:00:24. > :00:26.Afternoon, folks - welcome to The Daily Politics. Stock markets have
:00:26. > :00:36.fallen across Europe following a warning that the creditworthiness
:00:36. > :00:36.
:00:36. > :00:39.of almost the entire eurozone could be downgraded. The announcement by
:00:39. > :00:49.the agency Standard & Poor's suggests there's a possibility that
:00:49. > :00:50.
:00:51. > :00:54.France and Germany could lose their Triple A status within three months.
:00:54. > :00:57.British exports are already falling due to the crisis in Europe. MPs
:00:57. > :01:01.debate the economy here this afternoon. We'll be talking to the
:01:01. > :01:04.Deputy Chair of the Conservative Party. Could we see another crisis
:01:04. > :01:10.in Britain's care homes similar to the collapse of Southern Cross? MPs
:01:10. > :01:19.warn it might happen all over again. And we'll be looking at what the
:01:19. > :01:23.political parties have to do to And with us for the whole programme
:01:23. > :01:33.today is the businessman Dr Chai Patel, who now runs over 200 former
:01:33. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:39.Southern Cross care homes. Nice to be here. Which brings us neatly to
:01:39. > :01:42.our first story, because a group of MPs say more action is needed to
:01:42. > :01:46.prevent another care homes crisis similar to the collapse of Southern
:01:46. > :01:48.Cross. The Public Accounts Committee say some providers in
:01:48. > :01:57.England are amassing huge debts, and they've called for better
:01:58. > :02:03.monitoring of the care system. This morning, the Health Committee was
:02:03. > :02:06.also discussing long-term care. They heard from Andrew Dilnot, who
:02:06. > :02:16.chaired a commission into how to best fund the system, and he was
:02:16. > :02:20.
:02:20. > :02:23.less than complimentary about the current situation. My view is that
:02:23. > :02:28.everybody in the social care system is inappropriately served at the
:02:28. > :02:31.moment. That means all of us. The risk of needing care in your Olda
:02:31. > :02:35.age is greater than the risk of falling pregnant. That's because
:02:35. > :02:39.half of us are not going to fall pregnant, but three-quarters of us
:02:39. > :02:43.will need care in our old age. And at the moment, the system does not
:02:43. > :02:46.work for any of us, effectively. It does not work for people looking
:02:46. > :02:51.forward to the possibility of needing care, it does not work for
:02:51. > :02:54.people at the point of needing care - the system is bust. Well we're
:02:54. > :03:03.joined now by the chair of the Public Accounts Committee, Margaret
:03:03. > :03:12.Hodge. How bad is it? We looked just at care homes, not at the rest
:03:12. > :03:15.of the system. I think it is a very worrying situation. If you look at
:03:15. > :03:21.Southern Cross, and why it collapsed, I think there are two
:03:21. > :03:23.main reasons. Firstly, it depended on high local authority rates - two
:03:23. > :03:33.thirds of the people going into care homes are funded through local
:03:33. > :03:34.
:03:34. > :03:40.authorities. That's nationally. all their fees are paid by the
:03:40. > :03:43.local authority. Which makes local authorities are vital in this
:03:43. > :03:49.respect. Quite. And local authorities have had their funding
:03:49. > :03:52.cut, so the care homes get less income. At the same time, the care
:03:52. > :03:56.homes are funded through a lot of borrowing, and interest rates have
:03:56. > :04:00.gone up. They were funded when interest rates were low. So we have
:04:00. > :04:10.got a pretty unsustainable model. Not just Southern Cross, but one of
:04:10. > :04:11.
:04:11. > :04:19.the other big four providers, four Seasons, we understand, has got
:04:19. > :04:22.into trouble. And let me make another point, because of the local
:04:22. > :04:26.authorities cannot put people into the care homes because the prices
:04:27. > :04:31.are too high, what then happens is that people stay in hospital, they
:04:31. > :04:38.block beds in hospitals, and that's another cost to the public purse.
:04:38. > :04:44.For the individuals, it is a terrible thing. Is it as serious as
:04:45. > :04:48.the politicians are making out? is serious, yes. There are
:04:48. > :04:52.different components. The funding contraction is serious and it is
:04:52. > :04:55.only going to get worse over the next two or three years, as the
:04:55. > :05:01.local authorities were now to have more money. Absolutely, and the
:05:01. > :05:06.austerity measures have hardly even kicked in yet, I think. This is a
:05:06. > :05:10.property backed investment, and as you know, properties have debt.
:05:10. > :05:20.Whether the debt is too high or too low is hard to tell at the moment,
:05:20. > :05:25.because this was done before 2005, 2007. And to have four years of
:05:25. > :05:28.real reduction in fee rates, I do not mean just inflation, real
:05:28. > :05:32.production, has meant that the funding has rarely contracted. At
:05:32. > :05:39.the same time, a policy of keeping people at home, which has a good
:05:39. > :05:44.policy, has taken another 7% of demand away from care homes.
:05:44. > :05:46.did you buy these Southern Cross homes? I did not. My job was to
:05:46. > :05:50.help out in terms of the restructuring of Southern Cross,
:05:50. > :05:59.and we have got a management contract to run one third of the
:05:59. > :06:04.homes. Huo owns them? They are owned by a property company. So, we
:06:04. > :06:08.brought the two together. Part of the problem at Southern Cross, and
:06:08. > :06:12.why I don't think Southern Cross will happen again, is that firstly,
:06:12. > :06:21.it was twice as large as the nearest competitor, it was so big
:06:21. > :06:24.that nobody else could have taken it. And secondly, it was entirely a
:06:25. > :06:27.landlord and tenant based company. It was a very complex structure.
:06:27. > :06:35.You could not put it into administration, which is what would
:06:35. > :06:45.normally happen, to get an orderly transfer, which is why it took so
:06:45. > :06:50.long. None of the other companies, including four Seasons, are much
:06:50. > :06:55.easier to manage. I wonder if size matters that much in these
:06:55. > :06:59.circumstances. What should the Government do? I agree that size
:06:59. > :07:03.did not matter, care homes are going broke every week. The first
:07:03. > :07:09.thing is that the Government has got to act. They are doing a lot of
:07:09. > :07:12.thinking, producing papers. They're aware of the problem? They are
:07:12. > :07:18.definitely aware of the problem. I think they are trying to run away
:07:18. > :07:21.from the problem, trying to make everybody else accountable - local
:07:21. > :07:25.authorities, the Care Quality Commission, but I think think this
:07:25. > :07:29.is a problem for government. I think this should be taken out of
:07:29. > :07:33.party politics, this issue is hugely important and will grow in
:07:33. > :07:38.importance, we have got an ageing population. You and I might end up
:07:38. > :07:43.having to go into a care home. We have got to sort out the funding.
:07:43. > :07:46.Andrew Dilnot said the system is bust. What should be done? I think
:07:46. > :07:50.it is going to be the old mixture - for those who can afford it, they
:07:51. > :07:54.will have to contribute more to their care when they are elderly,
:07:54. > :08:00.but the worst thing is if we do nothing, it will be the poorest who
:08:00. > :08:04.cannot afford to pay for their own care, and they will suffer the most.
:08:04. > :08:09.If we want us all to be in it together, we have got to find a
:08:09. > :08:13.solution which prioritise his, in a constrained and there but, spending
:08:13. > :08:18.for poor people, but also gets the balance between public and private
:08:18. > :08:23.contributions. What do you think should be done? I totally agree on
:08:23. > :08:27.the first point, the process, this is a multi-party issue, this is not
:08:27. > :08:31.party political, we need consensus. The second part is funding. This is
:08:31. > :08:36.a chronic issue, right across the world, in fact. We need planning
:08:36. > :08:39.for the short, medium and long term. The Dilnot report starts to tell
:08:39. > :08:44.you what to do for the next five or 10 years, and we need a long-term
:08:44. > :08:47.policy, so the next generation can start either saving or buying
:08:47. > :08:52.insurance products, or knowing that there will be joint funding. But
:08:52. > :08:56.there is no transparency right now. We have got this situation which
:08:57. > :09:01.has almost guaranteed -- which is almost guaranteed, each one of us
:09:01. > :09:06.is going to get old. Is there not a strong chance that some will have
:09:06. > :09:09.to be taken back into state ownership? Well, I think if we're
:09:09. > :09:13.going to leave it in the market, it has to be a much more tightly
:09:13. > :09:17.managed market. This is not an issue where you can allow market
:09:17. > :09:22.failure. Southern Cross, 31,000 people, suddenly thinking, where
:09:22. > :09:26.are we going to be tomorrow? I think this is too important to
:09:26. > :09:33.leave it to the vagaries of the market. The market did not fail.
:09:33. > :09:43.will wait and see. This subject will not go away, we will come back
:09:43. > :09:43.
:09:43. > :09:47.to it. To something different, time for the daily quiz. The question
:09:47. > :09:50.for the daily quiz. The question for today is... What programme
:09:50. > :09:54.would David Cameron like to bring back for Christmas Day? Is it a)
:09:54. > :10:04.Dad's Army? B) The two Ronnies? C) Spooks? Or d) To The Manor Born? At
:10:04. > :10:05.
:10:05. > :10:09.the end of the show we hope Chai will give us the correct answer.
:10:09. > :10:19.it was me, I would like to see Spooks comeback. That does not mean
:10:19. > :10:23.
:10:23. > :10:27.it is the right answer. Standard and Poor's has booked almost all
:10:27. > :10:30.eurozone countries on a warning regarding their credit rating.
:10:30. > :10:35.Louise Cooper, who's a markets analyst for BCG Partners, is here
:10:35. > :10:39.analyst for BCG Partners, is here in Westminster. Is this a knockout
:10:39. > :10:42.blow from Standard and Poor's? the point of view of the markets,
:10:42. > :10:46.Standard and Poor's are not telling us anything we did not know already.
:10:46. > :10:50.If you look at the reaction from the financial markets today,
:10:50. > :10:57.equities are down a little bit, European government bonds are
:10:57. > :11:01.little changed, and the insurance market for sovereign debt is also
:11:01. > :11:05.little changed. So, to be fair, Standard and Poor's are playing
:11:05. > :11:09.catch-up. A lot of the concerns they talk about, five particular
:11:09. > :11:14.concerns, frankly, a lot of investors have been worried about
:11:14. > :11:18.for at least a month. Is it likely to happen, with France and Germany?
:11:18. > :11:23.Many market players have been saying that the AAA rating of
:11:23. > :11:27.France is going to go. That is not new news. The new news was Germany,
:11:27. > :11:31.that was a bit of a surprise. If you look at Standard and Poor's,
:11:31. > :11:37.when they put countries on credit watch, there is about a 50 got a
:11:37. > :11:42.chance that they will beef -- they will be downgraded in the future.
:11:42. > :11:45.But if you look at the five reasons - tightening credit, eurozone
:11:45. > :11:55.countries finding it more expensive to borrow money, disagreements with
:11:55. > :11:56.
:11:56. > :12:04.policy makers, massive levels of eurozone debt and a recession in
:12:04. > :12:09.are unlikely to change. I look at them and think, nothing I see will
:12:09. > :12:13.indicate any of that is being changed. So, it is a realistic
:12:13. > :12:16.response. What about our rating? That appears to be saved at the
:12:16. > :12:20.moment - are we considered a safe haven? It is all dependent on
:12:20. > :12:25.growth for the future. We have definitely seen investors fleeing
:12:25. > :12:29.the eurozone, not wanting to own euro sovereign debt. They have
:12:29. > :12:35.piling into UK sovereign debt gilts, Swedish debt, Danish debt, because,
:12:35. > :12:40.frankly, we are not in the eurozone. However, our debt figures do not
:12:40. > :12:43.look pretty, and are unsustainable if we have a recession. And so, we
:12:43. > :12:48.are a safe haven for the moment, the Bank of England is buying gilts,
:12:48. > :12:52.which brings down our borrowing costs, yes, we are not in the euro,
:12:52. > :12:54.but do not be complacent about the future for the UK. I'm joined now
:12:54. > :13:01.by George Eustice, who is a member of the all-party parliamentary
:13:01. > :13:06.Fresh Start Group, which is looking at our relationship with Europe.
:13:06. > :13:10.Welcome to the programme. Looking at this deal which has been put
:13:10. > :13:16.forward to deal with the debt crisis, would you like to see a new
:13:16. > :13:20.European Treaty of all 27 countries, or just the 17 and euros countries?
:13:20. > :13:24.I think to be credible, it needs to be an agreement at the level of the
:13:24. > :13:26.27. I think Germany would want that as well. They want to use the
:13:26. > :13:30.machinery of the European institutions to enforce these new
:13:30. > :13:33.rules. If it was just another level of the 17, they would not be able
:13:33. > :13:36.to get the European Court of Justice engaged, to hand out
:13:36. > :13:39.sanctions, and if they do not have that, then they have got something
:13:39. > :13:42.which is no better than what they have got already, with the
:13:42. > :13:46.stability and growth package. also it is probably the only
:13:46. > :13:50.realistic chance for the British Government to try and renegotiate
:13:50. > :13:59.Pact powers from Brussels, if there is a treaty of all 27 countries.
:13:59. > :14:04.That's right. That would give credibility, but it would also give
:14:04. > :14:08.us an opportunity to repatriate certain powers and protect are own
:14:08. > :14:13.interests, particularly in the City. But why on earth would France and
:14:13. > :14:17.Germany, for example, be interested in any concessions to Britain? They
:14:18. > :14:23.have said as much, Sarkozy has said, we will do this with or without
:14:23. > :14:28.Britain. Why on earth do you think we would get concessions? They
:14:28. > :14:31.might say that now, but they are grown-ups as well. Once you get
:14:31. > :14:35.around a table and have a discussion, it is absolutely
:14:35. > :14:39.legitimate for Britain to raise this. There are some 50 EU
:14:39. > :14:42.directives coming down the track which affect the City. London
:14:42. > :14:46.dominates financial services in Europe. We have got to make sure we
:14:46. > :14:50.have some kind of veto on the emergency brake procedure, and we
:14:50. > :14:56.say we should have that in respect of these 50 new regulations coming
:14:56. > :14:58.Well, as George Eustice and the Fresh Start group debate our future
:14:58. > :15:06.within Europe, the impact of the eurozone crisis is already being
:15:07. > :15:10.felt in the UK today. Jo, bring us Yes, as faith in the euro continues
:15:10. > :15:20.to melt, just how much heat are we already feeling from the eurozone
:15:20. > :15:22.
:15:22. > :15:24.In a series of gloomy announcements, the Chancellor delivered the news
:15:24. > :15:32.that predictions for growth within the UK economy have been downgraded
:15:32. > :15:36.from 2.5% to just 0.7% for 2012. Much of this was blamed on
:15:36. > :15:40.uncertainty in the eurozone. Weak economies in Europe have also hit
:15:40. > :15:45.UK exports, with a reduction of 1.4% in the number of exports to EU
:15:45. > :15:47.countries, our biggest market, in the three months to September. The
:15:47. > :15:55.Chancellor has also claimed instability within Europe is a
:15:55. > :15:58.reason behind rising unemployment in the UK. Last month he said,
:15:58. > :16:02."There's no doubt that jobs in Britain have been hit by what's
:16:02. > :16:05.going on in the eurozone." Many eurozone countries have seen big
:16:05. > :16:08.fluctuations in their cost of borrowing. However, bond yields for
:16:08. > :16:12.the UK have remained relatively stable so far, but with large
:16:12. > :16:15.public debts we are certainly not guaranteed safety in this area.
:16:15. > :16:21.With the crisis deepening and the UK economy on a knife edge, can we
:16:21. > :16:23.avoid heading back into another I'm joined now by Michael Fallon,
:16:24. > :16:33.Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, and Chris Leslie, who's
:16:33. > :16:36.Labour's Shadow Treasury Minister. Welcome to you both. Michael Fallon,
:16:36. > :16:42.the Eurozone is clearly going to form a much tighter block now, it
:16:42. > :16:45.is going to move towards its own tax-and-spend and budget policies.
:16:45. > :16:50.Huge change to the European Union. Time to live up to your promise of
:16:50. > :16:53.your party and repatriate some powers? We have always wanted to
:16:53. > :16:56.repatriate some powers, things could be done better at the
:16:56. > :17:01.national level than the European level but the priority at the
:17:01. > :17:05.moment is to make sure the Eurozone sorts out its problems. We have a
:17:05. > :17:09.huge domestic British interest in making sure the Eurozone does not
:17:09. > :17:12.go on in this crisis and they solve their problems. That is the first
:17:12. > :17:16.thing we want to see come out of this week and the meetings taking
:17:16. > :17:21.place. We are just cheerleaders, we are not part of that, because we
:17:21. > :17:26.are not in the euro-zone. So we can support what they are doing it, but
:17:26. > :17:31.we are going to support it in the knowledge that it is a systemic
:17:31. > :17:36.change in the nature of the European Union. So it isn't that
:17:36. > :17:40.time for you to live up to your promise? We have had promises of
:17:40. > :17:44.systemic change before, we will see whether that transpires. We have
:17:44. > :17:49.had various agreements from other countries to operate in different
:17:49. > :17:54.ways and so on, but let's be clear about this, if the Eurozone
:17:54. > :17:59.countries want to form a smaller grouping, they must use the
:17:59. > :18:03.European institutions to use that - - do that. We heard George Eustice
:18:03. > :18:08.agree with that, they must use European law and the European Court.
:18:08. > :18:14.Do you want the Eurozone to be a tighter, closer group? As a
:18:14. > :18:19.currency, we wanted to work, it is in our interests that it does not
:18:19. > :18:23.collapse and it polices itself. know all that, but Mr Sark cosy and
:18:23. > :18:28.Angela Merkel say the way to do that is to do what they agreed in
:18:28. > :18:31.Paris -- Nicolas Sarkozy. They want the rest of Europe to take that on
:18:31. > :18:36.have the Government, it seems, support that approach. If we are
:18:36. > :18:41.supporting a more coherent Eurozone, what is the response, the
:18:41. > :18:47.consequence for Britain? What they have said it is they now say they
:18:47. > :18:54.want to abide by the rules, they want to set themselves tough rules.
:18:54. > :18:56.What do you say? I know what they say, I read the newspapers. You
:18:56. > :19:01.just said you want them to do it, of what is the consequence for
:19:01. > :19:05.Britain? The consequence if they get on and do it is that our
:19:05. > :19:09.national interest is protected as well, I'll economy is protected and
:19:09. > :19:13.the Eurozone problems won't come over the Channel -- our economy. We
:19:13. > :19:18.want the currency to succeed, we don't want it to fall apart. Let's
:19:18. > :19:23.see if I can do better with Labour. If they proceed to have a tighter,
:19:23. > :19:26.deeply Eurozone, what would the Labour policy response be? It I
:19:26. > :19:30.think it depends when we see the details of this treaty whether it
:19:30. > :19:34.is going to be pro-growth, of whether it is going to solve
:19:34. > :19:38.economic problems or if we are just going to be kicking into the long
:19:38. > :19:44.grass a whole set of constitutional changes that may not come to pass
:19:44. > :19:47.for 5, 6, 7 years. We need to see the details of this. We need
:19:47. > :19:52.negotiations that are focused on a growing economies and not austerity.
:19:52. > :19:57.You are dodging the question as well. I am not. The don't need to
:19:57. > :20:02.see the detail to understand that if the Eurozone becomes essentially
:20:02. > :20:06.a fiscal union, with constant, combined, common tax-and-spend and
:20:06. > :20:12.budget policies, and forced from the centre, which is what the
:20:12. > :20:16.Germans want, I ask again, what are the consequences for Britain in its
:20:16. > :20:20.relationship to this new Eurozone? They could be very significant,
:20:20. > :20:26.possibly detrimental. We literally to have to see where this is going.
:20:26. > :20:30.I suspect that just as the market go up-and-down week by week, the
:20:30. > :20:34.changes that we see in the politics are also far from certain. We have
:20:34. > :20:38.heard about the Standard & Poor's downgrading this week, it makes it
:20:38. > :20:41.look as though we are all very much focused on the European Central
:20:41. > :20:45.Bank's role as lender, rather than the possibility of a big bail out,
:20:45. > :20:50.which is what we really should have been pushing the Eurozone countries
:20:50. > :20:57.to do. It is really important and I am really exasperated by the fact
:20:57. > :21:01.that government is not focusing not less. -- on this. The Germans and
:21:01. > :21:05.the French and our own government are not focusing it on growth. If
:21:05. > :21:09.we have a coalition, it should be to earn some revenues, to deal with
:21:09. > :21:13.the debt crisis. Why we are not doing that... They say they are
:21:13. > :21:18.going to meet every month to focus on growth policy, so that is not
:21:18. > :21:22.quite true. It is part of the deal. I want to come back to you, you are
:21:22. > :21:27.the governing party and your party told us that if the Europeans
:21:27. > :21:31.wanted to make major changes, and I can't imagine a bigger change than
:21:31. > :21:34.what is being proposed that the Eurozone, then you would use that
:21:34. > :21:39.opportunity to repatriate powers. And yet that is a word you won't
:21:39. > :21:43.even use this morning. They are not proposing to take any power away
:21:43. > :21:49.from us, they are proposing to work much closer together, to have the
:21:49. > :21:53.fiscal union to poll taxes and spending Bath pull taxes and
:21:53. > :21:59.spending and have, and enforcement. That is not an opportunity, in your
:21:59. > :22:04.view, unlike your colleagues, to renegotiate our relationship.
:22:04. > :22:09.it is our opportunity to protect British interests. To make it clear
:22:09. > :22:14.to the 17 that they can't legislate for the 27. They shouldn't. You see
:22:14. > :22:19.what I have to put up with? It is tough, I can see that. What would
:22:19. > :22:23.you like to say? We have to remain relevant and to do that, we have to
:22:23. > :22:28.sit in the centre of vessels you can't if you are not to the euro-
:22:28. > :22:33.zone. The -- we have to sit in the centre of this. This is a good time
:22:33. > :22:37.to be baking lot of friends. People say we cannot be end of the
:22:37. > :22:40.sidelines but as the country, both of these parties have been decided
:22:40. > :22:47.-- both of these parties have decided we should be in the
:22:47. > :22:53.sidelines because they are against joining the euro. Thank goodness.
:22:53. > :22:58.They stop us going in. We have got a serious risk. This idea that we
:22:58. > :23:02.are a safe haven is nonsense. things be to think about, the Tax
:23:02. > :23:07.Payers Alliance have written out, for repatriating. 20 items.
:23:07. > :23:10.Don't say we aren't here to help. The British curry industry employs
:23:10. > :23:13.around 100,000 people and is worth �3 billion a year to the economy.
:23:13. > :23:15.But does that make it an appetizing prospect for politicians searching
:23:15. > :23:22.for votes among the Asian community? Adam's been
:23:22. > :23:27.investigating. The British Curry Awards, held in
:23:27. > :23:32.London last week, and lapping up the chicken tikka, a host of
:23:32. > :23:37.politicians, most of them Tories. With my colleague Eric Pickles, I
:23:37. > :23:40.have been discussing how we can get a curry College up and running.
:23:40. > :23:44.There are more curry cost -- restaurants in London that in
:23:44. > :23:54.Mumbai and Delhi combined. And they won't just popping in for Paul the
:23:54. > :23:54.
:23:54. > :23:58.Dons, according to the founder of the event. The da poppadoms. Some
:23:58. > :24:04.of the family is here are working at the different sectors, there is
:24:04. > :24:08.if you devote. In Epsom, Enam Ali has seen a big change in the
:24:08. > :24:17.community's political tastes. my generation and my father's
:24:17. > :24:20.generation, maybe somebody wasn't their cup of tea. Maybe by birth,
:24:20. > :24:25.you can say they are Labour supporters. These things have
:24:25. > :24:29.changed. I have seen for the last five years, a huge change. But back
:24:29. > :24:36.at Westminster, this prominent Labour Peer says that targeting the
:24:36. > :24:39.Asian vote is difficult. It doesn't actually exist. You say Asian,
:24:39. > :24:44.because of we can't say Indian, because there are a lot of
:24:44. > :24:52.Pakistani as well, but already Asian is a fudged the word. We
:24:52. > :24:57.don't want to talk about religion too much. But you have a very
:24:57. > :25:04.different Asian voters although the Countryfile stock and he is right,
:25:04. > :25:08.according to the latest research. - - all over the country. Figures
:25:08. > :25:12.have bad that Asian communities are overwhelmingly Labour voters, but
:25:12. > :25:15.the Indians are more likely to vote for Conservatives than those with a
:25:16. > :25:19.Pakistani background. All of this is a complicated mixture of many
:25:19. > :25:22.different ingredients. You might say just like an award winning a
:25:22. > :25:25.curry. It is all in the writing.
:25:25. > :25:30.I'm joined by the entrepreneur and crossbench peer Lord Bilimoria, and
:25:30. > :25:35.Dr Chai Patel is still with us. Lord Bilimoria, is there such thing
:25:35. > :25:39.as an Asian vote in a homogenous sense? The agent BT makes up 4% of
:25:39. > :25:42.the committee in this country -- Asian population. What I have
:25:42. > :25:45.discovered is there is a meritocracy and the Asians have
:25:45. > :25:50.blasted through the glass ceiling, reaching the very top in every
:25:50. > :25:54.field you can imagine and that 4% contributes double at proportion to
:25:54. > :25:59.the economy of this country. In Parliament, look at the House of
:25:59. > :26:04.Lords, we have 24 Asian members, the House of Commons there are 17,
:26:04. > :26:08.11 Labour, six Conservative, so the Asians are really coming to the
:26:08. > :26:13.fore. We have a Cabinet minister who is Asian, the deputy leader of
:26:13. > :26:18.the Liberal Democrats. But are they adequately represented? If you look
:26:18. > :26:22.at the proportion of the population, around 3% in both Houses, much
:26:22. > :26:27.better than when we were. When you did a split in terms of party
:26:27. > :26:32.allegiance, all right, more Labour, but do you think that that has also
:26:32. > :26:37.changed? Predominantly, the Asian vote would have voted Labour 20 or
:26:37. > :26:42.30 years ago, but has it changed? That has changed as well. Labour
:26:42. > :26:45.are the more Popular Party but the question is, well and Asian become
:26:45. > :26:49.Prime Minister and I have always said there will be at an Asian
:26:49. > :26:54.prime minister in my lifetime, but only one in five think that will
:26:54. > :26:59.happen. The So You are an individual isolated on that point.
:26:59. > :27:02.Dr Chai Patel, the subject of immigration, particularly none EU
:27:02. > :27:07.immigrants in business terms and the Government wanting to set curbs,
:27:07. > :27:12.because they can, has that made it difficult for people on the Indian
:27:12. > :27:14.sub-continent? Is it detrimental? don't think it has made it
:27:14. > :27:18.difficult for the Indian sub- continent, but it has made it
:27:18. > :27:22.difficult generally in business. That mobility has made the EU work,
:27:22. > :27:27.and I think it is a pity we have gone that way but if I can comment
:27:27. > :27:31.on the Asian vote, I think it is just that lazy and clumsy to talk
:27:31. > :27:35.about the Asian voters as it was about that was the woman and the
:27:35. > :27:38.Basildon man. What you need to look at is the several generations. Some
:27:38. > :27:44.of my old uncles behave more like Indians and my nephews, who were
:27:44. > :27:49.born here, they operate like regular breaks. So is it pointless
:27:49. > :27:51.for political parties trying to tailor votes to the Asian vote?
:27:51. > :27:55.the question of immigration, I think the Government has made a
:27:55. > :28:01.serious mistake with the immigration Kapo. The number of
:28:01. > :28:05.Indian students applying to British universities is plummeting.
:28:05. > :28:08.Academics at Oxford and Cambridge, 30% are foreign and these
:28:08. > :28:12.immigration policies are affecting them. Add the curry industry
:28:12. > :28:15.desperately need chefs and we should set up schools, but in the
:28:15. > :28:19.meantime, we need to have flexibility and the Government is
:28:19. > :28:24.being too blunt about this. terms of other Asian Friendly
:28:24. > :28:28.Policies, Dr Chai Patel, what about plans to restrict the number of
:28:28. > :28:32.dependents brought into the country. Would that have a negative impact
:28:32. > :28:35.on the Asian vote? Definitely, given the relevance of family and
:28:35. > :28:39.the way family works, that is something that would be viewed as
:28:39. > :28:43.usually negative. Thank you. Just time before we go
:28:43. > :28:48.to find that the answer to the quiz. The question was what programme
:28:48. > :28:58.would David Cameron like to bring back for Christmas Day? Chai Patel,
:28:58. > :28:59.
:28:59. > :29:03.any idea? Spooks. He did. Well done. And anyway, thanks to all of our