18/04/2012

:00:43. > :00:50.Morning folks. This is the Daily Politics. It's exactly four weeks

:00:50. > :00:53.since the Budget and the bad headlines just keep appearing. The

:00:53. > :00:56.Prime Minister has endured a series of rows, gaffes, crises and U-turns,

:00:56. > :01:04.but are they just mid-term blues or what one Downing Street insider has

:01:04. > :01:09.labelled an omnishambles? Ed Miliband should have plenty to go

:01:09. > :01:11.on in the the first PMQs since the Budget. We'll bring you that live

:01:11. > :01:15.and uninterrupted from noon. Unemployment falls for the first

:01:15. > :01:22.time in a year. The number of people out of work now stands at

:01:22. > :01:25.2.65 million - that from the labour force survey measure. And, food

:01:25. > :01:28.glorious food, as Cornish MPs attempt to stop the planned rise in

:01:28. > :01:38.VAT on pasties, we'll be asking if we should in fact be considering

:01:38. > :01:38.

:01:38. > :01:41.even bigger taxes on unhealthy foods. All that to come before

:01:41. > :01:45.1.00pm and with us for the duration two leading lights of the political

:01:45. > :01:50.world - Lib Dem Pensions Minister, Steve Webb and Shadow Leader of the

:01:50. > :01:57.House, Angela Eagle. Welcome to you both. How much interest are you

:01:57. > :02:00.getting from your savings? Probably not a lot, and if you're a

:02:00. > :02:05.pensioner you're probably not relying on interest income to pay

:02:05. > :02:08.the bills. This morning, the Treasury Select Committee has said

:02:08. > :02:10.the Government should explore what it could do to help pensioners

:02:10. > :02:20.whose retirement income has been undermined by low interest rates

:02:20. > :02:26.

:02:26. > :02:30.and the Bank of England's quantitative easing programme.

:02:30. > :02:35.That's printing money to buy00 gilts, keeping long-term interest

:02:35. > :02:41.rates down. Mr Webb, any chance of the savers, not just the pensioners,

:02:41. > :02:45.getting some help? It's vital that we need to reward saving properly.

:02:45. > :02:50.When people save the Government means tests them and says, "You've

:02:50. > :02:53.got money, so we'll not pay you any extra help." The number of

:02:53. > :02:58.pensioners who ask when they bothered saving. That's why what we

:02:58. > :03:03.are trying to do is get the state pension up to a decent level so

:03:03. > :03:06.people have to be means tested less. That is not something which

:03:06. > :03:11.interest rates flow up and down short term, but a long-term

:03:11. > :03:16.strategy. The acutely minded will notice that's not what I was

:03:16. > :03:23.talking about. It absolutely is. what the Treasury Select Committee

:03:23. > :03:26.was importantly talking about was interest rates being at 0.5% since

:03:26. > :03:30.March 2009. Which if you are a safer is not good news. It may be

:03:30. > :03:34.the right thing for the country, it may not, that's for you to tell us,

:03:34. > :03:38.but not good news for savers, coupled with the effect of

:03:38. > :03:42.quantitative easing, of pumping a lot of money into the economy,

:03:42. > :03:46.which depresses long-term interest rates, which in turn hits annuities.

:03:46. > :03:50.The pension industry, for example, says the annuity rates have been

:03:50. > :03:54.down by a quarter in three years and 90 billion has been wiped off

:03:54. > :03:58.the value of pensions because of it. What is the answer to that? Annuity

:03:58. > :04:00.rates have been falling year after year after year. There's no clear

:04:00. > :04:04.evidence that quantitative easing has made a big difference to that.

:04:04. > :04:09.Rates have fallen partly because people are living longer and what

:04:09. > :04:13.we have to make sure is we have just had the biggest pension cash

:04:13. > :04:17.rise ever and that's something the Liberal Democrats were wanting to.

:04:17. > :04:22.Do what will happen every year is that the pension will go up by the

:04:22. > :04:26.highest of inflation earnings or 2.5%. Excuse me, minister, but

:04:26. > :04:29.pensioners watching this programme aren't going to be better off

:04:29. > :04:34.because of this increase. They are going to be the same, because it

:04:34. > :04:37.keeps pace with inflation. policy has been in force for the

:04:37. > :04:45.last ten years, but the pension will be �10 a week higher. That's

:04:45. > :04:48.the real difference. Before I come to Angela, you then don't buy the

:04:48. > :04:53.implicit criticism from the committee that keeping interests

:04:53. > :04:58.rates very low, may be right for other reasons, but they are low and

:04:59. > :05:02.doing quantitative easing has been a bum deal for savers in general

:05:02. > :05:05.and pensioners in particular? don't agree it's the reason why

:05:05. > :05:09.annuity rates have fallen, but I agree that pensioners have suffered

:05:09. > :05:13.through lower interest rates. That is true. The challenge is to make

:05:13. > :05:19.sure they have a decent standard of living to build on savings.

:05:19. > :05:22.Interest rates went to 0.5% in March 2009. Labour in power.

:05:22. > :05:27.Quantitative easing started under Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

:05:27. > :05:31.Labour in power. Both of you have been at fault? It's important for

:05:31. > :05:37.the economy, as you have mentioned, that quantitative easing and

:05:37. > :05:40.monetary policy can help take some of the weight of adjustment after

:05:40. > :05:45.the global financial crisis. Our argument with the Government on

:05:45. > :05:48.that is actually they are expecting monetary policy to take all of that

:05:48. > :05:55.weight and actually that's not working, because economists say

:05:55. > :06:04.it's like pushing on a piece of string. Monetary policy - That was

:06:04. > :06:07.Mr Key nes. You are not complaining because they're still low, are you?

:06:07. > :06:11.You have to say that this is obviously hitting all savers.

:06:11. > :06:14.are not complaining? Particularly pensioners. What I would say is the

:06:14. > :06:18.Government needed to look more effectively at what else it could

:06:18. > :06:22.do to stimulate the economy and not just have the overreliance on

:06:22. > :06:27.monetary policy. I'll tell you what we want have done. Answer the

:06:27. > :06:31.question. Ask me. I am asking you. It's not Labour policy, as I

:06:31. > :06:37.understand it, to oppose keeping interest rates at 0.5% and it's not

:06:37. > :06:41.Labour policy, as I understand it, to oppose the �325 billion of QE

:06:41. > :06:44.that's been done. Am I right? we have said is that the Government

:06:45. > :06:50.shouldn't be relying only on monetary policy. You've said that.

:06:50. > :06:55.Will you answer my question - are you opposed to keep interest rates

:06:55. > :06:59.at that level and to the QE? What we would have done would have been

:06:59. > :07:02.different. We would have also had some fiscal policy measures. We

:07:02. > :07:09.have got our five-point plan, which is about boosting the economy in

:07:09. > :07:13.the short term, so we can allow fiscal policy to take some of the

:07:13. > :07:18.pressure on this. I'm not sure we would have been in the position

:07:18. > :07:22.where we flat-line the economy, where unemployment was going up and

:07:22. > :07:25.there's no effective policy for growth. If you can have growth then

:07:25. > :07:28.you can take some of the pressure off and get back to normality, so

:07:28. > :07:33.that's the answer to that particular question. And ewe, I'll

:07:33. > :07:38.tell you what else we wouldn't have done. No, no, no. Taking pressure

:07:38. > :07:41.off interest rates is a way of - off monetary policy, which is your

:07:41. > :07:47.phrase, is an oblique politician's way of saying interest rates would

:07:47. > :07:50.rise, correct? Well, they have to rise at some stage in the future

:07:50. > :07:54.when economic conditions have normalised. We are trying to get

:07:54. > :07:59.the economy back to normality and that wouldn't be to have 0.5% rates.

:07:59. > :08:08.I tell you what we wouldn't have done though, not increased VAT to

:08:08. > :08:11.hit pensioners with a triple whammy and the granny tax. That's that.

:08:11. > :08:16.Are you whispering now? Do you use Facebook, Twitter or Skype? If so,

:08:16. > :08:19.the Government plans to watch you. It wants to allow GCHQ to monitor

:08:19. > :08:22.all communication on social media, and log every site visited by

:08:22. > :08:25.internet users. Some have called it a snoopers' charter, and said it

:08:25. > :08:30.amounts to the same kind of surveillance that governments in

:08:30. > :08:33.China and Iran use. But others have argued it's another tool in the

:08:33. > :08:36.fight against terrorism. Today, the inventor of the world wide web and

:08:36. > :08:38.the Government's own adviser on public data, Tim Berners-Lee, told

:08:38. > :08:43.the Guardian that these powers would be a destruction of human

:08:43. > :08:53.rights. And he said that routinely recording information about people

:08:53. > :08:54.

:08:54. > :08:59.is obviously very dangerous. Will you change the policy? There isn't

:08:59. > :09:03.a policy yet. What needs to be discussed is the law. Civil

:09:03. > :09:13.liberties are core to what I'm in politics for, so I won't vote for

:09:13. > :09:13.

:09:13. > :09:15.anything that tram ms on that. What we should do -- tramples on that.

:09:15. > :09:19.Let's look at how new technology affects what the Government does,

:09:19. > :09:23.but use it as an opportunity to give people more protection than

:09:23. > :09:29.they've had in the past. You say that, but if you are going to allow

:09:29. > :09:33.agencies to monitor the calls, e- mails and texts and website visits,

:09:33. > :09:36.tell me how that doesn't? Many of the powers were introduced in the

:09:36. > :09:41.previous Government and people can already have traffic on e-mails

:09:41. > :09:44.monitored. You want to extend it? want to make sure there are proper

:09:44. > :09:49.safeguards. What will they be? example, the things can be done,

:09:49. > :09:52.but they have to have a magistrate agreeing, or in some cases the Home

:09:52. > :09:57.Secretary has to agree, but huge amounts going on and we as a

:09:57. > :09:59.Government have to make sure we are trying to presume protection for

:09:59. > :10:03.people's liberties and then make somebody make the case for an

:10:03. > :10:06.exception. It sounds a bit complicated. Your own adviser is

:10:06. > :10:10.saying the policy should be scrapped. That's a big warning

:10:10. > :10:16.light, never mind your own backbenchers? I have huge respect

:10:16. > :10:21.for Tim Berners Lee. You are not going to listen to him on this?

:10:21. > :10:25.Absolutely, listen to him. We need to protect civil liberties, but the

:10:25. > :10:30.case needs to be made, but the presumption needs to protect

:10:30. > :10:34.people's freedoms. One of the things raised by one of the Liberal

:10:34. > :10:38.Democrat MPs who sits on the Select Committee, no expert I've spoken to

:10:38. > :10:42.see can see how this can be done without great expense and allowing

:10:42. > :10:46.access to the message that sent, in other words content. No-one is

:10:46. > :10:49.going to believe they will just monitor the time and date messages

:10:49. > :10:52.without looking at content and for that you need a warrant. Is that

:10:52. > :10:55.something the Liberal Democrats will support? Content is obviously

:10:55. > :10:59.a much bigger step than knowing whether you sent an e-mail to

:10:59. > :11:03.someone or had a phone call. Content is a much bigger bridge and

:11:03. > :11:08.would need greater levels of security than we currently have.

:11:08. > :11:13.You are saying that's going to happen? Currently people's e-mails

:11:13. > :11:16.can be accessed. New technology, you do something over the internet

:11:16. > :11:20.and the current technology doesn't allow you to do that, but a phone

:11:20. > :11:23.call you can. There are bizarre things about the current system. It

:11:23. > :11:26.needs updating, but we need to use this as an opportunity to re-open

:11:26. > :11:31.some of the measures that came in with the last government. Angela,

:11:31. > :11:35.you must be pleased, because Labour wanted to introduce a database. It

:11:35. > :11:40.was opposition from the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives that

:11:40. > :11:43.had it scrapped basically. Do you welcome these? There's always a

:11:44. > :11:48.balance between security and dealing with criminals who use the

:11:48. > :11:52.internet. And all of that. Also privacy and people's rights. What

:11:52. > :11:55.you wouldn't have heard from listening to Steve Webb talking

:11:55. > :11:59.there, and what people might not have realised, is that Nick Clegg

:12:00. > :12:04.appears to have signed this policy off in a Government committee, as

:12:04. > :12:08.the Prime Minister chieded him for making trouble about it in public

:12:08. > :12:11.and the Liberal Democrats have got to stop pretending that if they

:12:11. > :12:14.complain about things in public that they've agreed to in the

:12:14. > :12:17.privacy of a Cabinet committee and go and vote for it, that somehow

:12:17. > :12:22.they can distance themselves from Government policy. Nick Clegg has

:12:22. > :12:27.signed up to this? Nick Clegg is on the record saying that there needs

:12:27. > :12:31.to be draft legislation to consult and listen to people, so there is

:12:32. > :12:36.no law. He has said -- There are Conservative ministers on the

:12:36. > :12:39.television saying that this is all agreed in Cabinet committees and

:12:39. > :12:42.the proposals wouldn't have come forward if they hadn't been agreed,

:12:42. > :12:47.so the Liberal Democrats have to decide whether they're in the

:12:47. > :12:50.Government or out and stop taking people for idiots. People know that

:12:50. > :12:53.Liberal Democrats are responsible for the decisions that pass through

:12:53. > :12:57.the House of Commons and they vote for them. Of course, there's been

:12:57. > :13:04.no vote or decision. What Nick has been insistent on is proper

:13:04. > :13:08.consultation before anything happens. Thank you. I've been

:13:08. > :13:11.reading your e-mails for years. Today's PMQs is the first for four

:13:11. > :13:16.weeks. Yes, you heard that right. And what a month it has been for

:13:16. > :13:19.the Government. Just four weeks ago everything seemed fine and dandy

:13:19. > :13:21.for David Cameron. Fresh from his visit to Washington, where he

:13:21. > :13:25.watched basketball with the President and was treated to a

:13:25. > :13:28.lavish state banquet, Mr Cameron was on a roll. But then came George

:13:28. > :13:31.Osborne's Budget and pastygate, the so-called granny tax, the charity

:13:31. > :13:35.tax, the fuel panic for a strike that never was. Yes, a veritable

:13:35. > :13:45.pot pourri of woes for the PM. So, Jo, can you remind us what's been

:13:45. > :13:50.

:13:50. > :13:54.going on? At the beginning of March, the Sun's daily tracker poll had

:13:54. > :14:00.Labour and the Conservatives neck and neck on 39%. With the Liberal

:14:00. > :14:05.Democrats some way behind on 8%. However, following the Budget

:14:05. > :14:08.things changed. Granny tax and charity tax, relief cuts riled

:14:08. > :14:12.large sections of the press and public and Labour's poll ratings

:14:12. > :14:16.began to move ahead. More problems came that following weekend, as

:14:16. > :14:20.Tory chairman Peter Cruddas was forced to step down after offering

:14:20. > :14:24.access to David Cameron for a �250,000 donation. He was filmed,

:14:24. > :14:30.saying it would be awesome for your business. Then there were the

:14:30. > :14:34.queues outside petrol stations, following fears of a strike.

:14:34. > :14:41.Cabinet minister, Francis Maude, suggested keeping a jerry can in

:14:41. > :14:47.theing grarge and the Government was -- garage was widely criticised.

:14:47. > :14:51.Then monitoring calls, texts and e- mails that were labelled as

:14:51. > :14:55.snoopers' charter and David Cameron was given respite, as the spotlight

:14:55. > :14:59.on turned on Labour's failure to hold on to Bradford West. George

:14:59. > :15:03.Galloway causing a headache. Yesterday's tracker poll showed the

:15:03. > :15:09.Conservatives are now on 32%, nine points behind Labour. However, it's

:15:09. > :15:19.worse for the Liberal Democrats, they're still on 8%. 1% behind the

:15:19. > :15:20.

:15:20. > :15:25.UKIP, who have pushed the Liberal Weir joined by the Conservative

:15:25. > :15:29.backbencher, Nick Boles. Our other two guests are still here. -- we

:15:29. > :15:34.are joined. What is worse, being seen to be out of touch or

:15:34. > :15:38.incompetent? You do not want to be either. I do not think we are

:15:38. > :15:41.either incompetent or out of touch. I accept that we have a problem in

:15:41. > :15:44.the press and the polls and frankly most Conservative MPs would tell

:15:44. > :15:47.you that we thought we were going to be an unpopular government

:15:47. > :15:53.within months of having to take the difficult decisions we have had to

:15:53. > :15:58.take. What went wrong? You were going reasonably well, given that

:15:58. > :16:03.you were taking these decisions that you think a difficult. It was

:16:03. > :16:06.going reasonably well under the circumstances. And now it has

:16:06. > :16:12.fallen through the floor. What went wrong? I think you cannot predict

:16:12. > :16:15.what the media will do. They run in packs and there is a herd instinct.

:16:15. > :16:19.There was no point complaining about it. We are in that business.

:16:20. > :16:24.What matters is whether the economy grows and whether jobs are created

:16:24. > :16:28.and whether the deficit is stabilised and people in 2015 think

:16:28. > :16:34.that this Government has rescued Britain from the edge of an abyss

:16:34. > :16:37.and got things back on track. That is the only thing that matters.

:16:37. > :16:42.you prepared to accept, is it in the nature of things that you could

:16:43. > :16:48.stay 10, 12, even 15 points behind Labour in the polls for the rest of

:16:48. > :16:53.this year? Of course, we don't want to. Nobody wants that but we could.

:16:53. > :16:57.Margaret Thatcher regularly stayed way behind oppositions and

:16:57. > :17:01.continued to win elections. We should not worry about polls. We

:17:01. > :17:06.should worry if we make mistakes or communicate things badly. We should

:17:06. > :17:10.always be trying to improve of. it a mistake to tell us to fill up

:17:10. > :17:14.our Jerry cans? I think it was not a mistake to send in very clear

:17:14. > :17:17.signal to the most extreme union leader in the country that we were

:17:17. > :17:21.not going to allow him to take the country to ransom. It is no

:17:21. > :17:25.coincidence that he is now settling that and not going to be pushing

:17:25. > :17:30.for a strike. He is going for strikes elsewhere. And we would

:17:30. > :17:35.like to stop that two. That is an interesting answer and I thank you

:17:35. > :17:39.for it. Was it a mistake to tell us to fill up our Gerry cans? When we

:17:39. > :17:43.are facing people like you, we have all said things that we thought it

:17:43. > :17:46.were not the right words. I'm sure that words have been said by

:17:46. > :17:50.ministers that they regret. The fact is, it was right to tell

:17:50. > :17:53.people that there was the threat of a strike and they needed to take

:17:53. > :18:01.precautions. They did take precautions and the union, because

:18:01. > :18:06.we stood up to them, backed off. Given the Government's poll ratings

:18:06. > :18:13.and the things that we have been going through, you must be poised

:18:13. > :18:19.to sweep London, hold on to Glasgow against the SNP, and do really well

:18:19. > :18:25.in England and Wales? I think we have got a chance to criticise what

:18:25. > :18:29.we think this government is getting wrong. At to see whether or not we

:18:29. > :18:34.can translate that into votes in the election. We're not complacent

:18:34. > :18:40.about that. What we have got here is an out-of-touch government.

:18:40. > :18:44.have done that. You must be very confident as a result of the

:18:44. > :18:47.Government's was, that Mr Livingstone will write -- white the

:18:47. > :18:53.floor with Boris Johnson and London, that you will see off the challenge

:18:53. > :18:58.in Glasgow, which is your party's heartland, and it will be happy

:18:58. > :19:06.days here again in England and Wales, agree? You know the polls as

:19:06. > :19:14.well as I do. You know the race in London is tight. We are well ahead

:19:14. > :19:19.in the race for the assembly, bus - - but Boris Johnson is currently

:19:19. > :19:24.head because he is differentiating himself from the Conservative Brant,

:19:24. > :19:28.nationally. We think it is going to be a tight race. We are putting

:19:28. > :19:33.everything in to try and win it. What about Glasgow Q Mack Glasgow

:19:33. > :19:38.is going to be tight because of the different systems that are being

:19:38. > :19:44.used there, and the rise of the Scottish National Party. However, I

:19:44. > :19:47.think the important thing that we have seen over the last period, is

:19:47. > :19:52.that we have seen a government causing of the petrol crisis

:19:52. > :19:55.because it is out of touch and it has caused alarm. I sat on COBRA

:19:55. > :20:00.when we had the first petrol dispute and there is no way that we

:20:00. > :20:04.would have gone out on to the waves and sparked a panic like that.

:20:04. > :20:09.sure you're right. I am absolutely sure you would have done a better.

:20:09. > :20:16.Nick Boles should say it is a mistake. We have done that with him.

:20:16. > :20:20.It is a partisan political point. If you cannot win now, London, a

:20:20. > :20:24.Labour city, with your own party is a point ahead, never mind Mr

:20:24. > :20:30.Livingstone, when your party is 10 points ahead nationally, if you

:20:30. > :20:35.cannot win now when will you went? Let's see what happens with the

:20:35. > :20:39.local elections. -- will you win. I notice you are not asking about how

:20:39. > :20:44.many seats we are able to take in other parts of the country. You

:20:44. > :20:49.have much of London and Scotland. think the transcript will show that,

:20:49. > :20:52.and I remember my exact words, I said "It will be happy days are

:20:52. > :20:58.here again for Labour in England and Wales". I think there will be

:20:58. > :21:02.happy days coming up after May 3rd. We will be happier than the Liberal

:21:02. > :21:07.Democrats and the Conservatives will be. The Lib Dems, you are part

:21:07. > :21:12.of the problem. You leak all the good start -- all the good stuff

:21:12. > :21:17.before the Budget so we know the stuff that is popular, like lower

:21:17. > :21:21.income has been taken out tax and other things. We know of that so,

:21:21. > :21:25.budget, because you have lead to be good stuff, only the bad stuff is

:21:25. > :21:28.left and that is what we concentrate on. It is hardly a

:21:28. > :21:34.secret. We were pressing for big increases in personal tax

:21:34. > :21:42.allowances. He told us it was going to happen, 36 hours before the

:21:42. > :21:50.Budget. You people, Lib Dems leaked to me and others that it was a done

:21:50. > :21:55.deal in the Budget. Disgraceful. never happened under Gordon

:21:55. > :22:00.Brown's(!) Gordon Brown would speak to me, so it never did! There is a

:22:00. > :22:03.lot of froth in all of that. The thing in the Budget that will last,

:22:03. > :22:09.after that has died away, is taking 2 million people out of tax

:22:09. > :22:12.altogether. And cutting the top rate of tax. That is something the

:22:12. > :22:16.Lib Dems have been talking about for years, delivering in government.

:22:16. > :22:21.That is why the Government budget will be seen as being a good one.

:22:21. > :22:25.Why did the Government not prepare the ground for this idea that there

:22:25. > :22:31.should be 8 cat on charity giving, if it meant that the amount of tax

:22:31. > :22:35.you then paid becomes meaningless? It is a perfectly respectable idea.

:22:35. > :22:38.Why did you not lay the groundwork? Instead it came like a bolt out of

:22:38. > :22:43.the blue because his lot were pushing for you to do something

:22:43. > :22:50.about those at the top end. It is true that most of the process of

:22:50. > :22:54.government have had to change because we are red coalition. -- we

:22:54. > :22:59.are in coalition. In this case, the Lib Dems, reasonably and fairly,

:23:00. > :23:05.made the suggestion for a tycoon tax, which means that you're

:23:05. > :23:10.restricting the release that people on high incomes can go for. Rolling

:23:10. > :23:14.the picture is the best thing to do, getting people prepared, while we

:23:14. > :23:17.try to fix a problem? When you come forward with the proposal, it makes

:23:17. > :23:22.sense. In this case, we did not have much time to do that because

:23:22. > :23:25.it was a late gesture. Mild observation would be this, but

:23:25. > :23:30.actually what is revealed is that we are in a halfway house on the

:23:30. > :23:35.process of budget baking. We are no longer in the totally secret,

:23:35. > :23:39.resign if anything gets out, phase foot, but we are not in an open

:23:39. > :23:43.budget process. I think we need to move to a process where more of it

:23:43. > :23:47.is put out there for consultation and discussion before the Budget so

:23:47. > :23:52.that no one is surprised by anything. Light the granny tax?

:23:52. > :23:57.Then you can have a sensible conversation. -- like.

:23:57. > :24:01.Before you go, if Labour are still 10 points ahead, when you get

:24:01. > :24:05.worried? How long can they stay 10 points or 15 points ahead before

:24:05. > :24:11.you get worried? I am not sure I know what the first Thursday in

:24:11. > :24:16.20th May 15 is, but one or two weeks before would be troubling.

:24:16. > :24:21.John Major, remember, you all thought he had lost several hours

:24:21. > :24:26.after the polls had closed, and he went on to secure the highest vote

:24:26. > :24:30.of any Conservative Prime Minister. Your ride. Since you have raised a

:24:30. > :24:34.factual issue, I was doing the coverage that night and one hour

:24:34. > :24:39.after the polls closed, we called John Major as the winner. And that

:24:39. > :24:45.is why you're here now. You mean I have been demoted?!

:24:45. > :24:48.Steve Hilton, the real one, not a guru, he is having his leaving do

:24:48. > :24:54.tonight. David Cameron's guru... Have you been invited?

:24:54. > :24:59.He is heading off to a year's sabbatical in California. It is not

:24:59. > :25:03.as if we are run recession or that unemployment is high for anything

:25:03. > :25:08.like that, why not go to California? What will the Prime

:25:08. > :25:15.Minister give him as a leaving present, I hear you ask. Well, you

:25:15. > :25:18.could go wrong by giving the guru Eight Daily Politics mug. What

:25:18. > :25:26.better way to secure California cocoa water and one of those little

:25:26. > :25:30.beauties. -- sip you're. We don't just give these away to Prime

:25:30. > :25:33.Minister us. They will have to enter guess the year, just like

:25:33. > :25:36.everybody else. I look forward to that. We will

:25:36. > :25:46.remind you how to enter in a minute but let's see if you can remember

:25:46. > :26:06.

:26:06. > :26:16.Arguably, Prime Minister? -- I use a bully. Why not have an inquiry

:26:16. > :26:16.

:26:16. > :26:59.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 42 seconds

:26:59. > :27:04.Unforgettable images. To be in with a chance of winning the Daily

:27:04. > :27:14.Politics mug, send your answer to our special e-mail address: As you

:27:14. > :27:20.can see the terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.

:27:21. > :27:25.You can also win a Daily Politics mug if you can tell us to Steve --

:27:25. > :27:30.Steve Hilton do really is. Big Ben is behind us, which means the Prime

:27:30. > :27:34.Minister's Questions is on its way. James Landale is here to join us.

:27:34. > :27:39.It is a grey April day out there. But if you are Ed Miliband, where

:27:39. > :27:43.you start? You have an embarrassment of riches. You have

:27:43. > :27:46.several weeks of news events to choose from. But I think that is

:27:46. > :27:51.both his opportunity and potentially a weakness because

:27:51. > :27:54.sometimes opposition leaders, when they have too much on their plate,

:27:54. > :28:00.can be scattergun in their approach. Opposition leaders are better if

:28:00. > :28:03.they choose one specific issue and burrow way, making an impact. If

:28:03. > :28:10.you read out a list of the Government's was, you dilute your

:28:10. > :28:16.impact. You travelled with the Prime Minister on his Far East trip.

:28:16. > :28:19.We got the impression that here that he was being chased from

:28:19. > :28:23.Indonesia to Bruma or wherever it was by events back here. Did it

:28:23. > :28:26.seem like that when you were with him? This is what the strips are

:28:26. > :28:35.always like. Particularly a long trip on the other side of the world.

:28:35. > :28:38.-- Burma. Prime Ministers always get caught up. The factor that in.

:28:38. > :28:40.When they talk to people like me, they know that I will ask a

:28:40. > :28:47.question about the trip and a question about charity tax or

:28:47. > :28:50.whatever the issue is. But it did lead to some criticism within

:28:50. > :28:52.newspapers that the Prime Minister is globe-trotting when he should be

:28:53. > :28:56.back here. The Prime Minister insists that being out there is why

:28:56. > :29:03.he should be out there because he believes he is banging the drum for

:29:03. > :29:06.business and creating jobs. But it is not an easy balance. Is the

:29:06. > :29:12.Indonesian President not bemused when you ask him about a plastic

:29:12. > :29:15.tax in Jakarta? I think that test of the translators. What did they

:29:15. > :29:21.translate that as? In terms of the embarrassment of

:29:21. > :29:23.riches, unemployment, to raise a mixed picture. That gives the Prime

:29:23. > :29:28.Minister some momentum, bit of ammunition with which to defend

:29:28. > :29:32.himself. But can the Prime Ministers are always cautious

:29:32. > :29:36.before pleading too much, basing too much on one month's figures.

:29:36. > :29:39.Next month comes up for the month after, and the figures are down and

:29:40. > :29:44.people say, well, hang on, you told us these figures were important and

:29:44. > :29:48.now you're saying it is just one month. The mood from Downing Street

:29:48. > :29:52.is encouraging but there is a long way to go. But it has become quite

:29:52. > :29:56.personal. Mr Cameron is being accused of being out of touch, it

:29:56. > :30:02.is in having a Downing Street of cronies, that is the other

:30:02. > :30:07.criticism. Chums is the phrase a mode. I have cronies and you have

:30:07. > :30:13.chums. -- alarm mode. Is that getting home? They are aware that

:30:13. > :30:18.there is an issue but they need to address. The difficult thing is how

:30:18. > :30:22.to. Whenever they talk about taxation, for example, you sock and

:30:22. > :30:31.amount of discomfort within Downing Street, and George Osborne about

:30:31. > :30:37.exactly how to handle it. Let us go I'm sure the whole House will pay

:30:37. > :30:41.tribute to those servicemen who have fallen since we last met.

:30:41. > :30:47.Captain Rupert Bowers, from 2nd battalion the Mercian Regiment.

:30:47. > :30:55.Sergeant Luke Taylor from the Royal Marines, Lance Corporal Michael

:30:55. > :31:00.Foley -- Foley from the Adjutant General's Corps and corporal Jack

:31:00. > :31:05.Stanley from the Queen's Royal Hussars. We are endebted to their

:31:05. > :31:08.selfless service and we send our heart-felt condolences to families,

:31:08. > :31:13.friends and colleagues of these men who made the ultimate sacrifice for

:31:13. > :31:16.our country. They will not be forgotten. This morning I had

:31:16. > :31:25.meetings with colleagues and others and I shall have further such

:31:25. > :31:29.meetings later today. I want to offer my condolences to the

:31:29. > :31:31.families. Mr Speaker, in Northern Ireland party political traditions

:31:31. > :31:35.are not subject to the same publication rules as those in the

:31:35. > :31:38.rest of the UK. However, my own party has delivered on our

:31:39. > :31:42.commitment to publish the relevant information on a voluntary basis.

:31:42. > :31:47.Will the Prime Minister commit to bring is our rules into line with

:31:47. > :31:50.the rest of the UK and further will he demonstrate his own commitment

:31:50. > :31:52.to openess and transparency by following our lead and publishing

:31:52. > :31:59.voluntarily lists of donors to the Conservative Party in Northern

:31:59. > :32:04.Ireland? Very happy. We publish those donor lists and quite rightly

:32:04. > :32:07.so. As the honourable lady knows, the last Government passed

:32:07. > :32:10.legislation with specific treatment for Northern Ireland for reasons

:32:10. > :32:15.which are quite well known. We want the parties to show the same

:32:15. > :32:20.approach as in the rest of the UK. If parties choose to publish the

:32:20. > :32:25.information on a voluntary basis then that's very very welcome, so I

:32:25. > :32:33.welcome what the party has done, leading by example. Following the

:32:33. > :32:38.unlawful killing of my constituent as a result of out-of-hours GPs

:32:38. > :32:42.being unable to speak English, can we strengthen controls on foreign

:32:42. > :32:46.doctors? GPs working in England should be able to speak English,

:32:46. > :32:52.does the Prime Minister agree? And that freedom of movement within the

:32:52. > :32:54.EU is not an excuse for compromising patient safety? He's

:32:54. > :32:58.entirely right and today's announcement makes clear that

:32:58. > :33:01.doctors shouldn't be operating in the NHS in our country unless they

:33:01. > :33:05.can speak English. Under the proposals, senior doctors need to

:33:05. > :33:07.assess whether the doctor has the necessary language skills to be

:33:08. > :33:16.able to communicate effectively with patients. If they can't do

:33:16. > :33:23.that, they can't practice. Let me join the Prime Minister in paying

:33:23. > :33:31.tribute to captain Rupert Bowers, sergeant Luke Taylor, Lance

:33:31. > :33:36.Corporal ral Michael Foley, and -- korp Michael Foley and Jack Stanley.

:33:36. > :33:42.I join the Prime Minister in saying they showed the most enormous

:33:42. > :33:46.courage and bravery and owl -- all our thoughts are with their family

:33:46. > :33:55.and friends. Can the Prime Minister confirm that the cut in 50 pence

:33:55. > :34:01.tax rate will be worth 40,000 a year to the country's millionaires?

:34:01. > :34:07.It will be paid five times over by the richest in the country. I

:34:07. > :34:12.notice he doesn't ask about unemployment. Every month when

:34:12. > :34:19.unemployment has risen he's leapt to that box to leap on the bad news,

:34:19. > :34:25.and today we see unemployment fall by 35,000, employment up by 53,000

:34:25. > :34:27.and no welcome from the honourable gentleman. Doesn't that show all of

:34:27. > :34:37.his priorities? Will he welcome the increase of people employed in the

:34:37. > :34:39.country? Only this Prime Minister could think it was a cause for

:34:40. > :34:49.celebration that over one million young people are still out of work

:34:50. > :34:50.

:34:50. > :34:56.in this country. It's no wonder people think he's out of touch. And

:34:56. > :35:04.the House will have noted that he couldn't deny that Britain's 14,000

:35:04. > :35:09.billionaires are getting a �40,000 cut in their income tax rate. As

:35:09. > :35:12.for the figures produced for the Budget even the Select Committee

:35:13. > :35:17.says they're bogus figures today, so millionaires are winners from

:35:17. > :35:22.this Budget, but what about everyone else? Will he confirm that

:35:22. > :35:29.by freezing the personal tax allowance year on year on year, .4

:35:29. > :35:35.million pensioners will lose as much as �320 a year? What this

:35:35. > :35:41.Budget is about is actually cutting taxes for 24 million working people.

:35:41. > :35:45.Taking two million people out of tax. Freezing the council tax.

:35:45. > :35:49.Cutting corporation tax so we are competitive with the rest of the

:35:49. > :35:53.world and for pensioners we have increased the basic pension by

:35:53. > :36:00.�5.30 a week, far more than Labour would have ever done so, but I have

:36:00. > :36:04.to ask him this: if he's concerned about the 45 pence top rate of tax,

:36:04. > :36:09.perhaps he can explain why his amendment that he's asking everyone

:36:09. > :36:19.to vote on for at 4pm, would get rid of the 45 pence top rate of tax

:36:19. > :36:23.

:36:23. > :36:28.and leave us with a 40 pence top rate of tax. It's here! He hasn't

:36:28. > :36:35.had much to do over the last month. Some of us have been quite busy.

:36:35. > :36:39.He's had almost nothing to do, but even that he has to do he's

:36:40. > :36:46.incompetent at. The Prime Minister is talking rubbish as always.

:36:46. > :36:51.However, on the issue of pensions, he points to the increase in the

:36:51. > :36:57.basic state pension. I do say to him, only this Prime Minister could

:36:57. > :37:04.try and con Britain's pensioners by taking the credit for high

:37:04. > :37:08.inflation. And everybody will have noticed he didn't deny that

:37:09. > :37:13.Britain's pensioners are seeing a tax increase year on year. It's not

:37:13. > :37:17.just pensioners he's trying to con. It's families with children. Will

:37:17. > :37:21.he confirm that according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, as a

:37:21. > :37:27.result of all his tax changes from this April, families with children

:37:27. > :37:32.will be over �500 a year worse off? I notice he's moved off the top

:37:32. > :37:37.rate of tax, because he doesn't want to talk about it. I've got to

:37:37. > :37:41.ask him, he's got to withdraw his amendment, because if he's

:37:41. > :37:48.successful he'll give us a 40 pence tax rate. The other reason he

:37:48. > :37:52.doesn't want to talk about the top rate of tax is because he can't

:37:52. > :37:57.convince Labour's candidate for Mayor of London to pay his taxes.

:37:57. > :38:01.Now, when it comes to pensioners, what we have done is increase the

:38:01. > :38:06.basic state pension, we have kept all the pensioners' benefits and

:38:06. > :38:11.the freeze in age-related allowances means there will be no

:38:11. > :38:18.cash losses. Compare that with a pathetic 75 pence increase for

:38:18. > :38:23.pensioners. We remember what the Budgets did. Will he condemn

:38:23. > :38:32.Labour's candidate for Mayor of London, who wouldn't pay his taxes?

:38:32. > :38:34.In case - he's very excited today, in case he's forgotten it's Prime

:38:34. > :38:44.Minister's questions. The clues in the name. I ask the questions and

:38:44. > :38:46.

:38:46. > :38:52.he is supposed to answer them. No answer on pensioners. No answer on

:38:52. > :38:58.families. What about charities? The Prime Minister's big idea was the

:38:58. > :39:05.big society. But since the Budget - I don't know why he's taking advice

:39:05. > :39:12.from the part-time Chancellor sitting next to him. I wonder which

:39:12. > :39:18.job he's doing today?! Since the Budget the Government has managed

:39:18. > :39:22.to insult people who give to charity and insulted the charities

:39:22. > :39:29.themselves by implying they're bogus. The Prime Minister claimed

:39:29. > :39:33.he worked on the Budget line by line. Did he know when he signed

:39:33. > :39:40.off the Budget that it represented a hit of as much as �500 million on

:39:40. > :39:43.Britain's charities? The figures are completely wrong, but let me

:39:43. > :39:48.tell the Right Honourable gentleman firstly, no defence of Ken

:39:48. > :39:53.Livingstone. Not a word. What this is all about is making sure that

:39:53. > :39:56.the riechest people in our country do pay their taxes -- richest

:39:57. > :40:03.people in our country do pay their taxes. Last year there were over

:40:03. > :40:06.300 people earning over �1 million, who paid a rate of tax of 10%. I

:40:06. > :40:11.don't that's good enough and we have a Labour candidate for Mayor

:40:11. > :40:15.of London, who is paying less tax on his earnings than the person who

:40:15. > :40:24.cleans his office. I think that is disgraceful. Why wouldn't he

:40:24. > :40:32.condemn it? Mr Speaker, this is - THE SPEAKER: Order, the usual level

:40:32. > :40:37.of orchestration from the usual suspect on the Government

:40:37. > :40:41.backbenchs. Be quiet Mr Burns, you are the minister for health, get

:40:41. > :40:48.better. What a desperate Prime Minister who can't justify his own

:40:48. > :40:53.Budget. If he want to talk about the Mayor, we have a candidate who

:40:53. > :40:57.will cut Tube fares and make rents fairer and bring back EMA. What has

:40:57. > :41:03.he got, a candidate for Mayor of London who is out of touch and

:41:03. > :41:07.arguing for the cut in the 50 pence tax rate. Mr Speaker, the reality

:41:07. > :41:11.on charities is that he's not making the rich worst off, he's

:41:11. > :41:18.making charities worst off -- worse off. Over the last month we have

:41:18. > :41:28.seen the charity tax shambles, the churches' tax shambles, the caravan

:41:28. > :41:31.

:41:31. > :41:34.tax shambles, and the pastie tax shambles. Mr Speaker, we are all

:41:34. > :41:39.keen to hear the Prime Minister's view as to why he thinks four weeks

:41:39. > :41:44.on from the Budget even people within Downing Street are calling

:41:44. > :41:49.it an omnishambles Budget. We have got a Mayor of London who pays his

:41:49. > :41:54.taxes. Nothing from him about unemployment. Nothing about the

:41:54. > :41:57.rich needing to pay their taxes. Nothing about Ken Livingstone's

:41:57. > :42:03.responsibilities. He asks about the budget. This Budget cut taxes for

:42:03. > :42:07.24 million people. This Budget cut corporation tax. This Budget made

:42:07. > :42:11.Britain competitive. He talks about my last month. I accept a tough

:42:11. > :42:18.month. Let's look at his. He lost the Bradford by-election. That was

:42:18. > :42:23.a great success. I ask to -- I have to say he has given one person a

:42:23. > :42:28.job opportunity, George Galloway! He lost the Bradford by-election.

:42:28. > :42:31.He showed complete weakness when had came to the Unite trade union

:42:31. > :42:39.and fuel strike and he's got a Mayor of London who won't pay taxes.

:42:39. > :42:47.That's his last month. As ever, completely hopeless. He talks about

:42:47. > :42:51.the fuel strike. I am not going to take any lectures on industrial

:42:51. > :42:55.relations from a Government and Prime Minister that calls caused

:42:55. > :43:02.panic at the pumps. That is the reality. Had he gets to his feet

:43:02. > :43:06.let him apologise for the gross irresponsibility. Let him apologise

:43:06. > :43:16.for the Cabinet minister who caused that panic at the pumps and for him.

:43:16. > :43:23.

:43:23. > :43:27.The reality is - he should calm down, Mr Speeber. -- Mr Speaker.

:43:27. > :43:31.This Budget comprehensively fails to test the fairness and it failed

:43:31. > :43:34.the test of competence. We have a Prime Minister who is unfair, out

:43:34. > :43:40.of touch and incompetent. Never mind we are all in it together.

:43:40. > :43:44.When he's going to get a grip on his Government? He won't take any

:43:44. > :43:49.lectures on the fuel strike, because he's in the pockets of the

:43:50. > :43:53.people who called the fuel strike. That's right. They vote for

:43:53. > :43:55.policies and sponsors his members of Parliament and got him

:43:56. > :43:57.electioned. Absolutely irresponsible. That's what we've

:43:57. > :44:07.heard once again from the honourable gentleman. Not good

:44:07. > :44:08.

:44:08. > :44:15.enough to run the opposition, not good enough to run the country.

:44:15. > :44:20.Does my Right Honourable friend noted that Standard and Poor's have

:44:20. > :44:25.confirmed a stable outlook on the UK's AAA rating and said, "We could

:44:25. > :44:31.lower the ratings if we came to the conclusion if the pace and extent

:44:31. > :44:34.of fiscal consolidation was slowing." In other words, if the

:44:34. > :44:37.discredited parties of the party opposite were adopted. He makes an

:44:38. > :44:41.important point, which is in this week of all weeks, we are getting

:44:41. > :44:45.yet more reminders from other countries in Europe of the

:44:45. > :44:49.importance of getting on top of your deficit, on top of your debts

:44:49. > :44:52.and having a proper plan to deliver that. That's what needs to happen.

:44:52. > :44:55.It's welcome what standards and poorz have done. -- Standard and

:44:55. > :44:58.Poor's have done. We need to keep the interest rates low to make sure

:44:58. > :45:02.we deliver the growth the economy needs and it's absolutely

:45:02. > :45:08.extraordinary that the leader of House of Commons has gone on

:45:08. > :45:17.television today calling for higher interest rates - the Shadow Leader.

:45:17. > :45:22.Better go and look at the transcript. The First Minister of

:45:22. > :45:28.Northern Ireland requested that the Prime Minister meet the families of

:45:28. > :45:32.the ten innocent families of a massacre in 1976. I know the Prime

:45:32. > :45:42.Minister met other families and he desires to be balanced. Can he

:45:42. > :45:43.

:45:43. > :45:47.assure me he will meet these The Kingsmill massacre was --

:45:47. > :45:51.massacre was an appalling event and I will arrange a meeting with a

:45:51. > :45:54.family and the Northern Ireland secretary. I will attend a possible

:45:54. > :45:58.for stop the Prime Minister will be aware that there is no VAT

:45:58. > :46:07.chargeable on caviar and yet the Government is proposing to put VAT

:46:07. > :46:13.on the Cornish pasty. Why is that fair? I understand that feelings in

:46:13. > :46:17.Cornwall run high on this. I think it is unfair that products sold in

:46:17. > :46:21.a fish and chip shop, subject to a tee, the same projects can be sold

:46:21. > :46:28.us supermarkets not sold -- not subject to VAT. I think that is

:46:29. > :46:31.right and we should redraw the boundaries. While the Prime

:46:31. > :46:35.Minister is entertaining millionaire party donors at cosy

:46:35. > :46:38.kitchen suppers at his Downing Street flat, thousands of ordinary

:46:38. > :46:44.people are queuing up for banks because they cannot afford to feed

:46:44. > :46:48.their families. What do those people worst hit by the cuts and

:46:48. > :46:51.the rise in food prices have to do to get a quiet word in the Prime

:46:51. > :46:57.Minister's here? Is there any chance he could invite some of them

:46:57. > :47:00.round for supper. This government has done -- made the biggest

:47:00. > :47:06.increase in child tax credits, going to the poorest in the country.

:47:06. > :47:12.In April, there was a �255 increase, the largest ever increase. There is

:47:12. > :47:15.a further increase this year of �135. Added to that, 2 million of

:47:15. > :47:18.the poorest people are now out of income tax altogether. One of the

:47:18. > :47:25.things that would hit families hardest is an increase in interest

:47:25. > :47:28.rates, which is now the official policy of the opposition. Given a

:47:28. > :47:33.tour of hundred jobs at Group Lotus in south Norfolk may be at risk

:47:33. > :47:35.following the company's written change of ownership, will the Prime

:47:35. > :47:40.Minister put all possible pressure on the Malaysian government to

:47:40. > :47:45.ensure that the company only permit the sale of the business to buyers

:47:45. > :47:48.who wish to see it as a going concern in Norfolk? I Widders -- I

:47:48. > :47:53.raised this issue with the Malaysian Prime Minister and with

:47:53. > :47:57.the new Malaysian owners of the parent company. Lotus makes a key

:47:58. > :48:02.contribution to the UK automotive sector which is doing well. I want

:48:02. > :48:06.to see Lotus succeed. I want to see them having a secure future. We are

:48:06. > :48:12.in contact with the company at wallet and the situation closely,

:48:12. > :48:19.making sure they know about the growth fund that is available.

:48:19. > :48:23.lot budget makes 230,000 additional pensioners pay tax and will bring

:48:23. > :48:27.500,000 extra parents into the self-assessment regime because of

:48:27. > :48:31.tax on child benefit, yet this week we have heard that 10,000 members

:48:31. > :48:35.of staff at HMRC will be cut. Isn't it the case that the Chancellor is

:48:35. > :48:38.so incompetent he will not have the staff to be able to deliver his own

:48:38. > :48:43.budget plan to him that we have actually increased staffing levels

:48:43. > :48:47.to make sure we crack down on the sort of tax avoidance that, frankly,

:48:47. > :48:56.has been shown by the honourable lady's candidate for the mayor of

:48:56. > :48:59.London. That is what it has come to. That is the measures we are taking.

:48:59. > :49:02.Would my right honourable friend agree with me that service

:49:02. > :49:07.companies set up by Labour politicians to disguise their own

:49:08. > :49:11.hypocrisy on tax are a disgraceful betrayal of real entrepreneurs up

:49:11. > :49:15.and down the country? I think my honourable friend makes a good

:49:15. > :49:18.point. They do not want to hear it because the man they are putting

:49:18. > :49:22.forward to be Mayor of London has set up a company to fuel -- fund

:49:22. > :49:26.all this money into and is paying a lower tax rate than the people who

:49:26. > :49:31.work for him at the GLA. It is disgraceful and even at this stage,

:49:31. > :49:37.I would call on the Labour leader to get the Labour candidate to

:49:37. > :49:41.publish all this information so that we can see the taxi is paying.

:49:41. > :49:46.-- tax he is paying. Does the Prime Minister agreed that the specialist

:49:46. > :49:50.centre in Oxford currently facing closure does outstanding work

:49:50. > :49:54.unlocking the isolation of children with acute communication

:49:54. > :49:58.difficulties? Given the pressure charities are under, will be Prime

:49:58. > :50:03.Minister step in and pulled together some bridging finance so

:50:03. > :50:07.that this outstanding centre can continue helping the children and

:50:07. > :50:12.young people who need it so much? The honourable gentleman knows that

:50:12. > :50:15.I know this centre. I visited it in the past and I am happy to look at

:50:15. > :50:21.him -- look with him at what can be done to help the centre and the

:50:21. > :50:26.good work it does, particularly for disabled children. The Prime

:50:26. > :50:30.Minister wants to cut down on tax avoidance, so what does he think

:50:30. > :50:35.about Ken Livingstone, who said "I get loads of money from different

:50:35. > :50:40.sources. And I give it to an accountant and they manage it." Is

:50:40. > :50:44.that modern socialism for you? do not like it. I thought the

:50:44. > :50:47.Labour Party wanted rich people to pay their taxes properly. That is

:50:48. > :50:55.what we have insured through this budget and through the extra

:50:55. > :51:01.resources. So why the deafening silence? Why not a combination of

:51:01. > :51:05.this appalling behaviour? -- a condemnation. Does the Prime

:51:05. > :51:10.Minister share my concern at the actions of the Northern Ireland

:51:10. > :51:15.Attorney General in using an outdated and discredited block of

:51:15. > :51:20.disrespect in the court to invoke contempt proceedings against the

:51:21. > :51:24.former Northern Ireland Secretary, for comments in his memoir?

:51:24. > :51:28.Shouldn't respect for the independence of the judiciary be

:51:28. > :51:34.balanced by the rights of individuals to fair comment on that

:51:34. > :51:37.judiciary? I do have a great deal of sympathy with what the

:51:37. > :51:40.honourable gentleman says. Parliamentary privilege, quite

:51:40. > :51:43.rightly, allows Honourable Members to express their views in

:51:43. > :51:46.Parliament. In terms of what is said his side of Parliament, there

:51:47. > :51:49.are occasions as we know where judges make critical remarks about

:51:49. > :51:53.politicians and there are occasional remarks the politicians

:51:53. > :51:56.make that a critical about judges. To me, this is part of life in a

:51:56. > :52:01.modern democracy and I think we ought to keep these things out of

:52:01. > :52:09.the courtroom. Like the Prime Minister, I welcome the strides

:52:09. > :52:14.towards democracy been made in Burma. I welcome his efforts to

:52:14. > :52:16.achieve sanctions. With a decision on proposals due next week, will he

:52:16. > :52:22.ensure that measures to monitor human rights in Burma are included

:52:22. > :52:26.in the discussions? I think my honourable friend is right. While

:52:26. > :52:30.it is clear that the Burmese regime is making some steps towards

:52:30. > :52:34.greater freedom and democracy, we should be extremely cautious and

:52:34. > :52:38.extremely careful. We want to see a further release of political

:52:38. > :52:42.prisoners, and the resolution of ethnic conflict. We want to see the

:52:42. > :52:46.democratisation process continue. That is why we are pushing for the

:52:46. > :52:50.suspension of sanctions, excluding the arms embargo that should stay,

:52:50. > :52:53.rather than lifting of sanctions. We have support from that position

:52:53. > :52:58.for most of the other leading European countries and I hope we

:52:58. > :53:02.can deliver it. -- from most. That would be the right thing, back in

:53:02. > :53:10.progress, and strongly supporting what Hang Seng Suchi has set

:53:10. > :53:14.herself as the right approach. My constituents are angry that his

:53:14. > :53:18.priority in the Budget was to give a �40,000 tax cuts to millionaires.

:53:18. > :53:22.Will he tell the House that as a result of the reduction in the top

:53:22. > :53:31.rate of income tax, how much collectively will his cabinet be

:53:31. > :53:36.better off? Let me make this point but the top rate of tax. The party

:53:36. > :53:39.opposite had 13 years to introduce a 50 pence top rate of tax and they

:53:39. > :53:44.did it one month before a general election that they knew they were

:53:44. > :53:53.going to lose. This top rate of tax has not raise any money and the 45

:53:53. > :53:59.p rate but we have is higher than what you had for 12 of you 13 years.

:53:59. > :54:03.-- you are 13 years. Earlier this week, an article appeared in the

:54:03. > :54:06.Independent about how many South Asian women find traditionally that

:54:06. > :54:12.their votes have been hijacked through abuse of the postal voting

:54:12. > :54:15.system. Would my right honourable friend look at the issue of

:54:15. > :54:19.revisiting postal votes on demand, not only to strengthen our

:54:19. > :54:23.democracy and trust in it, but to ensure that all voters have a vote,

:54:23. > :54:31.and that particularly in the case of the South Asian young voters,

:54:31. > :54:34.their votes are not Solon. -- not stolen. I am happy to look at the

:54:34. > :54:39.issue of postal voting but I think that first of all what we need to

:54:39. > :54:43.do is sort out the issue of individual voter registration. I

:54:44. > :54:47.think this is vitally important, to make sure we do not have a system

:54:47. > :54:51.that allows lot of people to be locked on to a register when

:54:51. > :54:57.actually nobody is living at the premises. There is growing evidence

:54:57. > :55:01.of abuse and it is right that we are acting on it. Two years ago,

:55:01. > :55:04.the Prime Minister said "It is fundamental to me that people who

:55:04. > :55:08.have worked hard all their lives are now drawing their pension and

:55:08. > :55:12.deserve to be treated with respect." Does he think that trying

:55:12. > :55:16.to sell his granny tax as a simplification is treating

:55:16. > :55:22.pensioners with respect? Let me explain what we're doing. We are

:55:22. > :55:25.increasing the basic state pension by �5.30 every week. This is not an

:55:25. > :55:29.increase that the party opposite would have made. At the same time,

:55:29. > :55:33.we are saving the winter fuel payments, the cold weather payments,

:55:33. > :55:36.the free television licence, the free bus pass and the other

:55:36. > :55:40.pensioner benefits. That is what this government is doing at the

:55:40. > :55:43.same time, we are examining the case for a single tier pension of

:55:43. > :55:49.around �140 each. I would have thought that is something that

:55:49. > :55:52.members on all sides of the House would welcome, because it would be

:55:52. > :55:58.a well-paid basic pension that would encourage people to save

:55:59. > :56:02.before they become pensioners and their welcome reform. -- a welcome

:56:03. > :56:06.reform. 30 years ago, a British toddler went missing in Germany and

:56:06. > :56:09.due to the mishandling of this case by the British military police, her

:56:09. > :56:14.parents still have no idea what happened to her. Will the Prime

:56:14. > :56:16.Minister agree to meet with the family, to hear their calls for an

:56:16. > :56:22.independent inquiry into the bungling of this investigation, and

:56:22. > :56:26.give them the closure they so desperately need. I will certainly

:56:26. > :56:29.look at the case and see what more we can do. Cases of missing people

:56:29. > :56:33.are completely tragic and the family does not get closure, as

:56:33. > :56:42.this case and other ones show. I am happy to look at the case and get

:56:42. > :56:45.back to her. Churches and places of worship including many in Blackpool

:56:46. > :56:50.do it immensely valuable work adapting their buildings for

:56:50. > :56:56.community use. Why is the Prime Minister backing a 20% VAT rate in

:56:56. > :57:00.the Budget on alterations to listed buildings which will cost many of

:57:00. > :57:04.those churches and places of worship millions of pounds? The

:57:04. > :57:08.Church of England, it is estimated, �10 million. That is infuriating

:57:08. > :57:14.them and the charities concerned and shooting his "big society" in

:57:15. > :57:18.the third. -- in the foot. There is a basic unfairness and the current

:57:18. > :57:26.system. Repairs to churches are subject to VAT. Alterations to

:57:26. > :57:30.listed buildings are not subject to VAT. That means that you pay VAT on

:57:30. > :57:34.repair to a church, but if you put a swimming pool in a listed Tudor

:57:34. > :57:44.house, you do not pay VAT. If we need to redraw boundaries. We will

:57:44. > :57:56.

:57:56. > :57:59.be putting money aside to make sure to hear Mr Douglas Carswell. A few

:57:59. > :58:04.weeks ago when this House, I asked the Prime Minister to what extent

:58:04. > :58:07.he believed the Whitehall machine, the Sir Humphrey factor, was

:58:07. > :58:11.frustrating reform. The short answer was that it was not.

:58:11. > :58:15.According to the Financial Times, in Malaysia last week, he said "As

:58:15. > :58:24.Prime Minister I can tell you that Yes Minister is true to life." Can

:58:24. > :58:26.you tell us what has happened to change his mind? There are few

:58:26. > :58:36.occasions when I think the honourable gentleman needs a sense

:58:36. > :58:37.

:58:37. > :58:40.of humour. The Prime Minister's official

:58:40. > :58:46.spokesman argued last week that rich individuals avoiding tax by

:58:46. > :58:50.giving to charities which do not do a great amount of charitable work.

:58:50. > :58:53.Can be Prime Minister name any of these charity is? The figures I

:58:53. > :59:00.gave earlier show that last year 300 people earning over �1 million

:59:00. > :59:04.in our country got there rate of tax down to 10%. I think we need to

:59:04. > :59:07.make sure that yes, we protect charities and encourage

:59:07. > :59:11.philanthropic giving, but we make sure that rich people are paying

:59:11. > :59:14.their fair share of taxes. I would have thought that would have been a

:59:14. > :59:20.principle that would get some attraction on all sides of the

:59:20. > :59:27.House. Does my right honourable friend agree that universities

:59:27. > :59:31.should be free to admit students on the basis of merit? I think my

:59:31. > :59:35.honourable friend is entirely right. It is welcome that a greater

:59:35. > :59:39.proportion of 18 year-olds are now applying to university than any

:59:39. > :59:47.time under -- in the last 30 years. No one pays upfront for tuition or

:59:47. > :59:50.other fees. He is right, university entry is about academic merit.

:59:50. > :59:54.The Deputy Prime Minister recently said that we have succeeded to pull

:59:54. > :59:57.the economy back from the brink. With a record levels of youth

:59:57. > :00:02.unemployment and growth lower than forecast, and inflation up, does

:00:02. > :00:05.this not show that the Deputy Prime Minister is a Prime Minister's --

:00:05. > :00:10.the Prime Minister's Broken Arrow. He does not work and the Prime

:00:10. > :00:16.Minister cannot fire him. welcome of the fact that the

:00:16. > :00:19.unemployment has fallen, and youth unemployment has come down. It is

:00:19. > :00:23.too high and there is more that needs to be done but let me bring

:00:23. > :00:26.the House up to date with one particular scheme. The work-

:00:26. > :00:30.experience scheme. Evidence is growing that 50% of young people

:00:31. > :00:35.going into that scheme are off benefits within six months. That

:00:35. > :00:39.means it is 20 times more cost- effective than the Future Jobs Fund,

:00:39. > :00:49.which is part of the youth contract that the Deputy Prime Minister has

:00:49. > :00:49.

:00:49. > :00:52.been spearheading. Today, a group of MPs... Members

:00:52. > :00:58.shouldn't be yelling at the honourable lady. That is very

:00:58. > :01:03.discourteous. I want to hear what she has to say. Here, here! Perhaps

:01:03. > :01:07.they should listen first before yelling. Today, a cross-party group

:01:07. > :01:11.of MPs from right across the political spectrum published a

:01:11. > :01:15.report into something that is incredibly important to many of us,

:01:15. > :01:18.how we keep our children say fall line. We think that internet

:01:18. > :01:21.service providers should do more and that the Government should

:01:21. > :01:25.deliver a very strong lead on this issue. Would the Prime Minister

:01:25. > :01:29.undertake to read the summary of the report, because I know he is

:01:29. > :01:33.busy, and perhaps meet with us to discuss the recommendations? I am

:01:33. > :01:37.grateful to the honourable lady. She dropped off a full copy of the

:01:37. > :01:42.report to my office this morning. As a parent and a politician, I am

:01:42. > :01:45.keen that we help protect people from this sort of material. I have

:01:45. > :01:49.got together some of the technology and telephony companies and got

:01:49. > :01:52.them to look at offering a choice of blocking all adult and age

:01:53. > :01:56.restricted content on their home internet. I think if we start

:01:56. > :02:04.working with the companies to deliver the sort of changes, we can

:02:04. > :02:08.protect more people. The government said it wants to simplify the tax

:02:08. > :02:11.system, so why introduce changes to child benefits that will bring what

:02:11. > :02:17.the Treasury Select Committee has today said will create further

:02:17. > :02:19.uncertainty? I will say to the honourable lady, who did good work

:02:20. > :02:24.as head of the Child poverty Action Group, we have to make difficult

:02:24. > :02:29.decisions to deal with the debt and the deficit. I think it is not a

:02:29. > :02:32.sensible to ask people who and �20,000, �30,000, to pay taxes so

:02:32. > :02:35.that people sitting in this House can get child benefit. I do nothing

:02:35. > :02:38.that is fair and I think members opposite will walk through the

:02:38. > :02:48.lobby tomorrow for something that they will financially benefit from,

:02:48. > :02:53.

:02:54. > :03:03.but I think it is profoundly wrong. Order, order. I want to accommodate

:03:04. > :03:07.

:03:07. > :03:12.backbenchers. In these Georgia, the vast majority of manufacturing is

:03:12. > :03:16.located. Will the Prime Minister listen to the vast majority of my

:03:16. > :03:21.constituents, I think again about this tax which will cripple the

:03:21. > :03:27.suffering industry? I listened carefully to the point that he make.

:03:27. > :03:33.-- to the point that he made. This is an issue about how we trawl the

:03:33. > :03:36.VAT boundaries fairly. I do not think it is fair the table by a

:03:37. > :03:42.caravan pays VAT but a stationary caravan does not. No one is talking

:03:42. > :03:51.about putting VAT on park homes that are people's permanent homes.

:03:51. > :03:58.This is about a fair drawing of the boundaries. As I was saying, Mr

:03:58. > :04:03.Speaker, there is an iron-clad consensus across the three

:04:03. > :04:06.frontbenchers about what they now call a mission, but given the

:04:06. > :04:13.amount of blood on the ground and the rapidly deteriorating military

:04:13. > :04:17.situation, most of us call the situation a war in Afghanistan. In

:04:18. > :04:22.the wake of Mrs Gillard's decision to accelerate the withdrawal of

:04:22. > :04:28.Australian forces from that war, and in the wake of the Bradford

:04:28. > :04:34.West by-election, will the Prime Minister reconsider his current

:04:34. > :04:37.planning on our withdrawal from this bloody more of a Afghanistan?

:04:37. > :04:41.Let me congratulate the honourable gentleman on his stunning by-

:04:41. > :04:46.election victory and his return to this House of Commons. I know that

:04:46. > :04:49.he always speaks with great power and force. But on this issue, I

:04:49. > :04:54.have to say I profoundly disagree with him. Our troops are in

:04:54. > :04:58.Afghanistan, not fighting a war against Islam, but at the

:04:58. > :05:02.invitation of an Islamic government and under a UN resolution to try

:05:02. > :05:06.and help that country to have paid a peaceful, prosperous and stable

:05:06. > :05:10.future. He knows the dangers of walking away from Afghanistan and

:05:10. > :05:14.leading that country to become the terrace supporting haven that it

:05:14. > :05:18.did under the Taliban. We must not make that mistake again and I would

:05:18. > :05:28.urge him not to play to the gallery on this issue but to speak up for

:05:28. > :05:35.

:05:35. > :05:42.the work our forces are doing to make Afghanistan a safe country?

:05:42. > :05:47.George Galloway, the new kid on the block, the Prime Minister pleading

:05:47. > :05:54.for him not to play to the gallery. If the plea is he did, you will

:05:54. > :06:04.hear it. It is as if the budget happened yesterday. Prime

:06:04. > :06:07.

:06:07. > :06:13.Minister's Questions were dominated There were the many taxes and we

:06:13. > :06:17.learned that caviar has no VAT at all. But a Cornish pasty will. News

:06:17. > :06:21.to most of us. At least I think it was! Maybe if you heated it up you

:06:21. > :06:31.would have to pay VAT on that too. There's no doubt you'll tweet and

:06:31. > :06:31.

:06:31. > :06:36.e-mail us and let us know about that. We'll hear about how - what

:06:36. > :06:42.you made of this. As always, people were pretty divided in terms of

:06:42. > :06:48.performance of David Cameron and Ed Miliband, but this from Huntingdon,

:06:48. > :06:53."I cannot believe the inept attitude of Mr Cameron and his

:06:53. > :06:57.unsurprising support for the cut in the 50 pence tax rate. The snub to

:06:57. > :07:00.celebrate unemployment due to a small drop in the number which is

:07:00. > :07:05.probably a seasonal adjustment." This is from Lorne that, "I thought

:07:05. > :07:15.the idea was for the Prime Minister to answer questions and there were

:07:15. > :07:17.

:07:17. > :07:21.quite a few about this. The first question was swept aside." This one

:07:21. > :07:25.here, "David Cameron's language is very off-putting. He needs to

:07:25. > :07:31.answer questions and not just use endless words about him like

:07:32. > :07:35.pathetic and incompetent. When he was in his shoes he used to

:07:35. > :07:40.endlessly chastise Gordon Brown." Then this about Ed Miliband from

:07:40. > :07:44.Kent, "The break hasn't done much for Ed. He simply blew his chances

:07:45. > :07:49.today. David Cameron was like a bulldozer." This from Manchester,

:07:49. > :07:57."How Ed Miliband can talk about helping millionaires when he was

:07:57. > :08:07.against removing tax credits like himself is beyond a joke." Helen,

:08:07. > :08:13.

:08:13. > :08:23."Ed's on form all right - bad form. He still can't score." That wasn't

:08:23. > :08:23.

:08:23. > :08:28.too bad!? James, you and I have covered many, many Budgets. I can't

:08:29. > :08:35.remember one which is still being talked about by such intense - with

:08:35. > :08:38.such intensity four weeks on from the Budget and it's not even the

:08:38. > :08:45.overall Mac economic stance or the fiscal policy or general monetary

:08:45. > :08:54.policy, it's the kind of bells and whistles of the Budget. It's the

:08:54. > :08:58.things that are tacked on to the Budget -- macroeconomics. Can you?

:08:58. > :09:03.In our trade journalism we story the story that keeps on giving.

:09:03. > :09:07.in a good way for the Government. We should market this point, a new

:09:07. > :09:13.phrase which has formally entered the lexicon, which is omnishambles.

:09:13. > :09:21.A phrase that was originally coined by the television programme The

:09:21. > :09:26.Thick of It, but it's been used. Another phrase we can't use on This

:09:26. > :09:28.Week. It's been used to describe the confluence of events and the

:09:29. > :09:33.interesting question now for the Government is how he respond to it.

:09:33. > :09:38.What analysis do they put on this. Is this because of bad judgment by

:09:38. > :09:42.the Treasury? Is this because of lack of political antena? Is it a

:09:42. > :09:46.function of coalition Government, the fact that the Liberal Democrats

:09:47. > :09:52.were briefing so it all had the bad? How the Government responds to

:09:52. > :09:54.that is fascinating. There was no indication, I would suggest, from

:09:54. > :10:00.the Prime Minister's performance today of how the Government is

:10:00. > :10:04.going to respond? If you talk to some they take the point that you

:10:04. > :10:09.made, these are not marginal issues, but you are talking about hundreds

:10:09. > :10:12.of millions, not billions, or the broader issue of deficit reduction

:10:12. > :10:16.or broader reforms on health and welfare and education and that

:10:17. > :10:19.these things, you have bad weeks. The problem is the narrative is

:10:19. > :10:23.developing here and I think governments find it very, very

:10:23. > :10:27.difficult to get out of those negatives once they start. I think

:10:27. > :10:32.that is the risk for the Government. We have a minister here and can you

:10:32. > :10:37.tie up a few loose ends, because I'm uncertain to what is going to

:10:37. > :10:43.happen. For example, the pasty tax, will that go ahead? Yes. There

:10:43. > :10:48.won't be any kind of U-turn on that. The ideas are that there are odd

:10:48. > :10:54.VAT lines and that creates new issues, but the plan is to go ahead.

:10:54. > :10:58.I'm not too keen to go through the rights and wrongs. All right. The

:10:58. > :11:03.so-called granny tax, the freezing of the allowances, that is going

:11:03. > :11:07.ahead? Pensioners tax allowances going up this April to �10,500. Tax

:11:07. > :11:13.cuts and then staying the same for the following three years. That's a

:11:13. > :11:18.done deal, if I can put it that way. It's part of the maths and reducing

:11:18. > :11:23.personal tax allowance and raising it for people at working age.

:11:23. > :11:27.cap of charitable giving, is that going ahead? The principle was

:11:27. > :11:30.announced for implementation in a year after consultation, so the

:11:30. > :11:34.basic idea of people not using charity funding to pay less tax

:11:34. > :11:37.right at the top, but exactly how it works will be talked about. You

:11:37. > :11:41.said there was no preparation for that. When we do prepare for these

:11:41. > :11:46.things and talk about them you call them a leak and when we don't, you

:11:46. > :11:55.say nobody is prepared, so we can't win either way. It's not up to you

:11:55. > :12:02.do win either way, but up to you to prepare the ground better. But not

:12:02. > :12:09.a leak? The principal that no matter how much money you earn an

:12:09. > :12:16.agreed - no matter how clever your accountants and well paid they are,

:12:16. > :12:20.no matter what perfectly legal tax dodges or avoidances there are,

:12:20. > :12:24.there are a per centages of incomes that should be paid in tax Mr Obama

:12:24. > :12:30.has accepted that in the United States. He can't get it through

:12:30. > :12:34.Congress. That ground was never laid before the Budget. Nick Clegg

:12:34. > :12:38.was talking about it about the tycoon tax idea. Only just before

:12:38. > :12:41.it. Yeah. That's fair. He's floating the idea and it will be

:12:41. > :12:46.consulted on. I think Liberal Democrats were surprised about that.

:12:46. > :12:52.What about the tax on caravans? The static caravan tax, of which in my

:12:52. > :12:56.home we talk of nothing else! What about that? As far as I'm aware,

:12:56. > :12:59.it's going ahead. To remove a different an knollly between

:12:59. > :13:04.different categories, so wherever you draw a VAT line there is a

:13:04. > :13:07.danger so that's why that was introduced. There was quite a lot

:13:07. > :13:12.of Tory backbenchers who are not happy. We heard one there, but we

:13:12. > :13:16.are down to the very fine detail of the Budget and you look to where

:13:16. > :13:19.the money went. Where 3 billion went was to get people out of tax

:13:19. > :13:23.at the bottom and those are the things that will remain.

:13:23. > :13:28.Unemployment has fallen today and they'll last for the long term and

:13:28. > :13:34.all the froth has been forgotten about pasties. Unemployment went

:13:34. > :13:38.down today. Can you remind our audience about inflation? It went

:13:38. > :13:44.up, so what would you rather have this week, 35,000 more people in

:13:44. > :13:47.jobs or 0.1% change? The deputy Governor of the Bank of England

:13:47. > :13:52.assured us many moons ago that inflation on the CPI measure would

:13:52. > :13:58.be below 2.5% by this summer. That's not going to happen. It's

:13:58. > :14:01.heading down. You get the blips, because it's compared with a year

:14:01. > :14:07.ago and last March very dramatic discounting was going on by

:14:07. > :14:11.retailers. You got a mention from the Prime Minister as a result of

:14:11. > :14:18.what you said on The Daily Politics before PMQs. The Prime Minister

:14:18. > :14:23.said, "It's absolutely extraordinary that the Shadow

:14:23. > :14:33.leader of the Commons, that is you, has gone on television calling for

:14:33. > :14:39.higher interest rates. I don't think, pointing at Ed Miliband, he

:14:39. > :14:43.has focused on that. Better go and look at the transcripts." What do

:14:43. > :14:46.you say to that? It's a complete travesty of the discussion you and

:14:46. > :14:49.I were having. If we can't have a discussion about what an economy

:14:49. > :14:54.might look like when it's normalised rather than being in the

:14:54. > :15:00.aftermath of a credit crunch with higher interest rates and lower

:15:00. > :15:03.unemployment and growth, more normal conditions, then it's a joke.

:15:03. > :15:07.Interest rates are at historic low levels, lower than they've ever

:15:07. > :15:11.been as part of the aftermath to the global credit crunch. That is a

:15:11. > :15:15.fact. When things have normalised it's highly unlikely in years to

:15:15. > :15:22.come that interest rates will stay at their very, very low levels.

:15:22. > :15:27.That is just a fact. You seem to imply that if Government had

:15:27. > :15:31.followed a more skpationary fiscal policy, as you have been urging on

:15:31. > :15:38.the Government, that the consequence of that would be higher

:15:38. > :15:42.interest rates sooner rather than later? Well, what I was implying or

:15:42. > :15:45.fiscal policy is a tool that needs to be used in order to achieve a

:15:45. > :15:49.growth strategy and generate jobs, which is the best way of dealing

:15:50. > :15:52.with a deficit. Instead of cutting too far and too fast and hoping

:15:52. > :15:56.that monetary policies, for example, extremely low interest rates will

:15:56. > :16:00.bear the whole cost. If you look at what happened in the Japanese

:16:00. > :16:05.economy, they had the lost decade of bumping along the bottom when

:16:05. > :16:10.monetary policy failed to work, because the economy couldn't be

:16:10. > :16:14.normalised. I was making that point. They were building bridges then.

:16:14. > :16:22.should have higher borrowing and interest rates as a mix? I'm not

:16:22. > :16:25.talking about what we should have. I was talking about an economy that

:16:25. > :16:30.was normalised. We have seen a Government there that hasn't paid

:16:30. > :16:34.attention to the detail of the Budget. George Osborne, who is a

:16:34. > :16:37.part-time Chancellor was so busy swang around America that he didn't

:16:37. > :16:45.check on the pasty tax -- swanning around America that he didn't check

:16:45. > :16:50.on the pasty tax. We are told to take a running July p, because we

:16:50. > :16:53.had our eye on the -- jump, because we had our eye on the detail of

:16:53. > :17:01.that. OK. James, we have had the Budget playing out and there are

:17:01. > :17:04.more votes to come and so on. When does this current period come to an

:17:04. > :17:07.end? We have the Queen's Speech. There is even talk, I've heard,

:17:07. > :17:12.that Parliament may go down even earlier, because it's got nothing

:17:12. > :17:19.to do. Yeah. There is a possibility that Parliament will, to use the

:17:19. > :17:23.phrase, pro rogue, which as aim sure you know, they'll stop and go

:17:23. > :17:27.to the races, before the Queen's Speech, later in May! Certainly, we

:17:27. > :17:30.know the financial bill, for example, that will be carried over,

:17:30. > :17:35.so the Government has given itself leeway for that. At some point

:17:35. > :17:38.politics will reset itself. There will be a new set of agendas. We'll

:17:38. > :17:42.start talking about something different. Something to look

:17:42. > :17:46.forward to. House of Lords reform. The show piece of the speech. Are

:17:46. > :17:50.you trying to destroy our ratings? I'm trying to get you excited.

:17:50. > :17:55.Briefly, because we have to move on, have you heard the talk that the

:17:55. > :17:59.Government, because you are the Shadow leader of the House, that

:17:59. > :18:02.they were going down quite early before the speech, can we go down

:18:02. > :18:06.very early? There are the rumours around and I think it's because

:18:06. > :18:09.they've completely mishandled the programme and taken too years,

:18:09. > :18:12.which is the longest session ever to get not as many bills as they

:18:12. > :18:16.thought they would get. They stuffed too many of them into the

:18:16. > :18:19.Commons to begin with and we had to twiddle our thumbs while they were

:18:19. > :18:23.piled up in the Lords and,000 they've got it wrong again. I think

:18:23. > :18:27.the thing is this, the Government quite likes to run the run the

:18:27. > :18:37.country without Parliament sitting. Like Gordon Brown. It avoids Prime

:18:37. > :18:38.

:18:38. > :18:42.Minister's questions. Thank you The coalition MPs will try to

:18:42. > :18:46.derail the pasty tax when it is debated today. Following the fall-

:18:46. > :18:50.out from the so-called pasty tax, should we be looking at the whole

:18:50. > :19:00.system of how we tax food? We asked one expert who wants the Government

:19:00. > :19:14.

:19:14. > :19:18.We are in the grip of an obesity epidemic. 25% of British adults are

:19:18. > :19:23.overweight or obese and that is costing the NHS over �5 billion a

:19:23. > :19:27.year. Why is this happening? As a nation,

:19:27. > :19:34.we are eating too many calories. Too much cheaper, energy dense food

:19:34. > :19:38.like chocolate bars, soft drinks, sausages and passes.

:19:38. > :19:42.-- pasties. We use taxes to discourage drinking and smoking,

:19:42. > :19:46.which raises money for the Treasury and prevent people from dying too

:19:46. > :19:51.early. There is now what have evidence that manipulating food

:19:51. > :19:56.prices could promote healthy eating. I would like us to start with a new

:19:56. > :20:02.tax on soft sugary drinks. They have introduced one in France and

:20:02. > :20:07.it adds about 2 euros -- two Euro cents to a can of cola. I think we

:20:08. > :20:12.should go for twelves pence on a can of cola. At a rate, there will

:20:12. > :20:17.be 400,000 fewer cases of obesity in this country and we would save

:20:17. > :20:22.2000 lives a year. Last year in Denmark, the introduced a fat tax.

:20:22. > :20:26.Eight tax on foods containing a lot of saturated fat. Those are the fat

:20:26. > :20:31.that raised cholesterol. They had the right idea, but foods in

:20:31. > :20:38.Britain that a low in fat have a lot of salt, so tackling one

:20:38. > :20:43.problem may be creating another. Instead, we need to rethink the way

:20:43. > :20:47.that we apply VAT to food. At the moment, we have a muddled system.

:20:47. > :20:57.We pay tax on some relatively healthy food such as movies, but

:20:57. > :21:01.

:21:01. > :21:04.not on junk food like doughnuts or I don't care whether it is hot or

:21:04. > :21:10.cold or whether we get are from a shop or a takeaway, I want a tax on

:21:10. > :21:20.all unhealthy food from butter to biscuits. That way, we will be

:21:20. > :21:21.

:21:21. > :21:29.tackling a problem that will only go on expanding otherwise.

:21:29. > :21:34.What are the figures that say that that will reduce obesity? There is

:21:34. > :21:37.a lot of different evidence. There is studies with vending machines

:21:37. > :21:40.and in canteens, the restrict economic data looking at how

:21:40. > :21:44.consumption changes when you increase the price of food, and

:21:44. > :21:52.there is modelling studies, predicting what would happen when

:21:52. > :21:57.you change the tax on food in this country. We are shown that if you

:21:57. > :22:02.put a 20% tax on fizzy drinks, you would save around 2000 lives a year.

:22:02. > :22:07.That is quite a big number. Isn't there something that the Government

:22:07. > :22:13.should be looking at? Shouldn't just be done and looked at former a

:22:13. > :22:17.health point of view? -- from a health point of view. I am as weak

:22:17. > :22:22.as anyone when it comes to sugary food, but it should not be about

:22:22. > :22:26.another source of tax. To get the manufacturers to put less of the

:22:26. > :22:30.junk into the foods is also important. If using the tax system

:22:30. > :22:35.could do that, that is an effective strategy. It should certainly be

:22:35. > :22:38.looked at but not as another way to get money. But that is not what

:22:38. > :22:41.you're suggesting, you're suggesting that the money is used

:22:41. > :22:45.to help bring down levels of obesity. And we should look at

:22:45. > :22:50.Denmark and other countries and see the evidence. It is worth looking

:22:50. > :22:54.at. What is the success in those countries? In France, they're

:22:54. > :22:57.putting a tax on soft drinks and they will use that money for health

:22:57. > :23:02.promotion and preventing disease. That is the sort of thing we would

:23:02. > :23:06.like to introduce. Tony Blair dismissed the plans for a fat tax

:23:06. > :23:10.as suggestive of a nanny state. Do you fell -- do you still agree?

:23:10. > :23:15.think you should always bear evidence in mind, think that is

:23:15. > :23:21.important, but how do you define food that is bad for you? How do

:23:21. > :23:25.you work that through into a vat system? I would rather see us deal

:23:25. > :23:29.with the food production industries to make sure we label things

:23:29. > :23:33.properly and educate people more, so that we have an entire approach

:23:33. > :23:37.into how we make eating healthier and help people to make the right

:23:37. > :23:40.choices. When you're in the middle of that process, tax may have a

:23:40. > :23:48.role to play, but they do not think you can just rely on it. So you're

:23:48. > :23:54.not in favour? It is easier... accusation is that of -- that it

:23:54. > :23:58.affects a people. One of the things that has emerged is that there is

:23:58. > :24:03.now a positive correlation between been poor and being obese. -- poor

:24:03. > :24:07.people. I fancy economies have to think about how they deal with that.

:24:07. > :24:13.-- advanced economies. The 80 or tax may have a role to play but

:24:13. > :24:18.education, assistants, regulation of salt content is equally

:24:18. > :24:21.important. Do you agree with that, nudging towards it rather than

:24:21. > :24:28.going for a restructure? I would like to see it as a notch. Nobody

:24:28. > :24:32.is saying this will solve the whole programme. It is part of the next.

:24:32. > :24:36.-- part of that mix. Prices an important factor in determining

:24:36. > :24:40.what we eat. The Government should be looking at what we can do it but

:24:40. > :24:44.the prices of unhealthy food. Saying that, there is lots of

:24:44. > :24:48.science around how you define healthy and unhealthy food. It is

:24:48. > :24:51.called a nutrient profiling and I am working with the World Health

:24:51. > :24:55.Organisation on devising schemes to define healthy and unhealthy food.

:24:55. > :25:01.We could have a definition which is incorporated into the roles.

:25:01. > :25:05.the chances of a fat tax coming in, not likely? Not immediately. But I

:25:05. > :25:08.think it is worth looking at what else you can do, things like

:25:08. > :25:14.hydrogenated fats, many of them have been taken out. There is a

:25:14. > :25:21.range of strategy. I can see a lot more stories about

:25:21. > :25:26.the pasty tax and VAT. It will keep us in a job. Some people might not

:25:26. > :25:32.give a fig for fat taxes but many MPs to about their trees, fig trees,

:25:32. > :25:38.to be precise. John Bercow, remember his outrage in February

:25:38. > :25:41.about the fig trees in the atrium of Portcullis House, about the

:25:41. > :25:45.authorities' policing the trees at a cost of over �30,000 a year. It

:25:45. > :25:53.now looks like MPs will probably keep the trees because they reduce

:25:53. > :25:57.noise, improve their quality and provide shade for MPs. In the

:25:57. > :26:02.piercings summer months when they are actually not there. Angela

:26:02. > :26:05.Eagle's is on the committee that will make the decision and we are

:26:05. > :26:12.joined by Kenneth Freeman, the chairman of the European Commission

:26:12. > :26:17.for interior landscaping grips. -- interior landscaping groups. Can

:26:17. > :26:23.you justify to us why our viewers should be paying �30,000 a year for

:26:23. > :26:28.the upkeep of 12 trees? I think the question ought to be why people put

:26:28. > :26:31.plants into buildings and the first place. The rural sorts of good

:26:31. > :26:38.reasons why plants can be installed into buildings. They improve well-

:26:38. > :26:42.being, air quality, and the climate. Whether the trees in portcullis

:26:42. > :26:46.House are particularly good value for money, I really can't comment,

:26:46. > :26:51.but in general, trees in plants -- trees and plants in buildings offer

:26:51. > :26:59.benefits. Is it normal to lease them so that you are paying �30,000

:26:59. > :27:02.a year for them? I would not like to comment on the particular set-up.

:27:02. > :27:09.But it is not unusual to rent plants. More typically, they would

:27:09. > :27:15.be smaller trees than that. The overall cost would include not just

:27:15. > :27:18.the value of the trees but how they are maintained and looked after.

:27:18. > :27:23.bet you a lot of people who are watching this programme could look

:27:23. > :27:28.after these trees for less than �30,000 a year. Do you think so?

:27:28. > :27:36.would like to see them try. Interior plants are not necessarily

:27:36. > :27:41.the same as gardens. The costs involved will be something you

:27:41. > :27:45.would not normally expect to find in a typical garden. I have some

:27:45. > :27:52.trees in my garden and I'm not paying �30,000 a year for them.

:27:52. > :27:58.What will you do about this? We are doing something about it. The House

:27:58. > :28:01.authorities on a pulsating with the people who own this contract. --

:28:01. > :28:05.are negotiating. When the trees were put in, nobody knew whether

:28:05. > :28:11.they would survive in the hemisphere. They are thriving now.

:28:11. > :28:16.I'm told... For �30,000 a year, I'm sure they would. We have run out of

:28:16. > :28:20.time. There is a real negotiation going on. It is good news for the

:28:20. > :28:26.trees and particularly for the taxpayer. Mr Freeman, thank you for

:28:27. > :28:31.joining us. For the moment, it is time to find out who has won our

:28:31. > :28:37.Guess The Year competition. It is a doubly exciting day because we have

:28:37. > :28:43.actually moved into the 21st century. We now have ace Ang Lee

:28:43. > :28:49.new electronic system for picking the winner. -- a spangly. The

:28:49. > :28:54.answer was 2010. Andrew, D will be the first to press the button and

:28:54. > :29:03.reveal the winner. -- Ancelotti. If is a great honour. I was feel

:29:03. > :29:08.worried about pressing red buttons. -- I always feel worried. And the

:29:08. > :29:14.winner is Linn Hoyle in West Yorkshire.

:29:14. > :29:18.It worked. It's quite amazing. That's it for today. Our thanks to

:29:18. > :29:22.Angela Eagle's, Steve Webb and all of our other guests. The One