:00:46. > :00:50.Welcome to Daily Politics. A after the tragic loss of six
:00:50. > :00:55.British soldiers in Afghanistan on Tuesday the head of the armed
:00:55. > :00:59.forces claims Britain will still hold its nerve in the country. No
:00:59. > :01:03.comfort to the bereaved, many of whom are now calling this a
:01:03. > :01:06.pointless war. We will be talking to defence secretary, Philip
:01:06. > :01:10.Hammond. Why does the German economy run
:01:10. > :01:13.like a well-oiled machine? We've gone to Dortmund to find out if the
:01:13. > :01:16.country really does do business better.
:01:16. > :01:22.Do you know your Moody's from your Standard and Poor's? We'll be
:01:22. > :01:29.delving into the mystical world of the credit rating agencies.
:01:29. > :01:34.Quentin Letts will be bringing us a bit of parliamentary etiquette.
:01:34. > :01:44.Criminal, dog, not allowed to do those. Impertinent puppy. All these
:01:44. > :01:48.
:01:48. > :01:58.But not necessarily for be done on polliwog -- Daily Politics. Joining
:01:58. > :02:00.
:02:00. > :02:09.We hope you are also able to watch this programme, we are told there
:02:09. > :02:16.is a solar storm about to hit Earth. I am not sure whether I meant to be
:02:16. > :02:21.alarmed or not. If it does he does directly telecommunications and the
:02:22. > :02:27.National Grid could be disrupted, we can fall off there, but we do
:02:27. > :02:33.that about once a month anyway. Last time that happened it was
:02:33. > :02:43.somebody he put their cattle in and it blew the lines. -- somebody
:02:43. > :02:44.
:02:44. > :02:48.plugs are their cattle in. -- kettle. Let's turn our attention to
:02:48. > :02:52.women, especially on International Women's Day Today which Parliament
:02:52. > :02:55.will be debating this afternoon. We have a very successful
:02:55. > :02:59.businesswoman on the programme. Does International Women's Day
:02:59. > :03:04.matter? Absolutely. It is quite an unusual
:03:04. > :03:08.one for me because I'd spend my life saying ignore your agenda, be
:03:08. > :03:13.good at what you do, but I live in a society where it expect to be
:03:13. > :03:23.safe, educated, have opportunity, there is a whole world out there
:03:23. > :03:24.
:03:24. > :03:29.that doesn't have those same ideas. How would you categorise woman's
:03:29. > :03:35.progress through the professions? I think it has changed quite a lot.
:03:35. > :03:40.My career probably spans about 30 years and I have seen a big change,
:03:40. > :03:45.more choice for women. By and large, not always, there has been more
:03:45. > :03:50.choice, and a do so you a lot of very successful women. I still
:03:50. > :03:55.don't think there are enough. -- I do see a lot of very successful
:03:55. > :04:00.woman. I happen to be on television to a lot of people know about me
:04:00. > :04:05.but I go about my everyday life meeting extremely smart, successful
:04:05. > :04:11.women not on television he people don't know about. I also spend my
:04:11. > :04:18.time giving lectures and speeches to the boards of public companies.
:04:18. > :04:22.That is a point. A lot of trade and business organisations. They are
:04:23. > :04:29.overwhelmingly male-dominated. I would absolutely agree and I
:04:29. > :04:33.think that is a loss for the country. We should see a more
:04:33. > :04:43.balanced boardroom. I have just come back from a wonder. Over half
:04:43. > :04:47.
:04:47. > :04:54.of their MPs are women. Compared to 22% in Britain. Should governments
:04:54. > :04:59.do more, should there be quotas? Should there be affirmative action,
:04:59. > :05:05.up or I'll be going to leave it to grow naturally? -- or are we going
:05:05. > :05:12.to. I always worry about quotas. People feel they are forced into do
:05:12. > :05:16.some thing. They don't like it. It can have the opposite effect. I am
:05:16. > :05:20.not keen on quotas, but clearly it is taking too long at the moment.
:05:20. > :05:27.The government needs to provide a structure which encourages people
:05:27. > :05:31.to bring women into the boardroom. Time for our daily quiz. Which men
:05:31. > :05:38.and women are free to enter. Which city has the most
:05:38. > :05:43.billionaire's according to the sea is a Forbes rich list? London, New
:05:43. > :05:53.York, Moscow, Ora bat in Morocco. At the end of the show Deborah will
:05:53. > :05:54.
:05:54. > :06:02.give us the correct answer. -- Rabat. Do you know where you are?
:06:02. > :06:10.work very hard to stay off it. I have no opinion on that title. Op
:06:10. > :06:13.worked very hard on staying off the rich list. You have failed at that.
:06:13. > :06:18.At influential parliamentary committee has warned the government
:06:18. > :06:27.hasn't made sufficient plans to deal with the consequences of the
:06:27. > :06:30.possible break-up of the euro. The Suffolk's Health Scrutiny
:06:30. > :06:34.Committee -- the Joint Committee on the National Security Secretary was
:06:34. > :06:38.set up to keep an eye on the National Security Council. Is this
:06:38. > :06:43.the government has no clear or overarching strategy to guide
:06:43. > :06:47.decision-making. He says the government has failed to focus on a
:06:47. > :06:56.range of looming threats including the possible break-up of the euro-
:06:56. > :07:01.zone. Scottish independence. A diversion of UK and US interests.
:07:01. > :07:07.It also criticises the Government's approach to Afghanistan. The
:07:07. > :07:12.current national security risk assessment doesn't even include
:07:12. > :07:17.Afghanistan because it says it is an ongoing conflict. His is this
:07:17. > :07:21.should change. Furthermore, David Miliband warned this morning there
:07:21. > :07:26.was no political strategy in Afghanistan to secure the peace
:07:26. > :07:30.after British troops withdraw. That criticism follows the death of
:07:30. > :07:35.six soldiers who were killed in Afghanistan on Tuesday which have
:07:35. > :07:43.been named this morning. With this now is the defence secretary,
:07:43. > :07:46.Philip Hammond. What you say to those relatives who lost their
:07:46. > :07:51.loved ones on Tuesday that they have lost their lives for a
:07:52. > :07:57.pointless war? Festival, I extend by heartfelt
:07:57. > :08:02.condolences to the relatives of the six men who died -- first of all. I
:08:02. > :08:08.would absolutely reject the idea this is a pointless war. Batty's an
:08:08. > :08:17.incorrect assessment. We went into Afghanistan -- we went -- that is
:08:17. > :08:21.an incorrect assessment. We have a clear exit date in 2014 for the end
:08:21. > :08:25.of our combat operations. The guys out there know they are doing an
:08:25. > :08:28.important job and know what they have got left to do in the two and
:08:28. > :08:33.a half years to our exit and they are all focused on making sure we
:08:33. > :08:37.go out for with our job properly done, head held high so we can be
:08:37. > :08:40.sure Afghanistan will not become a safe haven for international
:08:40. > :08:46.terrorism. You say the job is being done and
:08:46. > :08:51.it will be a job well done, yet a recent report by NATO says the
:08:51. > :08:56.Taliban are getting stronger and they are helped by Pakistani
:08:56. > :09:01.intelligence, it directly assisted by the Pakistani security services
:09:01. > :09:05.and getting stronger. That his native. How can that be a job well
:09:05. > :09:09.done? The report you are quoting from is
:09:09. > :09:16.a collection of interviews with Caliban detainees. This reflects a
:09:16. > :09:21.view of the insurgency by captured insurgents -- Taliban detainees. It
:09:21. > :09:26.is not an objective statement. It is a view of the insurgency from
:09:26. > :09:29.insurgents themselves. When this report quotes somebody
:09:29. > :09:33.saying Pakistan's manipulation of the Taliban senior leadership
:09:33. > :09:37.continues unabated, that is not true?
:09:37. > :09:43.The situation in Pakistan is very complex and we should never forget
:09:43. > :09:48.Pakistan is itself the world's largest victim of terrorism, more
:09:48. > :09:52.than 30,000 Pakistani civilians have died in terrorist incidents.
:09:52. > :09:57.The point is, there are whole areas of Afghanistan effectively under
:09:57. > :10:02.the control of the Taliban. For so much so, there are areas where they
:10:02. > :10:06.have helplines. We also know from this report and from other reports
:10:06. > :10:13.that have been done and from she are hard-working journalism as well,
:10:13. > :10:18.the army and the police have been infiltrated by the Taliban. I still
:10:18. > :10:20.don't understand why you can say we, the NATO allies, are making
:10:20. > :10:25.problems? I didn't say the situation was
:10:25. > :10:30.perfect. It is getting better, we have made progress. He said some
:10:30. > :10:34.areas of still controlled by the Taliban, you're absolutely right,
:10:34. > :10:42.but they are smaller areas than were controlled five or six or
:10:42. > :10:47.seven years ago. We are building up substantial competent Afghan
:10:47. > :10:52.national security forces. More and more of the burden of security in
:10:52. > :10:56.Afghanistan is falling on the Afghans. That is the right way. You
:10:57. > :11:04.cannot beat an insurgency with foreign troops, you have to beat it
:11:04. > :11:08.with a indigence -- indigenous troops.
:11:08. > :11:13.The more we get to know about the Afghan army and the police, they
:11:13. > :11:19.are in full dreaded by the Taliban, riddled with the Taliban. They are
:11:19. > :11:22.run by a deeply corrupt government in Kabul.
:11:22. > :11:27.They have been examples of infiltration. The Afghan government
:11:28. > :11:30.after the recent terrible incidents with French troops, the Afghan
:11:30. > :11:36.government have moved to do something serious about this, they
:11:36. > :11:41.have moved a large number of security people into the army to
:11:41. > :11:46.dramatically improve the vetting process.
:11:46. > :11:51.What is to stop, were it not be regarded as a pointless war and
:11:51. > :11:58.huge failure if once a week and the Americans and other allies get out,
:11:58. > :12:03.if the government in Kabul, which is riddled with corruption, $11
:12:03. > :12:13.billion of money in cash leave Kabul on pallets 40 by just about
:12:13. > :12:16.
:12:16. > :12:20.every year -- leave before Dubai eight. If the Taliban takeover that
:12:20. > :12:26.would make it a pointless war. That is not the outcome we are
:12:26. > :12:31.looking for. We are creating a stronger Afghan National Army,
:12:31. > :12:35.police service, why the international community is coming
:12:35. > :12:43.together to make an ongoing commitment to fund the Afghan
:12:43. > :12:47.national security forces over a long period.
:12:47. > :12:51.The international community is very clear as the Afghans takeover
:12:51. > :12:55.responsibility for security, the security forces will need foreign
:12:55. > :12:59.assistance, technical assistance, training assistance, and we have
:12:59. > :13:04.made a commitment in the UK to run an Afghan national officer Academy,
:13:04. > :13:10.and money to allow the security forces to operate at the level of
:13:10. > :13:13.numbers that will enable them to Secure the gains we have made. The
:13:13. > :13:16.fact the international community is resolute on this, and the standing
:13:16. > :13:21.together and willing to make this commitment, should send a strong
:13:21. > :13:26.signal to the Taliban, but also to those who have joined the Afghan
:13:26. > :13:30.National Army themselves there is a future here on the side of good,
:13:30. > :13:36.the side of right, to defend their national territory and from our
:13:36. > :13:42.point of view, critically, make sure Afghanistan can not become a
:13:42. > :13:47.safe haven for terrorism again. Our national security depends on
:13:47. > :13:53.sorting things out in Afghanistan, if that is the case why is
:13:53. > :13:57.Afghanistan not included in the current national security risk
:13:57. > :14:02.assessment? This is a strategic risk assessment
:14:02. > :14:06.looking at longer term strategy. It is clearly still a risk.
:14:06. > :14:10.The air is an operation ongoing and we are managing it on the ground. -
:14:10. > :14:13.- There is an operation. We are conducting a military operation on
:14:13. > :14:18.the ground. If it wasn't a risk we wouldn't be
:14:18. > :14:23.there. Across government There are
:14:23. > :14:28.mountains of paper written about risks and operational aspects of
:14:28. > :14:31.Afghanistan. It is not it has been forgotten that in the structure of
:14:31. > :14:36.documentation strategic document and captain -- tactical documents
:14:36. > :14:44.it doesn't fit in this particular one. It is a bureaucratic and so.
:14:44. > :14:48.It is indeed. If the argument is we have to sort out Afghanistan, the
:14:48. > :14:52.evidence is pretty mixed at best, if it is because we feel attacks
:14:53. > :14:58.could once again be planned there, that would put our lives and the
:14:58. > :15:04.lives of our allies in jeopardy, why are we therefore not in Somalia,
:15:04. > :15:09.the Yemen, Sudan, where al-Qaeda is more active there than it is in
:15:09. > :15:14.Afghanistan? It is more active in those places
:15:14. > :15:17.than it is in Afghanistan precisely because of the success and
:15:17. > :15:20.effectiveness of troops on the ground in Afghanistan. A do we have
:15:20. > :15:24.to go to these places after we leave Afghanistan?
:15:24. > :15:28.I hope not. The purpose of the Somalia conference in London, a
:15:28. > :15:33.very successful conference, was to build an international consensus
:15:33. > :15:37.around how we are going to support the creation of proper governance
:15:37. > :15:42.in Somalia. The same purpose, to close down that on Govan space that
:15:42. > :15:46.has become a home for international terrorism and criminals and make
:15:46. > :15:51.sure there is a proper justice system, a proper system of civil
:15:51. > :15:55.government backed up by in the case of Somalia Africa Union troops
:15:55. > :15:59.doing the hard work on the ground and paid for by money from other
:15:59. > :16:09.countries, a UN money, European Union money, allowing them to do
:16:09. > :16:09.
:16:10. > :16:15.the job that in Afghanistan we are Ordered a proper strategy be to say
:16:15. > :16:20.to the Taliban, we don't like the way you run this country, but it is
:16:20. > :16:25.none of our business. If you take over Afghanistan again, and Juliet
:16:25. > :16:30.Al-Qaeda it in, we will come and get you again, as we did in 2001.
:16:30. > :16:36.After that, it is up to you. All we care about is whether you allow
:16:36. > :16:40.plans against us to take place. If you don't, it is yours. That is our
:16:40. > :16:45.primary purpose in being in Afghanistan, to protect our own
:16:45. > :16:50.national security interest. But that would be compromised if there
:16:50. > :16:54.is not a stable, sustainable government in Afghanistan. To get
:16:54. > :16:58.that, we need a government which reflects all shades of opinion and
:16:58. > :17:02.all ethnic groups in Afghanistan. Simply saying to the Taliban, you
:17:02. > :17:06.can take over as long as you don't let Al-Qaeda in ignores the fact
:17:06. > :17:11.that there are significant other groups in Afghanistan which are
:17:11. > :17:15.anti- Taliban. Flawed be creating a recipe for civil war. We have seen
:17:15. > :17:18.a lot of reports on our TV screens about women in Afghanistan who are
:17:18. > :17:23.already terrified about what will happen when the Western allies get
:17:23. > :17:29.out. I am not a specialist on Afghanistan, but I speak to lots of
:17:29. > :17:34.them, and each of them tells me that it could be four days, four
:17:34. > :17:40.weeks or maybe four months at most that Hamid Karzai's government
:17:40. > :17:44.would survive, and then the Taliban will take over. If that happens and
:17:44. > :17:50.you have already conceded it, if we have not laid the ground for long-
:17:50. > :17:55.term change, and the evidence is difficult to see that we have,
:17:55. > :18:01.these people lost their lives, 404 of them, and it will have been a
:18:01. > :18:05.pointless war. But your opinion on this is well understood. It is not
:18:05. > :18:11.my opinion, it is what I am hearing from others. You have set out an
:18:11. > :18:16.opinion. So we are working to ensure that there is stability in
:18:16. > :18:21.Afghanistan after the end of ISAF combat operations. On the sustain
:18:21. > :18:26.month of the government, after the Soviets left Afghanistan, they
:18:26. > :18:31.continued to fund the regime for three years. So long as the money
:18:31. > :18:35.flowed to pay the troops, that regime survived. It collapsed when
:18:35. > :18:39.the Soviet Union withdrew the funding. That is why the
:18:39. > :18:43.international community understands how important it is to make that
:18:43. > :18:47.commitment over the long term to continue to fund a strong Afghan
:18:47. > :18:52.national security forces so that they can carry on doing the job
:18:52. > :19:00.that our brave soldiers have done. Let's hope the money ends up where
:19:00. > :19:10.it is meant to be. Let me finish on Syria. We have seen the defection
:19:10. > :19:12.
:19:12. > :19:17.of the senior Syrian minister. Are we in any way giving help to the
:19:17. > :19:20.rebels on the ground? We are giving encouragement to the Syrian
:19:20. > :19:27.opposition, but we are not providing them with any lethal
:19:27. > :19:32.weaponry. Should we? No. That would be illegal under the current
:19:32. > :19:40.international regime. So we are encouraging them, but we will leave
:19:40. > :19:44.them to tough it out with a massive, well-armed, ruthless army?
:19:44. > :19:49.approach to this is well understood. We will exert every possible
:19:49. > :19:54.pressure on this terrible regime in Syria. We will keep up pressure on
:19:54. > :19:58.Russia and China, who have blocked UN Security Council resolutions.
:19:58. > :20:04.And we will continue to seek to get a UN Security Council resolution
:20:04. > :20:09.that will up the pressure on the regime and allow members of the
:20:09. > :20:13.international community to take action. But it has to be legal. We
:20:13. > :20:21.have a clear framework within which we operate, and we can only do
:20:21. > :20:26.things when they are legal. Deborah, your opinion on Afghanistan? Per
:20:26. > :20:30.calling it pointless is difficult, because you don't know what the
:20:30. > :20:35.alternative future would be. have made a difference. We would
:20:35. > :20:38.all like to believe that when we walked away, we would leave a good
:20:38. > :20:44.government that can take the country forward. Whether or not
:20:44. > :20:51.that is true, I hope we will have made enough of a difference to have
:20:51. > :20:57.given Afghanistan a better future. No doubt Mr Hammond will come back
:20:57. > :21:05.in two years' time. I thought I might get an invitation before then.
:21:06. > :21:09.You will. Do we know when in 2014 it will be? December 31st, 2014. We
:21:09. > :21:13.will be out of operations by then. But the pattern of draw down
:21:13. > :21:22.between now and then will depend on events on the ground and what our
:21:22. > :21:26.allies are doing. Now, MPs will be debating social
:21:26. > :21:29.care in the Commons later today. Like many political footballs, it
:21:29. > :21:33.is a problem that keeps being kicked into long grass, but with
:21:33. > :21:37.people living longer, there is increasing pressure to find a
:21:37. > :21:42.solution. Adam is in the central lobby of Parliament. Yes, this
:21:42. > :21:44.debate which is happening in a couple of hours' time will be
:21:44. > :21:48.happening in the time reserved for backbenchers to bring up topics of
:21:48. > :21:53.concern to them. We are joined by the Conservative MP Sarah Newton,
:21:53. > :21:56.organised it, and Andy Burnham, the Shadow Health secretary. Sarah,
:21:56. > :21:59.what are you trying to achieve? all understand that the current
:21:59. > :22:04.system through which we provide care for people with disabilities
:22:04. > :22:09.or chronic illnesses or the frail and elderly is not fit for purpose.
:22:09. > :22:12.There are real issues about how it is funded. I am delighted that the
:22:12. > :22:19.opposition have joined the government in all-party talks to
:22:19. > :22:23.find a solution. Today is about the backbenchers on all parts of the
:22:23. > :22:27.House showing the front benches how important their negotiations are
:22:27. > :22:31.and how much support there is in the country and Parliament to find
:22:31. > :22:37.a solution. It seems that this debate is always about really big
:22:37. > :22:42.issues for the next 30 years. Can anything be done right now? Plenty.
:22:42. > :22:46.The Government set up a commission which came up with a series of
:22:46. > :22:51.recommendations, some of which do not cost any money. There is
:22:51. > :22:56.sorting out the system of deciding who gets what care and how it is
:22:56. > :23:01.paid for. Those things could be implemented without any real cost.
:23:01. > :23:04.There are changes to the way we do some of the meanest of the means
:23:04. > :23:09.testing around residential care and who pays for it. Then there are
:23:09. > :23:14.other more difficult discussions about the other recommendations to
:23:14. > :23:20.do with the shared way between the state and individual as to who pays
:23:20. > :23:25.for care. Those are difficult and will need proper discussions.
:23:25. > :23:30.I know you are in the middle of these cross-party talks. But some
:23:30. > :23:35.of those things that Sarah mentions, will they be fixed in this process?
:23:35. > :23:39.Let's hope so. Sarah puts it very well. People in the country are
:23:39. > :23:45.looking to politicians to show some leadership here and work across
:23:45. > :23:49.party boundaries. I pay tribute to Sarah and my colleague who are
:23:49. > :23:53.bringing this debate, and it is a nudge to the Government to say, get
:23:53. > :23:58.on with it. This is too important to people who are suffering great
:23:58. > :24:03.unfairness. People are losing their homes. The quality of care is not
:24:03. > :24:08.good enough in many cases. We need a lasting solution to give the
:24:08. > :24:13.quality and dignity and peace of mind in old age that our pensioners
:24:13. > :24:18.deserve. Everyone agrees that we have left this a bit late. Why has
:24:18. > :24:22.the mettle not been grasped Until now? I did try to grasp it in their
:24:22. > :24:28.last Parliament. Then the electoral cycle came up against me. There are
:24:28. > :24:32.always those risks. But in some ways, that process has helped
:24:32. > :24:36.underline the urgency. It led this Government to set up the Dilnot
:24:36. > :24:41.Commission, who deserve great credit, because they brought
:24:41. > :24:46.forward some proposals we can work with. Let's work forward and see if
:24:46. > :24:49.we can get this introduced. Dilnot would only be a first step. We
:24:49. > :24:53.should not kid ourselves that it would take away all the
:24:53. > :24:57.unfairnesses, but it is an important first step. You led a
:24:57. > :25:01.rally of NHS workers last night fighting against the changes to the
:25:01. > :25:07.health service. Isn't it too late, as it will be law in a couple of
:25:07. > :25:12.weeks? Time is running out for the NHS, sadly. But it is not too late.
:25:12. > :25:16.We will fight to the end. But government and Parliament are not
:25:16. > :25:20.listening, sadly. There are debates in the House of Lords today, and it
:25:20. > :25:24.does not look like anything will change. Thousands of people signed
:25:24. > :25:28.a petition, and the government has denied a debate. Labour has
:25:28. > :25:31.announced that we will hold an opposition debate next Tuesday and
:25:31. > :25:36.there will be a final chance to ditch this dangerous Bill and
:25:36. > :25:40.protect our NHS. I will join that debate so that we can stop the
:25:40. > :25:43.shocking scaremongering. Doctors, nurses and people in the health
:25:43. > :25:48.service in Cornwall are getting on with making the most of these
:25:48. > :25:52.excellent reforms, which will improve patient care. I think
:25:52. > :25:59.doctors and nurses have different views, actually. Now we have an
:25:59. > :26:06.interesting piece about German business. Back to you, Andrew.
:26:06. > :26:10.How does he know what is coming up? Oh, he works for it. You are a cult
:26:10. > :26:16.of lot, so you already know the German word "mittelstand", which is
:26:16. > :26:22.what the Germans call the thousands of middle-sized companies which
:26:22. > :26:29.form the backbone of their booming economy. Adam is a busy chap. He
:26:29. > :26:35.has been to the city of Dortmund and reported on the lessons we can
:26:35. > :26:39.learn. I have been learning the language
:26:39. > :26:42.of the "mittelstand" - literally, the middle class, the mid-sized
:26:42. > :26:49.German firms which earned a fifth of the country's revenue and
:26:49. > :26:54.employer 5th of the workforce. There is a word for engineering has
:26:54. > :26:59.and another word for exports. That is what Limo are about. They do
:26:59. > :27:02.complicated things with lasers. They are typical of "mittelstand"
:27:03. > :27:10.firms. They concentrate on niche engineering products and sell a lot
:27:10. > :27:17.abroad. We need to have in-depth knowledge of two things - what the
:27:18. > :27:22.customers do with our products, and specialised technologies to make
:27:22. > :27:28.our products. It is important that we have specialties which cannot be
:27:28. > :27:35.copied easily. That helps with competition from, say, China.
:27:35. > :27:39.Europe or the States. There is another word for corporate culture.
:27:39. > :27:44.That is important here, where they make part of the arch for at
:27:44. > :27:47.Wembley Stadium. Like many others in the "mittelstand", this firm his
:27:47. > :27:53.family owned. Derek is the third generation of the family in charge,
:27:53. > :27:56.and in a few years, his son will take over. Here, not too big and
:27:56. > :27:59.not too small is just right. family is speaking with one voice.
:27:59. > :28:06.We do not have too many shareholders. So quick decisions
:28:07. > :28:15.help us to make the right steps to the market. I am more than 30 years
:28:15. > :28:21.in the company. I know all the employees in the company by name.
:28:21. > :28:25.We would like to continue staying at around 100 employees so that I
:28:25. > :28:32.am able to keep the situation. recent recruit from the UK is
:28:32. > :28:36.already noticing some differences. My first impression is that they
:28:36. > :28:42.invest for the long game. It really matters what kind of tooling they
:28:42. > :28:47.have. They like the best kit. And they invest money into all that
:28:47. > :28:51.that goes around it as well. Another word translates into
:28:51. > :28:55.support for business. Out there, there is a lot of support for the
:28:55. > :28:59."mittelstand". Universities are keen to help, and there is an
:28:59. > :29:04.apprentice system churning out well qualified employees and a business
:29:05. > :29:10.bank funded by the state. It is important that the bank's support
:29:10. > :29:16.them. But they only support them when the products coming out are
:29:16. > :29:23.really good for the markets. They will approve it before they give
:29:23. > :29:27.the money. But then they will give support for the next 10 or 15 years.
:29:27. > :29:34.The reason this matters is that the CBI reckon if we could translate
:29:34. > :29:42.this back in Britain, then how are -- they could add an extra 50
:29:42. > :29:45.billion to the economy by 2020. Tasty.
:29:45. > :29:51.The Bank of England has told us that interest rates are staying at
:29:51. > :30:01.0.5%. No surprise there. But no quantitative easing either. It is
:30:01. > :30:04.
:30:04. > :30:08.sticking out �575 billion for the I'm joined by John Cridland and
:30:08. > :30:17.Elizabeth Truss, who has been following the German model. That we
:30:17. > :30:22.can to you, Elizabeth. There has been endless reports on this kind
:30:23. > :30:28.of company in Germany. Germany still had a lost decade. I would
:30:28. > :30:33.suggest the real thing that changed was the labour reforms which began
:30:33. > :30:41.under Gerhard Schroder, and have continued under the current
:30:41. > :30:44.coalition. You're absolutely right. That is true. If you look at 2000,
:30:44. > :30:49.Germany was performing badly in terms of skills, they the market
:30:49. > :30:54.flexibility. In 2005 they had 16% youth unemployment whereas now it
:30:54. > :30:59.is down to 8%. Be introduced more flexibility into their jobs market,
:30:59. > :31:03.they made small companies exempt from employment regulation, unfair
:31:04. > :31:08.dismissal regulation, created new jobs which allowed people to go
:31:08. > :31:13.into work at much lower rates of tax, and those jobs were taken by
:31:13. > :31:18.young people and much older people. A have to welcome our viewers from
:31:19. > :31:23.Scotland, they have been watching First Minister's questions in the
:31:23. > :31:28.Scottish parliament. We welcome you now. We are discussing the German
:31:28. > :31:37.strength of middle-sized companies, not the giant All the small ones,
:31:38. > :31:42.but the medium sized ones, mittelstand is the pronunciation.
:31:42. > :31:47.Sorry to interrupt you. I just like to keep the Scots informed.
:31:47. > :31:51.Absolutely. They also improved their education system. In 2000
:31:51. > :31:57.they were 12 places behind the UK in maths. They are 12 places ahead
:31:57. > :32:06.of us. We are in 20th position. We have had a lost decade, rather than
:32:06. > :32:12.Germany. They doubled the length of the school day. They insisted
:32:12. > :32:15.people so deep key academic subjects into a 16. -- studied.
:32:15. > :32:18.Regardless of whether you are following a vocational course or
:32:18. > :32:23.academic course they up at the level of teaching, qualifications
:32:23. > :32:28.people studied. And reformed welfare. Some of the things we are
:32:28. > :32:32.doing as a government they started doing in 2002. They created all
:32:32. > :32:35.these new flexible jobs which meant it was easier for employers to take
:32:35. > :32:42.people on and much easier for small firms to get going in the jobs
:32:42. > :32:48.market. Would you make of that? Are there lessons to be learnt? Yes,
:32:48. > :32:52.there are. Let's make this our decade. In the last decade Germany
:32:52. > :32:57.dominated world exports by selling their phenomenal capital goods. The
:32:57. > :33:02.next decade could be ours if Our companies get out into those
:33:02. > :33:06.emerging middle-class markets, Asia, Latin America, and even now in
:33:06. > :33:12.Africa, with our consumer goods and product. When I went through
:33:12. > :33:20.Shanghai airport recently Jaguar Land Rover, Burberry fashion,
:33:20. > :33:30.dozens of new holiday in Poole being set up. There are great
:33:30. > :33:32.
:33:32. > :33:36.strengths Britain can have. Consumer goods are the preserve of
:33:36. > :33:41.big companies. These German companies Adam was talking about
:33:41. > :33:47.one of providing consumer goods, they are doing business to business.
:33:47. > :33:55.That is not our strength. There are companies like that, a firm in my
:33:55. > :34:00.constituency which produces airport security devices. They created this
:34:00. > :34:04.new product they are exporting to China. It is about the level of
:34:04. > :34:08.support we give those companies out in the field. Under the previous
:34:08. > :34:14.government the number of embassies was reduced. William Hague is
:34:14. > :34:17.saying let's get more stuff out in embassies, promote our trade.
:34:17. > :34:21.hear it from a business woman. I guess the point I am trying to make
:34:21. > :34:26.his widowed have, you can always find one, we don't have the
:34:26. > :34:31.critical mass of these. It is interesting they even talk about
:34:31. > :34:35.this. We bundle everything together in small list and medium-sized
:34:35. > :34:40.enterprises. They are two very different things. Start-up
:34:40. > :34:44.businesses are the next middle sized enterprises and we need to do
:34:44. > :34:47.with them separately. The middle size are going to be able to take
:34:47. > :34:52.advantage of the foreign markets, grown-up businesses, they can go
:34:52. > :35:01.for it. I would go back to the unwinding of the Employment market.
:35:01. > :35:05.It is very important. When you do that, we listen to the BT there,
:35:05. > :35:10.talked about being flexible, quick decision-making, when you get rid
:35:10. > :35:15.of these bindings, then you really create. Your government is unable
:35:15. > :35:20.to do that as long as Vince Cable is business secretary. We have
:35:20. > :35:28.heard some positive signs from the Chancellor about small businesses
:35:28. > :35:38.and whether or not they will be exempted. Vince Cable knees look at
:35:38. > :35:40.
:35:40. > :35:48.the evidence. -- needs to look at the evidence. I agree with Deborah,
:35:48. > :35:54.let's be clear he we need to grow, most government policy across both
:35:54. > :36:00.parties until recently has focused on the small enterprises. Don't
:36:01. > :36:07.stop helping small but also help the medium-sized enterprises. We
:36:07. > :36:11.need to focus on businesses up to 100 employees. You have even got
:36:11. > :36:19.that to regulation for business. also need to look at young people
:36:19. > :36:23.and how we will get young people work experience into employment.
:36:23. > :36:27.Interesting, because they created particular contract for low earners
:36:27. > :36:30.which made it easier for companies to take them on because I think we
:36:30. > :36:38.do need to look at particular companies, we need to look at how
:36:38. > :36:48.we get all companies. Remember Nationwide on BBC One, it was
:36:48. > :36:49.
:36:49. > :36:55.regional, in the early 70s the BBC did several items, exactly like
:36:55. > :37:00.that one, on these mittelstand companies, that was 40 years ago.
:37:00. > :37:05.We have not got this right. Let's face the future. We have got a
:37:05. > :37:13.great model that is broken because it was based on public spending and
:37:13. > :37:18.consumer debt growth. Final. From you, Deborah. I want to go back to
:37:18. > :37:28.education. -- Final's and from you. Doubling the scholar of doesn't do
:37:28. > :37:30.
:37:30. > :37:34.it. we need relevant education. I see far too many people coming out
:37:34. > :37:40.of the end of school, even going through apprenticeships, which are
:37:40. > :37:44.not matched to jobs. Could they just Maghreb point out it was the
:37:44. > :37:54.Royal Commission of 1868 that reported the British needed to
:37:54. > :37:55.
:37:55. > :37:59.learn more about German technical education -- could I did point out.
:37:59. > :38:04.Our producers phoned the credit rating agencies every day asking
:38:04. > :38:08.them to come on the show, and we have tried to bribe them, but for
:38:08. > :38:13.some reason the strange mysterious financial times, they all say no.
:38:13. > :38:23.They did agree to appear at the Treasury Select Committee yesterday.
:38:23. > :38:25.
:38:25. > :38:30.He has a flavour of what happened. Have you apologised to the millions
:38:30. > :38:33.of people who lost out as a consequence? We clearly indicated
:38:33. > :38:39.we are not satisfied with the performance of our ratings. He is
:38:39. > :38:47.that an apology or not? It is exactly what I have indicated.
:38:47. > :38:50.should take that as no. What I can say to you very clearly is at
:38:50. > :38:57.Standard and Poor's there was a high level of individual ownership
:38:57. > :39:01.and responsibility for the roles people carry out in the jobs and
:39:01. > :39:07.very strong collective corporate responsibility about what we do.
:39:07. > :39:13.How many people have been fired as a result of this? Because they were
:39:13. > :39:18.incompetent? Her that is not what I said. There is a personal sense of
:39:18. > :39:22.responsibility. We rate according to our criteria, beginning, middle,
:39:22. > :39:32.and end and that is the way we go about the signing ratings. Ratings
:39:32. > :39:36.are not aside by individuals, by committees. Of the ratings
:39:36. > :39:42.investment grade into dozens of six, what percentage of those in the
:39:42. > :39:51.structured finance instrument market did you have to downgrade? -
:39:51. > :40:01.- in 2006. I did have their specific data. -- I do not have
:40:01. > :40:04.
:40:04. > :40:14.that specific data. What percentage in the US market? 80%, 90%? I do
:40:14. > :40:17.
:40:17. > :40:24.not know. Any clue at all? I do not have these numbers to hand. We can
:40:24. > :40:30.very happily provide them. I don't think they like them, did
:40:30. > :40:34.you get that impression? I'm joined by Michael Fallon he sits on the
:40:34. > :40:37.Treasury Select Committee, and the former chairman of that committee,
:40:37. > :40:45.John McFall who used to be on his programme every the day, then he
:40:45. > :40:50.went to the House of Lords. Did he seek they have let you out. It has
:40:50. > :40:55.been open season on the credit agencies ever since they gave all
:40:55. > :41:03.these AAA ratings, still open season from the Treasury Select
:41:03. > :41:07.Committee, so why do we take them so seriously? It was a pretty poor
:41:07. > :41:12.performance yesterday, certainly not AAA. They didn't even apologise.
:41:13. > :41:17.The answer to that question was around 80% or 90% had to be
:41:17. > :41:21.downgraded, they had got it wrong. They were a big part of the problem
:41:21. > :41:27.and we need to understand why things went wrong. They got paid a
:41:27. > :41:31.ton of money for giving these great. They were paid a ton of money by
:41:31. > :41:35.the people issuing the bonds. In the olden days they used to be paid
:41:35. > :41:39.by investors, so questions about how they are paid, the transparency
:41:40. > :41:43.of how they work, and competition. As you saw from the clip, there are
:41:43. > :41:49.only three big agencies for the whole world, that isn't a very
:41:49. > :41:57.competitive structure. Betty's Standard and Poor's, Fitch and
:41:57. > :42:02.Moody's. -- that is. We seem to be terrified of a downgrade. Mr
:42:02. > :42:10.Sarkozy in France came a cropper because he made such a big deal of
:42:10. > :42:14.the AAA rating for France. Mr Osborne dined out on hour rating.
:42:14. > :42:19.There was a big mistake. If you look at what Michael said there
:42:19. > :42:24.isn't a market, There are three rating agencies, but there are
:42:24. > :42:34.Moody's and Standard and Poor's, you need HMS Victory to ratings for
:42:34. > :42:34.
:42:34. > :42:41.an endorsement so there isn't a monopoly -- two. To have an opera
:42:41. > :42:49.for off at -- why not have a not put for-profit entity? They can
:42:49. > :42:55.increase their business by giving good ratings for companies. Lehman
:42:55. > :43:01.Brothers, it had an A rating for a month. Northern Rock, all of them
:43:01. > :43:08.them trouble a ratings, why was that the case? -- all of them up
:43:08. > :43:13.gave AAA ratings. In the end it was Arthur Andersen
:43:13. > :43:17.came a real cropper over this. suddenly turned round and said
:43:17. > :43:22.people shouldn't rely on them. We should take them so seriously.
:43:22. > :43:26.Isn't the problem some pension funds and others -- other big
:43:26. > :43:32.investors are legally or by the row and articles of association are
:43:32. > :43:41.mandated to buy only things that are AAA rated? I was at a breakfast
:43:41. > :43:44.in Parliament and the FSA chief executive made the point we are
:43:44. > :43:49.hard-wired into the market so any decision by rating agencies has an
:43:49. > :43:52.effect on the flow of credit. That is nonsense. If I had to give
:43:52. > :43:57.advice from my lowly position to George Osborne and others, it was
:43:57. > :44:00.safe to get a rating agencies, get on to the European securities
:44:00. > :44:05.market authority responsible for them rather than the FSA, and
:44:05. > :44:14.ensure we have a market and they do not interfere in sovereign debt and
:44:14. > :44:20.other debt and upset the whole applecart. Are you AAA rated?
:44:20. > :44:27.think you have to said the most sensible thing. To be perfectly
:44:27. > :44:29.honest they make you very lazy. You think OK, AAA rating, and no longer
:44:29. > :44:34.have to bother because you have done the work. I know in my
:44:34. > :44:37.business if I am going to do business with somebody I need to
:44:37. > :44:40.note, I did need to rely on somebody else to tell me it is OK,
:44:40. > :44:50.they will pay. I need to understand and I think they're very dangerous
:44:50. > :44:52.
:44:52. > :44:58.and badly applied. That is enough beating up of the
:44:58. > :45:02.pork rating agencies. Don't go away. I would go to say happy birthday
:45:02. > :45:12.interest rates, a rate of 0.5% is three years old today. The Bank of
:45:12. > :45:22.England kept them on hold at that level for the 36 months -- 36
:45:22. > :45:30.
:45:30. > :45:38.Explain to our viewers, who will be puzzled - why our mortgage rates
:45:38. > :45:41.now rising when the administered base rate is still at only 0.5%?
:45:41. > :45:46.Basically, the Bank of England only directly controls the base rate.
:45:46. > :45:50.But nobody really lends and borrows at that rate. Mortgages are
:45:50. > :45:55.depended -- determined by longer term interest rates, which are
:45:55. > :45:59.determined by more powerful economic forces. These two have now
:45:59. > :46:03.diverged. There are two banks -- weighs a bank can raise the money
:46:03. > :46:07.to lend someone cashed a buy a house. The first is by borrowing
:46:07. > :46:13.from other banks, and the cost of that has gone up partly because of
:46:13. > :46:16.the Eurozone crisis, and secondly, by getting more in deposits. But
:46:16. > :46:19.there are not enough deposits because there has not been enough
:46:19. > :46:23.saving in the UK. And the banks are now starting to compete with each
:46:23. > :46:29.other to offer higher interest rates on ISAs and those sorts of
:46:29. > :46:33.devices. But is now fuelling into the price at which they are now
:46:33. > :46:37.lending that sort of money. So you are now starting to see the
:46:37. > :46:41.mortgage time bomb go off. But is to say that these years of very low
:46:41. > :46:44.mortgages are starting to come to an end, because the cost of
:46:44. > :46:49.borrowing on the long-term markets is going up. There is nothing the
:46:49. > :46:54.Bank of England can do about it. A lot of the rules and regulations
:46:54. > :46:57.that the FSA has put through are contributing to that, because by
:46:57. > :47:01.making the banking system safer and by getting back to hold more
:47:01. > :47:05.capital against their loans in case something goes wrong, that is
:47:05. > :47:10.pushing up the price of money for people who want to get a mortgage.
:47:10. > :47:14.So we are seeing the start of a big process of re-and normalisation of
:47:14. > :47:20.interest rates, something people have been too complacent about,
:47:20. > :47:28.because they have got used to these cheap mortgages and have forgotten
:47:28. > :47:33.the 5% to 8% mortgages which used to be the norm. Done that for, the
:47:33. > :47:35.0.5 base rate is irrelevant to our base rate. Banks have to borrow
:47:35. > :47:40.long-term to finance long-term loans like mortgages. Alistair
:47:40. > :47:44.Heath says long-term finance is rising, therefore mortgage rates
:47:44. > :47:50.will have to rise? The air is a defect in the market. There is no
:47:50. > :47:55.such thing as free banking. The introduction of quantitative easing,
:47:55. > :48:01.if I was on the Select Committee, I would be looking at that. Nobody
:48:01. > :48:06.can tell me exactly where it goes, who gains out of it. There are big
:48:07. > :48:13.issues about a distorted market. That is leading to this, where the
:48:13. > :48:18.average interest rate is now on a credit card, about 17%, and on a
:48:18. > :48:23.savings rate, 0.2%. I was at a dinner the other night at which a
:48:23. > :48:27.chief executive of Lloyds gave a great Riz -- presentation on
:48:27. > :48:33.corporate responsibility. But he did not mention the problems with
:48:33. > :48:36.mortgage rates. Let's say for the sake of this discussion that we
:48:36. > :48:41.accept the analysis that mortgage rates are being driven by long-term
:48:41. > :48:48.interest rates, which no government can control. The market's control
:48:48. > :48:52.that. But why are banks charging me around 18% if I don't pay off all
:48:52. > :48:58.of the credit card, and why are they are charging me almost 18% on
:48:58. > :49:04.my overdraft? That seems like a rip-off. They have to borrow the
:49:04. > :49:08.money. Not at 18%. It is not quite as Alistair Heath said. The bank
:49:08. > :49:13.has been able to keep fixed rates down, because we have fiscal
:49:13. > :49:18.credibility in this country. Now the variable rate is changing as
:49:18. > :49:23.people are coming off their fixes and finding the variable rate
:49:23. > :49:27.shooting up. There are long-term answers to bat, which is to have
:49:27. > :49:30.more competition in banking, which is what we are doing. Northern Rock
:49:30. > :49:37.are under the Virgin umbrella. Because of the way we are reforming
:49:37. > :49:47.regulation, we should have more regulation within backs. That does
:49:47. > :49:51.not explain the gap. The lending on mortgages is at around 4%. So they
:49:51. > :49:55.have to be borrowing at under three, but they are charging the 18% on an
:49:55. > :50:02.overdraft. But banks earn money through lending at an interest rate
:50:02. > :50:07.and making charges. That is usury. But banks are not directly charging
:50:07. > :50:11.you, because they have to buy a new computer. All of their running
:50:11. > :50:16.costs are then wrapped up in bank charges and interest rates. People
:50:16. > :50:24.forget that banks are a business. But I see more and more charges.
:50:24. > :50:31.�20 here, �25 there. But they are losing money. When did you last
:50:31. > :50:35.change your bank? That is the answer, to switch your account.
:50:35. > :50:41.the manager of Drummond's is watching now, you are in trouble. I
:50:41. > :50:45.have to go back to Alistair Heath. The implication you were giving is
:50:45. > :50:52.that this rise in mortgage rates is just the beginning. Are you telling
:50:52. > :50:56.us to prepare for higher mortgages in the months and years to come?
:50:56. > :51:00.Absolutely. That is definitely what is going to happen. I have no idea
:51:00. > :51:05.exactly when, because you cannot forecast these things. But over the
:51:05. > :51:08.next few years, mortgages are going to go up. People living in this
:51:09. > :51:14.bubble who think that mortgages will remain permanently cheap -
:51:14. > :51:19.they are not. The change has only just started. The consequences will
:51:19. > :51:29.be much more severe over the next few years. We have run out of time.
:51:29. > :51:30.
:51:30. > :51:33.You will have to come back more often and see us. I have been told
:51:33. > :51:37.you are ten times more likely to get divorced than change your bank
:51:37. > :51:42.account. I have never been divorced, and I think I might be able to
:51:42. > :51:46.change my bank account. I will play Michael Fallon if I do. No a,
:51:46. > :51:50.believe it or not, MPs are subject to some rules in Parliament.
:51:50. > :51:55.No rowdy behaviour in the chamber. You are not allowed to call a
:51:55. > :52:04.fellow MP a liar. The list goes on, as Quentin Letts explains in the
:52:04. > :52:08.latest of our series on the A to Z of Parliament.
:52:08. > :52:14.O is for Order, which is kept in the House of Commons at least some
:52:14. > :52:19.of the time by the Speaker, John Bercow. Order, order! The speaker
:52:19. > :52:24.is the man elected by other MPs to chair the meetings in I elected
:52:24. > :52:27.chamber. But he himself does not make up the rules. They are
:52:27. > :52:32.contained in an important book called Erskine May. To find out
:52:32. > :52:37.more, I have come to the parliamentary archives room.
:52:37. > :52:42.Erskine May's treatise on the law, privileges, proceedings and usage
:52:42. > :52:49.of Parliament, 23rd edition. That is the latest one. But the first
:52:49. > :52:55.edition goes back to 1844. As you can see, it is occasionally updated.
:52:55. > :52:59.Why is it called Erskine May? Well, Sir Thomas Erskine May was a young
:53:00. > :53:05.man who came to work in the House of Commons as an assistant
:53:05. > :53:08.librarian in 1831. He worked here for 55 years. During that time, he
:53:08. > :53:12.realised that politicians need rules, otherwise they will
:53:12. > :53:17.misbehave. Here is a photograph of the man towards the end of his
:53:17. > :53:21.career. By the end of his career, he was sufficiently prominent to be
:53:21. > :53:27.on intimate terms with the Prime Minister, receiving frequent
:53:27. > :53:34.letters from Gladstone. Here it is. 1882, "My Dear Sir T May". There
:53:34. > :53:38.are numerous letters like this. Name was important, and he remains
:53:38. > :53:42.important. Although this volume looks a bit dry and dusty in this
:53:42. > :53:45.learned environment, it is the coathanger around which all
:53:45. > :53:49.parliamentary discourse rests. Without rules of engagement, you
:53:49. > :53:52.will not be able to extract information from a government. Look
:53:52. > :54:02.what happens in some of the countries where they do not have
:54:02. > :54:02.
:54:02. > :54:06.Erskine May - anarchy breaks out. You would not be able to get away
:54:07. > :54:10.with that in the House of Commons, mainly because of Erskine May. The
:54:10. > :54:18.rules are very strict on what you can call people in the House of
:54:18. > :54:20.Commons. Blackguard, criminal, dog - not allowed. Impertinent puppy,
:54:20. > :54:26.pecksniffian cant - all of these are listed as forbidden expressions.
:54:26. > :54:30.The next edition of this rule book will lay down the law on the use by
:54:30. > :54:34.MPs in the Chamber of mobile phones. I wonder what Sir Thomas Erskine
:54:34. > :54:44.May would have made of that? Mind you, when you look at that
:54:44. > :54:48.photograph, he looks as though he may be on a mobile himself.
:54:48. > :54:52.We are joined now by Tony Wright, who used to be an MP and has
:54:52. > :54:58.written a book about renewing the professionalism of politics and
:54:58. > :55:04.politicians. He is another old friend of the programme. Parliament
:55:04. > :55:08.took a battering over MPs' expenses. I guess it is fair to say it will
:55:08. > :55:12.take a while to recover from that? But I think it is starting to.
:55:12. > :55:18.Parliament is in better shape now than when I left. We have some good
:55:18. > :55:21.new people. The intake of 2010 was impressive. And I think they are
:55:22. > :55:26.committed to making Parliament matter more. The reforms we put in
:55:26. > :55:31.are beginning to pay off. You can see the Commons exerting itself in
:55:31. > :55:36.ways it has not before, whether it is the Tory MP rebellion over
:55:36. > :55:40.Europe, over 80 of them, or Labour putting a motion down on the bonus
:55:40. > :55:44.for the chief executive of RBS, which became a game changer.
:55:44. > :55:49.Parliament is becoming more interesting. There are far more
:55:49. > :55:52.layers of opinion. People have greater confidence to take
:55:52. > :55:58.seriously the business of holding governments to account, even on
:55:58. > :56:02.their own side. When I came in, at the high point of Blairism, I was a
:56:02. > :56:07.great Blairite, but we really did believe in controlling the place.
:56:07. > :56:11.That made it very difficult. It is different now. Is that because
:56:11. > :56:15.coalition government has given Parliament a new lease of life?
:56:16. > :56:20.complicates things in all kinds of ways, and complications give you
:56:20. > :56:26.opportunities. We have a select committee system now which is now
:56:26. > :56:30.elected. Created by the man who died this week. Indeed, he was the
:56:30. > :56:34.progenitor of the original Senate committee in 1979. And we reformed
:56:34. > :56:40.them again to make them elected. So the people who run these committees
:56:40. > :56:47.now have far more clout. Isn't one of the problems politics faces,
:56:47. > :56:50.particularly the House of Commons, that more and more politics is
:56:50. > :56:57.being dominated by a new generation of people who have only known
:56:57. > :57:02.politics? That is a worry. If there is one worry I have, well, there
:57:02. > :57:05.are lots of them, but one is the idea that there could be a
:57:05. > :57:10.political class developing of people who have only ever done
:57:10. > :57:13.politics. Straight out of university. That would be a big
:57:13. > :57:17.change in our political life. We have to be inventive in thinking of
:57:17. > :57:26.ways to bring different people in at different points in their life.
:57:26. > :57:30.Or we will use -- we will lose the variety. It will shrivel. You have
:57:30. > :57:34.to bring knowledge and feeling and experience. If you deprive the
:57:34. > :57:38.Commons of feeling and experience, you really diminish it. It becomes
:57:38. > :57:44.more like a technocrat in venture. Ever thought of getting into
:57:44. > :57:53.politics yourself? I am told I would be no good at it! You might
:57:53. > :57:58.stir it up. I am not sure how long I would last. I am fascinated by it,
:57:58. > :58:04.but there is still this stigma that says, would I really want to get
:58:04. > :58:09.involved in that? We need to get on. There is just time before we go to
:58:09. > :58:14.find out the answer to our quiz. The question was, which city has
:58:14. > :58:20.the most billionaire's? It was New York, Moscow, London or bat.
:58:20. > :58:28.would say Moscow. That is the correct answer. Yes! I said New
:58:28. > :58:33.York, but that was wrong. I agree with Deborah. Tony Wright, good to
:58:33. > :58:38.see you. Deborah, thanks for being our guest. Thank you to all our
:58:38. > :58:42.guests. I am back tonight UMPIRE:, with Michael Portillo, Diane Abbott,
:58:42. > :58:47.Peter Stringfellow, David Frost and more from Quentin Letts.