:00:27. > :00:30.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. New Prime Ministers
:00:30. > :00:33.in Italy and Greece bring relative stability to the Eurozone but what
:00:33. > :00:38.damage has all the uncertainty done to the UK economy and is there
:00:38. > :00:42.anything the Government can do about it? At the moment, they are
:00:42. > :00:46.predominantly white and male. So, should women and ethnic minority
:00:46. > :00:49.candidates be favoured in the selection of our senior judges?
:00:49. > :00:53.Unemployment is set to rise over the coming months we are told today
:00:53. > :00:56.but is a good workout what the long term jobless need to help them get
:00:56. > :01:00.back to work? Students were back on the street again last week
:01:00. > :01:10.protesting about higher tuition fees. The internet's money saving
:01:10. > :01:11.
:01:11. > :01:14.expert is here to tell us they All that in the next half hour. And
:01:14. > :01:18.with us for the whole programme today is Nikki King, who is
:01:18. > :01:20.managing director of Isuzu Truck UK. Later we will have Martin Lewis of
:01:20. > :01:25.Money Saving Expert on the programme to talk student tuition
:01:25. > :01:27.fees. If you have any questions about what the new system means for
:01:27. > :01:33.students please e-mail us at daily.politics@bbc.co.uk and we
:01:33. > :01:37.will try to put them to Martin. Now, first it was monarchs, now it is
:01:37. > :01:40.top judges. The Master of the Rolls - the most senior judge in England
:01:40. > :01:43.and Wales - has said he sees no problem with women being favoured
:01:43. > :01:47.for top legal jobs. Lord Neuberger said that if there are two equal
:01:47. > :01:51.candidates in line for a job he has no difficulty with it going to a
:01:51. > :01:56.woman or ethnic minority candidate. Currently, only one of the 11
:01:56. > :02:06.Supreme Court judges is a woman. In the Appeal Court, only four out of
:02:06. > :02:07.
:02:07. > :02:13.37 judges are women. What do you think? We are not Green spotted
:02:13. > :02:17.frogs. We are 50% of the population. Positive discrimination is a
:02:17. > :02:20.mistake. We need to be much more flexible than the way we employ
:02:20. > :02:26.women so they do not have to give up their jobs during a very
:02:26. > :02:32.important part of their career. still do not represent all reflect
:02:32. > :02:37.the community at large in the top echelons of industry. What was your
:02:37. > :02:41.experience? It was pretty good. Once you are at a certain level,
:02:41. > :02:46.you actively encouraged. The tough part is when your children are
:02:46. > :02:52.small, your parents are ill. It is always the women who have to make
:02:52. > :02:56.the sacrifices in their career. If we are more flexible and more
:02:56. > :03:00.sympathetic and allow homeworking, flexible working, we can keep our
:03:00. > :03:04.women and encourage them to get to the top. You said your experience
:03:04. > :03:11.was pretty good but you are told she could not run a fleet cells
:03:11. > :03:16.caused because you were a woman and they were men. Was that true?
:03:16. > :03:21.Absolutely true. You did come across prejudice. I did. It was
:03:21. > :03:24.very easily and quickly dealt with by me. I think positive
:03:24. > :03:30.discrimination will lead to a certain amount of resentment within
:03:30. > :03:35.the workforce. It is not a good idea. Do see a defence with there
:03:35. > :03:39.being two equal candidates and they're saying, we will give it to
:03:39. > :03:45.the women, rather than the discriminatory policies where, if
:03:45. > :03:49.the woman is less qualified, she would get the job? If that is
:03:49. > :03:55.ridiculous. Any sort of discrimination is wrong. You need
:03:55. > :03:59.to encourage people in the workplace, at the same time as they
:03:59. > :04:06.are looking after families and other things. If women decide to go
:04:07. > :04:14.part-time, is their career path stored? Absolutely not. Why not?
:04:14. > :04:19.am a woman myself. Many of my staff had to -- had started working full-
:04:19. > :04:25.time - part-time from home and part-time in the office. Nobody has
:04:25. > :04:29.to work in the office all day these days. A lot of jobs can be done
:04:29. > :04:33.from home or half from home. We have to chuck out the chintz and
:04:33. > :04:40.think outside the box. We have children coming to the office if
:04:40. > :04:45.they are not that six. Why not? We have now got a whole team of 17-
:04:45. > :04:51.year-olds and 18-year-olds who can operate holiday cover for us.
:04:51. > :04:54.must ask if they were let us bring our children in there! Now it is
:04:54. > :04:56.time for our daily quiz. The question for today is... Which
:04:56. > :05:04.former European Prime Minister, did Conservative MP Patrick Mercer
:05:04. > :05:12.reportedly compare David Cameron unfavourably to? George Papandreou,
:05:12. > :05:17.Silvio Berlusconi, Herman van Rompuy or shacks Santa, who had the
:05:17. > :05:19.same honour in Luxembourg? At the end of the show, Nikki will give us
:05:19. > :05:23.the correct answer. If you flick through the financial pages this
:05:23. > :05:26.morning, there is a sense that the Eurozone is out of intensive care
:05:26. > :05:29.but there is no doubt that its condition remains critical. What is
:05:29. > :05:32.more we are beginning to learn how the crisis is affecting the real
:05:32. > :05:35.economy. First, let's have a look at the good news. Italy and Greece
:05:35. > :05:38.have new Prime Ministers. And the cost of Italy's debt has come down
:05:38. > :05:41.slightly, after hitting a record high last week. Meanwhile major
:05:41. > :05:51.stock markets in Asia finished up overnight, while European markets
:05:51. > :05:53.
:05:53. > :05:57.have seen some gains this morning. -- drops. And what about here in
:05:57. > :06:00.the UK? Well, the interest rate we are paying on our debt has also
:06:00. > :06:03.dropped, hitting a record low last week. But now the bad news. New
:06:03. > :06:06.data out today shows the UK job market is facing a slow, painful
:06:06. > :06:08.contraction. Meanwhile, other new figures out today show banks are
:06:08. > :06:11.still failing to meet targets for lending to small businesses,
:06:11. > :06:15.although overall lending is ahead of target. But, since 2007, lending
:06:15. > :06:18.to small businesses has shrunk by about 10% a year. On Wednesday the
:06:18. > :06:24.Bank of England is expected to downgrade this year's growth
:06:24. > :06:26.forecast for the UK, from 1.5% to 1%. With us now is Labour's Chris
:06:27. > :06:36.Leslie, the Shadow Financial Secretary, and the Conservative MP
:06:37. > :06:41.
:06:41. > :06:47.Reports of the �50 billion infrastructure investment programme,
:06:47. > :06:52.does that represent a Plan B or Plan A Plas? It is really important
:06:52. > :06:56.for pension funds to find very long term investments. As I understand
:06:56. > :06:59.from the reports in the papers over the weekend, the Chancellor is
:06:59. > :07:09.tokamak making it easier for pension funds to invest in those
:07:09. > :07:12.kinds of projects. -- talking about making it easier. It is very
:07:12. > :07:17.sensible to be thinking about, for a pension funds, at a time when
:07:17. > :07:21.they are looking for really good, long-term investments, the value
:07:21. > :07:24.that infrastructure can play in that particular problem -
:07:24. > :07:28.investment problem. At the moment, long-term interest rates will
:07:28. > :07:33.government bonds are extremely low. A lot of pension funds are looking
:07:33. > :07:38.for investments that give them a stable yield. It is a PFI project
:07:38. > :07:42.essentially. That is what they are encouraging. It will not be on the
:07:42. > :07:47.balance sheet but that is what cities. There are lots of different
:07:47. > :07:50.approaches around the world. It is worth seeing whether we can use the
:07:50. > :07:55.big pools of capital that up in pension funds in the UK to see
:07:55. > :08:00.whether there is a way in which we can find investments to match
:08:00. > :08:05.liabilities. This is the sort of thing you would welcome, these
:08:06. > :08:11.sorts of projects filling the gap being left by public-sector cuts.
:08:11. > :08:17.Anything is better than nothing. I wish they would get on with it. We
:08:17. > :08:20.have had a m economy flat lining for more than a year. -- and
:08:20. > :08:27.economy. The idea of bringing forward capital projects, that is
:08:27. > :08:31.one of the five points we suggested. We do not know any details. We have
:08:31. > :08:35.the Autumn Statement. The Chancellor will probably as a --
:08:35. > :08:39.outline what he is planning. said the Chartered Institute for
:08:39. > :08:46.personal development are predicting a slow and painful contraction for
:08:46. > :08:52.jobs. This is an incredible -- incredibly important time. They
:08:52. > :08:57.really need to get on and pull out all the stops. Is Labour still
:08:57. > :09:02.really saying the Government is cutting too far and too fast?
:09:02. > :09:07.Absolutely. I can explain why. It is very simple. If you look at all
:09:07. > :09:12.the data, you cannot simply use the eurozone as an alibi for action. If
:09:13. > :09:18.they believe all our woes are down to the eurozone, that is incredibly
:09:18. > :09:23.worrying. You do not accept the reason we have so low rates on
:09:23. > :09:27.interest repayments it is because of the strict deficit reduction
:09:27. > :09:32.plan. I do not accept that. must be the only person who does
:09:32. > :09:38.not accept that. I was in the City last week speaking to bond traders
:09:38. > :09:41.in very big banks. We have our own independent currency and our own
:09:41. > :09:45.Central Bank. The reason why people are fleeing from the eurozone is
:09:45. > :09:50.that we have those independent arrangements that were established
:09:50. > :09:53.well before the Dublin came in. Very low bond yields are a sign
:09:53. > :09:58.that people are predicting interest rates will never change because the
:09:58. > :10:04.economy is so weak. It cuts both ways. If the Government is only
:10:04. > :10:10.targeting yields and Barnes, rather than jobs and growth Macro, that is
:10:10. > :10:15.a flawed strategy. The Government is not stepping up to the plate.
:10:15. > :10:18.Only 40,000 private-sector jobs have been created. The approach by
:10:18. > :10:25.Labour is completely... What you going to do about the big gap
:10:25. > :10:31.between private sector growth and job creation? We have to get the
:10:31. > :10:38.private sector growing. They cannot bear a sells out of a debt problem.
:10:38. > :10:44.-- bail ourselves out. You are having to fund unemployment and
:10:44. > :10:48.benefits. About cutting corporate taxes, it is extremely important.
:10:48. > :10:55.Creating enterprise zones across the country, at regional gross
:10:56. > :11:04.funds going into was to share and other parts of the country. The
:11:04. > :11:10.regional growth fund used to be twice as high. Can I just bring in
:11:10. > :11:16.Nikkei at this point? Would you like to see public money being
:11:16. > :11:20.spent to kick-start the economy? I would not. If you do not have the
:11:20. > :11:25.money, you cannot spend it. Business is supporting the idea
:11:25. > :11:30.that the fact the austerity plan means Britain is in a better
:11:30. > :11:35.position. The position they are in now is the better one. In your
:11:35. > :11:40.industry, you are looking at exports and imports. Various
:11:40. > :11:44.factors underpin growth. Exports have been pretty good for the
:11:45. > :11:51.eurozone recently. We struggle with investment from the Government.
:11:51. > :11:56.Consumer demand is low. What would you do to boost consumer demand?
:11:56. > :12:03.Increase confidence. All this is about lack of confidence.
:12:03. > :12:10.Government has invested over �100 billion. Businesses are investing.
:12:10. > :12:14.I do believe that confidence is important. The economic statement
:12:14. > :12:20.will be playing a very important part. It is a sign of confidence.
:12:20. > :12:24.It has not instil confidence in the public. Do you accept that the
:12:24. > :12:28.austerity plan, will there it has worked in the markets, it has
:12:28. > :12:32.choked off consumer demand? Put it on its head and ask what would be
:12:32. > :12:36.happening if we were now following a credible plan which the IMF
:12:36. > :12:40.believes in and everyone else believes him. Of course it is
:12:40. > :12:46.important to have a credible plan. If you are so stubborn as to
:12:46. > :12:51.neglect all those people who are unemployed. In my constituency
:12:51. > :12:55.youth unemployment has doubled. If you do nothing about the economy,
:12:55. > :13:03.we will continue to flat line and possibly reverse. That is what we
:13:03. > :13:10.are facing. Our company is doing quite well. We took the pain in
:13:10. > :13:14.2007, 2008. A lot of my friends who run companies are having a similar
:13:14. > :13:18.experience. We lack the confidence for next year saying we need to
:13:18. > :13:23.start using funds and start growing and taking on more people. What
:13:23. > :13:27.we're doing is keeping our overhead as fluid as possible because we
:13:27. > :13:31.might have to turn it off tomorrow. How helpful is it for the
:13:31. > :13:37.Government to continually blamed the eurozone crisis? It is making
:13:37. > :13:42.life very difficult here. The Labour have said the difficulties
:13:42. > :13:48.started before the eurozone crisis. This is creating a chilling effect
:13:48. > :13:58.on our economy. The real problem is the problems we had from be
:13:58. > :14:03.
:14:03. > :14:07.previous government. We had one had and �20 million a day interest. --
:14:07. > :14:15.�120 million. Wire countries outside the eurozone growing much
:14:15. > :14:19.faster? -- wide our countries? were given a terrible economic
:14:19. > :14:24.legacy from the previous government. You are blaming the previous
:14:24. > :14:27.government and the eurozone crisis. You are being left in paralysis. Do
:14:27. > :14:33.you think the Government has Bell to come forward with a
:14:33. > :14:38.comprehensive plan? The economy needs to be put on a longer term,
:14:38. > :14:44.stronger footing. No one said coming out of the debt crisis would
:14:44. > :14:49.be an easy economic recovery. glad that Harriet is confident. I
:14:49. > :14:54.hope she is right. All the evidence suggests that things are going into
:14:54. > :14:58.really dangerous territory. The eurozone is worse but we are
:14:58. > :15:04.fragile. I wish the Government would take responsibility for the
:15:04. > :15:09.current state of affairs. I wish we had an opposition that was
:15:09. > :15:16.constructive. We should be putting and repeating a bank bonus levy so
:15:16. > :15:18.we can get affordable housing and jobs for young people. We should be
:15:18. > :15:24.putting national insurance contributions stand for small
:15:24. > :15:28.employers. We have a five-point plan. I am asking for a hearing
:15:28. > :15:38.from the Chancellor who is sticking, regardless of the evidence in the
:15:38. > :15:40.
:15:40. > :15:43.economy. What would you like to hit The idea of a bank levy tax is
:15:43. > :15:47.ridiculous. I'm talking about the bonuses.
:15:47. > :15:50.One of the problems is we have is this concentrating for shareholder
:15:50. > :15:54.value. They are looking at.
:15:54. > :15:58.If I was Prime Minister I would make it a rule that all heads of
:15:58. > :16:02.all major companies in the UK would commit to stay for ten years and
:16:02. > :16:08.that stops two year plans where you get your bonus because you've cut
:16:08. > :16:16.costs, you don't care what's going to happen in two years. "I have May
:16:16. > :16:20.made more -- I've made more money for the company. I'll get my bonus.
:16:21. > :16:26.I'm off.". Talking about confidence is one thing, there are no
:16:26. > :16:29.specifics in terms of how to create it. All the things that we are
:16:29. > :16:34.doing and the bond markets show that investors have confidence in
:16:34. > :16:38.the UK's plan. Investors are seeing the UK as a safe haven in in
:16:38. > :16:40.troubled times across Europe and those low low interest rates are so
:16:40. > :16:45.important because it means mortgage rates are lower. People are not
:16:45. > :16:49.having to pay as much every month and that over time will give an
:16:49. > :16:53.economic recovery. The one thing Government could do,
:16:53. > :16:57.rather than giving small amounts of money under tremendous conditions
:16:57. > :17:00.to business, if they would guarantee loans to the banks it
:17:00. > :17:04.would make a hell of a lot of difference.
:17:04. > :17:06.I am looking forward to hearing about that in the autumn statement.
:17:06. > :17:10.There are predictions today that unemployment will rise in the
:17:10. > :17:13.coming months and on Wednesday, youth unemployment could reach one
:17:14. > :17:17.million. Private companies running the Government's work programme in
:17:17. > :17:26.Britain are looking at ways of getting some of those without jobs
:17:26. > :17:31.It sounds like an idea from the manifesto of the Nasty Party, you
:17:31. > :17:37.put the unemployed into the hands of a PE instructor who makes them
:17:37. > :17:40.do press-ups until they have got a job, but the reality for these
:17:40. > :17:43.unemployed people in Plymouth is different. Working links, which is
:17:43. > :17:49.a company rolling out the Government's work programme here in
:17:49. > :17:55.the south-west, has started a voluntary group, The Friday Club.
:17:55. > :17:59.Today, they are going for a walk in the rain in the city centre. A lot
:18:00. > :18:03.of it is routine, it is about getting them doing something. It is
:18:03. > :18:07.taking them them outside their comfort zone with help from myself
:18:07. > :18:11.to sort of nurture them through a little, just getting them them back
:18:11. > :18:14.into a normal routine. Once you are comfortable, it is easier to get
:18:14. > :18:23.back into work. Martin has been in the group a
:18:23. > :18:26.while. Leanne is 22 and never had a job. This is Teanna and has her
:18:26. > :18:33.first day. Walking in the rain might seem pointless, but this club
:18:33. > :18:36.is getting people into work. Leean and Martin have both got jobs.
:18:36. > :18:40.Having a personal personal trainer helped them to break the mould and
:18:40. > :18:45.have a little bit more confidence in themselves.
:18:45. > :18:53.I'm 22 stone, I'm overweight. I have been told if I don't change my
:18:53. > :18:57.way, I will have died by the time I'm 30. One of my con consultants
:18:57. > :19:00.from Working Links say they do a fit club every Friday. It turned my
:19:00. > :19:05.life around. Having a personal trainer for the
:19:05. > :19:10.unemployed is a waste of money. is getting results. I mean, the
:19:10. > :19:15.work programme which is what we are delivering here in the south-west
:19:15. > :19:20.is payment by results. The majority of the funding comes once we have
:19:20. > :19:24.successfully placed people in long- term work. So it is for us to
:19:24. > :19:31.speculate if you like or to invest money in schemes that might help
:19:31. > :19:35.people move into work. If it doesn't work, then it is at our
:19:35. > :19:41.cost. I came to to Plymouth expecting to
:19:41. > :19:47.fin people forced out of bed and forced into track suits. They are
:19:47. > :19:53.not, that will come as a disappointment to some of you. This
:19:53. > :19:57.shows a few walks in the rain can What do you think about that? Is it
:19:57. > :20:04.going to be the answer to helping young, unemployed people back into
:20:04. > :20:08.work? No, I don't think so. It will make them them feel better. We
:20:08. > :20:10.should be harnessing businesses and providing mentors. We should be
:20:11. > :20:14.providing, maybe the Government should be giving assistance to
:20:14. > :20:19.companies to bring in young people on work experience.
:20:19. > :20:25.Paid work experience? Paid work experience, but maybe paid for by
:20:25. > :20:29.the Government than rather by us. The education system has let down
:20:29. > :20:32.industry and young people. For you, is it the calibre and the
:20:32. > :20:36.quality of students come nothing the workforce? What are they
:20:36. > :20:41.lacking? They lack commitment. They think it is OK to come in and go
:20:41. > :20:45.out at lunch time and not come back. That might teach them commitment,
:20:45. > :20:49.just the sense of training and discipline and all the rest of it?
:20:49. > :20:53.My experience is we do a lot of work experience with young people.
:20:53. > :20:57.One of the things I find is that they are fed-up with school and yet
:20:57. > :21:02.when they come to work, they really enjoy it. I think the more they get
:21:02. > :21:06.the experience of work, and increase increase their parameters,
:21:06. > :21:09.I think that's really the most important thing we could do.
:21:10. > :21:15.Are you hiring? Yes, but not young people, sadly.
:21:15. > :21:21.You are hiring better qualified, older people? Yes.
:21:21. > :21:25.What would per said you you to hire a young person? Putting aside the
:21:25. > :21:28.fact that you think the calibre isn't that great? Because they are
:21:28. > :21:32.not experienced in work, because very little in their education
:21:32. > :21:35.teaches them to be experienced in work, I haven't got time to spend
:21:35. > :21:40.two years training a young person. You mention planning is a problem.
:21:40. > :21:44.Is it because you are unconcern about the economy? Yes, they link
:21:44. > :21:47.together. I would happily welcome young people in to give them work
:21:47. > :21:50.experience and encouragement because it is about confidence. If
:21:50. > :21:54.you have small parameters and no confidence, then work becomes a
:21:55. > :22:00.drag. When you come to work and find you enjoy it and you have a
:22:00. > :22:05.mentor who shows you that you can achieve mountains, that's what we
:22:05. > :22:09.should be doing. Now, if you are an English sixth
:22:09. > :22:14.form student you might be starting to feel nervous, not just about how
:22:14. > :22:18.well you are going to do in your A- levels, but what impact higher
:22:18. > :22:26.university tuition fees will have on you. In a moment we will speak
:22:26. > :22:33.to Martin Lewis, he is heading a taskforce. First David Thompson
:22:33. > :22:37.spoke to sixth-formers this morning. Hello welcome to LadyWell, South-
:22:37. > :22:44.East London. Now, first of all, can I ask you,
:22:44. > :22:48.how many of you are plan to go to to university next year? Good luck.
:22:48. > :22:51.Did the prospect of paying increased fees put any of you hauf
:22:51. > :22:56.or make -- off or make you think about going to a cheaper
:22:56. > :22:59.university? Now, I know I'm going to live at home. I wanted to go off
:23:00. > :23:03.campus, now I'm not going to have enough money to do that and the
:23:03. > :23:07.thought of having debt is scary. Do you think you were given enough
:23:07. > :23:10.information about how the system will work by the Government
:23:11. > :23:13.wasn't until I started going to university open days that I learned
:23:13. > :23:17.about how much feesI need to pay, about the student loan system,
:23:17. > :23:19.about when I need to start paying the money back and how much you pay
:23:19. > :23:25.back with interest. I think that everyone is aware that
:23:25. > :23:29.we're going to have �9,000 tuition fees, however, other things such as
:23:29. > :23:34.living costs and interest rates, people aren't that aware about.
:23:34. > :23:38.How many of you think you know when you have to start paying the money
:23:38. > :23:42.back? I think once we are earning around �21,000 a year or over then
:23:42. > :23:46.we have to start paying back. What do the Government have done to
:23:46. > :23:50.have explained the system system better? Probably something on TV.
:23:51. > :23:56.As teenagers, we watch a lot of TV, so if there was to be more
:23:56. > :24:00.advertisements, maybe posters then we would be more aware overall.
:24:00. > :24:03.Martin Lewis joins us now. Do you think people are concerned
:24:04. > :24:06.about the new fee that is will be introduced next year? People are
:24:06. > :24:11.right to be concerned about the change, but a lot of people have
:24:11. > :24:16.been scared off for the wrong reasons. The language that we use
:24:16. > :24:18.of fees, we talk about it as a debt in many ways and we are talking in
:24:18. > :24:21.England here. It is important to say that.
:24:21. > :24:25.Yes, it is. This is in many ways more like a
:24:25. > :24:28.tax than a debt. You pay it through the payroll. It is proportionate to
:24:29. > :24:34.the amount you earn. You only repay it if you are earning �21,000.
:24:34. > :24:38.There are no debt collectors. It lasts 30 years. And you pay pay 9%
:24:38. > :24:45.of everything you earn earn above �21,000 until you have repaid what
:24:45. > :24:55.you owe plus interest or 30 years and then it stops. If you said to
:24:55. > :24:55.
:24:55. > :24:58.parents your kids if they are successful would you pay it off for
:24:58. > :25:02.them. We have to think about the finances of this rather than the
:25:02. > :25:06.politics of this. You say in that sense, it is mot going to be paid
:25:06. > :25:11.back until you start earning a certain amount of money, but is
:25:11. > :25:16.there a sort of pinch-point, let's say if you are a teacher and let's
:25:16. > :25:19.say you are earning between �22,000 and �30,000, you are paying a large
:25:19. > :25:27.large percentage of your income and you are paying it for years and
:25:27. > :25:33.years? People pay 9% of everything above �15,000. Starters in 2012
:25:33. > :25:36.repay �540 a year less than current graduates. The the impact on your
:25:36. > :25:39.pocket is improvement in the new system, but because you are
:25:39. > :25:42.borrowing more, because you are repaying less and because the
:25:42. > :25:46.interest is higher, you are likely to be repaying longerment many
:25:46. > :25:51.people will not repay in full over the full 30 years which means they
:25:51. > :25:59.are going to think it is, I go back to my starting point, it is like a
:25:59. > :26:02.tax you repay on top of the other taxes for most of your working life.
:26:02. > :26:05."If Most of the loans will never repaid and the liability on the
:26:05. > :26:14.public purse will be billions and billions.". It is not most will
:26:14. > :26:18.never be repaid, it is many will never be repaid.
:26:18. > :26:22.The Government gives universities �6,000 and it gives the student
:26:22. > :26:26.�3,000 to pay the university which it gets money back. In the new
:26:26. > :26:30.system, it loans the student the whole amount. If they get a smaller
:26:30. > :26:33.proportion of the loans back, because it is all a loan, it still
:26:33. > :26:39.gets more back than it does. I'm not saying I'm in favour of the
:26:39. > :26:44.system, but it is misexplained and the political Spittle in the House
:26:44. > :26:49.of Commons over this demonised a system that is going to do more
:26:49. > :26:55.damage than the new fees. When you talk to kids from non-traditional
:26:55. > :27:00.university backgrounds. The middle- class kids will go, but the bright
:27:00. > :27:03.kids are the ones much debt averse because of the language we use.
:27:03. > :27:08.Do you think the Government explained it well either?
:27:08. > :27:14.that's why I got involved in this independent taskforce. We have only
:27:14. > :27:21.only been going a few months and we get paid peanuts, but we get to
:27:21. > :27:25.come on television talk about it. The mistake was made in 1998 when
:27:25. > :27:30.we introduced loans which you pay through the tax system. In
:27:30. > :27:35.Australia they call this a graduate contribution. Here, we call it a
:27:35. > :27:39.debt and the language and the fact that everyone is too scared because
:27:39. > :27:44.it would be called spin if we changed it, but it is not a loan.
:27:44. > :27:49.It doesn't go on your credit file. You as a business person will
:27:49. > :27:53.understand what Martin says? Martin is right. Maybe it is too late to
:27:53. > :27:55.go back, but some more explanation and if anybody can do it, Martin
:27:55. > :27:59.can. We have to make everybody
:27:59. > :28:01.understand it and once they understand it maybe it is time to
:28:01. > :28:07.change the language. Thank you very much. There is just
:28:07. > :28:17.time to fin out the answer to our quiz.
:28:17. > :28:20.
:28:20. > :28:25.The question was which which former European Prime Minister did
:28:25. > :28:33.Conservative MP Patrick Mercer reportedly compared David Cameron