:00:42. > :00:46.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:46. > :00:49.It's bad news for the Prime Minister, but even worse for Nick
:00:49. > :00:53.Clegg! Tory backbenchers are warning David Cameron that there
:00:53. > :00:56.will be a rebellion "off the scale", if he presses ahead with the Deputy
:00:56. > :01:01.Prime Minister's pet project, House of Lords reform. Could this be the
:01:01. > :01:04.row that breaks the coalition? Troublesome Lib Dem peer Matthew
:01:04. > :01:07.Oakeshott joins us. And, as Theresa May endures that
:01:07. > :01:11.ritual of British politics, the Home Secretary getting a thoroughly
:01:11. > :01:18.good kicking, we ask where the Abu Qatada debacle leaves the Home
:01:18. > :01:21.Secretary? And, it was billed as a decisive
:01:21. > :01:26.moment in the UK's efforts to reform the European Court of Human
:01:26. > :01:30.Rights. But, has the Brighton Declaration lived up to the hype?
:01:30. > :01:33.Ken Clarke thinks so. The President of the Court, who's also British,
:01:33. > :01:36.not so much. We'll ask Tory MEP Martin Callanan,
:01:36. > :01:40.and former Lord Chancellor, Charlie Falconer.
:01:40. > :01:44.And, it's an election frenzy on the Daily Politics today. We'll hear
:01:44. > :01:47.what's happening in Wales. Meet the Uruguayan immigrant
:01:47. > :01:50.standing as the BNP's candidate for London Mayor.
:01:50. > :02:00.And, talk to a French socialist hoping to be elected as the member
:02:00. > :02:02.
:02:02. > :02:10.All that in the next cosmopolitan, sophisticated and truly
:02:10. > :02:13.international hour of public service broadcasting.
:02:13. > :02:18.And, alongside me throughout, Agnes Poirier, UK editor of French news
:02:18. > :02:24.magazine, Marianne. And, rather less exotically, it has
:02:24. > :02:28.to be said, Matt Chorley from the Independent on Sunday.
:02:28. > :02:31.Welcome. So, it's not a great morning for
:02:31. > :02:34.anyone with Prime Minister in their title. For David Cameron, the
:02:34. > :02:38.headlines about Theresa May and her troubled relationship with the
:02:38. > :02:44.calendar are bad. The poll that puts Labour a whopping 13% ahead,
:02:44. > :02:47.even worse. And that's before we get to his restive backbenchers,
:02:47. > :02:53.who warned last night that they would not support plans for House
:02:53. > :02:57.of Lords reform. That's where Nick Clegg's headaches begin. With his
:02:57. > :02:59.party desperate for a victory on constitutional reform, to make them
:02:59. > :03:02.feel better about this whole coalition business.
:03:02. > :03:09.So, what's been going on in Westminster overnight? Our
:03:09. > :03:12.political correspondent Carole Walker joins us.
:03:12. > :03:16.4th 4th of the Prime Minister was not at this meeting of Tory
:03:16. > :03:21.backbenchers. From all of the reports, they were in rebellious
:03:21. > :03:27.mood? I think the word will certainly get back to David Cameron.
:03:27. > :03:33.Tory MPs have had a testing time with rows over the pastry tax,
:03:33. > :03:38.granny tax, the possible fuel strike. It seems like they seized
:03:38. > :03:44.on this issue of House of Lords reform to say pretty strongly that
:03:44. > :03:47.they will not put up with it. They feel this is a pet project of the
:03:47. > :03:52.Liberal Democrat Deputy Prime Minister. They are concerned at the
:03:52. > :03:57.idea of a largely elected House of Lords would lead to difficulties
:03:57. > :04:02.and conflict between the two Houses of Parliament. They think any plan
:04:02. > :04:07.to radically reduce the House of Lords will clog up the Houses of
:04:07. > :04:10.Parliament for quite some time and dominate the headlines. Their
:04:10. > :04:15.constituents will be wondering why they are preoccupied with the inner
:04:15. > :04:23.workings of Parliament when they are more concerned about jobs and
:04:23. > :04:27.the economy. So, it is pretty clear there is a huge amount of hostility.
:04:27. > :04:31.There was some surprising guidance from Downing Street, saying those
:04:31. > :04:37.who spoke out against reform were not representative of Tory
:04:38. > :04:41.backbenchers. But there were over 40 who took this line. If they are
:04:41. > :04:48.representative, what does Mr Cameron do? He is in a very
:04:48. > :04:53.difficult position. Because, this issue of House of Lords reform,
:04:53. > :04:57.part of the constitutional reform agenda was part of the price of the
:04:57. > :05:03.Coalition for Nick Clegg. There is no doubt the Prime Minister will
:05:03. > :05:07.have a huge problem in terms of his own party. I have spoken to MPs
:05:07. > :05:12.from a number of different wings of the party and all of them are angry
:05:12. > :05:16.about this on a number of different levels. The key one is this simply
:05:16. > :05:21.do not feel this is the issue that the government should be focusing
:05:21. > :05:27.on and driving through, with all of the battles that will involve, at
:05:27. > :05:32.this current time. So he will have a difficult ride. Quite a few MPs
:05:32. > :05:36.now say that, if it is going to go ahead and there will be reform of
:05:36. > :05:40.the Lords, they should be a referendum. That is something on
:05:40. > :05:44.which you could see rebellious Tory MPs finding common cause with
:05:44. > :05:50.Labour of which could make it even more difficult to get any proposals
:05:50. > :05:52.through. So, there could be trouble ahead. And, who better to ask about
:05:52. > :06:02.it than troublesome Lib Dem peer Matthew Oakeshott. Alongside former
:06:02. > :06:10.Labour Lord Chancellor, Charles Falconer.
:06:10. > :06:16.The Conservative MPs are not up for this? Troublesome. Totally on
:06:17. > :06:22.message. The coalition and Liberal Democrat message. About 40 of them
:06:22. > :06:27.spoke against it. I can tell you plenty of gazetted MPs are in
:06:27. > :06:33.favour. There have been some very good ones on the Joint Commission
:06:33. > :06:38.reported on Monday. You think that this committee meeting of the 1922
:06:38. > :06:45.Committee last night, which every MP who spoke, except one, was
:06:45. > :06:52.against proceeding with reform, as Nick Clegg once. But it doesn't
:06:52. > :06:57.matter? I didn't say that. The important thing is Liberal Democrat
:06:57. > :07:03.MPs are totally united in favour, it is coalition policy. Electing
:07:03. > :07:10.the house of Lords was in all three major parties's manifestos,
:07:10. > :07:16.including yours, Charlie. You made it quite clear you, of the party
:07:16. > :07:21.was in favour of an elected House of Lords and getting rid of the
:07:21. > :07:28.hereditary principle. Those policies were put to the country.
:07:28. > :07:32.The Conservative manifesto, you keep saying this was in the
:07:32. > :07:39.Conservative manifesto and coalition agreement. It isn't. The
:07:39. > :07:48.Tory manifesto says we will work to build a consensus. To replace the
:07:48. > :07:57.current House of Lords. It doesn't say we will reform, but we will
:07:58. > :08:03.work to build a consensus. Clearly, there is no consensus. You have
:08:03. > :08:07.consistently said the coalition agreement... The coalition
:08:07. > :08:15.agreement simply says, we will establish a committee to bring
:08:15. > :08:22.forward proposals. For a wholly or mainly elected upper chamber.
:08:22. > :08:27.Bringing forward proposals. That commits nobody to anything. It does.
:08:27. > :08:32.It is a clear understanding between the two parties that is what we
:08:32. > :08:38.would propose. That is the deal. Your party could save the day, no
:08:38. > :08:42.matter how disillusioned the Tories are, by voting with the Liberal
:08:42. > :08:45.Democrats for a second elected chamber? We could and we would if
:08:45. > :08:49.they were worthwhile proposals. But they're saying everything is
:08:49. > :08:55.wonderful in the current arrangement, except the Lords are
:08:55. > :09:00.not elected. So let us change, but keep anything else, including the
:09:00. > :09:05.primacy of the Commons. A nonsensical idea. Once we are
:09:05. > :09:09.elected, we will assert ourselves against the Commons and there will
:09:09. > :09:16.be gridlock. You can't have an inferior second chamber which is
:09:16. > :09:24.also elected. Get back to the drawing board. A back to the
:09:24. > :09:29.drawing-board. An excuse for never doing anything. Let me say, 800 of
:09:29. > :09:36.us, very complacent dinosaurs, what will you do about the hereditary
:09:36. > :09:43.principle? I don't believe and I see no reason why an elected House
:09:43. > :09:48.of Lords as all three parties are in favour of, should mean there
:09:48. > :09:55.should be a change in the power balance. At the moment, the Commons
:09:55. > :10:00.actually is now had more power by using this financial privilege.
:10:00. > :10:06.We're having some movement away. I think we should stick to the
:10:06. > :10:13.balance there has been. You reject the unanimous conclusion that had
:10:13. > :10:17.Lords Bill, Commons, Tories, Liberal Democrats, off the existing
:10:17. > :10:22.conventions go up the window. Excuse me, I was on that committee,
:10:22. > :10:28.it did not say that. It did not accept, and those of us in favour
:10:28. > :10:32.of reform, supported that on the basis that was a separate issue. We
:10:32. > :10:39.did not say on that committee you had to change the powers before
:10:39. > :10:48.changing the composition. I was there. I was actually there, I was
:10:48. > :10:53.on that committee. You were not. You obviously never read the report.
:10:53. > :10:57.Can I remind you again of the words of the Conservative manifesto. We
:10:57. > :11:01.will work to build a consensus. It doesn't sound like you have done it.
:11:01. > :11:07.He don't have to have unanimity in the Conservative Party to have a
:11:07. > :11:12.decision. You are relying on the manifesto which has been shot to
:11:12. > :11:20.pieces. Also, you are very unrepresentative of most of the
:11:20. > :11:24.Labour Party, the Labour leadership in the Commons, you are a dinosaur.
:11:24. > :11:30.I think you are getting a phone call from your leader! I think what
:11:30. > :11:35.my party once, is a sensible Bill. And yours is total rubbish. What he
:11:35. > :11:40.wants I am sure is a form and a democratic House of Lords as well
:11:40. > :11:50.as Commons. We won't get it while dinosaurs are blocking the way.
:11:50. > :11:50.
:11:50. > :11:54.hit is an issue which nobody cares about, according to the polls.
:11:54. > :12:01.you ask people what are the most important issues facing Britain,
:12:01. > :12:07.the reform of the Lords gets 0%. How all this play about? If the
:12:07. > :12:14.entire summer is dominated by this, it will play out very badly. It's
:12:14. > :12:19.the opponents who say this is mad to make this a number one priority.
:12:19. > :12:25.Nick Clegg wants it. His party wants it more than he does. For he
:12:25. > :12:35.wants it. After losing the alternative vote referendum. Number
:12:35. > :12:35.
:12:35. > :12:41.10 is still saying the promised it is still committed. -- the Prime
:12:41. > :12:48.Minister. How do you let the second chamber in France? It is elected to
:12:48. > :12:55.start with. They got rid of Lords during the Revolution! Which is an
:12:55. > :13:01.easy way to go about it. There is an intellectual case for it. I am
:13:01. > :13:05.amazed you say 0% of people are concerned. It is very important.
:13:05. > :13:11.you ask every opinion poll, it says most people are in favour of
:13:11. > :13:14.collecting it. It is not top of their list. The only reason it will
:13:14. > :13:24.clog up Holland visit the people who are against it spend time time-
:13:24. > :13:26.
:13:26. > :13:34.wasting. People want current paces macro to have a long period before
:13:35. > :13:39.change. If there is a referendum, it looks a good idea... Let me be
:13:39. > :13:42.clear. You are speaking for the party that now wants to give us a
:13:42. > :13:49.referendum on an issue no one cares about. But the party which wouldn't
:13:50. > :13:54.give us a referendum... In relation to the Lords, we always said there
:13:54. > :14:02.would be a referendum. In relation to Lisbon, and cut remember the
:14:02. > :14:10.precise timing, it went away for some reason -- I can't remember.
:14:11. > :14:16.You support an elected, your party supports an elected chamber. Stop
:14:16. > :14:25.the politics and support him. upping macro, it is a very bad
:14:25. > :14:30.proposal which would be bad for the country -- no. I'll be asking the
:14:30. > :14:38.Deputy Prime Minister about this issue, when he joins me on the
:14:38. > :14:41.Sunday Politics. On BBC One, this Now, the papers this morning don't
:14:41. > :14:45.make great reading for the Government. Do we detect a theme
:14:45. > :14:48.here? Many are splashing on the news that the radical cleric Abu
:14:48. > :14:52.Qatada could be released on bail within weeks because of the
:14:52. > :14:55.confusion surrounding his deportation. It's a further blow to
:14:55. > :15:02.the Home Secretary Theresa May, and her department. Mrs May insists
:15:02. > :15:03.that Abu Qatada's lawyers have his deportation. But a spokesman
:15:03. > :15:13.for the European Court says the appeal, lodged on Tuesday evening,
:15:13. > :15:16.
:15:16. > :15:19.was "just in time". The judge here who approved Abu Qatada's arrest at
:15:19. > :15:22.the start of the week, Mr Justice Mitting, says that "if it is
:15:22. > :15:28.obvious after two or three weeks that deportation is not imminent"
:15:28. > :15:30.then he would reconsider bail for Abu Qatada.
:15:30. > :15:40.Meanwhile the Justice Secretary Ken Clarke hailed a new declaration,
:15:40. > :15:43.agreed in Brighton, to reform the European Court. Mr Clarke says
:15:43. > :15:49.there will be more "subsidiarity" and a "margin of appreciation" -
:15:50. > :15:52.that means more decisions made by national courts. However, the
:15:52. > :15:55.President of the European Court, a Brit called Nicholas Bratza, said
:15:55. > :15:59.he was "uncomfortable with the idea that governments can in some way
:15:59. > :16:09.dictate to the court how its case law should evolve or how it should
:16:09. > :16:14.
:16:14. > :16:19.carry out the judicial functions Not a lot of enthusiasm there from
:16:19. > :16:22.the President. Charles Falconer is still with us and we're joined from
:16:22. > :16:24.the home of the European Court, Strasbourg, by Martin Callanan the
:16:24. > :16:34.Tory MEP who heads the right of centre European Parliament grouping
:16:34. > :16:38.of which the Conservative Party are members. Welcome to both of you.
:16:38. > :16:43.Charlie Falconer, let me come to you first. You are a lawyer as well
:16:43. > :16:47.as a former politician and former Lord Chancellor. Did Theresa may
:16:47. > :16:54.get the old days right or not? think she might have got it wrong.
:16:54. > :16:57.-- did she get the date right? The convention says you have to make
:16:57. > :17:02.the appeal within three months and the guidance documents say it
:17:02. > :17:05.includes the day of the judgment but other cases say it does not
:17:05. > :17:09.include the day of the judgment. It is very confusing, but if you are
:17:09. > :17:13.confused by that, the right thing is to wait until the last possible
:17:13. > :17:19.date and then it said you were going to deport. Instead she took a
:17:19. > :17:24.risk. I don't know what advice she had got. I read in the newspapers
:17:24. > :17:28.she was evasive about saying what advice she got. I do not know who
:17:28. > :17:32.took the risk. The right thing to do if your stated stance was to say
:17:32. > :17:38.you would only move to deport him once the time for appeal had gone,
:17:38. > :17:41.then you should wait for that time for appeal unequivocally. And get
:17:41. > :17:44.clarity from Strasbourg as to what they considered was the right thing.
:17:45. > :17:49.She should have waited until the end of the next day and there would
:17:49. > :17:56.have been no argument one way or another. The problem she has ended
:17:56. > :17:58.up in is that somebody, whether it was hurt or a lawyer, took a risk
:17:59. > :18:02.that the view it ended on the Monday was right, and it has now
:18:02. > :18:08.turned out to be wrong. The court has now said it was within time.
:18:08. > :18:14.is a technical issue, but there are bigger symbolic issues. Let me go
:18:14. > :18:21.to Martin. If Abu Qatada gets released on bail, is that curtains
:18:21. > :18:24.for the Home Secretary? No, I don't think so. I think Theresa May is on
:18:24. > :18:29.the side of the angels and is doing an excellent job. It is just the
:18:30. > :18:32.angels are not sure what day it is. This argument about dates is
:18:32. > :18:36.interpreted and reinterpreted by the court, and this is the problem
:18:36. > :18:41.with it, it makes the law as they go along about what people ought to
:18:41. > :18:45.save rather than what it does say. But going back to the principles,
:18:46. > :18:49.this guy has been illegally in the country for 20 years and successive
:18:49. > :18:53.Home Secretaries have considered him a threat to national security
:18:53. > :18:58.and he was labelled a terrorist sympathiser by a judge and he
:18:58. > :19:05.detests what we stand for in the UK. Everybody wants rid of him. We know
:19:05. > :19:07.that, but none of you can find a way of doing it. The problem is
:19:07. > :19:12.that the European Court of Human Rights substituted judgment on
:19:12. > :19:19.elected politicians in the UK and even in the UK courts and the UK
:19:19. > :19:23.taxpayer is funding both sides of the case. We know that, and we have
:19:23. > :19:28.heard it endlessly, politicians come on to this programme wringing
:19:28. > :19:33.their hands about this all the time. Should the Home Secretary do what
:19:33. > :19:38.the French and the Italians do and just put him on a plane to Jordan?
:19:38. > :19:43.No, she can't. That would be contrary to the law and we abide by
:19:43. > :19:45.the law in the UK and a thing that is correct. What we should do is
:19:45. > :19:49.change the law and abnegate the European Convention of Human Rights,
:19:49. > :19:53.withdraw from it and then it will be perfectly legal for Abu Qatada
:19:53. > :19:57.to be deported. Kenneth Clarke says the Brighton agreement, which has
:19:57. > :20:02.been unveiled this morning on the European Court, will make a big
:20:02. > :20:08.difference to the way it works. The President of the court says it will
:20:08. > :20:13.not change the way it -- we do our jobs. Who is right? Eyes suspect
:20:13. > :20:17.the President of the court is right, because the job of interpreting it
:20:17. > :20:21.lies with him and his fellow judges, most of whom are not even legally
:20:21. > :20:24.qualified. Most of them are political appointees and they will
:20:24. > :20:28.interpret the law as they see fit. That is what they have done all
:20:28. > :20:33.along. It sounds like you do not trust your justice secretary on
:20:33. > :20:38.this. I am suspicious of his motives, I have to say. I prefer
:20:38. > :20:41.the interpretation of Tereza May. The point is, Charlie Falconer, can
:20:41. > :20:46.you point to any of the clauses in the Brighton declaration that would
:20:46. > :20:51.have made a difference to the Abu Qatada case? They are saying they
:20:51. > :20:56.will streamline the process is. The subsidiarity staff won't add any
:20:56. > :20:59.difference to the result -- the subsidiarity stuff. But they are
:20:59. > :21:03.saying their procedural changes that will make it quicker and there
:21:03. > :21:09.are complaints about what happened with Abu Qatada because some people
:21:09. > :21:14.say he's ability to appeal means the process takes so long. It has
:21:14. > :21:18.taken 10 years and everyone is exasperated about that. I am more
:21:18. > :21:22.hopeful than your other guest that it will make a difference. I have
:21:22. > :21:26.no idea what difference it will make. We have a situation in the UK
:21:26. > :21:30.way you have a final court of appeal that will hear around 60
:21:30. > :21:35.cases per year. What you need the the European Court of Human Rights
:21:35. > :21:40.is a coarse -- a court that he is a small matter cases, sets out the
:21:40. > :21:43.principles, and decides things in a reasonable time. People are fed up
:21:43. > :21:47.with any party's ability to sort this out. This man was allowed in
:21:47. > :21:51.illegally under a Tory government, then in 2001 under the Labour
:21:51. > :21:56.government for nine years, you fail to get progress in getting him out,
:21:56. > :21:59.and now we have a Tory government back in and we are not quite sure
:21:59. > :22:05.what day of the week it is. question about the timing is one
:22:05. > :22:09.that could have risen in an English case. The problem is that the time
:22:09. > :22:13.these things take. It is right to have a court out of the country
:22:13. > :22:17.that is saying, regionally, for Europe, what is the standard of
:22:17. > :22:22.human rights. That is a good thing and insures people are protected.
:22:22. > :22:26.What is a bad thing is... Why can't they be protected by the British
:22:26. > :22:29.Supreme Court which is nine of the best qualified judges in the world?
:22:29. > :22:33.The Kozuka always have a government saying you can disagree -- because
:22:33. > :22:39.you can always have a government that disagrees and says the courts
:22:39. > :22:42.in Britain were wrong. You have to have something outside the UK.
:22:42. > :22:47.United States doesn't. But they have judges who can strike down
:22:47. > :22:53.legislation. So you have an independent protective in the US of
:22:53. > :22:59.people's human rights. Why is this not an issue in France? I do not
:22:59. > :23:03.know why in Britain we always blame Europe. Because we stick to the
:23:03. > :23:10.rules and in France you just put them on a plane. Mr Sarkozy has
:23:10. > :23:13.just done it. But we did not involve the European Court of Human
:23:13. > :23:18.Rights on this. It might be down to the more authoritarian nature of
:23:18. > :23:21.the French state, perhaps. And it is very difficult to get to the
:23:21. > :23:27.European Court of Human Rights in France. The funding is more
:23:27. > :23:31.difficult. We are a nation where we make access to the courts,
:23:31. > :23:35.including the European Court, very easy would you are rich or poor. I
:23:35. > :23:41.am not sure if it is like that in France. Frankly, the political
:23:41. > :23:43.establishment do not know what to do. The reforms, most people think
:23:43. > :23:49.they won't make much difference, and he says we should just leave.
:23:49. > :23:53.David Cameron is not going to just leave and couldn't give a coalition
:23:53. > :23:56.with the Liberal Democrats. It is a stalemate for the future. It is,
:23:56. > :24:00.and a lot of legal process is complicated and people cannot
:24:00. > :24:04.Follett. When you get down to a Monday or Tuesday, people can
:24:04. > :24:08.follow that. People think if you have waited 10 years and you cannot
:24:08. > :24:14.wait another day... Everyone agrees that we should get rid of him, so
:24:14. > :24:19.why, do that? You want Britain to pull out of the European Court of
:24:19. > :24:23.Human Rights altogether. Do you want us to have our own British
:24:23. > :24:29.Bill of Rights? I think that is a matter Parliament can determine.
:24:29. > :24:32.was asking you. What benefit accrues to the UK from our
:24:32. > :24:36.membership of this court? I don't feel my human rights are under
:24:36. > :24:41.threat. We are the country that had the Magna Carter, the British Bill
:24:41. > :24:46.of Rights and by human rights are well protected. The idea not one to
:24:46. > :24:50.be protected by judges from Belarus and the Ukraine. -- I do not want
:24:50. > :24:54.to be protected. There are only two courses in the Magna Carter that
:24:54. > :24:57.are still part of British law and a British Bill of Rights was at the
:24:57. > :25:01.end of the 17th century. If you are so convinced this is the right way
:25:01. > :25:05.to go, how come you have not convinced your prime minister?
:25:05. > :25:09.think David Cameron probably does support that view. He doesn't
:25:09. > :25:13.support the idea of full withdrawal from the European Court. Let's see
:25:14. > :25:17.what is in the next Conservative manifesto. The problem is we are in
:25:17. > :25:23.coalition with the Liberal Democrats to believe it is fine for
:25:23. > :25:26.us to be dictated to by these various tribunals and courts.
:25:26. > :25:30.doubt Abu Qatada will be here to read the next Conservative
:25:30. > :25:34.manifesto. Probably! Thank you for joining us. We had trouble getting
:25:35. > :25:37.you earlier, but it's good to see. Now, we're going election crazy on
:25:38. > :25:40.the Daily Politics today. First up, France. It's the last day of
:25:41. > :25:48.campaigning before voters go to the polls on Sunday in the French
:25:48. > :25:58.presidential elections. Nicolas Sarkozy is in Nice and Francoise
:25:58. > :25:58.
:25:58. > :26:02.Hollande in Bordeaux making their final pleas for votes today. The
:26:02. > :26:05.campaigning starts tonight, Saturday is quiet, and then they go
:26:05. > :26:13.to the polls. Opinion polls show the two men are neck-and-neck, but
:26:13. > :26:18.Socialist candidate Mr Hollande is favourite to win a run-off vote.
:26:18. > :26:21.Probably by quite a big majority if the opinion polls are right. Here's
:26:21. > :26:24.Susana Mendonsa with all you'll need to know your onions on the
:26:24. > :26:32.French election. I should warn you that her report contains some flash
:26:32. > :26:42.The French Presidential Election is upon us and there's everything to
:26:42. > :26:43.
:26:43. > :26:46.play for for the incumbent Nicolas Sarkozy. He'll need the help
:26:46. > :26:49.because this is a very tight race, and if the voters decide that it's
:26:49. > :26:57."au revoir", he'd become the first French president not to be re-
:26:57. > :27:01.elected for a second term in more The French elect their president in
:27:01. > :27:04.a two stage process, starting with stage one this weekend. To be
:27:04. > :27:08.elected on the first round alone, one of the ten candidates would
:27:08. > :27:11.have to win an absolute majority at the polls on Sunday. If none of
:27:11. > :27:20.them achieve that, then the the top two candidates will face each other
:27:20. > :27:27.The front runners are Conservative Sarkozy, and Socialist Francoise
:27:27. > :27:32.Hollande who's promising change. Polls this week put him at 29%,
:27:32. > :27:36.edging every so slightly ahead of Sarkozy who's on 28%. The rest of
:27:36. > :27:39.the candidates veer from the far left to the far right and will most
:27:39. > :27:45.likely be eliminated this weekend, but where their supporters go could
:27:45. > :27:48.be the tipping point, with Hollande favourite to win the second round.
:27:48. > :27:58.And this is the man whose votes he'll hope to pick up, the Left
:27:58. > :27:59.
:27:59. > :28:02.Front's Jean-Luc Melenchon. While Sarkozy will hope that far right's
:28:02. > :28:08.National Front leader Le Pen's supporters will vote for him. But
:28:08. > :28:10.that's forced both men to appeal to the extremes. One of Melenchon's
:28:10. > :28:17.more controversial ideas is to confiscate all income over 360,000
:28:18. > :28:20.euros a year. Holland followed that up with a pledge to tax income
:28:21. > :28:23.above one million euros at 75%. Sarkozy has sought to claw back
:28:23. > :28:26.right wing voters with policies like pulling out of Europe's
:28:26. > :28:29.borderless zone unless there's a crackdown on illegal immigration.
:28:29. > :28:39.And after the shootings in Toulouse by the son of Algerian immigrants,
:28:39. > :28:40.
:28:40. > :28:44.he's proposed tougher laws against But it's on the economy that who
:28:44. > :28:46.wins in France affects us here in Britain. Sarkozy's support for a
:28:46. > :28:49.financial transaction tax on the banks is looked upon with suspicion.
:28:49. > :28:59.And Hollande's tax and spending approach might force Germany to
:28:59. > :29:00.
:29:00. > :29:06.look towards Britain. I am glad I gave a warning about the flash
:29:06. > :29:08.photography. And I'm delighted to say we are joined by the Socialist
:29:08. > :29:15.candidate for Nord Europe - the constituency for ex-pat French
:29:15. > :29:19.nationals which includes those living in the UK, Axelle Lemaire.
:29:19. > :29:24.The vast majority of French people living in the UK are in the London
:29:24. > :29:28.area. A lot of them work in the city. As a Socialist candidate, is
:29:28. > :29:34.it quite hard to campaign for these people's boats as so many of them
:29:34. > :29:38.have come to London to escape people like Francoise Hollande.
:29:38. > :29:44.I've don't think they'd come to escape him. I think they came to
:29:44. > :29:49.London and were attracted by offers in the job market. I think people
:29:49. > :29:54.working in the city, what they want, they want a strong economy for
:29:54. > :29:56.France and long-term policies and a stable economy likely to attract
:29:57. > :30:06.foreign investments. This is something Nicolas Sarkozy has not
:30:07. > :30:07.
:30:07. > :30:12.The French people I know who live in London escaped France because he
:30:12. > :30:20.believed there were not the kind of jobs they could get in London, and
:30:20. > :30:25.because taxes were too high. Well, Nicolas Sarkozy has actually
:30:25. > :30:32.created 45 new taxes in five years. The public debt has doubled in 10
:30:32. > :30:38.years. You are not going to cut these taxes. That depends for whom.
:30:38. > :30:41.Mr Hollande wants to introduce progressive taxation. So there
:30:41. > :30:46.would probably be more French people paying taxes, but the edit
:30:46. > :30:52.is to make it progressive. That means the wealthiest have to pay.
:30:52. > :30:58.It is already quite progressive. Mr Hollande is suggesting if you earn
:30:58. > :31:04.over one million euros, your marginal rate will become 75%. How
:31:04. > :31:09.much money would that raised? think he is doing that for the
:31:09. > :31:17.symbolic aspect of it. And because this would concern 3,000
:31:17. > :31:24.individuals. The important tax rate to look at is the 45%, which would
:31:24. > :31:28.concern earnings between 150,000.1000000 Euros euros. Why is
:31:28. > :31:36.it symbolically important? Because taxation is very unfair in France
:31:36. > :31:43.and people are fed up with the richest paying less taxes, than
:31:43. > :31:48.bloke and middle-class citizens. Mr Hollande were to implement the
:31:48. > :31:54.centre by % tax, you would need to book far ahead on the Eurostar
:31:54. > :32:00.because it will be packed with millionaires. I am not sure. The
:32:00. > :32:09.reason I came to Britain in 1975 was because of the new President
:32:09. > :32:18.then. I love Britain too much now to go back. Don't be so sure about
:32:19. > :32:23.the reason why. In a country surrounded by other countries,
:32:23. > :32:32.France has borders with anyone and a tunnel would Britain, why won't
:32:32. > :32:37.they leave? They will be taxed anyway. Nicolas Sarkozy proposed it
:32:37. > :32:44.because he proposes everything that Mr Hollande is proposing as a
:32:44. > :32:48.desperate measure. He says they will be taxed anywhere. If Mr
:32:48. > :32:55.Hollande wins, will Jean Luc Melenchon who wants to confiscate
:32:55. > :33:04.all money above 350,000 euros, a real socialist policy, where he get
:33:04. > :33:08.a job in the government? I can't say, I don't know how Mr Hollande
:33:08. > :33:15.will form his government. Jean Luc Melenchon has already announced he
:33:15. > :33:19.does not want to be in government. That being said, it doesn't mean Mr
:33:19. > :33:23.Hollande should not take into account the messages sent by the
:33:23. > :33:29.people who would vote for Jean Luc Melenchon, as he would do for any
:33:29. > :33:33.other candidate. If he is elected, he will be elected by the French
:33:33. > :33:40.people and he will have to rule in the national interest. What lessons
:33:40. > :33:48.are there for British politicians? An interesting campaign.
:33:48. > :33:54.Interesting issues. In addition to the two main candidates, the others
:33:54. > :34:02.have been interesting as well. obvious parallel is the Labour and
:34:02. > :34:12.Tories worried about losing votes to the UKIP party. And the respect
:34:12. > :34:17.
:34:17. > :34:23.party. We know David Cameron would want Nicolas Sarkozy to win but he
:34:23. > :34:29.does a -- not know if it will happen. There is a love-hate
:34:29. > :34:35.relationship. Of the two, he would prefer to have Nicolas Sarkozy.
:34:35. > :34:39.is not so clear that it is in the interest of Ed Miliband for Mr
:34:39. > :34:44.Hollande to win. In a sense it would be a victory for the left but
:34:44. > :34:54.if it quickly unravels, as it did with Francois Mitterrand's early on,
:34:54. > :34:55.
:34:55. > :35:01.that is not good news. If the policies start panning out, rich
:35:01. > :35:07.people start leaving, tax revenues go down, then that will play out
:35:07. > :35:13.badly. If your man wins, you could win as well. London voted last time
:35:13. > :35:19.roughly the way France voted. So, you could be representing London
:35:19. > :35:23.and the other areas in the French Assembly. If he does win, who do
:35:23. > :35:33.you think will bring him to his senses more quickly? The bond
:35:33. > :35:36.
:35:37. > :35:44.markets or Angela Merkel? people, hopefully. I was very
:35:44. > :35:54.interested to read in the Economist today, this idea from the leaders,
:35:54. > :36:01.that the addition -- that leaders have to work together to promote
:36:01. > :36:05.growth. That is the message Mr Hollande would send to Angela
:36:05. > :36:10.Merkel and hopefully they would agree on a fat the markets have to
:36:10. > :36:14.be stabilised, to promote growth. Good luck with your dealings with
:36:14. > :36:18.Angela Merkel. Am I right in thinking the Nicolas
:36:18. > :36:24.Sarkozy campaign which at one stage but it clique around the events in
:36:24. > :36:31.Toulouse looked like it was having a head of steam. But that has
:36:31. > :36:38.petered out. What happened is all candidates have the same space on
:36:38. > :36:44.radio and TV. Nicolas Sarkozy is very good at fireworks. But he is
:36:44. > :36:51.not there anymore. Therefore, he is plummeting in the polls. So I am
:36:51. > :36:53.right. If you are right! The Now, over the course of the
:36:53. > :36:57.next couple of weeks we'll be interviewing all the candidates
:36:57. > :37:00.vying to become Mayor of London. Yesterday we spoke to the Green
:37:00. > :37:02.candidate Jenny Jones. Today, we speak to the BNP candidate. He's
:37:02. > :37:06.called Carlos Cortiglia. He's originally from Uruguay. We'll
:37:06. > :37:09.speak to him in a moment but, first, let's take a look at what he's
:37:09. > :37:14.offering. On transport: he wants to look at
:37:14. > :37:17.the possibility of abolishing the congestion charge.
:37:17. > :37:19.He's also offering free weekend travel on the Underground and
:37:19. > :37:23.trains. On crime: he wants to introduce
:37:24. > :37:27.minimum five-year prison sentences for knife crime.
:37:27. > :37:29.And he also opposes the use of water cannons on streets to cope
:37:29. > :37:35.with rioting. He's also promising there'll be no
:37:35. > :37:45.amnesties for illegal immigrants in the capital.
:37:45. > :37:46.
:37:46. > :37:50.Carlos Cortiglia joins us now. Welcome to the programme. In 2010,
:37:50. > :37:56.the BNP campaigned against, the immigrant invasion of our country.
:37:56. > :38:01.And you are part of that invasion? Precisely. The reason is, the BNP
:38:01. > :38:07.has to change. It wants to be a British National Party, has to stop
:38:07. > :38:13.talking about 1930s ideas, which are ridiculous, and I invite anyone
:38:13. > :38:16.who is a nationalist to watch the Battle of Britain, and to watch a
:38:16. > :38:26.very good series done by Thames Television about the history of the
:38:26. > :38:31.war. And to understand what British nationalism has to be about. It's
:38:31. > :38:35.his not a continuity of that, but to start thinking about what is in
:38:35. > :38:41.the best interests of Britain. are you saying you are not anti-
:38:41. > :38:46.immigrant any more? We talk about illegal immigration, that is the
:38:46. > :38:52.issue. People who are legally entitled, like me, to be in this
:38:52. > :38:59.country, are not the issue. But the BNP national conceit is to offer
:38:59. > :39:04.generous grants to those of foreign descent resident here, not illegal,
:39:04. > :39:08.who wished to leave permanently. they want to. How much will it take
:39:08. > :39:13.to send you back to Uruguay? A bid people want to make that choice,
:39:13. > :39:19.they can. There is no argument that people who are legally entitled to
:39:19. > :39:24.be here have the right to be a participant. So if we had a whip-
:39:24. > :39:29.round to entice you to go back to Uruguay? You would have to raise a
:39:29. > :39:33.lot of money. I established by family in the UK. My three children
:39:33. > :39:38.are born in London. I have been here for almost a quarter of a
:39:38. > :39:46.century. The reason I came here is still valid. I love this country
:39:46. > :39:51.and I want to represent it and put an end to this chauvinism from
:39:51. > :40:01.1930s which is not the solution for Britain's problems. The fact is,
:40:01. > :40:03.
:40:03. > :40:06.immigration is your party's reason for being. People will find it
:40:06. > :40:10.strange that someone who is an immigrant, who has done well in
:40:10. > :40:13.this country, who is part of the reason why people think immigration
:40:13. > :40:19.overall has been rather a good thing for Britain, particularly for
:40:19. > :40:24.London, is representing a party that would send you back if it had
:40:24. > :40:27.half a chance. The problem in this country, it is a situation all
:40:27. > :40:34.political parties including the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats
:40:34. > :40:44.and Tories agree on, -- Labour, it is not a question of stopping
:40:44. > :40:49.people coming here. Countries, when they get people who can offer
:40:49. > :40:54.something, if you have a country like the UK that has no control
:40:54. > :40:59.over its borders because, basically, immigration policy has been
:40:59. > :41:05.influenced by being a member of the European Union, we have elected
:41:06. > :41:10.authorities, they should be running out immigration policy, not Europe.
:41:10. > :41:15.But your party, there is a sense that you are a front man for this
:41:15. > :41:21.party. Because you represented party, you don't say it yourself,
:41:21. > :41:27.that would stop all new immigration. That is not at all. For that is BNP
:41:27. > :41:34.policy, you would reject all asylum seekers. The issue of asylum
:41:34. > :41:38.seekers is about illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. We have a
:41:38. > :41:42.border a authority that just confessed they are not able to
:41:42. > :41:49.manage the number of people coming in. That is different from saying
:41:49. > :41:53.no more immigration. If we had that Lord today, you'll would not be
:41:53. > :41:59.allowed in -- you would not be allowed in. I would say that is not
:41:59. > :42:05.a policy of the BNP. It is their national policy. These islands off
:42:05. > :42:11.the coast of Argentina. What you call them? The Falkland Islands.
:42:11. > :42:17.Not the Malvinas Islands? In 1982, there was a dictator in Argentina.
:42:17. > :42:22.Argentina was going down the drain. Who did you support? I supported
:42:22. > :42:30.Britain. So this story that you tried to sign up for the
:42:30. > :42:35.Argentinian forces? That is not true? It is not true, I was working
:42:35. > :42:40.for the state education system, a teacher of mathematics that ear. I
:42:40. > :42:44.did not move away from Montevideo. I was studying the English language
:42:44. > :42:51.at the American Institute. I was studying journalism and I had
:42:51. > :42:56.nothing to do with it. Why is such a well educated person representing
:42:56. > :43:06.be BNP in this election? Because I do believe there is a need for
:43:06. > :43:06.
:43:06. > :43:13.change. Why did you join UKIP? would say to you, David Cameron
:43:13. > :43:20.said the BNP is a far-right party. I said jokingly, we are in the
:43:20. > :43:25.middle. The point is... If you listen to the French election,
:43:25. > :43:31.marine Le Pen, and Jean Luc Melenchon on the far left and right,
:43:31. > :43:35.they're saying quite a lot of the same thing. If no, they're not.
:43:35. > :43:39.Public services must be public services and one of our policies is
:43:39. > :43:45.to stop the automation of the underground and maintain the
:43:45. > :43:49.principle we need to protect public services. That is not a far right
:43:50. > :43:54.cried but a socialist principle. To protect public services and workers.
:43:54. > :44:00.The whatever you stand for isn't working, you are 1% in the polls.
:44:00. > :44:03.would say to you, the issue of percentages is not the issue. In
:44:03. > :44:09.British politics, it is participation. This is the first
:44:09. > :44:16.time I have had a chance to talk about politics. In all of the
:44:16. > :44:26.debates and hustings, including those organised by the BBC, and no
:44:26. > :44:28.
:44:28. > :44:37.BNP is represented. We have run out of time.
:44:37. > :44:39.Now, it's not just election time in London and France this spring. Oh
:44:39. > :44:43.no, they'll be casting ballots in Scotland, across England and in
:44:43. > :44:46.Wales too where there's good news and bad news for all four main
:44:46. > :44:50.political parties. Labour's on the comeback trail, the Tories are on a
:44:50. > :44:52.bit of a high, the Lib Dems have yet to face a major backlash as a
:44:52. > :44:56.result of the Coalition in Westminster and Plaid Cymru made
:44:56. > :45:02.gains at the local elections four years ago. So how might things pan
:45:02. > :45:12.Thompson to Barry Island, home of Gavin and Stacey, to see who'll be
:45:12. > :45:20.
:45:20. > :45:24.making the political weather in Barry, in the Vale of Glamorgan,
:45:24. > :45:28.home to Britain's hardiest holiday makers and to a certain TV sitcom.
:45:28. > :45:32.If you're not from Wales, Barry probably means Gavin and Stacey,
:45:32. > :45:35.but politically this place as more about it than that, because what
:45:35. > :45:39.happens in next month's local elections could give us a big clue
:45:39. > :45:45.to the fate of the four main political parties in Wales and
:45:45. > :45:48.beyond. So, what's occurring? At the moment there is a slim Tory
:45:48. > :45:52.majority on the council and the one Westminster seat here as well.
:45:52. > :45:55.Labour would like to take them both, and in general, Wales has been
:45:55. > :46:01.something of a success story for the David Cameron team. How have
:46:01. > :46:05.they done it and can they keep the area around Barry Blue? We have
:46:05. > :46:09.broadened the base and branded ourselves as a Welsh party, at the
:46:09. > :46:12.same time the other parties have moved to the left, so if you are a
:46:12. > :46:17.centre right Botha in Wales, the only party is the Conservative
:46:17. > :46:20.Party. But in Wales, lefties not necessarily a dirty word, and for
:46:20. > :46:25.Plaid Cymru it is the key to building on the gains made in the
:46:25. > :46:28.last set of local elections. We are to the left of Labour and that is a
:46:28. > :46:31.message if it is bought in practical terms about the
:46:31. > :46:34.difference it can make in the community can be positive, but we
:46:35. > :46:38.do know that we face a challenge because when people are fearful, as
:46:38. > :46:42.they are at the moment, the Labour Party says they have to vote Labour
:46:42. > :46:46.to keep the Tories out and that is a message we have to counteract.
:46:46. > :46:50.what about Labour? In the words of its former leader in Wales, the
:46:50. > :46:54.party to go belting in the 2008 local elections. Since then there
:46:54. > :46:59.has been a bit of a revival. But can Welsh Labour leader resurgence
:46:59. > :47:04.of the party across the UK? There is a message in that we are less
:47:04. > :47:08.associated with New Labour here. We have always been classic Labour,
:47:08. > :47:13.not all Labour, but classic Labour as distinct from New Labour. I
:47:13. > :47:15.think that has been a helpful message. If we can increase the
:47:15. > :47:20.number of Labour-controlled authorities, in particular the big
:47:20. > :47:25.ones like Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham, that would be a major
:47:25. > :47:31.advance and I think it would be a message for Labour, nationally.
:47:31. > :47:36.Funnily enough, they are almost the main Welsh cities the Labour Dems -
:47:36. > :47:40.- the Lib Dems are running. So can they avoid the mid-term blues this
:47:40. > :47:44.time round? We are fighting the election in different circumstances
:47:44. > :47:47.because of the power in Westminster, but it is clear that over the last
:47:47. > :47:51.three years the Liberal Democrat councils have kept council tax
:47:51. > :47:57.levels low and invested in schools and communities. There is no desire
:47:57. > :48:03.for people to go back to Labour-led councils. The air is fun for
:48:03. > :48:06.everyone in Barry, even on a day like this. And the main parties
:48:06. > :48:09.hope they will be making the political weather on 3rd May. And
:48:09. > :48:17.joining us from Cardiff to discuss all that, Vaughan Roderick, our
:48:17. > :48:20.Welsh Affairs Editor. Good to see you in the Welsh Assembly. Mark our
:48:20. > :48:26.card. As the results coming from Wales, what should we be looking
:48:26. > :48:29.out for? Results in Wales are notoriously difficult to predict
:48:29. > :48:34.because roughly a third of the councillors in Wales are
:48:34. > :48:38.independent and because many of the parties, at least three of the four,
:48:38. > :48:42.don't contest something like half of the wards. It is not a straight
:48:42. > :48:47.battle between the four parties anywhere apart from the capital
:48:47. > :48:51.city of Cardiff. This is the place you have to look at, the council's
:48:51. > :48:56.mention their like -- by Rhodri Morgan, Cardiff, Newport, Swansea,
:48:56. > :49:00.Wrexham, those are the ones fought by all the parties on party
:49:00. > :49:05.political terms. Outside of those four, you have a mixture of
:49:05. > :49:10.independence, at hoc groupings of small, local parties, which make it
:49:10. > :49:14.difficult to draw conclusions. But we will want to look as well at
:49:14. > :49:21.places that Labour should never have lost four years ago. The old
:49:21. > :49:24.seat of Merthyr, and Neil Kinnock's old stamping ground. Labour lost
:49:24. > :49:27.control of councils that covered those constituencies which they
:49:27. > :49:32.should never have done. If Labour do not get those back, it will be a
:49:32. > :49:36.very bad night for them. Now Labour are in opposition in Westminster
:49:36. > :49:40.they will be looking to make some gains again in Wales. The Tories, I
:49:40. > :49:43.assume, will try to hold what they have got because they are
:49:43. > :49:47.historically in a decent position there compared to before. But Plaid
:49:47. > :49:52.Cymru have a new leader. They have taken a bit of a hit in recent
:49:52. > :49:56.years. Are they on the way back, do we think? It is the first big test
:49:57. > :50:00.for Leanne Ward, the person who took over the leadership a few
:50:00. > :50:05.months ago. Plaid Cymru think if they do not do well they can say it
:50:05. > :50:11.is early days. But what may happen is that they will lose some seats
:50:11. > :50:17.in urban Wales but they could offset that by gaining seats in the
:50:17. > :50:20.rural areas from the independents. There does seem to be a gradual
:50:20. > :50:26.decline in independence in Wales which will help the Tories as well.
:50:26. > :50:30.When it comes to overall numbers we might see Labour going up but Plaid
:50:30. > :50:36.Cymru and the Tory stain in the same place for which seats being
:50:36. > :50:40.offset by gains elsewhere. For Roderick, thank you very much and
:50:40. > :50:45.we look forward to the results and a couple of weeks' time. Vital
:50:45. > :50:48.prescription drugs including those for breast cancer, heart disease,
:50:48. > :50:52.diabetes are not being stocked in chemists around the country which
:50:52. > :50:59.is leading to a dangerous short fall for patients who are having to
:50:59. > :51:04.wait up will weep, which could be a bit scary. So who is to blame? The
:51:04. > :51:11.manufacturers were not supply or the wholesalers selling drugs
:51:11. > :51:13.abroad? In the studio we have Huw Irranca - Davies MP who has been
:51:13. > :51:15.highlighting the problem and Samantha Ogden from The Association
:51:15. > :51:20.of the British Pharmacuetical Industry. So, what is the problem?
:51:20. > :51:23.The problem was illustrated by a constituent of mine who said to me
:51:23. > :51:27.that she had been into the chemist looking for her breast cancer drug
:51:27. > :51:30.treatment and was told she could not get it. The chemist had rung
:51:30. > :51:34.the wholesalers and the local chemist and was now ringing the
:51:34. > :51:39.manufacturers to get hold of this. She went for three days without it
:51:39. > :51:43.and then they manage to get hold of one package. She is there every
:51:43. > :51:49.fortnight asking for this. They know she's coming in. I was
:51:49. > :51:52.disbelieving, but I went and looked at it and with the help of the
:51:52. > :51:55.pharmacists organisations, what I have learnt is that this is a
:51:55. > :52:01.problem across the UK and patients are at risk of damage to their
:52:01. > :52:04.health. Who, in your view, is to blame? There is no one individual
:52:04. > :52:08.calls for one individual to blame. The industry, across the supply
:52:08. > :52:13.chain, has been doing a lot as a -- rectify this but evidence says it
:52:13. > :52:16.is getting worse. It was acknowledged under Andy Burnham but
:52:16. > :52:20.it has not been got to grips with. Some of the solutions are out there
:52:20. > :52:23.and we are trying to persuade the government to take it seriously
:52:23. > :52:28.because every debate we have in the Commons there is no acknowledgement
:52:28. > :52:31.of the severity of the problem. can I come to this? In Britain we
:52:31. > :52:35.are world leaders in pharmaceuticals. We are up there
:52:35. > :52:37.with the Americans and the Germans. We own some of the biggest
:52:37. > :52:41.pharmaceutical companies in the country and they are based here.
:52:41. > :52:47.You see one on the way to Heathrow when you get a plane. How can it
:52:47. > :52:49.happen in Britain? Pharmaceutical manufacturers supply medicines for
:52:49. > :52:55.patients and they also make an effort to go beyond that and stock
:52:55. > :52:59.anything between 50 and 30% more. The challenges that a small
:52:59. > :53:03.percentage of pharmacists to have a business that not only prescribes
:53:03. > :53:09.and dispenses prescriptions also trade medicines overseas for profit.
:53:09. > :53:12.So it is their fault? I think they are part of the problem, yes.
:53:12. > :53:18.you know they are doing that, should and should tell them to
:53:18. > :53:21.stop? You are still getting the money. If the money is not going --
:53:21. > :53:26.if the pills are not going to the people who need them, but you still
:53:26. > :53:33.get the money it is a win-win situation for you. The challenge is
:53:33. > :53:36.making sure the obligation to the patient. You're not doing that.
:53:36. > :53:42.There is no way the pharmaceutical companies can differentiate whether
:53:42. > :53:46.medicines are going, so in good faith they cannot say they are not
:53:46. > :53:53.supplying to someone. If you have a massive order and you know it is
:53:53. > :53:59.going abroad could you say you will not supply? Now, we don't know and
:53:59. > :54:05.we can do that. In some areas we are in full agreement with you. One
:54:05. > :54:13.of the issues is if you had the focus all away down you have to say
:54:13. > :54:16.you have enough patience stock first. But the first responsibility
:54:16. > :54:20.is that in most European countries they have a patient service
:54:20. > :54:24.obligation. It might not be the solution completely, but it says
:54:24. > :54:29.you have to maintain stocks or your own patients first. Are you to
:54:29. > :54:34.going to work together to stop this? Because it is quite scary,
:54:34. > :54:38.particularly if you are older, that you cannot get your drugs. You have
:54:38. > :54:41.chemists at the moment saying that they are spending as much a six up
:54:41. > :54:45.to eight hours a week instead of being on the counter helping people
:54:45. > :54:50.with complaints. Well, come back and talk to us. Thank you for
:54:50. > :54:54.coming in. So, MPs returned to Westminster this week after another
:54:54. > :54:58.holiday. They will soon be going on another. But I wonder if David
:54:58. > :55:05.Cameron wishes they hadn't bothered. Here is Giles with the Week in 60
:55:05. > :55:09.One month on, and the budget continues to dominate political
:55:09. > :55:13.debate. Ed and David were back in the thick of it with the Labour
:55:13. > :55:18.leader taking on the PM over the charity, caravan and taxes on the
:55:18. > :55:23.pasty. Even people in Downing Street are calling it a complete
:55:23. > :55:27.shambles budget. Labour failed to block the granny tax but only by a
:55:27. > :55:31.geriatric whisker. The backbench Tory did not improve David Cameron
:55:31. > :55:35.smooth with a question about whether real life was just like the
:55:35. > :55:39.Prime Minister? They are a few occasions when the gentlemen needs
:55:39. > :55:42.a sense of humour. The elsewhere Theresa May was tackling the Abu
:55:42. > :55:46.Qatada case ending up with us not knowing if she was coming or going
:55:46. > :55:51.or what day it was. There was a little more love in evidence from
:55:51. > :55:54.Chris Grayling who called on business and not so much too hard a
:55:54. > :55:59.holiday but higher one. And after all that, it looks like Ed Miliband
:55:59. > :56:09.is on the up after a poll in the Sun newspaper put Labour 13 points
:56:09. > :56:12.
:56:12. > :56:18.A 13 point Labour lead this morning, the sort of thing oppositions
:56:18. > :56:24.expect to have in the mid- term. This phrase of a complete shambles,
:56:24. > :56:29.although the more accurate term we cannot use, and a thing we did last
:56:29. > :56:33.night and got bleeped out, is it systemic? Will they get through
:56:34. > :56:37.this? There is a sense in Downing Street of panic. There is a sense
:56:37. > :56:42.that once this keeps going for a couple of weeks, everything gets
:56:42. > :56:46.seen through the same lens. It will be difficult to spin the Theresa
:56:46. > :56:49.May think positively, but if all the right-thinking newspapers were
:56:49. > :56:53.onside, they might have given her the benefit of the doubt and blamed
:56:53. > :56:56.the European Court, but to get scenes -- scene as they do not know
:56:56. > :57:03.what they are doing and once you get to that place, how can you
:57:03. > :57:06.convince people you are competent? So we could have a while to run.
:57:06. > :57:09.The MPs are going on holiday again and we are waiting for the Queen's
:57:09. > :57:12.Speech and there is nothing for us to write about. It builds up a head
:57:12. > :57:17.of steam. Until the Queen's speech comes, there is nothing they can do
:57:17. > :57:25.to get back the agenda. On Sunday night we get the results. The exit
:57:25. > :57:30.polls we get about 8pm. 8pm sharp. So, seven coquille. It is like
:57:30. > :57:34.religion. We are watching our TV screens at 8pm and the results come
:57:34. > :57:41.in. The exit polls are pretty reliable in France. They had been
:57:41. > :57:46.so far. Does Francoise Hollande come into this? They are made and
:57:46. > :57:50.tuck in the first round, it always has been, but could Sarkozy get
:57:50. > :57:56.some momentum by coming first in the first round? He could, but
:57:56. > :58:03.there are 10 candidates and Jean- Luc Melenchon, he might take a big
:58:03. > :58:07.chunk. But, obviously, the Melenchon voters will vote for
:58:07. > :58:13.Francoise Hollande in the second round. You have to be careful. We
:58:13. > :58:17.all hope for a surprise, but not that kind of surprise. Not like her
:58:17. > :58:20.father who got into the final round that time. We will leave it there
:58:20. > :58:25.and we will be watching on Sunday night. Good to see both. Good to
:58:25. > :58:29.see today and thank you to our guests. The 1pm news is starting on
:58:29. > :58:34.BBC One. And Joe and will be back with all the political news on
:58:34. > :58:39.Monday. I will be back on BBC One on Sunday with the Sunday Politics
:58:39. > :58:44.and I will be joined by the Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. It is at