:00:41. > :00:45.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:45. > :00:49.Some decent news from Greece at last. But there's plenty more pain
:00:49. > :00:52.to come. Athens has reached agreement with most of their
:00:52. > :00:55.private creditors, to write off billions of pounds of debt, which
:00:55. > :01:02.triggers more bailout money from Europe and the IMF. But Greek debts
:01:02. > :01:05.are still gigantic, and even more austerity looms.
:01:05. > :01:08.Plans to speed up the adoption process for thousands of children
:01:08. > :01:13.are to be announced by David Cameron, including making it easier
:01:13. > :01:17.for white couples to adopt black children. We'll get the details
:01:17. > :01:21.from the Children's Minister. More protests are expected in
:01:21. > :01:24.Russia this weekend, against Vladimir Putin's election victory.
:01:24. > :01:32.We'll get the thoughts of a former Foreign Secretary and a former
:01:32. > :01:42.British Ambassador to Moscow. And, find out why the European
:01:42. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :01:46.Commission has got into hot water All that in the next hour. And I
:01:46. > :01:52.also bring you good news. According to the papers, it turns out spring
:01:52. > :01:58.is here ten days early! The birds are singing, the trees are
:01:58. > :02:02.blossoming, and the daffs are almost out. And I'm pleased to say,
:02:02. > :02:05.that keeping me company in the studio this lunchtime, are two
:02:05. > :02:08.spring chickens. James Delingpole, who tells us in the Telegraph today
:02:08. > :02:15.that he still has the energy to do manly things, like swim freezing
:02:15. > :02:18.Welsh rivers. And the former Observer political editor, Gaby
:02:18. > :02:26.Hinsliff. We're not sure whether she's prepared to swim a Welsh
:02:26. > :02:31.river or not. I have never been prepared to swim
:02:31. > :02:34.a Welsh river, even when I was young. Let's start with the news
:02:34. > :02:37.that the Greek government has announced it's reached a deal with
:02:37. > :02:40.most of its creditors to accept steep losses, staving off an
:02:40. > :02:44.official credit event default, and paving the way for the next round
:02:45. > :02:54.of European and IMF bailout money. Speaking earlier today, the Greek
:02:55. > :02:56.
:02:56. > :03:01.Finance Minister said this. TRANSLATION: We can't have an
:03:01. > :03:05.investment friendly country and job creation without having a banking
:03:05. > :03:09.mechanism which supports investment. All these things should happen for
:03:10. > :03:14.us to have total success in private sector involvement. We should agree
:03:14. > :03:21.this is the only way to put the country back on its feet and give
:03:21. > :03:25.it a second historic and much- needed chance.
:03:26. > :03:34.The man who hopes to be the next Greek Prime Minister. They have
:03:34. > :03:41.done this deal. Debt in Greece now falls to 160% of GDP. They now have
:03:41. > :03:48.to do spending cuts equivalent to 20% of GDP. Last year, the economy
:03:48. > :03:55.declined by 7% of GDP. And 50% of young Greeks are now unemployed. So,
:03:55. > :04:01.job done!? I would say this is a classic example of kicking the can
:04:01. > :04:06.down the road. If we think of this financial crisis in World War II
:04:06. > :04:10.terms, will probably end the phoney war stage. We have a long way to go
:04:10. > :04:15.before this is resolved and it won't be resolved by delaying it.
:04:15. > :04:21.We have to face up to reality. Greece will eventually lead the
:04:21. > :04:25.eurozone. Absolutely no question. rough time scale? If I could do
:04:25. > :04:32.that I would be making a lot of money on options. I thought you
:04:32. > :04:37.did! Her I lost the last time... lot of the more hard headed
:04:37. > :04:43.commentators are saying this is in itself an achievement to get all of
:04:43. > :04:49.these private creditors to take a massive haircut, avoid an official
:04:49. > :04:59.default. But look at the pain to come. It is better than a messy
:04:59. > :05:03.
:05:03. > :05:08.collapse right now. The suggestion from Christine Lagarde that it is
:05:08. > :05:14.spring-like. This is a British type of spring where it is snowing one
:05:14. > :05:20.minute, sunny the next. It is quite remarkable, the pain that the
:05:20. > :05:24.European elite is prepared to inflict on people, to keep the
:05:25. > :05:29.project on the road. There is a massive political constitutional
:05:29. > :05:36.question. All this pain being inflicted on Greece from outside,
:05:36. > :05:42.on a country which doesn't have its own elected government. That has
:05:42. > :05:48.been pushed back. For Greeks, the historical suspicion of Germans
:05:48. > :05:52.anyway, this is painful. At the same time, if you look at the
:05:52. > :05:59.opinion surveys and the Greeks have persuaded themselves that the euro
:05:59. > :06:06.is somehow good for them. I can't see that lasting. I would say one
:06:06. > :06:10.thing. Keep your eye on Portugal. That could be next in the frame. A
:06:10. > :06:13.diplomatic row is brewing with Italy, over the tragic deaths of an
:06:13. > :06:16.Italian and a Briton, after a failed attempt to rescue them in
:06:16. > :06:19.Nigeria. Politicians in Rome have been demanding to know why their
:06:19. > :06:27.government wasn't consulted on the military operation, and why they
:06:27. > :06:32.were only informed once the action was taking place. We can speak now
:06:32. > :06:38.to our political correspondent, Iain Watson.
:06:38. > :06:41.He has been getting briefings. A general question, bring us up today
:06:41. > :06:47.on what we now know about this operation?
:06:47. > :06:51.Some of the details are not clear. I had a briefing for an hour with
:06:51. > :06:55.the Prime Minister's spokesman. He said some of the details are yet to
:06:55. > :07:00.emerge, he didn't want to give inaccurate information. What is
:07:00. > :07:06.clear is that the two hostages were killed in an operation which went
:07:06. > :07:10.on for some hours, as many as six or seven hours. That the British
:07:10. > :07:14.Prime Minister David Cameron gave his authorisation but the Italian
:07:14. > :07:19.Prime Minister was not asked for his authorisation at the same time.
:07:19. > :07:24.We have been told, I quote, from Downing Street, there have been
:07:24. > :07:29.close contacts with the Italians over nine months. It was always the
:07:29. > :07:34.case that a rescue operation was an option, but the Italians were
:07:34. > :07:37.conducted after the operation got under way, because it was a fast
:07:37. > :07:41.moving situation and they were responding to advice from what was
:07:41. > :07:46.happening on the ground. That is the official explanation from
:07:46. > :07:51.Downing Street. But the Italian government is saying this was
:07:51. > :07:57.inexplicable, and they want to get further clarification. What was
:07:57. > :08:03.interesting, in this long briefing, some a bit no clearer than we were
:08:03. > :08:06.last night. Apparently, no formal complaint has been lodged with the
:08:06. > :08:11.British Government by the Italians over how this was handled, no
:08:11. > :08:17.complaint was made to David Cameron when he spoke to Mario Monti last
:08:17. > :08:22.night. And Britain has offered simply an explanation, not an
:08:22. > :08:27.apology. So will there be a diplomatic row between Rome and
:08:27. > :08:32.London? Have we established from both Rome and London that the
:08:32. > :08:37.British and Nigerians went ahead, without informing the Italians? Is
:08:37. > :08:44.that now agreed on bedsides? That is agreed on their sides. It is
:08:44. > :08:48.clearly the case, what Downing Street has emphasised, this was a
:08:48. > :08:53.Nigerian led operation. But David Cameron was asked for his
:08:53. > :08:58.authorisation. The Italians were asked on a government to government
:08:58. > :09:03.basis after the operation got under way. The reason for that appears to
:09:03. > :09:07.be, as we are being told off the record, perhaps the hostages were
:09:07. > :09:16.felt to be in grave and imminent danger, and the events were fast
:09:16. > :09:20.moving. Then, we get into really questions of politics and diplomacy.
:09:20. > :09:26.If a rescue operation was always a possibility, did the Italians at
:09:26. > :09:30.any stage attempt to veto it? I am told they didn't. Could they have
:09:30. > :09:35.vetoed it when it went under way? I was told that might not have been
:09:35. > :09:39.possible had they tried. In fact, they didn't do so and again I have
:09:39. > :09:44.been told, if this was the other way around, if the British had been
:09:44. > :09:49.told after the operation got under way, rest assured British
:09:49. > :09:55.politicians would be kicking up a fuss. There is an understanding in
:09:55. > :10:01.diplomatic terms. You described it, I know the Nigerians were involved.
:10:01. > :10:07.You described it as a Nigerian led operation. Does that mean that the
:10:07. > :10:13.Nigerians were first in? Or, where British special forces the
:10:13. > :10:17.spearhead? We do not know that. On five separate occasions, we asked
:10:17. > :10:22.the prime ministers spokesman, he repeated the phrase, this was a
:10:22. > :10:29.Nigerian led operation, but did not give any details whether British
:10:29. > :10:34.forces arrived first. From what I have been picking up, it seems that,
:10:34. > :10:39.for some time, there was some information where the hostages were
:10:40. > :10:49.being held, and fears they may be in imminent danger if the cat has
:10:50. > :11:00.
:11:00. > :11:09.knew the whereabouts had been exposed -- -- the captors.
:11:09. > :11:13.Thanks for joining us on that. A lot still unknown here.
:11:13. > :11:17.Barack Obama. You have to be lucky in these things, taking these
:11:17. > :11:21.difficult decisions. Barack Obama got it right. David Cameron was
:11:21. > :11:26.unlucky and it turned out wrong. And that is part of leadership. We
:11:26. > :11:29.saw it with the deaths of the six soldiers in Afghanistan, one of the
:11:29. > :11:37.worst things about being a Prime Minster when you take decisions
:11:37. > :11:43.which leads to the death of your citizens. You don't launch a
:11:43. > :11:48.scrambled rescue mission unless you take a chance.
:11:48. > :11:52.Parents of the victims, that seems to be their attitude in their agony
:11:52. > :11:56.as well. The promise to was giving some
:11:56. > :12:01.interviews in an entirely unrelated matter yesterday afternoon. I am
:12:01. > :12:07.told by the people there, that this had got to him, he was devastated
:12:07. > :12:13.by the failure. I do not think he could have done much else. There
:12:13. > :12:18.are two main terrorist types in Nigeria. One of them is the type
:12:18. > :12:22.that kidnaps boiled eggs it is, for ransom, let them free. This is
:12:22. > :12:28.different. These are Islamist terrorists with a track record,
:12:28. > :12:34.they killed 40 people in a church on Christmas Day, 20 more people in
:12:34. > :12:39.a bomb. They have a record of killing people. David Cameron could
:12:39. > :12:42.have done no other. Not a good week for Britain given the events in
:12:42. > :12:45.Afghanistan. Later today, David Cameron will promise to tackle what
:12:45. > :12:48.he calls the "absurd barriers to mixed-race adoption", when he
:12:48. > :12:51.announces proposals to speed up the process. Under the plans, local
:12:51. > :12:54.authorities will be required to reduce delays, and not slow the
:12:54. > :12:57.process down by trying to find the perfect match. However, Matt
:12:57. > :13:07.Dunkley, the head of the Association of Directors of
:13:07. > :13:11.
:13:11. > :13:15.Children's Services, said that it's a difficult balancing act.
:13:15. > :13:20.Adoption is always complex because it has to revolve around the needs
:13:20. > :13:24.of the child. Finding a permanent home, changing the child's identity.
:13:24. > :13:28.You have to be very sure that the parents you are matching with the
:13:28. > :13:32.child are right for that child. Sometimes, you have to balance
:13:32. > :13:36.various factors to decide whether the quickest option is the best or
:13:36. > :13:40.whether you should wait longer for a family that would be a better
:13:41. > :13:45.match. It is not straightforward and each child's needs are
:13:45. > :13:50.individual. It is a complicated process. We can now speak to the
:13:50. > :13:57.Children's Minster, Tim Loughton, who's in Brighton.
:13:57. > :14:04.Thank you for joining us. Just summarise for our viewers what the
:14:04. > :14:08.major changes are going to be? We have been working on adoption
:14:08. > :14:12.for the past 18 months and next week we will publish a
:14:12. > :14:16.comprehensive adoption action plan. What David Cameron will detailed
:14:16. > :14:21.this afternoon is three particular things. Largely around the issue of
:14:22. > :14:24.delay. The first is delayed is a very important factor when the
:14:24. > :14:29.place children for adoption and the longer you delay, the more damage
:14:29. > :14:34.it can do to those children and the less likely that option is to
:14:34. > :14:40.succeed. In too many cases, social workers seem to be waiting for that
:14:40. > :14:46.perfect match, would it be an ethnic, cultural or racial match,
:14:46. > :14:50.and those children are staying in care. That is damaging. We need to
:14:50. > :14:54.improve the law to say the most important thing for finding a
:14:54. > :14:59.placement foray child for whom adoption is the right course, is to
:14:59. > :15:07.find a safe, loving, stable family. If we can find a perfect ethnic
:15:07. > :15:11.match, that is perfect but it should not be used as an excuse.
:15:11. > :15:16.What do you say to some of the professionals in this part of the
:15:16. > :15:22.public service, that the reason for delay is often because these are
:15:22. > :15:32.sensitive issues, they are complicated issues as well. And
:15:32. > :15:32.
:15:32. > :15:36.I agree with that. They are very complicated dishes. Matt Dunkley
:15:36. > :15:42.has been working closely with us on this. The most important
:15:42. > :15:46.consideration must be the best interests for the child. We think
:15:46. > :15:50.we cannot compromise the quality of the placements for a larger number
:15:50. > :15:55.of children who we think would benefit from adoption by speeding
:15:55. > :16:00.up the system. It is taking far too long and it is far too bureaucratic.
:16:00. > :16:04.We are deterring too many prospective adopters, who could all
:16:04. > :16:09.her children homes. In the care system, there are
:16:09. > :16:13.disproportionately black kids in particular, three times less likely
:16:13. > :16:18.than white kids to get adopted. When they are adopted, it takes
:16:18. > :16:23.twice as long to get them adopted. That is not fair, and it is not
:16:23. > :16:31.acceptable. We have to go reds of some of this political correctness.
:16:31. > :16:37.-- get rid of it. Is it your view that adoption services go out of
:16:37. > :16:42.their way to avoid placing a black kid with a white family? I think
:16:42. > :16:49.there is a bit of a hangover of that culture, going back many years.
:16:49. > :16:51.The vast majority of Social Workers, working in the Children's Services
:16:51. > :16:55.department have the best interests of children at heart and are doing
:16:55. > :16:59.a good job. But we see huge differentials between different
:16:59. > :17:03.local authorities and adoption agencies in how good they are at
:17:03. > :17:06.adopting children and how long it takes. The key point of what we're
:17:06. > :17:09.trying to achieve is trying to speed up the system in terms of
:17:09. > :17:14.finding appropriate families and identifying children when adoption
:17:14. > :17:17.is the best option, and getting the system to work better in the
:17:17. > :17:22.interests of the child. The children should not be left in
:17:22. > :17:27.limbo because the system is cumbersome. Stick with us and we
:17:27. > :17:30.will get some reaction from our guests. What is your take on this?
:17:30. > :17:35.I do not think anyone wants to see children in care longer than they
:17:35. > :17:41.have to be. It is ridiculous that it can take two and a half years
:17:41. > :17:45.from start to finish. You have to be careful not to throw the baby
:17:45. > :17:50.out of -- out with the bath water, to coin an appropriate phrase. That
:17:50. > :17:54.period of delay is not always about safeguarding the child, sometimes
:17:54. > :18:00.it is about knowing that the parents are to coping with what
:18:00. > :18:04.they have to copy -- cope with, perhaps taking a six year-old who
:18:04. > :18:08.might be very damaged back home with them. They have extensive mean
:18:08. > :18:11.sometimes. Finding families that cope with that is important. We do
:18:11. > :18:17.not want to end up in a place where the adoptions break down more
:18:17. > :18:21.regularly because there speedier. think the Minister was being very
:18:21. > :18:27.diplomatic. -- they are speedier. This is a rare case of
:18:27. > :18:30.Conservative-led coalition having the courage of its convictions and
:18:30. > :18:33.taking on one of the great shibboleths of the left-liberal
:18:33. > :18:40.establishment, which is this ludicrous notion that it is better
:18:40. > :18:46.to leave a black child without a loving family because of this
:18:47. > :18:51.theory, this bankrupt theory that somehow skin colour is more
:18:51. > :18:57.important than finding a fat -- finding a happy home. Are you being
:18:57. > :19:00.diplomatic, look Minister? I am always diplomatic, Andrew, but I am
:19:01. > :19:05.not concerned with political ideology. I am concerned with
:19:05. > :19:09.getting a better deal for children in care, and I think many more of
:19:09. > :19:13.them could benefit from the stability and love that comes with
:19:13. > :19:18.a decent adoptive placement. have 65,000 children in care at the
:19:18. > :19:23.moment. If your reforms go through, will we see that number fall
:19:23. > :19:28.substantially? I do not know. The numbers of children coming into
:19:28. > :19:31.care has been going up. We must remember that the great majority of
:19:31. > :19:35.those children are there temporarily and will return to
:19:35. > :19:39.their families. The number of children that I would like to see
:19:39. > :19:44.adopted, it is more than the 3050 who got adopted last year, and that
:19:44. > :19:49.number was down on the year before. I will not set any targets because
:19:49. > :19:52.this is all about getting the best deal for each individual child. The
:19:52. > :19:57.each have different circumstances. We believe that we can get better
:19:57. > :20:01.quality placements, more people coming in and offering a home to a
:20:01. > :20:05.child. That is a big ass, particularly with kids from
:20:05. > :20:12.difficult backgrounds, kids who are not getting picked up at the moment.
:20:12. > :20:19.We can do it quicker. Two months is 1% of a child's's childhood. All
:20:19. > :20:22.the evidence says that the sooner you can get a child adopted a, the
:20:22. > :20:32.more likely they are to have a successful adoption and a happy
:20:32. > :20:34.
:20:34. > :20:39.childhood. Thank you for joining us. Now, in under a couple of months,
:20:39. > :20:44.voters in 10 towns and cities across England would get to vote on
:20:44. > :20:48.whether they want a directly elected mayor. According to polling
:20:48. > :20:53.produced by two regions, many of them do not know a thing about it.
:20:53. > :20:56.In Birmingham, 59% of those polled said they did not know there was a
:20:56. > :21:01.referendum. Even though it was the first time many of them had heard
:21:01. > :21:05.of it, more than half thought that Birmingham should have a directly
:21:05. > :21:11.elected mayor. Although you might take this with a pinch of salt
:21:11. > :21:18.given the usual low turnout in local elections, 74% said that they
:21:18. > :21:23.planned to vote. Our West Midlands political reporter joins us now
:21:23. > :21:29.from Westminster where she is visiting. It is good to see when
:21:29. > :21:32.London. What is the mood like in Birmingham? -- see you in London.
:21:32. > :21:36.When you go out on the streets and ask people whether they want an
:21:36. > :21:40.elected mayor, they look at you with confusion. In my experience,
:21:40. > :21:44.they do not seem to know that this is happening. And then, when you
:21:44. > :21:47.explain it, they say they like the idea of having a porous in
:21:47. > :21:53.Birmingham. But the figures of the poll certainly suggest that that
:21:53. > :21:57.may be the case, not just anecdotally but wider afield. Six
:21:57. > :22:06.out of 10 people in Birmingham do not know this is happening. 54% are
:22:06. > :22:11.saying that they would vote for an elected mayor, but 23% say no and
:22:11. > :22:17.23 say that they do not care. sounds like if you know you're for
:22:17. > :22:20.it, and by definition if you do not know, you will not float, it looks
:22:20. > :22:25.like this could go through and Birmingham. -- you will not vote.
:22:25. > :22:28.The feeling you would get from the findings of this poll, and in terms
:22:28. > :22:33.of the campaigns we have seen, the Yes campaign has been very vocal.
:22:33. > :22:37.They are holding debates left, right and centre. There is one in
:22:37. > :22:45.Birmingham later this evening. All of these debates are going on, and
:22:45. > :22:49.the no campaign, they have an interesting name, they're called
:22:49. > :22:57."Vote No to power." They think the idea is been shot down people's
:22:57. > :23:00.throats. The Yes campaign is being pushed ahead. -- shoved down. They
:23:00. > :23:06.have more influence in terms of people being interested in this
:23:06. > :23:10.subject. When you ask people about it, they tell you that, yeah, be
:23:10. > :23:13.like the idea of leaders have been more power. The real question is
:23:13. > :23:17.whether they will have the powers that Boris has, because we do not
:23:17. > :23:23.know what powers an elected mayor in Birmingham would have. I think
:23:23. > :23:27.you better go and ask that question. In Yorkshire, voters will be asked
:23:27. > :23:32.if they want a mayor in Bradford, Doncaster, Leeds, Sheffield and
:23:32. > :23:39.Wakefield. According to the poll, 62%, even higher than Birmingham,
:23:39. > :23:42.had no Whitey about the vote on May 3rd. Again, there was a fair bit of
:23:42. > :23:47.support for the principle of directly-elected mayors. -- had no
:23:47. > :23:56.idea. As in Birmingham, a big proportion said they intended to
:23:57. > :24:01.vote. Seven de 1%, more than a general election. It appears that
:24:02. > :24:06.turnout -- it beats the turnout for the AV referendum and the last
:24:06. > :24:11.local elections. James Vincent is in Leeds. As in Birmingham, if you
:24:11. > :24:16.know about it, you seem to be in favour of it. It is strange. When
:24:16. > :24:20.you don't speak to people in Yorkshire, they think may has have
:24:20. > :24:24.chains around their neck and open up garden festivals. It has been
:24:24. > :24:29.interesting to explain what an elected mayor actually has to
:24:30. > :24:33.people. To say that 60% of people did not know about the referendum,
:24:33. > :24:38.actually 90% of people here say they have been given little or no
:24:38. > :24:42.information about the referendum whatsoever. There is an admission
:24:42. > :24:45.from the Government to explain exactly what they mean, and why
:24:45. > :24:50.they want cities to go for them. The problem they have in places
:24:50. > :24:54.like Sheffield, the politicians do not want it. Both sides, Labour and
:24:54. > :24:59.Lib Dem councillors agree that they do not want an elected mayor. It is
:24:59. > :25:08.one of the very few things they agree about. Thank you for that.
:25:08. > :25:12.Very interesting. I felt as if I was back on Nationwide again. Let's
:25:12. > :25:15.go back to London for some context with Tony Travers, visiting
:25:15. > :25:19.Professor at the London School of Economics and the man we turn to on
:25:19. > :25:23.matters to do with local government. Do you get the feeling that the
:25:23. > :25:27.time has come for this idea? might be. The polling is
:25:27. > :25:30.fascinating. We have not had this level of detail before. It suggests
:25:30. > :25:35.that even though there is a relatively low level of knowledge
:25:36. > :25:39.about whether the vote will take place, that it will take place, on
:25:39. > :25:47.balance people seem to be pretty strongly in favour, not only in
:25:47. > :25:49.another West Yorkshire cities. is interesting, what James is
:25:49. > :25:52.saying in Yorkshire, not many people know and those that do know
:25:52. > :25:59.rather like the idea. But the political establishment, left right
:25:59. > :26:04.and centre, does not want it. You're going to get a fight in a
:26:04. > :26:08.low turnout between the political establishment united in saying no
:26:08. > :26:16.and those who do want it are not going to vote in huge numbers.
:26:16. > :26:18.Possibly. There is no doubt that many politicians and cities are not
:26:18. > :26:23.enthusiastic about Mears because they think it will take power away
:26:24. > :26:26.from them and concentrated in one pair of hands. Of course, Tony
:26:27. > :26:31.Blair and David Cameron are a supporter. Michael Heseltine is a
:26:31. > :26:36.supporter. There is much national political support, from of a
:26:36. > :26:39.presidential politicians, for the idea of this role. The idea that as
:26:39. > :26:42.people go to vote, remembering that they will be voting in local
:26:42. > :26:48.elections anyway, they will then be faced with this question and
:26:48. > :26:52.whatever they think, they will have to make the choice. The polls
:26:52. > :26:58.suggest that on balance, they will vote yes. The supporters claim that
:26:58. > :27:02.if you believe in devolution, to the major English cities, towns and
:27:02. > :27:06.districts, the only sure way of getting things done is to have an
:27:06. > :27:11.elected mayor, to have someone around to that power can coalesce.
:27:11. > :27:13.It is easy to forget what a centralised country Englanders. It
:27:13. > :27:18.is one of the most centralised countries in the world. Scotland,
:27:18. > :27:21.Wales, Northern Ireland have devolved power... People in
:27:21. > :27:26.Scotland think it is very centralised in Edinburgh! That is
:27:26. > :27:29.also true. That being the case, what for England? We have seen in
:27:29. > :27:33.London, and there are mayors in other places, like Middlesbrough
:27:33. > :27:38.and Hartlepool, that have been very successful, if we had more Meyers
:27:38. > :27:41.in big cities, in many ways they could be more powerful in the City
:27:41. > :27:45.than the Mayor of London. True, it is not entirely clear what their
:27:45. > :27:49.powers are, but in a city like Birmingham or Leeds, and remember
:27:50. > :27:53.Liverpool has already decided to go for it, these people will have all
:27:53. > :27:59.the powers that London boroughs have, and some of the mayoral
:27:59. > :28:02.powers. It is going to be a powerful role and some MPs are
:28:02. > :28:06.thinking of leaving Westminster to stand in mayoral elections. That is
:28:06. > :28:12.a sign that they must think they will have power, more power than an
:28:12. > :28:16.MP. Is it true that if you get elected mayors, and they are
:28:16. > :28:21.regarded as a success, it is inevitable that more power will
:28:21. > :28:25.flow to them? It is certainly what has happened in London. Another
:28:25. > :28:35.city that now has won his Leicester. We have Leicester, Liverpool,
:28:35. > :28:36.
:28:36. > :28:41.Salford, I think when we have a separate big-city mayors, they will
:28:41. > :28:45.be a powerful base for demanding more powers, the new is that
:28:45. > :28:49.England will get to devolution. Where are you on this? I am in
:28:50. > :28:54.sympathy with the good people of Yorkshire, whose eyelids droop at
:28:54. > :28:57.the very mention of the word. I can see why people would not be
:28:57. > :29:01.necessarily grabbed by the idea because it is hard to know what
:29:01. > :29:04.you're choosing. You do not know the candidates, are they going to
:29:04. > :29:08.be washed up local politicians who have decided that the Westminster
:29:08. > :29:14.career are -- is not going anywhere or will they be transformative
:29:15. > :29:22.personalities? I think they have the capacity to serve as an -- a
:29:22. > :29:29.pressure valve, because the cry about Scottish independence will
:29:29. > :29:32.end up with a cry in England, where his England's voice? I think there
:29:32. > :29:36.is another reason why it is catching the imagination. One of
:29:36. > :29:40.the developments taking place in this country at the moment is
:29:40. > :29:44.London, Greater London and the south-east becoming more and more
:29:45. > :29:49.divorced from the rest of the country. It seems to me that one of
:29:49. > :29:53.the few ways you might rebalance that is to put real powerhouses
:29:53. > :29:57.into Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle. And there is a sense
:29:57. > :30:00.that the Government does not understand anything beyond London.
:30:00. > :30:06.The argument about mansion tax is all about London and the south-east.
:30:06. > :30:10.Benefit capping is about London. If you live in Leicester or Birmingham,
:30:10. > :30:14.you might not think anything about it. More direct democracy has to be
:30:14. > :30:19.a good thing in principle. If you look at the Scottish Parliament and
:30:19. > :30:24.Welsh Assembly, you wonder. But London has been a pretty obvious
:30:24. > :30:28.success. Is it Doncaster that has a very good mayor? I think Doncaster
:30:28. > :30:31.there has been a problem. But in fairness, it is because there was a
:30:31. > :30:35.political problem inside local politics that the mayor could not
:30:35. > :30:45.solve. But Middlesbrough, Hartlepool, Watford, these have all
:30:45. > :30:49.
:30:49. > :30:54.We have 14 elected mayors, I am told. But in Stoke-on-Trent, they
:30:54. > :30:58.have got rid of theirs! The mare was seen as a way of sorting out
:30:58. > :31:05.the political problems and it didn't work out, local politics was
:31:05. > :31:12.so difficult even a mayor could not solve it. He am I right in saying,
:31:12. > :31:16.do you agree with the point I made, it seems that London is becoming
:31:16. > :31:20.more and more divorced from the rest of the country? There is no
:31:20. > :31:24.question. If you look at the economic growth figures in London
:31:24. > :31:33.and the south east, the area has pulled away from the rest of the UK.
:31:33. > :31:38.The City, anything to do with it is dominant. I absolutely agree, a
:31:38. > :31:42.mare in Birmingham, Bristol, might create a counterbalance and their
:31:42. > :31:46.boys might be heard in the way that the London mayor has been
:31:46. > :31:53.successfully heard, for example, in bidding for transport resources. In
:31:53. > :31:58.that sense it would create a counterbalance. It would give the
:31:58. > :32:05.media a focal point on who speaks for each city. It would also create
:32:05. > :32:09.competition for London, which is no bad thing. I do think that the
:32:09. > :32:14.mayor of a big city like Birmingham or Leeds or Bristol would become a
:32:14. > :32:24.national political figure, much better than any MPs, or many MPs,
:32:24. > :32:27.
:32:27. > :32:30.dare I say. The Tomorrow, tens of thousands of
:32:30. > :32:32.people are expected to gather in Moscow, to protest against Vladimir
:32:32. > :32:34.Putin's victory in the presidential elections. International observers
:32:34. > :32:37.have alleged widespread vote rigging, although Mr Putin has
:32:38. > :32:40.claimed that, if violations had taken place, they had been too
:32:40. > :32:43.insignificant to influence the final results. In a moment, we'll
:32:43. > :32:49.get the thoughts of the former Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd, and
:32:49. > :32:55.former British Ambassador Tony Brenton. But first, we can go live
:32:55. > :32:59.to Moscow, to speak to our correspondent Daniel Sandford.
:32:59. > :33:04.Harvey's protests going to be significant? Are they a threat to
:33:04. > :33:08.the new President? I think that is the big question. We don't know the
:33:08. > :33:12.answer but we will get an idea tomorrow. If they go on
:33:12. > :33:17.consistently getting 100,000 people or more out on the streets of
:33:17. > :33:21.Moscow, it will keep up the pressure on President p 10 when he
:33:21. > :33:26.becomes President in May, and it will make sure, to my degree, he
:33:26. > :33:30.gives some of the democratic reform these people are seeking. But
:33:30. > :33:35.democracy in Russia it is a completely strange affair. This is
:33:35. > :33:42.a place which looks like a democracy but it really isn't. The
:33:42. > :33:47.TV channels are not giving balanced coverage. All opposition figures
:33:47. > :33:52.are squashed down. This is not a small matter of making sure that
:33:52. > :33:57.voting is more fair, this is a very big affair to try to reform, and it
:33:57. > :34:07.will take a long time for the protesters to achieve any results.
:34:07. > :34:07.
:34:07. > :34:12.One of the problems for you, you are closer to London in Moscow than
:34:12. > :34:18.to Vladivostok. And it is hard to know how hard -- of how widespread
:34:18. > :34:25.this is. Is it a Moscow phenomenon? It is essentially a Moscow
:34:25. > :34:29.phenomenon. There is a reasonable movement in St Petersburg. We have
:34:29. > :34:35.travelled across the country, and what we find is when you get two
:34:35. > :34:39.cities, you find small pockets of people who are following the
:34:39. > :34:45.protest movement on line, trying to get organised in their own cities.
:34:45. > :34:49.But it is much harder, and more dangerous further away from Moscow.
:34:49. > :34:57.People in Moscow feel less threatened by the authorities. If
:34:57. > :35:01.you are neurone, you are much more at risk from the local authority.
:35:01. > :35:10.We look forward to seeing your reports over the weekend. Douglas
:35:10. > :35:16.Hurd and Tony Brenton are with me now.
:35:16. > :35:25.Douglas Hurd, welcome to the programme, good to see you. Should
:35:25. > :35:28.the British attitude be, We know the dodgy things about the election
:35:29. > :35:33.but whatever happens, Vladimir Putin will be President. We must
:35:33. > :35:39.get on and deal with him. Of course we have to get on and deal with him,
:35:39. > :35:45.there is no doubt about that. But, the tone of voice has to reflect
:35:45. > :35:52.the fact we have a row with Russia, not just about human rights in
:35:52. > :35:59.general but eight particular episode. Therefore, we cannot be
:35:59. > :36:02.absolutely extreme in our response. Do you detect any change in Russian
:36:02. > :36:07.foreign policy? We have had some difficulties with them over Syria
:36:07. > :36:11.where they have blocked any progress in the United Nations
:36:11. > :36:16.Security Council. There are difficulties over Iran. They are
:36:16. > :36:21.hard line in confronting what we perceive to be Western interests.
:36:21. > :36:26.That is unlikely to change. It is very unlikely to change, that would
:36:26. > :36:31.involve him saying he had got something wrong in the recent past.
:36:31. > :36:39.They will be slow to acknowledge any fault. Ambassador, do we have
:36:39. > :36:45.any idea, he has never left the scene. He was President. His mate,
:36:45. > :36:50.some would say his puppet, became President one he was Prime Minister.
:36:50. > :36:59.He is back in the top seat. What are his strategic goals over the
:36:59. > :37:05.next six years? He is a Russian Padgett -- pitch yet, he wants to
:37:05. > :37:12.rebuild Russia and prosperity, pride, stability. And that, I am
:37:12. > :37:22.sure, remains the centre of what he wants to do. He is running out of
:37:22. > :37:23.
:37:23. > :37:28.people. One of Russia's problems is the population is going down.
:37:28. > :37:32.Western media, including the BBC, we give greater emphasis to these
:37:32. > :37:36.demonstrations on the streets of Moscow. We're not used to
:37:36. > :37:41.demonstrations in Russia. They clearly have some significance. Are
:37:41. > :37:46.we giving them too much significance? Are they
:37:46. > :37:51.overwhelmingly a cosmopolitan protest? Undoubtedly something
:37:51. > :37:56.profound in Russia has changed. You have the urban, young middle class
:37:56. > :38:03.on the streets saying, we want the same civic rights as in the west.
:38:03. > :38:09.We don't want corruption. That is a profound change. Some people have
:38:09. > :38:13.said, Vladimir Putin has only two years left. Even after the flawed
:38:13. > :38:20.elections, he retains the support of perhaps more than half the
:38:20. > :38:26.Russian people, and he knows it. he did win. Even though big parts
:38:26. > :38:30.of the elections were dodgy? undoubtedly one, and because he has
:38:30. > :38:37.brought prosperity and straight to Russia, he still remains Russia's
:38:37. > :38:44.most popular politician. He faces an awkward choice. He can carry on
:38:45. > :38:48.with corruption, top-down authoritarianism. But he has an
:38:48. > :38:55.alienated middle-class, which brought down governments in Korea,
:38:55. > :39:01.in Chile, and most recently in Egypt. He has looked at what has
:39:01. > :39:06.happened to President Mubarak, and didn't want that to happen to him.
:39:06. > :39:13.He will be looking at accommodating some of the demands. And there are
:39:13. > :39:20.signs of him identifying ways. The Parliament, opening up the
:39:20. > :39:28.electoral system. There has been a move by Dmitry Medvedev, to look
:39:28. > :39:32.again at the sentence on the oligarch in prison. That may not
:39:32. > :39:37.mean anything, but if it does, it is a sign he is beginning to look
:39:37. > :39:40.for some accommodation with his new social movement as a way of moving
:39:40. > :39:50.Russia a bit more in the direction we want to see it. The other way he
:39:50. > :39:51.
:39:51. > :39:57.could take is the Syrian way, lock them down, lock them up. Ex KGB,
:39:57. > :40:02.the best and bright Russians joined the KGB. He certainly could pursue
:40:02. > :40:05.the Syrian route. I don't think he wants to be casinos the costs he
:40:05. > :40:09.brings to the country which he loves. He can't be confident it
:40:09. > :40:15.would work. There have been security men among the
:40:15. > :40:19.demonstrators, famously back in August 1991. That failed is because
:40:19. > :40:24.the Army would not go into the White House. There is a limit to
:40:24. > :40:30.the extent to which he can rely on his security forces. The cover
:40:30. > :40:34.story of the Economist, one of our more serious public issues, said
:40:34. > :40:39.this was the beginning of the end of Vladimir Putin. Everything is
:40:39. > :40:47.the beginning of the end of something. That is life. There
:40:47. > :40:53.speaks a man from experience! he has got a long way to run.
:40:54. > :41:00.there for six years. The Russians will get fed up with him after a
:41:00. > :41:10.time. That is the nature of it. They're quite expert at endurance,
:41:10. > :41:17.the Russians. I doubt if anyone will remove him by force. I think
:41:17. > :41:22.people will go on ensuring. It is a presidential system. Personality
:41:22. > :41:26.matters. He is the biggest personality in Russia today. How
:41:26. > :41:31.does an alternative personality emerge? That is the problem. The
:41:31. > :41:35.problem of authoritarian rulers is the exit problem, protecting
:41:35. > :41:39.yourself from the people you have alienated one you have been ruling.
:41:39. > :41:45.How you break up a successor who does not become a threat. Vladimir
:41:45. > :41:51.Putin I think genuinely intended to go away, in 2008. But decided he
:41:51. > :42:00.hadn't solved the problem enough. So you think this wasn't a
:42:00. > :42:08.cynical... Let us be clear. In 2007, there were clear signs he had had
:42:09. > :42:14.enough, he didn't like meeting ambassadors, he wanted to enjoyed -
:42:14. > :42:18.- enjoy being a former President. But his whole system virtually fell
:42:18. > :42:23.apart and it became clear he had to stay as the linchpin, so he
:42:23. > :42:28.installed Dmitri Medvedev as a stop gap. Now he is back with the same
:42:28. > :42:32.problem of passing things on in such a manner that he can be
:42:33. > :42:37.confident. Another way of dealing with it, he could set himself to
:42:37. > :42:41.root out corruption. Is that a feasible thing in Russia? It is
:42:41. > :42:46.very hard, corruption goes very high in the Russian system. It is
:42:46. > :42:56.part of the way Russia works. But one hopes there will be moves in
:42:56. > :42:59.
:42:59. > :43:02.that direction. Dmitry Medvedev did a bit in that direction.
:43:02. > :43:04.Liberal Democrats are heading to Gateshead today, for their party's
:43:04. > :43:07.spring conference. This time last year, delegates voted against the
:43:07. > :43:10.government's health bill, a vote which they say was responsible for
:43:10. > :43:13.the much-heralded pause in the process. Lib Dem conference
:43:13. > :43:16.delegates aren't known for giving their leaders an easy ride. Last
:43:16. > :43:19.year, they voted that the party's MPs should resist the health bill's
:43:19. > :43:22."damaging and unjustified market- based approach". Despite many
:43:22. > :43:25.changes, this year, some delegates want to vote on a new motion that
:43:25. > :43:29.calls for the "deeply flawed" bill to be withdrawn altogether. Members
:43:29. > :43:32.also want the party to confirm its backing for a mansion tax, with no
:43:32. > :43:37.sign that they're prepared to compromise with their coalition
:43:37. > :43:47.partners. And it's not just their own party leader that delegates
:43:47. > :43:47.
:43:47. > :43:50.have in their sights. A motion on Europe says that David Cameron
:43:50. > :43:53."imperilled British influence in Europe, and thereby in the wider
:43:53. > :43:57.world" when he wielded the veto in December. Earlier today, former Lib
:43:57. > :44:07.Dem MP Evan Harris told us why he now thought the health bill should
:44:07. > :44:17.
:44:17. > :44:21.be dropped, despite the amendments that have been agreed.
:44:21. > :44:26.While some changes have been made, it is quite clear that the majority
:44:26. > :44:33.in fact of the calls in the Liberal Democrat motion exactly a year ago
:44:33. > :44:36.have not been delivered, and on that basis, the government have not
:44:36. > :44:40.listened to the Lib Dems and the Lib Dems should recognise that this
:44:40. > :44:44.Bill will therefore be bad for the health service, does not represent
:44:44. > :44:50.Liberal Democrats's approval to go beyond the coalition agreement,
:44:50. > :44:54.which was always what was agreed by the Liberal Democrats. And is also
:44:54. > :44:58.politically extremely bad news for the Lib Dems and indeed for that
:44:58. > :45:02.matter for the Conservatives. The best thing to do would be for a
:45:02. > :45:06.line to be drawn under this matter by the Bill now longer proceeding.
:45:06. > :45:10.I think there are huge numbers of people in the Liberal Democrats to
:45:10. > :45:13.recognise this Bill is bad for the health service, it hasn't got a
:45:13. > :45:18.Liberal Democrat party approval, and is politically very damaging.
:45:18. > :45:22.The question will be whether they will be persuaded by the leadership
:45:22. > :45:26.that the least damaging thing is to keep with this flawed Bill. I'd
:45:26. > :45:29.think it will be a close debate and I hope the Liberal Democrat
:45:30. > :45:33.representatives will look at the detail of what Liberal Democrats
:45:33. > :45:39.have said before, the detail of what the healthcare professionals
:45:39. > :45:43.say, since this is a friendless Bill, and look at the prospects
:45:43. > :45:50.politically for us being tied to a policy that is not in the coalition
:45:50. > :45:54.Listening to that with some mirth on his face, joining us from
:45:54. > :46:03.Newcastle is the Liberal Democrat local government minister, Andrew
:46:03. > :46:07.Stunnell, beautifully framed by the bridges of Newcastle. Let me come
:46:07. > :46:13.straight to the point. If the conference votes to ditch the Bill
:46:13. > :46:17.altogether, what happens? First of all, I'm told that it is Gateshead,
:46:18. > :46:22.Newcastle, I have to be very careful to say the right words. I
:46:22. > :46:26.have to say, I listened to Evan a very carefully and I seldom agreed
:46:26. > :46:34.with him as a Member of Parliament and they do not agree with them now.
:46:34. > :46:38.The Bill is fundamentally different to what it used to be. It is now
:46:38. > :46:42.the Bill that I believe should be passed. We will see how the debate
:46:42. > :46:45.goes and I am sure it will be lively. But I know that some very
:46:45. > :46:50.important figures in the party, including Shirley Williams, will
:46:50. > :46:52.say that this is the right Bill to pass and I hope very much that is
:46:52. > :47:00.what representatives to come from across the country decide to
:47:00. > :47:04.support. Let it take it as read that it is a different Bill and
:47:04. > :47:08.that Shirley Williams has got many of the changes, and that even she
:47:08. > :47:13.thinks it is time to proceed as amended, let us take that as a
:47:13. > :47:16.given for the sake of this question. If the party conference decides
:47:16. > :47:22.that they do not want the Bill and they fought against it, they vote
:47:22. > :47:26.for ditching it, what happens? guess there will be a good deal of
:47:26. > :47:30.talking but of course, the fact of the matter is that it is for MPs
:47:30. > :47:34.and Lords in Parliament to decide what legislation goes through.
:47:34. > :47:38.Clearly, last year there were some very serious concerns expressed and
:47:38. > :47:44.there was a pause, which was agreed across the coalition. In much
:47:44. > :47:48.better Bill is emerging now. -- a much better. I believe that is what
:47:48. > :47:53.we will see at the end of the process. Nobody disputes that there
:47:53. > :47:56.is a need to reform the NHS, to get people to the front line, to get
:47:56. > :48:00.public health back to local councils and to get more decisions
:48:00. > :48:08.taken by clinicians about health and how it is delivered, rather
:48:08. > :48:10.than managers at the back. That is what this Bill is setting out to do.
:48:10. > :48:15.Despite the Lib Dem tradition of listening carefully to their
:48:15. > :48:19.activists, and the activists have been the power of policy, it is the
:48:19. > :48:25.reality we were in government, particularly in coalition, I would
:48:25. > :48:28.suggest, that in the end a spring conference of your party cannot
:48:28. > :48:32.determined exactly what your health policy should be, you have to go
:48:32. > :48:36.ahead with his Bill. What happened last year demonstrates that you
:48:36. > :48:41.were not entirely right, but absolutely it is the case that MPs
:48:41. > :48:46.and members of the House of Lords are not poppets. We are there to
:48:46. > :48:50.exercise our judgment and I think you will find that that is what we
:48:50. > :48:58.will do. But let's speak... If push comes to shove, you are ready to
:48:58. > :49:02.defy the conference? You were prepared to defy the conference?
:49:02. > :49:07.do not think we will be defined a conference. Let us wait and see how
:49:07. > :49:11.the debate comes, let us see how it pans out on Sunday. It will be
:49:11. > :49:14.lively but I believe that the very common sense approach that we are
:49:14. > :49:19.taking will be the one which will prevail. You have another motion
:49:19. > :49:23.before you, produced by a member of the Federal Council, which is that
:49:23. > :49:29.Britain should sign up to the fiscal union pact that has been
:49:29. > :49:34.pushed by Germany and France. How will that go down? It will be
:49:34. > :49:39.interesting to see. Of course, that is not going to be binding one way
:49:39. > :49:43.or another on the government of the country, but I think that shows
:49:43. > :49:46.that this was a business partnership, the coalition is a
:49:47. > :49:49.business partnership. The Conservatives agreed that we would
:49:49. > :49:53.not go backwards as far as our European relations were concerned
:49:53. > :49:57.and we agreed that we would not call for her word -- go forward,
:49:57. > :50:01.and that is precisely where the agreement takes us. We will have to
:50:01. > :50:09.go sideways because we are about to lose the line. Andrew Stunnell,
:50:09. > :50:13.thank you for joining us. I got the impression, listening to
:50:13. > :50:18.the Minister, that they do not want the boat to go against them,
:50:18. > :50:25.obviously, but even if it does, they will tough it out. I think
:50:25. > :50:29.they think that the mood among activists is not necessarily to
:50:29. > :50:35.kill it stone dead but for a few more concessions, to take more out
:50:35. > :50:38.of the other half. They are probably right. There was a poll
:50:38. > :50:43.done by a Lib Dem grassroots website that found opposition not
:50:43. > :50:47.as high as thought. Most of them wanted more concessions. A wonder
:50:47. > :50:51.how much this is motivated by wider considerations. Clearly, for the
:50:51. > :50:59.kind of people who go to a spring confidence -- spring conference,
:50:59. > :51:03.you have to be pretty dedicated. They're pretty much root and branch
:51:03. > :51:06.Lib Dems. To make a song and dance about this is a metaphor for making
:51:06. > :51:12.a song and dance about a coalition with the Conservatives in which
:51:12. > :51:16.they are not happy. I think they have done pretty well for
:51:16. > :51:19.themselves. Tim Farron is boasting about the fact that three-quarters
:51:19. > :51:24.of their manifesto is now government policy. I think they
:51:24. > :51:27.would be entitled to stage a triumphal entry into Gateshead do
:51:27. > :51:31.with Nick Clegg in purple and members of the Tory party being
:51:31. > :51:37.tried in chains behind them, to be ritually strangled in celebration
:51:37. > :51:44.of the Lib Dem triumph. I could see a leading that sort of thing. While
:51:44. > :51:52.we have been talking about that, we have some news. Eric Joyce, the
:51:52. > :51:56.Labour MP who got into a bit of a fractious -- fracas in a bar in the
:51:56. > :52:02.Commons, he has pled guilty this morning in court and has been
:52:02. > :52:06.sentenced to community service, 12 months. He may not enter any bar
:52:06. > :52:13.premises for three months or licensed restaurants or off-
:52:13. > :52:18.licences. He has been fined �3,000, compensation of �350 each of his --
:52:18. > :52:25.to each of his four victims. He may not leave the UK until 9th
:52:25. > :52:27.September of this year, and the judge has imposed a curfew from
:52:27. > :52:37.Friday to Sunday, covering the weekend, indoors from 8pm until for
:52:37. > :52:39.
:52:39. > :52:49.a am, for four months until July 9th. -- 4am. No wild lights for
:52:49. > :52:52.Eric Joyce. -- wild night. Time for a week in 60 seconds.
:52:53. > :52:58.Vince Cable gave us an insight into budget negotiations when he said he
:52:58. > :53:01.would be prepared to let be 50p top rate of tax be abolished if a
:53:01. > :53:05.mansion tax was introduced instead. Would you get your way? We will
:53:05. > :53:10.wait and see. MPs from all sidelined up to give the Queen a
:53:10. > :53:13.humble Address as she began her Jubilee celebrations. The father of
:53:13. > :53:22.the House led the celebrations by revealing how the Queen maintained
:53:22. > :53:29.her stamina. By not eating salads, shellfish and watermelon while
:53:29. > :53:36.travelling. The EU got itself into another mess. Not over its finances
:53:36. > :53:41.but because of a Lews Castle kill Bill style video made by a young
:53:41. > :53:46.people. After accusations of racism, the video was withdrawn. And the
:53:46. > :53:54.spoof Twitter account although David Cameron's strategy adviser
:53:54. > :53:59.signed off. He told us he had left the wigwam. -- left the wigwam of
:53:59. > :54:04.trust. We are already missing that wigwam of trust, and the jacuzzi of
:54:04. > :54:14.justice. I think we should look again at that EU video. Roll the
:54:14. > :54:14.
:54:14. > :54:56.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:54:56. > :55:01.It's the way they tell them. Let's get some expert opinion on this.
:55:01. > :55:04.What on earth possessed them to do that? And madness, I think. The
:55:05. > :55:12.question I was asked is, is a racist. I think the answer is, it
:55:12. > :55:16.is not racist but it is gibberish. It is terrible. Did not occur, I
:55:16. > :55:23.can see you could make too much of the racism aspect, but did it not
:55:23. > :55:30.occur to them that having a vulnerable white woman surrounded
:55:30. > :55:34.by a fierce looking black and brown and might not be seen as just
:55:34. > :55:38.slightly racist? Yes, it is remarkable that it did not. I
:55:38. > :55:42.cannot believe it. Someone should have said, maybe we should not do
:55:42. > :55:52.this. You would have thought voices of reason would prevail but the
:55:52. > :55:56.
:55:56. > :56:03.problem is it is a classic tada ad, which means that for the first few
:56:03. > :56:06.seconds you do not know what it is about. What is it about? I think it
:56:06. > :56:10.is saying that the Europe -- European Union is capable of
:56:10. > :56:14.dealing with its enemies. But that comes back to the point that it
:56:14. > :56:19.depicts our enemies has been fierce looking black and brown man. Which
:56:19. > :56:24.is ridiculous. A whole thing is misconceived. -- Brown man. They
:56:24. > :56:29.spent a few bob on this, I would suggest. Our money. Our money. It
:56:29. > :56:33.is hard to believe that anyone could justify that, because the
:56:33. > :56:37.audience who would respond to this in any way must be tiny. Foreign
:56:37. > :56:41.Minister has perhaps? Who will see it, it is not running on TV.
:56:41. > :56:46.whole thing is pointless. Other than that anybody would even dream
:56:46. > :56:50.of doing this, the most surprising thing for me is that the European
:56:50. > :56:52.Commission, or whatever part of it did this, which is the most
:56:52. > :56:57.politically or deny it -- politically-correct organisation in
:56:57. > :57:01.the world, did not see this. Do you remember the no pressure video
:57:01. > :57:06.where the school children exploded at the touch of a button to raise
:57:06. > :57:10.awareness of climate change? This is an epic fail in the same way,
:57:10. > :57:15.people so blinded by their ideological cause that they cannot
:57:15. > :57:18.see how crass their product is. knew we would get at Eurosceptics
:57:18. > :57:22.then on that! It is an open goal for them. I am not going to sit
:57:23. > :57:27.here and defend that advert, it is ridiculous and I do not think
:57:27. > :57:32.anyone should. It is a classic example of the EU in action. As a
:57:32. > :57:37.reporter, I always thought it was never less pro-European than when
:57:37. > :57:41.you were in Brussels. He Tony Blair felt like this! This is not
:57:41. > :57:47.anything you can stand up and defend. -- Tony Blair felt like
:57:47. > :57:52.that. There is the idea that we are stronger when we Act in concert and
:57:52. > :57:56.when we Act alone, and presumably when we Act in matters other than
:57:56. > :58:02.when people run at us with swords, that is a defensible concept. In a
:58:02. > :58:05.networked world, in a tiny country like ours, we are no longer be
:58:05. > :58:09.ranking military power and our economy is flatlining, what do we
:58:09. > :58:15.have to say for ourselves? That is not a bad arguments to make. Why
:58:15. > :58:19.now? Now is not a brilliant time to sell people on the idea of Europe.
:58:19. > :58:27.Someone had a budget to spend. they spent it. You should bid for
:58:27. > :58:32.the next contract. I think so. could do better than that! Think
:58:32. > :58:36.you very much. That is it for today. Thank you to her guests, for being
:58:36. > :58:40.with us for the duration. -- our guests. The One o'clock News is
:58:40. > :58:46.about to start on BBC One and I will be back on Sunday with the
:58:46. > :58:50.Sunday politics as usual. This time, it is that the earlier time of
:58:50. > :58:54.11:00am on Sunday morning. BBC One. I will have the welfare secretary,