. > :55:38.is typical of rural services across the piece, where residents pay more

:55:38. > :55:41.and receive less. Will the Prime Minister meet with me and other MPs

:55:41. > :55:48.representing rural areas to get a fairer deal for those in rural

:55:48. > :55:52.areas? I'm happy to meet with My Honourable Friend. It is important

:55:52. > :56:02.that we have a fair deal for rural areas. There are very big

:56:02. > :56:02.

:56:02. > :56:06.difference is particularly in the use of Retained firefighters.

:56:06. > :56:11.nine months, the Government's Business Growth fund has invested

:56:11. > :56:15.in precisely two companies. At a time when the economy is flatline

:56:16. > :56:20.ing, is that good enough? This Government has cut corporation tax

:56:20. > :56:24.for every business in the country, has introduced enterprise zones to

:56:24. > :56:28.help employment, has actually increased the number of

:56:28. > :56:32.apprenticeships by 250,000 over the life of this Parliament. They

:56:32. > :56:38.criticised the Regional Growth Fund - there was no Regional Growth Fund

:56:38. > :56:42.under Labour, that's the point. We inherited an economy with the

:56:42. > :56:45.biggest budget deficit in Europe, and it is this government which is

:56:45. > :56:55.helping our economy through the international storms to make sure

:56:55. > :56:57.

:56:57. > :57:01.we remain safe in the UK. This week marks national Adoption Week. We

:57:01. > :57:07.must continue to do all we can to support children in the care system,

:57:07. > :57:11.and also to encourage prospective adoptive parents to come forward.

:57:11. > :57:16.My Honourable Friend makes an extremely important point. We need

:57:16. > :57:19.more parents to come forward as potential adopters, and also has

:57:19. > :57:21.potential foster carers, because there was a huge build up of

:57:21. > :57:24.children in the care system who will not get that help unless

:57:24. > :57:27.people come forward. But it is important that government makes the

:57:28. > :57:32.pledge that we will make the process of adoption and fostering

:57:32. > :57:36.simpler. It has become too bureaucratic and too difficult, and

:57:37. > :57:43.as a result, that is putting people off. I am determined that we crack

:57:43. > :57:47.this. It is a sense of national shame that while there are 3,600

:57:47. > :57:50.children under the age of one in the care system, there were only 60

:57:50. > :57:54.adoptions last year. We are publishing information on every

:57:54. > :57:59.single council, so people can see how we are doing in terms of

:57:59. > :58:03.driving this vital agenda. This week, yet another military academic

:58:03. > :58:06.has called for the reopening of the defence review, and a leading

:58:06. > :58:10.military think-tank has said that Britain is now cutting military

:58:10. > :58:14.equipment which might prove vital in the future. Will the Prime

:58:14. > :58:19.Minister finally listen to the voices of the defence community and

:58:19. > :58:24.reopen the deeply flawed defence review? We had no defence review

:58:24. > :58:28.for 10 years, and now they want two in one go. It is typical of the

:58:28. > :58:31.opportunism of the party opposite. I think this is a day, as

:58:31. > :58:38.hostilities in Libya are coming to an end, that we should be praising

:58:38. > :58:42.our brave armed services. Schools in rural Northumberland were

:58:42. > :58:49.largely ignored by the previous government. With the school's

:58:49. > :58:55.budget rising from �35 billion to �39 billion in 2015, will the Prime

:58:55. > :59:00.Minister welcome the progression in my constituency? I will. It is

:59:00. > :59:04.important to note that as we are protecting the per pupil funding,

:59:04. > :59:08.even at a difficult time, it means the education budget is going to be

:59:08. > :59:15.rising and not falling. As ever, the Shadow Chancellor is wrong even

:59:15. > :59:23.when he is sitting down. He talks even more rubbish when he stands up.

:59:23. > :59:26.I digress. As well as the extra investment in the school's budget,

:59:26. > :59:34.there is also the opportunity for free schools, which I think will be

:59:34. > :59:38.a major reform in our country to bring more school places. Perhaps

:59:38. > :59:44.when the Shadow Chancellor attends one of the schools he will then a

:59:44. > :59:51.few manners. Some people are going to burst, they're getting so

:59:51. > :59:57.excited. Will the Prime Minister listen to the campaigners outside

:59:57. > :00:01.Parliament today, and the 80,000 people who have written to him in

:00:01. > :00:05.recent weeks, regarding the introduction of a Robin Hood tax at

:00:05. > :00:10.the G20 summit, and make sure the Revenue is earmarked for

:00:10. > :00:17.sustainable development and the growing climate crisis? I think

:00:17. > :00:26.there is widespread support for the principles behind such a tax, but

:00:26. > :00:31.it has to be adopted on a global basis. We must be careful that we

:00:32. > :00:35.do not allow other countries, including some European countries,

:00:35. > :00:39.to use a campaign for this tax, which they know is unlikely to be

:00:39. > :00:43.adopted in the short term, as an excuse for getting off their aid

:00:44. > :00:47.commitments. We can be proud of the fact that we are meeting our aid

:00:47. > :00:52.commitments - don't let others use this tax as a way of getting out of

:00:52. > :00:58.things they had promised. The world population went past 7 billion

:00:58. > :01:04.people this week. The UN predicts that over the next 40 years, world

:01:04. > :01:10.demand for food will increase by a 70%. That should be good news for

:01:10. > :01:13.farmers. But since 1990, Britain's capacity to feed itself has fallen

:01:13. > :01:18.by a fifth. Will the Prime Minister bring forward a credible strategy

:01:18. > :01:21.to grow Britain's farming industry to feed us all in the future?

:01:21. > :01:25.Honourable Friend makes an important point. It is true that we

:01:25. > :01:28.have seen our own food security declining, as well as food

:01:28. > :01:31.production being severely challenged. It is important to

:01:31. > :01:36.remember that farmers are businesses, and they need things

:01:36. > :01:39.done, as other businesses do, in terms of the regulation, a

:01:39. > :01:49.predictable income, and all of those things. This government is

:01:49. > :01:53.

:01:53. > :01:56.committed to making that happen. September 2010, when asked if this

:01:56. > :01:59.government would be building more homes per year, the Housing

:01:59. > :02:05.Minister replied, yes, building more homes is the gold standard

:02:05. > :02:09.upon which we shall be judged. In which year it does the Prime

:02:09. > :02:13.Minister expect his gold standard to be achieved? We have said that

:02:13. > :02:17.we are going to expand the building of homes for social rent by

:02:17. > :02:21.actually increasing and reintroducing the right to buy,

:02:21. > :02:25.which the last government so scandalously ran down. We're also

:02:25. > :02:28.going to make available government land so that builders can get on

:02:28. > :02:32.and build without having to buy that land, and only have to pay

:02:33. > :02:36.when they have actually delivered the House. So, we want to see an

:02:36. > :02:46.extra 200,000 homes built in that way. That will give us a far better

:02:46. > :02:47.

:02:47. > :02:51.record than the government which he A couple of developments have been

:02:51. > :02:57.happening in the outside world. We are told that the Government's new

:02:58. > :03:03.offer to the unions on pension reforms includes a proposal that 1

:03:04. > :03:08.million public sector workers due to retire in the ten years from

:03:08. > :03:13.April next year will not be affected by any of the changes

:03:13. > :03:17.currently being discussed. I think Danny Alexander is making a

:03:17. > :03:22.statement in the Commons about that. We'll come back to that.

:03:22. > :03:30.While on air, a technical matter, but it could be a harbinger to come.

:03:30. > :03:36.There's been a spike in the yields bonds pay. This is a sign perhaps

:03:36. > :03:42.of the fear of the contagion coming out of Greece, first of all hitting

:03:42. > :03:47.Italian bonds this week and now French bodies. There's a real worry

:03:47. > :03:51.in France that it would lose its AAA credit rating. Prime Minister's

:03:51. > :03:54.Questions didn't get into much of that at all. It was only when

:03:54. > :03:58.Alistair Darling got to his feet that the matter of the eurozone and

:03:58. > :04:02.Greece and the referendum and if bail-out plan, which Mr Darling was

:04:02. > :04:06.not convinced by, only did did the Commons turn itself to the main

:04:06. > :04:11.matter of the day, the week, the month, the year. Until then there

:04:11. > :04:14.had been no discussion of it. Let's hear what you had to say about

:04:14. > :04:17.Prime Minister's Questions. Viewers I think are reflecting their

:04:17. > :04:23.frustration that the seriousness of the global situation which you've

:04:23. > :04:26.been talking about should be dealt with in what they see is a partisan

:04:26. > :04:32.way. They want solutions. And there was quite a lot of criticism of

:04:32. > :04:35.David Cameron. Many viewers think he is not answering the questions.

:04:35. > :04:39.Ellis King, when David Cameron was new to power, blaming Labour was

:04:39. > :04:43.effective and true. However with the problems we face abroad and in

:04:43. > :04:47.our country, to merely blame the previous Government appears weak

:04:47. > :04:52.and holds the nation back. Anne says Cameron is blaming

:04:52. > :05:00.everyone but the himself. When will he take responsibility for his

:05:00. > :05:04.Government's policies? And Ed says Ed Miliband totally smashed David

:05:04. > :05:11.Cameron. Damien from Manchester says Ed Miliband, who was in power

:05:11. > :05:16.for 13 years, who spent every penny we didn't have, so before he plays

:05:16. > :05:20.the cheap opportunist card maybe he should look at his own record.

:05:20. > :05:25.Martin says Labour are returning to type. Their attack has moved on to

:05:25. > :05:32.the them and us opportunism. Miliband's pathetic attempt to talk

:05:32. > :05:37.about the 99% versus 1% is old- style jealousy and spite, not a

:05:37. > :05:39.credible policy agenda. Alistair Darling's question, the former

:05:39. > :05:44.Chancellor. James says the first sensible question from the other

:05:44. > :05:50.side. Careful, this may catch on. Nick, there's a sense in which

:05:50. > :05:57.British politics is on hold at the moment. Until events outside our

:05:57. > :06:01.control unravel, develop, come to some kind of finality? I think what

:06:01. > :06:05.Ed Miliband was trying to do as Labour leader is say look, there

:06:05. > :06:10.are problems in the British economy that are due to British policies

:06:10. > :06:14.not the eurozone. I know he believes that, in the short term,

:06:14. > :06:20.this eurozone crisis is politically, and I stress the word politically,

:06:20. > :06:26.is convenient for the Government. Of course it is not welcome to what

:06:26. > :06:31.it does to our economy. In the short term, what Labour want to say

:06:31. > :06:35.is snow, a lot of the poor figures we are seeing now predated the

:06:35. > :06:38.eurozone. It may make it harder, it may mean there are headwinds.

:06:39. > :06:42.That's the argument he was trying to get going I think at Prime

:06:43. > :06:46.Minister's Questions. But it had the slight feel until Alistair

:06:46. > :06:52.Darling stood up of feeling irrelevant compared to what's going

:06:52. > :06:56.on. Other than urging and cajoling, but get any impression from the

:06:56. > :07:03.background briefings about the G20 coming up in the south of friend

:07:03. > :07:07.tomorrow, and Friday, the two days, 3rd and 4th November, do we have a

:07:07. > :07:16.strategy? Do we matter? Well, the answer I think to most of that is

:07:16. > :07:20.no. Of course we matter. Remember the G20, we are a member of the G20.

:07:20. > :07:26.But in a sense what's happening is that a summit that was planned to

:07:26. > :07:30.begin tomorrow lunchtime and go through to Friday is starting this

:07:30. > :07:33.afternoon. Chancellor Merkel and President Sarkozy of France have

:07:33. > :07:38.summoned the Greek Prime Minister to come. He's not a member of the

:07:38. > :07:41.G20. No, Greece shouldn't be at this event, but as a result of his

:07:41. > :07:45.call to the referendum he's been summoned. There is going to be a

:07:45. > :07:52.meeting involving the President of the commission, Jose Manuel Barroso,

:07:52. > :07:55.the head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, and others, trying to

:07:55. > :08:00.strengthen the eurozone package that looks like unravelling,

:08:00. > :08:06.despite the fact it is only a few days old, so that the whole of the

:08:06. > :08:10.G20 meeting isn't taken over with a panic about what to do in the face

:08:10. > :08:16.of the Greek decision which could mean the eurozone bail-out deal is

:08:16. > :08:21.torn to shreds in January when a referendum is held. It is quite

:08:21. > :08:24.clear, Hilary Benn, that Alistair Darling, who knows a thing or two

:08:24. > :08:30.about these matters, isn't convinced that the bail-out deal as

:08:30. > :08:33.it stands is a winner. Everyone is very anxious about it. Clearly the

:08:33. > :08:37.decision of the Greek Prime Minister ratified by his Cabinet in

:08:37. > :08:41.the early hours to hold this referendum has created a lot of

:08:41. > :08:46.uncertainty The end the broke have to determine their own way of

:08:46. > :08:50.deciding whether to support it or not. But, this is a very dangerous

:08:50. > :08:53.time for everybody. I think Nick is also right. There are two things

:08:54. > :08:57.going on. There is the eurozone crisis. If that goes wrong is going

:08:57. > :09:01.to affect every economy. And there is the crisis of domestic economic

:09:01. > :09:06.policy, which is the failure of the Government's economic plan to work.

:09:06. > :09:10.That's why the economy's grown by 0.5% in a year. There are things

:09:10. > :09:13.the Government could do but they are refusing to do them. Of course

:09:13. > :09:17.it's the opposition's job to point out how the Government could be

:09:17. > :09:23.running the economy doctor, from its own point of view. But when the

:09:23. > :09:27.OECD as it did this week predicts that the eurozone will grow by only

:09:27. > :09:32.0.3% next year, including Germany, the whole of the eurozone, which

:09:32. > :09:36.frankly means it could go into recession, because economists use

:09:37. > :09:43.decimal points to show they have a sense of humour. They have no idea

:09:43. > :09:47.if it is going to grow by 0.3 or minus 0.3, then the British

:09:47. > :09:51.economy's performance looks par for the course. So in that sense we are

:09:51. > :09:55.all in it together! Clearly the British economy, as every economy

:09:55. > :09:58.in Europe, is going to be affected if the eurozone crisis gets worse

:09:58. > :10:02.and that comes to pass. But you have to look at what the Government

:10:02. > :10:07.is doing in terms of the plan they put forward when they came into

:10:07. > :10:13.office. If it simply in not working. It inherited a growing economy and

:10:13. > :10:17.growth is now flat lining. LAUGHTER You may laugh, Alan, but it is the

:10:17. > :10:21.case, as you know. And therefore it could take action to stimulate

:10:21. > :10:25.demand, because in the end we know already that the Government is

:10:25. > :10:33.going to have to borrow more than they were planning and they are

:10:33. > :10:37.going to have to downgrade their forecast. I think Alistair

:10:37. > :10:42.Darling's one question outshone Ed Miliband's six. He is a serious guy

:10:42. > :10:45.asking a serious question. It is astonishing that a day before G20

:10:45. > :10:49.the leader of the Labour Party doesn't ask a serious question on

:10:49. > :10:51.the global economy. We were talking about this earlier, Britain is in a

:10:51. > :10:55.different position from the European mainland. Thank goodness

:10:55. > :10:58.we are in the in the euro that. Vindicates what we've been arguing

:10:59. > :11:02.for over a decade. We also have low interest rates and are urgeing

:11:02. > :11:07.forward. We are not on the brink of collapse, like agreements The

:11:07. > :11:11.danger is that if Greece on the back of this referendum were to end

:11:11. > :11:15.up having a total default, that would smack the French very hard,

:11:15. > :11:19.which is why their bond yields have suddenly spiked this morning. And

:11:19. > :11:23.the European mainland would be in a very difficult position. Hillary,

:11:23. > :11:27.one of the reasons we keep on saying look, Labour governments

:11:27. > :11:30.always run out of money and they made a mess, is the effect of doing

:11:31. > :11:34.so lasts for the very long term. You can't flick a finger and go

:11:34. > :11:38.back to growth. You can't flick a finger and employ people just like

:11:38. > :11:42.that. The pain that we are suffering are labour pains because

:11:42. > :11:46.you spent too much money, said vote for me, I'm going to spend lots of

:11:46. > :11:50.money, and, as we are seeing with the pensions challenges, then of

:11:51. > :11:56.course the Government always lets people down. Let me try and bring

:11:56. > :12:00.you back to the exact moment. I'm genuinely puzzled at the Labour

:12:00. > :12:04.policy position at the moment. I would be grateful if you could

:12:04. > :12:09.explain it. At a time when too much debt is clear through real problem

:12:09. > :12:13.for Greece at the moment. It can't service it. When worries about

:12:13. > :12:19.servicing Italian debt have taken bond yields to over 6%, when

:12:19. > :12:23.worries about financing Spanish debt have taken it to over 6%. And

:12:23. > :12:30.worries about French debt are now producing these kind of spikes in

:12:30. > :12:34.bonds, how can you credibly argue that you would increase by an even

:12:34. > :12:37.faster rate British debt? Well, the Government is going to have to

:12:37. > :12:46.borrow more anyway because its economic plan isn't working. That

:12:46. > :12:50.is already very clear. That is the case. But you want more?

:12:50. > :12:53.borrowed less... Let him finish. The Government is going to have to

:12:53. > :12:56.borrow more, and therefore it is how you strike the balance. What's

:12:56. > :13:01.happening at the moment is unemployment is rising. When people

:13:01. > :13:05.lose their jobs they stop paying tax, you start paying out JSA, it

:13:05. > :13:11.costs the Government money. We were told a year and a bit ago a this

:13:11. > :13:17.plan was going to work. Private sector jobs would be created to

:13:17. > :13:20.outweigh the jobs in the punt sector. If the plan doesn't seem to

:13:20. > :13:24.be working then Government should be revisiting their approach. I

:13:24. > :13:28.think that's very sensible advice. I think the time has come for the

:13:28. > :13:33.Chancellor to do precisely that. Your sentence, the Government is

:13:33. > :13:36.having to borrow more, is not a logical sentence. It's a fact.

:13:36. > :13:43.we are having to finance and fund the deficit which we were left. But

:13:43. > :13:47.you can only do that as best you can. Yes we put up VAT, we are

:13:47. > :13:52.trying to maximise revenues. If there's a hole you have to full the

:13:52. > :13:55.hole. You want to add to that by paying out of a mortgage with a

:13:55. > :14:00.bigger mortgage. That's lunacy. immediate question David Cameron

:14:00. > :14:04.will face is what does he say to what President Sarkozy is saying to

:14:04. > :14:08.the Greeks? It is pretty tough. Hef said how shocked he was and how

:14:08. > :14:12.shocked Europe was. I understand he's effectively said to the Greeks,

:14:12. > :14:18.you should treat there referendum like an in-out referendum about

:14:18. > :14:22.membership of Europe. If you vote to get out, bang goes all the IMF

:14:22. > :14:25.loans. This will be seen as quite a threatening stance. The question

:14:25. > :14:28.then, at the moment Downing Street have had nothing to say about those

:14:28. > :14:31.comments. They are tending to say that's a matter for eurozone

:14:31. > :14:35.countries not us, but there'll be pressure on the Prime Minister to

:14:35. > :14:38.express a view. It have to be an inout referendum, because there is

:14:38. > :14:42.no bail-out deal formulated to put to the Greek people. Alistair

:14:42. > :14:46.Darling would be the first person to tell up. There are too many

:14:46. > :14:49.unknowns to put it to a vote. You are off to the G20 now, are new

:14:49. > :14:55.this second. The Prime Minister goes tomorrow morning. I'm going as

:14:55. > :15:02.well. The south of France? I've checked the temperature, 18 degrees.

:15:02. > :15:07.It's a hard life. Bring us back a stick of rock. I don't think they

:15:08. > :15:12.do rock in Cannes! Sit different from Blackpool? I will talk about

:15:12. > :15:14.it later with you. Now, here's a radical idea for you - Britain

:15:14. > :15:18.should consider joining the euro. That's what the former leader of

:15:18. > :15:21.the TUC, John Monks, thinks. Given the state of the eurozone, you'd be

:15:21. > :15:31.forgiven for thinking he's gone mad. But does he have a point? Here's

:15:31. > :15:40.

:15:40. > :15:47.I favoured joining the euro at the start. In the hope that it would

:15:47. > :15:51.better shape. It might seem crazy to many, particularly at the moment,

:15:51. > :15:57.but I think it's important that Britain is prepared to reconsider

:15:57. > :16:01.its attitude to joining the euro, provided the present crisis is

:16:01. > :16:05.resolved satisfactorily. If the eurozone survives the current

:16:05. > :16:10.crisis it is inevitable that the 17 members will have to work more

:16:10. > :16:14.closely to get on a range of economic issues. If Britain stays

:16:14. > :16:24.outside, then it risks losing influence both in Europe and in the

:16:24. > :16:34.

:16:34. > :16:39.I know that many of my compatriots want to reduce the role of Britain

:16:39. > :16:43.in the EU, not to enhance it. But I believe it is important to keep up

:16:43. > :16:48.Britain's influence on the single market, and on trade and relations

:16:48. > :16:53.with our neighbours across the North Sea. Except that now is not

:16:53. > :16:57.the time to join the euro currency. But at some stage in the future, if

:16:57. > :17:01.the euro comes through the present crisis, then I want to see the

:17:01. > :17:07.debate reignited, that Britain should consider whether or not it

:17:07. > :17:10.joins that currency. John Monks, who now sits in the House of Lords,

:17:10. > :17:15.is with us. It has probably an understatement to say that this is

:17:15. > :17:23.a minority view, particularly at the moment. Timing is not too good,

:17:23. > :17:28.yes. Admittedly, you gave a caveat, saying, this is not the time. But

:17:28. > :17:32.while on earth are you talking about this now? It is partly

:17:32. > :17:37.because various people I think have been saying that perhaps it was a

:17:37. > :17:40.good thing we did not cut will the euro. Before, perhaps they were

:17:40. > :17:44.concentrating on the fundamental reasons why we might consider

:17:44. > :17:49.fixing our currency into the euro system. The key ones for me are

:17:49. > :17:53.that the British economy, since the war, has rested on devaluations

:17:53. > :17:57.against neighbours across the North Sea, Germany, the Netherlands and

:17:57. > :18:01.some others. It seems to me to be crucial that we remember all the

:18:01. > :18:07.time, inside or outside the euro, that we have got to remain

:18:07. > :18:11.competitive with them. We have had two bonanzas, the North Sea and

:18:11. > :18:14.financial services, there is not going to be a third one. The

:18:14. > :18:19.competitiveness of our economy, with those neighbouring economies,

:18:19. > :18:29.is crucial. You're not advocating it now, so what kind of timing are

:18:29. > :18:34.

:18:34. > :18:38.you thinking of? In the immediate crisis, it is not desirable, but we

:18:38. > :18:42.would be in the bottom half of the league, we would be with the

:18:42. > :18:45.Mediterranean countries, I fear, at the present time. Our fundamental

:18:45. > :18:52.problem is that we're not in the first division of European

:18:52. > :18:57.countries, with Germany, the Netherlands, even Denmark, which is

:18:57. > :19:01.not in the euro but pegs its currency to the euro. I want to see

:19:01. > :19:05.Britain in that particular league, not in the Second Division. There

:19:05. > :19:12.are fears that if there is closer fiscal integration amongst the

:19:12. > :19:15.eurozone countries, that Britain will be to some extent left out

:19:15. > :19:23.checks do you see that happening? It is inevitably likely to be the

:19:23. > :19:27.case. The Prime Minister and George Osborne are urging the eurozone to

:19:27. > :19:32.move in certain directions, and so I think it is inevitable that

:19:32. > :19:35.Britain will be pushed towards the margins, reduced to comments from

:19:35. > :19:39.the touchline, and I don't think that is a particularly good

:19:39. > :19:45.position for Britain and the long- term. What do you say to that? It

:19:45. > :19:51.is a fear that has been expressed, the worry that Britain will be left

:19:51. > :19:56.on the sidelines? He has a good argument, in one sense, when we

:19:56. > :20:01.have a budget deficit, we escaped that deficit through devaluation.

:20:01. > :20:06.The solution is not to join the euro, it is not to have that budget

:20:06. > :20:11.deficit. Everyone said join - if you meet the convergence criteria,

:20:11. > :20:17.we are all the same and we can swim together. But nobody asked what the

:20:17. > :20:20.criteria for divergence were. People have not shown a united

:20:20. > :20:23.budget discipline, fiscal discipline, and that is why the

:20:23. > :20:26.system is never going to work, because you have got sovereign

:20:27. > :20:30.countries not following the rules, and the whole thing comes apart,

:20:30. > :20:37.and thank goodness that we are out of it. We should stay out of it,

:20:37. > :20:43.but have the sort of discipline which you rightly say we need.

:20:43. > :20:46.Labour Party's policy seems to be slightly unclear at the moment. At

:20:46. > :20:53.one time Tony Blair advocated joining the euro, but it did not

:20:53. > :20:55.happen. But Major, have you ruled it out forever? We were right not

:20:55. > :21:00.to have joined, and that was a decision we took when we were in

:21:00. > :21:05.government. I cannot see in the foreseeable future circumstances in

:21:06. > :21:11.which it would be the right thing to do. We are pragmatic Europeans,

:21:12. > :21:15.as opposed to ideological Europeans, and the argument has always been

:21:15. > :21:19.about what is in our national self- interest, and that's a perfectly

:21:19. > :21:24.proper way to look at it. Nobody can argue that it is in our

:21:24. > :21:30.interests at the moment. For the euro as a member states, they have

:21:30. > :21:38.got to find a way of making the eurozone work. It is true that the

:21:38. > :21:43.absence of that has created some of the difficulties. I want to get you

:21:43. > :21:45.to comment on something else. While we have been on air, the Chief

:21:46. > :21:50.Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, has been speaking to the

:21:50. > :21:53.Commons on public sector pensions. This is what he had to say. This

:21:53. > :21:57.generous offer should be more than sufficient to allow agreement to be

:21:57. > :22:01.reached with the unions, but it is an offer that is conditional upon

:22:01. > :22:05.reaching agreement. I hope on the basis of this offer, the trade

:22:05. > :22:12.unions will devote their energy to reaching agreement and not to

:22:12. > :22:14.unnecessary and damaging strike action. You have been through many

:22:14. > :22:22.negotiations - do you get a sense that we're heading for

:22:22. > :22:25.confrontation on this one? I thought these concessions were

:22:25. > :22:29.going to be mainly technical, but one of them is quite big, taking

:22:29. > :22:33.one million workers out of the reforms altogether. Will it be

:22:33. > :22:37.enough? There has been a lot of work going on. I know that Brendan

:22:38. > :22:43.Barber has been in the middle of all sorts of things. I very much

:22:43. > :22:52.hope they have got something, but I do not know the details. Nobody has

:22:52. > :22:56.rushed to the microphones. People are thinking about it, I'm sure.

:22:56. > :22:59.has cost �2 million, it has taken a team of researchers months and

:22:59. > :23:05.months to devise, many of us are not even sure what the point of it

:23:05. > :23:09.is. What am I talking about? The coalition's new happiness test.

:23:09. > :23:13.Here's what the Prime Minister said about it. From April next year we

:23:13. > :23:18.will start measuring our progress as a country not just by how our

:23:18. > :23:23.economy is growing, but by how our lives or improving, not just by

:23:23. > :23:27.standard of living, but by a quality of life. I think this is

:23:27. > :23:30.something which is important to our goal of trying to create a more

:23:30. > :23:36.family friendly country. It is something I have been calling for

:23:36. > :23:42.for a long time. The Office for National Statistics has come up

:23:42. > :23:46.with a list of 10 indicators of well-being. I wonder how long that

:23:46. > :23:49.took them. They're launching a consultation before publishing a

:23:49. > :23:53.finalist in three months' time. That will keep them in a job. We

:23:53. > :23:58.thought it was our public duty to put it to the test first. Who

:23:58. > :24:07.better to help us than a man who has always had a smile on his face,

:24:07. > :24:12.take it away, Cheggers! We have done a snapshot of some of the

:24:12. > :24:16.questions. For both of you, I want a score from one to 10, and short,

:24:16. > :24:24.succinct answers, otherwise I will just throw you off the show. For

:24:24. > :24:34.you first of all, here's the question... 10 out of 10 for my

:24:34. > :24:35.

:24:35. > :24:38.question... 10 out of 10 for my husband! 10 out of 10, too. Oh, no,

:24:38. > :24:46.husband! 10 out of 10, too. Oh, no, hang on. Do you have a job and are

:24:46. > :24:49.you happy with it? We have not got you happy with it? We have not got

:24:49. > :24:59.the graphic for that one. Yes, I do, and 10 again, if we're allowed.

:24:59. > :25:05.what about yourself? Definitely 10, I'm a happy Minister. They're such

:25:05. > :25:14.liars! Next question - are you satisfied with your income? I would

:25:14. > :25:24.be mad if I said no, so, 10 out of 10, yes! Ditto, I'm not complaining.

:25:24. > :25:30.And finally, do you trust politicians and your local council?

:25:30. > :25:39.Yes, I do. We need our politicians to deal with the problems of the

:25:39. > :25:44.world. The politicians I work with, not everybody, but the colleagues

:25:44. > :25:49.on my side, yes, I do, and I would give them a 10. Funnily enough, I

:25:49. > :25:55.would have exactly the same view, but equal and opposite. And my

:25:55. > :26:00.local Conservative councils are local Conservative councils are

:26:00. > :26:03.great. Four tough questions for you. I don't think that was honest.

:26:03. > :26:09.think it shows the problem of trying to measure happiness, it is

:26:09. > :26:18.really quite difficult. Have you not just hauled below the waterline

:26:18. > :26:25.the Government's happiness index? By not answering truthfully?

:26:25. > :26:30.you not actually try and do this under Tony Blair in 1995? I could

:26:30. > :26:35.be wrong. I do not know, to tell you the truth, but I think it is

:26:35. > :26:38.quite a hard thing to measure, in the way that they are seeking to do.

:26:39. > :26:44.At the moment, facing economic difficulties, a lot of people will

:26:44. > :26:51.be very anxious. That will affect their happiness. They might not

:26:51. > :26:54.feel secure in their job. Why is the Government spending our hard-

:26:54. > :26:59.earned cash to find out whether you're satisfied with your husband

:26:59. > :27:07.or wife? What has that got to do with you? Not an enormous amount, I

:27:07. > :27:11.suppose. Can you turn it the other way around and look at it from the

:27:11. > :27:17.public's point of view? As a member of the public, I do not want to be

:27:17. > :27:20.rude, but I think politicians become slightly cocooned when they

:27:20. > :27:25.are in power. Also it is quite nice for them to feel what the nation is

:27:25. > :27:31.feeling. It would not be a good idea to find out what the public

:27:31. > :27:38.really do think about education, health, the economy. There is a

:27:38. > :27:40.value in this. This is a new technique to get to some of the

:27:40. > :27:43.underlying feelings about what people really think about their

:27:43. > :27:50.life, their country, their circumstances, which

:27:50. > :27:55.straightforward polling does not really get. And so, I'm unhappy

:27:55. > :28:04.with my partner, unhappy with my job, with my income, and I do not

:28:04. > :28:10.trust politicians - what are you going to do about it? Not me!

:28:10. > :28:13.you do that and still stay in the government? I don't think so.

:28:14. > :28:21.People contact politicians all the time, and we get not a bad sense of

:28:21. > :28:27.how people are feeling. The task for us is, what are we going to do

:28:27. > :28:33.about it? How do we make sure the people get jobs? You could be

:28:33. > :28:39.marriage guidance councillors, in your next job. Well, having got

:28:39. > :28:45.absolutely nowhere with that... you happy, Andrew? I'm happy this