:00:43. > :00:47.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Rebekah Brooks and
:00:47. > :00:50.her husband are arrested by police investigating phone hacking at News
:00:50. > :00:54.International. They are among six people arrested in the early hours
:00:54. > :00:58.of this morning. We will have the latest.
:00:58. > :01:02.The relationship is special after all. Last year they flip burgers in
:01:03. > :01:11.the Downing Street garden. Tonight they will go to a basketball game
:01:11. > :01:17.in her while, as swing state. -- in Ohio, the swing state.
:01:17. > :01:21.And top of their agenda will be Afghanistan, following the horrific
:01:21. > :01:26.killings by erode US soldier. Has the course of the war changed
:01:26. > :01:34.forever? Come fly with the Daily Politics,
:01:34. > :01:38.as we examine the arguments for and against airport extension.
:01:38. > :01:42.All that in the next hour and with us for the duration, Digby Jones,
:01:42. > :01:46.former director general of the CBI and a trade minister in Gordon
:01:47. > :01:50.Brown's Government but I promised I would not remind him of that. I
:01:50. > :01:55.think I just have! Before that, the breaking news that
:01:55. > :01:59.happened after you had read your morning papers. The former chief
:01:59. > :02:03.executive of News International, Rebekah Brooks, and her husband,
:02:03. > :02:07.the racing trainer and Prime Minister's friend, Charlie Brooks,
:02:07. > :02:17.have been arrested as part of the on-going investigation into firm
:02:17. > :02:17.
:02:18. > :02:22.hacking. They are among his six -- of their own hacking. They are
:02:22. > :02:26.among six suspects that have been arrested. She has been arrested
:02:27. > :02:30.before. What is it this time? first time she was arrested was in
:02:30. > :02:33.July last year, when she was arrested on suspicion of
:02:33. > :02:38.involvement in phone hacking. This time it is on suspicion of
:02:38. > :02:42.conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. She has actually been
:02:42. > :02:46.arrested a third time previously also by police investigating
:02:46. > :02:50.allegations of payments to police officers. Third time for Rebekah
:02:50. > :02:54.Brooks. For the other people arrested today, this is the first
:02:54. > :02:58.time they have been arrested, so these are new names. We do not have
:02:58. > :03:02.the names of four of them at the moment but the other person is
:03:02. > :03:08.Charlie Brooks, the racecourse train and husband of Rebekah Brooks.
:03:08. > :03:11.He first entered the phone hacking saga last summer, during the select
:03:11. > :03:16.committee hearings which Rupert Murdoch appeared in front of, and
:03:16. > :03:19.which generated headlines. At that time there was a small story that
:03:20. > :03:23.appeared in the media, which reported that police had been
:03:23. > :03:26.called to an underground car park near the home of Rebekah Brooks and
:03:26. > :03:31.Charlie Brooks, where laptop belonging to him and some other
:03:31. > :03:35.items had been recovered from a litter bin. This is the first time
:03:35. > :03:39.that he entered the saga but this is the first time he has been
:03:40. > :03:44.arrested. That changes the nature of what is going on. I understand
:03:45. > :03:49.if you cannot answer this difficult question. There has been a lot of
:03:49. > :03:54.arrests, including Rebekah Brooks, three times. Can your sources give
:03:54. > :03:59.you any indication yet whether any of these arrests will be turned
:04:00. > :04:05.into charges? Frankly, if charges are to follow, and that is and if
:04:05. > :04:08.at the moment, then that is likely to happen in the next couple of
:04:08. > :04:12.months. 44 people have been arrested in total. The total number
:04:13. > :04:17.of arrests is actually higher because some of them, like Rebekah
:04:17. > :04:22.Brooks, have been arrested twice. We have seen the expansion of the
:04:22. > :04:27.inquiry, not just phone hacking but computer hacking and police bribery.
:04:27. > :04:29.And not just journalists and police officers. Recently we saw the
:04:29. > :04:36.arrest of a Ministry of Defence worker and a member of the armed
:04:36. > :04:39.forces. So the net is widening, if you like. We presume all of their
:04:39. > :04:43.innocence until proved otherwise and that is how our system works.
:04:43. > :04:48.Am I right in thinking that if you are charged with perverting the
:04:48. > :04:54.course of justice, then that is a much more serious charge than phone
:04:54. > :04:59.hacking? Yes, it is. That would incur a serious prison sentence. So
:04:59. > :05:03.would phone hacking, depending on the severity of the crime. It all
:05:03. > :05:07.has to go through the court and we will see. In theory these carry
:05:07. > :05:11.prison terms. We don't know what the substance of the suspicions are,
:05:11. > :05:17.if you like, as they relate to the conspiracy to pervert the course of
:05:17. > :05:22.justice. But that is a serious crime and a serious allegation.
:05:22. > :05:31.Thank you very much. Fascinating stuff. 44 arrests so far, some of
:05:31. > :05:37.them double of course, or triple in Rebecca -- Rebekah Brooks's case.
:05:37. > :05:44.Now, David Cameron has set off for Washington, lucky guy. So has John
:05:44. > :05:48.Pienaar. Great to see you with the white -- White House and the
:05:48. > :05:52.Jefferson monument, my favourite monument in all of Washington. Am I
:05:52. > :05:56.right in thinking that both David Cameron and Barack Obama must be
:05:56. > :06:00.thinking privately if not publicly how to get out of Afghanistan even
:06:00. > :06:04.quicker than we were planning? think they have been thinking about
:06:04. > :06:08.getting out as quickly as possible for quite a while. The military
:06:08. > :06:13.chiefs in Washington and in London have at times been worried about
:06:13. > :06:17.the invasions of their leaders and whether it squared with what the
:06:17. > :06:25.military want to achieve. Since the killings at the weekend, the
:06:25. > :06:30.arguments have fled in Washington. One of the Republican runners, mood
:06:30. > :06:34.Gingrich, has been talking about it being not possible to win. -- Newt
:06:35. > :06:37.Gingrich. Opinion polls in America reflect those in Britain, that
:06:37. > :06:42.people do not understand the mission in Afghanistan and simply
:06:42. > :06:46.want to get out. That adds up to political pressure. The two leaders
:06:46. > :06:51.will be stressing that it is all about completing a mission and
:06:51. > :06:56.handing over responsibility for policing and security in
:06:56. > :07:00.Afghanistan to the police there. The deadline of 2014 will not
:07:00. > :07:06.change, but the leaders will want the public to see that troops on
:07:06. > :07:09.their way back. It is clear that David Cameron would like to get out
:07:09. > :07:15.as soon as is respectable. Barack Obama is under more pressure
:07:15. > :07:19.because he has got an election this year. It would be popular if he was
:07:19. > :07:24.to announce some kind of speed up. Keep the 2014 deadline, but move
:07:24. > :07:29.more quickly to get the bulk of the soldiers out. Yes. I don't think
:07:29. > :07:33.they will speed up the timetable, but that will be apparent and it
:07:33. > :07:43.already is apparent as one of Barack Obama's wishes. Just as it
:07:43. > :07:43.
:07:43. > :07:46.is in -- apparent that the public want to see that as well. From the
:07:46. > :07:51.right of Republican Party, through the Democrats, through the public,
:07:51. > :07:55.that is the wish. That will be coming through loud and clear, but
:07:55. > :08:00.neither David Cameron or Barack Obama wants to be accused of
:08:00. > :08:04.cutting and running. They will have to square that. The political
:08:04. > :08:10.pressure is pretty apparent. city that you are in has woken up
:08:10. > :08:13.to a joint article by the President and the Prime Minister in the
:08:13. > :08:18.Washington Post. Other than the usual flannel, if I can put it that
:08:18. > :08:24.way, is there something interesting in it? They are setting out their
:08:24. > :08:29.agenda. Afghanistan, the shared objectives. Iran, a huge story
:08:29. > :08:33.around the world. It is a big issue in Washington. Listening to a
:08:33. > :08:38.senior Democrat, the chair of the defence committee, the other night
:08:38. > :08:42.he was saying that the strike on Iran's nuclear facilities was very
:08:42. > :08:46.likely to happen. Maybe not in the coming days and weeks but it was
:08:46. > :08:50.certainly likely in months. America's involvement, however
:08:50. > :08:55.tangential, is very much being discussed. That will be discussed
:08:55. > :08:59.between David Cameron and Barack Obama. Syria, it goes without
:08:59. > :09:04.saying, is big on the agenda. And the economy, is big on everybody's
:09:04. > :09:07.agenda. The leaders will be shoulder to shoulder, to use the
:09:07. > :09:11.old cliche, because they are both putting pressure on eurozone
:09:11. > :09:16.leaders to act more quickly. That might upset Nicolas Sarkozy yet
:09:16. > :09:19.again but you can't please everyone. We can't because we are at the BBC,
:09:20. > :09:23.but am I right in thinking that some people are speculating that
:09:23. > :09:32.David Cameron would be quite happy to see the re-election of Barack
:09:32. > :09:35.Obama when he looks at the Republican field? Maybe so! I think
:09:36. > :09:41.Barack Obama is still in pole position to win the election. There
:09:41. > :09:45.is no guarantee of that and that is very clear as well. In swing states,
:09:45. > :09:49.the Republicans are doing really rather well. The approval of the
:09:49. > :09:53.Barack Obama economic policy is really quite poor. Something like
:09:53. > :09:57.60% of people are not convinced on the last opinion poll that I saw.
:09:57. > :10:03.But you would bet if you had to that Barack Obama will be there and
:10:03. > :10:08.you will but that Downing Street is making the same essential. -- you
:10:08. > :10:11.would bet. They will be lapping up the plush red carpet that is coming
:10:11. > :10:16.David Cameron's way. We are not just talking about a flight on Air
:10:16. > :10:19.Force One, which no other leader has done, but the basketball, two
:10:19. > :10:23.mates out for the evening. There will be several thousand people at
:10:23. > :10:29.the White House greeting David Cameron. There is a banquet of
:10:29. > :10:37.thousands of people including the actor Damian Lewis, big in the
:10:37. > :10:43.Homeland to the show and an old Etonian. All of that will be going
:10:43. > :10:47.on. -- television show. It is priceless for David Cameron, and it
:10:47. > :10:51.will do him no harm at all. And if it turns out that a Republican wins
:10:51. > :10:55.the presidential race, I don't think they will be breaking down in
:10:55. > :10:59.tears about it because after all they know the Republicans will be
:10:59. > :11:03.on the side of a Conservative Prime Minister who supports public
:11:03. > :11:07.spending cuts and is an ally on the military front. They can build
:11:07. > :11:11.those bridges if they have to but for now they will be enjoying this
:11:11. > :11:15.connection with Barack Obama. you. Enjoy the rest of your work
:11:15. > :11:25.there. For the legal it, I think he has
:11:25. > :11:26.
:11:26. > :11:32.just given away the answer to our competition! -- for those that were
:11:32. > :11:35.listening. And with the White House in the background, built by slaves,
:11:35. > :11:40.with Scottish stonemasons and burnt by the British then rebuilt after
:11:40. > :11:49.1812. How would you categorise Anglo-American relations at the
:11:49. > :11:57.moment? Good. I don't see any major falling-out. I think that Barack
:11:57. > :11:59.Obama has spread his net more widely. There is a special
:11:59. > :12:02.relationship, other than intelligence sharing. We have
:12:02. > :12:07.always thought there is one, but the Americans have never really
:12:07. > :12:11.acted on it. When I was trade minister for the last Government,
:12:11. > :12:17.which by the way I am the only minister that never belonged to the
:12:17. > :12:22.party politics... I thought you might get that in! I did it for
:12:22. > :12:25.Britain and trade. When I was in America, Americans have never
:12:25. > :12:30.treated the British with the special relationship in terms of
:12:30. > :12:34.trade. I think John Pienaar's summary of it was excellent. There
:12:34. > :12:44.will be a subliminal thing of Let's Get More business and trade going
:12:44. > :12:45.
:12:45. > :12:51.as the two a economies start falling. There is a systemic change
:12:52. > :12:59.taking place in America's concerns. When it was the defeat of the Nazis,
:12:59. > :13:02.then the Cold War, and Europe was the crucible of the world's great
:13:02. > :13:07.fascists, then Britain and America were side to side. The biggest
:13:07. > :13:12.concern that America has today is the rise of China, and Britain is
:13:12. > :13:18.almost entirely irrelevant in that respect. So they are looking to
:13:18. > :13:21.their West. Yes, and what is more, if Britain is fabulously engaged
:13:21. > :13:29.with this open economy, if it is going to make it then it will make
:13:29. > :13:35.it by going East itself, going to Ager. -- are going to Asia. The
:13:35. > :13:39.biggest investor in Britain is still America and vice versa so
:13:39. > :13:43.there is still something there. On the Afghanistan point, you have
:13:43. > :13:47.raised this before and I am glad that you do, what does victory look
:13:47. > :13:51.like? You can tell a grieving mother that he laid down his life
:13:51. > :13:55.in the Falkland Islands to three people. He lay down his life in
:13:56. > :14:00.Germany to free Europe from the Nazis. What do you say? At the end
:14:00. > :14:04.of the day, we know that there will be a deal with the Taliban. Hamid
:14:04. > :14:07.Karzai is already banning women walking around in public. Victory
:14:07. > :14:14.is not something that will look very pretty. The more young people
:14:14. > :14:17.that died, the more the public will ask what it is in a door. I also
:14:17. > :14:21.hope he brings this up. While he is walking down the red carpet,
:14:21. > :14:25.sitting in Air Force One, having the banquet, there is a British
:14:25. > :14:30.person in solitary confinement in a jail in America without charge. He
:14:30. > :14:35.is not able to defend himself. He has been set because of the British
:14:35. > :14:39.Government's kowtow to the extradition treaty. He is not the
:14:39. > :14:44.first and I think there will be many. I would like David Cameron to
:14:44. > :14:48.change the law on this in Britain and sorry, Barack Obama, that will
:14:48. > :14:55.make it tricky for your guide to come over before we extradite
:14:55. > :15:00.people. -- your guys. I was brought up that people are innocent until
:15:00. > :15:05.proven guilty, but the extradition treaty is the opposite. We will see.
:15:05. > :15:11.I would not hold your breath. I don't know why I am saying that,
:15:11. > :15:15.but I will. I don't know why we are bothering with this, but this is
:15:15. > :15:20.the quid! What we David Cameron have the privilege of travelling on
:15:20. > :15:30.a while he is on his visit to the USA. This is only for viewers that
:15:30. > :15:36.
:15:37. > :15:45.tuned in after the John Pienaar At the end of the show, Lord Jones
:15:45. > :15:47.will give us the correct answer. There has been plenty of
:15:47. > :15:55.speculation about changes the Chancellor could make to tax rates,
:15:55. > :15:58.ahead of next week's Budget. So, what measures might he bring in?
:15:58. > :16:00.Plans to shelve the 50p tax rate for those earning more than
:16:00. > :16:10.�150,000 have also been discussed. Initial Treasury calculations
:16:10. > :16:11.
:16:11. > :16:15.estimate the rate currently brings in around �3 billion a year.
:16:15. > :16:18.The Lib Dems have been pushing for a "mansion tax" on properties worth
:16:18. > :16:22.over �2 million, as a way of getting more tax revenue from the
:16:22. > :16:29.rich. There is speculation that this could be offered to ease Lib
:16:29. > :16:33.Dem concerns on scrapping the 50p tax rate.
:16:33. > :16:39.He is also looking at scrapping tax relief on pension contributions for
:16:39. > :16:47.top earners. The Lib Dems say that this could
:16:47. > :16:50.save �7 billion, and make the system fairer.
:16:50. > :16:55.These measures are being considered to help pay for raising the income
:16:55. > :16:59.threshold, before you start paying tax to �10,000. It was part of the
:16:59. > :17:09.coalition agreement. Earlier this year, Nick Clegg
:17:09. > :17:12.
:17:12. > :17:14.called for this to brought in faster than planned. A report by
:17:14. > :17:17.Christian social policy charity Care this week criticised the
:17:17. > :17:21.threshold rise as an inefficient way to help poor families, and
:17:21. > :17:24.found that our current tax system means families in the UK with one
:17:24. > :17:33.working parent are some of the hardest hit amongst the top
:17:33. > :17:43.developed countries. Former Conservative Chancellor
:17:43. > :17:48.
:17:48. > :17:52.Nigel Lawson chaired the report, and joins us now.
:17:52. > :17:58.Outstanding back, as you see the fiscal position the Chancellor is
:17:58. > :18:06.in, if it was you, what would you be minded to cut, if at all?
:18:06. > :18:13.should operate on both ends. I would do two things. I would bring
:18:13. > :18:18.the 50p tax rate down to 40%, which is where I've put it in 1988. You
:18:18. > :18:27.would lose no revenue at all in my judgment. Because, the Inland
:18:27. > :18:31.Revenue calculation is assuming no behavioural changes. If you factor
:18:31. > :18:38.in behavioural changes, it wouldn't cost you a penny. That is my
:18:38. > :18:45.expense. When I did cut it to 40% in 1988, we got more money from the
:18:45. > :18:50.rich rather than less money. The other end of the scale. Care. They
:18:50. > :18:56.are on to a very good point. There is a solution. Not to raise the
:18:56. > :19:00.threshold, that is inefficient, they are right. But introduce
:19:00. > :19:04.transferable allowances. In other words, the wife who gives up
:19:04. > :19:09.working in order to have children and he wants to look after children,
:19:09. > :19:13.should not lose her renounce, that should be transferred for the time
:19:13. > :19:21.being to her husband so they get the full benefit. I suggested that
:19:21. > :19:27.in mind 1985 -- by 1985 Budget speech and brought out a green
:19:27. > :19:34.paper. But I could not get Margaret Thatcher to agree to it. She felt,
:19:34. > :19:37.somehow, that women who were staying at home, lacked gumption
:19:37. > :19:44.and get up and go. She identified very strongly with the woman who
:19:44. > :19:47.went out to work. Like herself. Very often, the woman who is
:19:47. > :19:54.bringing up young children, maybe working much harder than her
:19:54. > :20:01.husband. And she should not be discriminated against. That is
:20:01. > :20:07.where the poverty is. Where there is only one earner, in a two child
:20:07. > :20:17.family. And I would do those two things, and get the money which has
:20:17. > :20:18.
:20:18. > :20:23.been squirrelled away, which is not nearly as important.
:20:23. > :20:26.Sticking with the thresholds. They have become quite an iconic policy
:20:26. > :20:30.for the coalition. The Liberal Democrats who think they are
:20:30. > :20:37.pushing for it, and quite a few Tories like the idea of taking
:20:37. > :20:42.people out of tax, it has become a litmus test for this coalition.
:20:42. > :20:52.It is a question, am sure something will be done. It is a question of
:20:52. > :20:55.how much you do. When I started off, by taking a lot of people out of
:20:56. > :21:01.tax and raising the threshold this did actually, but subsequently and
:21:01. > :21:07.felt it was better to cut the rates of taxation. That has a more
:21:07. > :21:12.dynamic effect, than acting on the threshold. The one thing I would
:21:12. > :21:16.like to say, and a lot of businesses say this. If someone on
:21:16. > :21:20.the minimum wage could pay no tax, that would encourage a lot of
:21:20. > :21:26.people to say, it is not worth being on the dole, it is worth
:21:26. > :21:35.working. How you achieve that, which is your argument, the one
:21:35. > :21:44.thing about the single mum at home, it's his her contribution to the
:21:44. > :21:48.economy, providing a stable environment for a young person.
:21:48. > :21:52.There is a lot and the press about this. It is a bigger contribution
:21:52. > :21:59.to society. There is a strong social argument for this change,
:21:59. > :22:04.yes. Your argument, the argument of the charity, is that, although what
:22:04. > :22:10.they're doing will take low earners out of tax altogether, it's not
:22:10. > :22:14.just them who benefit. The bulk of the cost goes to middle and us who
:22:14. > :22:19.find their first �10,000... As sometimes wonder, is that the
:22:19. > :22:24.unspoken intention of a policy, a way of putting money into the
:22:24. > :22:32.pockets of middle income? I do not think the Lib Dems have really
:22:32. > :22:37.understand what they are talking about. Badenoch think they -- I
:22:37. > :22:43.think there is another reason for having lower taxes, rather than
:22:43. > :22:49.people taking out -- taking people out of tax altogether. There is
:22:49. > :22:57.always a danger, if you take large numbers of people out of tax, then
:22:57. > :23:02.they will feel that all they can ever actively lobby and press for
:23:03. > :23:09.his higher benefits. And they don't have to pay. So I think, if you
:23:09. > :23:19.want an educated political debate, it is better not to do this but cut
:23:19. > :23:25.
:23:25. > :23:29.tax right across the border. These are straitened times. -- the board.
:23:29. > :23:33.The government is limited in what it can do now. This particular
:23:33. > :23:38.proposal has so much going for it and I am glad this charity, Care,
:23:38. > :23:43.has brought out is well written and well argued report at this
:23:43. > :23:46.particular time. The Chancellor's big challenge
:23:46. > :23:50.isn't just to make tax changes which will be regarded as fair in
:23:50. > :23:55.these times, but to get some growth back into the economy. What would
:23:56. > :24:00.you do? I would deregulate. There has been some deregulation but
:24:00. > :24:07.there is far too much regulation. Much more rules and regulations,
:24:08. > :24:13.which hamper British business. Some of it comes from the European Union,
:24:13. > :24:18.which is a nuisance. Even so, you can interpret that the way some of
:24:18. > :24:22.our continental friends interpret it, rather loosely. There is a lot
:24:22. > :24:30.which is our own regulation which you can get rid of. Give me an
:24:30. > :24:35.example? That is the important thing to do. You get businessmen
:24:35. > :24:38.complaining all the time about the amount of regulation areas. I think
:24:38. > :24:45.also, incidentally, there is another change on the tax front I
:24:45. > :24:50.would like to see. I'd like George Osborne at least to focus on it. I
:24:50. > :24:56.am very concerned about the existing system of corporate
:24:56. > :25:01.taxation as it affects banks'. Because, they get tax relief if
:25:01. > :25:05.they finance themselves from a loan capital. If they finance themselves
:25:05. > :25:11.from equity, they do not. As a result, they have far too much
:25:11. > :25:18.borrowed money and not a big enough equity base. I think we really need
:25:18. > :25:28.to address that. They get the tax relief on interest but not on the
:25:28. > :25:28.
:25:28. > :25:32.dividends they pay. Where are you on the 50p top rate? It has become
:25:32. > :25:36.symbolic in these difficult times. The Chancellor keeps saying we're
:25:37. > :25:42.in it together. What would you do for growth? I would put the
:25:42. > :25:47.political argument Ford, what Britain has to do, we have to
:25:47. > :25:52.increase the amount of money we raise. The politics is in direct
:25:52. > :25:56.conflict. 50p does not raise the money. There are lots of other
:25:56. > :25:59.things were you could but you have to when the politics. There is no
:25:59. > :26:04.energy going into the Liberal Democrats or Tories to win the
:26:04. > :26:09.politics. They're quite prepared to let the politics when. That really
:26:09. > :26:13.worries me. We will end up with lots of ways people can avoid it.
:26:13. > :26:17.One thing I would do for growth more than anything, I would abolish
:26:17. > :26:25.national insurance had visions for employers for people who employed
:26:25. > :26:30.fewer than 25 people, for the next people they employ. If you employed
:26:30. > :26:36.had five and go to 26, he went pay contributions employing the next
:26:36. > :26:42.person. Why do we have a Jobs Tax? Every other tax in Britain taxes
:26:42. > :26:49.money in some form, capital, income. This tax taxes you if you just
:26:49. > :26:55.created job. It is barmy. It is �5.2 billion, so you can't just
:26:55. > :27:00.abolish it. May as says and then further about deregulation. The
:27:00. > :27:05.first point, you can stimulate activity by removing these shackles
:27:05. > :27:09.were it doesn't cost you any thing at all. There is another reason,
:27:09. > :27:15.internationally. We have always been less regulated than
:27:15. > :27:22.continental Europe. They had said they would follow us but they're
:27:22. > :27:28.going back again following the crisis in the euro. And the
:27:28. > :27:35.Americans now are into regulation in a heavy way. The banking bill.
:27:35. > :27:43.Other legislation. We have the opportunity to be the less
:27:43. > :27:53.regulated major economy, and attracted the -- because of it.
:27:53. > :28:00.
:28:00. > :28:05.are right, that is at no cost. We will see what the Chancellor
:28:05. > :28:10.says in the Budget on 21st March, live here on BBC Two. A week
:28:10. > :28:13.tomorrow. The Royal College of GPs has said it is willing to work
:28:13. > :28:17.again with the government on helping to implement the changes to
:28:17. > :28:19.the NHS in England. The body had been omitted from talks with
:28:20. > :28:23.government, after declaring its opposition to the NHS Bill last
:28:23. > :28:27.month. Dr Clare Gerada, who heads the college, has now written to the
:28:27. > :28:32.Prime Minister, saying she wants to help find a "way forward". Dr
:28:32. > :28:41.Gerada appeared on this programme last month. Here's what she had to
:28:41. > :28:45.say then. I represent 44,000 general
:28:45. > :28:51.practitioners of which over 90% when we surveyed them recently
:28:51. > :28:56.wanted me to ask for withdrawal of the bill. Against a background of
:28:56. > :29:00.1.5 years of consultation, three surveys, five executive councils, a
:29:00. > :29:07.national conference, endless consultation. I can categorically
:29:07. > :29:12.tell you my members do not want this bill. Some of the parks of the
:29:12. > :29:17.Bill of good. Bidding GPs in control of money, but impatience
:29:17. > :29:22.first. In its totality, the Bill is a best, it is flawed, the Bill will
:29:22. > :29:26.not achieve what you and Andrew Lansley is setting out to achieve.
:29:26. > :29:30.Dr Clare Gerada speaking to me last month. The NHS Bill is going to be
:29:30. > :29:36.under discussion in both Houses of Parliament today. Let's go over to
:29:36. > :29:44.Central Lobby now, and join Carole Walker.
:29:44. > :29:47.preoccupying the House of Lords and house of Commons. It is continuing
:29:47. > :29:52.its somewhat tortuous process through the House of Lords. In the
:29:52. > :29:55.Commons this afternoon, we are going to have an opposition day
:29:55. > :30:02.debate with they the same even at this late stage, the government
:30:02. > :30:10.should stop the bill in its current form. Diane Abbott speaks on health
:30:10. > :30:15.for Labour. And Lord Jones for the Lib Dems. We heard the Royal
:30:15. > :30:18.College of GPs, the head, vehemently opposed to these plans,
:30:18. > :30:26.saying it is time to sit down with the government and work on putting
:30:26. > :30:34.them into action. Shouldn't you be Her position has not altered and
:30:34. > :30:42.she believes that it is a bad bill. Some of the GPs are taking these
:30:42. > :30:47.roles. Some of them are, but the vast majority want the bill to be
:30:47. > :30:52.dropped. The point about Dr Gerada's position is that it has
:30:52. > :30:55.not altered. She is opposed to the bill in its current form. The Royal
:30:55. > :31:01.College would always have worked with the Government if it became
:31:01. > :31:06.law, and in that sense nothing has changed. Do think there is a change
:31:06. > :31:10.of position because that after the acceptance, the weeks and months of
:31:10. > :31:17.wrangling, this bill will become law in pounds less than a week? I
:31:17. > :31:21.think it is a watershed. It is very difficult to explain to people how
:31:21. > :31:26.this bill has changed, especially in the Lords over the last few
:31:26. > :31:29.weeks, on things like competition, regulation of foundation trust,
:31:29. > :31:34.regulation of private income, things like that. I think that
:31:34. > :31:39.realisation is beginning to become true to members of the Royal
:31:39. > :31:43.College of GPs and other Royal Colleges, I hope. I think we are in
:31:43. > :31:47.the position that the bill will get more acceptance outside now. I
:31:47. > :31:51.think at the end of the day it will go through. I think that is wishful
:31:51. > :31:57.thinking. My view is the same as the majority of the Lib Dem members.
:31:57. > :32:04.In its fundamentals, this bill has not changed. You don't think...
:32:04. > :32:08.how does she know what the Lib Dem members think? They passed a motion
:32:08. > :32:11.agreeing that great progress had been made in House of Lords. The
:32:12. > :32:14.only line they took out of the motion was one are saying to give
:32:14. > :32:19.it a third reading and that is because they did not know enough
:32:19. > :32:29.about the bill as a whole. That is a very their position for a stock
:32:29. > :32:32.
:32:32. > :32:38.that was the key line to take out. -- that is a very unfair position.
:32:38. > :32:41.That was the key line to take out. If they have been allowed to vote
:32:41. > :32:44.against the bill, they would have. They were allowed to vote for the
:32:44. > :32:48.motion that they wanted, which is the one that accepted the progress
:32:48. > :32:54.that had been made. That is why Nick Clegg had to use an air-raid
:32:54. > :32:59.shelter. If this bill does go through, as many people expect,
:32:59. > :33:04.what a future Labour Government overturn it? Oh, yes. Andy Burnham
:33:04. > :33:07.has said clearly on a number of occasions that if this bill goes
:33:07. > :33:15.through, when we are in Government we will overturn it and pick the
:33:15. > :33:19.worst -- on pick the worst of the damage. Even though we are prepared
:33:19. > :33:29.to make the best of it, there is a consensus that it will be damaging
:33:29. > :33:32.
:33:32. > :33:36.and it will cause recommendation. It may -- they are hoping to
:33:36. > :33:40.persuade members of your party to stop this bill. Do you think there
:33:40. > :33:44.is any prospect of that happening now? It will go through. The
:33:44. > :33:49.extraordinary thing about Labour is that they have now performed a
:33:49. > :33:53.somersault, basically. They used to be pro choice and that competition
:33:53. > :33:58.had a limited place in the NHS. They had to 2006 Act that opened
:33:58. > :34:02.the door to price competition, which we are now regulating more
:34:02. > :34:10.effectively. It is extraordinary that they are doing this and many
:34:10. > :34:15.members will be unhappy if they appealed -- try and repeal this and
:34:15. > :34:19.later. The 2006 Act did not mention competition. We still believe that
:34:19. > :34:23.the private sector has a role to play and we certainly believe in
:34:23. > :34:26.choice but this is the wrong bill at the wrong time. We believe it is
:34:26. > :34:31.not too late for the Government to drop it. They really got themselves
:34:31. > :34:37.in a twist last week. They voted against the 49% limit, so they
:34:37. > :34:42.voted to open it. That shows the confusion within the Labour Party.
:34:42. > :34:46.OK, thank you very much. There is still a great deal to discuss on
:34:46. > :34:53.this bill. It does now look as though it is on course to become a
:34:53. > :34:57.law fairly shortly, but in the Commons this afternoon Labour will
:34:57. > :35:01.be saying that it should be dropped. Goodbye from Westminster.
:35:01. > :35:05.Thank you. Last week was brutal in Afghanistan and as we were saying
:35:05. > :35:09.it should feature high on the agenda in discussions between
:35:09. > :35:19.Barack Obama and David Cameron. Both are under pressure following
:35:19. > :35:22.
:35:22. > :35:32.recent terrible events to increase the pace of withdrawal. Yesterday,
:35:32. > :35:32.
:35:32. > :35:35.there were questions about the killing by the rogue US soldier.
:35:35. > :35:40.Does the Minister accept that there is a growing feeling in this
:35:40. > :35:44.country, no doubt and United States as well but certainly in Britain,
:35:44. > :35:49.that this war cannot be one? This is a war when people no longer
:35:49. > :35:53.accept the official line. Our security depends on our military
:35:53. > :35:58.continuing to be in Afghanistan. Barack Obama and the Prime Minister
:35:58. > :36:03.are meeting this week. Would it not be wise for them to accept that
:36:03. > :36:09.there is this feeling, this strong feeling, that this war has gone on
:36:09. > :36:12.now for over 10 years, that it cannot be won? We are on the right
:36:12. > :36:17.course. We have the right security strategy, but I think what he is
:36:17. > :36:22.getting at, and this opinion is widely held, that what we need to
:36:22. > :36:24.find is a political solution to the future of Afghanistan. Although
:36:25. > :36:30.progress on this has been disappointingly slow, there are now
:36:30. > :36:33.some signs of encouragement. I believe that there is a realistic
:36:33. > :36:37.prospect that the political process will be under way within the
:36:37. > :36:44.timescale that I am talking about. The idea that we can start
:36:44. > :36:48.challenging the plan to withdraw early worries me a great deal.
:36:48. > :36:53.Because soldiers need certainty. They need that certainty for their
:36:53. > :36:56.offices to plan and for soldiers to get used to it. It will be
:36:56. > :37:01.increasingly challenging for the soldiers over the next two years as
:37:01. > :37:05.we go towards withdrawing from combat operations. Can I ask the
:37:05. > :37:08.Minister whether he agrees with that assessment? We have got to
:37:08. > :37:12.support our soldiers are utterly and completely and the plan is set
:37:12. > :37:18.and must remain set now. The best thing we can do is for the
:37:18. > :37:22.international community now have to appoint an international mediator
:37:22. > :37:26.with international backing, to frame the international strategy
:37:26. > :37:33.internally and regionally, which is so desperately needed. If we do not
:37:33. > :37:38.stop working on it now, every day will show we can chances of leaving
:37:38. > :37:42.Afghanistan. -- start working on it. This is an isolated incident. There
:37:42. > :37:46.will be some calling for urgent withdrawal, but can I stress this
:37:47. > :37:56.is not just about security? It is also about governance and I hope
:37:56. > :38:00.that will be discussed at the summit into cargo. -- in Chicago.
:38:00. > :38:04.Tobias Ellwood, you saw him on the take and now he is live in the
:38:04. > :38:09.flesh. He is a former captain in the army and we are also joined by
:38:09. > :38:14.John Hemming, Liberal Democrat MP. John Hemming, if you were in charge
:38:14. > :38:17.of our Afghan policy now, what would you do? I would be looking
:38:17. > :38:22.for a earlier withdrawal. The problem is the dynamic of the
:38:22. > :38:26.situation is about the occupation, the presence of forces from outside
:38:26. > :38:31.Afghanistan. In an a symmetric conflict, when one side is powerful
:38:31. > :38:36.and the other relatively weak, it is a motions that drives things. If
:38:36. > :38:40.we are looking for real peace, which is the political solution,
:38:40. > :38:44.then maintaining the forces is not working towards that. Can you give
:38:44. > :38:48.us an idea of what you mean by an early withdrawal? I understand that
:38:48. > :38:52.the final combat troops will be gone by the end of 2014 and the
:38:52. > :38:56.draw down will begin before then. We always have to be concerned
:38:56. > :38:59.about the future safety of our troops and I will always take
:38:59. > :39:08.advice from the military about how quickly and then to be they can
:39:08. > :39:12.withdraw. I voted to withdraw some years ago now. -- and how safely
:39:12. > :39:19.they can withdraw. What we are doing is very cruel for the troops.
:39:19. > :39:22.If we gave them a military objective, they could achieve
:39:22. > :39:27.anything we set them, but a political objective is not
:39:27. > :39:31.something they can achieve. They will come out anyway, and whether
:39:31. > :39:37.we have got something that looks like victory or not. We are still
:39:37. > :39:41.coming up. The case for early withdrawal would be where you leave
:39:41. > :39:44.Afghanistan and where things would go in the near future? We don't
:39:44. > :39:51.want to leave an unstable Afghanistan and we don't want
:39:51. > :39:56.another civil law. -- civil war. We did not start training the Afghans
:39:56. > :40:01.properly until 2008. And only now are they starting to take over at
:40:01. > :40:04.the locations that they need to hold to provide that security.
:40:04. > :40:11.Underneath that a brother of security, what has not happened is
:40:11. > :40:16.improvements to governance. In the same way as happened in the 1840
:40:16. > :40:20.and the early 20th century, Afghanistan was never properly run.
:40:20. > :40:28.We needed divergence of governance so that Afghanistan is properly run,
:40:28. > :40:32.rather than it is the -- this knee- jerk reaction that we need to get
:40:32. > :40:36.out which will leave possible civil war further down the line. We have
:40:36. > :40:40.spent all this blood and treasure already. If we get out too soon, we
:40:40. > :40:47.will leave the Afghans not ready to take over, so we need to stay, do
:40:47. > :40:50.we? You are ignoring an important point that Tobias Ellwood is making.
:40:50. > :40:55.He is one of the few politicians that understands tribal than
:40:55. > :40:59.foreigners. We are imposing a Western model on Afghanistan which
:40:59. > :41:03.cannot work. There is a power structure based on tribes and we
:41:03. > :41:09.are imposing a Western model on that. So it does not matter how
:41:09. > :41:12.long we stay? Tobias is right. In terms of resolve in the political
:41:12. > :41:22.side, there needs to be something that recognises the power
:41:22. > :41:24.
:41:25. > :41:30.structures that exist. We are driving a 1000 years of political
:41:30. > :41:35.structures in the UK it over 10 years, which is also a mistake.
:41:35. > :41:40.Lots of people watching this would say that the imposition of a
:41:40. > :41:44.Western-style on to Afghanistan is wrong. Therefore to get it devolved
:41:44. > :41:48.down into tried to get the corruption out, to somehow ensure
:41:48. > :41:52.that the Taliban do not come out of the caves in 2014 and start a civil
:41:52. > :41:58.war, whatever we do, everybody would say that we are not going to
:41:58. > :42:02.pull that off between 2012 and 2014. This is cultural change. Either you
:42:02. > :42:08.are going to be in for an incredibly long haul, which we all
:42:08. > :42:16.know won't happen, but what is so magical about 2014? Firstly, we are
:42:16. > :42:20.seeing progress. That -- let's not deny what is happening. We are
:42:20. > :42:24.taking charge of the security of the country. This is not matched
:42:24. > :42:29.with improvements in governance and Reconstruction and Development.
:42:29. > :42:33.This country is rich in minerals and so forth but the economic plan
:42:34. > :42:41.is not there. As we focus on draw down, we need to press forward to
:42:41. > :42:48.encourage better forms of governance. To give a brief example,
:42:48. > :42:52.Hamid Karzai gets to a point every headteacher in Afghanistan, which
:42:52. > :42:56.is far too centralised. Everybody is appointed by the President. This
:42:57. > :43:00.sort of reform needs to be focused on. He has just banned women
:43:00. > :43:04.walking around Kabul on their own without a male consort. We know
:43:04. > :43:11.that is so that you can go down the road to the Taliban and say that he
:43:11. > :43:15.is trying to meet them somewhere. If I was a soldier from any country
:43:15. > :43:18.where life was being threatened every day, I know they are paid to
:43:18. > :43:23.go in harm's way, but at least they have got to think things are being
:43:23. > :43:27.changed. We are running out of time but I want to ask you this.
:43:27. > :43:32.Regardless of the substance of your argument, do you get a sense that
:43:32. > :43:37.you are pushing at an open door because of what has happened?
:43:37. > :43:41.difficulty is, one of the eternal problems with any military conflict,
:43:41. > :43:45.we have to be primarily concerned about our security and the security
:43:45. > :43:48.of our armed forces. It is difficult to say that what we need
:43:48. > :43:52.to do is pull out given the sacrifice is that people have made.
:43:52. > :43:56.But it is worse to have more sacrifices because we are making
:43:56. > :43:59.the difficult decision to put out now. Are you pushing at an open
:43:59. > :44:03.door? It is difficult to say because the Government needs to
:44:03. > :44:09.work with native. If you don't know it is better not to answer the
:44:09. > :44:12.question. Thank you. We will see what is decided by the President
:44:12. > :44:18.and the Prime Minister. It is bound to be a key part of any final
:44:18. > :44:21.statement after the British visit Later this month, we'll get an idea
:44:21. > :44:24.of the government's vision for the future of Britain's airports. The
:44:24. > :44:27.aviation industry say that expansion will help the economy,
:44:27. > :44:35.while environmental groups fret that the green agenda is being
:44:35. > :44:41.chucked out in favour of growth. Here's Adam.
:44:41. > :44:51.Ladies and gentlemen, we have begun a descent into Westminster
:44:51. > :44:52.
:44:52. > :44:56.Right now, politicians have got aeroplanes on the brain. The
:44:56. > :45:00.coalition agreement between the Tories and Liberal Democrats rules
:45:00. > :45:04.out any new runways at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. Last year,
:45:04. > :45:08.the government started a consultation on the future flight
:45:08. > :45:13.plan in the UK. We will hear their initial thought this month, paving
:45:13. > :45:18.the way for a full-blown aviation strategy to be published next year.
:45:18. > :45:21.What are some of the options people have been talking about?
:45:21. > :45:26.The departure to London Heathrow has been cancelled because the
:45:26. > :45:32.airport is full. The owners of the UK's biggest airports so that means
:45:32. > :45:36.they are stuck in a holding pattern. We are short of capacity, which
:45:36. > :45:41.means we are more vulnerable to delays and congestion, and short of
:45:41. > :45:45.capacity to put in on new routes, such as to China. We announced one
:45:45. > :45:48.new route recently but our competitors are lapsing several new
:45:48. > :45:52.routes, they're getting further ahead of us in terms of trade links
:45:53. > :45:57.with growing parts of the world. Which suggests either another
:45:57. > :46:02.runway or permission to operate even more flights.
:46:02. > :46:06.Check in for the first flight to Boris Ireland will open in 13 years.
:46:06. > :46:11.To realise the dream of the mayor of London for a new airport in the
:46:11. > :46:14.Thames estuary, a lot of obstacles have to be overcome, from the risk
:46:15. > :46:21.posed by birds, to the aviation routes of other countries, and the
:46:21. > :46:25.enormous cost. For those obstacles can digest, some are more difficult.
:46:25. > :46:31.What we need is for the government to say this is something they can
:46:31. > :46:35.look at seriously. The 11:45am flight to Manchester,
:46:35. > :46:39.Bristol and Birmingham is now ready for boarding. The UK's regional
:46:39. > :46:44.airports are keen to grab a bigger slice of the growing demand for
:46:44. > :46:49.flights. But all this horrifies green groups.
:46:49. > :46:54.Passengers could always forget the plane and get the train instead.
:46:54. > :46:57.you do not need to fly to Paris, you can take the train. If you can
:46:57. > :47:03.take a train to Manchester or Edinburgh, let us look at those
:47:03. > :47:08.options, sensible runway capacity so you're not having to chock-a-
:47:08. > :47:12.block few runways with those short hop flights and you can have proper
:47:12. > :47:17.flight space for long-haul flights. So there aren't easy answers when
:47:17. > :47:23.it comes to aviation policy. Passengers boarding at Westminster
:47:23. > :47:27.International Airport, prepare for some turbulence. Adam Fleming.
:47:27. > :47:31.We've still got our guest of the day, Digby Jones, with us. To talk
:47:31. > :47:34.more about the future for airport expansion in the UK, we are now
:47:34. > :47:42.joined by the Chair of the Energy and Climate Change Select Committee,
:47:42. > :47:46.Tim Yeo, also Conservative MP for South Suffolk.
:47:46. > :47:49.Can we clarify, is it your understanding of that the
:47:49. > :47:54.Conservatives, and the coalition government, they are still opposed
:47:54. > :48:00.to a third runway at Heathrow? his coalition policy, and happen to
:48:00. > :48:04.think it is wrong. What would you do? Britain needs a modern
:48:04. > :48:08.transport infrastructure which means more airport capacity. But it
:48:08. > :48:14.kick in China we have no direct links and we will miss out.
:48:14. > :48:19.Provincial cities. We now at last have cover for changing the
:48:19. > :48:25.coalition position. The EU has applied a new emissions limit. That
:48:25. > :48:32.means building another runway does not actually increase emissions
:48:32. > :48:37.because they're already subject to the EU restrictions. So to build a
:48:37. > :48:41.brand new airport? He is more practical to build a third runway.
:48:41. > :48:47.The cost otherwise would be enormous. It is also in the wrong
:48:47. > :48:50.place. People do not live in the Thames estuary, they tend to live
:48:50. > :48:56.west and north. The journey for most passengers would get worse if
:48:56. > :49:00.we had a Thames estuary airport. People say we are in danger of
:49:00. > :49:07.losing out. They say it aviation happens to be an industry Britain
:49:07. > :49:12.is a world leader. Heathrow was the world's premier airport. Great for
:49:12. > :49:21.Britain. They now say business is going to Frankfurt, Amsterdam,
:49:21. > :49:27.Paris. That is so right. We are in danger of ceasing to be a hub for
:49:27. > :49:37.the developed world. If you look at a brute, about 60% of the
:49:37. > :49:43.
:49:43. > :49:51.passengers on a route come from somewhere else - route. You have to
:49:52. > :49:57.feed it through a hub. Frankfurt has 16 destination cities in China.
:49:57. > :50:02.It brings it in everywhere else from Europe. We're trying to be
:50:02. > :50:07.point to point and it doesn't work. If you're going into the Thames
:50:07. > :50:17.estuary, more people belong to the virus pp than to the political
:50:17. > :50:19.
:50:19. > :50:23.parties in Britain! -- RSPB. It all comes back to a third runway at
:50:23. > :50:30.Heathrow. If you had the Thames estuary and closed Heathrow, help
:50:30. > :50:37.any politician can defend the loss of jobs? It has to be a third
:50:37. > :50:42.runway. The case for a third runway, it reinforces the hub nature. I
:50:42. > :50:46.interviewed unexamined a couple of weeks ago. He got the sustained
:50:46. > :50:51.light aeroplane from Aberdeen to Heathrow. It was full of people
:50:51. > :50:56.going on to the Far East, Singapore. You won't get many direct flights
:50:56. > :51:01.from Aberdeen to Singapore. They needed Heathrow. They were saying,
:51:01. > :51:06.you can fly from Aberdeen to Frankfurt, we will go there.
:51:06. > :51:10.Heathrow remains potentially a world-class airport. It Sadiq is
:51:10. > :51:15.not that at the moment, some of the tunnels are out of date. It needs
:51:15. > :51:21.extra capacity as well. There is an interesting environmental argument
:51:21. > :51:25.in favour of runways, less stacking. Emissions for aircraft are
:51:25. > :51:28.particularly high when they are waiting to land. You could make a
:51:29. > :51:34.positive green case for saying reducing the congestion at Heathrow
:51:34. > :51:42.in the air for people arriving, and on the ground, taking off, to cut
:51:42. > :51:46.emissions. You have two problems. You have a Conservative Transport
:51:46. > :51:52.Secretary whose constituency is on the flight path into Heathrow. And
:51:52. > :51:57.you have a coalition partner who as I understand, their policy isn't
:51:57. > :52:02.just no runway in Heathrow, they are saying no runways in the south
:52:02. > :52:07.east. Justine Greening has made a good start as Transport Secretary,
:52:07. > :52:11.I have to say. I am genuinely encouraged by it. She might like to
:52:11. > :52:16.pass the decision about the runway to somebody else who does not have
:52:16. > :52:22.the same constituency problem. My constituency is in East Anglia. I
:52:22. > :52:26.was concerned when I thought Stansted was going to expand.
:52:26. > :52:30.Liberal Democrats, they're wrong about this. Britain, if it is going
:52:31. > :52:36.to be a world-class economy, it needs a world-class transport
:52:36. > :52:44.infrastructure, which means high- speed trains, and more capacity. We
:52:44. > :52:49.are falling behind badly on transport issues. We have to be
:52:49. > :52:56.brave with the coalition partners and say, we want Britain to be in
:52:56. > :53:00.the Premier League economically, that means more airport capacity.
:53:00. > :53:07.love -- I'd love the politicians to say to a penance, where you see
:53:07. > :53:14.this country in 2025. High-speed rail, excellent. Secondly, at the
:53:14. > :53:24.moment, you would seek a vibrant Paris and Netherlands taking the
:53:24. > :53:25.
:53:26. > :53:35.growth away. You end up with a second Tear Britain. That is awful.
:53:36. > :53:39.-- tier. A few days ago, Apple announced
:53:39. > :53:43.more than 25 billion apps have been downloaded from its app store. And
:53:43. > :53:50.everyone it seems wants to get in on the craze. The Prime Minister
:53:50. > :53:52.already has an iPad. We know about his Angry Birds obsession. Not
:53:52. > :54:02.content with that, he's had a customised tablet computer produced,
:54:02. > :54:06.
:54:06. > :54:10.costing �20,000. So what special apps might he have on it?
:54:10. > :54:14.It's thought the PM will be able to access all kinds of stats, with a
:54:14. > :54:19.data app: Polling trends, the markets, NHS waiting times, and
:54:19. > :54:23.crime and unemployment figures will all be available. We're not sure if
:54:23. > :54:32.he'll have a nuclear option on the app, keeping him in control of the
:54:32. > :54:35.country's nuclear arsenal. But we do expect him to have a personal
:54:35. > :54:43.trainer app for days when we can't go jogging in St James' Park.
:54:43. > :54:47.Something to keep him motivated and fit.
:54:47. > :54:57.We know the PM likes to catch up on episodes of The Killing and
:54:57. > :55:00.Desperate Housewives. So a film downloads app is sure to feature.
:55:00. > :55:08.We're joined now by Torsten Stauch, an app designer, from the company
:55:08. > :55:17.Red C. What to do think the Prime Minister
:55:17. > :55:22.will have? Apart from those absolute necessity is! I pick it is
:55:22. > :55:29.obvious, what we are seeing with the promise to getting his own app,
:55:29. > :55:36.is the fact there is a shift in the world from games, everyone talks
:55:36. > :55:39.about Angry Birds, to be in productivity tools. The taxpayers
:55:39. > :55:44.alliance might be say this is a waste of money, I couldn't disagree
:55:44. > :55:48.more. The more time he spends on his own app, the better it is for
:55:48. > :55:53.the taxpayer. I have no doubt any iPad usable low productivity
:55:53. > :56:01.increases when they are using a tablet. There has been a suggestion
:56:01. > :56:09.maybe MPs should all be given an iPad or tablet, and although they
:56:09. > :56:14.might cost �400 each, we think, why should we spend money on this?
:56:14. > :56:19.Would it make them more efficient? Somerset it would save money.
:56:19. > :56:24.course it would save money. You are saving on paper. There is good
:56:24. > :56:28.reason to do that at least. You are able to use it in many more
:56:28. > :56:33.different places. Sitting in a meeting and using the laptop screen
:56:33. > :56:40.is not the way you want to work. To have a discreet tablet is better,
:56:40. > :56:47.you can have information to hand way you are not behind your desk.
:56:47. > :56:52.What sort of app would make your life easier? Seriously, I would
:56:52. > :56:58.definitely would welcome a locked of the stuff I could read on trains
:56:58. > :57:04.and in the back of cars were, at the moment, for by printed it out?
:57:04. > :57:10.Whereas, if it was on a tablet, that would help me. Good for the
:57:10. > :57:15.environment. The less serious one, definitely, the in-depth analysis
:57:15. > :57:22.of why Leicester Tigers is the best rugby team in Britain, and why God
:57:22. > :57:31.is alive and well and keeping goal for Aston Villa! You created an app
:57:31. > :57:34.for George Galloway? He is well up on understanding how we is
:57:34. > :57:39.communicating -- he is communicating with his followers.
:57:39. > :57:43.If you can get into their pocket, they can be watching a video of
:57:43. > :57:48.your latest campaign or speech while standing in the queue at a
:57:48. > :57:55.supermarket, that makes sense. They might not be doing that if you're
:57:55. > :57:58.there -- by their computer. Doesn't it killed the art of
:57:58. > :58:03.conversation? There is an argument for that. Having my own children, I
:58:03. > :58:10.try not to get them into technology too quickly. That doesn't mean you
:58:10. > :58:13.can't use technology well. It must be managed. It learns -- it means
:58:13. > :58:18.you learn things and gives you something to talk about.
:58:18. > :58:24.children, we are training children to build the Rhone apps. Previously,
:58:24. > :58:33.the ICT curriculum was dead boring. Turning the children away from
:58:33. > :58:36.digital or media careers. This can interest them.
:58:36. > :58:41.Time for the quiz. What will David Cameron have the privilege of
:58:41. > :58:51.travelling on whilst he's on his official visit to the USA.
:58:51. > :58:51.
:58:51. > :58:55.Force One. The first leader from a foreign country ever to be on it.